In the beginning episode 6, Courtney Atkinson, we are back and it's nice to be back face to face with you once more. It's always good to be back on the goal case. You're looking a bit tight though Liam. Big, big weekend with your big 40th. That I missed. It was a massive weekend. It was a massive. To sum it up, The Hangover meets schoolies is probably the best way I can sum it up again. It's done nothing for my physical well being, but it was.
We talked a bit about it last week after I'd had a wedding down in Sydney. I'm really enjoying the balance that's in my life at the moment, although I will be tilting that balance away from alcohol for a little while now because it, it was a, it was a lot of fun. It was a long day, it was a late finish and I went for a run Monday morning and it's that's a hard run. What? What were you sweating out? It was it.
Was a mix and that was part of the problem too, is that I really, you know, they say don't mix your drinks or if you, you know, pick, pick your, your poison. I, I tried all the poisons. I was, I was going from seltzers to beers to some champagne and then a a friend of mine who works for a tequila company. You ever had you ever had coffee? Tequila. I I I have one rule when it comes to drinking and is that there's to avoid shots at all costs. Coffee. Tequila, Courtney.
Let me tell you, it's delicious. Terrible for the day after, but it is delicious. Well on the socials mate, you look like you guys were having an absolute ball and dancing away into the live pictures. And there was some residents down in Crumban who probably weren't too. Impressed. No what? I've gotta give a big shout out to my Crumban family. They were outstanding. My wife put up a message on the Facebook group and the the support was they're like, have a
great night. You know, some, some smart asses saying thanks, where was my invite? But it was it was widely supported. The the key thing was to invite your neighbours. Yep, invite your neighbours. So we had neighbours from across the road and next door neighbour, but it was great quickly. Can I just give a quick shout out off the top to Speaking of socials, I want to give a shout out to firstly to James Hopper, who's a big fan of the podcast early on. He's been going for his long
runs up in the rang. 100% seen him. Big supporter of the podcast. He passed the podcast on to a fellow by the name of Nick Snow. And this is what I wanted to share with you. He sent me a message saying absolutely loving the podcast. Big best podcast for years. Keep it up on telling everyone I know to subscribe. And I just wrote back and I said awesome to hear Nick. I've never met Nick. I said awesome to hear. How's your running going? I assumed he was a runner.
This is the message I want to share with you, he said, going well, thanks. I'm totally hooked. Exactly how you guys talk about it. Dropped 40 kilos with plenty to go but will crack 600 KS this year on Saturday. So presumably the week just gone. And before this year I couldn't do 600 metres around the block of the gym. How good? And that's what we're. Like that's, that's what it's about. We talk about people getting hooked on running. That's someone who is hooked on running.
And you know, health has probably benefited untold. He's probably added years back to his life. How good anyway? How good anyway? We love. We love getting love and but when it's something like that and it's a positive story, even better. Talking about positive stories, New world record, a new marathon world record in the female division over there in Chicago at 20956. Wow. Well. What do you think? Do you believe it? We're jumping straight in. We're not. We're not. We're not.
We're not. We're not dancing around it. Do you know what? From when I was competing, you know, at the Olympic Games and World Championships, at that level, you just could never even consider someone else was doping because soon as that got into your head, you're beaten. Archie, you ever think about it, you turn up on the line and you believe someone next to you is doping. How can you race them? So it's really hard to get rid
of that. But since I've been out of that, I'm a sceptic on a lot of things. And also, of course, what's happened over the past, you know, decade with, you know, certain, you know, I mean cycling and running. And at the moment, I think I read the other day, there's 120 Kenyans at the moment on doping bans. Yes. So it begs the question. But for the moment, let's leave the doping out of it. And just because we don't know,
that's the thing you don't know. I just want to like focus on just how bloody quick that is in terms of we, we had a big discussion about, you know, who was Australia's most best known runner, Steve, Mona Getty, Brett Robinson come into that conversation. And we, we, we were talking like 20 sevens and two, Oh, in this race, I saw only two American males beat the top female. First ever woman under 2 hours and 10 minutes. Do you do you believe? Until someone tells me otherwise and I am.
In the same way you say you're now a sceptic, I am now an optimist. I want to believe that the best of the best in all sports are clean. Now I know that means I'm going to have my heart broken on occasion. I remember being in high school and seeing Marion Jones, the US sprinter. I loved Marion Jones. She was the poster woman for athletics then, and when it came out that she'd been doping, it sucked. I hated it, and I don't think it ruined my love of sport, but it sucked, right?
I now look at what Ruth has done and I want to believe it because I want to believe that we as a species can keep getting faster. I love, like I love seeing what the fact that we've got men who've run under 2 hours now, whether assisted in specific environments, designs, not in a race format necessarily, but I'm like in Mona's era, we would never thought anyone was capable of running under 2 hours. It was insane.
And now you've got a a female athlete breaking 2 hours and 10 minutes for the marathon, almost lopping 2 minutes off the previous record. Yeah, and I think that's the key and that's what a lot of the discussions about is the percentage she, not just herself, but the women have dropped since Paula Radcliffe held the record at around 2:15, give or take, how much they've been able to drop that compared
to the men. And I even read today and I got down, I went down the rabbit hole a little bit and I was reading about, there's even a few people saying that maybe super shoes can suit women more than men. Really, You know, because it's, it's not just on the marathon. This has happened. We've seen this in the 10K and the 5K kind of percentage breakdowns as well. I don't know. I don't. I have no idea how. Half half thought out theory, which is a lot of my theories. We're all about theories.
It makes more sense that women have greater scope for improvement in all sports because historically men have been prioritised in sport funding and everything. And now as we talk about AFLW and NRLW and the women's cricket, we see it particularly in NRLW as you pay these women as professional athletes, we're seeing the physical changes in them. Now athletics is probably a bit different because I think women's athletics is probably
been on parity for a long time. This is why it's only 1/2 floor anyway. Anyway, look, I want to believe, and I'm going to believe until someone proves us. Either way, no matter which way you look at it, it's just absolutely crazy. You know, we're just talking. It's just 209. What? Does that breakdown to A per K pace? Oh God, is it sub three? Not quite. Not quite. Probably 311 or whereabouts the. The fact that I have never like kind of put that into my times
to work out that's. What's the What's the fastest marathon you ever run in a race? In An Iron Man, I think we went one in the 40s. 2:00 and 2:40, OK, yeah. Look, I'm never gonna predict times here, but the more we're talking about running, the more we're doing this podcast, the more excited I'm getting about what what it is gonna be. And I've been talking about marathons coming back from America last week. I've been, you know, looking at
some things and getting excited. I don't know what it will be yet. I'm not going to commit to anything just yet. But we, you know, next year we're committing to something. And the other significant thing I will say before we move on from this marathon world record, Nike takes the crown back because the previous record was held by. I'm not going to try Asefa. Let's say Asefa, I don't want to get her name wrong, but she was running in those those one use type Adidas shoes.
OK, as they're branded the Adidas Adi 0 Adios Pro Evo ones. Yeah, this most recent record Nike ever flies. And I also love that idea of the who's. Yeah, there's an athlete that's running them. But from a branding perspective, the shoe manufacturers must want that record to be held by someone in their shoes. Yeah. So Nike takes back the. Women's title Here's a question. Do you does that sway your judgement on what shoe you would go and pick? Would you? Would you?
Were you looking at some Adidas shoes? And yeah, no, but now I'm. Back. Now you're back. But now you're back on Nike. I saw. I would be more inclined to buy the alpha flies, put it that way. Talk about not really knowing what we talk about talking about and, and a bit of rumours. I'll, I'll jump straight into a bit of equipment. So there's rumours about a code name shoe called the Altar G and it's Nike actually going for an
illegal shoe. So there, you know this. 40 mil stack height is the rule of international running competitions. You can't. Pretend I don't. Because so stack height, so the the the height of the rubber. OK, so under the shoe, the base of the shoe cannot be more than 40 millimetres. SO4 centimetres. Is that 4 centimetres? Yeah, 4 centimetres, yeah. Thanks. And. That's not a strong. Point. Yeah, that's what we have.
Calculators so you can't have more than 40 mil OK in a stack height to break a world record, be in competition. I'm sure they're not checking the back of the marathon here at the Gold Coast, but in that is the rule. OK. But in training shoes, what some of the companies are doing, like I know Hoka or Hoka, however you want to pronounce it, they have a 48 millimetre shoe that you can train in. What does the? What does the increased stack height do?
Just more rubber, it's just softer, more rubber, more softer. So I don't know whether you, you know, that's it, it's probably personal preference whether it's better or not. But this shoe in particular, So it is the the images that have been leaked are from the secret shoe. That's the IG, the secret shoes. I'm now following them so we can get all of this gossip. That's the Instagram account, the secret shoe.
And I think it looks like, you know, people send in prototypes and things like that to kinda get it out to the public. So we don't know how for sure this is. But the interesting thing with this with for me was they've got their Zoom X foam. So like they're really nice foam in there. But there's a air, you know, like the old Air Jordans when you have the air pocket in the air bubble. OK, so there's air from the toe
to the heel. You can see on the side of the shoe, air right from the toe to the shoe. So you've got that thickness of the rubber plus an air pocket going right through the whole shoe, so. Is there a carbon plate? I don't think I we don't, it's a secret. It's a secret shoe. No one knows. But obviously some of their, you know, pro athletes may have been testing them or whatever and they've got a few photos and or this could be all full of complete crap, but. Oh geez, I hope it's not.
Interesting. I would want to try that shoe. I want to try that. Shoe I am already the the air bubble was such a yeah, it's iconic. Imagine in that in that would look you the Gold Coast marathon in 2025. If that shoe was available to be purchased would be unbelievable. You'd be I'm just imagining 1004 hour plus runners rolling around hopping over the line in air bubble shoes. Well, possibly hopping of their rolling ankles when they're that they're, you know, they're like
high heels nearly these. Days 48 mil. Geez, that's enormous. You think about 5 centimetres. Well, that one, that one's the Hoka. How do you pronounce Hoka Hoka? Hoka, however you feel, I think this added us. Yeah, exactly. The point is, we know what we're talking about here. I like that. The secret. True. I'm gonna have to jump on that Instagram account for sure. Oh, I like it. Sure, I like it. Hey, how's your week been 'cause you. You've been travelling.
You've been busy since we last spoke. Last time we spoke, you were in the US. You're at the Red Bulls High Performance Centre in Santa Monica. You're back. Back. What can you tell what happened after we last spoke? Yeah, we can get into that. We were just saying how quickly a week goes, right. It feels like last night I was sitting in the hotel there doing this. You know, committing to doing this podcast each week has made me like going to school.
You're kind of like suddenly, holy hell, gotta do my homework, gotta do my homework again, which we did have homework for this week, yes, But yes. So I had another few days after we chatted last week at the Red Bull High Performance Centre or the Athlete Performance Centre over there. The interesting thing was I showed the next day a picture of myself on a treadmill with the full apparatus and the VO2 mask on. And I had so many people asking me watch VO2. It's it's.
What is your VO2? I don't know, it wasn't avo 2 test that is put oxygen on and that was the joke of it all was that it was all show. Because my watch says mine's 57 so. Yeah, what? Well, the watch has got to be right. So what I did do was go in the the the next day that after we spoke and it was about I did a step test.
So I was more around looking at where my lactates lie, but looking at my trying to get myself to get to exhaustion running and then look at how my bio mechanics were reacting so that the problems I was having in that space. So around the room they have let's say like 1000 frames per second cameras, a heap of them just looking at you in a 360 model, right, Looking at what's what's working at different
speeds. What's interesting is we used a very similar step test to what I used to do at the Queensland Academy, a sport probably about a decade ago when I was training to race. And we would get our lactate levels off that and that would dictate what I'd go off and train at. So that hasn't changed that much. Well, it's changed a lot. That's the problem. It has changed a lot.
But interestingly it was very similar to what I would start a pre season at. So we'd go in and test pre season like when I'd come back after, you know, maybe 3 weeks off for holiday. Yeah, do our first Test, that's the baseline. And then as we went through the season, we'd do a number of these tests. And what you're trying to work out is if you think about it like a a curve where you start off at a very slow speed. Yeah. And work out what lactate you're
producing. Sure, If anything, your lactate to begin with, it might even be higher when you start, like start just first starting and then it might decrease a bit. But there's a point at a speed where there's a, a slight Inflexion where you, your lactate starts increasing. And that's kind of, they call it L1, that's around that first
point. And that's what I'm interested in. And then the second point once you're running up into higher speeds is where does the lactate, where does that curve suddenly go exponential? And that's the lactate threshold. And that's the lactate threshold. And that's the There's only one. I've heard of. That there is only one thing we're interested in, right, Right. And that's the lactate threshold, the VO2, from my understanding.
I mean, I could be wrong. I'm not a sports scientist, but like, it's a, it's a great guide when you're doing, you know, testing kids for what sport they're going to play or, you know, but it doesn't really tell you anything about what's going on. I've known plenty of insurance athletes with, you know, not great VO twos, but great efficiency who have gone on to great things. OK. All right. So it was a bit overall good experience.
You're glad you did it. Great experience, I'm motivated, I've got some data to work off, you know, I've got some strength and conditioning now. I'm not rocket science that I can work off the back of it and had another few great runs around LA Mate. Yeah, that some of those, some of those videos you're putting up, that look, the running around there looked fun. It looked cool.
It wasn't all all work. I I guess this is an appropriate forum for me to share my news that I think I'm basically a run influencer. You're right, because I've got to buy you a boom box or. No, although. I We did find it. I had plenty of people messaging me about that stupid run boom box. I do not want one, no. So I'm part of a run group back in Sydney. I guess I'm a kind of an exchange shooting of this run group. I'm not. I don't run with them regularly
anymore. But the run group has become a a sponsored run group now AG One Athletic Greens, yeah right, have partnered with this running group and what's. The running group. Runners in the dark. Runners in the dark. Runners in the dark, and they're a bunch of they. I'm the snail. I'm the snail mascot. That's how I refer to myself within this running group because I'm slow, right? But you've got you've got some marathon runners who run somewhere around 2 1/2. You got some.
So there's some quick they move. There's there's the the fastest fella is quick. They're putting together A-Team for the bond item Manly Ultra this weekend, yes, which they'll win. I reckon that they're they're A-Team. They had a qualifying race for it the other week or training run for the other week and their A team will probably win it it there. There's some really high end runners and there's a few plotters as well like me, But for the most part they're pretty
good runners. And yeah, the other day the big boss at AG one apparently saw them coming back from one of their runs, reached out and now they they they're partnering with a professional they're. Professional. We can call them professional. We're getting some kit, they're getting some kit made up. Now when I say they are getting some kit, I'm I say I'm running influence now because I'm still
on the WhatsApp group. And so when the message gets sent around, hey guys, what do we all think of this? I just say yes, and then when they say right, Oh well, we need your shirt sizes and I just give them my shirts. You're just going to get some freak it out of this. This is brilliant. So runners in the dark, Why Runners in the dark used to run in the dark. Run in the Dark says We started in the dark, so we would usually meet three times a week in Sydney, in Bondi with start at
5:00 AM and in Sydney that's. Dark. It's not like you're. I know, I know. Right. And so it was, it started much more socially and then it's kind of developed into AI. Don't want to say elite because it's not elite, but most runs Monday and Wednesday are probably sort of 11:50 KS usually run sort of around 445 pace. But then they also have what is called a fanging Friday. And that's the run session that the AG, the athletic greens boss
saw. And that's when some of these fellas put their foot down and you're talking about 1213 K down at sub 4 minute pace with heels in it like they put their foot down. There's a lot of running of the kind of the some of the city to surf. Yep, track and yeah, when these boys put their foot down, it's. Shirts on shirts. Oh. Well, it probably depends on the time of year, The time of year the cotton allergies would be coming out around this time of year. Yeah, they get.
I thought that might have just shirts off, might have the AG Yeah, go. Ahead, I mean, if you take the shirts off, there's less area to to that's true advertise that's true. So the shirts are going to start, but. May have been the opportunity. By proxy I'm now a a sponsored runner. OK. So you're now the professional in this in this duo. I guess, and I'd like to be treated as if. If we can, if that's OK, we can go forward, be great. What else would have what?
Are we, are we going to talk about the are we going to talk about this week's poll, This week's running poll? We are going to talk about this week's running poll. You put this one up on the Instagram which and the. Well, it's a, It's a question. It's. A poll. It's not a poll, exactly. And interesting answers too. Not exactly what I was expecting. I was kind of expecting the marathons we've been talking about, but we've got everything under the sun here from we've got the rotto.
Swim. So the question was if you could choose only one event in Australia to do, which would it be? And I guess because we didn't really specify. It can be any event. It was. It was just the one endurance event that in Australia you want to do. If you had one, one event you could do for the year. Most of them are running. I can see, I can see a few, a few people actually do now and here to spruke in their own
events, which is fine. So we've got the burly swim run day, great event, great event on the Australia Day. What else do we got in here? Actually, plenty of people spruke in my events as well, wanting. So they're wanting. One of the ones that came up a fair bit was Red Bull Trail heads. What's Red Bull trail heads? So Red Bull trailheads. I don't know. Yeah, so this one hasn't. It was a one off during COVID when obviously the borders were
shut. We, I had a, an idea where we took the idea of mountain bike enduro, which is, you know, you pretty much race the downhill trails and then cruise back up and you only take the time to the downhills trail. So very similar to if you were to do a like a rally car stage race. We thought let's do that for running, but we're going to go and run up the black trails and race down the nice flowy green and blue trails.
So it was only a 5K race, but most of the And we did it out here in number Bar Valley at a private mountain bike track. Yeah. And we had some of like the best 10K runners in Australia who were Queenslanders at the time come out. Remember seeing this now. Yeah, and they said literally, I didn't think it would be quite that hard, but most of them said there was one of the hardest things they've actually they've done and it was only 51K reps. You had some of the footy players come out.
Yes, we had the Suns out the lines out this. Is I remember this now? I remember seeing it. It was before I moved to the Gold Coast and I I reckon I knew I was moving here and I remember seeing some of the footy players posting about this event and I thought it looked awesome.
It was, it was great. We had a little bit of a problem because it rained the week before and you know, mountain bike trails, slippery mud and rain and but we put a few ropes in and kind of on the uphills and we worked it out. But you know, just a completely different way of looking at running and that's come in strong. The Corford Red Bull trail heads. I would say that is the number one. Really. Doesn't that, but OK, and So what? Obviously my audience. Do you read? Anything into that?
Do you do you read anything into I? I do. Yeah, I do read What do? You read into it. Crew love to do things at a different crew. Also love to run marathons and try and beat a personal best. But I think that's where you're seeing trail running and different kind of outdoor Y events really having, you know, their time because people are just wanting to get outdoors and do different stuff.
And I, I always like this event particularly because, you know, we know who the quickest runner, if I went down and ran them over a 5K along the beach, we know he's going to win. Yeah. I mean, the quickest run win.
This one kind of brought the trail runners and the road runners together and kind of gave the trail runners on the downhill sections and a bit of tech like a little bit of technical aspects to it, a chance against the really fast runners and they they loved it. I also think and that the other thing that says to me a little bit as well, and we've talked a bit about it on previous episodes about the experience
mattering as well. And we talked about the atmosphere at the start line for say City to Surf but and Noosa Triathlon, the experience and environment you get up there. But it also says to me and you, I guess you look at things like Tough Mudder, yes, and Spartan Race and those sort of things. Well, that's high rocks now. Right. And that's and that's what High Rocks is now.
And I think that as part of this running movement we're all experiencing now, people want to get out to an area or an environment that they wouldn't normally get out to most people for something like trailheads, most people would never take
themselves out running there. No, no. But when there's an organised event, and Tough Mudder is an example, there's most people that have done Tough Mudder over the years and I've done 1 and I would never have gone out did it when I was in Sydney. I would never have gone out to the section of Sydney in the hills where we did it.
But because there was an organised event and I was doing it with other people and I was being held accountable, it gave me an excuse to go and explore a part of Sydney that I would never previously. And you talk about trailheads like that, those roadrunners would never have taken themselves off to this mountain bike. Look at that. It was private property, so they
couldn't get there. But and you look at the people saying they want to do stuff like that or even some of those other kind of surprising events, it's like people want a want a reason to go somewhere they haven't or they wouldn't. And I think COVID, it has a lot to do in a positive, like as much as it was, you know, the time, let's not even talk about COVID, but it was, it had a real positive effect on people getting outdoors. Once you could get outdoors, it
had a real positive effect. So what we've seen since then is I think with the kind of inventor like people showing what they do on social media as well. Once you see someone, like, it's a bit different seeing a professional athlete up on the side of a mountain, which you, you know, you can trip and fall off the side. You know, I'm not talking about that.
But you're just seeing the everyday crew get out and hike, creating videos of themselves in places where generally people may have thought, my, I can't go there myself. I don't feel safe. But I've seen my mate there now. No stress. Let's go in. Like, I mean, I've seen you take your kids up to Springbrook. Yeah. Twin Falls. Twin Falls. So good, so good. And and. So prior to COVID, yeah. Because no, I know the tracks are there pretty well.
Prior to COVID, you would be lucky to have got, I reckon, 10 people go in there in a day, especially down into the, like, right into the warrior track, which is the 14K that have taken you around. Yeah. Like, one, people didn't know about it, and two, I wouldn't just even think about it. Now that place, you go up there and by 8:00 AM in the morning you can't get a park. It's and and to think now that this love, this is what these
are the exact sort of com. If people are listening to this and thinking, what are these two talking about? These are the sort of conversations that spot. That is why we started this podcast in the 1st place, because we start somewhere and then we end up here. I'm now thinking in my mind about like Mount Coothra up in
Brisbane, right? I don't know if there's a race through Mount. Coothra yeah, there is Brisbane Trail Ultra. But like there would be so many people that would have walked up Mount Coothra at one time or another, but would never think to run around Mount KUSA or through the trails just because they wouldn't know where to go, right? And which is perfectly normal
response. But if they if they can find out about these events, they'll do it and they'll commit to it with a friend and you like, for example, I think it's coming up might even be this weekend. But the cut. The cut, yes. Which is in the ring. Unique event. It's worth talking about. It's worth talking. About SO, and I'll correct me if I'm wrong because I might get it wrong, but basically the cut is something of a an ultra, an enduro race where you run a lap of this course. Velodrome.
Or, well, it's the criterium track around the velodrome. And I think you it it it's about 5 KS or 6K long. No. So I think and and again I'm not 100% across it, but I think it's like about one point 5K loops. I reckon it's longer than that. Well, you better do a quick Google on it for me, but I'm, I'm, I'm gonna go with It's about a 1.5 K loop. And what they do you, they'll let everyone run through that one point, 5K.
And when the last person comes across the line, then the they give you a little bit of time and then you go again. And at a certain point, which I've got a feeling maybe around that 7 or 10K mark, they start cutting people as they come across the line. And they just keep whittling that down until they get to close to 50K and then they have a Sprint with the last four people. You're right, you nailed it. So basically that's that's it.
So the way it's pitched is anyone with a heartbeat and a pair of running shoes should read on. The minimum distance is 10.5 K and the maximum distance is 50K. As long as you can run 1.5 K in less than 15 minutes, you'll be fine. If you can't, you'll get cut. And so, as you say, they start as a massive group. The event takes place over 1.5 kilometre course. The race stops at the end of every lap and we wait for everyone to cross the finish line.
There's a maximum time of 15 minutes for a lap. Once everyone is across the finish, we make any cuts, wait 20 seconds, line up again and restart the race. And so I love this race. I haven't done it, but I want to do it badly. I want to do it too. I I would. Be such an exciting thing to be
a part. Of it's a long day, I mean, doing it that way, it takes a long time to get through, you know, if you're getting up towards, you know, maybe the back end of it, the 30 to 50K mark, it's a because the way it's structured, it becomes a, you know, but I suppose there's people around, there's tense, you get to recover. I think they even give a 10 minute break to go going to the
tour. It's. A vibe and there's an atmosphere and that again, we talk about these events and, and it's not always about the distance or the location or the it's about the environment. And the best events are the ones that create the best environment around it all. Which is why we see events like City to Surf sell out like it does noose and now sells out the duck. Which is why Gold Coast Marathon is now selling out because the vibe around it is, I would
argue, unmatched. 100% and this one reminds me a little bit of, you know, the real Ultra stuff at the moment. They've got these backyard Ultra as they do right where they run AI think that's the six K loop or 6.5 K loop, and they do it on the hour. So you run around and you just keep going till you can't stop, right? That's for a certain type of person, not for me, I don't think I, but this cut is for me that this interests me.
The cut not going to be able to get get there and do it this weekend, but one year that's something definitely 1500 metres. Is a yeah, it's, it's AII. Just I'd like to spectate at it. I'd always, I'd, I'd like to go up and just watch it because particularly as you get to the pointy end and you know. You got to run it. Why wouldn't you? You wouldn't. Don't spectate. Get out there and run it. I'll try. Can I ask you some technical questions? Sure. We brought this up the other way.
Sure, and this was put to me by a friend who's a, who's a very good runner, but he's also he's sort of naturally a good runner. He's he's a little bit naive when it comes to the technical aspects of things. And we talked a bit about I've asked you previously about what floating in within a session because I've always seen it written on people's travellers and they're like, you know, 2K or two minute efforts float in between. I don't understand what float
means. If you understand that, I want you to explain, as in in the dumbest language possible for someone like me, what the value of specific running sessions are. OK. All right, the language will be the easy part for me.
The dumbest language possible. So because everyone if, unless they've got a run coach who's preparing these things for them, they would have he heard these types of runs or run sessions laid out for them or they might read them online, but they won't understand the value behind the sessions because I don't understand the value behind all these sessions. And I run a bit. Can we start with a long run? Because we all hear about the idea of a long run, a Sunday
long week. What what is the value of a long run and how should we be doing it? So this is me an experience of my experience, Sure, because there's every, we've talked about this with training, everyone's going to look at a different way. And when we talked about like periodization, I think you start thinking each week's got to look different. So there's no one long run that works necessarily before I take that question around the long run. He says he says, sitting up on the stage.
Before I take that question, I do feel like I'm being interviewed now. I think before we get into that, it's worth explaining what I think a balanced week should look like for the everyday runner for like. And veg let's. Go exactly the five figures and red. So what do you need within your week? And you're not, we're not talking about an Olympic runner doing, you know, 20 sessions
here. But what would I put into my week and touch on that would give me a rounded approach and give me the best chance of then actually, you know, improving week on week or to a certain thing and the 1st bases of that would be the long run. Right. So that's first and foremost. Well, that's the most important thing in the week. If we're building the rum, the the run pyramid, the old school run pyramid, it's your.
It's your. Think about the base, right, the big base and you know, there's rules of thumbs around how long that should be. It should be a 30 year distance, whatever sounds technically, whatever that is. The, the, the reason for the long run is it's endurance, not rocket science, OK, It's endurance.
What it's doing from a more, you'll say simplified version is building the capillaries and within the muscles to be able to carry the blood, oxygenate the blood and do all that, which then will help you run longer, simply more efficient and longer. But the big thing for me with the long run is it gives you the confidence to them when you go to the race to be able to finish it. The confidence when you go to the race to be able to get through it. It's like, it's like putting the
money in the bank. There's there's the dumbed down version of it. You're putting the money in the bank so you can get through the race. I love that the. Best way possible. Because that tells me I'm thinking about that. It's the fact that the biggest advantage of a long run is the mental benefit. It does stuff for your legs, it
does stuff for your lungs. But ultimately it's the mental strength that you gain out of a long run of going, oh, I can do a half marathon because I've run 1/2 marathon. I've done it and I can. Or I can do a 10K run because I did a 10K run the other weekend. And that's the most basic way to look at it. Time on legs. Can I stay on the legs as long as I need to do that race? Then look, you can there's progressions of how you can do a
long run. You can you can do a like like actually a progressive, progressive long run where you start off at a set pace and then you might have like a gold marathon pace by the end. So it's like a build through the long run. There's no reason, you know, if you want to, we're talking about these particular ways of running, but there's nothing to say you can't mix up these types of runs. Do a long run and at the back of it do some type of fart like intervals which is very
specific. But again, we're keeping it simple. OK, we're coming for the dumb people. So I talked about the week of what I'd put in the week. So the base is the long run, right? You'd hear a lot in a late kind of talk about 3 sessions a week, 3 intense sessions within a run week. I think that's probably too much for someone who's just running 4:00 to 5:00 or every day. OK. The reason being is you've got
to allow for recovery. And if you put a long run in there which is going to tax you, Yeah, trying to fit three other intense runs into that week and and you haven't got the volume to support that. Yeah, injuries. You didn't get injured. You're going to get injured and you're just going to be feeling like crap crap the whole time. So the two runs that I would I like is some type of, you know, speed run. Now you can do repetitions for that or you could do some type of fart leg for that.
I like the fart leg. What is explain fart leg and explain why it's good? So fart leg. I think Swedish for speed play is the actual proper definition. So speed play. So it's like the best way I'd be like suggest someone or like be able to, the way I approach Fart Lake is it's over your race pace for a set period of time and then coming back just under your own race pace for a set period
of time. And what that's doing is teaching your body to kind of like accumulate lactic acid, like more than what you'd be capable of continuing on for a long time and then bringing it back and recovering it, clearing it to be able to go again and again. For those playing along at home, Courtney was bang on. Fart leg is a Swedish term for speedplay. You nailed it. So it's like a. You're teaching your body to be able to buffer.
So go above and then come back and then the traditional form of fart lick the real like if you were to go out and do it properly, there is no set. You don't do it like repetition. So there's no set time. You could be running around the streets and with a group of you and you'd be just like, all right, we're going to go on. So like we're going to go hard until the 3rd lamppost. OK. I don't know how far that is. It could be 800, could be 1200,
it doesn't matter. And then we're going to back off until the next. It's great doing it with groups in this way if you want to have a bit of fun where it's nearly like one person decides the next thing they're going to do. So if you're in a park or you're around the street or whatever,
it's like, OK, we're on to #55. Is that sometimes you see those running groups do it and I know I've done it in football pre seasons before where it's like if you're doing a running session it's the old back person runs to the front. It's a similar concept. Yeah, similar concept. So that's So what? So that's what fart like is it's going above your race pace and then below your race pace. What? Why is it good for your running? Like we said, it's teaching you to run.
It's giving you, it's, it's buffering, it's helping you learn to buffer. So if you go a bit over your red line, you, it's teaching you to know your paces to be able to then come back, get a bit of recovery without completely blowing up. The other thing I really like fart like for from a pure race point of view is if you go out and run, you know, the Gen we, we kind of look at our, our watches or whatever and we're going to go out and we're going to run 10K. And my goal pace is this.
And I'm going to try and keep it consistent. I'm going to run a marathon and I need to run, you know, 4 minutes per K to do this time. But the real like the reality when you're in a race is that doesn't happen because you've got wind, you've got hills, you've got downhills, you've got people around you that you get, you know, you might get a bit competitive with the guy next year. Run a bit hard. So far licks great in teaching you just to know your body by feel a lot better.
And that's why I I personally particularly like doing it a lot more than let's say specific like speed sessions. So the two options I had you, you want to do some type of like speed tolerance during the week. It could be fart lick. It could be, you know, hill repetitions, which also gives you a little bit more, you know, health builds strength and then when you come back to the flakes.
Pay the bills. You always pay the bills, but you could do that in a way of doing intervals as well, or you can literally get on the track and be doing like hard intervals, which I mean, to me that just teaches you to have balls. You're going hard. We're talking real dumb down language here. So the fart leg teaches you how to race because it teaches you to be at that speed and come up and over. Whereas I think the track kind of work and the real high
intensity speed work. It hurts because you're going as hard as you can gives you that kind of real like I got, you know, I'm in a race and I've got to dig deep. I know I feel that pain. I know the pain because because when you're building that lactate, but then you're completely recovering so you can attack that again. At the highest intensity you can. So it's got a. It's got a similar effect, but a
little bit different. I love hearing you describe interval training as teaching you to have balls or teaching you to get a bit of, to get a bit of fire in your belly about running. Because I think for a lot of people of my level and below, there's a real fear about running faster because it's unknown.
And I think that's a part of it. And if you're at the point where you're ready to take on a A5K run or a 10K run or a half marathon or even a marathon, I know for me with the half marathon a couple of weeks back when I set, my Pi was scared about that running that pace. I was genuinely not scared in the sense of fearing from a lot, but nervous about how my body was going to handle running at that pace and that idea of the interval training being the proving ground mental.
Again. It's a bit like the long run really is that it's about fortifying your your brain and your mind and that the inner dialogue that happens when you're exercising, if you don't have the music drowning it out to say because your brain was it tells you to quit when your legs get tied in, the lactic builds up and you get you. It's the brain is the thing goes. You can just start walking now if you want. You can stop now. Like there's nothing but those
interval sessions. It sounds like as you're dumbing it down, it's like that's where you tune that or you make that noise in your head, get quiet. Well, it gives you the break to be able to reset to get in the pain again. You know what I mean? So like, so with the fart, like we talked about, or a long run or a, you know, where you're just running continuously, you get the pain and then you kind of got to fight it, right? You got to keep fighting it and
manage your pace. Whereas with speed work, you're getting that either really, you know, complete stop or slow jog or whatever it is. And that's your like reset to be able to then put yourself in the hurt box again. But there's also with the speed stuff, it's about giving you because you are going over speed, it's efficiency. You're teaching, you're, you're, you're teaching like through the running motion at that higher pace.
It's also just teaching you to run a little bit more efficiently than what you'd be doing when you're shuffling out there. So there's a few different purposes to it. And that's not even touching on the science behind, you know. But I don't want to touch on the science. I don't. I'm not going to understand the science. You're going to keep cutting me down on the science. I don't want to hear the science.
Well, look, you can explain the science if you want, but what hearing you talking about the intervals and stuff like that and felt like no speech. I genuinely, I want to go out and do one tomorrow. Like I'm genuinely, it's got me excited about, I'm not, I'm not going to, I've got a, I've got a slower run planned with a mate, but I, the runner in me, the competitor in me gets excited at that feeling because I know what that feeling's like after an interval session and it's
awesome. It's great. I think it's, I think you love running fast. I think it's a better feeling. I feel better after an interval session than I do after a long like I think that that the the runner's high run talks about. Endorphins and everything come up. Yeah, because you're at a higher intensity, the heart rate's being higher. And again, we've you've you're getting rest. So it's like you are hurting me coming back to the rest.
The reason though, I kind of, you know, you'll, you'll hear me. You can see what, what my favourite is and it's the fart leg. Especially as you're getting a bit older, the fart leg protects you a little bit as well. So you're still getting the speed, like we called it speed play with the fart leg. But because you're not completely stopping, it moderates the amount of speed you can go.
Whereas I think as you're getting a bit older too, if you're, you know, you haven't got good background or you haven't been at speed a lot, there's the chance you can just go to the track. You've been doing all this endurance stuff and then suddenly you're banging out a 400 metre flat out and you, you do, you do an injury right And then or you don't do it on the first Rep because you get to rest again, you get to go and you're actually running.
There's a more chance that you're running above what you should be, right? Whereas fart leg to me, because you're continuous, it just helps bring that pace back to a level where you know you can only go so hard because you've got to recover again while you're moving quick. Especially when you're in a group. Yeah, OK. I like. It so they're the two that's the basis. We've got the long run, we've got the fart leg or some type of
repetition session. And then the third kind of, so the second in more intense session I'd look at is some type of tempo run. So tempo runs, you might hear them as threshold runs. I mean, there's so many different terms out there for for different types of runs and whatever. And but this one's all about building tolerance. So it's building your tolerance to be able to run at a pace that is uncomfortable but not flat out. OK. So this one's teaching your body to build tolerance.
So it's kind of more, well, it's probably not even speed insurance. It's at the point it's under your anaerobic threshold. So it's at that point just before you go into that anaerobic zone where you're like literally gasping for air. So should. You be able to talk like by definite like. It should be difficult to talk. OK it. Should it should be, you should be able to say a few words. But you're not just yapping away here.
OK. And so because I've often heard tempo run talked about as like 1010 seconds slower than your race pace. Like if you're training up for a race and you're setting yourself a goal of, let's say you're setting yourself a goal to run four 30s for a 10K race, your tempo run, no, sorry, tempo run should be 10 seconds quicker than your race pace. Does that sound about right? This is. Or have we gone for?
Two and two in depths. Well, this is the this is the issue when you say to someone, what? What's my run? What's a run session? So my tempo run is exactly I I would go on feel and heart rate. So my tempo run, we just talked about my test I did over in this and I've done for years and years that L2 where that exponential lactate, where the lactate kicks are kicks are. Yeah, they'll pick up at this like a pinpoint a lactate. You could do that with a lactate monitor if you wanted to.
But you also have a corresponding heart rate. OK. And that heart rate's a good guy. It's a guide. It's not like that's has to be at that point. Yeah, it's a good guide as to where you should be. But I use the breathing thing. You want to be at the point where you're you can continue that. Some some people will look at it like, what's the pace you can hold for one hour? Right.
And then you go out and run that for like if you're just starting, it might be more 15 to 20 minutes or you may even break that down into kind of more longer reps. So you might do 3-8 minute reps or three, 6 minutes, whatever level you're at. My I would always like history for me, I'll always go around that 40 minute mark. So if I'd run 38 to 40 minutes and I'd be aiming for about 12 K. The reason for me that was the distance I did was my bread and butter.
My money came from running 10K off a bike, right? OK, so I wanted a little bit of bang, I wanted a little bit of buffer, so I'd go 12K. OK, that's it's look, the the tempo run is a funny one because I think that's probably a oh, a type of training session that a lot of your amateur athletes have heard about or read about. And if they again, if they don't have a try, a coach, they probably don't understand what it's. So I like that. You you're buffering that lactate so you can run at a
higher pace for longer. That's probably the most simple way to put it. You want to feel like if I put it into words of how you feel, doing that is you will be uncomfortable, but it's manageable and you should be able to say at least a couple of words to someone, but you can't be yapping away. This has been genuinely helpful. This has been for me again as someone who runs quite a bit, understanding the basis for these, the benefits of this different types of running sessions you can do.
I've kind of always gone of. My general approach is that any runs good for you? Any runs better than no run at. All any run is better than no. Run, and any run is better than no run at all. But actually getting a an understanding of this is what you. This is why you. This is what you can get out of a fart like this is what you can get out of an intervention.
Genuinely helpful. But that's a good like, you know, that's a rounded guide if you could get some like you want to, instead of going out and running every day, just an hour along the beach, you know, if you want to get some improvement, it's a way of just like a bit of a rounded approach of throwing a longer run one day than what you'd normally do. So then on the next day, recover, do a shorter run, do a recovery run padded with a bit of mileage, whatever.
And then the next day go out, warm up, throw in some fart lick and you're just mixing them up which is giving your body different stimulus. As long as you recover from that properly, you you won't know yourself. Because it's interesting, I have noticed that if you run influencers out there like proper are now starting to bring more than just their them running with their shirts off.
They're actually starting to say here's how I achieve my goals and there's interval sessions being referenced. There's far like being sessions being referenced and I just when we talked about run coaching the other week. But I just wonder as as this, this movement of running and fitness continues to grow and gather momentum in Australia and these run influences become more and more not relevant because they're already relevant, but more and more influential.
I wonder if that level of expertise that you've just dropped or that level of like information is going to get into the everyday runner. I wonder if we're going to hear more people understanding what fat like does for them and understanding what the benefit of the long run is as opposed to just going for one. Yeah. I mean, I love the fact you've kept me. We've kept it really simple because you know you'll hear things like Zone 2 and zones and there's so much information out
there. I think the the key takeaway of what we just talked about is if you are, if you don't have a run group, if you don't have a coach and you're there just running on your own, just mix up your runs. You will improve if you just mix up your runs, if you go out. It's not to say that if you go out and run every day an hour that you won't. If you can do that consistently over time, you will improve as
well. But this is, I would suggest there's even a more fun way is you know you're not doing the same thing every day. Mix it up. Find a hill. Run the hill a bunch of times. You know, down it, there's a few other things I've thought about when we were kind of doing the homework that you could throw in there. There's a thing called you'll hear strides and why do you do strides?
So like after a session or maybe you do a longer run or an easy run and at the back end of it you just do some really fast 50 metres, 100 metre run throughs. And is that like when you say strides, is that mean lengthening your stride? No, it just means, it just means going faster and holding really good form and then just walking back and recover. So it might even be like to help, you know, really open your
body up before a race as well. You go out and warm up, get the blood flowing and then you might run through say 3100 metre, not not flat out sprints, but just quicker pace and what you're going to do. I've been told that that's good for your heart rate too. Don't know how true this is. Well, if you've. Warmed up slowly, you're moving the blood around the body and you're slowly building up your
heart rate. But that might just perk your heart rate up. So when you go to start the race and you get the adrenaline, you've already shown your heart. Hey, we've just increased the beats before we go to run. What it also does and I would suggest well my the way I feel anyway, it's more for you, it's more neurally so it's more a neural kind of activation. What do you mean that as in easing it switches your brain on to running? Switches your body on, switches your legs on.
OK to a pace. OK alright, so you're jogging around to warm up and then you go. But you can also do that at the back end of runs. So when you've you say you've been running a a threshold or a longer fart like or something and you just want to at the end, make sure you really just activate and get your speed. Yeah, you can all in the more elite terms, it helps the back end of your race if you're in for a Sprint finish. OK, but it's just teaching your body to do that. But. I think so.
What's interesting listening to all this because I in my head, I'm thinking about me when I swim and I know that what and nooses at the time of recording, this is about a week and a half away from me and I'm going to, I've discussed it already. I'm not setting the world on fire at noon this year, but I'm really looking forward to doing the race anyway because it's a
great morning out. But what happens when I swim is that I find about 200 metres in or 400 metres in, I find that my heart rate gets up to a level where I I don't want. I don't have a panic attack, but I genuinely get a shortness of breath and have to mentally tell myself to calm down.
And I sometimes, whether it's because I'm not warming up well enough when I swim and whether I'm not actually doing the swim equivalents of what you're talking about there as far as strides and getting my body switched on neurally to swim, I don't know if that's true. Well, it's just how I feel so. Processing it because there's two I think it would be a bit to do with the warm up like it definitely if you warm up, probably it's going to help you, especially when you rush off in
the beginning of a race. The fact it's happening 400 metres into the race. There could also be a bit of anxiety in the swim mate, you know, around the boys And every time this, I think it's quite prevalent in triathlon swims and competitors don't train in an open water environment or don't train with people around them. So the only time they really get exposed to people kind of bashing them and being on top of
them is in a race. And that's, you know, that does get the heart rate up no matter if you're used to it or not used to it. But you definitely over time, if you train it can get better at it. How if you looked at, say, the Paris Olympics as an example in the triathlon and they'll swing in the scene, they would jump in. There's probably a time limit that they have to get out of the water before the race. But let's say 30 to 40 minutes before the race, they jump in
the water and they might swim. You know, it could even be 10 to 15 minutes for some of those athletes, just really cruisy. And then they'll come back to the start and they'll dive in and do, you know, three to four flat out sprints as hard as they can go. Yeah, two reasons. 1 is that what we talked about are getting the heart rate right up.
And the second one is that they're just practising what they got to do when they go off the start so that they've exposed that their arms to that level of pressure. And then you'll even get some come out of the water and use like rubber bands to do then some activation exercises on top
of that. So even though they're going into a 2 hour event or an hour 45 event or whatever it is, that'll be warming up for over an hour before that race on both the run, the bike, and then eventually the swim. What I will say is that I want to thank the organisers of the Noosa Triathlon for manning the new start procedure for swim that they have. What was that? Because in years gone by, it used to be even before the well, since it's been moved out of the canals into the ocean, it used
to be the wave start, right? Get in your wave, which is an age group thing and go. And then they introduce the concept of the time. So it's like if you think you're going to swim sub 20 minutes, if you think you're going to swim that swims under 25 minutes, thirty minutes, whatever it is. And then you go and see yourself based on time, which improved things, but it would still a packed start.
And again, for me, someone like me, the anxiety of that is, is intense because I don't do enough training in a group. I'll swim open water, but I don't do it in a packs. So I'm not used to it. What they did last year for the first time was you went and seeded yourself based on your time. You thought you were going to swim and then they were sending off 4 at a time on five second
intervals. So you would go in the gate, you'd be in the row of four and it'd be beep and you'd run off and then they'd wait 5234, another four would go out. So it's constant rolling out of races and competitors. But what it does for someone like me is it means I'm, I'm heading out with four people and I can control that. I can pick a spot, I can go wide, I can swim to the edge. And if I swim past some people, fine. If some people swim past me, fine.
But for the most part, because we've seated based on time, I know I'm not going to have Courtney Atkinson and his mates swimming over the top of me or even the age group behind me. Because that's what would happen is I'd start off in the 35 to 40 year old age group and then they'd put the 24 year old to 30 year old age group. Behind me and they'd come straight over 7. 150 metres into the race and then all of a sudden a wave of people swim over me anyway.
So. But the point is I need to do more work on my swimming because I still get anxiety about 400 minutes. But we're not going to fix that in one week. We can't fix that before this year. That might be on the cards for next year. Yeah, it was. It's the same. I mean, bringing that back to running, I mean it's the same on any start line in a running event, you know, you have to get there early if you want to get
to the front. And then it's a case of, well, hey, if I'm gonna run a a three hour marathon, you know, should I have more right of being near the front of the line so I'm not getting impeded by the traffic than someone who's trying to run the five and a half hour marathon? You know, everyone's got the same, you know, right, to run, to run, yeah, and get a clean run and enjoy that event. But, you know, I've seen it. There's a lot of. No, you should. You should go and run where you
think you're gonna finish. It's the same. Part. So you think you should self seed? Absolutely. It's it's like I think we should self seed in life. I think we should, I think go get, let's go on step where. Where are you self seeding in life I. Don't know, but I just think like well, actually I do. Let me give you an example please, tall people right self seed yourself down the back of music gigs. That's. You're on the something.
Now yourself down the back so our short asses can see the gig. Or whatever it is anyway. I don't. Seriously. You just sit on your knees as well. They would just. Say I the we were talking, you're just talking about self seeding and it's. I. What did I'm just quickly racing through our run sheet because there was something that I've completely forgotten what it was. Now tie up your run sessions in a bow. It'll come back to me. Run sessions in a bow. So we can't we cover that.
I mean, crux of it is do some different things. I'll tell you what my favourite run of the week is. There you go. So when I'm fit, what is my favourite session? Because I talked about you don't have to just put these into like a box. It doesn't just have to be an interval session. It doesn't have to be just this. So my favourite run I do out in a ring. It's a 79K loop. And when I get fit, I use it as a bit of a test loop for me.
And I call it hilly fart like, but it's 79 kilometres of hilly fart. Like literally run up the first hill. And when I'm talking to hill, it's probably a good, you know, three hills that go up about 2K. And I use that as a bit of a warm up into it. And then I just start running the downhills relaxed or float. And then I like push the uphills to what I consider at the time being my threshold run or tempo pace over 17 K.
That gets really, really taxing. And that, so like I'm saying, it's fart lick, but it's not really fart lick in the traditional sense because I'm using hills and it's not really hills because it's a long run. But I find when I can run that really well, I can go off and race, you know, 1/2 marathon style. What would you say? Half marathon style, trail race? And I can be confident I'm going
to go well. Or I could go back to doing like some type of 10K race or some type of shorter multi distance race, multi discipline race, sorry. And go really well. And I know my time around there is my benchmark. Mix it all. Up. That's the other thing I'll say.
I reckon mix it up is a great takeaway, a nice way to finish it. The other thing I would say if you're starting out, wherever you are on your your running or excise journey, fine, Get yourself a benchmark, go and get yourself a benchmark and whatever it is, if it's a 5K, if it's a 1K, if it's a 10K, find yourself something that you benchmark. It's a park run is a perfect. Park Run is the ultimate benchmark, especially for beginner runners because it's 5K is a perfect distance.
You can run the same course every week. You've got competition to push you. They even time it for you for free. Exactly. Park run. Go and do a park run and figure out because it's a great way for you to keep yourself honest and we talk about PBS previously. It's the best way, not competing against other people, it's
competing against yourself. Go on, get yourself a park run benchmark and then if you're interested in how you're travelling, go back and do it. Doesn't we have to do it every week? We do sound by now like people are paying us to promote Park Run, but honestly it's just it's too good. I maintain I've thought more about my bold statement I made a couple of weeks back. I genuinely believe it won't be the greatest invention of the last 20 years and I'd like you to prove me wrong.
And you haven't yet? Funny enough, you talked about going to Yamba Park Run because of that, that the alphabet in the park run alphabet. I'm heading to Yamba this weekend so I might even tick off the why maybe, but. Are you gonna do it? Maybe go on, get down maybe. Maybe. I reckon you could take it out. Actually I think the winners when I was down there were running somewhere in the eighteens. Eighteens. Should be able to take you.
Should be able to take that out. I even clicked the under 3 minute K pace on the tremor last week for two minutes not too. Long, but yeah, the alphabet, The park run alphabet. Yeah, so we talked about because we were reading about this after we chatted about it because it got an interest Z, I'm not said I have XX because they said in their official there's no X. But Liam with his quick radio Google search, where are we
going for X? Zanti X We're going to Zanti X Zantippy. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly. Zantippy is a rural locality in WA, approximately 220 kilometres NE of Perth. It is the only place in Australia whose name starts with an X. So they don't have a park, they don't have a park run. But I think those people after the alphabet should be petitioning them to be, well,
have a park. Run. This is the reason they might not have a park run because in the 2016 census, the population In the 2016 census, the population was recorded as 20. That's 20 people who can run still. There's nine families that live in Zantipi. It's my start to. Explain it. Yeah, there you go. Anyway, well, that's us done in the beginning, episode 6. And thank you everybody. The the Spotify follower numbers are growing, which is great to see.
We want to keep sharing the love and we want to keep growing the audience. And the best way you can support us if you are listening is to leave a rating and, and share it with a mate. If you've got someone who's just beginning their running adventure or their fitness adventure, the I think today's app is by far the most informative we've delivered. Courtney, you brought your expertise to the table and I think there's genuine value in
it today, so thank you. And let us know what you want us what what you would like to hear us talk about. Let us know what you want to hear us talk. I do know that some of the shoe chat has been well received, so we might need to bring some more shoe chat to the table. I'd like the idea. We're going to keep our eyes peeled for this. What was this secret shoe? The secret shoe. 48 mil stack. She what? This a nickname? The whole the altar G. The altar G. This could be just complete.
It could be a. Sham, it's a rumour, but what I do have coming for you is a a shoe that's targeted at 3 hour marathon it. So we talk a lot about super shoes, but I've got a specific shoe that I'm going to bring you, Liam, and we'll talk more about that one. There's a hook I can't wait for next week. We'll see you then.