David Kidder: Becoming Successful and Discovering Who You Are | E69

think about leading people. I started over and I went out and said, I'm gonna do 20 years of learning in one year, and I started to write the startup playbook I did 40 interviews with the best living entrepreneurs, I do friends of friends, the journey of becoming friends with your mind, which is going to take half your life so being patient with the journey.

do. We all have different backgrounds, personalities, and surroundings. We all have different routes on how we hope and want to get there. My guest today is my good friend David kidder. David is a serial entrepreneur, active angel investor, advisor to Fortune 500 companies sought after speaker and author of four books, including two New York Times bestsellers, the startup playbook and the intellectual devotional, one of which is behind me today. And I hope you

all go in and buy it. David has been a co founder and CEO of three venture backed startups, including clickable smart Ray and bionic, where he is currently at CEO and 2008. David ones prestigious erson, Young's Entrepreneur of the Year award. David, it's a true pleasure to have you on my show. Welcome to Search of Excellence.

that turn into a career. You mentioned the Walton stick, it's actually probably one of my greatest treasures in my life. I was started play tennis at 10 or 11 years old. And of course, I only wanted what I couldn't afford at the time. And so I put this Wilson staying on layaway for two years. And he got a paper route up at five, five in the morning in upstate New York. Snow rain has craziness. And eventually, after about two years, I was able to obtain it.

And it's in my office, my other house so I treasure it.

artifacts along the way. And I think it's important to save artifacts I have just over my head here I have several of the last couple years of different patents and trademarks and pictures of all the co founders of companies. And it just remind you that there's so many small things that happen on the way that turned out to be big, and it's important to save them because you'll create more and it's important to create more there mile markers on the way looking forward.

disappeared. We still have I guess Sears will be the most equivalent In this era of a bygone big box retail, but Montgomery Ward was one of them. What's left

gonna buy this. I've never run this business, but I'm gonna cut costs and increase profitability does that model work?

Davidson. And the secret was is that they had hired the two thesis is one is we're going to fire McKinsey, right, who is spending 10s of millions of dollars and fees was a way to underwrite this transaction. Secondly, was, is that there was just there was more value hanging in the ceiling, in the factory of Harley Davidson parts that it was the value of that

company. And I think as Sears was probably similar to that in the real estate assets, so real estate assets of Sears were in a separate company over over a couple of years that our friend to actually run that business. And, you know, the play was was yes, we have retailing. But more importantly, we have footprint warehousing, sort of distribution systems that we could leverage and create value from where others couldn't. So I don't think that's the way it

played out. As we know, the stories constant sort of restructuring and financing and recapitalisation, mostly from itself. But lots of lessons on, you know, the private equity model as a refounding model as opposed to a sort of a conviction type of investor,

be. And I know many companies that sold for $1,000,000,000.02 100 $50 million, where the firm's the purchasers ran into the ground, they didn't know how to run it. And then the founders bought it back for a fraction pennies on what they sold it for, what's your advice, to the people out there who are considering that

kind of move? I know, you know, tons of people that own private companies, during the spec raise, they all got phone calls, hey, let me take it public, the Spax were a disaster, I think 90% of them are going to go BK and I think something like 90% of them are below where they want, quote, unquote, public, what's the advice to all those companies out there who are getting contacted by these private equity firms, let us buy part of your company.

or 51% or 80%, it's no longer yours. And I've had four exits, I've had two that worked to the den, most recently was to Accenture, about a year and a half, two years ago, which has worked quite successfully. But the reality is, is that is that, you know if you can bootstrap and grow a company and maintain control, you own that control until you certainly until you sell that first dollar to private equity. And to some extent that sort of second or third dollar to a venture

capitalist. So that's a kind of philosophical lens to view it through. You know, I I've done both I've raised a tremendous amount of venture capital for two companies and Bootstrap two so I I feel that the job of founders really you know, this is not new information is really three things. It's to have a vision number one, and be right

in on time, right. Knowing the outside forces knowing the need the world and knowing why us and having conviction that two is is to is really about just talent is you know, putting the right people in the right seats at the right time for the right amount of time. And you basically can't make a mistake, one went through 20 In two or 323 50, and maybe five people 50 through 100. And you're, it's if you make those mistakes, it's almost always

fatal. Get them in the job, the wrong seat, you have to remove them, replace them, it's 12 months, and you're out of business. And the third is, is just never run out of money. So you can either raise it or earn it. And it's the same thing. It's oxygen, and you have a lot more control for longer when you create your own oxygen. And I'm a huge believer in that.

lived in Los Angeles. And I thought, gosh, that's the guy we should go after the head of effort, or she had just gone to a company called Web ban. And that was all the rage. And I thought, gosh, you know, if we can get this guy, that'd be incredible. And we did get them and they even made the Wall Street Journal. This was back in 99 2000. So I thought, Okay, we're done. He's gonna raise a

ton of money. He had not worked at a startup did not know the culture was very corporate minded, and it didn't work. What's your advice? To the founders out there? Who are going after to recruit somebody that big? What should they do to prevent that from happening? And when it does happen? What's the best way to get out of that and hire someone else was the right fit?

graduation. It's a hallmark moment where the company moves forward and no longer looks back. And I think it's important to recognize that in each one of those stages, you kind of have to have cultural alignment and mindset and metrics that everyone agrees are leaving this chapter and all the hard questions that we have good enough answers for, and we're pretty behind us. So nostalgia

is the enemy in a way. It's also to say that each one of those chapters on your way from a zygote to five roll to a 10 year old to an ugly teenager, it needs different talent. So it's Mr. or Mrs. Right now for 1218 24 months until they're no

longer that company. So you know, if you bring someone in who only knows the SNL years, or only knows the you know, the this solo Acuras versus the Mickey Mouse or s&s insync years, it's almost, it's almost fatal, because it's, it's the wrong instincts, wrong experience, right? They're not, they're not bad people. It's that you haven't done the work to get to the SNL years, you haven't earned the right to hire them, because you don't need

them. And vice versa. They're the wrong people at the wrong time for you. So context and permission alignment as an organization, from your yourself when you're bored, and your capital has to be basically perfect. Honestly, there's so many ways to fail than there are succeed. So that's one of the

issues. The second issue is if you have misalignment, as in, we realized, wow, we hired this, you know, Olympian, this SNL person, and really were the insync years, it's really critical for both parties to fix that immediately. You know, whether that person goes to, you know, ses public face, so it's a good exit, they take on an executive chairman row, but that's non-compensation. They're an advisor, they stay in the

board. There's lots of ways to do that, because their value will be valuable eventually, if you earn the right. But for them to stay in organization, those stages and there's misalignment is bad for everyone.

is for one example. I remember when I was young, and we were starting a company, someone had a great resume. They were CEO of this company, SVP of this company, and that person looks phenomenal on Paperboy, and you really dug in and you did the due diligence on what he was CEO of and what he was senior VP of it was fin it was hollow and it didn't really work and it came to me that I thought okay, now I understand that you don't know what good is. So can you talk

about that? And how if you're a young entrepreneur, starting a company, how we get around that and figure that out as well?

one might be two versus with. On the second, I might do versus, say, so on versus on versus in or on, you know, or, and is really how much time are you spending working in the company versus on the company, like, and so when you're thinking about what is good, and you're spending 100%, your time in the company, building the building organism, building, the sort of product and the marketing to sell it, but you actually aren't building the company, you're actually not working on the

company. And the both the balance of those two and your energy and your mindset, and you're, you know, this sort of truth, you're driving two are very different things. And they're equally important, you're just going to spend less time in one than the other in the beginning. Because you're basically I like the idea of your assumption should be that you're dead, trying to become

undead. Not that you're successful, that you should be out there being thought leadership, I've made those mistakes in the past as well, that the company literally is dead until it's not. And there's this, there's always this, you know, inevitability of the business where it's like a step function, like you're literally out of business, and all of a

sudden, it suddenly works. And it's not like you know, how math you learn math like an algorithmically speaking is you study study, study your terrible novel, Senate CLECs. Right? It's because you're working through the hardest parts of the business. So the first thing is, is thinking like, am I working on versus in? And how much time? Am I thinking about those two things? Because they're equally important. Secondly, is, is the two Vs with Am I selling to the customer? Or am I solving with

them? And so like, the question of like, what is good is really, the evidence. And the difference between those two tasks, selling is important, but the first stage of selling is to solve with them. And because the truth lives in this last piece, which is, it's not what they say it's what they do. Right? So we have to like, we have to look at the evidence, because the one place that will lead you to the promised land and full circle back to back to your question,

what is good look like? Like what good looks like is what customers do, consistently and always with you, because you solve with them. And you build a great organization that can scale both in and on. So these, again, are mindsets. It's tasks that you're doing. It's the

timing of those tasks. If you're consciously thinking about their energy and how you're thinking work, you'll get lost in the success theater, you'll get lost in selling, and you'll get lost in working in when you have to you have the other part of your job, which is on solving and listening business. And that's it's a totally different way to discover that commercial truth.

philosophical leader. And when he sold his company, and he was almost 70, at the time, his last one, he got stage four GIOS stoma, and he passed away seven months later. But on the way to the end, which was a new beginning, you know, I obviously he was my metrics. And so 16 He shared some great wisdom, but the the final wisdom of his life to me was a day and a half before he passed away, I was

last to see him. And I was I was holding his face and he was paralyzed on one side of his body were forehead to forehead, and he said, Don't focus on who you are to the world focus on who you're becoming. And it really changed my life because I had spent for reasons that I now now mostly based in trauma and shame, my life trying to get the top of things right and when you get to the top of something, you realize that there's nothing there. All the joy is left live.

It's real. In the valley, in the grind in the relationships and the experience and the discovery and solving and being of this, and this just launched an incredible mindset shift to me, but also just changed my life and how I think about leading people in my own vulnerability, but also there's and what what it takes to build great teams. And you know, just really how to run organizations, I give an

example of this. And this is one of the things that came from him as well, is if you want truth, people have to be able to take risks. And if you want people to take risks, they have to be forgiven. So how do you create a culture that believes in excellence, but as forgiveness and grace is required to get there. And so it's important not just to create rules and organization like, here's what we believe. And here's the laundry list of things. It because people really don't know

when they're doing it. Well, you have to create like doctrine, they need to know when they're doing it, right. And what we created. And when I created my last company, it was 15 years is this rule called the seven to one rule, we try to do extraordinarily more good than we do bad. And that ratio, which is literally statistically impossible. And that's the point, which is no one we believe in highest standards, but no one will ever actually reach them, which means we're

going to fail each other. And so the point is, we want you to take risks, we want you to try we want to take do excellence, but assume that when we make mistakes that our default state to you, is to forgive you. So we can look at the problem shoulder, not across the table, why did you fail, why we're promoting that idea, shoulder shoulder, so we can look at it and grow. And when that we do that with a cycle of trust, and goodwill, and forgive this will get people to live whole lives.

And we'll get to the commercial truth with greater trust. And ultimately, that is the whole business is dead and dead is getting to a point where commercial truth is what leads the organization because it's discovered, it's told, and it's, it's converted into growth.

themselves about you. And so I think, you know, I remember reading this years ago, which is, you know, the most powerful lines you can give someone and leading them a sentence to them, is this idea, which is, I have high expectations of you. And I believe I know you can achieve them. And it's, it's an atomic idea, which is, you yourself have to have high standards, and I have them for you, which means there are expectations for

yourself and your life. And especially instead of organization to put the belief in you what mentors do whether your boss or so now, is they have a belief and a conviction, you ideally they'd actually have done it before, right? So you know, and then they're doing it they'll have, you know, learning and understanding empathy for what you're going through to share how they did it, but not telling you what to do. And that's really the that's what true mentors do is they let you

learn yourself. Medical Roger, in particular, was an insanely connected guy. I mean, ridiculous. I mean, and he never opened a single door for me in my life. And he could have done it. He could change my life at any point from 16 to when he passed away, he helped me learn to care about people more than anyone else. And as a result of that exchange, value and ideas and relationship impact to help build and replicate his giftedness because he knew it would change my life and he was

right. So mentors do that. They let their life speak. You know, it's not cheap advice. And it comes from a place of deep humility, learning and empathy. I want to go back a

in my view. It just, it just the diminishing returns is really about their experience and their development as a human. So I look at their college experience, not as an accreditation of their intellect, their their heart, but also just their growth in their life experience as humans, you know, my father, who's the sweet apostle, like brilliant psychologist, he didn't give me a lot of advice, but it gave me two pieces of advice in my life that were really transformative.

But when he went, when I walked out at age 18, to go to college, he put his kind arm around me and he said, Don't come back. And he was kind of dead serious. He was like, You're you he didn't use these words, but like, you're you got this and also you own it. And I told my sons this for since they were kids, which is you own your life, like your parents are imperfect, failed humans, doing their best see us as such. And what we have is, is truly unconditional, godlike love for

you. But you're on you're going to be on your own. So you realize this, and this is moments arriving. So helping them game a system that's unbelievable, especially in the world of AI and super intelligence. And, you know, we're gonna become a tool base value based solution base, really economy very soon. Getting that degree and perfecting, you know, a skill. That's, that's hireable is almost a waste of time. It's really about their ability to think and learn and solve hard

problems. And hopefully, I'd add this last thing, which is I told the boys coming. I just started sending them all sorts of articles about how to what to study horizontally and orthogonal. It's become prompt engineers. And how do they how can they elevate and CO elevate their ability to solve harder and harder problems that are beyond their intellect, because they understand the tools and the way to think about solving problems. So the commoditization and accretive accreditation is

going to accelerate. So that skill is going to be matters. And so having studied industrial design, which is sort of engineering and art and and problem solving, and storytelling, I was just It was a total gift to go to it. It was one of the best design schools in the country, actually won this idea magazine International Design Award before I left, which was sort of a rare award. And then the dawn of the internet happened, it was 1994 Silicon Graphics boxes and razz

the impro. Engineer, were using all these tools. And I started my first internet company at age 2021. And it taught me to think and it also taught me how to work extremely hard like hosp. Put yourself in the hospital hard. So the life was gonna be easy by comparison. By time I got into the world relative to how hard it worked. I worked at a startup nearly part time, 23 hours a week, I was an RA, I played college lacrosse and did

a full full load. Getting out and started company was like a, you know, the beginning of a breeze of heartbreak for next 20 years. So that's a lot to say. But I just raise your kids to think independently with the great tools of our generation. And it's not unlike the graduate plastics. We're in a place where AI is not unlike chatty videos like that, like Netscape and HTML for our lives.

without a high GPA today. A lot of the students still function or want to strive for a high GPA, but in the real world, I think at least my perspective, it helps you get another meeting with a potential employer. But at the end of the day, are you going to hire somebody with a 3.0 or 2.6? If they have the right skills and social skills

and you like them as people? And as a corollary to that question, how are you advising your own kids like I did my own kids about the mental health issues associated with school, the application process? Is it necessary, as you said, to have the mentality that you're going to put yourself in the hospital?

to learn? Were you curious? What Am I old, late friends, was the founder of Zappos wonderful guy, friends, lots of people, but a very authentic friend. And I remember he was a friend of mine as well, incredible guy, incredible guy. And he, you know, lots of journeys together. I remember he once told me this is about four years ago, because he had no kids. He just like, you know, what's the most powerful lesson you're trying to raise? You know, Jack, Stephen

and Lucas. And, and I said, Well, you know, it was really about their grittiness, right kind of Duckworth view of the world. And suddenly he goes, Well, if I had kids, I think the most profoundly important thing to teach them is curiosity. And I kind of thought of as sort of a vitamin versus a painkiller, a software versus a hard word, right? But the more I've thought about that, one thing that he challenged me on was, I think he was completely right. The curiosity as like an atomic

skill of asking why, right? Why does that work? Why does he does or why do I feel this way? Why did I do that? Why did you do that? Like, the curiosity is the entanglement of our minds with opportunity in the world. And without it, you're sort of just you're following life is happening to you, as opposed to

you happening to life. And that fulcrum of curiosity, is really what I hope is embedded in my kids mind for their lives, that's going to lead them to grow, you know, grow without curiosity, it is the central sort of chemical in all growth. Yes, it's probably one of the most I mean, yes, character and their ethics and all these things. They don't need to be

perfect, no one's perfect. But they do need it, I think that's the one gift you can give them is a very deep a committed sense of curiosity, about themselves and about the needs of the world. And how to grow.

an adult. So it's a signal, but it's no less important signal as all the things you could show as signals about radical curiosity, and challenging yourself. And you're becoming right that you know, you're the grit in your journey, there's, those are more important signals than a GPA.

daily vernacular? And what's your advice to them? If they are struggling too much with a mental stress and are having very negative thoughts?

How am I going to grow? How am I going to survive these things, but if you back up and you think about this at a very high level, and I encourage people to really go as deep as they're comfortable in getting these answers, but think about this way. Like our lives our reality, the one that's we're struggling with is really an outcome of your choices, right? So it sits on this pillar, the single pillar of our choices and, of course, you're gonna say no

kidding, right? And you're gonna You can read all sorts of structural learning from the outside in on habits and mindset and some amazing authors and thinkers on this stuff. But ultimately, the fatigue or the exhaustion I'm performing in fixing yourself on the outside end will eventually run its course, right? It's the human nature, right? Because our conscious life where we're trying to fix that is really built off of what's below that.

It's like being an iceberg in the middle of the ocean, we've lived the tip, but our whole reality sits underneath it. So it's important recognize that our choices really are just at the top place Berg, we're disconnected from the reason of the idea that choices are really just intentions. We are intentionally choosing our life, whether it be stress, or lack of stress, ownership, lack of ownership, behavior, lack of

whatever those things are. So the question is, is how do you change an intention, if you can't change your choices permanently, which is we're struggling to do trying to get to the top of things because we get there we'll be happy. When you really understand that the intention is to change an intention, you have to get underneath the intention, which is the question of why why do I intentionally choose this life stressful on stressful performing non performing, anxious, anxious, happy, all the

all the dimensions of that? And so part of becoming is that first stage is just knowing yourself and being curious, ask, Why do I intentionally choose this stressful, anxious life, and if you try to fix it from the outside, in, you know, there's a lots of ways to take you out of that journey, right drugs and other things, which are, I understand them, sometimes all the way through is to go through them, right, there is no escaping to get the intention, you gotta go through,

not out. So once you do the work of knowing, you start to understand why then begins the the wholeness of the journey, right of learning to live. Because what you discover what's underneath that there's actually something underneath the y, which is one of only two states,

and that is fear, or love. And so the more you get connected to the state that you're in, because you understand your why you've know yourself, and now you can heal, right, the second stage is just the receiving of healing, you get to a state of being, right being that love as a state. So knowing receiving and being that journey, really is the journey of sort of becoming friends with your mind, which is going to take half your

life. So being patient with the journey, being patient with the questions that you have to live because they're so difficult to to receive when you're in Iraq, in your 20s, you're just learning is really important sort of surrendering around the, to the pressure of having the answers. But to come practically into this, and I'm happy to dive into those things, because they're all sort of the gnosis of those things are real, the question of like, what am I

gonna do with my life? And I'll just tell you, the advice to get my sons was your was your second question. And that is really the dimension around being curious to understand the outside forces that are happening in our lifetime. outside forces drive almost all economic or professional success. It just does. And so we anybody who thinks they're self made, or, you know, it was their hard work, all those things being

true, right? A lot of people are self made a hard work have failed radically, consistently, because they misunderstand the outside forces. Second is they understand the needs of the worlds that are either created because those forces, or the ones that have changed because those forces, so force need. And lastly, and this is the most important one is what is your proprietary gift? Not just what

are your What are you? What's your, your passion, but what do you what's your gift, the proprietary impossible to replicate? Secret of your life that allows you to feel like every 10 hours is one hours, that drives your becoming in solving that problem? Well, because you have obsessed with the outside forces, when you have that concoction, that conviction going, all the questions of where you're gonna spend your time your life will

be answered. You just have to, you just have to care about them very, very deeply.

that benefit you. The reality is, is that you're going to spend half your life if you ask the right questions, working, hopefully in peace and love those things in a relentless quest to answer that question, and you're going to learn a lot of things until that answer arrives. I've seen it because you're probably not ready to understand it. So I wouldn't I wouldn't it's the wrong question to say, I need to know the answer. I'm struggling there, sir. The question is, is, am I?

Am I a person? Who's will become the answer? And it's a totally different energy. It's a toilet because you're, it's such you're gonna work hard no matter what the question is, is, what is the work of your mind? And your your effort that's going to produce that answer? So this this, so the first question is, is what would you tell someone who is see the question, the second one was, they don't know. A lot of the questions of proprietary

gift are happen to you. They can originate in trauma that can it can go it can originate in tragedy or success, quite frankly, I'd argue that success is a very bad educator, I think of the things that have happened to me. And I've gone through total brokenness, total failure, adult back from zero. And because of that, that everything I do today was learned in that experience. And it was brutal.

But there's no way I would have experienced the moderate success I've had are the things I've done today without going through that. And so that wasn't something I planned, I tried to avoid it like hell, it just was the inevitability of my career. And all the learning will happen because of it. And all the character lessons and the in the joy that's followed has happened because of being broken, quite frankly,

things. In college, I had very good fortune of being joining a startup backed by called the idea group started by Bill Gillette, who really was one of a key influencer in my life. And, you know, he gave me a job, you know, immediately upon meeting him at alrighty, when he needs some computer specs, and I just leapt at it. And then at Rocky for a number of years, and as a result of that got exposure to the internet, which was 9095,

because of that. And then as much as I love design, I'd never worked in design ever again, I became problem solving in the world of digital, which was the equivalent, same stuff, what's the difference between a physical versus a digital product, it's how you think. And, and then I started first company, we worked doggedly for several year, two years, three

years. And we sold that for moderate amount of and with two very good friends of mine, and then went to New York did a roll up for for three years and another great experience and start my next company. And the SAS company raised 5 million bucks and sold that for a bunch and then took a bunch of years off two years off traveled 42 countries, and that came back at Meriden sort of family and start another two cup next couple of

failed badly. Next couple, it's just like, it just you just keep building, and it's just all of that was, you know, really trying to continue to take very significant steps forward in my ability to build things to solve problems. You know, I, when I wrote the purpose of bionic VR I sold it was called this idea that we ignite growth revolutions. And I didn't really realize what that meant until I thought about in the context of money or success to for our

partners. But the truth is, is that all of it is lives inside your mind. It's in your permission you give yourself and the greater you continue to take these risks and grow, the greater your permission, and the confidence you have to be able to go solve things, even if you don't know the answers. I mean, you're building a company today that has way more big questions in front of it than it does, you know, behind it. And every little signal is accumulative.

It's compounding. And while it's not a nonlinear, it's a nonlinear path. You're like, I just need to do that five times, and then build a system that does it 50 and then 505,000. And it'll solve itself. If I get these five, right. Once you know how to do that, you just you start looking at all the components of the business. Each company teaches on a part of it. You know how to stack an organization to build to solve something important and

hopefully it grows. And your timing is right, but you're sensitive to all those things that you just didn't know before. So that's where the confidence lives is, is just keep taking shots until you it's you're forced to learn it.

two companies. And then I want to know how you bounce back from a failure. When you have a big success. What What prompted you to keep going,

But there was just a lot of similar companies that together could build a really big company, if you got the culture, right, and all those things. And there was we're backed by Omnicom, and I was, I joined that company was founded by some other people, and we had a ticket in public, and it's actually still around today. And it was one of their big five big plays at the beginning the

internet. So there's lots of capital going towards businesses that could solve technical problems at the beginning of the digital era. Today, I'd say it's equivalent to, you know, sir, there will be preventive services companies in the AI era, people solving big digital, you know, generative digital challenges for big companies will be similar to this, I think, not unlike the internet era, which you were a, a wildly successful, founder of one of the first, you know, generations

of those businesses. You know, this AI era, I think, has a similar level of gravitas around it. So the difference between that and let's say, you know, the multiverse or, you know, the metaverse, I mean, worse, even social media. To some extent, well, there's several big companies. I think this era is much more substantial than that chapter. So to talk about the failure piece, I can tell you about an experience around that, that I think I think is quite profound in terms of how to

start over. But maybe just unpack that a little more, because we go to lots of directions around that one question alone, is there a particular piece of experience that you want to want to jump into that I can try to eliminate?

advertising. So you know, lots of different API's lots of different frictions, so how you manage search and social across many platforms was difficult. And this will seem totally Captain Obvious. But if you could plug all that data into a single interface that taught you and told you how you're doing every day, and what you needed to do to improve without having to think about it, you could just make chip decisions. That would make your job 10 times easier. And that's effectively

what we did. And we raised, you know, 30 plus million dollars over a period of like six years, a couple 100 People 250 plus people, and we build this organization, and we made one fatal mistake. And we did this at a very high profile level. We did this with Founders Fund and some of those phase VCs the world Abra Wanger USV records when it first mark, we're all thank God still friends of mine, but we ended up building. This is the story. We're building basically, a siamese twin headed

kid in the world. So it turns out as a business, what that means is we were solving two marketplaces at once. And what we realized is because we had done a very big contract to white label our company, we were growing fast but not fast enough was We went label it and brought it to a one a very significant credit card company of which the President company is still good friend of mine as well. She has helped, you know, just been very kind to you over the years, but

we took it to their masses. And we end up really bifurcating the vision of the company. So same promise, same patents, things. But we turned out we were focused on small and medium sized business. And we're focused on the enterprise side of the world. So before too long, we realized this is not one company has two companies, we lost focus. And it's it's really a fatal outcome to be

honest here. So despite an incredible talented culture, and people and brand and all the things that we won, the thing that we that are fatal mistake is we lost focus. And we did that at the end of the day as a CEO that's on you, right? Like you're the buck stops here is real, it's you, there's no one to look at, you can see the smartest, most brilliant board in the world. But at the end of the day, you're you're making the decisions. And I had to take

ownership of that. And we almost been acquired and two different for actually very significant numbers. twice before we end up raising a Series C. And we raised that seriously, my board basically said, We want you to sell the company immediately. And effectively. Take that beautiful kid and rip it into which is so heartbreaking. Because you love the people, you love the business, and it's what we had to do. And so we did do

it very quickly. So while I was trying to do that, I It nearly killed me, I have three little kids, I was working, honestly 80 to 100 and plus hours a week, you know, night feedings everything leading this whole thing through crisis. And it I had actually had a acid reflux heart attack. I discovered years later where I got a bed one night and fell, as it was saber sore was driven to my chest like flat on the ground. And I thought I was gonna die literally die and I just muscled

through the pain. I went back to bed and kept working, literally. And I got a body scan a couple years ago. And they're like, Oh, you have a you almost died. And here's the scar to prove it. And like, Yep, I know exactly what happened was really foolish to be honest here. But the stress was crazy. So anyways, this one night, David Smith, my chief revenue officer of the company calls me and he says, David, he said, Why are you making this so

hard? And I was like, What are you talking about making it hard? I'm killing myself trying to get this company to safety? And he said, No, he said, Actually, you're making this hard, harder than it needs to be. And I said, What are you talking about? He goes, he goes, this company is about you, which is why it's failing. And he said, and he goes, and I as like I was getting angry. Honestly, I was very angry when he said this

to me. And I said, he said he goes he said, listen, David, he goes, You are more than this company. And the sooner you realize it, the sooner the company will get to safety. Because we're all here to help you. And no one can help you because you can't see the company because you're seeing yourself. And he was 100%, right? I was trying to drive and control at a self interest to survive. Because I was afraid of failure. Burton beyond super naturally afraid of failure. And he and I said I was so

exhausted. I said, Well, what do you what does that even mean? Like, how would I solve this? He goes, You need to give it over. And I was like, give it over to what he does to God or the universe. And I was like, what does that even mean? At this moment? You can imagine you're thinking through this in the crisis of it. He goes well, what it means is, is that you accept all of the outcomes. And I my next line, this is verbatim as I said, You mean failure. He goes

That's exactly what I mean. And he and I my next line forbade him was You mean public failure? He says yes. And my next verbatim is I like the cover of insider. And he's like Yes. And in that moment, I literally broke and I realized like all of the possibilities are possible. Failure is as equally possible as success and it's not about me

and I couldn't control it. And I literally surrendered I live at moment gave it over and as 30 to 50 Do I laid on the ground my adequate my last home little kids and downstairs and I sobbed like a baby like a biblically on the ground. Flat as I could get sobbed for not for a little time, like a long time. And it just broke me that I realized like this is going to happen and I finally accepted it and I I got up in this puddle. And I sat there in this kind of lotus

position. And I started to like meditate and pray about this giving over part. And I realized I was this is the mental model, I'm almost done as long snapper to the port one, as I felt like I was running through these paths of thorns. The harder I ran, the more shredded me and I

was bleeding out. And the mental model renew I had the miracle this moment, and probably when most courageous decisions in my life, as I imagined myself being lifted out of that road, onto a clean, brand new road of life, brand new. But I imagined that road road as if I started walking it when I was 20. I had to say, I realized, I really believed I felt foolish, but the truth was, everything was still possible. All the opportunities in the world were still available to me if I believed it

and thought it and found it. But I was wiser. And humbler in that moment. And I began to walk again. And I went to sleep. I went to bed. And I slept for the first time in ages. And I got back stay and I was open, humble, honest, asking questions, and went back to that got up again next day slept and slept again and again, at about a month later, quote unquote, out of the blue. I got a phone call from an old friend said, Do you want to sell your company? I said yes, I do. Because great

because I need all of it. And within a month we were acquired. There's no CO CEOs, as you know, I used like, there's only one boss here by Friday. He's like, you're out. I'm like, great. And then I was gone. I was out. And I and it was also where the safety. And I started over and I went out and said I'm gonna do 20 years of learning in one year. And I started to write the startup playbook. I did 40 interviews with the best living entrepreneurs. I knew friends of

friends. And I listened. I said the questions how do you bet your life and I learned a generation of learning that came down to the second goal introduction called the Five lenses that began by Yannick and we bootstrapped a company next seven, eight years to 25 million revenue and sold it two years ago. No way that would have happened 10 And I got to the brokenness. So success about educator so long story, but

renewal begins. Because your willingness to go through the brokenness and give it over and start again.