She's pickled inside and out. She's toughened inside and out. She's lost pretty much everyone close to her by death, disease, or her own bad behavior. She's burnt a million bridges, but she just keeps going because she has nothing. You know, she has no other form of resistance than to keep persevering. I do find that quite admirable in any ways, she puts up with conditions that would flaw most people.
I'm Jen Kelly from The Herald Son and this is In Black and White, a podcast about some of Australia's forgotten characters. Today, we're back for part two of the story of vaudeville performer Mabel Walley. Make sure you listen to part one first. We're chatting again with Carin Ball, Senior curator at the History Trust of South Australia. As we heard in part one, Mabel gave birth in a destitute asylum after falling pregnant in scandalous circumstances, then ran
away and joined a circus. Left part one, Mabel was beginning her journey onto the stage. Let's jump back in to find out what happened next. So back to South Africa. So eighteen ninety nine. What's happened next? So they finished the tour and then home, Yes, so without incident, I hope without incident.
Yes, they come home briefly, and then they start another contract in nineteen oh three, and the trail kind of goes a little bit cold there. I haven't quite worked out how Eleanor who is then going by a stage name which I'm not going to tell you. I'm going to be a bit kober. She eventually makes her way back to Australia, I think via England, but I don't have any records of her performing there, but I'm fairly
certain she arrives under her stage name in England. But somehow, at some point, by nineteen oh four, she's back in Australia and Mabel is in trouble. So Mabel has been I don't know what she's been doing between nineteen hundreds and nineteen oh four, but something goes terribly wrong and there seems to be a rift between Mabel and her daughter. So by nineteen oh four, her daughter is now nearly sixteen, and you know, I've got a sixteen year old girl home,
so I know what they're like. And this young lady has a mind of her own. She wants to play on the stage, and she wants to be in the circus with her uncle, Mabel's brother. And Mabel is really starting to get into trouble with the law. She's living in Melbourne, away from the circus from the family show. She starts to get into trouble for bad behavior and
living rough and for drinking in public. And soon in nineteen oh five, she really things go really badly for her and she gets a four year sentence for being an accessory to larceny. So, yes, something has gone terribly terribly wrong, and I don't know what it is, and I will never stop looking to try and unpick this. I don't know exactly what happens. There's some kind of family rift and she and her daughter part ways. Okay,
a Pentridge. So in the book there's the mug shots, which I think you've seen, And that was when I found those. When I found those mug shots on the Public Records Office of Victoria website, I think that was twenty eighteen. I hadn't ever actually seen a picture of Mabel until then. We didn't know what she looked like when we did the gallery, and so the only images
I've ever had of her have been mugshots. Yeah, it doesn't both as well, but you know, so she gets this, she gets this sentence in nineteen oh five, and by the time she comes back out again, she is aged a decade and she's only been in prison for three years.
And just for the benefit of our listeners, can you describe the mugshots or what you draw from those mug shots?
Yeah, so the first one is done not long after she's been sentenced. I'm assuming she's had her hair cut, so her hair is very short. She obviously wouldn't be a thing, wouldn't cause any issues now, but at the time was very demeaning for women to have their haircut. It obviously was to do things like prevent life, but yes had the extra added dimension of making them almost unwomanly because women always had long hair at the time.
So she has this short, very short haircut. Her face is kind of round, and she has this almost kind of deer in the headlights look. And so she's got a face on face on and a side profile. And then next to that are two photos in similar so her face on a profile that were taken in nineteen oh eight, just before she's released, and She's only thirty six in that second set of pictures, but she looks a decade older to me.
She actually actually looks to me like she's in her fifties. But she does have like a hint of a smile on her face, which I found quite intriguing. I was wondering what was making her smile. Perhaps something the photographer said.
Well, I think she's had a really rough time while she's been inside. You know, she hasn't seen her family for over three years. All sorts of things have happened in the background, and really I think she's at a point where they can't really throw anything else at her. She has experienced the worst that she can experience. Also, she thinks at that point, and I think she discovers this kind of grit inside her that has to get
her through this three year sentence. Yes, so she does have this kind of knowing smile almost or she's really kind of you know, eyeballing the photographer and saying, you think you're in a position of power, but I've got this structure that is holding me up inside.
Now, Karin, if you're happy to share the mugshots with me, I would love to add them to the story that accompanies this podcast for our readers to see. So that's the story that's in The Herald's son in print and also online. Are you happy to do that, of course, so that readers and listeners can see what we're talking about as well.
Yes, she's an interesting looking lady. She's certainly not beauty by the standards of the day, but she has real in her face and that was one of the things I think that really kind of spurred me onwards.
Absolutely. And while we're talking about photos, there's a picture on the front of your book, and it's not a photo of her, but it's what you have imagined she might have looked like during her circus career. So where did you get the picture from? And can you describe what that picture is like?
So it's a postcard from the National Library of an unnamed French artist performing artist. So it's a black and white picture that's been colorized by hand. So it's a lady with a gorgeous pink kind of chiffon, almost Greek goddess kind of costume, but very short in the leg. You can just see a little kind of flash of white tights underneath, and she's holding a set of diablos, so juggling sticks with the string and the little kind of yo yo thing that jumps on the string. And
so she is in this beautiful kind of classicals. She's got ribbons in her hair, her lips have been painted. It's just just as soon as I saw it, I said, that is the cover of the book, and so it's my own little piece of vaudeville and circus flim flam. It's not Mabel, but it certainly could have been someone like Mabel, and it's very likely that she wore something
like that when she was performing. You know, the whole the whole circus of vaudeville thing is about an actor would be given a new costume and new makeup and then passed off as a new person or four different acts would actually be comprised of the same people, but they've been you know, they've had changes to make them look like different people. So there's there's all this kind
of sleight of hand that happens in these shows. You know, a performer like Elna, who might have been seven or eight or nine, would be would be billed as a child of five Summers, you know, to make it seem more exciting. That they're younger than they should than they actually are, all of these things. So using that picture, yes, it's my own way of kind of getting into the mindset of in vaudeville and theater truth, whatever you say it is. So there we go. That's where that picture comes from.
I look at that picture and I think, how far has she come in her life from this destitute asylum girl to this amazing world, This amazing world where she's traveling around the world, this vaudeville life, traveling from continent to continent on the stage. She came so far and then she fell so far to end up in Penridge for four years for the crime of larceny, you know, an incredible an incredible, colorful life, a tragic life. Do we know any more about the crime that she ended up in Penridge for?
So she's an accessory to larsony. So essentially what happens is that she meets a gentleman called mister Pert on the streets in Melbourne and she takes him back to a hotel where her side man or whatever beats him up.
So it's a shakedown. The intimation is that she may have been doing sex work, although she's not actually accused of prostitution in her trial, actually recommends clemency, but the judge is not having it, and he gives her this four year sentence and she serves just under three years. So she's just at the really unfortunate end of some new kind of legislation and the way of dealing with
particularly destitute women on the street. There was a lot of anxiety in Melbourne in the late nineteenth early twentieth century that street population was increasing and that it's you know, a place of immorality and bad behavior and sex and money and all this kind of stuff. So she's really unfortunate that she's kind of tired with this thrush because up until then, the worst offense that she'd committed was bad language. And she gets, you know, she gets a
fine for that. What she does five days in the lock up if she can't pay the fine, that sort of thing. So she's very much at the edges of the criminal world at that point, and then she gets this stinging sentence and when she comes out, really that means that she is now considered part of the criminal underclass and it all goes downhill from there. Essentially. Yeah, poor Mabel, it's like watching a car craft from one hundred years distant, and every time I just wish, just once,
just please once, can she not muck it up? You want her to do well. She tries so hard in some ways. In another way she doesn't try at all, because that's mable for you. But you know, she has this spirit and spark that I found completely irresistible. So when things start to go wrong, she starts to slide down the social scale and she ends up with a
series of sentences for being drunk and vagrant. So because she's on house, she's homeless, and she's living rough and you know, working and doing all this sort of stuff. And so she's in and out of Penridge, in and out of Pentridge, in and out of Pentridge. She does a couple of sessions with people like the Salvation Army, and there's St. Vincent de Paul's to do what we would now think of as probably rehab because she's drinking
by this point. But nothing really sticks for her, and so she just the next few decades are really moving from place to place, trying to make her fresh start and then unsuccessfully doing so. But she does have some really big adventures along the way. So as she slides down the social scale. She'd becomes stuck in this cycle of she is living rough, she's drinking, she's getting into trouble.
She does a few short sentences and then she's of course more noticeable to the police because she's been in the lock up recently, so she tries to make a break for it. She actually comes back to South Australia in nineteen twelve and she's trying to she's trying to do the best she can. But within a few days really of landing, she's back in prison for sleeping rough on Hindley Street. She can't leave Hindley Street, you know,
it's her home and her spiritual home. And so she is given a chance and she's allowed to leave Adelaide to make a new start in the country, and she ends up in Port Lincoln and she very quickly shacks up with a very unsuitable man called MacDonald. At this point she's putting on a Scottish accent and pretending that she's from Scotland. She's using this theatrical vent all the time, which is another reason why I'm so fond of her.
She's just clearly very clever and thinks on her feet but when she's in Port Lincoln, she does a couple of short sentences for being drunk. By that time, she's actually addicted to methylated spirits, so she's desperate for a drink. And so when she's in Port Link and Jail, at one point she just pushes a load of boxes against a low fence in the cell yard and hooks it over a ship. Yeah, she stated this wonderful one woman prison break. She's picked up an hour later by the car. Oh,
desperate for a drink. She says she feels like she's dying because she has probably got the DTS, so she probably really feels like she's dying. So, yes, it's not a very successful prison break. But just the fact that she sees this opportunity and decides to take it good for her quite charming. Yes, you know, she just refuses to be contained.
So how old was she at this point?
So that's nineteen twelve or third, So she's forty at that point. She's still young by any.
Yeah, and she's still got plenty of years.
To live she has, Yes, she's got plenty of plenty of spirit and spark. But you know, once she's caught after having made this one woman prison break, she gets sent to Adelaide jail and then it's all over. You know, she can't there's no more coffee over fences when you're at Adelaide jail. And unfortunately she's also caught up in a cycle of another piece of legislation that doesn't work in her favor. So in nineteen thirteen, South Australia introduces the
Inebriates Act. It's a way of dealing with problem drinking. There's a lot of social concern about excessive alcohol consumption, of course, particularly by working class people, and women's drinking in particular is seen as really problematic because there are all sorts of implications for the you know, for the future of Australia as a nation, and the sort of people and children that women are producing if they're you know, if they're a low character or low physical attribute because
they're drinking. So there's a lot of anxiety about this sort of thing. So South Australia introduces this new legislation which convicted inebriates. If you get if you get arrested for being drunk more than three times in a twelve month period, you're then given a compulsory sentence as a convicted inebriate, and the first sentence is eighteen months, the second sentence is two years, and the third sentence onwards
is at his at his majesty's pleasure. So really unfortunately, whereas in Melbourne she might have got three months, four months, six months for being drunken disorderly, in Adelaide she's suddenly doing these very very long sentences.
So the prisons must have just been full.
Well, see what happens is that Adelaide Jail and sorry part of Adelaide Jail and Gladstone Jail are gazetted as inebriates institutions, so they become this kind of place that we would now think of potentially as rehab. You know, it's supposed to be an inebriates retreat, it's supposed to be a place where they can dry out and you know,
get back on their feet, but essentially it's jail. They're in jail being looked after by prison warden's doing exactly the same backbreaking work that prisoners are doing, and in fact they're in for longer sentences and then they're subject to more stringent controls afterwards because they're released on license and if they break their license again then they immediately
get the second longer sentence. So she does eighteen months and she's only out for a month or two, breaks her license and she has to go back in again for two years, and she begs in begs in court, you know, please don't send me back there. I've just done nineteen months actually at Gladstone, and you know, she comes down to Adelaide and she has some teeth out, and she has some cocaine which is legally prescribed, but then she decides to have a couple of glasses of
brandy on top and passes out in light square. Because she's broken her parole, she is sent back for two years. So it's a really quite tough system, and she is right at the pointy end of it. She is Gladstone's female and the Brittan number two and Adelaide Jail's female neb Brittan number four, So she is right at the beginning of this new system coming in and it doesn't
play out well for her. Over the next decade, between nineteen thirteen and nineteen twenty three, she spends what years, nearly seven or eight years in jail in total, and she's only out for weeks sometimes months before she's back again,
and it's really tough conditions as well. And then of course the war comes and everything gets tougher, you know, the rations get tougher in prison, and water is really bad at Gladstone and they have to boil it all and it's just a really, really unpleasant environment.
We'll be back shortly to hear more about Mabel's life, so stay with us. And after that, did she get out for good or was she still in and out of prison for the rest of her life?
Oh, Mabel. She eventually goes back to Melbourne in nineteen twenty three, so she you know, she has burnt all her bridges, but the magistrate who picks her up gives her a train pass and tells her to go. You know, they'll hold off sending her back to prison if she you know, for a day or two until she leaves. And at this point she's still trying to get in
touch with her brother's circus. Her brother circus has been to New Zealand for several years and then come back, and she says that she's going to meet them at Langhorn Creek at one point, but then she MUCKs it up again and she ends up in the Slammer when they're going past and she misses them. She she marries Big Musley in nineteen eighteen, so she marries her second husband while her first husband is alive and well in Western Australia, and her second husband is another one of these.
His name is Patrick Madden. He's a tall, quite good looking Irishman who's also one of these people who drinks in the west end of Finley Street, around Light Square and all that lot. She comes out of prison just after Armistice in nineteen eighteen, so the end of the war in nineteen eighteen. She's only out for three days before she marries Patrick Madden, so something must have been going on there. They must have known each other beforehand, or it was a really well wind romance. But it
doesn't last. He's back in the Slammer in weeks and so is she, and there's no indication that they actually reconcile in any way. So yeah, she's living this very kind of hand to mouth life when she's not in prison, but the bulk of her time she is in prison, which is why in nineteen twenty three she takes this free pass to go back to Melbourne, and after that she never comes back to South Australia, which is really
quite sad. So she's in Melbourne and she has all these great ambitions that she's going to live a life of the straightened arrow and she's going to be a good girl. But that never really works out for Mabel. She just can't help herself, and really, I mean she becomes institutionalized. So she does again more sentences for being vagrant, for being drunken, disorderly, for bad language, and really spends the next ten years after she gets back to Melbourne
doing that. It's a pretty sad it's a pretty sad tale. But again has all the you know, has the occasional light moment. She's arrested at one point for dancing in the middle of Victoria Street in Melbourne's CBD in the middle of the night, and you know it, goes off to Pentridge to do a few weeks after doing that. So she has these wonderful little light moments, and you know,
she's she's lived a very vibrant life. She's very interested in music and the stage, I think, and I think there are lots of you know, live performance is still a massive, massive thing at that point. So I think she's trying to kind of move in this in this world, and you know, maybe she hangs around theater doors and you know, tries to get in and see shows and
stuff all that kind of thing. I don't have a lot of evidence about what her life outside of prison is like, other than the fact that she is writing letters to try and catch up with her brother's circus, and she's trying to you know, she does more time with the Salvasian Army in Melbourne as well, having done time with them in Adelaide. So she tries all these different approaches, but nothing quite sticks for her. And then towards the end of her life, it's the nineteen thirties,
the depression has come. Street life in Melbourne is really tough, you know. Nineteen thirty three, George Orwell releases his book Down and Out in Paris and London, which tells you a lot about what life on the street would have been like at this period. And women are a very small part of this world. You know, they might be five to ten percent of the homeless population in Melbourne
at the time. You know, they are a tiny, reviled subset of a subset of society that has already reviled by the mainstream, and so it's a really tough existence, you know. But you can see by her criminal record that she is essentially living a living rough in a patch of suburbs that moves around from Melbourne, North Melbourne, Carlton, Fitzroy. She's kind of pacing these areas like almost like a
caged animals and the institutionalized. She doesn't want to be in jail, but she also can't cope when she's not in jail. It's a sad thing to have to watch and to put myself in that mindset. I actually spent a long weekend in Melbourne in the rain, walking around those cobblestone streets in Fitzroy and Carton and North Melbourne, trying to feel what that felt like. And it was
quite it was quite challenging. You know, I'm a woman over fifty and I was walking around these streets in the rain and the cold, and I could go back to my hotel any time I liked. It was really you know, illuminating to kind of put myself in that mindset of you know, what would it have been like for her, you know, she would have been going from.
You know, she might have had a cup of tea for breakfast with the Salvation Army in one suburb and then walked to the other side of the city to go and have lunch at a soup kitchen, and then walk to a different suburb for the evening to find somewhere to doss, you know, for a doss house or under a bridge, or she might have been able to
get into a temporary accommodation of some description. But she doesn't like doing though, is because the approach in lots of those places is plain food, lots of prayer, lots of introspection. I think that really works for her. So she is moving around this small set of inner Melbourne suburbs trying to make her way in and out of prison.
And one of the things that I realized when I was doing the research for this, as she gets older, the gaps between her incarcerations get shorter and shorter and shorter. In her thirties or forties, she might have had months, maybe even half a year or a year or more where she's not in prison. When she's in her fifties and going into her sixties, she's out for a fortnight or a week three before she's back in again for three months or two months or a month or whatever.
So it's a very kind of relentless, relentless life.
And she was obviously a heavy drinker, and she spent years in prison, so it's pretty remarkable that she lived such a long life. So she was what late sixties or early seventies by the time she dies.
She dies and she's pickled inside and out. She's toughened inside and out. She's lost pretty much everyone close to her by death, disease, or her own bad behavior. She's burnt a million bridges. But she just keeps going because she has nothing. You know, she has no other form of resistance than to keep persevering. And I do find that quite admirable in many ways. You know, she puts
up with conditions that would flow most people. She endure, endures trauma and tragedy that would you know, sideline anybody, But she keeps going, you know, there's that phrase. But she persisted, and she does. She just keeps going because she has no other choice. She has, you know, she has not a lot of education, not a lot of family left by this point, very few options. She doesn't really have a skill or a trade. She's done a hell of a lot of laundry and a hell of
a lot of sewing in prison. She probably never wants to scrub a floor again, you know, and she's you know, this is the inverse of her high points of her career of being on the stage in New Zealand, giving this vital, exciting life under the electric lights of the theater.
And then I hope she at least had her memory right up until the end and could remember those incredible days.
Oh absolutely she does. Because one of the things I found very late in the piece while I was doing my trip to Melbourne where I and that was like there was that little window in twenty twenty one where you could go to Melbourne for a few weeks at the beginning of twenty twenty one when they between their lockdowns, and that was when I went and walked around in the rain and literally I was at the airport on the way back Google it, you know, going through Trove,
which is the online newspapers through the National Winmy of Australia one hundred percent recommend fabulous resource. I was looking just to see if I could find an end to this story because I've spent this weekend, you know, walking around in the rain feeling, oh my god, how the hell am I going to end this story? And I found a newspaper report that says that she is sent to Ballarat Benevolent Home in mid to late nineteen thirty six. She's had a fall of suther description probably just you know,
a drunken tumble in the street. Although she says in that she's interviewed or she's interviewed by repute, it says that she's had an accident in the circus. But that's poppycock. You know, she hasn't been in the circus for twenty or thirty years at that point. But you know, as Mabel always does, she tries to put a gloss on it.
And so she's at Ballarat Benevolent Asylum and she catches wind that her brother's circus is coming to Ballarat for the first time in a long time, and she pulls whatever strings she has left and she gets the old men from the asylum to be able to go to
the circus show for free. Fabulous. So yeah, she doesn't go because she is bedridden after a fall that she In the report, it says, you know, because she's had an accident when she was working in the circus, which, as I said, I know that that's not correct, so she doesn't go, but she makes this arrangement so she's still even after all that time and all the bridges that she's burnt and all the people that she's lost,
she has enough connections to make that happen. And that was a wonderful way for me to finish the story, because she dies only a few months later. She dies early in nineteen thirty seven, and it just seemed to me,
you know, it's her final performance. She has this very very high and then she has these very very lows, and then I like to think of her, you know, tucked up at ballaratte Asylum in her bed, you know, sending telegrams or making these requests for the circus to come, and she's got this captive audience for all these incredible tales that she can tell, these tall stories, and some of them might even be true, and you know that she can have this one last performance of being this
aging circus star who still has some cachet and can still pull these strings. And to me, that was just a wonderful place to end did because it's like a
kind of you know, last minute redemption of her. And I was so pleased when I found that newspaper report because I had really worried about how I was going to finish this really quite tale and then yeah, so she's just doing this last little show just for the audience of the Benevolent Home, pretending to be you know, the former start of stage and ring that in some ways she was. And so yeah, that was that was
the end. She dies very early in nineteen thirty seven of senile decay, which is you know, it was very commonly listed as the cause of death, but realistically she was pretty pickled by that point. And she is buried at Ballarat New Cemetery, which I went to last year. Had a little cry. She's in an unmarked section, so
there's just a lawned area. A lot of the older particularly the pauper graves, aren't very well recorded, and so what the cemetery has done is there's a lovely, beautiful lawned area under some trees with a big like a big round rock that's got a memorial plaque on it that says, you know, there are thousands of people buried in this area. But we don't have any specific information about where the exact graves are, so I took a little bunch of flowers and I laid it on the memorial.
I had a little cry under the trees. And I had never felt at any closer to her than I did at that moment, which was really cool. Yeah, for eight years I worked in the building that she had her daughter in, but actually being able to go there and know that she was meters away, even though I didn't have a specific gravesite to go to, it was
a really lovely moment of closure. And I wasn't expecting it to be as emotional as it was, and it was just a really lovely way to say goodbye to Yeah, it was a great moment.
We'll be back soon to hear more about Mabel. To stay with us, and did you ever find out what happened to Mabel's daughter?
I did, but not going to anybody here is interested. Will have to read the book.
Okay, And just one more question, Karin, you mentioned in the notes that you sent me about this story a link between Mabel and Russian spies.
What's that all about? Yeah, this is one of the wonderful things about researching this this world of vaudeville and circus, particularly the small jobbing circuss who haven't been very well recorded, is that there's this huge kind of cast of thousands of people who kind of flit in and out of these various troops. And one of them, well, actually there's a trio that we're fascinating. So snake charmers, Russian spies and Daisy Baits, yes, actually Daisy Baits all kind of
are in the orbit of Mabel's brother's circus. The Russian Spy. He's a sharpshooter who claims to be a Russian dissident. He isn't, but actually his wife is. And he's a master armsman, so he does things like, you know, shoots apples off people's heads at you know, five hundred yards of this kind of stuff. But yes, he claims to be a former white Russian spy but he's not. But his wife really was a white Russian dissident who comes
to Australia. So yeah, there's these amazing, colorful characters that you just couldn't make up. And while I was writing it, I was texting my colleague Miikki and saying, you wouldn't believe who's turned up now you know, there's this Russian spy you wouldn't play, snake chumps who get bitten andla. So yes, it's a cast of thousands who I never knew existed, and I think everyone will really enjoy finding out about this very colorful, very rich, very exciting world
that is entirely forgotten by mainstream life these days. Yeah, it was just a wonderful playground to explore. And I spent five years essentially writing Mabel, and I'm kind of sad to see it go, but I will never stop looking. You know, there's still that five year gap between ninety nine in nineteen oh four that I don't know what she was up to. So I will never stop looking for Mabel. She's going to be with me forever, much to the chagrin of my children, like my mum, what
are you doing? Maybe she's an obsession. You know, she got under my skin and she didn't want to leave. So this book was really a way of kind of honoring that life where she was seen as worthless for most of her life. You know, she was at the very edge of society. But I think she deserves a whole lot more, and I think many women like her deserved a whole lot more, and that was one of the reasons why I wrote the book.
Fantastic Now, just to remind listeners the book, it's called Three Ring Circus, The Dramatic, mysterious and tragical Life of Mabel Walley, a destitute asylum Girl. Where's the best place for people to buy the book?
So, it's published by Australian Scholarly in North Melbourne. It's readily available through Dimicks or you can order it off the Australian Scholarly website. I would actually also like to to my horn that the book was awarded the Historical Society of South Australia Keen Medal for Historical Nonfiction in twenty twenty two. It was the joint winner of the twenty twenty two Medal round. So I actually got a lovely, lovely,
nice piece of bronze for that. Well done, that's really nice, gat versions, that was wonderful.
And we'll actually put the link to buy a copy of the book in the show notes to this episode if any listeners would like to buy a copy. Well, thank you so much for sharing the story with us today. Krein, don't really enjoyed it, no worries.
You're very welcome.
Thanks for listening. This has been In Black and White, a podcast about some of Australia's forgotten characters, written and hosted by me Jen Kelly, edited by Nina Young and produced by John Tiburton. You can find all the stories and photos associated with our episodes at Heraldsun dot com dot au slash ib aw. If you've enjoyed this podcast, we'd love you to leave a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Even better, leave a review. Any comments or questions please email me at In Black and White at
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