back then. I mean, you could get away with copying the Nike logo today, you get sued and it shut you down very, very quickly. It's
wearable art. It's like collecting art, right? Like, you know, did the quarter million dollar shoe and now we're working on the $4 million shooting and
talking about that shoe or was four or
I'm gonna build it and it's gonna stop for
anyone what goes into a $4 million shoe I mean, there'll
be some some American alligator and diamond
Welcome to In Search of Excellence where we meet entrepreneurs, CEOs, entertainers, athletes, motivational speakers and trailblazers of excellence with incredible stories from all walks of life. My name is Randall Kaplan. I'm a serial entrepreneur, venture capitalist, and the host of In Search of Excellence, which I started to motivate and inspire us to achieve excellence in all areas of our lives. I guess today is Dominic Cimbrone. Dominic is an artist designer, culture creator and
entrepreneur. He is the world's leading creative custom shoe maker and is known throughout the world. As the surgeon, Dominic has built an incredible business by making handcrafted one of a kind sneakers for 1000s of people including celebrities like Justin Bieber, Drake and LeBron James professional sports teams, including the Golden State Warriors in Miami Heat, and some of the most iconic brands in the world, including Gucci, Bentley, Heineken, Pizza
Hut, and many others. How many thanks for being here while back forth.
Thanks for having me.
So let's talk about the size of the shoe market itself. Before we get into exactly what you do. So the athletic shoe market is $170 billion a year. If you look at it, Nike sells $47 billion of shoes a year, a custom shoe market is $738 million a year. And it's going to if you believe that predictions of $11 billion by 2030. Can you tell everybody exactly what it is and what you do?
There's just an opportunity and you see it in all brands that people want something one on one, right? Whether it's a custom Rolex or a custom. Bentley, like everyone wants something that's a unique to them, and why have something that many people have. And that's how I got into it. All my friends had the same shoes as me in high school, I might have got them early and had them before them, but at the same time, they were all the same. So it's like how do I make something for
myself? So I can, you know, begin feel unique. I think
my son started getting me into the sneaker thing. He was 14 years old. And we walked into a store and said, Dad, I need a pair of shoes. And I thought all right, oh, you have 150 bucks to buy a pair of shoes. And he loved them. He said that, you know you can't buy shoes for 150 bucks. I said why not? I walked out of there with Air Jordan all blue, they were 170 bucks. And I went up to $300. And he explained to me how
the whole thing works. So explain how Nike, for example, produces a quantity and if you know the quantity, how people collect them and want them and how the minute they go on sale. If they're lucky enough to get one and you don't have a bot and you go through the app, how much those shoes can be worth and why.
Yeah, I mean, the resale market is insane. And that's really what catapults Nike. I mean, Nike, I can't not all have the numbers of what Nike produces, but they produce 1000s and 1000s of different pairs and at a price point, you know, you know, between 180 to $200 for a pair. So you know, and then once they're all you know, buttoned up and then that's where they go in the secondary market where you can buy, you know, shoes from anywhere from 500 to a few $1,000 for Travis Scott's
alright, I love Travis Scott's got seven or eight pair now and just off the golf shoes, by the way, okay. I'm a horrible golfer. No, you know what, they're so nice. I'm afraid to wear I'm on the golf course. But I think I think they're meant to be worn. Let's talk about collabs because again, I think there's a lot of people listening to the show, who don't know what a collab is, and don't get, for example, why Nike would make a collab with a Travis Scott or some other brand. Yeah, I
mean, Kanye West, really kick started all of the, you know, they Kanye had a collaboration with Nike and Nike want to give them give him what he wanted and make his own soul and it's originally they told Kanye he wasn't an athlete. Right. And Kanye would argue that because he is an athlete, the way he the way he performs and, you know, the way he's on stage and how he actually has more, he can sell more than an
athlete right. So you know after that You're not you see the world we're in, like, you know, we're we people are so driven by celebrities, and they're so driven by a person that all of these brands need a person behind it to help sell the product.
So one of the things, when first of all been a huge fan of yours, I've been following you and all your shoes are super cool. And for all the viewers out there who are into shoes, you gotta go check out his issues, they're absolutely incredible. One of the things that I did in terms of the research when I saw you making custom chooses, I'll just actually make them, right. And if you would explain, for example, how you take a pair of shoes, you pull it apart, and then you reconstruct it in a
different material. So tell us how it works. And then how do you know it's not going to fall apart? You know, Justin Bieber is running around the stage like a crazy person or, you know, LeBrons running down the court. How do you test the shoe?
Well, I mean, I've been making shoes since I was 15. Starting from paint test to pick then finding different paint and then learning how to sew on top and then the pair I've learned shoot pair and, and then I learned traditional shoemaking. And I've just been doing it for so long. And I've studied on my own, how to make shoes. And you know, we test some stuff, but at the end of the day, this is wearable art and we want it to be worn, and most people don't even wear their shoes. In athletic
setting. I mean, yes, I made shoes for PJ Tucker to play in. I made shoes for Kyle Koosman to play in. Football players scored touchdowns. So every year now back then was a Yeah, yeah. Oh, you know Odell Beckham scored Cooper cup scored in the pyramid cleats. Jalen Ramsey, you know, got some blocks. And it's just, um, everything's different, right. So when I do a cleat, it's different than a fully
reconstructed sneaker. And so if I were to take that shoe, I would completely take the upper often and only use the soul.
Let's talk about your family. You're born in Orange County moved to Santa Rosa, your dad Lu owns a restaurant. And your mom was a chef of a restaurant, tell us about the influence your parents have on you and your dad's work ethic and how what you saw influenced you as a kid and then now is a very successful business person. Yeah,
I think just growing up in the kitchen. At first, when I was young, I didn't think of anything of it other than I was ungrateful. And then to see them just open up a dream and open up a restaurant and how normal it was to see as a kid, you know, helped me realize that I could do anything. And to see the creativity from the dishes and the recipes to the front of house to how the place the
restaurant actually looked. So you know, to see the work ethic that my dad had and still has, you know, helped teach me to just work hard and and just go after my dreams.
I think a lot of us have jobs that we don't really like I mean, you were a dishwasher at one point in the restaurant I worked construction I actually dug ditches for the weightwatchers world headquarter building in Michigan as a young kid now span I thought that was so cool I my shirt off on the street, you know getting dirty I cold called on the phone book people in Detroit, all ladies basically asked if they want a new siding or needed a sidewalk replace, but how important is it
still to do this, these kind of shitty jobs when you're younger and to go through it to figure out what you want to do and say, This is not something I want to do.
I mean, I don't, times are changing so much. And the younger generation now is so much different. And with all of the resources that you have out there. I don't know if you have to work as hard. I believe you should always work hard, but you can also it's about working hard and smart. And yeah, I mean, there was jobs that I did that I didn't love but I did my best at them and always got raises and always grew within the business or the
company. And you know, I think it's important because even once you if you have your own business, there's jobs that you don't want to do. And you know some people say if you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life and that's bullshit. You work harder than
you would for someone else. And yeah, it's just think doing learning to do I mean that's what school was for me right you do you go to school and I didn't like it but I you know, I did enough just to get by and and then the jobs that I did do, I
did my best. And it taught me even to this day, it's like you can you can have do everything how you want but there's going to be some things that you may or may not like, you know, whether it's you know, letting people go or, you know, creating SOPs or whatever It's like it's there's more to having your own business and working. For one, you know, when person, you said
something that I think a lot of people don't really get, you know, we have different people, different groups watching my show, you have kind of the 18 to 24 college kids, recent graduates, and we have people younger in their career, maybe one to 10 years out of school, and then you've got kind of a 40. Plus,
that's really 2525 25. I think a common misperception is when you have a business, and I can't wait to give all my years of torque, this is the sickness place I've ever seen in my life, that people really don't want to do the shit work. And I tell my interns, I do a lot of coaching. I've 34 interns this summer. And I said 90% of my job is really doing the shit work. So what's your advice to everybody out there? Who think this is so
glamorous? You're the CEO, he built this business with 10s of millions of dollars in revenue. And it's all glamour. Yeah, I
mean, I've had to, I've had to do shit work for a long time. And there's still things that you have to do. And I think that's what makes it special is like I can you can come in and do to any part of it. But like, I mean, I brought on a business partner, six years ago, and you know, first thing he did, even before it was my partner, he was sweeping the floors and making sure that it was clean. And it's like, I still would have to pick up trash, I still, you know,
clean the toilet. Like, if it's dirty, you know, and it's like, you can't teach someone how to do that. You just have it, you just do it. Like, you know, I would do that anywhere. And it's just, I don't know, it's just instilled in me, I think
a lot of us, when we grow up, we don't really know what we want to do. We don't have special talents or skills, going on building things you like you're structuring things, you had a next door neighbor, which I'd love you to talk about. But what about all the people out there who don't have a passion that young age or don't want to follow? Or they should they be worried about kind of finding their calling, if they don't really know what they want to do? And they're 12
years old? or eight years old? Like you did?
Yeah, I mean, I might have been creative and building it, like tapped into something that many people don't, but at the same time, it took me 20 plus years to, to keep doing it to really know that I wanted to do it. So even while I was exploring that it was very insecure of thinking that that was it yet. Even when I was making shoes for Justin Bieber, you know, 15 years ago, I still was just like unsure, right? Because some, some months I'd make money and some I want
it. And it's like, that's not consistent or healthy. So I had to figure out how to turn it into a consistent business. But what I tell everyone, and that's why I teach classes, and I teach workshops, it's about like, try as much stuff as possible. And that's what I do with my children. I have young kids, and I'm let them try as much as possible, and then see what sticks for them. So you don't know what you don't know. You don't know what you don't know.
And you're not gonna know unless you try. Right. And failing is good. Yep. Yeah. You got to fail to succeed. Yeah.
I mean, I believe failure is just a part of it. And if you really want to take out that, look at the word failure, it's it's quitting it's failure is giving up or failure just means Yeah, giving up but for me, in the sense that I've messed up so many pairs of shoes, I've, you know, lost clients. I've, there's a lot of things that went wrong before I went right. You know,
do you think the fear of failure is necessary to be successful?
The fear of failure
as a motivator,
I mean, it's definitely motivating. You know, you don't want to fail, and you don't want to, but like, if it's crippling, that's not healthy, like it's better to fail than to never try it. All right, and anything, right, just always move forward. And you know, that fail fast? Right? The faster you fail, the faster you get through and try something else.
So let's go back to when you were 10 years old, and you actually built a two story for not 10 years all I mean, were you actually I was fun buying the word and taking the nails and actually I mean, the thing work or you could walk up and do it all down.
Yep. No, that's funny. I was telling my my daughter the story last night about that. We found one of my soccer coaches worked at a somewhere where had that will leave a bunch of old wood and we still go we pick up different like two by fours and plywood and we grab it and then we cut it and screw it or nail it. together in the backyard, we'd have stairs we'd have underground. And you could sit up there too. So, I mean, we built probably three, four
different types of forts. So we'd like building shit.
But who got the hammer and the nails for you? I
mean, we had mine probably either had it in the house or my next door neighbor.
Who was a contractor. Yeah. And you went and, and watched him. So you can actually,
I watched him, I would go and just watch him cut would watch him, you know, put siding up and like build the inside of the house.
I think people are watching you online now and saying, I want to build my custom shoe. Oh, yeah,
I didn't do it. That's why I teach. And there's so many people that reach out to me, they're like, We just watched you and your work. And then we learned how to do it.
So I sold T shirts and college screenprinted I didn't have the printer myself, I would send them away. And Nike had to just do a campaign and go on to the bookstore. Some of the T shirts are cool. Some are horrible. I said are I'm gonna make my own. Basically, back then. I mean, you could get away with copying the Nike logo today, you get sued, and it shut you down. Very, very quickly. You got into something a little similar counterfeiting business and you
use your talents. Can you talk about what you did in terms of Chucky Cheese, and then the high school graduation tickets. And
yeah, I was always trying to find a hustle. And so in our high school, we only were allocated so many tickets per family and all of our friends and family had a lot of fat, or they had a lot of family. So we needed more tickets. So you can only buy so many. So we were like, Why don't we just copy some so I was copying and making tickets for a few years of my high school career. So more people can come. And
then something happened. That had a consequence to your brother. Yeah,
my brother ended up. That was three years after I two years after I graduated, I think he ended up getting caught and he wasn't able to walk. He graduated, but he wasn't able to walk for the ceremony.
I guess the lesson there is don't bulk up. I'm gonna steal copyrights and IP.
I mean, the lesson is don't get caught. lessons don't get caught.
So let's let's talk about high school and your cousin loans. You have pair of Jordans. And they're up there. Yep. That's the pair right here yet, right? Okay, so can I bring them down yet? Or the Jordans? So she lends you this parachute. By the way, this doesn't look like it fit your feet. But maybe it's smaller. I mean, there's all our feet back then. Smaller
feet. But you know, when you're a kid he didn't didn't matter. You'd figured out how to get your foot in the shoe. You
figured out so talk about how cool it was to wear. I think these are 1985 og Jordan wants. Yep. And by the way, what would this cost now on stock X the find the men's hair?
I don't even know. Like I don't I'm not even into the sneaker reselling. I just love making stuff. So I know what my shoes cost. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe five to 15,000
Oh, way more. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think you're in the 50 plus range. Yeah, I'm
not sure. Okay, so 40,000
I don't know someone look it up for me. And so please. So there are gangs in your neighborhood, basically, and you couldn't wear certain cars at school. So talk to us about borrowing the shoe. And then associates? Well, yeah,
so in middle school, we weren't allowed to wear blue, red or yellow. They're all gang affiliated colors. So that's when I started wearing orange. I had to our my middle school crew was orange pride. We were orange. So I would, you know, find anything that was orange that I could wear a Sharpie. My dad is supreme is at the time orange. And then after Middle School in high school, I was you know, you're able to wear more, just not so. You know, in a certain
way. So I could still wear colors in high school.
You start out with a Sharpie? Yeah.
I mean, I started I was sharping shoes in middle school. You know, I just wanted something that was unique.
What was the feeling you had in the reception you had when you wore those shoes to school and talk about I think that's the feeling that I have when I wear videos and people stop me on the street. Hey, man, great kick. Yeah,
I think I mean, that's where those came from it I didn't even know how special those were my cousin and my cousin had the first release because she was older and she was a collegiate athlete. She did softball and so I was able to wear those and it was the same thing. It connected me with my friends that connected me with strangers with the older kids. And it was just cool. It felt good. So, but you can only
wear it once. You can't do it again, like once you wore it and like the feeling wasn't the same unless it was in a completely different atmosphere. So that's when I started getting Jordans early. I would, I worked in the mall, and we had the hook up where we'd figure out how to get the Jordans before they were released. And I wear those shoes before they anyone had them. And it was the same kind of feeling
like where'd you get those. And then all my friends had the same shoes for the most part, the cool hype ones. And we'd have to check in with each other to see what everyone was wearing that day because you didn't want to wear the same thing that your friend had.
So you change your closet around at some point you change your room around tell us about the closet that you built. And then also about your your prom talks and what I look like and why you made a camouflage. Yeah,
so I mean, a lot of people just think that shoes, I only did shoes. And I was again, like you said, doing things at a younger age that was repainting our bedroom, moving my bedroom around making a rotating closet, and I did screen printing embroidery, I was sewing T shirts in high school. My grandmother bought me this home sewing machine that I still have when I was it's probably 2002 And I was selling T shirts and you know even my my
prom tux. I made full camouflage that came from the Yeah, video with Usher and Little John. Camouflage.
Camouflage head, the army, the army camouflage. Yeah. So you went to a surplus store? Yeah,
I found the fact I actually found the fabric in Berkeley. At this fabric store. I got really lucky it was a really nice fabric and we put a nice satin stripe on the side like a nice prom or like a nice tux.
So one of the things I think that's important in being successful is to just think differently, not inside the box just to think wider. Also about the table, you and your dad or your dad built on your grandma's old dolls. And kind of what went into that did you just kind of walk in and say hey, we're gonna do some really cool.
My dad is probably one of the most creative persons I know. And when he was building the restaurant, he all the artwork was different and unique. And one of the tables he built was a poker table with the cards laid out all the way around. It was on the wall, and then it had the little these little doll hands holding the cards. So it was it was really funny, but it's just yeah, it was cool to see the way he did things even if I didn't think it was tasteful. But it was cool that he did it. And he
did it himself. He didn't he didn't wait for someone else and it wasn't perfect.
So when when I'll get my shoe and I got some sick Travis Scott's on. Kevin Vela, thank you for getting me these shoes, by the way, as a thank you gift. I would be afraid to touch the shoe. And I think that Nike brand is the swoosh. People know where this wishes? Yeah. So tell us about the first time you took it off. And you put it on the tongue. I mean, what, what's what's here without the stitching, it's white. You got to cover it up.
And then you put it on the tongue, I believe for your first real mash up of a pair of Nikes.
I don't recall my first night Nike, I mean, besides painting a pair in all camouflage in high school, but cutting it up. I mean, even before I was even putting them back together, I just started cutting a bunch of stuff up. So you know what people that would think that I've roomed a bunch of shoes. For me, that was my schooling. That's how I learned how to do stuff. And I've done so many things to different shoe
brands. And I've even merged shoe brands like for me, I just see it as a canvas that I get to create
when you started collecting shoes. Was it a hobby and when did it become more than a hobby and you remember the first few shoes you bought and you started putting things in the closet. I think
high school it was less. I mean, I don't know if it was a hobby yet at first it was more just I liked dressing up. I went to school so I can show my outfits off. I got best dressed in high school. So for me it was like what outfit that I have that day and the difference between me and a lot of my friends. I wear everything from DITA shell toes to Stan Smith to Rod lavars to timberland to sperrys to all
types of shoes and outfits. And then you know this, the sneakers were more of the hype stuff, but I liked dressing in all different ways.
When my son graduated high school, I want a nice watch. Farmer watch. I read your high school I got I think a coach leather briefcase. I mean, that's kind of weird to get in high school that I hit wasn't going to work or anything. Other people want a new car. Yeah. Tell everyone what what you wanted and what you got. And which is very, I think, yeah, unusual.
Ya know, a lot of my friends wanted trips to Cancun or Cabo and, you know, or got a car and I got, my grandmother bought me a home sewing machine.
Called a PS 1030.
This is the pack setter. I mean, I don't know what exactly it's called. But a Pacesetter, excuse me. It was, it was just, yeah, it was just a kid that wanted to use a sewing machine.
So I don't know the technical details. But that was a 13 stitch. Sewing Machine. Can you explain to people what what it is there are two stitches or a 50 stitch? What
does that mean? 13 stitch just means there's different types of stitches. So zigzags longer stitch, like there's so many different. And this was years ago now. So like the new ones, the whole, the home sewing machines now have so many settings that I, I don't even comprehend. And we don't even use that anymore, we have one
stitch. Like when you produce something like high level, you just need single needle, one stitch, you can do it, all of the double stitching on your shoe is done twice with a single needle.
I'm excited I go over here. Yeah, so I'll just see what kind of needle can punch through all this stuff. Because this is back. Yeah.
I mean to process making shoes is a process and we teach a lot of people and a lot of people will do it. And then they're like, fuck that. Because it's very hard to do. And that's why a lot of brands don't even have sneakers or shoes in it. Because so many things can go wrong. Every size is different, every last is different. The outsole cost a lot of money to open up with tip for you have your own and so there's a lot that goes
into shoemaking. And that's why I was so attracted to it because it was it was hard to do, and no one else was doing it. So
that's a good point, I think to share with people, a lot of people think alright, I'm just gonna go through the motion, and I'm going to just do what everybody else does. So how important is it in our success, to do what no one else is doing and to plod through and push through the things that are difficult that people don't want to do.
I mean, I'm, you know, there's no right or wrong way to do it. Everyone has a different path and if different journey. But for me, I just I started it for me, it wasn't for anyone else. And I wanted something that no one else had. And you know, now that I'm now I'm doing music, I'm doing clothing, I don't want to do what's out there, I wanted to do something different and unique that doesn't exist yet.
And I'm doing it for myself first and then you know, and then it will come and that's, you know, where I started this whole business. It was never for anyone except myself. I wanted to wear a pair of shoes that no one else had. And then soon as I did that then attracted other people like, oh, I want that. I want that. And that's, you know, I think it's about being niche and doing something for yourself. And, and again, no,
that's me, right? There's experiences that people start businesses specifically off dollars and cents and formulas and data and that works too. You know, there's no right or wrong way to do it other than just to do it.
Fantastic. I mean, we're filming the studio or film film this place. I mean, I've been to a lot of places this place is sick and I remember when I walked in the first time I was here for an event shout out to Mike ball and Sandy man for making the intro to Michael What are you doing in the music space? just exploring, creating every creating music? Yeah, both Korean singer
singing I could do anything. Yeah. You know, it's just about you know, practicing and doing it more and I'm just creating a sound that you know, when I'm when I build something, I want a full circle brand. I want it the set to be a certain way I want it to feel a certain way I wanted to sound a certain way. I wanted to feel sort of like seating you can touch and feel it a certain way. And so music is just a way of me exploring my creative
expression. How would you explain what kind of music
people ask me all the time? I don't even have a name for it yet. Some new job I didn't know it's just like some new age Lo Fi like Johnny Cash on like, Western type of I can't even explain it. It's just like, chill. Chill. Yeah, it's like you can you know you can play it in a hotel lobby. Or it can be in a fashion show.
Okay, it's got some homage to her it's not like a hotel lobby for your sleep.
It's Oh no, this Yeah, that's why I don't I I don't really know how to explain it.
Let's talk about branding and the importance of branding in a consumer product setting. Talk to us about your trip to New York. 18 years old and where your name came from.
Yeah, I was living in Charlotte, North Carolina. I was 18. And we, we drove to New York City. Just being on the East Coast, you could go to New York City, you go to Florida in one day. And when you lived in California, all you have is California, which was boring hill at times. So you're able to I drove to New York City, I ran into Pharrell Williams at the vape store, there was a Louis Vuitton party.
Hype Williams was there. I mean, it was just, it was just, I mean, anyone that's been to New York for the first time, it's just like, mind blowing, especially at 18 with a dream of being an, you know, an artist or a shoe maker, whatever I thought it was at the time. And I remember just after that run, and going up to the hotel room and starting to write down, like, what do I call this? What
do I call myself? What do I call this thing that I'm building, and I wrote down surgeon, and so she originally became the shoe surgeon. And, and it stuck. And then I think, a couple of years later, and moving back to Northern California, I had my tattoo artists designed the logo, which is the school with the scalpels as a and a mask
with blood on it. And so it's just like, Yeah, I had a brand, I had something that I could use and call myself and I don't think I thought too much of it at the time, but it was just like, yeah, you need, you need branding you need I mean, look at the best brands in the world, Apple, you know, or Nike, or that you have brands and logos you people need to remember people need to know what to call it. So you can just be like, Oh, this shoe maker, made shoes, you know what I mean? Like, there
needs to be more. So branding is important in any aspect. And I love marketing. I love branding. I love design, and it's all very important for a brand.
You tried junior college, you didn't like it? You moved to Charlotte to live with your grandmother, you did yard work for your uncle when you were there. Tell us about meeting a guy who made cleats for I think the Carolina Panthers. Yep. Super Bowl. Yeah.
So when I was living out there, I was just going out to all the malls and meeting people in the kiosk and just doing as much as I could to meet people. And I think that's what's different about me too, is like, I'll go up and talk to anyone, like, I don't care. Like, if I want to learn something I'll ask. And I've been cursed away many times, but I remember
walking through someone told you some point to fuck off your Oh, yeah. One of
the shoe repair guys told me to fuck off. And I may have been a little angry. But I was just confused. How can someone you know if I ask questions, how can someone just say fuck off like that. And so being in North Carolina, I was walking around the mall, and I saw this kiosk and this guy had shirts, and I think shoes that he was painting. And I went up to talk to him. And he's like, he told me that he made he painted the game cleats for the Carolina Panthers and out there
in the Super Bowl. 2004. So it was just, you know, I didn't care about football. I didn't care about sports, other than playing soccer. But for someone to tell you that they painted cleats for a Super Bowl. Like that was a big deal for me. And to hear that and to be like, Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, and then full circle. You know, I've made many cleats for Super Bowls and won Super Bowls and got
touchdowns. And it's not just paint, but it's just, you know, I think as a kid or person in general, the more you see, the more you'll you know, understand that you can go past that too. And that's why I teach to is in speak on everything so you can show and the faster you see something, the faster you can get through the next part.
I think one of the motivators that makes people successful is being challenged. Oh, that's really hard to do. And it was super simple. You know, we could all do it. Tell us about your job and niche market. And then someone challenged you on these size seven bands, shoes and why that was so difficult to do.
Yeah, when I was out in North Carolina, I would just in Charlotte, I would go to the different stores. There was a skate shop called Black Sheep across the street was niche market, which I have tattooed on me. And I went in there and I just said, Hey, I want to make a custom pair of shoes. And originally he was like, what are you gonna put rhinestones on Air Force ones and I said, Give me something about I'll do it. So he gave me a inexpensive pair that he most
likely would have sold. It was a size seven, all white vans chucka. And he gave them to me and no one bought size seven. So I gave you that, yeah, he probably gave me the shoe that he thought he wouldn't sell, right? So it gave it to me to do and I took his logo, I laser engraved it on leather, I brought it to a shoe repair shop, and I was 18 at the time, and they sewed a piece on it. And then I hand sewed some stuff. And I brought it back. And it was very progressive for
the time. And he was mind blown. And since then I did another pair for him. And this is just still my schooling. This is me, you know, putting myself through school. And that was like, a project, right? Like some of the tests to go to the next phase.
I also think it's important to be successful, have a plan and writing your goals down. And can you tell people out, buy your experience at borders, books and buying? I think the magazine was called sneaker freaker. Yep. And you wrote something down that you want to be the best at? Yeah, I
mean, you know, I was just consuming information, whether it was Nike talk on my dial up Internet back in the day, and just like finding as much information sneaker freaker was an amazing book, sneaker freaker is from Australia. And there was so much information in there, I just remember opening it up. And in the back there was all of these different custom shoes, right. And none of them was how I wanted, but it was still cool to see. And so yeah, that has just started writing everything down.
I used to work at a store in the mall called no fear. And I just remember having my own notebook and writing down everything. I bought my own laser machine, I want my own embroidery machine. Now I'm going to be the biggest, you know, customizer in the world. And I wrote all this stuff down and then I mean,
and now we're here. So at some point, your size, some shoes, I think I know fair, you were making some money if while you were the assistant manager, and tell everyone how much we're making, for pursuing you putting them up on the shell.
I mean, nah, so I was just bringing shoes in just to display them, right. Like, I'm just trying to get my stuff out there. And I would always talking about my stuff. And so I wasn't supposed to do that. But I did it anyway, you know, I was supposed to be selling their product, which was $20 T shirts. And I just brought my stuff up to display. And I didn't think I was selling my
work at the time. And it was custom made order wasn't like I made something and then I sold it, it was more like, this is what I can do, I can do something custom for you. There's like 100 bucks, 150 bucks, I used to give away so many pairs of shoes. And you know, it's hard. It was hard. And it wasn't even about the money at first, but it was like just to you know, just to start
off, let's talk about starting a business. And I think my kids when they start growing, because they're going to come to me for a while. And depending on what they do, and we do some research on this, my son just bought a watch. For example, as you know, the watch market sort of like a shoe market, you're likely to get one ask his saying you got to get in line. And as a friend who's bought a lot of washing or particular brand, and he got the shoot in the wash. It was a very
expensive watch. I'm not gonna say on camera, but it was very expensive. And I did the research and I said, Alright, he can flip this watch like that and make $30,000 in a day. As long as he has to hold a watch for a year, but you can sell finally, you know, again, so talk to us about why you asked your parents while you're at your dad for that loan. And what he made you do to get the loan? Yeah, my dad,
my parents just sold a house right before the market crashed. And so they had some cash sitting in the bank and, you know, had this idea of doing this career, whatever was at that time. And my dad said, how can you know, what can I help you with? Like, what do you need? What do you want? Like, what do you will need to help you? And so I said,
I'm not sure. And so we started just poking our heads around and we went to a shoe repair shop and Daryl Fazio was, he said, This is the machine you should get because I said I want to sell on top of shoes and I want to you know, make our on top of shoes. I want to make them look differently. And he said this is what you should get. And it was $3,500 That's a lot of money. Still a lot of money. That machine now is worth double that. But yeah, my dad was like, well, you need to write a
business plan. And I'm like, Well, what the fuck some business plan because, you know, I was a creative kid. Like, I wasn't into numbers. I wasn't into, you know, business in that standpoint. I knew marketing. I knew how to get I knew how to get my stuff, the stuff out there, but I didn't understand the other side. And so I've made me went on Ask Jeeves at the time and like Google searched, you know how to write a business
plan. And so I did as best as I could, and definitely didn't have a lot of the numbers in there. But all the other stuff looked good. So I ended up, you know, doing the business plan and giving it to him. And, you know, he loaned me the money for this machine.
Yeah, man, interesting guy along the way, as well, who did give you some financial advice? Can you talk a bit about why Yeah, I
think, you know, coming from small town, I ran into guy for Yeti, who became a mentor, in many ways, and it was just as a kid from a small town, seeing someone come out of the, out of the town with their talents and on TV, or whatever it was, was cool to see an interesting. So I ran into him on my 21st birthday. And I said, Hey, can I send you this business plan? Because I told him the idea. And I said, I want
to share it with you. And so I emailed it to him, and he emailed me back right away, and said, it looks good. But the numbers side doesn't really look too good. But so we stayed in contact a little bit. And yeah, it was just cool to be able to share something like that, especially at an age so young, to like, share that with someone and someone gives you feedback, especially, you know, that he was, you know, the beginning of his career, being on TV and really blowing up.
So you mentioned the word mentor, I mentor is a very important talk about Michael current Akshay and then girl Fazio and the influence they had on your life and talk to people on the importance of not just saying, We you mentor me, but earning the mentorship?
Yeah, I mean, you have to do the work to to be a mentor mentary like, you need to prove to them that you're you take it serious, right. And so for Michael Anthony was a Western bootmaker still is he's up there. And I never learned how to make boots from him. But I got to just see how passionate he was and how well he made boots and how he did and how I
use exotic skins. And even with him was a lot of more spiritual journey stuff with him to just speaking on, you know, the mental health and stuff that we dealt with. And then Darrell Fazio was a shoe repair that will let was that knew the business that pumped out shoes that got the work done, but it was more it was repair focus. So I got to piece apart different mentors in my life. And you know, gave them my time and gave them energy from from what I provided, and they gave it as
well. So, I mean, every I believe every human should have a mentor, every human should have a coach in different facets to right like, you know, you couldn't be you know, Kobe had coaches, LeBron has coaches, everyone has coaches. So you know, whether it's mental health or physical or training or business, you should always have coaches. And if you know, if your therapist is no therapist, then there's something wrong.
A lot of people walk into the store, ask for something or walk into a job. They say no, and then that's it. All right. I think preparing and persist is more important than any other step of preparation. I teach preparation. We're talking about preparation in a minute to talk about how long it took you to actually get one of these apprenticeships, for lack of a better word, because you didn't just walk away and say I'm done. Yeah. You came back the
next day. The first shoe repair guy went to was the one that crushed me away. I just went in there asking questions like what are these machines? Do I want to learn more because I visited a shoe repair shop in North Carolina. And then he cursed me away same day, I went to another place, started talking to him. He was so busy if you've been in a shoe repair shop. It's not very glamorous. The guy was smoking a cigarette putting glue on shoes, and he was just had up to his head and shoes and smell
of bail. Oh, it's just I mean, it. Yeah, most of them. So he was able to listen to me, but he didn't really there was not much more there. So the same day I went to another shoe repair. That's when I met Daryl Fazio. The same time I was like, hey, I want to learn from you. And he said no. He said no. Right away. He said you could be a liability. And I said, alright, but the next day I would, you know, go back and just keep
watching. Because I was I wanted to learn and then eventually, he saw how serious I was just want to learn he said Alright, come check it out. And so then I started selling and fixing purses and bags and started learning on my machine at home and just kept doing stuff and That's how I learned to use the machine was by repairing stuff.
At some point and move back home, you started the business in your parent's garage, you're giving away free stuff, you're selling pair for $100 here and there, then you got a job selling supplements and things went very soft, very quick man. And I think it's very important to people listening and watching the show, we've all struggled bill, I've had guests on the show who are sentenced to life sentences in jail. And now one of the best speakers in the world. Damon West, shout out to
them. And so I think telling your story, and some of these struggles will be helpful for people. So So what can you tell us about what you were doing to make Barney?
I mean, I was working at a gym, and I would also steal a lot of supplements to sell them on, however I could. I would take just about anything that I could sell. And that was, you know, something that ate at me for the longest time and was very unhealthy, mentally, and physically, but mentally and ended up. Yeah, and I'm in a very negative place because of it went to jail. I mean, I've been to jail a few times and ended up in the mental hospital a few times.
So at some point, you move into a two bedroom house with four of your friends, you're partying or drinking, or making some very cool shoes. Why don't you talk to us about your big break? Well, I am just then having to produce all these shoes. And then sometimes your biggest break is great. But then there's also a big downside to that as well.
Yeah, I mean, so I made another mentor through Facebook. Javier Laval who was a shoe designer,
you reach out to some random guy, yeah, just reached out.
I mean, that's what I did. I mean, I had some work to prove who I was like, that I was interested. You know, like, I knew how to market myself in a way of like, oh, look, these shoes. I did, or, you know, I'm interested in this. And so I reached out to Javier and we just started talking on Facebook. And then eventually, I don't know if a year goes by, and he says, Hey, are you able to make a pair of shoes for the VMAs? For will? I am and I said, Sure. And so, I mean, I didn't finish them until
the night before. But, you know, that was the way I worked. And I went came down and delivered them to him in LA. And that's when the same time I got introduced to Justin Bieber stylist. And then the same time I got, I was making shoes for H Lorenzo, the fashion boutique and also Law and Order SVU emailed me to make some shoes for the show. Show was about you. I mean, I mean, it's about the pair of shoes by the shoe.
Yeah, it wasn't about me. It was it was about, you know, this player in the in the show, you know, had his own shoe line that was about to come out. And the manager had him on and you got to watch the show for the rest. But like, you know, the shoe played the play the main role on the evidence of what happened. So
one month, your first big baggy made 15k. Yeah. What do you do with the money?
I eat good, old guy like that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. When you know, when, you know, for a big amount of money. It's at a young age, like, you know, you just think or for me, it just thought it was going to continue to come. And that was, you know, sad and depressing for sure.
So, Justin Bieber comes in last 20 parachutes for the tour. You got to make them very, very quickly. Your mental health is not good. You're doing drugs. What prompted you to jump out for a window of a second story of a building? onto concrete? Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I made a lot of shoes for Justin Bieber. And then he was going on so many tours. So they asked me to do 20 pairs and, you know, I think it was in a week or something. And I said, Yes, of course, because I thought anything was possible. And again, I wasn't being kind to myself. I was not eating healthy. I was not exercising. I was not. And then I was on drugs. I was on everything from steroids to out drinking regularly to smoking weed to doing cocaine.
Every day, oh,
not every day. You know, not every day it would be like, you know, the weekend I'd go out and party. But definitely, you know, and then when when that stuff happened, you know, so I was caught up in stress and, and I don't know if you know much about, you know, psychotic episodes or mania. I got caught in an in a manic episode. It was just my brain went on this loop. And it was, it was, I didn't know what it was at the time.
And it was really scary. And it was in and out every like it was about a week where it was continuing to happen, I'd wake up and be okay. And then, you know, a few hours later it went it and I didn't know what it was, and no one listened to me. I said, Hey, I need help. And they're just like, Yo, you're fine, you'll be fine. And so I was in my two storey house, and I was going up and down the stairs, and eventually I barely
remember it. But I jumped right through glass around my girlfriend at the time, right through the glass landed on the concrete, and then got ended up going to the hospital. And that's when they diagnosed me bipolar.
Where you're misdiagnosed with bipolar?
I mean, they Yeah, I would say so. And then they put you on all kinds
of drugs. Yeah. Which saved you. Yeah. And then it hurt you as well talk to us about kind of the slip there and how drugs can actually stifle creativity, which was your which was your calling? Yeah,
I think, you know, Western medicine is beautiful for many things. And I think it's needed for a lot of things. I don't think it needs to be something forever. And there's also some things that are out there that yeah, you may need them. But in my case, or anyone's case for, or not anyone, but for a lot of cases you don't, it's like there's other ways to be healthy, to, to, to break through where you don't need a western medicine.
So yeah, that these, this medicine helped me come down from the super high that I was at which I needed, but then to be on them, and then to continue that, which they once said forever. That's very depressing. And in you're very slow, and you're lethargic. And you're, you feel like a zombie. So what I wasn't able to be my creative self. And so now it's like about that it's finding that balance.
And you went back out again, yeah, ended up you know, getting off the drugs completely then going out partying, drinking and doing cocaine when I was out. But, you know, ultimately, I was trying to find myself through this journey.
And one of the having kids that kind of woke you up and said, Hey, I gotta get clean. And I ended up I know,
it was more, my girlfriend at the time, helped me believe that I didn't need to be on these pills. And how we believed that I wasn't bipolar. And because you know, when you're young, and you're when you feel like that you don't know who to who to believe. And you know, you believe a doctor, because they went to school for so long. And my mom didn't know any better, she believed the doctor too. And so the doctor said, you had to be on these pills for the rest of your life. And that's hard to
hear. And so as I started getting healthy, in, you know, my, my mentor, Javier Laval and Michael Anthony, they all played an important role to help me through that time as well mentally into how to talk to
myself. And I also started getting lost in self help on on YouTube at the time, and, you know, listening to Alan Watts to Jim Carrey to all types of the power of the now really diving in, and that was me doing my own research and learning more and more about stuff, you know, the secret and the notebook, like all of these things that I just dove into and just learned more and more. And then just being
healthy. I started walking, I started playing soccer, I started going to whole foods and eating completely healthier, and my whole and then I started Chinese herbs instead of the pills, and then it just my whole life started to shift during that time.
I do a lot of paid coaching. And I have this guy in Grand Rapids, Michigan, who very impressive guy, pediatric dentists, as a good business where they can 500k a year DMA love my show and and basically wanted me to help him plan his future. So he was going to have a partner to open up his new business and we went through all the numbers in the map. I said, you don't need a partner. I think a lot of people want a partner for the the psychological support of not being on their own. You know,
they're kind of fearful. I said, Yeah, you don't need a partner. Some people do some don't. You had a partner that didn't work out. And now you have a partner who's really helped you grow your business. You said seven years ago, tell us about Dallas and what you've gone through together?
Yeah, I mean, I was building so much by myself, and slowly building the team and having a small team and then being pulled in so many directions, flying to New York to do events like, you know, doing classes already. So, I, and I already had my first kid come, so my son Emile was born. So, you know, I knew the business was bigger than myself. And so eventually, I had a client, Dallas, who was ordering some shoes for me, and I got to see him build other businesses.
And one of the things that stuck out most for me was just the one of his business one, the best place to work out in Orange County. And like, that's, for me is the biggest thing is making sure staff feels like family, and they feel good to be working right. And then yeah, you helped out for a long time before we decided to go into business together.
Social media has been a huge part of your success. You said you couldn't even be successful without Instagram and Pay Pal. Talk us about why.
I mean, it was just the time it was the right time in the right moment. I mean, I wouldn't be successful, still in some other way. But like, we don't know that social media was happening, Instagram was happening, it was a way for me to physically get my art in the world, and people can actually see it, and then they can buy it or even just see it right and built is it's, you know, it's free marketing. In the sense. We've
talked about some of the things that make people successful mentor, being persistent, being creative being different. What are three other elements of success that it would take to build a successful business? Like your I mean,
like mine delusion, you need needs to be delusional, for sure. And I would say delusion, like, if most everything I have was never like, no one could ever imagine that. So and you can't tell anyone, either. You just got to do it, and then show it and do it again. And again. And again. So I would say being delusional, I would say, being consistent, because that's one of the that's the hardest thing. So many people come and like, tell me they have an idea. And I'm so sick of hearing people with
ideas. Because if you can't execute an idea, it's not worth nothing. Right? And then if you execute the idea, it has to be consistent. That's the hardest thing. So delusional consistency. And yeah, never saying no. I guess that's kind of delusional, in a way, but
you said no, to a lot of clients who come to you for shoes. Yeah. You just said, well, never say no, but you've said no. Why do you say no to people who come in and said no, not gonna do that?
That's what I mean by not never saying no. Is is more so? Not taking no for an answer for me? Not taking no for an answer for me. Right. So like being delusional in the sense of like, I never took no for an answer. So yeah, for and then separately, I think, not are saying no to clients is like, we don't need to work with everyone. I don't want to work with people that I don't want to work with. And at this stage of my life, I get to say, No, I don't want to work with
everyone. It's not about, you know, the masses. It's about, you know, life's too short. I want to work with good people. And I will only want to, you know, grow and work with people that respect. Me, my, my team in the business. And, yeah, it's less about just the money. And it's more about building something bigger.
Let's talk about STN Academy. So you've referred a little bit to that. But tell everyone what it is and what your mission there.
Yeah, SRG and Academy is our Surgeon Academy where we teach everything from introductory shoe workshops, how to customize, slightly customize a shoe to then fully deconstruct a shoe and rebuild it, which is a four day class. And it's just a way to to get people to be creative and get into shoes. And you know, people take the class and build other businesses out of it that has nothing to do
with building a shoe. And then I've also taught, you know, some of the students that now build shoes and sell shoes, and then some that build their own classes and now have classes and it's just a way for me to give to catapult someone to keep going to doing something walk
around this place, which is incredible. And everyone's happy here. And I think one of the things is I Um, you're going to a really nice setting the offices, beautiful wall design, it's got everything here that people would love to work. Tell us about the Li, and why you built a basketball court here, which, by the way, apparently is the place to be you get all kinds of Yeah, interesting people, former players, you know, rappers like Simba, I saw him posting, Hey, Tim, I'm gonna go. It'd be the
shoe surgeon. It's like, it's like, man, that's still.
I just always wanted a place where you could, you know, work in play. And, you know, with the work that I do is play, but also, you know, whether it's basketball or soccer, it's a way you can just go. Sport was big for me growing up, I played basketball till High School, and then I stuck with soccer more, and I was very competitive in soccer, I ran
track. And so it was important for me, and so like to have, and then to go through my mental health journey, and how important it is to be active, how important that is for your mental health. So I wanted to create a place where you can, you know, this used to be the full facility. So if you were at lunch every day, we would used to play five on five soccer against the whole staff. And that was one of the funnest times. I mean, people got hurt,
which I had to be careful. But like, it was the funnest time because you can go just not think about work or anything other than let's just go have fun and win.
Let's talk about how much these shoes cost. And first, I want to go to the all time record for a shoe. Sotheby's auction off Jordan 13 That it wore, I think that 2000 And actually the 1998 NBA Finals against a new job, Utah Jazz $2.2 million for that pair of shoe. The most expensive pair of shoe you ever made was for PJ Tucker $250,000. What are the shoe costs for people that want to go on your website?
Yeah, the shoes are anywhere from 5000 to 15,000. And it's just it's not enough, right? Like, there's no amount of money that someone could give me that is worth what I've been able to create my entire life. And it's wearable art. It's like collecting art, right? Like, it's, you know, ended the quarter million dollar shoe, and now we're working on a $4 million shoe. And he
talks about that shoe.
I mean, it's just it was four or I, I'm gonna build it, and then it's gonna sell stop for anyone. I just, that's what I do, I build a concept. And then he figures out
how to sell it. What goes into a $4 million shoe. I
mean, there'll be some some American alligator and diamonds and some controls that you can control from your phone.
Alright, we're getting towards the end of the show. And I want to talk about something very important. That may be the last day what is the highlight of your career, and it's some ad money. It's giving back. So talk to us about what you're doing to give back and how important it is to for us all to focus on our mental health, which has long been neglected by for way too long. Yeah, no, I
think, you know, the simple give back was it for me, it was always, you know, if I had excess of stuff, giving it away, I mean, even to this day, I get so many things that now I bring it to staff and give it because you only have so much stuff. And I've come to this realization in the last four years. That like really having no attachments to anything, I can figure it out and move forward through no
matter what happens. But, you know, I used to all of the uppers that we used to take apart, I would put other souls on him and we would go around Skid Row and all the way around and give shoes aways and people that needed the shoes and and now it's even just about the classes and the workshop and giving that and you know, doing things in a way that you're
helping people. And so when you come take a class, it's less about just the shoemaking and also my story, and all of the things that I overcame, and a lot. Every human, you know, is deals with mental health. It's not like it's new, it's just a better, how do you talk on it? And how do you get through it? It's through with it, right? And I'm grateful that I'm vulnerable and I'm able to be able to share it because it doesn't define who
I am. And I've been I've had a very wild shitty crazy past that most came from myself. And I didn't know that and to get through the other side and to keep moving forward is important. So to be able to share that and to share with us The story and the journey and also how I look at it now, it helps. You know, not only myself, but it helps other people get through, I
always end my show with a game called fill in the blank to excellence, you're a boy, fill
in the blank of excellent to excellent. Fill in the blank to excellence.
The biggest lesson I've learned in my life is never give up. A number one professional goal
is enjoy life, because that's professional too.
My number one personal goal is
to cover Men's Health right now,
the best moment of my career is showing my kids all of this my biggest regret if
it's a tough one. I don't believe in regrets. being kinder to myself sooner, I wouldn't know what I don't know now. But like, you know, if you could go back and, you know, learning this faster, but it's like, I had to learn it at the pace that I learned it.
My biggest fear is it's
changed over the years. What is it now,
the craziest thing that's happened in my career is
jumping out of window was this sticks out for me? If
you could go back in time, and give your 21 year old self one piece of advice, what would it be?
They would just say I love you. Give yourself that love that. Most of us don't give ourselves we're so hard on ourselves. And no one teaches us that if you're softer with yourself even that earlier age, like for me, I went through very hard mental times with then happened with drugs and everything else. But like, if I would have been kinder to myself, I mean, even even recently, it's like it's so easy to get caught up in the details and what went wrong instead of
what went right. So, being kind to yourself,
if you give me one person in the world, who would it be? meet one person in the world meet one person that we're all
alive or dead?
Let's go with both
Abraham Lincoln alive who and meet? Have no idea. I have no clue who I want to meet right now.
What's the one question you wish I'd asked you, but didn't ask you.
What drives you?
What drives you think it's a
mix of things. The older I get and the more things in my children. It's a mix between me proving myself still. And my art and showing myself that I can do anything. And showing my children I can do anything as well.
As money drive you when when we met few weeks ago, you told me some numbers. We're not going to share them on camera right now.
Yeah, I mean, I think you know, what I've learned and money was the hardest thing for me. I mean, it's still not easy, but it's it's energy at the end of the day. You know, a friend of mine years ago, said just look at it, like energy exchange, right? Like I'm building a shoe, it takes me my energy and
everything. And a person may work a job or do whatever, but they get this money that they had to, you know, to exchange their energy for and it's able to exchange it so he had to say money doesn't drive me at all that would be false. But I don't look at it like dollars and cents and I don't do it for you know, just the money. It's for fulfilling something and and showing my art to the world.
I've enjoyed the interview. I've enjoyed getting to know you. I love meeting you weeks ago and as I said, I've been a fan for years. And the opportunity to come and meet in person was super, super pumped about it. You're amazing guy have a great story. Congrats on all your success. I think it's incredible. So yeah, more and more in the future.
It was good to meet you and thanks for coming by and having me on the show that we got to do it in my studio.