Rodney Jerkins: Strive For Perfection And Be Beyond Prepared | E54

internship and Teddy Riley. And he said to you in one of your sessions that he wants you to be Michael Jackson. And Michael Jackson was the guy you were listening to at a mall in Canton, Ohio, that lit you on fire. And here you are. Less than 10 years later, you've got a king in the music business telling you you want to He wants you to meet Michael Jackson.

Fan, you get a call to come over to Carole Bayer Sager, who was married to Bob Bailey, I think at the time the chairman of Warner Brothers, and to come on over Michaels here and he wants to meet you. Walk us through what on earth you're thinking when someone says I want to introduce you to Michael Jackson. And what are you thinking when you meet him and you're pulling up to Carol's house, knowing he's there to meet you and possibly work with

you? The biggest superstar in the world, perhaps ever at that point in time?

reality kicks in. And all I know is one day Teddy says, Everybody pack up. We have to go to New York. And it was three quest vans outside the studio. I didn't know what was going on to be completely honest. We never went anywhere before. And all I know is Teddy said, I want you to be in a van with me. So I was in the van with him and his driver. And then his brothers and other people were in other vans. And we're going to New York, and the whole time from

Virginia Beach to New York. All Teddy played was Michael Jackson. I'm in the backseat. And I'm starting to think, oh, wow, we're born in New York, because of Michael Jackson, because I had been around Teddy so much as an intern. And I knew that whenever he was going to work on a project, he studied the person music right before it was time to work with them. And so he was listening and it really intense ears the whole way in the middle of night going

to going to New York. When we got to New York, we checked into the hotel. I went to my room, it was like two o'clock in the morning. And next thing you know, the phone rings in the room. And Teddy says, because we little bro, little bro, come down to the lobby. Some like I'm tired, I want to go sleep, come down and lobbying. And he goes, we gotta go to the studio. And we go down the street to the Hit Factory. And next thing, you know, walked into the studio and

there was Michael Jackson. And Ted, he introduced me to Michael Jackson, who said, you're going to work with this kid someday. And Michael kind of giggled, like, you know, his little soft laugh. And I was like, Yeah, I'm going to work with you someday, Michael, I'm gonna work with you someday. And I was in awe. Like, it was just a crazy moment. And that was it. And that was in I went back to the hotel. And we stayed in New York for like two weeks. And Teddy was working

with Michael. And I was in another room working on other projects for Teddy. And that was it. So Michael one time and that was it. Fast forward a few years later, I met my parents home the home that I bought them. I fell asleep on my mother's couch. And I had this dream that I was pulling up to a studio. And it was all glass. In in the glass was this guy with the red shirt on and a derby hat. And it was

Michael Jackson. I woke up and I told my mother and father this dream I said I just had this dream that Michael Jackson was in the glass in the window of the studio and I was pulling up to work with him. And it was so vivid and so real. Not much after that not much longer the phone rings in this lady Carole Bayer Sager is on the phone. And she's calling me because at that time I had the biggest song out. It was saying my name my destiny shop. And she says, Is this

Rodney? Jerkins? I say, Yeah, I didn't even know she was to be completely honest. Like I heard her name, but I didn't know the song she wrote with Burt Bacharach and reach out and touch someone's hand, you know, you know, all these great songs, classic songs. And we started talking, and she says, I want you to come to my house and work with me and Michael Jackson. And I'm like, I'm choked up. I'm like, what, I just had this dream. This is this can't be

real, but it is real. As I said, when when and she goes, I don't know yet. But, um, once I talked to Michael, I'll let you know. And Randall, I jumped on a plane immediately. I checked myself into a hotel. And I just stayed in a hotel, patiently waiting for her to call me and let me know when we were going to work. And a few days later, she called me and she goes, Do you think you can work come out here fly out here tomorrow? And I said,

I'm already here. I might, she said, I said, I'm already here. And she said, Okay, well, tomorrow, we're going to have a session that come to my house at noon. And so she gave her address. And as I'm going to Prodrive way, she has this guest house to the left, which is a studio, and through the glass, I see a red shirt. Just like the dream I had four days before that. It was Michael Jackson.

And I went in their house. And I met Michael again, I told him that I had seen God, I met him with Teddy rally, I started playing the piano form. And we started creating. So that day, that was in February of 1999.

and the rhythms. You know, there will be he would, he would literally have to I would have to order I would have to order several Hanes T shirts for every session, because he would dance so intensely in the booth that he was sweat out the shirt. Literally sweat out the shirt, and I would have to have other shirts ready for him. So he would literally change it to another shirt. Keep recording

sweat out that shirt. That's how intense is ethic his work ethic was, you know, not just him being at the hotel three o'clock in the morning for rehearsals, but him calling me at four o'clock in the morning. Asking to hear what I worked on during the day. I mean, it was like nonstop three, four o'clock in the morning, play what you worked on today. And I'm like, Really, Michael? Really? Can you really hear this all over the

phone? He said play it. And I'm playing it over the phone and he would tell me to turn a hi hat down to DBS. Turn the snare at one dB over the phone. He's telling me this. It blew my mind. I never. And he was always right. That was the other part about working with him. He was always right. Like it wasn't like he was just saying it. He actually really felt like the hi hat should come down to DBS and the snares to come up. And it was always right. He was like

right on point. It was just a magical experience for me like to work with him. In those years, we worked together for a good two and a half to three years straight. And it was beautiful. Like I spent a lot of time with him and flew flew with him and worked at several studios got a chance to hang out at Neverland and hang out with his family and just just just a great it's one of the greatest, greatest moments of my life. Greatest greatest memories I've

ever made in my life. I was working with Michael for sure. Sure

miles and miles of property. And we're riding in it starting to get late. And we're way up in the mountains. And I said to Michael, I said, I think we should turn around. Michael really didn't keep track of time. And I said, I think we should turn around like I could tell it's getting late. And we're far away on the I don't even know where we are, to be honest, this trail. And so as we went to go turn around, Michael's will on his phone will

call Iraq, like a rock. And literally, in one second, his four wheeler was leaning over this cliff. And I got I got off of my my foot wall, and I grabbed him. And my brother grabbed the full his four wheeler. And we're all looking down. And all we saw was a cliff down. And Michael said, Oh, Rod, you said you saved my life, you

saved my life. It's true. If if he would have just moved one inch hit the wall literally would have been off over that hole out that that cliff, he literally went over that cliff. And so that was a craziest, one of the craziest moments that

I've ever experienced. But also, he built some type of bar between him and I because after that I felt like a relationship with to a completely different level, the trust factor and just the loyalty factor of our relationship went to a just an incredible level after that moment,

be around other kids. Like almost like a hospital room, but in the theater to watch their favorite movie. So I was around him and I saw the heart that he had for people and how giving he was and would have conversations, you know, when when things will pop up on the news, I would actually see him cry. And he would actually say, look how look how look at the monster they're trying to portray me as the COO they want me to become that's not who I

am. And they know it and I know it and and I will sit back and I knew it too. And I'll be like, Wow, this is crazy. Like the picture they were trying to paint to everyone and I was there the whole time with them. And learning so much from this guy and seeing the kind of person he was guy would literally give literally would give the shoes and shirt off give the shirt off his back shoes off his feet to anybody. I mean the most giving probably be given purse most given person

I've ever met. never wanted to hurt anybody never wanted to hurt a child ever was just a kind person that really cared about humanity as a whole. And in a time where people wrote songs about dancing, and people wrote songs about love. If you really love Michael was writing songs about humanity. He was writing songs like man in the mirror, look at yourself. He's writing songs about heal the

world. He's writing songs like Earth Song, he was writing songs like the last children and writing songs called spaceless writing songs called um, we are the world like this guy was writing songs that no one else was writing. He was writing songs about humanity because I really believe he sincerely wanted the earth to be a better place. And he believed that, you know, it started with, you know, children, and, and us being you know, having the heart, the heart of children, the innocent

heart of children. So it hurt me when he was going through all of those allegations. In fact, in 2003, Michael called myself and my father and Acts where we were, and we just so happened to be in a studio in Los Altos. This Chris Tucker, who was a friend of mine just happened to be there. And Michael said that he wanted prayer because he was on trial. And he drove all the way from Neverland all the way down in Los Angeles, which was like a two hour plus drive, just

just for us to pray for him. And you know, and my dad, and I and Chris Sacca, we prayed for him, and we just prayed, prayed and prayed and prayed that God would give him the strength and give him peace through those, whatever, you know, he was going through at that time. It was wearing, he was wearing him out wearing them down, but we, you know, we believe that God would give him strength in. And so yeah, I'm so very uncomfortable.

But I always knew in my heart of hearts that he was, you know, innocent and, and I stand by that statement. And, you know, I believe that

band. But that little kid is amazing. He's my age, what he's doing. We've talked about Michael's work ethic. And I don't think a lot of people would know that at three in the morning, he's got his whole dance team in his hotel suite, working out songs and choreographing at three in the

morning. One thing that has led to some of my success is something I call the extreme preparation is preparing more than everybody else in the room being the most prepared person in the room where someone spends five hours for something, I may spend 40 hours for something. Can you tell us some examples of extreme preparation in your career? And how are you preparing everybody else and maybe give some specifics on that. And then I also want to talk about your thoughts on Beyonce, and Lady Gaga.

going to happen. When I was working with Michael, I think that's why he liked working with me so much because I was beyond prepared for him. When I got that call officially after I met him at Carroll bears, and he said, I want you to come work with me. In LA, he said, What do

you need? And I told him and my aim, why should we talk about this to this day, I will spend days months just on sound design alone, just on sound design, preparing for whatever, you know, whatever I think the next quarter or the next year, looks like in my eyes and music, I will spend so much time and all my all my protegees notice about me, I will spend just just getting the right sounds

together for projects. I believe I believe in being overly prepared for whatever you want to work, whatever artists you want to work for. Because to me, it's the way my job is to. Whoever I work without my job is to take them to the next level. If they're already at a huge level, they need to go further. If they're new artists, we need to get them out and become stars and superstars. So in order for that to happen, first I need to study I need to study and I need to know who it is that I'm

creating for. I want to know everything about them. Not just their singing ability or their performance ability. But I want to know everything about them their life and what's going on in their life. And then I want to and then I want to be able to prepare for when that time comes and be ready to just walk in and deliver what I know is the best version of me for them. So I agree I'm with you. 200% I'm always overly prepared for for whatever it is whatever presents a presentation that I have to

make. In fact, I'm sometimes too prepared. Because you know I You know, I played 60 tracks for Michael, when I met with him. He said, No one has ever walked in a room and played that many tracks for me, I was beyond prepared for to work with Michael.

that you're prepared. And whether you achieve a successful outcome at that specific moment or not, the probability you do is going to be substantially higher if you do but that person, it may not happen that exact moment, that person is going to remember you for the rest of their life. And you're going to get another app at some point, either because they're going to proactively reach out to you or you're going to come back and have another bite of

that apple. And I've been coaching this and preaching this. And it usually falls on deaf errors. But it has 100% success rate long term, you can easily be the most prepared person that someone has ever met. That's right, you could just stop the 30 songs, right, you could have stopped at 40. What is the average person do? And in that situation? You're going to meet with someone who's great. It could be Michael or Rihanna or someone who's not

frankly. But how many songs are people preparing when they go in for a meeting like that? On average?

everything must look like. I remember working with her on the song called deja vu that I did with her and Jay Z. And I remember her talking to the directors, and they were coming to the studio and her explaining her vision and to these people, and what kind of clothes she wanted to wear and everything like she just was really hands on, about how it's how it had to look how the visuals had to be.

I just think that you know, every once in a generation, an artist comes around and has a different type of passion to want to be so much greater than even the artists that they looked up to. Right. It's not just about making it any more. It's not just about getting a record deal. But it's actually achieving something so much greater. So it's if it's, if it's, if it's Michael Jackson saying I looked up to James Brown, and I need to be better

than James Brown. Right? If it's Beyonce sin, I looked up to Aretha Franklin, I don't know, whoever her person was, I need to be better than that. And I need to reach these goals. So I saw a lot of similarities between Beyonce and Michael saw a lot, a lot of similarities. And it was just amazing. She was

amazing. She's amazing artists to work with just amazing like because the one thing you know, when you work with someone like Michael Jackson or Beyonce, you know that they would deliver the performance of the song, right? You're not just doing a song In the performance is going to fall flat, you can always bet the house on it, that their performance. If they perform it live on the Grammys, or visual or whatever it was going to be

incredible. It's going to be a movie, a video wouldn't just be a normal video, it would be like a movie, the performance would be like, Whoa, mind boggling performance. You just know that you just know that with those with those type of artists.

practice every morning. He said, I used to get there like 630. And I'll stay there till like 830. And Michael said, you should be getting every now 330 And staying to 930. He said you can't become best just practicing two hours. You need to practice you need to be the first one to get there. And the last one to leave. You need to be overly prepared for battle. And Kobe said when he when he heard that from Michael, he he got to the gym at three the next morning. And he stayed to nine

o'clock. And he said that, you know, he was he would prepare Michael told them to do the one move that he wanted to master for six hours straight. Don't worry about doing a bunch of different moves. He said I practiced the moonwalk for six hours straight until I mastered it. Whatever shot you want to shoot that you want to take mastery. Beyonce was the same way. Same exact way. Were her hustles you know, the first one, they're less elite type of ad the attitude, the same

mentality. I call it the killer instinct, right? The ability to just outwork anybody, when you when you when you're ready and you're willing to outwork anyone on your, your own team, on your own team, not just to competitors, but the ones on your own team. Right if you're out working them and you know, you know, even with the success, she was still out working

everybody. She was still spending hours and hours and hours and hours in the studio, and hours and hours and hours and hours at the rehearsal studio. I mean, she was preparing food she is now every since she was a little girl her father had preparing as a young girl for these moments that we are now seeing now.

home and abroad. And to make sure you're never disappointed by a beach visit again. Plan the perfect beach trip today by visiting sandy.com That's www.sand.com the link is in our show notes. Stay Sandy, my friends. Are you looking for your next great gift to surprise a friend colleague or loved one bliss beaches makes the perfect gift. This best selling bright and beautiful coffee table book by Randall Kaplan features stunning drone photography from exotic beach locations around

the world. It's the perfect housewarming gift a great addition to any home or office. And a fun and creative alternative to bringing a bottle of wine to somebody's house for dinner. Bliss beaches is available for purchase on Amazon, where it has glowing reviews and a five star rating. Get your next amazing gift and order a copy of bliss speeches by clicking the link in our show notes. You mentioned something called first in last out I've been calling this Philo for the

last 20 years. And it is a very simple concept that if anybody does it is going to lead to great success in their career. You're the first person and you're the last person to leave and you're putting in the hours. Great things are going to happen to I think your your career so fascinating. I mean, I'm sitting back. I love music. I thought kind of love to hang out with Michael, I'd love to hang out with Beyonce and Lady Gaga. I'd love to meet them someday I'd love to just go have a beer with

them or have dinner with them. I mean for you. It's no problem right there. Whitney Houston was Whitney Houston was coming to church with you and your family and you're hanging out with all these cool people. But I want I love Lady Gaga. What's Lady Gaga really like?

and different artists. So her and I was just working, and it was just something special about Gaga would be in there. And I remember telling Jimmy, I'm like, Jimmy, I know, we're working on his other artists. But Gaga is special. She just was so special. And I used to tell her all the time, say Gaga, you're going to be a superstar.

And she says, I know, I know, I know, I will have nothing less for myself, I will have nothing less for myself, she really believed that she was going to be like, the biggest pop star in the world, she really believed it like always was, she would literally say it all the time. And, um, and I gotta tell you, it was just an honor and privilege to work with, with her, because I got to know her as a person as well. And she was really a sweet, a really a sweet person, really sweet.

deal with that conflict? And then can you between your faith, and some of the bad things that happen and some of these just terrible lyrics? And that can you talk to you're also known as someone to give advice to people going through hard times, you advise Chris Brown when he was dealing with assault issues with Rihanna, and you talk to Justin Bieber as well, when he was going through some things as a young kid and doing some immature shit. So talk to us about both those things.

that. Number one, I hate some of the music that's out here today and what it's been what it's saying and what it's teaching our youth I hate it with a passion and I will do everything in my power to combat it with the music that I'm making a feature number three, you know, people are humans, right? And I was taught that you can't be forgiven unless you know how to

forgive. And I And when I think about you know, some of the pressure that allowed these artists you know, you want to be artists you want to make it big but when you as soon as you make a big now you got to the spotlight is on you. Right and everything that you do your everybody's watching everything

you do. And I just think a lot of artists, Chris Brown, Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, so many artists that I work with, that have went through some some horrible troubling times where they've been hurt, or they've hurt or they've hurt others. But they're human. They are. And I've always wanted to take the big brother role, and speak life into people and not speak death into people or speak life and help people to understand, you know, that, you know, we all go

through things. But there is you know, there is a bright light at the end of the tunnel. What,

with God's help. So, I've always just, you know, I've made myself available in our industry, I've made myself available to be there for people and I think, you know, I've built a reputation where managers in a&r is different people call me when they need when they need their artists to when they need someone to talk to they'll reach out to me and ask me Can I can I make a trip I went on tour Bieber, just to just to kind of help life coach him. And I just made myself you know, I flew

down to Orlando. When Chris Brown thing happened and spend time with him. I just stopped what I'm doing and stop producing for a second Because what is producing if you're not producing good life, you know, in pouring? Pouring great fertilizer on on seeds, right? Because that's what they are these, these artists, sometimes they're just young seeds that need to grow. And you know, they don't have they haven't been there long enough to have the

wisdom. So they make a mistake, they childish mistakes, because they're still young and they're still learning. So you know, I'm happy to be in a position I'm in that I can be trusted to help people out.

paying it forward. Always listen to the content that sent Him that sent that sent my way. Because you just never know where that die. That next diamond is right? You never know. So and I like to stay connected to talent and young talent. So yeah, I'm always looking and I'm always listening.

wear it. But he gave it to me and I wore that to talent show. And yeah, I just I was really a big fan of Big Daddy Kane, and not too long ago. He showed up at my house. And I met him for the first time and and I've recited some of his rhymes from back in the day for him and it was just a met. It was an amazing moment to know that you know, someone else that I looked up to so much, you know, that I had a chance to meet him in person and share some some moments with him.

in the world. And I'm curious why the Beegees who I absolutely love certainly if you're one of the best soundtracks of all time, why is that song your favorite song?

I've still not tired of it. In fact, I go to it often, when there's a certain mood that I'm trying to be in creatively, if I'm trying to be in somewhat of a more of a mellow, smooth creation mood, I'll go and listen to that song. It's just one of the greatest songs. It really is for me, for me, and there's a lot of great songs. Don't get me wrong, a lot of great songs that I love. But for me, that's my favorite song to listen to my favorite.

being famous, right? You can't go to the grocery store anymore. So that's a whole nother thing. But a lot of people are very motivated by money. So in the music business, and I know a lot of people in the music business, you know, way more than me, but people spend a lot of money in the music business. A lot of people are very flashy. They're drawn by the money, they're addicted to the money, they

spend a lot of money. Where should money rate is a factor in terms of what we're doing in our life in our careers.

Now mind you, I'm 18 years old. I have a Lexus GS 300. That's a pretty good car, I would think right? It's a nice car, right? He says to me, Well, you're not doing it unless you have a bense. He had put in my mindset that unless you have a Benz, or Bentley, and you're not even

successful. And I think you know, it's sad that the hip hop culture makes you feel that unless you are flashy, and have all these certain amount of diamonds and certain amount of expensive cars with things that you put on the cars that don't aren't worth a dime, once right after you take it off the lot. If you put all these extra extra things on your car, you're losing, you're losing the value of the actual car that you took off the lot. But they don't

teach you that. I think you said I think you know, more importantly, more important and then the money as you should be building your brand. Because if you build your brand correctly, the money will come. The money will the money will come you don't have to chase it. If you make great material, and your music is great or whatever craft you're in doesn't have to be music. If whatever you do is great. The money will come the money will chase you. But get away from me when you get away

from me here. It will literally chase you because if you're grading your craft, I really believe that if you're great at what you do, and then then they'll then money and other things will come.