This week on the In Depth podcast, George Foreman. It's nothing wrong with being knocked down in life. It's about getting up. It's hard to believe that we've lost the legendary boxer, but we look back on our 2013 conversation where the heavyweight champ reminisce about his unforgettable moments in the sport. The fondest memory from that fight would be what? People are cheering for me. People were praying for me. Reflected on growing up poor in Houston's Fifth Ward.
And you didn't want the kids to know how destitute you were. And how the aftermath of one fight changed his life forever. And I realized I was about to die in a dirty old dressing room. But we began our conversation talking about his amazing Houston, TX property. First things first for doing this interview at your beautiful home. Tell me about it. Well, I've had this house forever because I raised, well, about a decade, 10 years. I raised German shepherd dogs, a
lot of dogs. And then generally in the neighborhoods where I live, they bark too much. And I didn't want to impose on my neighbors anymore. I had to move to a bigger place. And of course, I had. That meant bringing my horses along with me. So this place is not just a place of luxury, it's a place of necessity. How involved were you in designing the place? I drew it up the way it ought to be, and my wife designed the rest of it.
You know, if you build on a home, you better make certain that you tried just to do your part and turn the other part over to your wife. How many animals do you have here? We keep in on on this property no less than 18 German Shepherds. I have those. Then I have a little rat area for squirrel hunting. Although they don't hunt them, they look at them and we have 2 cats. And then horses too. The place is loaded with horses. Got it. What?
What caused you to fall in love with German Shepherds? I've never been anything but a lover of animals in my whole life. I never wanted anything but to be closer to animals. I saw this movie, Rin Tin Tin television show on Saturday. That dog would run along with the horse and he was man's best friend. I said one day I'd like a dog like that. So that's why the German Shepherd.
What led to you breeding him? Well, I also show the German Shepherds. I decided one time I keep having to buy a buy a good dog, maybe I should breed them. And if you breed them, what are you going to do with them? You just can't breed them and hold them. So we show them in Germany. You show them in Germany. Yes, I don't actually get out there and do the work, but I have show dogs that we get out there and distribute and and demonstrate who's the best dog and I've been getting close.
And explain why you used to use them kind of in your training in your past days as. Well, I didn't get along with people originally. I didn't get along with anybody and I have to take these long runs and jogs. After a while, I see the dog would be the only one hanging out with me. So the dog became my training companion that they follow me around. We even jump in the pool and swim together.
Dogs have always been my close companion because no one else could get along with me. While you don't have them anymore, why get a lion and a tiger? And people ask me all the time, what do you do with a lion and a tiger? Well. People are just Mike. Tyson Well, to be a boxer, number one, you got to be stupid. You got a halfway be crazy. That's why you get a lion in a tiger. You're absolutely out of your mind. Is it true that one like tried
to attack you once? And I had an incident once and that's when I decided I didn't want lions and tigers anymore. I'd raised this baby, this lion from a cub we loved. One another licked and played. And one day, trying to save my brother from the lion, the lion attacked me. I and I didn't want my brother to be killed. I attacked the lion back and just buy a hair. I'm here today and the lion is not. I had to depart with my beloved lion because I realized they
would never be a pet. What happened when you you attacked it back? Evidently when I swung, I missed him by an inch and screamed and fell just a little bit out of his territory, and he saw my charge and understood that I was just as dangerous as him that moment. And he moved. We both parted company and we never be. We never were friends again. I can understand why the the youth center I had the chance to. We had the chance to shoot some
footage of it yesterday. How did the idea for that come about? I really didn't want to be in the business of the Houston, our full time preacher at the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ. And that's all I wanted to do is be a preacher. But I noticed the kids weren't coming to church. I'd inquired about a kid that I'd seen earlier in the gym that was run by my brother. The kid had gone to jail and I asked him what happened. He said they were robbing the store.
The storekeep shot one of the kids, and the kid I was interested in shot the storekeep. All these lies were devastated because I trying to show everybody what a great preacher I'd been. So I started the George Foreman Youth and Community Center, just a place for the kids to hang out. I don't appreciate them. There's not a Bible on there for them. The idea is that I'm here for you, and that's why the George Foreman Youth Center.
And you started it during that your but before your comeback, after you had retired the first time from boxing. Has it evolved over the years? And it's strange because I didn't. I took money I had saved up you. Sometimes when you realize you're in, you got trouble. I took my money and the biggest part was to get a foundation. The rest was to start a youth center. And it took every dime I had to keep that place open.
Money that I had set aside for my kids to live happily ever after after and I just didn't think it would stay in existence. This was the reason I had gone back into boxing in the first place. The the part of that youth center that you're most proud of would be what? Well, the youth center is there because there are a lot of people who've come into business and I'm going to help kids, I'm going to raise money and they're no longer there. So the the part that I'm most
proud of is that it's there. Yeah, I want to take you back to when you were a younger boy growing up. You you were the the fifth of seven children. Your mother really did everything she could to make ends meet. Her husband maybe wasn't around as much as everybody would have liked. Your biological father you learned about only later on in life. How scarce was food for you guys
back then at the time? I've always been motivated by food because I was always hungry and never was enough to eat for me and my kids. Especially the kids would gather around the table and what they've not always noticed that if they finished first, I was going to get their food. I was always hungry and there was never enough food for various reasons. One lady, it's hard to take care of what, 6-7 kids at one time? How special were the pancake
sundaes every other Sunday? Well, my mother was just she couldn't afford to have what, 3 meals every day? But on Sundays, there would be one meal that would last all days, and whatever she would fix would be just fine with us. Tell tell about the hamburger on Fridays. Well, because my mother was a short auto cook, of course there would always be a hamburger. Sometimes she'd afford to bring home one from a job and she'd have to split that thing. How about 5 or 6 different pieces?
And I can still taste that delicious burger part. It so so many ways really. Now, I mean, you would usually, I believe, have mayonnaise sandwiches for school. You'd bring them from home for the school lunch. But sometimes I, I understand you wouldn't be able to afford to bring lunch for yourself to school. So in those instances, what would you do with the brown paper bags? And it's such a shame when you're so poor and you don't want everyone else to know that
you're so poor. Really, you're not poor. You'll Poe and you and a couple days would go to school at certain times and you didn't want the kids to know how destitute you were. So you take a paper bag with a little grease on it and then show the kids like, I ate my sandwich on the way to school. That's why I don't have any lunch today. You make preparation for those things. It was embarrassing. You know, when you don't have it certainly is embarrassing.
EO Smith Elementary School, that's where where you went went to school back in the day. Explain how the clothes that you wore to school impacted the education you got back then. Well, it's, it's a rough thing to be in an environment where some kids have and some do not. And that's what that was my state at, at school. EO Smith Junior High, the last school I attended. A lot of times you just didn't want to go to school because you just didn't have the clothes and
you hide. So you try to find a way to get something nice to wear for a few days, and you go to school for a few days. Would the teachers focus less on you if you didn't have nice clothes? Well in in my younger days it always seemed like if you had a lunch, nice clothes to wear daily, the teachers like you more, they seem to gravitate to you more. Those who didn't have you can believe they didn't have the teachers blessings as well as well.
Considering the area you grew up in in the 5th ward and how tough of a district it was, how much does it mean to you to now have a brand new school there? And there's something centrally located that was a a school, a youth center. All of that was right there in my Mitch. I didn't know how to appreciate it.
The only school that I ever graduated from was Atherton Elementary School. Today, with the help of a lot of friends and families and people who attended that school, it's the state of the arts now, one of the best schools not only in the community, but in the state and in the world right there
after that. And I like to think that I pass through those doors and, and I'll constantly make appearances that are tell children that doesn't matter your beginnings, what you've had in life, it's what you want in life. And that school after and represents that for me, because now the best school is in my old neighborhood. And you mentioned what you said to children who you've spoken to, but you know, you're obviously representative of
that. You mentioned the only school you graduated from being the elementary school, and you really struggled in school. Somebody who's similarly facing difficulties, whether it be because lack of desire or the other outside influences that could, you know, create difficulties in school, what do you say to them to, you know, give them the encouragement that they can still have success in life? Yeah, that after the elementary school is I point at it all the time.
Even I point to my children, I take them past it. Look where I started, and it didn't stop me. As a matter of fact, this could have been the place where I learned to read, and the reading has become the best thing that ever happened to me. I've become a writer, a fighter, and all of that. But it doesn't matter where you're from. Take advantage of a good education and you'll never go wrong. And so very early on in in your life, you win an Olympic gold
medal. A few years after that, you become heavyweight champion of the world. And you've spoken about before how you know, even though you were having all this professional success at that time, you were pretty angry. Looking back on that now, why do you think that was? Anger is something generally just discontent. I had all started with not having enough to eat growing up, looking for more and more to eat and not having that kind of satisfaction.
Then all of a sudden you get into boxing where anger is applauded. I met Sonny Liston. He became my role model and he was one of the he had to be the most angry fellow I'd met. He'd look right through you, scare you. And I thought whenever I'm going to be successful in boxing, I'm going to have to learn how to utilize anger. And and was that a motivating force, the anger? I don't think anger really motivates you. It's just a tool. You think it's it's going to make you win.
So hey, I better get some. And, and you said something in our interview, we sat down in 2007, this is several years back, where you said you were such a bad guy outside of the ring that people saw the best of you inside the ring. How so? Oh, when I was in the ring you really saw the best of me. Outside the ring I was really some terrible fellow because I did some things to people that
mostly in the ring. I'm not ashamed of my boxing matches but outside the ring, some of the things we did, I did I'm ashamed of to this day. What what? What are some of the things that you regret? I regret really the way you treat people. There are a lot of people you meet and you think you're going to know them for a lifetime, then they pass away before you even get a chance to tell them you're sorry for that side of
you that they saw. And I could go on and on with stories, but like I said, there's nothing to be proud of. Speaking to kind of your mentality as a boxer back then, you wrote about how you wanted to, like, kill Ken Norton in your fight with him, and then when that didn't happen, you wanted to kill Muhammad Ali in your fight with him. Like literally kill. Why? You get to be heavyweight champ of the world. I've defeated Joe Frazier, had one title offense, and everyone
knew that I had beaten the best. And Joe Frazier, no doubt about it, I had beaten the best. People had something to say about that. I said, you know what? I'm going to kill one of these fellows, then they'll shut up. And it wasn't about kindergarten or Muhammad Ali. It was like anyone I'd met in the Met in the ring. I said I'm going to kill one of these guys, then they'll know that I'm the best. Is speaking to your preparation and you know every boxer just seems to have different habits
and different routine. Explain why you wouldn't have sex 75 days leading up to about. In boxing, the one thing you have to be true, you hear a lot of story once you become a boxer, and a lot of it was about the guys who tended to be playboys, who played overnight, sleeping with different women's and women at night and then waking up trying to be the best.
And they'd all be failures. So we all knew that if you're going to be a good boxer, especially myself, I would have to abstain from being a human being for a long time in order to be stronger than anyone else. Sex was out. And what was the thinking, too, behind not drinking water leading up to a fight? I I think that I had Charlie Shapes, my first really half trainer. We had to, we were stablemates. Charlie Shapes was a
welterweight. He had to leave water alone a couple days just to get on the scale to make 147 or 139 or whatever. And I started the same habits, not realizing that heavyweights didn't have to do that. So I was foolish enough to go without water and drying out for a boxing match. But I thought it make me made me more terrible. Did did it change later on in your career? The first time around, I would go without water. I practiced that, trying to get
that ideal weight. The second time around, I didn't care what I weighed, I just wanted to get into that boxing ring. So I never did go without water like that again. And did you notice a big difference? And I noticed that water, you stay hydrated, you're better athletes. You, the 10th round come and you're refreshed. The 12th round up here and you're not afraid anymore. You've been known as the hardest puncher ever.
You said that some punches, and just speaking in general terms, you said some punches are so ferocious that they don't hurt. They actually will interrupt communication between the tower and the ground, as you put it. Explain like what you mean. There was 1-2 boxes I faced in my career. They hit so hard. It didn't hurt. It was Ron Lyle. The first time I remember thinking I'm not hurt, why am I on the floor and he knocked me
down again. If only it had hurt, I would have would not have gotten up. It just it was like it you are no longer the same person. You see your legs wiggle and you're not in control of yourself. Once again, Gerry Cooney hit me with a left hook way back into my second career and I felt it's going to happen again and I decided to get that fight over that time. You ever hit somebody similarly hard where you could see that
happen to them? My my punching power was so the first time around was so vicious that the second time around I wouldn't even throw those kind of punches anymore. And why? Why was that? Because the first time around, as I told you, I'm going to kill one of these guys, I'm not going to. I decided the second time around, I'm not going to kill anyone. This is a profession and there was never a shot in anger. Muhammad Ali, when was the last
time you spoke to him? Muhammad Ali and I have become great friends. Not only are we great friends, our families are friends now too. Have children who communicate with his daughters and I communicate with his family. So we're friends. We talk as much as we can. One daughter will get him on the telephone and make certain he's doing. You heard you read something in the newspaper. It's not. So he's Daddy here.
Hey, George, you know. I heard he was giving you trouble about the number of grandkids each of you had not not too long ago. Yeah, Mohammed always wants to win. He didn't put on that. He was the greatest. He meant to be the greatest. He never wants to lose. He sent a photograph of his grandchild. He's holding the grandbaby and I sent one back of my grandchild. I'm holding a baby. You know what he did? He sent another back holding 2 grand. He can't lose.
There's no lose in him. And when it comes to winning, he's the greatest. Yeah, obviously during your professional careers, you guys seemingly didn't have as close of a relationship as you do today. When did that start to change? I think that that's still probably a bad state in boxing where boxers learn to hate one another. You get a trainer, you get a manager and he's talked about I'm going to you to be heavyweight champ of the world. These other guys are not this.
No one is that. And you bell ring and you hate these fellas and you lose a lot of time with people who could have been your best friends, who have so much in common with you. We lost that early on with Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton and I. We could have been the best friends, even our daughter. Daughters are pretty much alike. Is it possible though, for guys to be friends with each other when their job is to beat each other up in the ring?
It's important for guys to be friends, especially if they're going to be facing one another in the ring trying to win the championship of the world. It's important that they be friends. Understanding that this is the beginning of a relationship. It's going to be long lasting. They should be friends. The rumble in the jungle against Muhammad Ali in Zaire, Africa, You said in your book it featured more unexplained happenings than any event in
your life. And I know you've rehashed you know this on multiple times before, but the the water that you were given by your trainer shortly before you you got into the ring, it explained what you think was done to it. I got into the ring and generally, I dry out well, go without water. And just before a boxing match, my trainer would always say, all right, ready for your first sip of water. And he'd give me a nice drink of
water. And that's how we need you, ready for another and a piece of ice. We'd always done this. This night in Africa, the same water, same ceremony. Here's your drink of water. I say, hey, this water tastes like medicine. And my trainer, Dick Sadler said same water as always. And I didn't want to make him feel bad, so I took another drink. I said, man, this water has medicine in it, Same water as always. He said, look, I'm taking a drink and I took an ice and that
was different. The water was different that night. Explain what happened during the refs count when you were down that made you believe it was suspect. The the fight and I lost the boxing match to Muhammad Ali. I got beat genuinely. I've got photographs where I'm on the canvas, the referee counting over me. I lost that boxing match. I had a lot of complaints after that boxing match that count the the the ropes were too loose, the referee counted too fast and
I had something in my water. I have lots of excuses, but it still doesn't bring it back and make it a win. I've learned to live with that. Right. I mean, but even if you admit that Ali beat you and would have beat you regardless, it is though still your belief that things happen that may have been less than honest. Or I've had a lot of victories, lots of victories. I've even became champion of the world again, all of those victories, and I didn't seem to complain about anything after
those victories. So I've learned now with the defeat, let it alone. You, you wrote wrote in your book, speaking to the the depression that was created from that bout. At the time, I hadn't just lost the title, I'd lost what defined me as a man. How severely depressed did you become and how how would you describe the emotional toll it took on you? Winning the heavyweight championship of the world one day, you an ordinary fellow. You think like an ordinary
fellow anyway. Then you knock out the heavyweight champion of the world. It seemed like the ghost of Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Joe Lewis Jersey, Joe Walcott, all these fellow. They invade you and it makes you something that you've never been before. You. You go into the room with men and you realize I can. They know who I am. I am the man of men right now and you go around the girls, you think he's not an ordinary
fellow. I lost that championship of the world and every ghost disappeared. Jack Dempsey, Joe Lewis, Muhammad Ali, all the ghosts have passed and all of the confidence went away. I didn't just lose the title, I lost myself. I lost who I I defined myself at at that time. I lost it all. How long did it take to get it back it? Was years before I could really look in the mirror and say I'm who I want to be.
I think, of course I found my religious religion and a place in this life that had nothing to do with boxing. That's when I really was totally restored. And you mentioned the the picture that you have of yourself on the mat, the ref counting Ali had knocked you down. Explain why you view that positively now. Oh yeah, I became an evangelist full time, got a new little house, 3 bedroom.
I was really happy with my place and the only picture of my past I displayed with a photograph of Muhammad Ali standing over me and my looking up, being knocked down and losing the championship of the world. First of all, I was proud that I was in such a match and secondly, it's nothing wrong with being knocked down. In life, it's about getting up.
Tell about what happened in the locker room. 28 years old, 1977 lost to Jimmy Young. Strange that I fought my way, I had this hate or I had to be heavyweight champion of the world again. I was going to do anything to get it. Had to pay Muhammad Ali back specifically. So the powers that be put a fight on with Jimmy Young, an elimination fight with myself. The winner of this match would have Muhammad Ali would have an ultimatum to either face me or give up the title.
If I won the title, I got in the ring and I want to prove to the world I had didn't have stamina problems so I would go 12 rounds. Afterwards I lost a 12 round decision. I didn't feel bad. Jimmy Young had won the boxing match, went back into the dressing room and that's when my life changed. Went back, started walking, trying to cool off as normal. You don't have to worry about the boxing match. You still George Foreman. You got money, you got cars.
You could go to your wrench, retire and die. And I'd never said a word like that before. Die. After a while it started to multiply death. And I realized I was about to die in a dirty old dressing room when I had all these places to live in the world. Walk back and forward, trying to keep my body in me. Because life is almost like a smile. You can just lose it. And as I was walking back and forward, heard a voice. Well, you George Foreman, George Foreman, you got a ranch and all
of that. Why are you home and money? Why are you afraid to die? And I've been talking about, I used to go out and talk about religion to everywhere you know about God, because I figure you can get some fans. Muhammad Ali had talked about Muslim. He got fans. I figured I was going to make and the voice said, you believe in God, Why are you scared to die? I said, man, everybody believe in God, but I don't want to die. So I started walking back and forth and I realized I was going to die.
I said, look, I'm still George Foreman to this voice. Nobody. I'm thinking someone's in the room playing with me. I can still give money to charity and for cancer. And the voice answered me back, I don't want your money, I want you. And I remember, boom, tears poured. I looked around the room and I tried to but I figure if I tell them they're going to think I'm crazy and I tried to make a deal. It didn't work and I looked.
My leg gave out of me. I looked around the room and I said hey y'all I'm fixing it before I can say another word. All of my life went out of me. My leg gave out of me and I was in this deep dog place. All around me was nothing like every sad thought. If you multiplied them together there was nothing, no hope. Like someone that dropped me in the deep sea and not a boat on island anywhere. I got mad because I'm the guy with lions and tigers.
I didn't get scared. I said, I don't care if this is death, I still believe there's a God. When I said that, a gigantic hand reached in and pulled me out of nothingness, Just nothing, sadness. And I was alive in that dress room. Evidently they picked me up off the floor and laid me on the table. And I remember saying, hey, I'm dying everybody, but tell everybody I'm dying for God because I've been saved from the thing that I was most afraid of, death. And my doctor stood behind me.
I said, Doctor W, move your hand because the thorns on his head are making him bleed. And I saw blood coming down my forehead. No one else did. And I told Mama, so Mr. Fuller, move your hand. He's bleeding where they crucified it. And I started screaming, Jesus Christ is coming alive in me. And I didn't believe in religion. I thought it was for idiots. People who lose their girlfriends, they go to church. People who lose their money, they go to church. I had my money still, even still
out a girlfriend. And these are words that would never have come out of your mouth. Jesus Christ. Was coming alive at me and I and I jumped off the table. They tried to hold me down. I said I got to go tell the world. I got I got to clean myself and I ran in the shower and started screaming Hallelujah, I'm clean, born again. I went toward the door and they stopped me because I didn't have any clothes on. I said I got to tell the world and I've never stopped screaming at to this day.
Were you conscious that whole time of what was going on around you? I remember one time I looked around the table after this happened, I looked at everybody in the corner. I said, I love you guys, you know what I mean? You and my brothers. And I kissed everybody in the room in the room, I kissed him. And I was a conscious that because my my own brother said, not me. I said everybody said go and kiss him, you know, and I can remember that just as clear.
But I really thought that that was the end of me. I didn't think I would live again. I thought I was just going to say all of that and lay back on the table and be dead for good. Why quit boxing? The punching bag had been Joe Frazier, Muhammad Ali, Ken Norton, you, you name it. That's where I've been beaten. I went back to my home and that that punching bag was a piece of leather cloth. There wasn't anyone anymore. And I just for 10 years, I didn't even make a fist became
just telling that story. Next thing you know, they're calling me Rev Brother. I was ordained an evangelist and I never intended to stop boxing. I just never went back. What led to you eventually starting to preach on street corners? I'd gone to a church and once the fellow asked me, George, why don't you come up and tell what happened to you? And I told him I was walking in the dress room. I saw blood on my hand and blood on my forehead, Jesus Christ coming alive at me.
And, and everybody applauded and I sat down and occasionally the preacher would ask me again to do that. And, and one friend said, George, you know, there's so many preachers in this church, why don't you go out? And I said, I need to preach. I'm tired of just telling that story. They said, well, come on, let me show you. And they took me out on the street corners. And that's where I started my ministry, on the street corners. I'd shave my beloved mustache
away. I didn't have the Afro and I was about £300. Nobody noticed me and I was just tearing them up out there. I preached everything. But the world's coming to an end. We have a chance to visit the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ, which is where you preach. How often do you still preach today? I'm in services on Wednesdays, Saturdays and Sunday evening and the early Sunday mornings, worshiping service on Sunday morning. And that's what I do. That's my profession.
What sort of preparation is involved for that? Being an evangelist and a preacher, I don't have to prepare. It just happened. That's what I do. It's the only thing I do naturally. Really. No, preparation isn't needed. And has it always been that way? Or early on when. It's always been that way. I've never had to prepare for it.
All of a sudden I realized you can't write it because you end up forgetting and saying to write the wrong thing and even writing words you can't even pronounce. So I stayed away from that and I just do what I do. It's natural and it's a duty like a job giving me. It's like waiting on tables or something.
It comes easy. During your decade long retirement before your comeback, where you know you eventually win the heavyweight championship for the world at 45 years old, you end up deciding to go on the 21 day fast. What was involved with that? I once I had a vision that I, I looked, I saw this book open. The biggest thing I've ever seen A book and a word I'd never seen before. It said 21 evangelistic. Never seen the word before. But anyway, I fasted 21 days for a ministry of an evangelist
going without food and water. 21 days. That's a strange thing. I didn't think I would do it, but we were able to accomplish it. What weight did you start off at and what weight did you get down to? You know, I really didn't count the weight. I know I didn't have any clothes once the fast was over. You couldn't fit in that. I didn't fit into anything I had gotten that small. How do you, I mean, tolerate going out, going without food
for that long? And I asked myself on many occasion, how do you tolerate, how do you go 21 days without food? And I still don't know how I did it because some days now I try to go one day and I, I make it about one hour like tomorrow. It's, it's just one of those things that happened to me. I really think it was some form of miracle that I made it. Are you glad you did it? I did when I before I fasted I was I had a lot of problems, a
lot of things. But after that fast you realize the most important thing in the world is something you can even smell dog food. I was out feeding my dog and I was like I never noticed this food smells so good. You realize the whole world is 1 billboard filled with something to eat and all you think about is I wish I had it to eat. And so when I came off that fast, I was no longer worried about money and problems. I just wanted something to eat.
So what was the first meal back? First meal back was I don't think it ever ended. I had a sandwich like a pressed ham sandwich. I love that sandwich. It was something I wanted when I was a little boy. I never could take to school a good ham sandwich. But this time, this pressed ham sandwich was like everything I wanted as a boy. It wasn't a championship of the world. I wanted a sandwich.
You'd made a substantial amount of money during your first boxing career before the decade long retirement. But by the end of that decade long retirement before you came back, how much money had you gone through and how close were you to being out of it? I'd made millions in my first career, literally millions of dollars, and by the time 10 years had gone by, I realized that I wanted to do a lot of good, and it took money to do it.
I did a lot of things with money, and I looked up and didn't have the kind of money I wish I had. And that was one of the reasons I had to make a comeback to boxing. I was no longer the wealthy boxer who had undertaken being an an evangelist. To what extent was that largely the the reason the the fact that you you wanted funding for the youth center and.
One day I was out playing basketball with one of my attorneys and then he wanted we were playing ball, but he wanted to be serious with me and didn't know what to do. He said, George, you have this place, but you got to be careful. You may become one of those bad stars like Joe Lewis, the guy we had so much money and lost everything and you know, this place is costing you a lot of
money. The George Foreman Youth Center and I thought about I'd had Rolls Royce convertible, I had swimming pools and homes and here it is. I'm worried about having fun for this place that these kids need me. And that's when I decided I was going to have to do something, raise some money. And I did as much as I could. And one day a preacher was raising money for me to ask everyone to give to my youth center. And these were poor people. These were poor people. They didn't have anything to
give. And I decided right then I know how to get money. I'm going to be heavyweight champion of the world again. That's how I was getting money from my youth center. Was it a hard decision for you to make to come back because you had been vehemently opposed to anything boxing and fame related for so long leading up to that point? And the one thing that was so difficult for me, I even wore my shirt button all the way to the
top. I said I would never take my shirt off, never be able to get in the ring and hit a person. How stupid. I never would do it and the hardest decision I had in a in a lifetime was to go back and become a boxer again. I was talking to your close friend and long time publicist Bill Kaplan about that and he he kind of recalls it different. He's laughing because he's like, George was like 315 lbs in and he didn't want to take off his shirt because he'd gotten so big.
But how much weight did you have to lose to get back into boxing shape and. You got to understand about weight. I was poor. I mean literally poor without anything. I joined the Job Corps and they gave me 3 meals a day. But then I was out of the Job Corps. I was back into trying to make ends meet working. Next thing you know, I'm a boxer where I have to be tempered. I can't just eat everything I want. So now I'm out of boxing after 10 years or so.
And I could, I had money. I didn't even know a thing about Burger King, McDonald's. I'd go to these places and order hamburgers and I was so embarrassed because they were so delicious. I'd make a turn back and ordered them again and disguised in my voice, I ate, I ate, I ate.
There was over 300 lbs, 300 lbs, and I loved every pound of it because it wasn't like I was going on a diet, eating and then to have to leave and abandoned that weight, something I really admired, was hard to get back into boxing. You were no longer able to use anger as a motivating force as we spoke about. How did that impact things for you as you got back into boxing? I started the gym and I didn't want to start a boxing gym at all.
I just wanted to make certain the youth center was a place kids could hang out. They wanted to box. I had an old ring and I taught them. They'd come in with this chip on their shoulder. I said no, no, no, you don't need that. I'm going to show you how to box. And I put them in the ring with a kid just escaping, escaping. And the kid wouldn't even hit them, just showing them how vulnerable they were. I taught kids never a punch in anger. This is not about anger.
And along the way I learned myself that it never was about anger. It this was an honorable professional way to make a good living. A lot of friends and you don't need anger. As a matter of fact, it's the least of things you want. What a lot of people might not know about you who didn't follow your comeback close is it wasn't like you took a title fight immediately after coming back. It was I think 4 years, 24 fights in before you had the took the title fight.
But the one thing that was different from the start of your comeback on was unlike your first career, when everybody loved to hate you and was booing you. You were the fan favorite and everybody was constantly cheering you in your comeback. What was that change in crowd reception like for you? The the first time around I was angry and I just didn't care. I mean, people booed me and it was great because they were booing the right guy. I was a bad fella the second time around.
I'd had 10 years to make friends with people, you know, I thought you had to be rich and famous for people that like you. People would actually give me a booster when my battery had gone down and I try to pay them. Get out of here, Biggin. I'm offered the last piece of meat at the butcher's store, give it to the big guy. Steward would come up in the in the plane and say we can give you a bigger seat, big guy, but we can't give you a meal. All these people were kind to me
and I didn't have anything. They didn't even know who George Foreman was. They were kind. The second time around. I had all of this kindness to pay back and it was very easy to change temperaments because of that. 45 years old, you end up winning the bat to become heavyweight champion of the world oldest ever, 20 years after you had lost to Muhammad Ali in Zaire. The fondest memory from that fight would be what?
I'm in the ring fighting Michael Moore for the championship of the world and once again I didn't expect the people were cheering for me. People were praying for me second time, first time around, everybody was praying for the other guy. Now I'm a victim of prayer and the fight is over. I get a knock down the tenth round. I looked around, satisfied my fans because I said I was going to come back not for money, but to be heavyweight champ of the world.
That's how I'm going to get my money. So I looked up and I said if I win this thing, I'm just, I never taught religion on television, but I said if I win this thing, I'm going to get on my knees and thank God right there. And I did. I got on my knees and I thank God right on the spot. What would you say, looking back at both of the professional or your whole professional boxing career has been the most satisfying moment for you personally?
I had a good boxing career. Everything went well for me. But a 19 year old boy in the Olympic gold medal, winning that Olympic gold medal in the Olympics, I can't get over it. Even now I said I want a gold medal. It's the most special thing that ever happened to me in boxing. And to give that context too, it wasn't as if you had been training for multiple years leading up to that with the
Olympic Games in mind. It was less than a year out that you started training with the Olympics in mind, right? Yeah, it was about a year. I'd already been a boxer, so I know just chance and a lot of help that I won that gold medal. I'll never forget that. Tell about going to Barbados many years back secretly to take back two of your kids that were unbeknownst to you, taken by your then wife there. Yeah, look up one day and I woke up one day and and I came home
and all my kids were gone. I had two kids just disappeared, a son and a daughter, and I couldn't find them. Found out they were in a small island called St. Lucia in the West Indies. I rented a plane. I couldn't afford all of these. I flew to Barbados and I sit there and Barbados then rented a private plane for Saint Lucia.
I remember even having to keep the pilot wake with coffee and have a friend of mine make certain he didn't get drunk again so he can fly us into the island and fly us back. And when I got there to get the kids, all I did want to bring them back home because the one thing I had not forgotten is that looking for your family, it can be the most harsh thing in the world. And I knew they knew who they were then. I didn't want to lose this.
So I had to literally steal my kids, get on a boat, charter a boat that didn't work that very well, sail all the way to other islands, then back into Barbados and then back into the United States of America. How tense was the moment when you got your kids and you were back at your hotel and then people showed up at the door? Yeah, you get your children, you're back at the hotel. And I look out and there were a
load of policemen. They were soldiers actually, in a truck load of them, with bullets around them telling me to let the kids go. And I remember screaming, I'm not letting my kids go. These are Americans. These are my children. Oh, then you realize you have a name then an American. And they didn't take my kids. They gave me the next day to get things straight. And the next day I was back in the United States of America. And was there concern at that time you didn't know what these
guys were going to? You heard someone I said you to get my kids you're going to have to kill me and heard someone say kill him then. That's actually how you met your current wife, Joan. You know, she was the caretaker for, Yeah, your kids when they were in Barbados. Joan, fifth wife, you've been married I, I think around 30 years. Why do you think having been married before this marriage has been so successful when you know the other one struggled? OK, I'm in to Saint Lucia to
take my kids. Knocked on the door. I found out what they were and here was the babysitter sitting there with the kids. I said, look, I don't want any trouble with you. I just want my children. She said OK, and she gave me the kids. And then she said take me with you because they're going to get angry that I gave you the kids. I took her with me and for over 30 years she's been with me. You heard that, that that old statement about unto death do you part?
I know what it's about now. You never know when you're going to find your love, but you are going to find it. I was shocked. And that Lady I'll be with until I die. And that's that's important to me. Not only I was looking for children, I found them, but I also found my wife. What? Why do you think? What is it about that marriage that you think it has that you know has enabled it to have the? In in the past, I get married and I I always thought that someone needed me.
I'm George Fallon. They need me. But when I met my current wife, my wife Mary, we call her Joan, I needed her and I know I need her and she's always known that I needed her. And that's the difference. Explain the importance of family to you. Well, I have a family of 10 kids by the way, and almost 10 grandkids. Family is most important to me. You, you accumulate a lot of things, you do a lot of things, but at some point you look up and say it was all for family.
You forget that you had all these personal goals way back. It's all about family and I get a chance to share my life with them now. This is very special. This is all. This is my life now, family. You found out who your biological father was much later on in life, and you've said that played a role in the decision to name all of your sons George. Explain why. Yeah, you look around for some roots and you can't find anything, so you decide you better plant something.
I met my biological dad. I was already been heavyweight champ of the world and a grown man. And. And I didn't want my kids to be in that position. I wanted them to have something in common. And I figured, why not give them a name? George Edward Foreman. They're all called the same. And I tell them if one goes up, we all go up. If one gets in trouble, we're all in trouble. It's a family name.
And you don't have to change your name and never anyone have to change the name but change their ways and I tell them either live up to the name or change it. And because all of their names are George, they they also have nicknames. And I told I would tell my wife. She said you need to stop boxing. I said a day I'll forget one of my boys names name, I'll stop boxing. So what? But Terry can. You remember all my name?
Wood Foreman. They're all named George and but you know, you give, give your kids something that we have now. We all have a name and that's very important. And it's up to them if they prefer to keep it. I don't want them looking around for their dad or their brothers as I did. The George Foreman Grill, To what extent has it changed your life? The joy's forming the grill. Well, I'm in the ring with it in Africa and and I'm facing Muhammad Ali everyone.
And then just before the fight I get hungry for a cheeseburger and everyone that's enjoyed, don't eat that slop, that grease. It's going to slow you down. Don't do it. I made them fixing a big skillet, iron skillet, a big cheeseburger, and it was delicious. So I'm in the ring and I'm beating Muhammad Ali. I beat him up. He hits me, of course. I beat him back.
He hits me, of course. Then about the eighth round, seventh round, he asked me, George did all you got, and I thought about that greasy burger. Boom, he knocked me out and I lost the title. So here I am in Michael Moore getting ready to fight Michael Moore for the championship of the world and I'm in shape everything is good. So I get a taste for a burger again kid, everybody said don't do it George, you lost the title before of a stupid cheeseburger. And I said Nope, I got to have
the burger. So my friend Sam promoter, he comes to me George don't don't fry. Look, we have this little contraption. It wasn't didn't have a name on it. Now he said try to put the grill if you like it. He said put the burger on. Now I said I don't want the juice to disappear. He says still going to be juicy, don't worry about it. I said I put thing on there, now the grease ran out, put it on the ate it.
He said you like it, I see it. He said let me put your name on it. I signed my name on the grill and everything got in the ring with Michael Moore. He started beating me up. He looked at me with that same thought. George, is that all you got? I said no, it's the lean, mean, fat reducing grilling machine and I knocked him out and became the oldest man to be heavyweight
champ of the world. Now, if you believe that you believe anything, excuse me. You cut you cut a deal with the grill where instead of just some flat endorsement fee, which is common to pay to athletes or celebrities, you end up signing a deal where you're entitled to 45% of the profits of the grill. Explain how the deal did come about. Well, we were doing. I'd really gotten popular on Madison Ave. We've done Doritos, McDonald's and Meineke, every commercial there was.
We made a lot of money. People would pay you a lot of money to do a commercial. But then after a period of time, Kentucky Fried, they move on to someone else. And finally a friend of mine said, George, you're making all these other companies wealthy, why don't you get your own product? I said, sure, how much you going to pay me? I said no, no, no, no, no. We're not going to pay you get your own product. And we looked around and found the the grill, this grill not in
this current farm. And we formed a joint venture together. And how did you go about even finding it though? I told them, they said, why don't you get? They said let's look around for something. Some promoter and Henry Holmes, a few other guys. We started looking for a great product and we found one. No one wanted to be bothered with it at all. This thing, you know, they had names for it, jokes for it, But I took it and they said try that. And I didn't want to use it, but
my wife insisted. She said it works, George, And the grease really rolled off and it's still tender. I ate it. I said, boy, let's do it. We formed the joint venture, which mean I'd have the lion's share, but I'd have to make it prominent. I'd have to go out and promote it. And I did without money, and nobody put up any money for me to do it. And that's how the joint venture came about. Was a guy by the name of Henry Holmes who comes up with a joint venture idea at.
What point did you know you were on to something? I did the agreement. The thing worked so well and I said I'd give me 16 of the grills. I'd give one to my mom, my aunt, my cousin and put them into my training camps and that's all I thought would happen because they worked so well. I never expected it to be so successful. I got a check once for like $1500. I said what?
Couldn't believe it. I got another check for 15,000 and then all of a sudden the checks just started rolling in that this thing sold over 100 million. Right. And to give the checks some context too, you end up being bought out I think for something like $140 million after what you had already made. Is it true? I mean, at one point checks were coming in for upwards of like $4 million monthly, 5,000,005 million monthly, but before the $140 million.
I was, I fought my last boxing match at Atlantic City and everyone said you were robbed, You were robbed, George. They were Boo in the fight and there my attorney had brought me a check for $1 million royalty on the grill. I said that's not what we call being robbed. In my day, when you were robbed, you didn't have anything. How did the money that you made from the grill?
And it almost seems the stupid question to ask, but how did the money you made from the grill compared to what you made during your boxing career? People ask me to compare the money I made in the grill and the money I made in the boxing and you really can't because they're tied into one. Without boxing, I never could have had anything. Nothing. I think I'm real thankful for being an athlete and have a chance to compete in sports because without that I never would have done anything.
How would you explain the importance of being a good salesperson? And I, when I left boxing, I was so sad because that was, I concentrated all those years and I needed to make a living. But I go out on the street corners and I try to sell Jesus Christ. And most of the time people were going somewhere and coming somewhere and they didn't want to hear. And I said, I'm going to sell this product, not learn to sing. I'd jump and dance on the street and they would pay attention.
I learned to sell. And I realized if I could sell myself to be in the heavyweight champ of the world, I can sell anything if it's trustworthy. And that's what I'm most happy about. And I am a natural salesman. That's what I do. Salesperson galore. That's me. Floyd Mayweather Junior. He considers himself the greatest boxer ever to live. What do you think? Well, anyone consider themselves the greatest that ever live. All you got to do is say it. Just say it doesn't mean anything.
Mayweather evidently draws a lot of attention. It seems that he is the guy that most everyone wants to see beat up. And if you don't, you don't want to live with that. Doesn't matter how much money you get, you just don't want that. Do you see similarities to how people view him in terms of the negativity and how people viewed you back in your first professional career? The difference between Floyd and Mayweather and Joy Foreman. Floyd Mayweather can really box.
He's skillful. All I had was this one punch and if I could hit you with you, I would hit you with it. I could take you out. If I miss you, you win on decision. What do you think makes him so talented? Flawed. Mayweather is talented because he's brought up in the boxing gym. That boy was 10-11 years old in the in the ring, sparring with professional fighters. That's all he knows. His family, they know boxing. It's hard to beat a guy like that.
That's all he has. How does somebody like Pacquiao, how does he avoid overstaying his welcome in the sport? I think the habit of all boxers is to overstay your welcome, that we all think we've got one more boxing match in US and that's probably will be the downfall of Floyd Mayweather, George Foreman, Manny Pacquiao will overstay our welcome. And I think it's time maybe for both to try something else. I mean, if you don't need money, why in the world are you
fighting? What impact do you think UFC is having on the sport? I think that boxing is great but you get a you match 2 great boxes together, no one gets knocked down, no one get no one gets cut, no one get knocked out and it leaves room for UFC people alone for a good fight and you keep giving them nice boxing matches. The UFC will grow and grow and grow. The impact boxing has had more impact on things coming up than
anything else. How would you compare the strength of the sport today to when you boxed? I mean, if you if every boxing match, world title match would have ended like George Foreman run Lyle heavyweight title match, there wouldn't be any UFC, there wouldn't be anything MMA, there wouldn't be anything. But boxing has constantly from time to time gone into another range where people don't know what it is. It's like 1 is scared and the other is glad of it. Those boxing matches have taken
boxing down. And currently the heavyweight champ of the world, he wins boxing matches. But you know, no one knows. No one pays any attention. What level of corruption, if any, do you think exists in the sport today? I think if there was ever any corruption in boxing, it exists in the mind of people who wish there was. You go out to a boxing match and your favorite fella lose like I lost to Muhammad Ali. People could not believe it. So the easiest thing is to say
it was fixed. He fixed it with that right hand. He hit me with there's no fix, just boxing. Do you think there was corruption back then when you know the days of Ali and Foreman and Frazier and. And I look back on that. Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali gave 100%. There'll never be any fights like that in the heavyweight division again. George Foreman and Muhammad Ali, Muhammad Ali flat out with me. There's no corruption in boxing, only those hard right hands that you never forget.
Really a pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for listening to my sit down with George Foreman. He was truly a one-of-a-kind fighter and person and his legacy will endure. Foreman was actually one of the very first celebrities to ever respond to my outreach. We first emailed when I was in high school. I first sat down with him for an interview in New York when I was in college and then later had the opportunity. To spend time with him at his home for this episode filming.
Always very kind, a larger than life personality. In fact, in this taping at one point it's not included. He got irritated because he thought I had my facts wrong, got up, left the interview, only to subsequently come back, apologize, and because he felt so bad. He later sent out a tweet to his 10s of thousands of followers complimenting me. A decent, generous man who's done so much for so many, and will be. Forever missed. As always, if you get a chance,
give us a rating and review. Thanks again for listening.