Hi, and welcome to this special bonus episode of In & Around Podcasting, the industry show that shares powerful podcasting perspectives. As thousands of podcasters descend on The Podcast Show in London, including my erstwhile co-host Mark Asquith, we thought we'd take the opportunity to look back at the first few months of In & Around Podcasting. We've covered a wealth of important topics and been delighted to bring some fantastic insights around these topics from both
industry insiders and indie podcasters. So sit back and enjoy this recap. In episode one, we talked about the narrative around the death of podcasting, that some naysayers are promoting, down to reduced budgets, industry layoffs, the dropping of exclusive podcasts and more. Verity Sangan shared how she believes a lot of this can come down to a lack of strategy in podcasting.
This is where I think a lot of this argument comes with podcasting is dead is because I think that there are a lot of people who have tried with podcasting. Maybe they have been part of the, you know, statistical 80% or whatever it is that you don't get past episode three or what have you. And maybe podcasting didn't work for them. But then one of the things that I'm really interested in and I'm such a strategy girl everything for me is strategy. And people get fed
up of hearing me say the word strategy sometimes, I think. But, you know, it's this idea of if you start anything, I think then you aren't going to see the success. And I'm saying success in inverted commas, because I do believe that success is going to look different for different people. And it's that idea that unless you do have a plan and you do have a strategy, then you're not going to see that success. And I think you're then going to continue to feed into the narrative of, well, yeah,
podcasting is dead because it didn't work for me. It didn't work for Joe Bloggs or whoever. I didn't immediately become the next the next I was going to say Seth Rogan then - no Joe Rogan, very different person. I didn't become the next, you know, Joe Rogan within a week. So what was the point? And I think that just feeds that narrative.
Episode two saw us taking a look at the Podcasting 2.0 initiative and how that's making the listener experience better. Here, Joe Casabona shared some great points on how the industry can position the benefits of the features, which are what both podcasters and listeners are really interested in.
I think it really is kind of up to the industry folks to... it's almost like saying like as a carmaker, I don't want to oh well, only less than like less than 1% of people die from car crashes. So I'm not going to put airbags in my car. Like, well, that's a crazy thing to say. But I think like again, from the kind of feature standpoint, there are, as I watch the Podcasting 2.0 space and some of the features that get implemented and the things that I think are going to be most
helpful, that's that's kind of where I land. So like transcripts I've been bullish on, like transcripts are necessary for a podcast. Like I my show, my current show, my flagship show also launched in twenty sixteen. In twenty seventeen, it had transcripts because, you know, I think that it's an accessibility play, it's a search play. It's a lot of things. And so it's really cool to see Apple and other people kind of implement this and give native
support to it. Things like chapter markers. I think that's that's technically Podcasting 2.0. Maybe that's like support it if you want. It's like kind of hard to add. Maybe other apps do it better, but I think about what's going to make the biggest impact based on my clients or students goals, right? We want to grow the show. Transcripts are necessary for that, chapter markers if you're going to upload it to YouTube now. Right. And there is like the medium tag
now. So that's pretty cool to see. Maybe we maybe we do that It's I guess it's all very goals based is the most succinct way for me to put it.
In episode three, we had a wonderful discussion around AI and podcasting, including the ethical dilemmas around its use and what it means for creators. Deirdre Tshien used an example of how a creator leads by human expertise, and AI takes that to enhance the content for results.
A lot of it is introducing them to the strategies that we really lean into that actually gets them results. So, you know, an example is Katie Brinkley, who is a social media guru. She talks about a four post social media strategy and why I love the four post social media
strategy is because, again, it's not content for content sake. I mean, yes, you're still creating content, but you're creating content in order to drive a particular like action, whether that's engagement on social media or whether that's opt in to a lead magnet or into a workshop. Right, Because we're talking to entrepreneurs here. And so like so for me, if I could share these strategies that are very human led and hey,
AI can yes. Help you, you know, shortcut and make it way more efficient to give you the base of, for example, these four posts. But one of them, for example, one of the posts is actually what she calls a community post, which is all about your story. Like, AI cannot actually generate that. Like it just cannot because it can't, you know, until we have chips in our brains or whatever, like it actually doesn't know your memories, it doesn't know your story. So you actually have
to be part of that process to like help create that post. I mean, yes, AI can give you inspiration, which Capsho does do, which is like, Hey, maybe based on the topic of your podcast, this is a story that you can bring to life or, you know, it'll give you some ideas, but at the end of the day it's still you.
Episode four saw Mark and I review Podcast Movement Evolutions along with where live podcast events have opportunities. This includes defining industry events from consumer events.
But yeah, that would be, that would be a just my bit of feedback would be if it's going to be I think if it's going to be industry just LA just feels industry you know L.A. or New York personally feel that industry. You've got a hot spot over there. You've got, you know, that that whole concept of the podcast industry. And I think that's why London does so well and why the podcast should do so well, because here in Europe,
London is the hub. You know, you've got Global, you've got the BBC, you've got The Guardian, the Daily Mail, the Telegraph, you've got all of these people that are really taking up the top spots, even some of the networks like Sky, like, you know, people like Channel Four and ITV, some of the rewatch stuff, they're all in one place and it feels like LA is like the spiritual counterpart of that in the US. So I just feel that it could be don't know if it would benefit from it, but I just feel
it sort of sounds logical and feels logical. And I know there are logistical and financial incentives and challenges to overcome and whatever else, but it feels like Podcast Movement industry stuff sort of needs a home, like it needs to be just bound to somewhere where you might be able to add a bit of demarcation between, okay, here's the creative stuff and here's the industry stuff.
In episode five, we took a look at why the smaller podcast apps have a future. As Apple and Spotify continue to mop up the majority of listeners between them, Sam Sethi stated the case for smaller apps to make interactivity between podcast and listener key and how that can help set these apps apart.
Discovery of content is a critical thing. One of the things that Apple and Spotify don't have is any interactivity back to the creator, and that's a big thing. So the ability to leave comments, living with a cool boost. So, you know, we've got this new language that's got to be adapted to people, but a boost is simply just a comment with a payment. And then again,
that means that you can leave two things. You can have comments back to the creator who can then in the next episode go, Hey, I was just doing the show and Mary said, blah, blah, blah about the show. And you've then got that audience participation, that community, and then there's fan to fan. So that two people might be talking about your show and can leave a comment so they
don't have to include the creator. So I think what we're looking at is new ways of enabling listeners to interact and discover content and new ways for you as a creator, to reach your audience, create your fan base, create your community. Those are things that Apple and Spotify aren't very good at doing is creating that community element and that interactivity element.
In episode six we talked about a topic that probably every podcast has faced before, and that's podfade, with new data showing that a large percentage of podcasters don't make it past episode five. Here, Ashley Hamer explains how finding your specific niche and planning episodes several months ahead of publication can help prevent podcasters from giving up so early.
But for for the ability to actually just keep making my show week after week, it's it's really the that thing I was saying about internal motivation. Like I, I didn't see a podcast, a science podcast that specifically talked about, you know, the taboo topics in in our world. And I wanted to make that and I wanted that to exist. And so that kind of driving force is, is really powerful. It helps me keep going. And then and then in addition to that, I think every podcaster needs to have a really
long list of, of episode topics. You know, it's really easy to come up with five. It's not that easy to come up with thirty. And that's kind of your deciding factor of like whether this idea for a podcast actually has legs and, and also I think everybody needs a plan for what to do if you do need a break because a lot of people I mean, you know, I think we all need breaks here and there. My my show is seasonal, so I can I have a certain number of episodes that I want to cover and then I will
take a break maybe for a couple of months. One time it was for an entire maternity leave. So, you know, but but I think that's that's important to you don't have to just keep going. You can take breaks and I think that can make your podcast last a little longer rather than just feeling like, Oh, this is too much. I can't just keep doing this week after week, I'm just going to stop.
Just prior to episode seven being recorded, Spotify announced it had left the IAB, the industry standard for podcast measurement. So Mark and I jumped on it immediately and brought James Cridland on to talk about what this meant for the industry.
Yeah, and I think, you know, Rob Walsh on The Feed keeps on saying, and I think this is great advice, keeps on saying the numbers are actually unimportant. What's actually important here is the trend. Are you increasing every single week? If you're not increasing every single week, then that's something to worry about. But as long as you're increasing, as long as that trend is showing you increasing and as long as you can see when you do something new that the figures
go up faster, then that's all that really matters. So I wouldn't for most of the podcasters listening to this. I wouldn't be particularly worried about the fact that Spotify no longer has the certification. I mean, if you're hosting on Spotify for Podcasters, then I would I would always be saying you might want to be hosting somewhere else. But in terms of in terms of worrying about whether those numbers that you get are absolutely, you know, accurate, I wouldn't I wouldn't
worry too much. It does change when you are talking to advertisers who clearly want more accurate numbers.
In episode eight, we took a look at what monetization looks like for podcasting and does the CPM model work or does podcasting need a more sustainable approach to monetization for small to medium size podcasts? Tom Webster had this to say.
Podcasting has has historically been sold as a digital medium, and if you look at it as a digital medium, its metrics are found wanting, right? You don't get all of it. You know, what's my click through rate? We don't have a click through rate. You know, you could sort of get you can get IP address and user ID and and you know device basically and you can choose to do some work around that. It's not great It's not perfect. What if instead you look at it as well it's a
different thing, right? It's a you look at it as an analog medium with incredible metrics. Then you have a slightly different sale here because what it provides is more engagement than display. It provides more engagement even than than video with its short form, you know, very skippable ads. So you're basically saying we provide the incredible engagement of analog
medium with incredible metrics. You know, having said all of that, I'll just say again that there are a lot of elements of AdTech that have just not caught up to where we need to be and we need some more innovation there.
And finally, rounding this collection up, episode nine saw Mark and I are talking about YouTube and its role in podcasting. Despite support of RSS feed ingestion added last year and more podcast listener features added to YouTube Music, many audio first podcasters are still asking whether YouTube actually cares about podcasting. Something I speak about here.
Yeah. And I think that's all it's an add on, right? It's they want you to create within the creator studio and upload your videos there, use all their tools and then check a box, this is a podcast, great, we'll send that as a playlist. And that will be audio playback on YouTube Music. But it seems a complete opposite from an Apple where they physically want you
to create audio. I mean, Apple's supported video since two thousand and five, back in the old iTunes days, but they just don't really push it as an option because they know YouTube's got video locked down, but Apple gives you tools to create audio only content and feed that out, etc. It just feels like YouTube's doing the complete opposite and there's no real benefit. I look at my analytics, I get maybe one or two plays, views, listens, whatever you want to call it, on
my RSS ingested feed episode. And then I look at when I do the video version of that, I'm not a big. I've not got a lot of subscribers still, under 50. I got on my YouTube channel, but I get a decent amount of views because that's how the algorithm's set up. So it's not... the RSS is there, but it's like, is it really there if no one's really using it, you know, or thinking of YouTube as audio, really, I don't know. Thanks so
much for listening to this bonus episode. I think you'll agree that there's been some great discussion so far and we're only just getting started. Thanks so much to our amazing guests so far and to you, the listener, for being here with us each week and for making the show one that's quickly found its way into the listening habits of both podcasters and anyone
interested in the podcasting space. If there's someone you know that would enjoy the show, to be sure to recommend us by sending them to In and Around Podcasting dot com, where they can catch up on any episodes they've missed. And if you enjoy the show and wanted to show that by leaving us a review, you can do that over at In and Around Podcasting dot com slash review. Thank you for all your support so far. And we'll be back next
week, same place, same time with more industry insights. Until then, keep doing what you do in this wonderful industry that means so much to us all. Bye bye for now.