EP 18 - IF IT'S FLOODED, FORGET IT!

In the beginning at 18. Courtney, we're back. No cricket talk today off the top. As great as it was last week to talk about young Sam Conses. Yep, we moved on from cricket. We're straight into running. Do you want to go straight into the summer of tennis? Should we talk about other summer sports? No. Well, I know Nick, Nick Curious is your favourite guy, but let's let's go straight to running

today. And it's one of my stories where I've been an idiot, you know, you know that saying where you say, what's the saying in Queensland? If it's flooded, forget it. Yeah, yeah. So I was running in the forest in the ring, and I wasn't going to tell this story because I was trying to keep it. Secret video we had a fair. Bit of rain but I didn't realise we had so much rain on the weekend.

So I had, I've got company, take one guy for a run and suddenly the next weekend eight people come out with me wanting to have a run. It was a great group. We did 2-2 hours, 15 in the forest, got down to the first Creek crossing at Kasarina where you know, a few different streams, let's call it. But the ring turns into rainforest when we get that much rain, waterfalls when we get that much rain. And I went to get across leading

the pack. I went to go across the the crossing that I know quite well and there's some sandstone blocks under, under it where the the Creek crosses. So, you know, you normally have pretty decent footing. Anyway, there's so much water, I couldn't actually tell where the trail was going. And as I stepped off, I must have missed the crossing and stepped off to the left of the trail. And literally there was nothing under me. And before I knew it, I was

getting swept down. No, swept down the Creek until I grabbed a tree. Now this is I'm, I'm, I'm joking because I mean, the worst that's gonna happen in there is you're gonna probably get raked over a couple of rocks and you know, you know, maybe hit worse could hit your head on a tree or something. So, you know, it's not the safest and sanest thing to be doing. I. Didn't know about this.

Yes, I've gone down. So then a mate of mine, Lynn's, he came down after me. Thank God he's a lifeguard, but he went too. And hey, it why I'm telling the story is, look, we weren't in any major danger. It was and it's not crazy out there, but it just reminded me, you know, when big events happen in flooding and that type of thing, and if you're in a river and it's like, you know, there's serious consequence to what would happen, you have no chance. I was hanging onto that tree

with my legs screaming behind. Me, it was that strong. That strong? Yeah, this. Once I hit the water there was no chance we were swimming and like even had a chance to swim back against this current. That's, I mean, it's terrifying because you are you an elite athlete and you, the blokes you're running with, as you say, lifeguards, elite athletes as well. I'm just imagining the average runner me out there and potentially solo like that would be terrifying.

If you were, if you were like if you would have went down there and kind of thought I go across here every week and just went in and that happened, it would scare the crap out of your number one. Gosh, look, I think you'd be fine. You'd. Probably be OK so. Then after that. So what did you do? Did you finish the run? Well, we got everyone across 'cause then I knew where the trail was and the Causeway was. But then we, yeah, we had a great day out there, you know, like rain and and mud.

And that's part of being out on the trails and having and having fun. But I did change the course. I was gonna run them around a certain way. Yeah. And I thought, damn, if that crossing's full, the big crossing is gonna be dangerous. And if we get stuck on the other side, it means our two hour and a bit run will turn into a three and a half hour run too. So, you know, I took him a different way. We did go and visit the crossing and it was actually fine.

So yeah, I think we might have just caught it, you know, like it just added torrential downpour at that one time. But. It's. It's like they say if it's. Like it forget it applies to the to the applies to the trousers where as well as it does the

rows. Yeah, just quickly though, to kind of expand more broadly, I guess for your average runner, it's one thing to push on and persist with your running, your training, whatever it is in the face of, you know, maybe you're tired or you, maybe you haven't fuelled up or maybe you're busy. But there is still a line that it's OK not to cross, IE like I, I often think about what to give you the counterpoint, and this is not the extent of flooded trails.

I'm on pro hours now. My I've officially begun, this is on week one in the books for the new radio show Triple M Gold Breakfast with Lesel Jones, Lehman, Spider, everybody, TuneIn if you can. But I'm now, so I generally my work day kind of finishes around 10/30/11. And so now I don't have time to run in the mornings in the cool on the Gold Coast. And so after the first day of the show, I'm I'm committing to life as breakfast radio host.

But I don't want to get unfit or, you know, fall off my programme. So I went running. At at day. At I went for this run on Monday at 11:30 from along from Carawa Broadbeach up to The Spit or just show her Show her the Spit and then to Steaming Hot. Mate, you're going to get a great tan. Think you're brown. I think you're brown. You're going to be Queenslander. But the what? A life. What a life.

Again, I don't want to be seen to be complaining, but the idea of that, it's like at some point I'm going to have some days where I'm like, it's too hot, it's going to be too hot to run. And it's all well to acclimatise. But I think the average runners also got to understand, yeah, you got to get you get the case done. Don't make excuses. But if there's valid excuses, IE it's 35° plus or there's flooded trails, it's OK to pump the brakes. Yeah, a hundred, 100% it it.

There is some days where it is too hot to run in the middle of the day. You're gonna have to wait till at night time. But talking about like 'cause events at the moment, obviously what's happening in LA is an absolute, you know, isn't it? It's a disaster. But take, take, let's for the moment, just take the fires and what's happened out of it. If you were a runner in LA at the moment, or you wanted to, you know, try and exercise, I

think that's the line, isn't it? Because there'd be that much smoke around. That's yeah, it's, it couldn't be even probably down the coast away from LA at the moment. It couldn't be too good on the lungs. Well, I, I think there's been reports that these, because they, some of these buildings that have gone and homes that have gone are such old buildings, there's actually asbestos in some of them. So there's a genuine health

hazard to be had there. And again, if you go back, I'm, I'm running for health reasons, for fitness reasons. If you ran there at the moment, it's detrimental to your health and fitness. Yeah, yeah. There's no benefit. That's the line. That's the line to draw, right? And it's a very easy line to do. And a lot have you just, I mean, I'm not. And again, I'm sort of casually aware of what's going on in LA.

We've done a bit on the radio show this week, but from a 'cause you were over there earlier or late last year, mid to late last year and you went running through, it's, that's the area that's being affected. Completely coincidental. I was starting my trail runs at Pacific Palisades, at the National Park entrance at the top where the school is. Just complete coincidence. That's with and that's just sounds like it's where the epicentre of it is.

Yeah, sunset and crazy. And now most of that is just gone. It's can you picture as we talk about it now, can you picture in your mind that run? I can, but the one I mean I can it was because it's such I mean such beautiful, like it's a beautiful place to go and run. But what, what's, what's crazy to me is the fact that you see the houses on the beach and you the trying to get into your head that flames can jump that far and then take out the beach.

And what's also interesting, well, from a, from an Australian, obviously only having spent a really quick amount of time there, you know, when we have our big Bush fires here, it's, you know, through the gums and it's generally down, you know, South or even here on, you know, in Queensland, it'll RIP through a lot of like, you know, foliage and trees and it's big fuel. I I can't recall it's a lot of like desert shrub nearly up there.

I can't recall there being like so much big trees but. I read something about the the there are eucalypts over there that a a transplant tree because obviously there's not native to the air, but there were some eucalypts that might have added to the cause of it, but. It's it's, it's horrible to see so. But our thoughts are with anybody who's got family, friends or is there personally, you know, Correct. Yeah. Truly, truly. It is a genuine tragedy.

I think it might be the largest. It could end up becoming the largest natural disaster in the history of the US. Wow. So yeah, yeah, thoughts with them. But onto more positive I suppose things at the moment that's I've got this test, I'm going to call it a testimonial. If we're going to go for a job as in the beginning podcast hosts, Yeah, this is what I reckon I'd use OK, as our, you know, as an advocate for what we

do here. And it's summed up I I think this summed up when we started it what I thought we'd be to our listeners. So it is So Kane and Jacobs has sent this to us and he's gone G day blokes. So he started well. Works. Just wanted to let you go strictly. Identified agenda. Well done, Kane. Yeah, yeah. You couldn't tell from the voice. Yeah. OK. Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm bloody loving what you're doing with this new

podcast. I'm a long time country footballer, yeah, a long time country footballer who is obviously ready to keep fit. But putting you blokes in my ear is actually making me enjoy my running and wanting to make. And I want a better my running going forward. The big stand out to me is how real and honest you blokes are. You love a beer, a good time. You call out the flogs running for the wrong reasons and you relate to the novice and experienced runners having both of your outlooks.

F and love your work boys. If you can't, if you get an Australian testimonial more than that, that is. Have you got one of them for your radio show? No, Keenan, feel free to tune into the radio show, mate. I'd love that. Sort of. He has nailed it. He has actually nailed it. Because I think what he said then, I love the fact that he's a, he was a one time long time country football. Yes. That he, that he wasn't a, an athlete growing up as in the, in a track sense, he wasn't a

runner growing up specifically. He played football, right? And I think there's a lot of people because that's what I did. I, I played soccer through the year 12. I didn't actually start playing AFL as my sport till I was 16. And then I stopped playing AFL, I think probably when I was about 30. So I didn't actually take to running until I was 32, so I've only really been running for eight years. You're right. As as my chosen. Exercise your what I will do your priority exercise.

As my priority exercise running I've only been doing it 2016 was the year I I started doing it really and when oh this is really good fun I enjoy doing this let's go on that was the first time I ran the city to surf OK and. Oh, great event. With a, with a target, you know, with a like, I want to crack a time and all that sort of of stuff. And I got into it from there. So I think Keenan's clearly in a similar boat. Yep. Where football, amateur football

career is done. Yep. And I was only saying to Spider, who I do the radio show with, who's a 290 game AFL veteran. Yep. I asked him about how his body is held up because he is talking about doing the Kokoda Challenge later on this year. On the on the Gold Coast. Yeah, the 96 on the Gold Coast.

And he said I'm fine. And we talked about the fact that I'm really happy that I got out of my amateur footballing career that delivered me no money or glory whatever, and I can run because friends of mine can't. Like friends of mine running is off the. Table knees are gone. What knees? What's the main thing? Knees, ACLS, OK ACLS because and that's not to say if you suffer an ACL, you can't keep running.

The surgeries, as I understand that have improved significantly, but it generally it the cartilage wears away, you know, arthritis becomes an issue moving forward and it and it is much harder and there's swelling and obviously there's pain. So I'm really glad that I got out of my amateur footy career with running still as an. Option and he can still.

Run and Kanan clearly is the same thing, but you're right, I think he's now that and he's now that in a very you know what I know you'll like most about that. That could be a review for the Alpha Blokes podcast I Know, which is a podcast I know you love, and I reckon Keenan probably has hit the nail on the head there. Yeah, he has. That's good. Great. Thanks, Keenan. Welcome to the official testimonial giver of the in the

beginning process. Yeah. Well, as one of our probably one of four listen now it makes sense why we had cricket on the first bit of the show. Last week. That's right. Well done, Keenan. Thank you for the review. No, thank you. Quickly. I've got a bit of audio, but before you play it, have you seen quick pull back of the curtain for everybody?

Courtney and I, when we started running up here on the Gold Coast, we'd have these conversations and This is why we do this podcast now, because we'd come out the end of our runs and go, jeez, that was interesting. What we also talked about, and I don't know if you remember, but one of those Nerang Trail days, we talked about the idea of recording while running. Yes, we did. And we both you, you know, you'd experimented with it.

I'd actually, I'd actually done a run in Sydney once, I did the coast run Bondi to Coogee with a GoPro strapped to my chest and just to see what it looked like, you know, just as an experiment. And we talked about the idea of that and we sort of, you know, we just said, oh, look, it's probably a bit hard. And I remember, 'cause I was, I was thinking more serious audio, like I was thinking about how do we get mics on us to take the wind noise out and literally do what we're doing here.

But on the trails, when you're not thinking about what you're speaking, 'cause that's when, when you're not thinking about like show notes or whatever's going on, that's when the good stuff. Really. Comes out, however, we both decided that our breathing in between words was never. Going to work. Well, no, if we if we genuinely recorded an episode like that while running after the 10 minute mark, I wouldn't be

saying anything. It would be just Courtney telling stories and occasionally just go. Well, it's still a challenge. We can. We can. Actually do one actually. And, you know, bombs. It bombs. We should try one just as an experiment and go out and do it and see what people think. But the reason I bring it up is because if you go to YouTube, Sir Mo Farah, the English. Multiple Olympic gold medallist. Has started doing it.

He's now doing, I don't know if it's called Runs with MO or whatever it is, but essentially it's 2 episodes in I think and he takes, he has a little chat with his guest, then takes them for a mile, run chats along the way and then does more. Now it's very well edited and put together. It's almost like a mini TV show. But he's already done the famous Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger. Yep. And then he's done. Comedian Jimmy Carr. I did see a bit of the Jimmy Carr one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I think he was pushing, pushing him off, pushed him into the bushes or something. Pushed him in. Now what I'll say MO's a better runner than he is an interviewer. But I love it. I love that there's this piece of running content that is it's now it's crossing over into sort

of popular culture. Yeah, with one of the greatest runners we've ever seen now starting to bring in people like Jimmy Carr, this huge global comedian, and Arsene Wenger, this, you know, from a sports background, obviously. And did they talk about running or they're talking about? Yeah, they talk about running. So I haven't watched the Arsene Wenger one, but MO talks to Jimmy about do you run, did you

ever run? And you know, and what's if not, what sports do you do and all that, And talks to him about his career obviously as well. But yeah, I encourage everyone. To go and if. You're a runner who enjoys that sort of content. Go and check it out. It's worth. Look Sermo Farah is the channel on YouTube but this bit of audio for those that don't follow swimming and don't know who Dean Boxall is.

If you recall the Tokyo Olympics is where he made it famous where cheering on his one of his charges Ariana Titmus against Katie Ledecky. I think it was in the 200 metres free correct? He went full grabbed hold of an electric fence, blonde hair up in the air like Doc Brown from Back to the Future, shaking the. Well, shaking was an is a nice way to put it. I think he. Was assaulting the barricade at the swimming centre as Ariana went on to create history. And so that is who we're

talking. About you, you, you know, what reminds you, 'cause I remember this. I remember it so clear for a couple of reasons. The first one is, remember Lori Lawrence? He did it first with Duncan Armstrong, just, you know, typical, you know, that Aussie Larry can who just, he couldn't control himself in the grandstand. And then you see Dean doing this again, you know, would have been 20. Don't quite.

Yeah, years later. And it was just like the new Lori Lawrence, but he's on another level again. Right. Have you ever met Dean? I haven't well, this is going to get interesting because I, I obviously grew up swimming as well around SE Queensland, like as a, you know, 8, you know, 6-8 year old at a pretty, you know, I'd win national. You're an elite junior swimmer.

Yeah, I could swim all right. And now my memory serves me Dean. I would have had swam against him at points 'cause he was a young swimmer himself. But I can recall Dane winning the GPS 400 metres. OK if my memory's. Right. OK. So you like? The Fact Check. But he, yeah. And he won that. He was like a bloody, you know, probably on the borderline of Commonwealth Games standard. So you, your your paths have. We've we've crossed, but we probably don't. Know each other, know each

other, right? OK, Anyway, this is Dean Box who is now he as he said, He coaches Ariana Titmus, he coaches Molly O'Callaghan, he coaches the best swimmers Australia has to offer. This is him talking about a attitude he has towards training at the elite level. Here we go. I don't believe that you can rock up to the Olympics and rise to the occasion. I just do not believe that. I believe you're lower to your training standard. That means your default level has to improve, right?

So my training standard is very challenging for the guys to the point they have to be doing war record pace in training or they don't get a thumb. I love that. Then was he? You know, he doesn't give them a thumbs up unless they're literally breaking world records in training. What? What do you make of that? Love it. He's old school, he is old school. And what I make of it in swimming, when it's a Sprint

race, it's so true. So obviously when swimmers go into a taper to a major, they significantly drop time when they freshen up because swimmers just, well, the traditional way of swimming, they're just doing such volume that's so tired so often. And then they really know. And the Australians do it so well. And that's why we've been so successful so long in the pool is there's a system that know how to peek for the majors and get the best out of their athletes.

What Dean's saying here is if I can have them, like I'm just reading into this in my own way, hey, if I can have them doing world record pace in training while they're tired, I don't, you know, when they come out of their taper at the World champs or the Olympic Games, I know what's going to happen. I heard it and I kind of the reason I wanted to talk about it with you today is someone who's been in the Olympics, because I think as a as an average runner, sometimes we think it's that

it'll be all right on the night. Like if I get there, as long as I get there, I'll be able to find something on the day, even if I maybe haven't got there during my lead up to the race or the event, whatever it is I'm targeting. But I think even though you're not going to the Olympics, I now look at it and I hear what Dean's saying. There I go. Yeah, if you, if you've done it in training, it makes it you. It's like you've got the answers

to the test. But hang on, I'll let you, I'll let you go for a little bit there. I did say in swimming. OK, so. You don't think this supplies to running? No. Really, why not? Well, I'll put it in, put it, put it in simple terms. If you went and run 1/2 marathon, you know, you had marathon, half marathon, even a 10K and you went to training and you were trying to break your PB, how are you going to pull up? You'll be destroyed for weeks.

Swimming's different One, no gravity involved, you're in the pool so you don't have that muscle, you know, muscle breakdown when you're going that hard and two, it's short, so you're getting a right way with explosive, you know, it's like repetition of shorter reps if you go to running and you were trying to run out race distances at world record pace or or PB pace, it's. Gonna wreck.

It's gonna wreck you. But what you do do is you need to be able to show yourself that pace in simulated ways around, you know, whether it's repetitions. Yeah, simulated ways is in if you're doing a long run, there might be a certain component of that long run. Yeah. Where you're hitting those marathon paces or certain specific paces. But with running, I'm gonna disagree. We can't go out there. I can't. You would you? You will break.

I'm so easily persuaded because I've watched that reel from Dean Box and I'm like, OK, well, this is how I'm gonna try. You've now told me otherwise. I'm like, OK, I'm gonna try. And according to I've I am. I am I go with the wind well on a running and. Structure, look and and there may be people out there who are going well.

I completely disagree with that as well, but I can tell you if you just put it in the most simple terms, common sense, if you go out trying to do a marathon, if your marathon is your thing and you're going out to do a marathon or a half marathon in training at your race, you're wasting your legs. I love it. I love it. Well, this is that's perfect. Little segue there, because Speaking of marathons, I oh, I'm.

Sick of hearing I. Can't help I can't help but feel we are somewhat responsible for all this because since we started discussing it, marathon running in Crocs has become a thing. Courtney, like a really big thing, yes. So much so that an Adelaide bloke now has the world record. I think he's from Adelaide. Yeah, so I, I don't know where he's from, but he broke it in Hobart on the Hobart Marathon on the weekend and he's run 249. Dan Carmack is his name. Share that Dan.

Well done. Well done. I wonder if he ran in those bright. In the picture we were looking at, he did bright yellows. The bright yellow ones, yeah. So he was on the project earlier this week all. Right, got them in sports mode. Got them in sports. Do you reckon he runs like half a size too? Because there's sand all right? Do you reckon he runs half a size too small to make sure it's like got a good solid fit on? That. Well, interestingly, I watched the interview with him.

Have you seen the interview he did on the project? No, I don't know. He didn't actually train in them. Yeah, he basically put them on, checked that they he he put them on and ran at the pace he was going to for the marathon to check that they would not slip off and then just went about his training. So we didn't actually do a shoe check.

So he probably would not have had an idea of how he said his his legs were busted, but he said that he didn't really probably know how he was going to shape out post 10K because he hadn't really done any training in them. But what he did say and talking about Crocs and we've talked a bit about shoes on this is that they're actually pretty good to run in because from a firmness and a sponginess something it's kind of it's almost like a shoe. We've given this too much.

So I want to know, did Andy Buchanan get on the project when he broke the Australian marathon record? No, we didn't. Fastest ever marathon from Australian. Here we go. And here we go. We're talking about Crocs, which is partly our fault, but talking about Crocs, I got, I got this sent to me by a lot of people this week. I'm not mentioning it 'cause I there were. This came through from a lot of our listeners, obviously. Yeah, I got sent this one too, so let's get.

Rid of the Crocs, but let's stay on this train. So Kendall Lloyd sent me in from Thailand. Now this is legit because we talked about we were joking about Crocs and carbon plates. A company in Thailand called an I Run Knee run. Knee run. Has got the world's first super super carbon plate sandals. So they've put a carbon plate in a pair of sandals. And if you don't think this is legit, I don't know what marathon it is 'cause I can't read Thai.

But we've got a runner who has run a 21855 winning in these sandals. Now they look like a pair of thongs with the sports, the sports mode back from the Crocs, carbon plated. What do you reckon it's? Well, the I guess it probably not to go back to Croc man, but it, it might it, it goes on to show like, you know, fundamentally the I'm, you know, I'm sitting here a pair of Nike Pegasus and this, this is just foam rubber on the soles of these things. And that is what thongs and

Crocs are. They're foam and rubber in a variety. And as long as they're you know, the, the uppers on the elite speed shoes, the Super shoes these days, the alpha flowers or the meta speeds or whatever is nothing. They're only enclosed because probably traditionally that's what shoes have been. So if you're going to slip your toe in between the thongs like

and you're. Saying you're you're liking the innovation here, You know what you do need though, is obviously a pair of those Japanese socks to go with them because having that thong in the middle toes, yeah, you're not going to run too good in a paranormal. Socks. I feel weird those. Have you ever worn those? Feel they feel weird. These are going to feel awfully. Weird. Have you worn those toe socks? I've worn toe socks before. You tried them? Yeah. Of Australia.

Did you ever? Get caught up in the barefoot run phase. Those shoes that had, you know. I have worn a piece so you're thinking the brand which is their Vibram. Oh, that's Vibram. Vibram 5 fingers so I do know a bit about them. I do have a pair in the garage. Do you ever run in them? I did. I ran an event called Red Bull Dune Dusters in them, which was a 10K sand dune race at

Newcastle and all soft sand. Well, they weren't great because I just, you want to be in the soft sand, you want to run in bare feet if you can. I was concerned at the time 'cause I was doing other racing that running 10K hard in the soft sand would destroy my soles and my feet. Yeah. So I went and bought a pair of them, renting them. They're fine. I mean, I would go and running them on the road, yeah.

'Cause that that is, is that still that's it, That was a massive thing like, yeah, what, 10 years ago? I reckon I'm. Sure, I'll still have them in the garage when we finish up here. OK, I'll give you them and you can have a run and let us have a trot and think. You can tell us what you think about the old barefoot. 'Cause there were people who swore by that and there was 'cause I think.

Trends come and go. Do you know the biggest like thinking about different shoes that you know, innovation 'cause that's what we're talking about here in these sandals. Oh, now the, the brands just lost. I've just lost some brand. What was it? Newton? Have you ever heard of Newton? No run shoes? No. So Newton with this brand that came out, I'm going to guess so, you know, maybe about 10 to 15 years ago, prior to all of this, like prior to carbon plates, they had this kind of lug system

at the front of their shoe. So it looked like when you stepped on them, it looked like these three lines or like a nearly like a spring. I suppose 3 lines were protruding out of the bottom of the shoe and as you landed on the ground on your forefoot, they'd go up inside the shoe and then obviously give you a rebound power coming out. Your return. Now triathlon, as they always do, kind of got hold of this and went, you know, This Is Us and,

and and took them out. I've got a feeling Craig Alexander may have even won a World Ironman championship in Nuisance. OK, now I've had I had my fastest ever 10K triathlon run off the bike in a Para Newton as well. Actually, I actually had a Sprint finish in Korea with Yan Fredino and he took me down by a metre, but I was in a Para Newton. Really. Yeah, we run some 30 minutes in a para Newton I'm. Just having a look at them, I'm just Googling them. Here it is.

And they went, they they, they long, long gone. I don't know if carbon plates killed them or what killed them off. Actually, you'd be really interested to know why, why they got killed off. But on, so on, you know, on. Yeah. So when they were first, the clouds were just like, they've obviously lasted and they're booming at the moment. But it's the same type of scenario where when they began, it was innovation. So they had these true like air

pockets on clouds. And I can tell you from what I've heard, the first models were pretty, you know, unless you're being paid to wear them, they were pretty average. And they've now developed into, you know, from I haven't worn them, but what what I understand being some of the best shoes around. It's funny, these Newton shoes. I'm just having a look in the the three, the lugs you talk

about the kind of the springs. It it just made me remember the episode of The Simpsons where Homer designs the car. That's just the horrible waste of money car, ugly car. It feels like looking at these Newtons. I'm like, this feels like the refined idea of a child who went why don't we put springs on our shoes as a way to run faster? They worked. Yeah, they worked. I I'm too do this. I wonder if I've got a pair of them out there. Too. Wow, we are going. We're going, we're going shoe

shopping and. American Pickers through Courtney's Shoe Garage. I love it. But yeah, they they worked. And I know I remember definitely Craig Alexander for years, like he would have had some of his best Iron Man and half Iron Man racing in those Newton there. You go. There you go.

One last little one, while we're on these weird shoes, I did have Max Callahan sent us a message because we were talking about I wanted to know about slides and thongs, what's good for your feet, so I didn't have to trudge around in a pair of Birkenstocks. And he said office, office pluggers are a good brand. So Wolfos, Wolfos double OFOS. So if you're looking for a good pair of pluggers that have got a bit of support. OK, give them a try.

Yeah, let us know what you think 'cause I looked at them and and not you. Oh well, just by the look of them, I was kind of like, yeah, probably not. Still, I'm still looking for the replacement. Hardly a shout out for Wolfos. Nick, inhale we last week.

So we're just catching up on a couple of things that we talked about last week if you're listening and we were talking about obviously I'll put a reel out this week if you look at our Instagram about the days when you didn't have GPS watches. Yeah, you know, and that, do you really know how far you'd run when you were guessing the distance? I got AI, got a have you got any good messages? I got a message back on on that reel. And you know, we talked about Keenan at the start of the show.

Who gave you that testimonial? And as a former football player, I got a message back from Max Dudley. He's also a former footy player. He's played rugby league at a very good level. He I can't use the language he used, but he said if yeah, bring back the just run mentality. Just run. Just run. Just run. Just run. Yeah, good. So yeah, I love that reel though. It was. I got a few other comments just about the idea of.

Guessing and guessing. So off the back of that we're talking about there's a a run if you're on the Gold Coast or up in Brissy or whatever, they do a run out and rang around the trails where Steve from. Trail trips and events. Trial trips and events yeah, he he pretty much sets this up and they have a guessing game. So you run the goat loop or a

loop out there. I think it's about maybe 7 K and you know, later you, you obviously take your watch, but you're not watching it. He'll time it and you've got to guess how close you can go to your time. And then they have a winner on that. It is on the 27th of January. So that's what we're asking for. Can you go because I am still. Away. You won't be away, but I'm gonna try and get out there because it

is a look. And if you're not on the Gold Coast and you can't do the the Goat Loop race, this is something you can do yourself. I'll put in the show notes too that the the link to that if anyone's interested. This is something you could just go and set up. Go and map out a a 5K course. Go and map out a 2K course. No, but you're not meant to know that.

Oh, because yeah, you. And I'm just saying for other people and then see if you can run it to time as an alternative if you don't know if you want to set up a course for yourself. And if you can do that, then you can come and start laying shit back on me, OK? OK, yeah, then you can get stuck into Courtney. I like it. I like it. More loose ends from last week and from earlier episodes. Courtney.

Yeah. So this is the last one that I think we were talking about and I was being really open and honest here with you saying I just, I would really wonder how slow like if you're just standing out running and you, you know, you will, how slow's slow when you've got to run. So I said, you know, my pace is, you know, I'll run an easy run anywhere between 4 minutes to five minute kilometre pace. Someone else might find 5 minute kilometre pace like a racing

pace. How slow is slow and what should you start at now? Flow, pace, breathing. I don't know who the name is. Good day, fellas. Dual citizen back in the UK. So an Aussie living over in the UK now he's listed all these running school achievements so. Which is a joke from what if you haven't come right through the catalogue early on on the pod, Courtney talked about when we're talking about the idea of running coaches and who to trust, we joked about the idea of have they been to running

coach? School. Is there a running school? Is there a running? School, did you get a diploma? And he is. Apparently there is. Well, in UK Athletics, he's saying Level 1 is a jogger leader. You can you can take and and then you're insured as well. You get insurance for non track work. OK. And only over 18. So obviously no blue card in that one. I like that. So you're supervised by a level 1 coach. He's a Level 1 coach and that means he can train groups, individuals anyway.

So that's but so they do have. A run school? There's a legit system to this anyway, he said. Hope it helps here and this is he's not our information. He coaches beginners and easy pace for new runners are trained them to run at is fully nasal pace. What's nasal pace? Well, because it sounds like he. I'm going to take, I'm going to take a guess at it means you can run by only breathing through your nose.

And I guarantee everybody who's out there listening to this right now, if they're running or whatever, has just closed their mouth and just breathe in through their nose for a second. I've. Never really thought about it. Have you have? You pace. Have you ever? Sorry, Let's finish off on what flow pace. No, no, we'll come back to it because I I've got something off. Have you? Ever done? Because I hear people talk about Chris Wooley. Yep. Horrocks gun?

Yep. Who you've done some stuff with? He often when I see him post on his Instagram page, talks about nasal breathing. Yeah, right. With I don't know what. Look, whenever he starts doing it, I've tried it. I reckon I've tried it for about 400 metres once and I went, Nah, that's pretty hard and I've given up on it. But do you know much about it? No, OK, but what where I was going. So no, I don't know much about the the whole nasal breathing

thing. And I've had, I can recall over, you know, years and years of doing this, a few different methods. I suppose run coaches would use. One was, you know, breathe in your nose and then out your mouth. And that might be look, I'm not advocating that I whatever I how do you breathe? Well, look, I, I, I can't say I've actually thought about it lately, but one thing that I did, and it was when I was training up in Brisbane around Pat Klahesi's squad.

So I'm not sure who gave the advice, but there was something around, you know, to control your breathing, you know, breathing in and running four steps and then breathing out on the fourth step. So you're actually, you know, matching your breathing to your running cadence with not not a performance benefit here by any means. I'm not advocating that. I'm just saying it was a way to

try and control your breathing. If it was getting out of hand, which may be in in some effect, then controls the pace you're going and figures out if you can run, you know, four steps, breathe in, four steps, breathe out. Then you're running at a pace which is easy enough for you to get benefit. You're not overdoing it. Got you, got you, got you. I've got no expertise and all that. I don't follow breathing. So take it with a as a grain of salt.

Back to this is like how easy the easiest running with say coaches, beginners, an easy pace for them is nasal breathing as it pretty much equates to zone. Two. That's interesting. And they don't need a garment, etcetera, or have to know their pacing, their pace. He finds their pace of these new runners can be about 15 minutes per kilometre. Geez. Yep, now that is slow. So this is what this is what we're talking about. Like depending on what you're running as a beginner, what is the pace?

So he's saying they could be up to 15 minutes a kilometre. They do park runs in 45 minutes plus and they're going flat out. So to anybody who's out there right now listening and thinking I'm lugging along at 7 minutes per K, you're not slow for these people. These people were looking at a 10 minute PBA, 10 minute improvement on their PB to keep up with you. So don't be discouraged if you

think you're running slow. No, no, you've been a bit aggressive with these people, but they're not, they're these people, these nasal breathers, they're runners because of course they're getting out. So it could be, you know, you could be talking about, you know, an older male or female getting out in the 70s and just wanting to achieve a park run.

And that would be their pace. We're going to get a lot more information as we go through the year on this because I'm not going to, you know, I think this was great information, but it's not our information. But I thought it was interesting. We've got something there. You go give give If you're out running, just try and have another nasal breath for for see if you can do it for AK because it's it's a strange sensation. I'll let you report back on that with William. Yeah, you don't.

And, and talking about that, like what what if you you obviously started the new show? That's right. You got the new job going second day in. What else has been happening? Mate, I as I mentioned at the top pro hours training now for me hot I'm going to have to find ways to adapt to that because I'm not going to There's just days I'm not going to be able to run post sort of 11:00 AM just too hot. I actually the run I did go on, I did 13 KS and I reckon I was running at about 450 pace.

I was running and OK and I was hot but I felt really good. Actually the body feels quite good right now. 450 pace for me felt quite comfortable. So temperature aside, I wasn't gassed. It was, it was actually quite a nice run aside from the heat. But interestingly, last Saturday when I was out with my main Beach run group, Eddie Gordon, Friends of People You Know, Ree Crayon and Will Davidson, her husband, Viet supercar driver, Ree, part of Channel 7 supercar

coverage. Ree, famously from the Noosa Triathlon Celebrity Race Legends Race, had a crash on her bike. We talked about and talked to. How's she going? Is she all right? She's. She's back running, She's back on her bike. She's yeah, she's back. Smile on her face. You can't keep Ree down. But interestingly, we we're on our way back, we do a 10K run with this group.

And at the turn around point, as he said, right, I want you to go back at 7 out of 10 pace, OK. And I offhandedly kind of went, oh jeez, I don't know what my 7 out of 10 pace did. He pull out the RPE chart and this is. Well, RE without missing AB turned to me and said, Liam, you just did a whole episode about figuring out you 5 out of 10 pace. And I was like, Oh no, so I haven't. But it's interesting because it's easy to understand what your zero is.

It's easy to understand what your 10 is. And by that it's kind of easy to figure out what your 5 is. But figuring out that 6789 or 4321 conversely is, is an exercise in itself a bit. So I'm sort of figuring out where my 7 out of 10 pace is at the moment. Where it is I've lost that I was just trying to you. Posted it on the I know and it's the story last.

Week trying to find the chart because the funny one that came from from South Africa was all about you know, like I think the last the one was like 10. You're running from lie. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, you know, 10 is your, that is your running for your life. Yep. If 10 is running for your life. What's 7? And five is where you're comfortably you can cruise along. What's your 7? And I think I found out, I think I ended up running that last 5K

back I averaged. I probably ran at about 4:20 pace. Jesus. Moving, well, 42425 pace and I felt it's good pace because for yourself, for for me, reasonable. Yeah. And what Adsi said to me, I talk about because I said what's my 7 out of 10 pace and then re gave me a bollocking, which I thoroughly deserved. But Adsi, what he said was, well when you get back, don't be knackered, don't be exhausted, don't be cooked, don't be tired. And I got back and I'd run it and I'm like, I'm not tired.

So I think you did. You did right. So I think I did it right. You listen to the. Code that would make sense, but before we move on to your Fraser adventure, I do want to flag a dilemma I have in my running wardrobe at the moment. We love talking about equipment, we love talking in shoes. We've had some watch chat. You've talked a little bit about the danger of white T shirts in your running wardrobes because they end up going see through.

I love Nike, I've got a pair of Nike Pegasus on right now. But what I will say is Nike there's this. I've got 2 pairs of Nike running shorts which present me an enormous problem. I was running along the front the other day doing a pretty I was running at my 5 out of 10 pace Yep and felt good ticking along.

Was getting a lot of looks as I was running past I. Don't know if I want to. Know now I am not, the show's only just started, so I'm not so naive as to think I'm being recognised, but I did think there are. I'm getting more glimpses than I would normally. The shorts, these two pairs of shorts, they when you sweat it, it somehow funnels straight down to look like you pissed yourself. What colour are they? They're like an olive green. Well, this is your mistake from

the beginning. This is when you choose black in Queensland for everything but. That and that's I, I will never be able to run in anything other than black now because these these shorts I've been running in just look like I've, I just couldn't be bothered going to the toilet. I know it's I, I, I can visualise it now because I've seen it happen. I know, I know, I know the dilemma. Now I I blame myself as much as I'm having a go at Nike for it. I've I blame myself because they

were on the sale rack. I got them on the discount. That's why everyone probably knew what was wrong with them. But it's yeah, it's I'm I have to do a way out now. I probably only got 3 pairs of shorts I can run in because there's this pair and a blue pair that it just. OK, we need to get you a pair of black proper shorts. Let's nappy centre. Add that to the garage. Add that to the garage list on the way out because I think I've talked about how much like I am biassed.

I obviously run for Solomon, but the one thing that they do, I think amazing is their shorts. They're top of the range shorts, trail shorts with amazing. So let's see, we can. I've got what what? What's your? I'm a 32. How are? You I'm, I say I'm like 32 on a good day. Oh. Really. I am genuinely A32. No, I'm a 32. So I got a pair of I got a pair of bodies the other day and they only had a 33 left and I've worn them and. Then I hopefully should be able to sort that out on the way out

when and solve that problem. So in short, if you see me running along the front of the beaches down around Crum and of late, I haven't, I don't I don't have an incontinence problem. People can't be getting the toilets. It's the shorts. I swear, what's been going on and they. Don't know you're from the podcast, which is good. So that's a good thing. Like that's a good thing. Well, how was, how was Fraser?

Well, I was concerned because I really didn't think I'd be able to run on Fraser and the good news is I did get to run on Fraser, so I only got 50K out for the week, which, you know what, whatever by 4. Standards. Yeah, it's a lot of 1250K. How many hours were what was the time? Yeah, not case. Yeah, feel free to pick me up on that.

So Fraser, yeah, like I was over at Kingfisher Bay Resort, so we were driving the four drives out each day to go to, you know, all the different places on Fraser and what I think like everyone tells you not to go to Fraser Island. So Fraser Island, for those listen, overseas or don't know, it's a island off Harvey Bay in Queensland, up north of Brisbane. Biggest sand island in the world. In the world. Yeah. Known for the dingoes. Known for beautiful Christine freshwater lake, pristine

freshwater lakes as well. So everyone says school holidays don't go there. People are gonna bog. You're gonna be in Congo lines. It's awful. No, it was it was brilliant. We were driving across the island from Kingfisher, like an hour and a half or an hour, 15 drive. Yeah. We're gonna run into five cars. Oh, really? Never had any. Not not one issue. Did get to Lake McKenzie one day and the car park we got there about 10:00 AM and the car park was full and it's nearly self

seating. So once that car park's full there is nowhere else to park. You just got to come back later in the day so it actually controls how busy it can get. But really mate, I, I, I've heard all these horror stories. Brilliant. So I mean, you've you've done a great job for tourism Fraser Island. Yeah, but but I'm curious to know how you ran because for those that don't know dingo infested and the they say don't run. Don't run. So there's dingo fences around the resort.

So the resort's on the western, the western side of the island, so the non seaward side of the island. And I was thinking the dingo because I've been there a few times and seen the fence and I was thinking it would probably just run around the back of the resort. So I was thinking I'm going to be stuck in a 1K radius. All right. The reality is it's the dingo fence runs, you know, three by three K, there's A1 kilometre of trail climb there. There's a road that I never knew

existed up there was a hill. I did. So what I did do, I didn't have much time. We had to get going in the morning. So, and this is like if you're ever on holidays and you just need to get something done quick and you're not really sure what to do, you can't fit in a full session. My go to is if if there's a hill there, warm up and then just go and start repeating the hill. This hill was bloody tough. It was I was running 2 minutes up this steep hill and did a few

repeats of that one day. Went up the trail section one day found a few other trails through there. Like mate it was great run and I still just didn't. It wasn't the location, it was just I was busy. I didn't have the time so. So you got to run on Fraser? Got to run on Fraser and then on the weekend, I've already explained Nerang. We had a great group out there in Nerang and you know, it was a very event, eventful day.

And then this morning I was up at the spit on my usual fart like on a Tuesday. And we have a like I suppose when I was running with the elite mob back there at Gold Coast Runco years and years ago, we if you ran out, say we did a 20 minute fart, like we run out, turn around at 10 minutes and run back. And then, you know, you're chasing the people who haven't run out as far. It's a great way to include everyone in the session.

And I know pretty well not distance, we just know the point you get to at 10 minutes, you know, if you can get to the get out of the Spit Trail and onto the seawall and you can get to the like the Coast Guard's tower. Yep, like you're Tim Vincent, if you just creep out, you know, you're back going well. And I made it. I reckon I got about 40 metres out on the seawall today, which I haven't done in. So you are running well. I was going to say all. Fresh no, but this is what it

comes back. I think if we you know, if you were to track your mood around your running in the last even just in the episodes of the podcast, you. You are running. I made the seawall. That was an achievement. Yeah, that's an amazing, amazing. Quickly before we move on, because we're about to get to some of these WTF events that keep on coming in couple of what was it 3, three weeks ago, four weeks ago maybe you talked about the idea of Kanani.

Yeah. And potentially going down there, I, I, I, I don't want to say you've failed to disclose the seriousness of this race, but over the weekend or over the last week, I've spoken to someone who did that race. Yes. And let me reenact the conversation for you. I was standing there and the two guys I was with, Whippett and Rady, who you know, both of them, Whippett said, started talking about Kanani. And Rady said who's doing Kanani?

And Whippett said, oh, Fanas is doing Kanani and Rady. The look on Rady's face as he looked at me and said you're doing Kanani. And I kind of wait. Yeah, Rady said. That's the hardest race I've ever done. And we were at the front of Whippet's house, and Whippet's got this big hill that runs next to his house. And he then proceeded ready, then proceeded to look at me and said, if you're going to do Kanani, do you know what a good training session would be?

Walk that hill 100 times that that would take me all day to try and do that. Yeah. I accuse you, Courtney Atkinson, of not properly preparing me and briefing me for this trail race. Is it as hard as Rudy's saying? You have to run up Mount Wellington to begin with. I've. Never been to Mount Wellington. I don't know what Mount Wellington looks like. It's. Well, you've heard of the Pinnacle race where they run up the road?

Not really, no. The Pinnacle Rd run, I think it's a half marathon, so that starts to put it into context. 1/2 marathon uphill. Right. All uphill. Well, give me some context. I've done UTA 50. How much harder is it this is? This is more of a true mountain race verse trail race in the sense of look, I don't know my stats, so I'm not going to start whacking out, but like, let's just for argument's sake, say you start at the water where the Sydney to Hobart race finishes

the yacht race. So you're at sea level, It's well, they have a vertical kilometre, so it's going to go up over 1000 metres that that's just the beginning. That's the beginning. Well, yeah, well, that's not, that doesn't make the whole course. So then when you get up the top you get to run around some rocks and a few other things up there. It'll be fun, mate. How long is? This going to take me? Well, it depends on what distance you want to do.

Before I've run up the trail, I've done the race. How long are you budgeting for it to take you? No. I haven't even thought about it. I just thought it'd be a great place to go and and run. We've looked at two photos. We looked at Noosa and we looked at Kanani and I was like, Mount Wellington looks way, way more interesting. The. Flats The flats of Noosa seem way more. Sounds like you're having second thoughts I'm. Genuinely nervous now, getting really scared the crap out of me

anyway. Well, on mountains. My first WTF of the week is the tenement mountain jumping competition in China. OK, it's not uphill running. This is downhill running. Now think of think of an A like a a kids optical obstacle course and putting that on the steepest section of the downhill of the Great Wall of China. These guys are like kind of what's that show on TV? We where the guys do all the gym stuff. Ultimate. Warrior. No, no Ninja. Warrior, Ninja warrior, Ninja

warrior. So think of Ninja Warrior for a kilometre downhill, and they've just put all these obstacles and boxes on steps and these guys are fanging it. So it's kind of like parkour. Yeah, like free running. Who's? The guy who does free the Aussie fella that free Dom tomato Dom did you see the other day to see him have a great. He would be a gun at this. See Dom the other day, I think I read he has the most the most views ever on an Instagram reel. Really.

Yep. I'm not going to try and quote the number, but I'm assuming it's a crap load. So he had some most views ever on an Instagram reel. And do you know what? Have a guess what he did and he's a free runner. What do you think he did to get the most views ever on a reel? I'm. Guessing he did some sort of big drop or big jump something. He jumped off a building, tried to get across the water and smacked his head on a piece of concrete. He was eating it. Yeah.

Oh my gosh. I'm just bringing it up now I'm having a look at it. What are you looking at? I'm watching the reel. Oh no, I'm watching that reel 00. This is the mountain. The mountain run. No, I think you're looking at Don. No, I am watching. Don Oh, you're watching Don Tomato. Oh. And that's why, because you're you. How many times have you watched it? Now I'm. Watching it again, yeah. Oh I know it looks like he hits his head but he actually it catches him under.

But again, we celebrate. We'll put it all these. I agree. You'll have to remind me to put that one in the. 910. I need to write it in. 710 million views that's had. 710 million, so let's put Dom. And now it's going to have 710 million and three because that is I mean. I'm going to, yeah. We'll put that in the reel for everyone. I've just put in the notes. Anyway, that's what do you reckon about the mountain run thing, I mean. I love it. No, I and that's that's I'd do

that. I'd absolutely do that. You you got. To have flexibility for. That I'd be terrible at it, but I'd still do it. Yeah, that's good. I like that one. So that I like, I like it, but it's not my favourite of the day. So we're getting into the better stuff. I'm going to play some audio. Here we go. You got that? Oh, yeah, Yeah. So I'm. I'm going to do the translation here. Yeah. And the runner, he can hear deep breathing. He's saying I need a chicken leg. I need a chicken leg.

This is this is great. This is the the Ginning Taibai Lake Half Marathon in Shandong and they have a a chicken aid station. They have a chicken aid station but. People are grabbing chicken wings and breasts. And they go. And the rice chicken is rich in protein and other nutritional, nutritional components can replenish the energy for runners. But this guy can't find his. He can't find the chicken leg. He doesn't want the wings. He doesn't want the breast. He needs his leg.

What? How would you go consuming chicken mid rice? I reckon if I was running hard, it'd be a hard hard. Swallow. Swallow, wouldn't it? Yeah. I'm just trying to imagine putting it even in a sandwich it. Depends on how hard you're going. Food is all about but but if you this brings on like this is an energy station. It looks like a Mara. What would you say it is half marathon, half marathon. If you could have anything you like at the aid station at the Gold Coast Marathon, when you're

running through, what are you? What? What are you going to choose? Anything so? The interest, the times I've run marathons, the times where I've and even Utah, any time I've sort of gone into that hurt locker where I'm like, I need things in me sugar, but I hit a point of those runs or am I? The last thing I want to see is anything sweet because it just it I've been if it's whether it's gels or goose or whatever, or even the the electrolyte drinks, there's a sweetness to everything.

And so it's just it my mouth. Your taste buds are just craving anything but that. Then the irony is the moment I finish, you see, I see people drink beers. I don't understand how they do it because all I after anywhere, it used to be a footy game. All I wanted was a freezing cold can of Coke I think. You're just going to say a Coke? No, I'm not. I'm not.

Do you know what actually was a welcome relief on those trail runs I've done is a is a honey and peanut butter sandwich where it's almost, it no longer resembles a sandwich because it's been squished up in the in the back of my pack for so long. But so, so it's almost just like this sandwich bowl. Back to the basics, it's like being a kid at school when you like shove shove the the brown paper bag into your school bag. Stepped on it a few times and then finally I've got to eat

this for lunch. Yep. There is no greater realisation moment, there's no greater example of when that fuel is just food, taste doesn't matter than in the middle of one of these things. But chicken would be a bridge too far for me. Boy, what would you love? You know what, I've a few times really got somewhere in and more in the trail races than than Rd races or tries, but I just wanted a Slurpee. Oh yeah, like a prop when it's when it's a, you know, like

you're cooked. Yeah, it's a hot day. I have one of those down at Kira. Yeah, like 2-3 weeks ago I was at half point of like I was halfway and I was about 9 guys into a run now. The 711 stop. Yep, 711 at Kira there. That's great. That's. So a 52nd time it saved you. They're so cheap, they're. So cheap, so cheap and it just gives you that instant. It cools you off, gives you sugar hit, then you roll. On Yep. So that's, yeah, I want, I want, I want a Slurpee station. OK.

And then finally rolling off the that I was then looking at what weird things you eat or see at events. And this one? Have you heard of the Krispy Kreme Challenge? Well, I've got my own Krispy Kreme challenge. How do I how do I eat these and not tell my wife about them? But. See, she doesn't really tell us too much, but I'll explain it. So it started back in 2004, a dare between a couple college ships at NC State. So now it's a full blown charity

race. So didn't give me much information there, but what I can tell you, 4000 runners, they go 2.5 miles and then to a Krispy Kreme shop and they've got to eat 12 doughnuts before returning. I love. How would you go with the how do you go with the dozen? How would you go with the dozen? No, I'd be. I'd be able to get that. Done you reckon you'd get it in? Fact. What's 2.5 miles in K's? It's like 5. Nah, not that far. What is it? 1.6 so 3.2 half is 8 so it's 4K's, yeah.

Close to four. OK, what would you run 8K's in? Yeah, at at the moment. You're asking questions that I've got to do maths for, Liam. Well, it's not that hard, Liam. You went to two Olympic Games, you're an athlete, you should be able to do this maths in your head. Could you run 3 minute pace for eight KS at the moment? No. Could you run three 30s? Yes. OK, let's say let's give you three 30s. Yeah. Well, jeez, yeah, I'm a bit quick on the three 30s.

Oh, well, this one just say three 30s. Yes, let's say. Three 30s. So you're going to run at 28 minutes? Yep. How fast could you? How would you go eating doughnuts? 12 doughnuts. Depending, like, see, this is where I got into what doughnuts. So they're going to Krispy Kreme. Yeah, I reckon I could do the Krispy Kreme to glaze 'cause they're they're air. Yeah. They're air if you if you went to what's the other mob Dunkin? Dunkin Donuts with the Dunkin

Donuts the heavy icing. But even their cinnamon, yeah, you know, they have like you do. You know, you get 3 cinnamons for 6 bucks or whatever. If you told me to do 12 of them, you'd be struggling. They're dough. They're doughy. The reason I ask is because I'm wondering whether this is a race where you and I actually it might be in that given out only because I'd catch you up on the eating. I reckon if we did, instead of the Krispy Kreme challenge, do the Dunkin Donut challenge.

Or then I'd be a chance. You'd you'd be in there? I reckon I'd struggle. You might have to look. You know what I'd go through? Robina Townsend. Yeah. I can hardly just smell them. Now I want. It's a hard one to walk. Past now I want a donut so badly all right there's some good WTI like the food edition food edition the WTF events as well right? What do you mean we got to get

to? We got some questions that people have sent in because we love getting the expertise of 1 Courtney Atkinson Tea. We'll get to those in a moment, but we've got some more audio, Courtney. Yeah, this one. We'll see where we go with it.

Hey, let's listen first. Call punch trend cold Cold plunge is good for health trend which led to a multi $1,000,000 industry of cold plunges started when there was a collaboration between the podcast host Andrew Huberman and a researcher, I believe her name is Susanna Soberg. She had a study published in a medical journal where she purported to say that cold plunges activate all of these metabolic pathways that charge your metabolism and lead to

better health and weight loss. Andrew Huberman did 9 hours of podcast, had her on his show. Next thing you know he is recording Instagram posts from a cold plunge. Every other influencer is 2 telling you how great these cold plunges are. All tracing back to the study. This study had a sample size of 15 people. The experimental group was 8. The control group was 7. The experimental group on average had about 50% less body

fat than the control group. So it's a sample size of 15 people and the controls are unmatched. That should already disqualify this from being taken seriously. However, the study shows, quote unquote, statistically significant results from the cold plunge in this group. You want to know what the statistically significant result was? The people who cold plunged over 24 hours burned about 24 more calories than the people who

didn't. If I did one minute of jumping jacks, I'd probably burn 24 calories and that started the entire cold punch. So this was from. Tell me what I've just listened to. So this was from the Growth Equation podcast. So these guys are all about like, you know, expertise performance, but science based performance. And what they're saying is don't believe everything you see on the Internet. They're saying the whole cold plunge trend that's happened recently more through

influences. So we're not talking about the Wim Hof stuff and all that. We're talking about, you know, Bondi and you know, Bondi on the beach, all the ice bars and that. They're saying a lot of this trend started. They've what pinpointed where the trend started and why it started, and then saying that the actual basis of that particular information was flawed. So to break it down, they're saying Andrew Huberman is the influencer in this in this

moment. He's taken some data from 1 researcher and because of his level of influence, that data has then been sent out and taken as gospel. The data itself isn't as compelling as well. If, if all the people who've gone out and got into cold, plunging off the back of what Huberman said had just read the data, there's no way they would have bought into it like they have. So they're looking at a specific a specific data point and what they're coming out of it.

So when I talk about Winkhoff and I talk about other things, because I know this, this is a really decisive like people get so wound up about this subject of ice baths. I'd actually go as far as saying that if, if there's one thing that for health that's trending in the last kind of, you know, five years or whatever that you know, people are on either side of it's ice baths. Would you agree?

It's it's funny how people again to I I do agree, but it is funny how people can become like it's like supporting sporting teams like I'm team ice bath like I am. It's like, yeah, it's an it's an it's a non negotiable. It's a must hit for me and. But why? But they say the reason I grab this was like, wasn't specifically, let's not get hung up too much on the ice bar specifically. It's just that whole idea of not questioning why. Am I doing this like what is it?

Look, I would guess that there's a lot of people that do it because they do like the way they feel after it and the like the way I I've no doubt there are a lot of people. And I think if you sort of pulled some people up on it and really sort of put their back up against the wall and while they were doing this, it's easy to default to a wall because I like

the way it makes me feel. I don't think there's as many people doing the level of exercise that justifies cold plunge type recovery methods then to because you know, you've talked about you as an Olympian, you tried it and you gave it up and. But that's subjective as as. Well, that was for you in turn, but. We we had the data at that point in time to say it doesn't.

Do anything this will. Well, The thing is, and this is probably a good, you know, where we can take this is I think it's worth noting that over time, whether it's nutrition, whether it's ice bath with whether it's Physiology and all that, over time we evolve. Yeah. And, and, and the literature and the studies, it all evolves and what, what we thought five years ago is a different protocol or a different thing that we do to today.

And that will change again. You know, there's a lot of, let's just say it changes, it changes. And it's so hard to know what to throw, what, what to throw, you know, if you're full weight behind in the sense of like, this thing's really going to work for me and make a difference and I'm going to go all in on it because you can't go all in on everything. No, of course not.

But also, and I think to what you just said, then there is that can I, I'm going to put my throw my full weight behind it changes, which just means that you're learning, you're learning, you know you it's if and if it changes and you change your practise, then good. But you can, I think you can, you probably can avoid some of those pitfalls with just asking a few more questions as well or fearing it, having it, figuring out a little bit more information.

Ask one more question than you think you need to. Yeah, I think so. You know what, Courtney? It's kind of like when you go, but I told someone this in the office today who asked about what shoes should I get. I said do you know what the best shoes you are for you to get would be to start running the ones that feel great after you've tried on 6 pairs? I said. I said because she literally she's. We've got a, we can we can trademark.

This I I she said she played netball and I said, oh, OK, what what shoes do you play netball? And she goes netball shoes. I'm like, yeah, but what brand are they? She said ASICS and I said, well, why don't you run in a pair of ASICS? Then she said, oh, because I don't like them. I'm like, great, don't run in them. Go try and find other pairs of shoes, find out which ones you like.

And it was just an easy conversation to say the best pair of shoes for you are the ones that feel great after you've tried on a bunch. I do refuse to, you know, she said, oh, but no, but what, which ones would you recommend? I'm like, the ones that work for me are not the ones that will work for you. It's you know, go out and find the shoes and it you know if cold plunging works for you, great. Just because someone told you it works for them doesn't mean it's going to work for you.

Yeah, talking about you just made me think about shoes, right? And I will talk about this a little bit more, but one of the ladies, cat from Gold Coast, Run Coast sent us some information about what to do with equipment or shoes and that and what we can do with them after them instead of trying them out. I'm going to bring this up in

the next few weeks. But one of the things, the reason she actually first come in and or had a chat or sent me a message was she actually, you remember that guide I had on runners and yeah, what each brand had which runners she was taken back because she runs in Brooks and Brooks weren't on the on the list. And I wrote back to him and I said, don't worry, I run in Solomon. And they were. They don't wanna literally see you, don't worry. But.

Brooks is that one. I think Brooks is an interesting shoe company at the moment because talking about this thing with the the ice bars and influencers, Brooks are the influencers shoe. Yeah, yeah, because I kind of find that. I don't know how if it's just what I see, but I kind of find the the crew where Brooks invest, at least here in Australia, invest some of their money. It's nearly like they've given up on actually trying to win the performance audience.

Yep. And they have just gone hard, hard into your everyday runner and influencer audience. And I wonder, I'd love to see stats on that of how it actually translates, you know, so like if you were talking about some runners running slowly in the beginning, like are they the ones out there picking up Brooks? Is it a a strategy that actually works? Have to look some dirt. I I think I've had a pair of the glycerin back in the Ryan Brooks.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was when they were rolling with a more of a the, it was a plate and I didn't love it, but this was this I'm talking at least it probably when I first got into running. It was probably 8 years ago that I tried them, I didn't love them. And then I ended up in the ASICS Nova blast type shoe quickly afterwards. And I was pretty devoted to that for a while up until you infiltrated my wardrobe with a

bunch of other shoes. But yeah, Brooks, look, I I haven't run in for ages, so I wouldn't be able to comment on them, but. Brooks were the one back. Like when I was younger, Brooks were the gel, weren't they? They had the green. Was that glycerin? Was it a green gel? And that's what they're like. The trademark thing was you had the green gel. But you're right there when. You were young, was pretty like I've got the gel. Exactly.

It was like the Reebok Pumps. We got some questions, Courtney. We got some questions from some people because we love when people throw in these questions. I'm gonna start with this one from Sam. Sam Lloyd says, hey, legends loves the pod, loved the last pod. He's liked them all, but he loved the last one in particular. But he wanted to put some

questions up for you. For someone who is wanting to be competitive in the top five to 10 runners in ultra, what are some of the tips for sponsorship besides social media? This is interesting. So ultras can get expensive with gear and entries and any help from brands can majorly help. Second one. He also wanted to ask, do you count A5 KBP if it's downhill on a trail? Yes, yeah, count it. No.

OK, let's get to that big one there, which is so Sam's obviously a good runner if he's looking to be competitive in the top five to 10 runners in an in the ultra field sponsorship. How does he go about it? Tips. For sponsorship besides social media, OK, this is interesting because you know, we talk so much about social media these days. I'm going to say the most important things to brands at the moment is community.

So and there's two ways you can I suppose get exposure. 1 is you can be yourself on social media and that shows what you're doing, you know, and the brands you're using and whatever information you're giving to a whole big audience. But if you choose not to go down that path, the other way is that you have your own community that's real. And when I say real in real life, and that's a value to

companies. So if you had your own run group or you're helping coaching a group, and that's what we see with a lot of, it's a similar to a run club, right? We're seeing a lot of the brands attracted by the run clubs. And it's not like we're talking thousands of members here, but they're, let's say fifty members of a run club that you can influence or fifty members of a training squad that you can influence. And they're 50 real people that can purchase that shoe and you know it.

Yeah, so it's a hard. One, when you say tips for sponsorship, I mean social media and and content is where it's at these days. There's no shy away from that, away from that. It's like, how do you get value for your local community? And when I say communities, like if you're living, you know, more regional, yeah, you know, are you the Bendigo's a bad example because there's a lot of runners there. But let's just say Mandura over

in WA, right? If you're the, you know, the king of Mandura and runners, you might have actually a real pull in Mandura to be able to make purchase decisions for a lot of runners. And that's going to have value to a brand. Yeah, to that to join in there, Sam, because it's actually prior to the world of radio. I worked in marketing and this is the idea of sponsorship. There's a budget. A lot of most companies will

have a budget for sponsorship. But this idea of it being a benevolent sponsorship, it's it's naive to suggest that companies are going to throw your money, even if you know, we talked a bit earlier on in this idea about Andy Buchanan marathoner not making the project when he broke the Australian record. But this bloke who broke this world record running in Crocs did get the interview. It's about the ability to make noise.

Now if you I think the idea of trying to avoid social media and whether Sam, your anti social media, don't think about it as having to make the most noise. You just have to be targeted and specific and value, value and more and more it is about niche. And you know this the for a while there a lot of brands went away from the big audience influences because if someone who has 900,000 followers but they aren't actually influencing

any of them. But if someone has versus someone who might have 5000 followers, but those 5000 followers are dedicated and religious in their following and cons consumption of the content. And essentially, you know, if they say buy this, they will buy this. That's what matters more. So if you've only got 500 followers and you don't think that's enough to present as a following, develop that 500 into a community that will really be influenced by what you put out there.

Agreed. It doesn't have to be 10s of thousands for it to be worthy of a sponsorship. Correct and in the end, I think value is the word you, you, you'll be judged by what value you give. And I'll give you 1. You know, we're asking for tips on this. I'll give you one last tip. Value isn't going to be following the herd and just being another one of the same. You know, like we and that's with social media. Often what you'll see is someone succeeds and then. There's a whole bunch of

imitations. Yeah, if you've got the same, if you're, if you're providing exactly the same as and I'm talking product in yourself in this way, if you're providing the same product as, you know, the other 10 people and then there's one doing a job that's unique, I can tell you where I'm going to go every day of the week. So Sam don't go and cut, don't go peroxide your hair and cut a mullet into it mate. It's been done. Jodis Duffy has also sent a question in.

Hey boys, love and the potty smashed all the EPS in the last few days. Quick question for Courtney. My partner has been a run on and off for years and struggles to get her kilometres up as her heart rate is always at 185 or above no matter what speed she's running. We've been implementing intervals into her training and it's working but very slowly. Is there anything else you could recommend to bring that heart rate down? It's a good question. It is a great question, It's

kind of stumped me a little bit. First thing can I not with not from position of authority. Make sure that heart rate is being measured by chest strap, not off your wrist. That's. That is, that's coming from me as somebody who apparently, according to my Garmin watch, at one point during the Noosa Tri run, had a heart rate of 210. I didn't. The watch isn't an accurate representation for heart rate. If you wanted to truly measure it, you need to go and get a chest strap.

That's really good advice. That's the first thing I was like because. 185 is like regardless of age here is really high. Yeah. So that's a great call, Liam. I reckon that would be the first thing to check. The second thing, how can you bring that heart rate down is actually go slower, slow down,

slow down. If you run if, if that heart rate's too hard and and you're finding it, it's continually like to me that without having a mistake in the heart rate watch, it sounds like it's just redlining the whole time and going too hard the whole time. The only way to bring that heart rate down is to go easier and then build from a more aerobic base if that heart rate's too hard. And without knowing anything, I'd also say go and speak to

your health professional like if if you're. 185 is really high. That's the consistent level you're running at, yeah. So if you've got, if you've, if you spoke to your health professional who says, yeah, your heart's fine, and then you've got the right equipment to measure it accurately, then what you're saying is slow down. But even as we said earlier on about, I forgot the name of who it was, but we're talking about the paces you run and the nasal, we're joking about nasal

breathing and all that. But you know, just even hearing that about how slow that, you know, someone might have to progress from even a 15 minute kilometre and build off that versus someone who starts off and can run a 7 minute kilometre and then, you know, builds from there. So everyone's going to. Be in. Not all set of lungs and hearts are created equal. I've got the guy within that running group who, Mitch Scott.

Yeah, Mitch, he's a he's a lifeguard back down at Bondi in Sydney, took to running light and he's already running like 240 Maris. Like he's just, he's just good at it. He's got a natural disposition to it and he's good at it. And it seems I look at him and go, there's a part of me that goes that's so unfair, but it doesn't have to be fair. We're not all created equal. We're all built different. And as a result, some of us are going to be able to do stuff with less training.

Some of us won't even be able to do that with all the training. Correct. But the point is finding the running and I guess go go back to what old mate asked there, Joe, just there. Find the running that your partner's enjoying. Just get make sure heart rate get that sorted and then find the level of running that she enjoys. Yep. Anyway, that's us. We are done. How long are we going today? Well, I reckon we're about 1:15. 1:15 It's always a good time. Good time.

I know I always forget. Courtney always wants me to do this earlier on, but I always forget. But like subscribe and share comment the community's building. We are having a really good time and seriously the numbers are great. We haven't the things are going well for in the beginning pod. It's going well. It's going well. But yeah, comment and that will help us now next week special app coming up because you are going to be doing it from the

land of the long white cloud. No is that New Zealand? What's Japan? Rising Sun, that one, I knew it had something. To do with that the land. Of the Rising Sun. And on that note, we'll see how much running I'll get done.