In Case You Missed It with Christina Williams is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Hey, what's up, guys? Is Christina Williams and welcome back to another special edition of In Case You missed It with Christina Williams here on the iHeartRadio app. And we're just a couple of days away from the twenty twenty five WNBA Lottery drafts and about a month
away from the WNBA Expansion Draft. So here to break it all down with me today is agent, attorney and founder of Disrupt the Game Sports Agency Alison Gaylor and VP of Talent Representation Jackie hilly Moss. Thank you for.
Being here today, Thanks for having us.
So, Alesten, I just want to start from the top. Can you just talk about your journey to starting the Disrupt the Game Agency and what sets Disrupt the Game apart from any other sports agency.
Sure. So, I was super lucky. I grew up in and around the business because my uncle's been in the business forever. So I started interning when I was seventeen, ready to go play basketball low level, not like Jackie or any of our clients at Brown University and learned like basically that the product was amazing on the court in the WNBA. I'd never really been like a fan of the WNBA as a kid, but knew the product was amazing, but we had a bit of a marketing problem.
This was back in two thousand and seven, but basically internal lot through school and then worked for one company out of school and decided to start disrupt the game in April of twenty twelve. So I was twenty two years old. Bit of young and dumb and naive and fearless, I guess, but knew that that the WNBA was going to take off at some point and always felt like players and marketability of the players was going to, you know, kind of be the key that unlocks the growth across
all the women's sports. And yeah, started the agency. Actually, Jackie was one of my first clients. That was twelve years ago, which is crazy, sure was.
And Jackie, you have had a hell of a journey. You started off as a WNBA player, you had some experience overseas, and then you moved on to a coaching stint with the New York Liberty and now you're the VP of Talent Representation that disrupt the game. Can you just break down your journey and how you ended up here. Yeah.
I think for me, I didn't wake up after I was done playing basketball and say, okay, I want to be a sports agent now. I don't think any professional basketball player, or any professional player in their sport is really prepared for what that journey ahead looks like. You know, you try and prepare as much as you can for life after sport, but when you actually get to that point,
it's really hard. And I think that you know, you're trying to figure out your identity and who you are as not a player in your sport anymore.
So that is a really hard transition.
And I kind of fell into the role of an assistant coach with the New York Liberty. I knew I didn't want to coach, but it was just an opportunity that present ended itself for me, and I said, hey, let's do it. Let's give it a try. I can still be in and around the WNBA, so maybe that you know, retirement won't feel as hard. But going through the season solidified my reason I didn't want to be a coach. It's not something that I really wanted to do.
Or had aspiration of doing. But I did learn so much being within that organization and being able to see Jonathan Coldpho, in my opinion, is one of the best gms out there, and just seeing how the business worked from that side of things super interesting and really just insightful and helpful for me, you know, for the future. And then I moved to Portland, Oregon, and I worked at Nike and Corporate for a couple of years because I wanted to get my feet wet there and see what that was all about.
And I just wanted more.
And my relationship with Alison and the relationship to her and I built throughout the twelve years of working together. I saw how impactful she was to people and the women that she represented both on and off the court because she was for me. But I saw her, you know, develop Cheneguo McKay's business and just all the clients that she worked with, and she's just always done really great work. And I wanted to do something where I could also
be impactful. And I think looking at it from you know, a player and then a coach, and then now on the agency side, there's just three different things that I've been able to hit that are really important, and I just I hope that my value is like felt with these women, and that's the hope anyways. But it's been a really awesome journey and I'm super happy where I've landed as a sports agent and just want to make a difference and want to help these women in any way that I can.
There's no one on the agency side besides Jackie that has experienced as a WBA player, WA assistant coach and then now being on the agency side. It's complete, It's super invaluable, for sure.
I agree, just having all those different experiences, it definitely would help them give you lefs tween you're trying to recruit new clients and the w or women's basketball space and beyond. Alison, I want to go back to you because you talked about how your uncle was an inspiration for you to get into the agency side of things. What was it like to be a woman in a male dominated industry in profession when it comes to being a sports agent and owning a sports agency.
Well, you already know, Christina. It's not easy, that's for sure, even within women's sports to be, you know, a woman, let alone a young woman just trying to grind im prove themselves. But I always joke around that I had the trifecta basically young, independent, and female, and it was very easy for people to poke. I mean, when I started through TRUP with the game, most of the agents
in the space were like old white men. To be honest, and fast forward twelve years or even seven years, a lot of the W and BAS stars are represented by women, which is amazing but definitely not easy. You always have to over prepare and be able to prove that you
know what you're doing. I mean, I went to law school a lot in the way of building disrupt the game out and so that helps because I'm a lawyer, so I have a little bit of credibility there, and between that and my uncle being in the business like that was kind of what grounded me for sure.
This year, we've seen the momentum in women's sports across the WNBA women's soccer as well. How have you seen the shift when it comes to the sports agency business. I know that you just talked about how a lot of the WNBA players are represented by women agents, but what other shifts are you seeing or trends happening in the industry.
Every big agency has gotten into women's sports in a very serious way. So there's a lot that has changed on the agency side, because I think there's this perspective that not only is it a growing industry right with everything's up, but there's this perception that there's like all this money in it now, which isn't quite the case yet. Hopefully, once the new CBA hits in twenty twenty six, rising tides will lift all votes and we'll all kind of
rise that way. But I would say most of the agents that were in the space before the last couple of years weren't necessarily in it because they thought this was the most lucrative job for them. It was more like, let's build this all together. And now it's a it's definitely more competitive, that's for sure. But the good thing is Jack and I thrive in competitive environments sure too.
And certainly being former athletes probably help us with that as well. When it comes to developing relationships with clients, what does that recruitment process look like?
And I think Alison and I we do the recruiting piece together. I'm pretty locked in in women's college basketball, and then even more so now just the high school scene as well, because that's where we're at with NIL. So I think first it's just us identifying who we think would be the right fit for disrupt the game. And I think first and foremost we look for the
person and like, does that person fit us? Because I think you have to be able to want to work with these women, you know, and it has to be a situation where you want to do good work for them, and it's a people first business for sure. So I think first and foremost it's that, And then I think we have a good eye for talent as both of us are former players, so we kind of know who's going to stick in the league and who we think is going to be, you know, very dominant and have
a long time in the WNBA. So the recruiting process looks different for each client, but I think for the most part, we go through the university first and see if we can build a relationship in that way, because that just seems, you know, the most organic and natural to get in touch with the player first through their coaching staff at their universities, and then we also learn a little bit more about them too as people, and then you know, if there's the parts to them that
aren't really showcased, you know, from them playing basketball, We're able to just learn a ton from the coaching staff. And then from there it's setting up a call with the player and their parents most of the time because at that point in their career, their parents are usually pretty involved. And then I think once Alison and I get on a zoom call with clients, we pretty much
lock it in from there. I don't know our percentage rate is when you know, after we get on a call with clients, but it's pretty high because I think the dynamic between Alison and I we give the full package,
and what you see is what you get. You know, with Allison, she has her law degree, so everything with contracts, like you're looking at Alison, She's going to be able to handle all that and then you know, the basketball piece of it that is a lot me and I think that it is really invaluable with these women and our clients to have that aspect and that level of just representation through and through.
Over the years, you learn who works for you and who you work for, and it's just it's a relationship with clients. So some clients want to talk to us a lot and that's what they're looking for is more of a relationship, and some want to want us to leave them alone, and so it just it just varies.
But this is the first year we stepped into NIL and we've signed five of the top twenty five players in women's college basketball, which is awesome, and you know, Jack being on board has been a super important piece of that, just to be able to scale and you know, sign more players and get more into it in NIL because we, like I did not step into it once the laws changed in twenty twenty one. I wanted to take a step back and see how it goes. But
the truth is we don't have a choice. We have to get in, you know, even in high school at this point because agencies are going after players, you know, pretty early and helping navigate the college decision for them and then through their college years and then right into WNBA.
You talked about how some athletes just want to play their sport if that's it, but other athletes we have different aspirations in how it's starting as early as high school when it comes to NIL with building an athlete's brand. So how do you approach that from the agency side.
Yeah, basically, we look, we look at each athlete as like a holistic kind of company, right or brand, and we look at them from their sport and what they do on quarter on pitch, they that dictates everything else. So the better they play, the more opportunities come everywhere else. And then we look at obviously, endorsement says low hanging fruit,
that's you know, pretty easy. And then for the higher level of athlete or superstar, whatever you want to call it, then we look into like do they want to get into broadcasts or entertainment or podcasts, or do they want to get into speaking engagements just that there's a whole gamut of things, or even do they want to get into entrepreneurship and build companies because that's really where you know, athletes can make long term, you know, real money. And
so it just kind of depends. We have this corny graphic.
I think it's corny, but I also like it on the our presentations that show like it's a half court and it shows like a play sort of like a mock basketball play, and it shows like here's where the athlete is in terms of basketball, endorsements, speaking engagements, entertainment, and like here's how they all intertwine because they all leverage each other same thing with social media or PR and we try to help put the right pieces together or we just kind of help them with that ourselves.
I think too, to piggyback off of that, I think Alison has done a really good job throughout her career of creating opportunities for her clients off the court. And I think initially for me, that's what really drew me into Alison, because she was so creative and she was really passionate about like life off the court as well. So I do think like within this agency, we do go above and beyond for our client and we try and look past just the basketball court and their WNBA
or NWSL careers. And I think it's really special and it's really valuable to have that piece of it. And I think that I've been fortunate enough to be able to learn from that too and try and apply whatever I can to benefit the athlete as well.
I'm interested in hearing any interesting stories about how you got the opportunity to rep someone. I know that former number one picture a Gooomckay is a client of Viewers. WBA champion Benijelanney Hamilton is also a client, so you all have a very elite roster of athletes that you represent. Any interesting stories about how you were able to recruit someone to disrupt the game.
One of my favorite stories is Crystal Dunn and I were connected through a mutual friend and they had asked like, is it okay if Crystal reaches out to you? And she literally sent me a text like, Hey, this is Crystal Dunn. I'm a player for that and of yourselves North Carolina Courage and the US women's national team. Is it okay if we chat on the phone sometimes? And I literally picked up the phone and called it right away. I was like, you don't have to introduce yourself to me.
I know exactly who you are. But players are humans at the end of the day, and a lot of players don't have to engage with a lot of people, and so our job is really a big connection point to their relationships, you know, across the board, whether it's with their sporting team on basketball or soccer, or endorsements or we're like kind of the relationship connective tissue.
CREUS has there been an uptick and interest and when it comes to sponsorships and endorsement opportunities, for these women athletes that you represent, because I know a couple of years ago the statistics number wise was like these athletes received less than one percent of sponsorship dollars and endorsement dollars. Has there been a sort of uptake in the last.
Year incrementally yes, overall? Is it like a super material difference in you know, the status of our business? Like no, I mean yeah, I would say the biggest change came from twenty twenty into twenty twenty one, Like not to put her tea out there, but the business of genev wom K kind of doubled overnight in terms of endorsements because all the sudden brands were like, oh, we should invest in black women and where do we find black
women WNBA? And who's visible in the WNBA. Cheney obviously was one of the more visible players throughout her playing career. And so yeah, I think from twenty twenty one to now, there's way more brands in the space. They're spending more money, but on a per player basis, not every player is going to get you know, six figure endorsements on a year over year basis. But with that said, we've had more clients get more deals than ever before, which is amazing.
What role do you see the media playing into all of that, Like, how do you advocate for these players to get more representation in the media for those sponsorship opportunities.
The relationship between media and players is one that we're all collectively trying to improve, right because some players see the value of media. Some players don't because they already feel like they're so accessible during season, you know, before games, after games, et cetera, et cetera. Media is super important, and players getting out there with their person and who they are is super It's it's easy to watch them play and be like, oh, that this is how they
play basketball. But personality wise, most most people don't know the personalities of a lot of players, and so media is the medium in which that happens. So super important, but sometimes it takes an effort to to get them there. Like Kelsey Mitchell just did a piece in the Player's Tribune and she spent a lot of time on it, and like we were, you know, we tried to be as additive as we could, but it definitely was a collective effort with her and the Players Tribune to get
it where it needs to go. But it's it's tricky, you know, things that aren't paid right to justify the time that it takes for those athletes when they're already so busy doing what they need to do for their sport. So it's a it's a push and pull for sure.
Really understand then, Yeah, Jess, I just actually just read that Kelsey Mitchell piece on the on the Player's Tribune and it was it was definitely heartfelt because she's controlling her own narrative, right, and we're seeing a trend of athletes being able to do that on their various platform Shane Boo McKay on ESPN Breaking News. Well, so it's very interesting to see how your clients have taken the
lead on things like that. So how important is it from an agency's perspective to continue to build these relationships with media.
The more proactive media is, even if they're bugging us, the more opportunities typically go their way because Jackie and I are like good humans first, at least we think we are, and so we're not going to leave you on red and not respond, right, So the more annoying you are, like Christina, you do a great job of reaching out and just shooting your shot, and the more you shoot your shot, the more you're gonna hit. So
I would just say be as proactive as possible. We're easy to reach, sort of easy to reach, but just be as proactive as possible, and ultimately media will get more and more opportunity with players even just to like have people stop reaching out and just like do it already, like.
Go, chances are Alison won't respond, and then I'll be the one that responds.
That is spec typically outworks. We play good cup back cop.
For people who may be interested in becoming future sports agents, what advice would you give them?
Go intern and work for different agencies and get a feel for what you like and where you can make an impact and make sure you're providing value for people, and then just try to get in where you fit in. The more experience you have in practical experience, sometimes the best way to learn is trial by fire. Jackie can attest to that. I could attest to that too, and
just figuring it out. It's a lot of them make them up business still in women's sports, like it's you figure it out as you go, and the more proactive you are, the more opportunities come your way. In for your clients too.
All Right, we're gonna pause right there, and we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back more from Alison Gaylor and Jackie Haley Mos from Disrupt the Game. Now, let's get into the bread and butter of this interview. The w NBA Draft lottery is coming up this weekend. What does the process look like from the agency side of things?
Basically, so for for us, our two clients that hopefully will be lottery picks, or at least that's the plan, our Anissa Moro from LSU and then Kikiri often from USC. That's the thing we can do for Anissa and for Kiki is just keep them informed. Hey, the lottery is happening on Sunday. Here are the teams that could potentially have the top four picks. Bays you know, the Valkyries are coming in with a fifth pick. Just education is super important and just making sure there is informed as
possible so that there's no no surprises. But them staying in the loop on stuff is important. And that's an adjustment for us too. Is like we're not used to representing players in college. We're used to recruiting players in college until the draft and then we're like dumping information, you know, onto them with them, et cetera. So this is definitely unique and different, but in a very positive way for sure.
And when it comes to, you know, just this entire process, how are you talking through when it comes to the draft process where you see players gets rapt to the right organization based on the fit or based on like this, the numbers with the salary cap, how are you explaining that entire process to maybe the rookies that will come in.
We always tell our players it's about fit, not about number, even though number is you know, for confidence sake, for ego's sake, except like that's if you're a number one pick or number two pick, like that's for life. But same thing if you're number five pick. I mean, we we talked to jac Sheldon about that at length going into this draft process this past year where she was
the fifth overall pick to the Dallas Wings. We wanted to make sure she was gonna be with a team where she would get opportunity, because it's it's great if you get picked high, but like if you're not, if you're going to a team that you don't necessarily fit with that's that's not good and the money is negligible, Like on the NBA side, going from pick four to pick five, like you might be losing you know, four or five hundred thousand per year on that drop. Like WMBA,
it's it's the same. It's literally picks one through four get x amount of dollars, picks five, three, eight, get y amount of dollars, you know, except it's just it's not that material of a difference to.
Just like level setting expectation, because look, when a when a player goes into a team, especially in their first four years, like the situation might not be the best, right, there could be a lot of different things that happen. And I think in college, like players can transfer so easily now and just enter the transfer portal and they can just kind of lead their situation very easily. And
then the WNBA it's a little bit harder. You know, there's a lot of things you have to go through to figure out how to get traded and to get moved.
It's not as easy.
So I think Alison and I try and level set expectation with that too of just like okay, like here's a situation, and here's what we kind of have to do, you know, to get through it kind of thing.
Then you see the CBA opt out impacting free agency, impacting the draft process in the future.
I mean, the CBA opt out is going to be interesting as it relates to like the startup season in twenty twenty six, right, because if the CBA doesn't get done before the season, that would mean that there's some type of lockout or something where there's an impasse and the CBA has to get done for players, you know, players and teams to play like the WNB cannot take form in games until and unless the CBA is papered and signed, and so I think as far as I know,
but yeah, it's going to impact free agency. There's gonna be a lot more analysis and strategy and ingenuity that's going to come on the team side, and then also on the agent side, because there's going to be a wider range of salary numbers and other things in the CBA that you can negotiate. That's going to require more thought and more more planning and more process, and that's going to weed a lot of people out. It's going to be fascinating, to be completely honest, because when big
change happens overnight. Some people are gonna get with it and some people, you know, some teams, some agents aren't. And so we're we're going to be with it, that's for sure.
You mentioned Kelsey Mitchell's Players Tribute article and within that piece she spoke about wanting to explore free agency. How does that look and a year of an expansion draft where teams can protect certain amount of players and she's a free agent.
There hasn't been an expansion draft in the WNA for a very long time. This is super new. Most of the people that are in GM spots, agent spots, you know, players, never have been through it before. But basically, as it relates to free agents, teams are going to have to protect those players to retain their you know, their ability to core them if that's something that they're interested in.
So where Kelsey would come in is that if if Indiana wants to preserve the rights to core her, you know, if and when they do that, come come early January, they're going to have to protect her, which is normal, you want to preserve your rights basically, but it's going to be it's going to be interesting, for sure, and a lot of change when when a new team's coming in, and then you look at twenty twenty six, where two new teams are going to come in with the new CBA.
That's a lot a lot more jobs, which is good for people in our position because that's more more players getting opportunity. But it's also going to come with more malleability across the board of of what players are getting paid and how many years they signed for, and just there's with so much change, it's hard to commit to things long term in my opinion at least because you
kind of want to see how they go. And I think there's gonna be a lot of movement in twenty twenty five free agency and a lot of one year deals for those free agents because everybody's going to want to be a free agent going into twenty twenty six.
I guess Jackie, you can speak to what trends that you're seeing in free agency movement, Like what are players prioritizing when it comes to being a free agent.
Yeah, I mean, I think players just want to be happy and they want to be in a situation where they can thrive on and off the court. And you know, every player has different needs and wants, But I think at the end of the day, like really good players, they want to win and they want to be in an organization that is, you know, has the potential to win. And then there's some people that have a different priority. You know, they want to be the go to score.
They want to be that you know, that go to players, So maybe not being on a winning team is as important to them.
I think it varies.
But from my experience with our clients, all of our clients want to be in a situation where they can win and do well and be happy off the court. Like that's the perfect situation, right, But not every situation is going to be completely perfect. But it's all trial and error and we just do our best to kind of, you know, help them get to the place that we think will be best.
Working ahead to twenty twenty five, I mean, you just mentioned that a lot of players are going to sign these one year deals. When it comes to the expansion and free agency and the CBA opt out, what are you both looking forward to the most when it comes to the future of the WNBA.
It's a very easy answer from our perspective, at least from my perspective, because we obviously want the players to get paid more and in terms of their on court salary and not have to be so dependent on off the court income because they're making more and they can you know, support their lives through what they make in
their WNBA salary. So that's definitely one thing I'm looking forward to is players just getting more of their you know, the line share of what they're helping build in terms of overall you know, league revenue and that type of thing. Maybe not the line share, but at least a more proportional portion of it.
Yeah, I mean I agree as well. I think players the need for wanting to go overseas has just decreased over time. You know, as someone who played overseas for eight years, like the experience for me was invaluable, but I was also in a very different position where I needed to go play overseas in order to have a spot in the WNBA. But yeah, I mean, increased salaries is definitely the goal and the hope for all these players because they deserve it.
Well, I want to thank you both for being on this episode of In Case You Missed It with Christina Williams here on iHeartRadio. It's been a pleasure to chat with you both and get some insight at the WNBA lottery draft and the expansion draft coming up.
Thank you, Christina. We appreciate you having a son and really like what you're doing with your podcast.
Thanks for having us.
All Right, y'all, we got to pay some bills, so we're going to take a quick little break and when we come back, we have the Things that I loved this week. Stay tuned, we have more coming up. Welcome back to in case you missed it with Christina Williams. I just want to thank Allison and Jackie again for coming through talking all things WNBAH draft, lottery and expansion draft. And now it's time for my favorite part of the show,
the Things that I love this week. So recently, my friends from middle school and I we did a holiday themed friends giving where each person came dressed up as their favorite holiday. So naturally I stressed up in a onesie Christmas pajama. My friend LaToya also did the Christmas thing. We had some cute little reindeer glasses. I hit friends that celebrated and have pajama themed single De Mayo Black History work, which is a really cool theme, Pajama Pride Month, Easter,
my friends got really really creative. I think that it was something that was much needed. We had it pot luck style, so everyone.
Brought a dish.
The girl was in charge of bringing the fried chicken, and my friend Nicole, I'm sorry to Cole, I will put you out there, but she's one of the friends that can't necessarily cook, so she bakes some really interesting cookie desserts and it was it was really interesting. I love you, Nicole, but it was. It was great to just spend time with some of my childhood friends and
just getting a little bit of TLC. I mean, I think this month, and I can speak for everyone, it was it's spent a little bit of hard, you know, post election results, and so it was great to just be in communion with some of my friends from childhood and uh, just appreciate where we are in life and have that sense of gratitude since it's kind of a month of gratitude. And so yeah, that was a lot of fun to you know, have that friends, given we
were big ass kids too. We had little games like we actually played penditel a donkey and I actually lost because we were supposed to get spinned around three times. And my friend's show show, she spent me around six times and so your girl was dizzy and almost spell But anyways, that was something that I love. This week much needed quality time with my friends and so don't
forget to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast. Next week we have USC women's basketball head coach Lindsay Gottlie joining us, so you don't want to miss that, and that's going to do it for this show. Peace in case you missed it with Christina Williams is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Six