Episode 52 in the Beginning Podcasts Courtney Do we count this as our birthday? Do we count this as one year or or is next week one year? Oh, I don't know. Let's just say it's one year. I mean, we're gonna be for two weeks. We're on the way. So neither show is gonna be in person. But you know what it's we've got, let's just call it a year. It's been good. It's been good. Let's talk about it off straight off the top. I am in on the Gold Coast. You are where?
I am in now. Anyone who goes. I'm not a big bar. I'm in Bali, but I'm not a big. Let's just say I've been to Bali a lot. So I'm in Ubud. I'm up in the jungle, up in the up in the hills and it's not that warm to be honest. It's like it's been about 24. I was expecting it to be really warm up here, but I did a bit of yoga this morning. A little bit of yoga. Got any runs in?
I've been running on the treadmill here because I'm literally on the I'm on the side of a Cliff and I run out the front of the resort and it's straight uphill. I run, I run down. It's like a 2 1/2 K jogging loop, they said. But I've just been running. There's a good gym here on the Tremor. Had a few runs down on the beach when I first got here, but it's not great for running. Hey, it's busy, busy, busy.
There's that big, there's that big event in Bali the they do like they've run across the island or something. Yeah, really. I'll have to have a look into. It it's like an ultra anyway. Hey, can we kick it off today? Can we kick off? I want to talk to you about the World Athletics Championships, which is going on as we record, but also Sydney Marathon. It's not too far in the rearview mirror. I know we've got Melbourne on
the runway. I want to kick it off with a bit of marathon chat today because people I think will probably be tossing up those that might have missed out on Sydney will be looking to 2026 and trying to make the decision as to whether or not they want to run Sydney next year as a major. Now that it is. The ballot opens for Sydney on the 24th. So what's that?
Tuesday at 10:00 AM. Tuesday, the ballot will open for Sydney for next year's race and it closes on the 17th of October. So there's a little public announcement for the running crew here. But I received the email from TCS Sydney Marathon asking me if I want to go on the ballot. But it gives me, I like this and I want to put you to a little test here, Courtney. It says 7 days, seven reasons, one ballot. Your chance to run this TCS Sydney Marathon starts here.
Now they've given 7 reasons, 7 selling points. OK, so you're going to make me guess some. I want to see if you can get any. Before I guess some I want to know why didn't I get an email asking me to end of the ballot? I'm a subscriber. I I'm I'm shocking I need to unsubscribe to a lot of emails because I just get too many anyway. You're you're on the spam list. OK, fair enough fair enough. 7 reasons OK, like well the number one has to be because there's a
major. Boom reason #1 Abbott #2 Marathon Majors prestige where the newest name in the greatest marathon series be part of running history. That is reason #1 OK. So reason #1 the reason #2 would be to run in Sydney. I'm going to give it to you. Iconic land. Opera House. Opera. House Harbour Bridge and finish at the iconic Sydney Opera House, so you're 2 from 2:00. Well done. 2 from 2 OK #3 would be is Kip Chokey coming back? It doesn't mention any elites or anyone.
Else OK, so like that's my first strike. Fair enough. Oh my, I'm not actually struggling beyond that. What, what would be, what's the selling point? Is Sydney? Beyond that it's a major it's is it is it got to do with running weather? Perfect weather reason #5 on the list. Enjoy ideal running conditions made for your fastest, most comfortable run. Well, I'm going to call them on the fastest run. I'm going to call them on the Weather's better on the Gold Coast 100%. All right.
Oh, mate, here. Look, that's that's about. Weather have one more guess. Have one more guess. One more guess, OK. What we talk about What are some of the other things we talk about when talking about what makes running events great? The number of people where have they called out Running with 30,000 people global. Running Festival Share the course with athletes from over 100 countries, all united by one goal.
Yeah, that was in there as well. Elite and community spirit following the footsteps of marathon growth and soak up the support of an enthusiastic crowd post race celebration. Reward yourself with Sydney's renowned beaches, world class cuisines and local Australian coffee culture. And lastly, A souvenir like no other. Celebrate your achievement with a beautifully crafted medal that embodies the energy and memories of your time in Sydney.
When they're pulling out, the medal is something they're stretching. Now that's that's the other point I wanted to make. I I like what they're trying to do. I think they could have sold it better, like instead of sending me and as and this is the this is all a part of look, it's a major now. It's never going to have any drama selling out. So I don't I I would have simply sent a shit hot 62nd reel, 22 minute reel if you must saying don't miss it.
Like. You don't need to you don't need to give me a, a dot points like you're doing a presentation. Just send me a reel of Elliot Kipchoge of the Harbour Bridge, of the Opera House of the 10s, of thousands of and that and and just say don't miss it. Yeah, let's be realistic here. There's only two reasons and they were the first two reasons I said that has that gives that marathon any you know, I suppose step up on anything else you'd talk about.
I mean, you're going to a big city, you're going to run around major layer. I mean, that's the other one from an international point of view is that you come to Sydney. If you, if you're selling to an international as come and see Sydney, you come and see the Opera House, run around the Opera House and it's a world major. Other than that, I don't think they've got a leg up on any of the others in the country. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's a good point. It's a good point.
Anyway, for those of you that are thinking about Sydney, missed out on Sydney next year, that's a good heads up that the ballot will open. I think we said what is it looking at the data, So I beg your pardon. The ballot will open Wednesday. So the ballot will open on Wednesday. It'll close after 3-4 weeks. Put yourself in the ballot. You don't want to miss out Sydney Marathon, it'll be good. Yeah, I say, Liam, I hear the the new the road to Noosa series is get kicking along.
Well, there's been people reaching out, especially first timers. Again, it's interesting that it's come and said like we just, you know, we're learning stuff along the way and appreciate it. Don't get many call, don't get many mentions or many messages from, you know, too many of us suppose the upper elites, but we're going to be talking.
I know this is just a little bit of a like I put in it out there, we will be talking to some of the more elite athletes or the top end athletes towards the end of the series. So I'm sure everyone will get something out of all of that. But in the meantime, beyond that, last time we spoke on our Saturday, Yep, you were heading off to commentate the Suns verse Alliance, the the the finals of the AFL Q clash and we got an absolute toasting, didn't we? On the Gold Coast, yeah.
Look, if you're a Gold Coast Suns fan, B plus for the season. Season came to an end at the hands of Big Brother up the M1 and the Brisbane Lions. You know, to talk a little bit of footy for a moment, the Brisbane Lions showed the Gold Coast Suns what it takes to play finals football. The Fremantle game was the grand final for the Suns if you want to think about it that way. They made finals, they won a final. That's AB plus season. It won't satisfy the Sun's players.
It won't satisfy the Sun's coaches. It'll be satisfying from a broader perspective for the competition, for the club. But this is a club who wants to win premierships, who has a list that is capable of getting to premierships. But what the Lions showed them is that finals is a different sort of football. And Josh Dunkley and Cam Rayner in particular also showed perhaps where the Suns might need to make some improvements.
And that's from a pushing heavy tin in the gym type situation like Josh Dunkley and Cam Reina old school bullied the sun's mixture they. Really bust. Up on them in a big way again, they made they made finals, they won a final. I, I love finals football. For me, getting to call, commentate a game of finals football is a, is a privilege and and I never take it for granted despite the result. And everyone kind of said to me, oh, a bit of a disappointing game was it?
It was a final like, you know that. Was good. It was a good game. How did you call? How would how did you? How was your call? Did you rate your call? Well, You was A plus. I can never. What do we give you? I can never really objectively rate my own commentary. What I will say is that I got to
call for the first time. I I'm really lucky because I get to call most weeks alongside Simon Black, who has a, has a footy career, has a footy CV as good as anybody that's ever played the game 3 premierships, Brownlow's Norm Smith, best and fairest, all Australians. This bloke has done it all and remains one of the most humble, lovely blokes you'll ever make.
If you ever get a chance to spend any time with Simon Black, you'll, you'll love it. But I also for the first time got to call alongside Isaac Smith. And if you're, if you're a footy fan, you know exactly who Isaac Smith is. If you're not Isaac Smith, basically premierships at Hawthorn, premierships at Geelong. Norm Smith is is enormous. He has done just about everything in the game as well.
And again, one of the great blokes, just the sort of guy that you could sit down and whether you're on air in football commentary or not, you could sit alongside and talked to for hours. I mean, I am a football Nuffie. And so I probably just bothered him with questions about talk to me about Buddy Franklin, talk to me about Chris Scott, Alastair Clarkson. I want to hear about all of them. But yeah, he was, he was fond of
call with. And Jack Evan, who I got to commentate alongside, is a, is another guy I love commentating with because I think what my favourite people to work alongside with realise is that when the call wins, when the team wins, we all win. Like it's a team sport. Commentary is a team sport. So when when someone else calls the big moment, well, it's good for you, even if you weren't the person to specifically call the big moment. Yeah. So no, it was, it was, it was an
awesome experience. And, and look, I hope personally from a, from a personal perspective, I'd love to see a Brisbane Hawthorne Grand final. We got prelims to come and whatever, but I'd love to see the the Lions have to defend their premiership on grand final day. Well, that was my question. This the call who are you calling for the win this year can put you on the spot right now I'm. Going to back the Lions in. Let's get as long as it's a Queensland team, yeah, you're
happy. I'm happy over here. Yeah, now I'm going to back the Lions in. I think they showed that despite locking Neil not being there, they've they've got enough talent throughout that list. And and look, Josh Dunkley from mine is just one of the he's celebrated, but he's still under celebrated for how good he is and what he brings to to that Brisbane Lions team. But anyway. So from footy across to world champs, Yeah, let's talk world. Championships of of athletics
going on at the moment. Have you been watching much of it? Not a lot, not a lot as you knew when we were trying to work out how we could catch up for a chat this week. Liam, I've been, I'm away with four, four families on holidays. So you can imagine four families, 4 lots of kids, everyone wanting to do something different and it's just many. It's like it's actually busier and a bigger jigsaw puzzle than being at home. But no. So I've seen a little bit.
I saw, I mean, I saw Jess Hull, I haven't seen, haven't seen the result of the protest yet. Yet she has. She got through. Successful protest she's she's great Rosa didn't see it she fell in the in the 1st 200 metres of the 800. She was clicked from behind. She has been given the green light through to the semi finals so. Off the back of a / 1500 metre. Bronze medley in the 1500 metre again. Just how leading from the front for our track and field athletes. She is just such a star.
She's running so well at the moment. I love watching her run. She's great to watch. And Yep, she sounds like she sucked on a helium balloon when she does her interviews. But she is she's she's awesome to watch run. And quickly let's talk gout gout from Margaret because the hype train. This is a 17 year old kid who got through to the semifinals, finished fourth. So that's as far as he got in as far as getting to the final, he missed out. What did you make of that performance?
First world championship 17 years of age makes a semi final bearing in mind the amount of hype there has been. You know, literally as we're speaking, I've just opened up news.com not to actually know I've been following this, but I just wanted to get the Times right when we spoke about it. And media is so quick just to want to just knock someone down. Hey, I mean, fourth in the semi final in your first world champs
as a 17 year old ain't too bad. And you look at it this way like, yes, OK, there maybe have been this underlying expectation he would come out and blow the, you know, the doors off the world final. But the I think this is a great start. He's got to the semis. He, you know, he came home down that last straight strong again, like he raced, held his own. There is a reality. Let's be real, like the difference in times is significant. He's got a long he's got a long
way to go, right. And you look at hey, just one quick one too. Courtney Lindsay, third in that race, another male Courtney out there. So let's, let's get, let's get let's I loved because when I read that one, I was like, oh, here we go. I've got someone to back me up in this world as well. But you know, we're talking about half a second here nearly in difference in pace. It's a fair, it's a significant amount to the, you know, the top of this field.
So for me, can you talk to us a little bit about it as an elite athlete? I know you're not a sprinter, but that mindset of you were thrust onto the world stage as a teenager as well. How big? And again, I'm not asking you to compare sports 'cause you're not a sprinter, you're a different athlete.
But how can you talk a little bit about the those formative teenage years and, and kind of what you learned, let's say 18 through 22 or you know what you Gout, gout's going to be 19 next year or 18 next year by the time the Olympics roll around in. Sorry, let's jump forward. Imagine that we're going to the LA Games, which is what in 2028. So let's jump forward three years, Gout. Gout's going to be 20 years of age. What did you learn between what?
How did you change as an athlete from 18, when you kind of jumped onto the world stage as that best Aussie junior, to when you were 20 years of age? Oh, look, I'm not going to compare myself to what Gout's going through. It's a completely, you know, there's levels of sport. Let's just be completely transparent. I think there's levels of sport. I mean, if you were going through this and you were in, you've just been drafted into the NFL over in the States, you're on another level.
You know, it's track and field is the marquee or one of the blue ribbon events at the Olympic Games. You know, it's a major sport and there's a lot of eyes on it. Then let's just say you've got your professional sports that are that next level down where you're competing around the world. But really they're niche sports where only people who do those sports or invested in those sports follow. So I was always involved in one
of those sports. So you don't have those pressures, but you do when you come to an Olympic Games because suddenly the mainstream media starts looking at all sports, no matter whether you're, you know, I'm sure if we've got an Australian ping pong player who's going to nearly win a, you know, silver medal at the Olympics, the media will be on them as well. So you do have a weight on your
shoulders. I think with Gout, gout, what I've really liked to see since that race, but even prior to that race as he's just stayed, been able to stay really positive the whole time. I think he's got a pretty grounded understanding of what's going on at the moment and where he is. And I'd say behind the scenes to a degree I would, and this is me not knowing, but I think he's been able to tune a lot. Someone's on these, like someone's behind there being able to tell him to be able to
tune a lot of this noise out. And I think that's what he's going to have to do. But the pressure that comes with it cannot be understated. And I wouldn't have a clue of what pressure he's under in his position at the moment because it would be a unique position where, you know, we just talked about Jess Hull, right? She's the leader of the team. She is competing at a medal level and she has done that in prior Olympics as well. But the realism is the
Australian focus. The public focus at the moment is 100% on GAOK out and he's got to take that on his shoulders and I think he's done a great job. Yeah, for for context, for for people who again, for if you're not a, a die hard track and field follower, Jess Hull's 28 right. So and, and you, you hit your peak at different times and all the rest of it. But get get's got 11 years to mature into the athlete that
Jess Hull has become. You know, 11 years of learning, 11 years of training, 11 years of gaining experience competing in massive stadiums like the one they're competing in in. But he hasn't got 11 years, Liam. That's that is that unfortunately for Gout, that is the, the reality I think here is he hasn't got 11 years. I think the expectation is for those performances, not not this year, but I think the expectation is for those performances to come, you know, in the next few years.
That's my gut. That's, that's how I read it. That's how I read the situation and the and the, let's say the investment. Yeah, OK. The buy in the investment and everything else I think there needs to be I don't think you have 11 years to mature. I think we need, you know for for their expectation will be results within, you know the coming years. Is that a good? Is that a like? I don't know if that's good, but I don't know if that's a good.
Are you saying that expectations being, I can see it being put on there by media because media, this is what media does. They write sensationalist headlines to try and get people to read their stuff and stay on their site. So the advertiser's benefit, that's how it works. But are you saying that expectation is coming from sponsors? I'm saying it's a, it's a, it's 360. I think it's coming from from all sides. But I also don't think as a as a sprinter in his position, you can wait to 28.
I think there needs to be some really, you know, we, I think in the next few years and I believe he'll, he'll, he'll do it as well. But there'll be as you know, the strength comes. You know, there needs to be, you know, there is expectation around gout that, you know, we will see results in in the coming years. I mean, yes, 17, but then also there's nothing to say, you know, in the in early 20s. But look, we're actually having
a discussion. He's just got fourth in the semi final at the World Championships. The only reason we're talking about this in a, you know, and, and in no means in a negative way, but any other sprinter we've had in Australia, it's just because the, the expectation is so high of gout And we, we know what he can do and we believe what he can do. And we're sitting here going for, you know, that's the reality, right? There's kind of a little bit like it.
It wasn't the final, but he's just got fourth in his first senior World Championships as still a junior competitor. Like props where props are due. That's pretty solid. Not pretty solid. That's really solid. So for for context, to give everyone a bit of comparison, Usain Bolt, when he won the 100 and the 200 in Beijing was 22. When he set his world record, which still stands today at 9.58, he was 23. And then he kind of continued to dominate the sport through 2016 when he was 30.
So that's that's kind of an age bracket demographic for someone who's been gout. He's copying the comparisons along the way because of what he's the times he's posting. But when you're looking at development and that the time frame versus age and all the rest of that for performance against you saying he became the best in his sport at 22 and he was still the best in his sport at age 30. So we had an 8 year window in which he dominated and beyond.
Even just in this conversation, as I'm talking through it, my, I've even just changed my tune a whole lot from the beginning when I was looking at the times, yeah, you know, because I was going, oh, it's a it's a long way away, but you know, just the reality, like it's still a fourth in a semi final. He's in the mix of the best sprinters of the world already as a junior, as a 17 year old, like, yeah, I, it's I'm, I'm
just excited. And he's handled himself from everything I've seen, he's handled himself really well. So that's all that can be expected. Yeah, yeah, well said. Quickly, Here's a fun one just before we move on from GAT GAT, and we should say I don't want to under dismiss it. Tory Lewis's performance on the women's side of it, yes, equally impressive, also finished fourth in the 200 semi finals for on a women's sprinting side of things, really exciting World Championships for her because
she continues to grow. She's 2021 but she's on a similar, not probably with as much fanfare as gout, but certainly really exciting for women's sprinting and Australian sprinting. Courtney Atkinson What's the shortest distance you could beat Gout Gout over? Zero. No. No, no, the shortest distance. What, what? What do you mean? Like where? Where right at the moment? At what point do you? That's a good question. Beat Gout Gout At what distance do you Courtney beat Gout in a race?
I don't, I actually don't know what he's training. I, I have heard nothing about how he trains in the offseason. I've heard in the past around sprinters, there are some sprinters that train in repetition of hundreds over, you know, like maybe 10-1, hundreds on cycles just to get some type of base running or whether he is just pure Sprint performance. I'm going to take a stab at 800. What? Do you know what your best 400 was?
Do you have a rough time? Actually, I'm going to take, I'm going to, I'm going to step back and leave and say not 800 because I reckon he could go a 400 and then walk another 100, sorry, walk another 400 and still be ahead. I've I've got his 400 time from this season. Oh, his 400 is going to be quick. Yeah, but I'm just trying. What would your 400 be? When? Was the last time you ran a 400? I would break if I ran a 400 Liam at any. So Gout Gout's 400 time this season is a 4620.
It's just bloody. I, I haven't got it. I'd have to look it up. Can you? I'm tipping that's pretty good in Australia still. Like what's your what's your best K do you reckon? You're asking questions of a crap runner, Liam, at these distances. I'm. Asking you if you maxed out over 1 kilometre. Right at the moment I couldn't run a kilometre fast. I would break. So you're asking it's asking theoretical questions that I'm not I'm not willing to answer.
Courtney, this is a hypothetical exercise because honestly, I think from like if we want to do the same exercise for me. Let's do it for you, because you're not. Going to have to it's we're talking 10K before I even get close to gout because I don't know if he's if what endurance his base he's got. But that's, I say, let's not ask the questions of how quick you're running. Let's ask the question. The question then we should be asking is how far do you think Gout Gout can run?
Because at the point he can't run anymore and stops to walk. It's at that crossover point where we start to maybe be able to beat it. Because I think as a pure sprinter, yeah, there's a point where Gout Gout decides I don't run any further than this. Yeah, well, because they used to be used to your stories about Usain Bolt refusing to run 400 metres. This is where I'm going with it. I know. And that's why I said 800
initially. But then I thought he's a young guy, he might, he might come from that school of training where they do repetition one hundreds to build base in the early season. So I'm not even going to try. And you know, I'm not going to get called out here, Liam. I'm going to put myself in positions that I am going to talk shit, and that's what we're talking. I'm gonna say Courtney Atkinson starts beating Gout after 1500 metres. 1500 might be a a more logical.
I reckon I don't. Think, I don't think Gout's gonna. Gout's gonna want to run much more than 1500. No. And look, this is the great thing about this is this race is never happening. It's not. So unless the art wants to saddle up and take you over 1500 metres, This is purely A hypothetical exercise. But I've been thinking about it a bit because you often, you know, watching these other athletic events and seeing the sprinters and seeing the speed that they run in.
And then when you start to extrapolate it and you think about the pace that these marathon runners now running it, it's it's not that dissimilar. Like, you know, you break down the 400, the marathon world record pace into 100 metre segments and I think they're running their hundreds in like 1314 seconds. Yeah. But this is very dissimilar because there's a 46 second 400.
Yeah, is very different to, yeah, I guess some of those, I suppose some of the distance runners come home, you know, they can come home in 50 to 50. I'm not going to like, I'm not a cross track close enough to be making these time calls. Well, let's let's talk about now the marathon at the World Championships, which for those that didn't see it, imagine you are there at the end of 42 kilometres and then you have to have a Sprint finish, which results in a photo.
That's how close the men's world championship race was. It was literally Germany's Amanal Petros and Felix Simbu of Tanzania were given the same time. It was a photo. It was a dip at the line after a
marathon. Crazy. Yeah, I mean crazy scenes. It looked, I saw, I didn't watch the race, but I've seen some of Tim Vincent say so the Aussies were in there, you know, they're up early and I've seen just looking at some of the photos of how drenched they look and how hot it must have been and how hard a race it must have been. She said. It was, it was a tough one. The times definitely weren't fast. But that's a world championship too, right?
It's about, it's about places. It's not about time. And I think that's it's always good watching the world champs because it isn't one of those marathons. It's a pure, you know, race for medals. And this was one of the best probably they've had when you get a finish like that. Can you, you've, you've raced and you've done a few things in Japan. What's what's the what's the running culture like there? Running culture. I mean, we've probably touched
on this a little bit. Running culture in Japan is like no other. When I spent, I mean, more recently back in my triathlon earlier days when I was racing for New Balance Japan. So, you know, I was up there, I was running for the teams, I was running for the, for the
organisation. I've been into the offices in Tokyo. You know, the fact that they actually had an international team to come in to race in Japan tells you a little bit about the scope of you know how big not just running, but triathlon sport was in in Japan. But these days, I mean, when you look at all the Echiden, you look at all of the collegiate or the college type systems of
running. But even if you just look at the pure base of like recreational running and what it means to Japanese. But then I also go back and what I love more than anything in Japan is the school based running. The fact that in every morning there is some type of structured system where running is a part of of running as a part of Japanese discipline. That's for how I'd like to put it like.
That. Yeah, it is part of, you know, there's a physical element to it, but there's also there's a mental element of getting out there exercising, but as part of a group. Even the drills are done part as a part of a group and it's teaching the right values as well as running. So here in Australia, I'd say we've got a great culture now of, you know, we're seeing lots of people getting out and running, we're seeing people getting out as groups and everything else.
But what I haven't seen in Australia is that translate to kids. We're still in a A phase in Australia where I'm seeing at least at a school level where kids are more likely to be given a choice whether they participate in a school cross country. OK, Then actually making structured running as part of like a structure or a discipline of or giving them the right tools to make, not just running because we don't expect everyone to continue to run for the rest of their life.
But I think it's a great way running is the, let's call it the base moderator that every single kid can get out and participating in some shape or form. And I would say here in Australia, from what I'm seeing at a base level, we're going the opposite way to that, rather than actually going the way of trying to encourage everyone to get out there and participate in that run. Can you say a bit more about going the opposite way?
What do you mean? Well, the opposite way, I mean, is, is like some of the school, younger schools I'm hearing, is instead of having cross, you know, a cross country where there's always been a place where every kid, it's one of those events that every kid gets on the start line together and runs across country. You can jog it. You can. Yeah, whatever else there's. Yeah, I'm hearing, you know, and not just hearing. I know this is happening at school, primary schools at the
moment. We're in a stage where they're giving kids an option. You can either go and go in the cross country race or we'll put on over here. Over here, you can go and you know, walk or participate in this other race when you start giving options for kids. And we want to, we started here comparing it to a Japanese system. Once you start giving kids an option, an easier option, and you're a young kid, you're going to take the easier option, you're going to join your.
So it's a culture where we're giving kids an option and they go and join their friends to take the easy option. And that's I'm going to say it right. It's not the right way to go. I've just had a bit of an issue with my microphone. I'm back on. You got me great. You're back on. Did you hear all that or you just chose not to listen? Did you choose not to listen to me, Liam? No, no, no, I heard it all and I totally agree.
And I love, I think that my favourite thing about what you just said then at the very beginning was the idea of running culture. And you're right, because the running culture here in Australia is it's the boom week. That's the reason we have this podcast is because you and I love running. We're seeing it grow, but it's interesting to note you don't see that level of development at the entry level, as it were, for under ages. So what does that mean for our running culture 20 years from
now? I mean, we can't predict. We can only hope that it starts to revert back to what it has been. Well, I also think they're two different things, like we're seeing a boom in that kind of, you know, let's say young 20 year olds getting in and driving a lot of this marathon and run clubs and everything else. So that doesn't have to be driven from running as a child
or as a younger kid. But we've had, and this isn't like, let's just not say this is all schools because I've, I hear of some great programmes in schools and I don't know the exact programme name for it. So sorry. But where they certain PE teachers have a vested interest in trying to get kids to be fit and be active. And they come down to the school in the morning, they do laps, they record it, they reward them.
There's challenges. And you know, these are, there's some great activities out there that drive not just running, but just physical availability and participation, participation. Yeah. However, I'm just going on the rant here that there is a slide at the moment in juniors at schools where when you give kids a choice, of course most children are going to want to go and join in with their friends and have fun and choose the easy option.
And sometimes it's not always the easy option that's the best for children. I like it. It is. That is food for thought, Courtney. Maybe you could become maybe. Here we go. Here's what here's. I'm always good for one of these every couple of episodes, Courtney. It is 1/2 thought out idea. Remember when Jamie Oliver revolutionised school dinners? He went on that big campaign, big crusade documentaries.
Made about it. Because he wanted to change the way school dinners were being done, he wanted to bring greater nutritional value into the schools in throughout the UK. Courtney Atkinson does this for running in schools. It's a campaign designed to get schools to work that little bit harder to make kids run. Oh, Liam, I, you know the thing. Liam, it's a great idea. I just got a feeling I might be a little bit too hard. Line to deal with the schools To
deal with the schools. Hold on, if the if the slide is going away, maybe hardline is what you need. Maybe it's not cuddles and warm feelings. Maybe it is a little bit a little bit less everybody gets a medal, a little bit more SAS Australia. Maybe that's the the you know, it's a redress the balance. And if if we care about running culture and the health and Wellness of our kids, maybe the hardline Atkinson is the way. I have a hard line. Yeah.
Bring it, bring it back. I'm all for it, Liam. Hey, while we're just talking about schools, because like, I know there is a lot of parents who listen to us as well and there's always two sides, but let's call out some great things that go on. One of the in Australia at the moment, up in North Queensland, cross country is what it was when, you know, 20-30 years ago. Cross country, still a major sport up around the Cairns area, down a bit South of Townsville.
And I don't know what it is. What is the difference between regional Australia and what the difference is between metro Australia. And there's whether they've just it's an easier access to the outdoors, whether it's kids are a little bit more free in the outdoors, I'm not sure. But cross country up there, parents still drive, you know, major distances. Schools really when the cross country primary school competitions up in that area, it's still a big thing. The kids love it, They
participate. And I, I love seeing that. I want to see a more of that in metro. That's the first thing. The second thing is there are some PE teachers out around the schools in in Australia, not just Queensland, who still do some amazing things with kids outside of just their normal PE classes, so they deserve a massive shout out because there's some really good ones around. Yeah, nice, nice, very nicely said. So can I talk about my running for a moment of? Course you can.
I need, I think I've been guilty of something you mentioned very, very early on in the podcast. Do you recall when you talked about your experience of having somebody run on your shoulder when you were going, you were going along the front of the surfers main beach area and somebody just you were going not on a temp or anything, you were just crying for a cruise and suddenly you found this bloke rolling on your shoulder. Last week I had plans to go out for a cruising 90 minute run
just out from my place. I was in my Adidas Boston 12. So a bit of the carbon rods are in there. So a. Bit racy a little racy A. Bit racy but wasn't planning on anything too dramatic. I was literally planning on rolling around at sort of five minute pace, went down to rolled out from my place, got down to sort of cool and gather area, jogged out on the one of the groynes there, the rock groynes and and took a little picture looking back. Beautiful spot and then started
heading for home. Now it was on the way back I noticed this fella who'd started running. I was probably 6-7 KS into my run when he'd started running just in front of me and then I'd gone out on the Rockwall, turned around and I saw he was there again and I was running, still rolling at about 5 minute pace. And then I sort of got up to him and he kind of speed up a bit and so I sort of went accelerated a little bit. Next thing you know, I've gone
past him. But suddenly I looked down and I'm running at about 4:40 fives and I thought I'm running a bit quicker here and I looked at my shoulder and he was still there and I thought I'll go a bit quicker again. And then suddenly I look down and I'm running four 30s and he's still on my shoulder. And then I was thought, well, this, this is destroying my plan for my 90 minute run. And I thought, bugger it, the next K was 404 pace.
And he's stuck. Still on my shoulder, the next Ki was running sub 4 pace still there and at that point I'm 13 1/2 KS into the run. Am I? And I just turned off down the sights because what am I doing? Why? Why am I racing an anonymous guy at at it? I think it was a, it was a it was about 6:30 on a Sunday night. I'm like what? Why am I having a a race an unplanned race with a stranger at 6:30 at night when I'm doing
sub 4 minute pace for no race? He just wanted to tap you on the shoulder to tell you your shoelace was undone and you didn't catch her. I but I always say the easiest one of that, I just stop for AI, stop for a drink, but then the problem occurs. They stop at a bubble up, but then the problem occurs, they slow down and then you run back up to them. You kind of have to face the same problem. No, but it was, it was actually I got. I had a really like again.
I got home and I hadn't, I think I ended up running for an hour, 5 S 25 minutes shorter than I'd planned, but I'd given myself a bit of a workout because I ran much quicker than I'd planned. And I got home and I had a big smile on my face and I was like my wife said to me, why are you smiling? I'm like, I just had a really fun run.
Like it was, it wasn't the run I planned, but it was still a really fun hour or so running around and in the end getting in, you know, we talk about kids and running and racing and it's still running's fun. Like racing people is fun even at 41 years of age. Racing Stranger along the the front the ocean way was really good fun for the three or four KS. Until it, until it wasn't. Yeah, until I was knackered. You know what? You know what is that your running?
Yeah. And basically since then I've been rolling, I've been recovering. I'm I'm running good. But I'm also, I will say this quickly, I am being very pragmatic about the fact that I'm hovering it around 50 KSA week at the moment and intentionally not increasing my load beyond that because I'm not doing the strength training. Courtney, I haven't been doing strength training and I know from previous experience this is
when I get injured. So I actually went in and spoke to some people at the gym on Friday and I am planning on getting into a new gym from next week because I want to up my load and start start running more. But I know if I do it without the strength training, that's when the calf injuries. Turn up again. Beautiful, beautiful. Well, I'm going to I mean running, running. I've been running around and not
much up here. Well being on holidays, just just ticking over to make sure I get back and keep everything in in tune. But what I did get up to before I left. Shout out to Ryan Kelso #1 fan. Great man. So I made a quick 10 hour trip drive. Don't mind a drive but made a trip down to Armadale and caught up with our with Ryan had. Brentwood fan in the podcast. Met met face to face, had a chat, found out a bit about him, picked up a motorbike while I was in town. That was amazing.
That was the reason reason down there are. Those that aren't following this is The Creator, the band that is bringing the Armadale Running Festival back to life in March next year. Yeah, with big plans. So we chatted about that too. So shout out to the Armadale running festival. What's going to go on Family friendly is what I'll say. That's the the main goal there. Make sure everyone comes in, comes in from, you know, around the different towns and you know, create a really good
family vibe there. But first time down in Armadale around a small town, what I think, didn't realise that it's so high. There's a lot of national parks on the road going in there. So I think it's a place that I could go and explore a a little bit more. There's definitely plenty of land. I can see why there'd be some good running up there. You're at a bit of elevation too.
So I think in the morning I drove down, I left the Gold Coast and it was, you know, it's just a normal morning, whatever it was, 20° or whatever. And I quickly just checked should I take a jumper or not -7 sorry -.7 down there. So under, yeah, freezing. And it was a cool morning in town. But what I wanted to say was, you know, when you haven't met someone, you know, we've, we've, we've obviously chatted from the beginning of early days in the
pod and everything else. Exactly what I expected. Exactly what I expected. Good Aussie bloke, you know, help, couldn't you know, he's obviously reached out to us a fair bit and couldn't be more helpful and just, you know, just wanting the best for everyone. So shout out Ryan. It was great to catch up. But what, what did happen Liam? And you missed out here. I saw you. You would have missed a FaceTime call. I think I did miss a FaceTime. Call while I was in, yeah.
So Ryan was nice enough to offer you face. Timing me. We've talked about you with a push bike. Ryan was. He's bloody nice enough to offer you a push bike for free, wasn't? And all you had to do was pick up the phone. Pick up the phone. Look, here's what I'll say about that, Ryan, thank you. But I'm not doing Noosa this year. So the bike, the bike is, is staying on the shelf in the garage at the moment. There's no need for me to get on a bike because I'm not competing at Noosa this year.
So, but look, look, it's I'm glad you got down to see Ryan and, and look for anybody out there that is around that Armadale area, Armadale running festival March next year. Get on board because it when I, I think when someone goes to the effort to create or to bring something like that back to life or, or to start it anew, you'll want to see the running community get around it and support it. And and then you get to tell people there you were there for
the first, first one ever. So big shout out to Ryan. Question for you Courtney Atkinson. Should I register for 100 mile race? Why not? So. But you know my answer to anything that you asked Liam, it'll be like, yeah, of course, go for it. So UTA in the Blue Mountains, UTA, Australia the. So you're talking 160 K 160. They are adding for the first time next year the Oh no, they did it this year. They did it this year. No, no, they did it this year
too. They. Did it this year so it's the second time and you know my mate Ed who I raced, Yep Red Bull defiance with I dragged him onto UTA 50. I have turned this bloke into a full blown endurance Nuffy who has now run UTA 100 and he sends me a text Tuesday of the week just gone saying with his registration that he is now registered for the UTA Mila for next year. It's a big step. It's a big step to go from 50 straight up to the 160.
Talk, talk you've. Got to treat it like an adventure though, Liam, here's me talking like, you know, just they do it every weekend, but. That's my kind of feeling about it, because initially on the surface, 100 miles, my brain goes no. And then I think back to how I felt doing the 50K, how I felt when I went on that trail run a couple of weeks ago with Rosie, how I felt when I did Defiance, how I felt when I've done any of these endurance challenges.
And like, you can never train yourself to run 160 kilometres, 100 miles, but you can train your body to get strong enough that you could survive it. Yeah. Oh well, you know, if you're going to run A100160. What's the difference? Well, there's a big difference. I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure there's, there's a lot of people going. There's a, there's a big difference, Liam. But what I'm saying is, yeah, if you're going to go, if you're going to go in, why not go all
in? I'm kind of thinking I might make some enquiries to. It's easy to say when you're sitting on the couch when you're sitting on the couch, isn't it? It's very easy to throw these ideas around when I'm sitting on sitting at home, yeah. You know, I'm talking about 160. So off the back of UTMB, obviously Ruth Croft and Tom Evans as the winners and they had they both have the same
coach who does a lot. You know, from my understanding, the coaching philosophy is the all of this uphill running. So they do, you know, compared to the normal running training for a marathon, they add in a like rocking.
So, you know, lifting weights, lift when I say lifting weights, carrying weight uphill and doing a lot of, you know, specific strength training to a course, getting those, you know, specific muscle groups ready for what they're going to encounter in the races, the train and all of that. Reading a little bit and hearing a little bit about that, just because I was interested after the race, the fact that both of them won and they both came from the same coach that that got my
interest straight away. So they're doing a little bit deep diving. I did nearly I did try of all things, half of my kind of reasoning. I'll go on a 10 hour drive or return drive to Armidale was I had plans to listen to the audio book uphill training by that coach. Now I got through about, I reckon I got through about 8 minutes trying to do this audio book on the on the car radio or on Spotify. Yeah, couldn't do it. Why?
What was what I. Can listen to podcasts until the chaos come home but tried to listen to an audio book really on this drive just no no way. So I just got a summary off Chat cheated. That was easier. But yeah I don't know why. Anyone out there who listens to audio books give me the reason. Like that was my first attempt and it didn't go well at all. Well, at all.
Base, it's interesting you mentioned that uphill training and uphill running and rocking because I think I've found if I do decide to sign up to this and obviously Narang is, is perfect training ground for this sort of stuff. I think I've found an alternative as well. And I know you know this place. Boomerang Farm. Yeah, yeah, I know, Boomerang. I went out to Boomerang Farm for the first time the other day. I For those that don't know it is it's sort of 10 minutes off the.
It's on the way that anyone who's in endurance, it's on the Gold Coast, it's on the way to Springbrook, it's on the right as you're heading out to Springbrook, you're on. Your way out to the waterfalls, it's on the right hand side there and it's sort of it's, it's this, it's an amazing little spot. It does, it's got incredible set up for weddings. It does 200 weddings a year. It's got a nine hole golf course and it's got these mountain bike
trails. It's a mountain bike park, which is why you and I've talked about it before, but I went out there for the first time the other day and I met the new big boss. It's got new owners and they're looking to revitalise it and, and, and sort of bring some new people to it and, and just grow awareness about it because I don't think a lot of people know about it unless you're a very keen mountain biker.
But the, the big boss of the joint of the joint, Luke took me for a drive on the ATV around the whole property and I got to see a lot of it. And it was funny though, because he was talking about the mountain biking and he said before I'd seen any of the tracks, he's like, yeah, it's pretty, pretty full on mountain biking. You know, we have, we sort of have 4:00 to 5:00 ambulance
visits every weekend. And, and then he started driving me around and I was looking at it and I'm, I said to him, I'm not a mountain biker and this looks far more advanced than anything I could even comprehend. But I was looking at it as a trail runner and thinking, oh, it's probably almost too steep to really trail run.
But as you talk about uphill running and rocking, it would be amazing for that if you threw on a pack that weighed anything and started grinding your way up the trails there. Yeah, yeah, it's an amazing place out out there, Liam. Like, I mean, well before the mountain bike trails existed, it was the golf course out there. You'd literally going to play with Kangaroos all day. Yeah, You know, you're a little bit off the coast, so it's a magic place to go.
But all that mountain bike area, it's it's pretty much shuttles. So like it's downhill mountain biking, dirt jumps. It's not really the place I hang out as far as that, but one of the Red Bull riders, Remy Morden, did a yeah. Like if you ever if anyone thinking what the hell are these two boys talking about, just Google Remy Morton Boomerang Farm and he did a they built a special line or like route down there for this one film piece and you'll get to see what it's
all about. Like, you know, massive big wooden wall rides and everything else. It's don't know about trail running out there. I reckon we could we definitely could do an event there. I don't know about a training location though. Yeah, I think it might get a bit tricky. Can we talk a little bit of shoe jargon for a moment? You want to talk a bit of gear? Yeah, for sure. What do you got? Shoes.
So Nike, there's this new thing that I've read about in Tempo Journal and obviously Tempo Journal is something of a Bible from an Australian running perspective. They do. I think they do a great job. I love reading their stuff and they have written about and obviously it's something they're invited to, but they've unveiled it. It's 9. Nike has a new road running framework called 9 Box.
Have you heard about this? I hadn't heard the name 9 box, but I know about, you know, obviously there's 33 variants of shoes 3 three different pillars. You know, they're, they're simplifying, simplifying how you choose your shoe and to what
preferences you have. Now, I like this because, and that's exactly what it is. It's a basically, if you think of a three by three grid, that's essentially what Nike's 9 box concept is. We'll get to it in a moment the the variance within it. But I like this from Nike because we've seen it. Nike probably isn't the shoe powerhouse from a running perspective that it was maybe
even 5-10 years ago. I think like don't get me wrong, Nike's doing fine, but you know, we've seen more and more the trend like it seems like Puma is the is one of the more elite top end race shoes these days, added as is far more prominent amongst the elites than than it perhaps might have been. We know ASICS dominates among the hobby joggers and and even on we're seeing more and more of So it's a I think the running market has become more open to trying new things than
previously would have been. But I like this from Nike because I think as the running community grows and and more and more people get into it, making the shoe buying experience more simplistic other than just saying go try something on you, you understand marketing and branding. It's the first. Yeah, 100%.
It's the first time it I've been asking for this for a long time and I've been in P and there's there's certain people within the industry, I'm not going to mention brands, but we've asked for this. I'm like, I've run not just for one brand over, you know, a 30 year period. I run for multiple brands. Even when you're in ground within those, sometimes it's difficult to know what shoe you need to be wearing or choosing or what that shoe model is for.
For each one. The more simplistic it is, the easier it is to be able to make choices. And I think sometimes we've got to a point where you don't only want one shoe choice. Yes. But when you've got to, it's like, it's, it's like, you know, all the CE OS are the biggest corporations when they say they, they turn up in the same uniform. Steve Jobs, you know, you Mark Zuckerberg turn up in the same uniform every day because of decision fatigue. Yep, shoes have become decision fatigue.
Yep. Any move to simplify that process is going to be welcome from me. I don't know if everyone's going to welcome, but for me, I'm 100% on board. Well, it's and, and again, this is probably it's, it's something that's existed in running for a long time at the elite level. Now that more and more people are doing it, this idea of a shoe quiver, you talk about what's out what your what's in your wardrobe at the moment. You talk about your quiver of shoes.
I am now as a hobby jogger, someone that has a quiver of shoes. It's like, you know, surfers don't just have one board. They have boards for big conditions, small conditions, messy conditions. Yeah, towing, there's a quiver of boards that they use. Golfers don't have one club, They have a bag full of clubs. Runners more and more now need to have a quiver of shoes.
And what Nike has done here is they've just gone well, just come by our quiver and look how we explain it in a really simplified, easy to understand manner so that you don't have to become an expert. You don't have to do a degree in in running science. You can just come and buy and like. And I love the language around it too. So they're 3 shoe models. You've got the Pegasus, which we know the famous shoe.
They describe that as run powered, electrify your run with the most responsive Pegasus ever. Now there's then 3 levels of foam within that shoe, so there's so. They build up, build up cushioning, right? Is that it throughout? That's right, they build up cushioning. So there's your your performance shoe, right. Then they have run bigger, which is the Vomero, which is maximum cushioning for even more comfort.
So that's that when you're going out on the run, longer runs, you're running your Vomero. And then they have the structure, which is run supported, supportive cushioning for help running, for help to help runners keep running. So it's that really simple. It's Big Bear, it's Papa bear, Mama bear, baby bear. It's the Goldilocks. Let's they should call it the Goldilocks box, not Nike, not Nike 9 box. They should call it Nike Goldilocks box, Papa bear, Mama bear, baby bear.
You're welcome, Nike Running. Yeah, well, the thing I've been running in the vomero, I've been doing a lot of my running in the Vomero. So the the the base Vomero and just recently and what's interesting is what's the, what you've got them there? What's the it's the vomero plus, right would be the next version and then goes to the vomero premium after that. Yep. So the vomero plus is gets really good. You know, everyone's raving about the plus and you know,
more cushioning. It's I've got a feeling it's full the foam the X foam zoom X versus the dual density foam which is being used in the bottom vomero. The three, the three tiers just so for people playing along at home, are Icon Plus and Premium. Oh, so they call the the, the Venero's the icon. OK, so I'm just calling it the base Venero. But what is interesting is, well, I'm happy enough with the cushioning in the Venero.
So I'm wary about as a, as a, you know, I'd, I would go and purchase these shoes to wear them as my kind of like jogger, as a, as a, you know, comforts you. I'm wary to go and buy the plus because I'm happy where I am. Yeah. But all the reviews and all the people I'm hearing talk about it now like the Plus is amazing. The Plus is amazing. It's even more plush. So this is where I'm saying, at what point do you just go
enough's enough? Like you, you find something you like and you kind of stick with it. If you go and start trialling too much. When you talk about quivers, a lot of the reason, you know, I've talked about my my Salomon quiver a fair bit in the past.
There's a big difference. And I think this is where when you're listening to people who are commercially sponsored by shoe brands or say someone who reviews shoes, so they may be getting supplied shoes by the companies, you've got to be a little bit careful when you're listening to that because I'm getting all of the shoes in the quiver to try because I need to
know what they all feel like. But if you're going out to purchase shoes on your own and you're paying for every, every choice you make, I think there's a very different decision you make. And your quiver doesn't need to be as big as 11 shoes. Like Andy talked about taking up to Cairns the other day, or like when I've shown my, you know, I've got literally, what is it AA3A3 by 4.
So I stick with a pretty much, if I can fit 12 shoes, I keep a rotation of 12 shoes in that garage on my 12 shoe rotation. So once one has to be removed for a new one to come in and that's that's it's too much, it's too much, it's too much. I like this. I like this though, and and again, look, if anybody is wants to learn a bit more about just Google Nike 9 box and you'll see, you know, the the marrow structure, Pegasus, the three shoes, you can learn a bit more.
You can do your own research on it and make your own decisions. But reading this story on Tempo Journal, Michael Austin, who is Nike Pacific's Eckin manager, which I think product expert, brand storyteller, whatever. After all that, despite the 9 box creation, despite creating this simplified system he's quoted in this about it really should be your personal comfort. So don't be, he says, not being influenced by what your running mate is wearing or what the latest influence on TikTok is
recommending. It really should be your personal comfort. So despite this innovation, despite this simplicity, despite this grid formation which pleases the human brain, it's still about what's best, what you feel most comfortable in. Yeah, And probably the best way to figure that out is still go to the shoe shop, right In the end, go to the shoe shop. Hey, Liam, before I just want to this, we call Stewart so big mentor of mine had a lot to do with my career. He passed away last week.
So I just wanted to, you know, touch on it like a guy. He was Miles Stewart's father, but also coach Miles to A to a world championship coach multiple World Championships. But when I was a young fella around, you know, this sport, I suppose turning myself from we talked earlier about gout, gout and what it then takes to move, you know, up into the, you know, next levels as a world junior champion. I suppose in in when I was training, Cole was the group I
then got coached. Well, Cole was my coach and the group I trained with to move me from that level of being a world junior champion to being, you know, Olympian world class, you know, winning multiple world, never a world senior world championship, but obviously, you know, multiple world championship style races or whatever.
And yeah, he was coaching. The thing I loved about coal, besides, you know, what he gave to the sport of triathlon was the fact that he was still in, you know, the most recent years coaching right up, doing what he loved right up to literally, you know, the day pass. So yeah, I just wanted to, you know, there'll be a lot of people who listen to this, especially as we're doing the Noosa episodes. You know, if there's anyone new tuning in.
Yeah. Just wanted to say, you know, rest in peace, Cole Stewart. Yeah, all said mate, all said Yep, absolutely. And thoughts with with Cole's family and and those closest to him as well because he's had an incredible impact on the sport of triathlon and other sports in Australia as well. So, yeah, yeah, well said, mate, Well said. And I think that's probably a fitting note to end today's episode on.
For those of you that might not have already jumped on board the Noosa Triathlon series, those are dropping every Wednesday. Again, if you've got somebody in your life that's thinking about triathlon that might be doing Noosa for the first time, please share the episodes. We're getting great response. And obviously Dan Atkins, what the expertise he's giving us week to week as we talk about triathlon is super exciting and
super engaging. Am I correct in saying that the episode that we'll be dropping this Wednesday is a special guest episode? Courtney Atkinson. I do believe the next Wednesday episode will be a special guest. Oh no, it's the bike. Is it the bike? I'm pretty sure it's a bike. OK, it's the bike. Liam, I'm on holidays. I can't. I can't keep up. Guess what guys? On Wednesday there's an in the beginning Road to Noosa Triathlon podcast dropping. Make sure you.
Do this one on that night, Leon going back to the pool. Go back to the pool, go back to the pool bar and we'll see you next week. See you next week.