And nine Ignition Ship five four three two one zero All engine running.
It's Wednesday. You know what that means. It's time for Ignition With the aw Fan Hubb podcast team. This is Kelson and guys. We had an interesting week in aw really and beginning with Kyle Fletcher winning the TNT Championship against Dustin Rhodes, who announced these having two knee replacements going under the knife on August twenty first, and he was still able to put on a five star match. I think that's what Meltzer gave this match was five stars.
First of all, what did you think of this match? Did you think it will deserve five stars?
Definitely? Definitely I would.
Agree with that.
I mean, at one point they pore thumbtacks down I think it was Kyle Fletcher's pants or tight whatever, and did shatter dreams.
Yes, I think sky Blue had to go in there and fish them out, probably, but uh.
Kyle Fletcher actually posted a picture of a thumbtack, a bent thumbtack on his like on his index finger and uh and with the caption guess where this one came from? Oh boy? Anyway, Yeah, I maybe I don't mean any disrespect by this. I maybe would not have given this one a five star match, but it would have been easily a four and a half.
Yeah it was good. Yeah, I think five star match should be more of a higher rating.
Than what Melter does some time. But it was a good match.
Oh yeah, it really was. Barry, what do you think of a match?
I enjoyed it a lot. Dave's ratings like people get too hung up on the five star. His whole thing is really the barrier of a great match is the four star, and like, once you're above four star, it's all just subjectivity, Like he'll always go if you think it's above a four star, then we agree, And I think he's right. I enjoyed the match a lot. It's not always my cup of tea, so I kind of don't think they're five stars just because it's not my jam.
It is for somebody else. I'm not gonna disagree with it, but I enjoyed it. I thought I told a great story. Dustin is one of the performers on the roster that always has the believable underdog match. Like you put in a lot of performers and you know the underdogs is like, oh, they're going to a couple spots, but there's some way that Dustin just brings in a level of emotion into
his matches. It's hard to articulate like what that feels like, but I think everybody understands, like you root for him in a way you don't for the other underdogs, which is what makes some of these matches even more special.
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Yeah, exactly. Well, let's look at Kyle Fletcher. I mean, now he is the TNT champion. Do you see I kind of when I look at Kyle Fletcher as the TNT champion, I look at him as Okay, we've got somebody that can give us championship matches with this belt. Do you guys feel the same way?
Oh yeah, he's a He's one of the better performers out there right now.
Young talented can go on the MIC.
I think he's a aw world champion.
Sure, sure, I do too.
I would I think he should be world champion. I would say probably by the end of next year, if not early twenty twenty seven. That's my prediction. But I've been a long time Kyle Fletcher fan. I think he really came into his element during the I'm or not m Jeff during the Will Osprey feud, although I did like what he did during the Osprey m Jaff feud, so I guess to a certain extent m Jaff helped him there. But you know what I'm trying to say, hopefully, Yeah.
Well, let me ask you guys this, with Kyle Fletcher's the T and T champion, I mean he's he he's more of an upper big card guy to me right now, you know, meaning that I don't mean that in any way disrespectfully. You know, some of you may think he's an upper card back guy, and I will not argue that. I'm just saying for me, he's an upper mid card guy. But do you think that there's a possibility with him being the T and T champion that we may see some of these upper card guys challenging him for the
T and T championship? Meaning, do you think we may see somebody like swear Strickland, Will Osprey, Uh, you know, Kazuko Kata even if he loses the belt, you know eventually, you know, do you see that happening with Kyle Fletcher?
Well, right now we're getting swear Strickland versus Kaa. So those two are kind of out of the mix, and.
Also talking about right now, I'm talking about it in in the upcoming months, like like toward like by the end of the year, like look at full gear or something like that. You know.
The problem. The problem there is Okada is a heel. Osprey is a heel. So I can't see them doing that. He no, I'm I said, Okada.
Okay, don't take him literally as the face heel. Just I think Kelson, you're getting out of a class of performers that we may have not considered going for that belt in the past, and I don't think so. And the reason why is because of how they've established the what is it the heavyweight title, the second one that has is that what it's called? Yeah, So they've long looked at that as like the one B title, and I think.
That international championship a lot.
I think they championship. Go ahead, Barry.
I think with that being the one A and the one BET title, that's where you circle that tier of folks that you're kind of getting at. And and sort of the ambiguity about where the continental title slotted in because you had the international title too, made that whole section of performers kind of cloudy. The TNT title for a very long period of time was the showcase of the mid cart. That that is the launching pad for
guys to go to that next step. There was a period when when Copeland had it and like Cody at it back in the day, and there's been a couple of major guys that have toyed around with it. But that belt, that belt is the launch pad for Kyle Fletcher's to get to that upper card. I remember when I first saw Kyle and started to take note to him when he was the Ring of Honor TV champ. I think after this, after Mark Davis was injured and we saw him performing, I'm like, this kid's got it.
He's got that it factor. He's just got a couple of things he's got to pull together. And I'm glad they got gold around him now, aw Gold. Kyle Fletcher is one of those young guys that you can build this promotion around with. Swerve hangman, mjf Fletcher. You got Brody in there. You got a bunch of young guys that are super athletic and they've got years on their
career and like he's ready. Kelson, I think clammed you're you're not off off that in a year and a half to two years he will be in that main event scene, maybe for that top title.
I don't know if you guys will agree with me or not on this, but when I look at Kyle Fletcher, as young as he is, I think he is one of the best in a w in in ring storytelling.
Yeah, where's his weaknesses? Even on the mic? Like where where is he? Where is he weak? As a performer? He's good looking, he's got a great move set, knows how to work high flying and a hard hitting style and adjustice to who he's in there with. He's good on the mic, Like where is the weak spot? Like, if you're building a prototypical star performer in his early twenties, what do you add to Kyle Fletcher he doesn't have.
Do you look at Kyle Fletcher as the same kind of star quality as maybe an MJF as far as like the young guy?
Yeah, yeah, but can he reminds me? Yeah, he reminds me of lot of the Run when when and I know people compare him to this because of the shape dead but like look at Orton's early career, that's the kind of vibes I get from Fletcher right now.
Right now, I'd say he's better than MJF. I've I posted a while back. I'm kind of growing tired of MJF and the same prompts he always uses and stuff he needs to edge himself back up.
Whereas Fletcher is good.
He doesn't have to use a low hanging fruit and stuff time after time, and he's going to be somebody.
I think he'll surpass MJF.
In my opinion, I cannot wait to be in the building for MJF versus Mark Brisco in ways essentially a number one contenders match.
Yeah, I mean, look, speaking of MJF. On Friday, MGF beata Verno in CMLL at Grena, Mexico to become the CMLL Light Heavyweight Champion, which is basically their heavyweight champion. They don't I don't think they have a heavyweight division. I may be wrong there, but that's the big belt. So now we have MGF is the CMLL champion, I'll
just call him that, the CML champion. We've got him having some difficulties with the Hurt Syndicate, particularly Bobby Lashley, and then you have, of course, you have his ongoing feud with Mystico. He is going to be defending the I can't remember who he's defending it against, but he is defending the CMLL Championship. And I think next week welcome Jess. So you know, Rawlins had already broke get hit a little bit on this. But how do we
feel about MGF here? I mean, he's got the CNLO Championship, he's got a built in feud with Misticico, he's got a feud going on, maybe with the Hurt Syndicate. What do you guys feel feel about this?
I think the whole Hurt Syndicate thing is a complete and total ruse and he's gonna use it to bait Hangman into a match, probably all out, and.
It's gonna go from there.
I don't believe that MJF is actually out of the Hurt Syndicate.
I don't, okay.
I don't know why he was putting in the first place. It's kind of an odd, oddball situation. He didn't match the style just because he's friends with MVP. He didn't really match. I think they're going to cough him the title and that'll be his downfall. And MJF had crawls the way back up.
We can show either way.
What was that just in my car said, to show your way? Yeah, we can't understand you.
Yeah, I can go anyway. I get that.
Oh you understood her. I couldn't understand what she was saying.
Yeah, I couldn't really understand. But it is interesting to me that there they seem to be going in the direction of an m JF Hangman feud right away. I thought they would save that for later in Hangman's title reign, since the the presumptive thought anyway, is that it's going to be MJF who takes the belt off of Hangman.
So.
Okay, go ahead.
The fact that they're this, like they're kind of leaning into this story, I guess right away is very surprising to me. Granted I'm enjoying it, so I'm not I don't have an issue with it, but it's not the direction I was expecting them to go, If that makes sense.
Yeah, very well. I want to ask you a question, and of course you can come up with you know, if you have an opinion on what we've already talked about, obviously, feel free to you know, chime in with that too, but specifically, the question is, yeah, it does seem would you agree it's a multipart question. Would you agree that MGF is being groomed I guess for a future feud with Hangman, Adam Paige and I kind of right now,
I think it's too soon for something like that. I think I think Page needs to have a feud with a less prominent I don't know how to put it, just to establish himself as world champion more. But do you see MJF actually taking the belt off of Hangman out of Page. Let's say, if this match happens later in the year, like at Full Gear or World's End.
You know, it's too hard for me to get a feel on what direction they're going, if it's going to be MGF or somebody else. Looking at my preference for booking, I don't think MGF is the right guy to take it. But there's a completely valid way you could create a story where that does make sense. Just to me right now, I don't see it. What I what I look at for this storyline is if we look at before Hanger bought the belt, they were lining up challengers for that title.
Everybody wanted that title. So we've talked about it. Kenny talked about it, MJF talked about it. Hangman, everybody was gunning for that belt. So having MJFF another top star lined up right out of the gate. After Hangman got two wins over Mox that was his first defense was the former champ, so he's already got a significant win under his belt. Having another former champion there you want to run a program with in three or four months, give him another win. I Thinkkelson, it was you that
said you want to establish a better run. These guys don't need to trade the title in their first match. MJF is clearly angling for a valid number ones contender spot that Hanger told him he's going to have to earn or he's going to have to cash in. So I see this playing out, and I think Clam's you're the one that mentioned it. I don't know if he's out of the hurt syndicator. This is some agreement they've got.
We'll see where that story goes. I also want to be upset up they killed it because fans weren't too into it. Responding to fan interactions cool as well, but I could see this going where Max gets his first title shot. Kelson loses, so there's another top former champion. Hangman has a big win over which really establishes a title reign, and then he can cash in a few months later after we've already forgotten about it, or opportunistically at a pay per viewer or whoever it makes sense
going forward. He still doesn't need to win it then, but the max character winning a title bout in a schemy way down the line, if that's how they're going to give it to him and take it off, Hangman feels a lot more in character than him winning a legitimate number one you know, earning a number one contender spot at a pay per viewer or whatever and having
a straight up match. He needs to win in some scheming way, and if he stays in the hurt syndicit or it's a ruse to Clam's point, that's the scheming way he does it down the line. So we'll see how it belds out. There's a lot of ways they can go. Like Jess said, I'm open minded right now. I don't really see any troubled waters. But you can make some mistakes pretty quick and ruin a lot of your options too.
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I mean, look, I don't whatever happens, I don't think anything that's going to happen between We'll put it this way, anything significant is going to happen between MJF and Hangman Adam Page until the CMOLL World Championship thing is taken care of, meaning agree the eventual match with the to go.
I mean it funds like the stuff to keep him busy right now until they it's time to do the actual storylines. Like, he's got a lot going on. To your point, Kelson, he's got too much going on to focus on the title shot at the moment.
I wouldn't be surprised if they do the MJFF Mystico match at Forbidden Door.
I mean it's possible.
I want to see.
Here's the only thing about that rollins is CMLL is the oldest wrestling company in the world, and after Forbidden Door they're celebrating their ninety second anniversary with an ninety second anniversary show. I kind of think that MGFF and Mystico is custom built for main eventing that show.
Yeah, I can see that too.
I think king Man needs to find a good uh New japan wrestler to go against for uh Forbidden Door.
I don't know who.
I don't know the roster real well, but uh, maybe the guy who's uh the last match, but I don't I don't know his.
Yeah, Hiroshi tana Hashi. He's actually the president of New Japan now and he's on his retirement tour. He has no knees.
Uh.
He's wrestled in Forbidden Door before, and you know, frankly, he's struggling. I mean, he's a great wrestler, but he just can't do a match. And putting tana Hashi when he was in his prime against Hangman Adam Paige. Hell, yes, having Tanahashi against Hangman Adam Page right now is just not realistic.
Yeah, yeah, I can see that. I just he needs to keep on building up his I will sat back from what I said a while ago that I was that I didn't want one more match between Moxley and Adam Page because that meant was what Moxley should have been doing against the whole time, and that Moxley and Hangman match was actually very good.
Yeah, I guess I had I really honestly had no interest in that match because you knew that there was no way that Moxley was going to win that match, and if he did, it would have been like the worst thing AW has ever done in their history. So we knew that they were that Hangman wasn't going to lose the belt there, and it was one of those things.
You know. One of the problems that I have with a W and their booking right now is, and this is being overly critical, but I really do feel this way in that they booked matches not for the matt but for what's gonna happen at the end of the matches.
I have no problem with that though, Dude Kelson, like, I like that all in we got the return of Darby Allen and we got the return of Brian Daniels said, although it's interesting that Danielson hasn't been featured on any of the Dynamites since then.
But yeah, he's not back. That's why. That's that's why they don't follow up on those things. Those are like one offs. He's not. He doesn't want anybody to think that he's coming back to do stuff because he's not.
Yeah, exactly, but yell like, I enjoy that they're going straight into this John Moxleygue Darby Allen feud, which by the way. I hope they hold it off until all out. What I would do at Forbidden Doors like a six man tag team match of some sort like Death Riders against Darby and a couple New Japan guys.
Uh yeah, you have Bullet Club war Dogs sitting right there. I mean that's really all that New Japan has, you know, So there's not that many I mean gay kids injured. I don't think he's going to be back in time, you know. It's the big names are Bullet Club war Dogs to me.
Yeah, so I look at some the matchups here, And to kind of follow up on your point about the the Mox Hangman rematch, that match was a couple things. One it was it was to just confirm to fans, listen, we're not we know what we're doing at this point, and we're just going to reiterate this by having Hangar go over Mox again. But two, it was just it was a way to do something cool on TV. They don't do title matches often on free TV. It's pretty rare.
They certainly don't do them that fast and with that short of a build up. But it made sense. Of course Max will want it back, and I think to your point Kelson. It was to just remind folks, listen, we got a vision where we're going and it's away from death writers being in that, and they reiterated it by having Darby to to the point that, I mean, we see that's where the next few it's going to be, and it makes sense they threw him down the stairs.
I think Hangar needs needs a new Japan guy. There's a bunch of folks you know, now that The g One is kind of wrapping up, that'll show up. But you don't need to promote Forbidden Doors. It's a non canon pay per view. They'll have a couple of cannon matches, but it's it's just fun matches with some new Japan folks. So you can you can put them up against the Yoda Suji or u u Are you know, you can plug him in against a show to Umino or should
go to Kagi Zach Saber Junior's voting out there. I'm not sure who's going to be in the finals for the g One, but there's plenty of top names. You know. Takeshta's over there, he's one of the he's doing real well. I know he's not a new Japan full timer, but he's not even around. He was the other young guy. Couldn't think of earlier there the six that they're building around. By the way, we got plenty of guys from there they can plug in the The for Ben Door shows
very rarely of long builds. The important matches are the actual AW matches that are cannon. We're getting those, and you know, it'll be what it is to your point, Kelson, and we'll get past for beIN Door season and get focused on the building for all Out and go from there.
I'm excited to be at Dynamite on the road to Forbidding Door because usually when Cleveland gets an episode of AW Dynamite, it's either been on the road to all Out or it's been on the road to full gear. So it's a little bit something different. I'm hoping that maybe, just maybe, even though I'm not too familiar with new Japan talent, I'm hoping that maybe, just maybe we get some new Japan people and we can really start to kick up some of this new Japan stuff.
Case we are going to get some CML al and.
Stardom people in the show, not at Dynamite, but at Forbidden Door because they announced that there's gonna be a fatal four way for the TBS Championship Mercedes Monette against an a W person which will be determined tomorrow against or on tonight, however, against the CMLL person against a stardom person.
Let's well, let's talk about that match. Dynamite featuring Ple Dominada, Sky Blue, Alex Windsor, and Billy Starks. They are vying tonight for the right to face Mercedes Monet at Forbidden Door in the in the fatal four way. The rawlins sus mentioned, who do you guys have in this match? I have my old dots, but I want to hear what you guys think.
I think it's Windsor.
We've seen a lot of other people and and she's been involved, She's been on TV more so I think that's why they're leaning towards putting her.
Over Okay, anybody else with a pick on this match.
I can actually see it being Billy Starks because they're leading very heavily in tech Athena going after the a W Women's World Championship, So why not have Billy Starks go after the TBS Championship.
Well, just I did in chat with winsor Uh, that's who I'm going with, is winsor what about? What about anybody else?
So this is the the match on Wednesday is the qualifier for one of the four ways.
Right, it's for qualify for the four way, Yes, exactly, Yeah, I.
Think I think I think Windsa is she needs to say that after big moves like that needs to be a thing like Adam colebaby. I don't think they're maximizing on that enough or capitalizing on that enough. But looking at that added, I think it's either Windsor or Amanada. I can see either of those With Sky being in
the match. You've got that built in techla interference and I'm Manada to take them out and then that could give it Windsor the win over Billy or There's a lot of ways they can book the finish for that. But yeah, if we're if we're bringing in Windsor and want to establish her as a as an upper mid car women, uh female on the roster, you got to keep her strong and this is a match to put her over in to do.
I kind of think that Billy starts us in this match to eat the pin. That's that's the way.
Yeah, I agree, I bet I get that. But I'm just like, if they want to establish Athena and Billy Starts as like a dominant I don't want to say fashion but dominant and dynamic duo, why not have Athena go after the a W Women's World Championship and have Billy Starts go after the TBS Championship.
It makes sense to.
Me they are She's just literally going after They are literally going after the major, the women the world title and the TVs Championship. Billy's going after the TVs title, trying to qualify for it. Athena is fighting for the world title, so they're trying.
That and that's why I'm saying I think Billy should win this match.
She's yeah, she's not there yet. She's she is a minion like her Her role on the roster right now as they're building her is that Tody and on the long enough storyline, when they're ready to push her, she will follow the same template we've seen with these pairings. She will get the win over her quote unquote master and then we'll see if she's successful on a singles run. Like that's her role. Whoever said she's there to eat
the pin like, that's her position on the card. That's what her job is right now, and she's going to do it great. She's going to look great. She's going to be a blast out there, and we're going to continue to become a fan of hers because when they pull the trigger and she turns on Athena when the time is right, it's going to be great, and she's going to be a big time babyface and we're going to love her, and she's going to run for titles and win some and it's going to be a blast.
It's just that right now, It's just not right now, that's all.
Now. If you remember correctly that Mercedes Monette won the CMLL titled by beating Zuxies, who was injured, and that's basically why the title changed hands there.
Oh, I well know that.
Okay, Yeah, So when I don't know if if Zeuxis is back and ready to challenge in this fatal four way forbidden door. Here's the thing. Neither CMLL or Stardom announced that they're doing a four way qualifier. They may just appoint somebody to go in there. Now. I mean, for CMLL, you have Zeuxis, who makes the most sense because she was the former CMLL champion, so putting her in a match with Mercedes Monet makes most sense. But again I don't know if she's available or not. Then
you have red isis Persephone La Catalina. Those are really the four that I can think of from CML. Now with Stardom, Remember you have New Japan doing their G one Climax, but you also have Stardom doing their Five Star GP. Now, even though the Five Star GP, the finals of the Five Star GP are on August twenty third, which is the day before Forbidden Door, some of the wrestlers who are in the Fire Star GP are already booked for a event on the twenty fourth that's being
held by Sentai Girls. So so you saw immediately you take out of out of those available, Hazuki that's a boy, Starlight Kid and Sire are automatically out of it. Again, I don't know whether CMLL are doing a four way qualifier like AW is doing. They may just appoint somebody to be they're the number our number one contender for this title. Sure he is on her way back, she's
she's rehabbing, she's working out that elbow. I don't know if you guys saw the picture of the crap that got taken out of her elbow, but it wasn't nice.
It was really gross. Also I'm home.
Yeah exactly. Uh so maybe they have sureI come in. But you know there's another one that makes sense. It's a Zumi. Remember it was a Zuomie who took the well did pin Mercedes, but took that New Japan Strong Champion Championship off of her. So with Zoupsies and azm you do have two women there that makes sense. But are they available? That's the problem.
Do you think it's possible for Alex Winza to take the south Side Championship off of Mercedes?
Well, the Southside Championship is combined with the it's like a unified championship with the Red Pro Women's Championship that Mercedes has. So if if they fight for in other words, if they haven't match for the Repro Championship at windsor Wins, it would be winsor with the Repro Women's Championship and the Queen of Southside Championship, it's two belts in one. So so yeah, that's that. Uh you know, look, I mean Mercedes Monet is going to be out on the
h on the show tonight. She's appearing live at Dynamite, and there's a very good chance that somebody's gonna interrupt, whether it's from AW or maybe from CMLL, maybe from stardom. You never know. There could be a video package up on the big screen, you know, saying hey, I'm coming after you. I'm at Forbidden Door. So that's something of interest to look at tomorrow night or Dynamite tonight. I don't know. I have my days and yeah, yeah, so
you know, but you know, look at Forbidden Door. You know, this is kind of an interesting thing because I may be wrong, but people tell me that I'm not, and that this is the first mention of CMLL and started appearing at Forbidden Door. It's only been advertised as New Japan and a wh So this match means that there is going to be CMLL AND starting at Forbidden Door. We know Hiroshi Tanahashi is going to have a match
at Forbidden Door. But the question is is that Okay, so we've got these two matches, is there enough Forbidden Door? At Forbidden Door? And do you see I mean somebody I think it was Rollins brought up I think uh, Mistico and MGF at Forbidden Door. Maybe, but again, like I said, you have the anniversary for CMLL coming out. Maybe maybe they have a matchup Forbidden Door and have a rematch it Garita Mexico.
You know.
So, but it kind of doesn't seem like there's a whole heck of a lot going on with Forbidden Door being Forbidden Door right now. Are you guys noticing this?
Yeah, I've mentioned definitely, and it seems I think it's because we've got the g One climax going on when a live the New Japan people are tied up with that, so it's just bad timing in terms of wing Forbidden Door is happening. Hopefully as the g One winds down, some of them can come over and we can get like six man tag team matches and other crazy things.
You know.
Yeah, I mean, look, Rollins, I mean, it's obvious. Maybe they're not putting people into Forbidden Door meaning New Japan, because they don't want to give away the finals of the g One Climax. That makes sense. You know, they're waiting maybe another week or so until somebody has been mathematically eliminated.
This is go ahead, Okay, Yeah, I could see that.
Plus, it's a lot to travel with people back and forth, and you don't want to wear anybody out as well. I think it's an ill time pay per view. They should have waited and maybe switched all out with.
That.
But it's Tony's choice. But we'll see what happens.
Yeah, really bad timing this year. I know it's just in general the summer is g one season, so it's kind of hard to pick it. But I feel like Kelson, we've had this, not literally you and I, but fans. We've had this conversation about Forbidden Door a couple of times already that it just seems like the build for it only occurs in like the last two weeks, two and a half weeks outside of the AW versus is
AW matches. I could be wrong here, but I think I remember last year the only matches we knew like three weeks out were the AW versus AW matches. I think there was a title match on the show and everything else didn't get filled in until two or three weeks before.
Yeah, but what happened though? What happened though? I'm sorry, Barry, go ahead, No, it's okay.
I don't like that style, but like whatever, Like I said, it's a non cannon show. They're continuing the major storylines that are important in aw TV, and that's all I really care about, goh.
Keilson, That's exactly what I carry but care about as well. The previous builds toward Forbidden Door. You're right, and that maybe they didn't create matches. You know, they did create some matches, but not all the matches until two weeks three weeks before. But what they did is they trotted out all these Japanese you know, new japan wrestlers to come out and do trios matches that were absolutely meaningless. You know, they had the tag matches, multimn matches were meaningless.
And as I've said before, the first three Forbidden Doors frustrated me horribly because I thought that I called them the great momentum killers. I don't feel this way this year.
I think that they've handled This is the best build to Forbidden Door that a W has ever had, simply because they're not throwing AW isn't throwing their storylines under the bus two, you know, to promote Forbidden Door, which is again and you know, I hate sounding like I'm negative, but Forbidden Door essentially is a cool h You're right, you know it's cool. It's a cool it's it's about all the belts.
Yeah, it's.
It's meaningless.
Yeah.
I I kind of haven't read idea and feel free to disagree with me because I'm not even sold on.
Its agree with you. I disagree with you already. What else is new? No?
No, Basically, like, as we've mentioned in the past couple of weeks, the original purpose of Forbidden Door was to set up like Amazing dream matches, but all the dream match all the dream Matches are can be made with people who are already in ae W. So maybe like Forbidden Door as it is, with the well sort of having run dry, sort of run its course. I mean you can still do like New Japan and stardom crossover stuff that why not do it at Wrestle Dream and reform Big Door to something else.
Yeah, I think a lot of us are kind of circling the same general idea. Like I've used the term the show's non canon, Kelson's used the term momentum killer just is now saying completely, you know, change the focus of the shows. I think the purpose of Forbidden Door now that the aw fan base is comfortable and understands AW works with New Japan and CMLL talent all year now, right, it doesn't have a lot of the special because the big stars from New Japan now all work for AW.
There's or at least the ones that we were initially most excited, they've still got stars. I love Zach Saber Junior to death right, but a lot of the dream matches. To Jess's point, they've they've are, they're all. They occur regularly now because everybody works together. So how do you change this pay per view? And I think they should they should have focus on Forbidden Doors a couple uh
key matches of talent that people need to earn. So for Bidden Door is like a three or fourmat showcase where they're competing for a chance at the you know, maybe the tag Belts Unified every year or something like that, or it's something for the light heavyweight title between CML New Japan. Like you come up with a couple matches that you can then run your local promatting with talent and who qualifies for them like this women's four weight.
This is a great way to segue into it. Right, everybody's earning that shot for that place and that they the number one contender match. So do things like that so you can run your programs on your own show on who's earning the shot for this dream match, and then the week before you only need to get everybody qualified on TV and you're good to go. You can show video clips of the other promotions of their people
qualifying for these four big matches. You flesh out the rest of the pay per view with title matches and other big feuds from your regular TV, and you kind of kill two birds with one stone and formalize what this pay per view is every year, whether it's this format or something else. But to your point, Kelson, change change what the vibe of this is and qualify it for the fans, because it isn't the dream match pay
per view anymore. We get those all the time. We've seen all of the big ones pretty much, so it needs something else. So rebrand the purpose of this pay per view or just turn it into a big super show on a Wednesday night. Yeah, I don't think it's strong.
Forbidden. Forbidden door to me is Grand Slam. It's a bit. It's that it would be I agree with you, it would be a Dynamite Grand Slam. It would be beautiful to be done that way. Grand Slam.
If going forward it's like this where they've got three big aw versus Aw matches and the rast are just fun tag matches that they put together from various storylines and promotions, and just have it be a party show like a lot of the Grand I think it would be a really fun pay per view. But your point, just make it a Wednesday Grand Slam, or or or a four hour show between Dynamite and Collision, you know, to.
Your point, at to Justic's point. Look, this year we had Russell Dynasty on January fifth, took place at the Tokyo Tokyo Dome in Japan. That was basically a forbidden door show. Why do we need to forbidden door shows? In a year people have been calling for Grand Slam Japan. I mean I've seen it posted on x and on Blue Sky and even on the aw phan Hub subreddit, and I think I've even seen it on our discord server. If you have Grand Slam Japan, why do you need it forbidden door?
Yeah?
Yeah, I agree, we don't. We don't need it, But I think it's just something that Tony won't let go of because he feels like maybe he did the word and created the I don't know.
I don't.
I mean, I don't know if I would apply that sort of negative connotation to it. I mean, there's a paper that lives here, right, so maybe it's not Forbidden Door and they call it something different later and Forbidden Door just turned into a super show. The idea of a cross promotional show, an official cross promotional show, has a.
Lot of them do work.
Why we we fans got excited about the very first Forbidden Door, the idea that you're going to get a super show it's Marvel versus DC, Like that's got an allure. I think the problem, to Kelson's point, is just the delivery and the medium they're delivering it. Does it need to be a pay per view show? If so, then you need to explain to the fat the fans how this is going to work going going forward. Why are we excited about this? What is the purpose of these matches?
Is it just a dream match? How do you come up with those? Because I don't think it's just a dream match. Pay per view is good enough anymore. There needs to be more purpose to this pay per view if they're going to keep running it as a pay per view. Yeah, I still want to run the promotion versus promotion stuff. I just this just this format is getting kind of dull. Go ahead, Jess.
Sorry, I was going to say, there's only one last true forbidden door left, and I'm pretty sure that's hermetically sealed and welded shut.
Yeah. Well, we've talked about that before. It ain't gonna happen. You know, it's not going to happen. Not gonna happen. It is what it is. You know. Let's move on because I want to get to the last topic and then we can go into our pot pourrie. This is not really a big topic, but I think it does need to be discussed. Look, with Dustin Rhodes now having knee replacement surgery, needs two knee replacement surgeries. He's having surgery on August twenty first. I don't know if they're
doing both needs at the same time. I don't even know if that's possible, or if that's done often or what. But he's going to be out according to Feifel, he's going to be out well into twenty twenty six, so you know, but Dustin Rhodes holds with Semi Gavara the Ring of Honor tag team championships, and with the Von Erics he holds the six man titles. What do we do here? I mean, are we going to just replace
Dustin Rhodes with somebody else? I mean, I guess you could put Sammy in with the Van Erks, and I guess that makes sense. But do you vacate the tag team titles at this point or what do you do? What do you think?
I don't know what else you could do other than like go with the old root of making interim champions.
Yeah, but when you're talking well interim champions though, I mean, Dustin Rhodes isn't going to be around at best until maybe this time or even later in twenty twenty six at best, and we don't even know what he's gonna be able to do at that point. I hope he comes back better and stronger, because I mean, he's Dustin freaking Roads. But yeah, I don't think you can have an interim championship for over a year.
Well, when ones when one's hurt, another one's not. It's not like the other one. I don't know much about the I know the Vaughan Erics, and they're very good. I don't know which one is the better one to put with Sammy, but eventually they'll probably have to lose that and come back to it because I don't I don't see Sammy and you know which everyone Eric or whatever is a viable one.
So I'm thinking a little bigger picture on why they may have played these cards out the way they did with Adam Cole making his announcement and then then putting the belt on Dustin that night, only for him to drop it for Kyle, Like I'm starting to see some of these pieces fall in, and I'm wondering if they knew he was going to need these knees, right, Like, this isn't a surprise thing, so they put the belt on him knowing full while he was gonna have surgery.
So that kind of tied into all of this. And then also I'm thinking, is you know they've had some trouble booking that trios and the Tag divisions and Ring of Honor. They'd kind of book themselves into a corner and become really stagnant if you're looking to relaunch those two divisions. This is just this whole scenario just was handed to you on a silver platter. You've got an
upmoment to take away from Cole's down moment. You've got to wait for a veteran to put over a top young star with his first title on TV in an incredible match that's very highly regarded by pretty much everybody who watched it. He gets to announce he's going out afterwards after we saw him kill himself out there, and you're able to use that as a way to explain meaning to relinquish the titles and relaunch the tag and
the trio's division. Like I tie all that together. Maybe it's coincidence, but I think this is them taking advantage of a situation that just kind of fell in their laps to turn a real sour note with Cole ostly having to retire and getting good out of the opportunities that it opened up with some creative booking too to accomplish a few things. Maybe I'm wrong, could be all coincidence, but I look at it together and that kind of
all those pieces kind of a fall into place. So I think they dropped the titles and just use this as an opportunity to relaunch and relaunch both of those divisions.
Yeah, I agree. Look, I want to bring up something that isn't on our agenda tonight, but I do want to talk about the match between Broddo and the Young Bucks on Dynamite tonight because I can't wait to see what they do to the Bucks. I think that this is one of the most entertaining things that aw has done in the Goofy wrestling department in a long time.
Yes, sorry, well was there a sad chest?
But what is that? Inisure?
He did?
Like, what was that move?
I don't know what you're talking about?
So he whipped him and he kicks them and flips them like, oh, you're not to explain it.
You're you're yeah, but you're I'm trying to think of you're Are you talking about the Bucks or you're talking about Brodido Brodido? Sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't.
Know what that was.
That was, Like finisher was like, I have never seen that before.
That was a circus move. That was that looked like circus acrobats.
But to your point, like the fun stuff, this is the type of creative ship you can do when you've got two guys that are really different, that have really great creative minds and just let him do it. I mean, Jess was kind of going to start touching on that. I think I'm on some of the fun things, So go ahead, Jess.
No, I was just gonna say, it's it's so funny that I love it when this happens that, like with a group or a heel, like either a heel or group of heels in this case, are so universally low that the moment the opportunity comes along, nobody wants anything to do with them, not even solidary other fields. They are just absolute pariahs, and it's hilarious.
Well, the thing is that what's happening with the Bucks right now is actually endearing them the fans.
Yes, yeah, they are, go ahead, okay, yeah, I just I love watching the talent name and giving them the job or entrance and hear their last post was this is what happens when you spend all your budget on a boat for all in it's just little things like that.
I've never been a super.
Fan of the Bucks, but I've honestly warmed up to them because they're able to laugh at themselves and beat the joke, and they don't.
Have to do that. I'm glad you said that, because that takes a lot to go out there and have everybody make a fool out of you and you accept it and you play into it and give everything to it. I mean, I think the Bucks are doing fantastic work right now. I really do. And look at Brodido. If I told you nade me a good partner for Bandido, say in March, I don't think anybody would have said, oh yeah, Brody King No.
No.
Like two things that you guys hit on it too, Like this entire run from the EVP stuff up through now has been for the fan, the Internet fans, the people who hate them, who say they're arrogant and do all this stuff backstage. So they wrote themselves into being cocky EVPs that called the shots and ruined everything, and all these fans have always wanted a reason to hate these guys and treat them like crap and like the job they are. Well now they're actually giving their trolls
the opportunity to do that on TV. Like just the way they've twisted this whole run of their characters to just nitpick and poke at the Internet fans make fun of themselves. It's just been brilliant and Brodido and like the whole Brodido team up for your case, Like, where does that come from? I want to know who came up with that? Was that something Brody pitched? Was that
something Bandido pitched? Like this is a great example of keeping Brody on TV when his tag team, like the Dudes, continuing to get over more and more each week, Like who came up with this brilliant idea?
Well, you know what I think it came from was Grand Slam Mexico. Remember Brody King had a match in that event. Eddie was doing all these luchadors things, and I think Tony kan Tony Kannan going holy shit, I got an idea, you know, I really do. I think it really everything that Brody is doing right now with Bandido stems from the work he did at Grand Slam Mexico, saying hey, you know what he can do that? I got another question?
Wait, wait back to you said earlier Kelson early on, So we're talking about the purpose of the TNT title. Brody continues to get over more and more weekly as a babyface.
Is he the.
Logical person to do thrown Kyle in a few months.
Because I think he has to get over a little bit more. And what I mean by that is, I think he has to get some wins over people like I don't know, but maybe Brodido gets wins over the Hurt Syndicate. Uh you know that Brody gets some wins, Yeah, singles wins. Maybe Brody King gets wins over Claudio Cassanoli, even John Knox. Yeah, yeah, you know. I think you've got to build. Going being over with the wet could only go so far. I think you have to have credibility.
I'm not saying that Brody King doesn't have credibility. I'm saying that he needs to have in ring wins. Yeah.
Build, that's the point of those the TNT title, Like that's the practice belt. Do we see them as do they carry them? Do they come across on TV as a champ? Do they speak like a champion with that title? Do we believe that they are a believable champion? Like those mid card belts. That's how they get the reps to become and learn how to be champions. The Rock didn't make his name as a heavyweight CHAMPI he made his name as intercontinental champion. Like that's where that all
gets fleshed out. You know, that's the purpose of those titles. Yeah, all right, back to your initial point that popped into my head when you I just connected those dots when you said that, and I was like, wait, I got to get this out or I'll forget and I'll never come back to it. So go back to your initial point on that.
Sorry. What I was gonna ask was I honestly feel that, uh, whatever is going on with the young Bucks right now is a gateway to them becoming babyfaces again.
I can see it, Like it's fun watching them get their come up once for now, But the longer it goes on, the more they're gonna it's gonna have a sad puppy out in the rain effect.
They're gonna play into it, and and it's gonna make it like, hey, you know what, the Bucks are actually pretty damn cool. Yeah, you know, you know you're gonna have a good time when you see the Bucks out there. You know the Bucks have gotten I will say this, I believe that FTR and the Bucks are kind of in the same uh category here when their matches have the have a sameness to them, you know what I mean.
I mean, tell me a Young Bucks match on TV that stood out, or an FTR match on TV that stood out just for the match, not what happened before or after a match, just for the match. That's my point. I think what's going on now is that the Bucks are actually kind of poking funds at themselves and it's working, and it's working and it's endearing.
Yeah.
I just want to see Brodido when I don't want to see Young Bucks FTR finals, I really do want to see Rodido go all the way with this because I think they're a good combination. There's something fresh, and that's what AW needs right now.
Yeah, that's what I meant about, like ca Brodido with brody King, you know, to get brody King moreover, I don't think you need to put Bandid. I think Bandido is where he needs to be right now. Uh huh yeah, you know, as the Ring of Honor, world champion, et cetera. Brody King is kind of beltless right now. And I think by having Bandido and brody King going against a hurt syndicate at Forbidden Door, I think that's good. That's a damn good match. Plus plus, Bandido is a Mexican wrestler,
and that's kind of forbidden doorsh. I hate to say it like that, but you know it's the truth. Yeah.
You know the other thing too, because of Brody's size, Like that's one of the problems with the Hurt syndeket. It's just they're just two enormous human beings. So even the better tougher tag teams like FTR, they're a little short, but like you don't look at them and say they're small guys, but they look like small guys next to
the Hurt Syndicate. You need somebody in there, like a Brodito, like you need you need Brody king in there from a size perspective, and they've had I believe, wasn't there an eight man or something where they bumped into each other. There were some meat spots. That's kind of like I was super excited about the Murder Hawks going after him because MURDERHWK monsters or whatever, because they're big, right, It's
just two yeah, lost teams. So like Broddo could be interesting because Andido can wrestle a bigger style like Penta. Pentas kind of can wrestle a big man style even though he's smaller. And and Aido can do that too, and then you've got Brody's size and believability when he's squaring up against the other two hosses out there that I think it could be a real fun match. They don't need to go over You just need to make
Brody look good. But I think that would be far more entertaining Helson than than than another bucks FTR final or something like that. Yeah, I'll see myself up.
Look, look a point.
We lost Helson for a second there.
You did as I was because I was muted being an idiot, But I'm interested. It was interesting that he brought up Penta, right, How big do you think Bandido is compared to Penta as far as size wise.
I don't think he.
I think people think he's smaller, but he's his size.
Who wise Banda or wait, Peta. Peta is listed as five foot eleven Okay, yeah, Bandido is five to seven, okay to eleven. He's not the biggest guy in the world, but he as you said, and I and I totally agree with what you said. There's a difference between Look. Look on the women's division, Tekla, she's tiny, but she wrestles dig Bandido's not the biggest guy, but he wrestles big. Yeah, you know, so that's a really good point. Well, look,
let's move on to our pope pirie. Does anybody have a pote prie for this evening?
I'll go first.
Here you go first?
Okay, Oh boy, do go ahead? Well somebody go, let's go?
Oh me? Okay.
I guess, like I don't know if anybody else was going to talk about it. I guess I get ahead. Better talk about it. The great, big, ugly beast in the room.
Please don't talk about me again. I swear to God, how tired are you guys talking about me? No, it's a little I'm not I'm not that big. I may be an ugly beast, but I'm not that big.
What with your discoord moderator? So we don't know how big? Get in mind?
What is the what's the beast in the room.
I'm trying to talk about something serious. I'm talking about I'm talking about the end of Summer Slam Night too, a certain event involving that east.
That's a different show, for a different promotion. They have that on the they have admission whatever. That's a different you know.
For me for me, Look, I'll chime in uh. To me, it was shameful. Absolutely, I didn't like it. I thought it was a slap in the face. Not only two women in the world, but I can't imagine being a female wrestler in WWE. And I'm sure some don't care or whatever or someone going to suffer in silence. But I had to eat at some some of the women there. I felt bad. I really did. I mean that there's just no you know, look the way I look at
it is. Once again, throughout the week, I saw people on social media saying, I'm going to give that aw think a try now because I am tired of this shit, and so I'm glad they did it for the simple reason is that, hey, more people are gonna be watching aw now.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's all well and good, but I wish it would not have taken something like this for it to happen. I'm sure there's other straws, last straws that could have been happened. This is a pretty big last straw.
It's been since all in I'm not gonna lie.
Yeah, I mean, and the defense of the defense of brock Lesner has been from you know rabbit, a WWE fans is that he's innocent until proven guilty. Well, the thing is is that he knew, he knew. There's no doubt whatsoever that he knew what was going on. Did he say anything? We don't know, you know, but it seems like he didn't. I mean, you can't. You can't say he's innocent to prove it till proven guilty when common sense dictates, you know what I mean.
And he had the checker pass dating all the way back to the to the uh fly the playing right from Hale, So I mean he has a checkered pass and he he has that with Sable and he with Destin's ex wife and stuff like that.
So he has the past to crew that he's public guilty.
But well, the only person that WW can bring back now is Vince McMahon, and that'll probably be done at the next the week of the next age of It just seems like when a when WW has a pay per view, they just talked about a w endlessly and uh and it's it's I don't know, it's just that let's move on because we can talk about this and get nowhere. Who else has.
A I just want to give Tony Kahan a pad on the back for being every every person, every wrestler that has talked to interviews has said that that man is a genuine man and cares about his his employees, and that's what wrestling needs right now. They need a good guy to cheer for. And I don't care what to say about his booking. Yes he has some questionable booking, but the man cares about the industry and the wrestling world has to have a savior and it's going to
be him for now. And if it leads to more people watch him, great.
Hey Jake Hager said he was a communist.
Well, Jake Hager is also very but.
I know that that was the joke.
Yeah, yeah, Barry, did you have one? I do?
So.
I don't know who was messing around on the Socials yesterday, but on Blue Sky there is an account called aw on TV and I'm not sure if they're officially affiliated with the show or not, but what they are, so they they posted because I follow them and it's just you know, here's coming up, but whatever. They posted the opening to Dynamite without any audio, basically saying we can't use the song Cleveland Rocks from the Drew Carey Show
I'm playing, but all of you can. Somebody did, but the rest of us just remixed it with just amazing bangers. So if you haven't checked it out, go on there. I did five or six. There's I think probably over a hundred of a bunch of songs. Some are funny, some are really really good. It was a lot of fun, a lot of a lot of a lot of real positive comments, a lot of people really just enjoying the content.
It's one of those feel good kind of viral moments that happens just very briefly now and then, and it was a fun few hours yesterday and it's worth checking out if anybody hasn't seen them.
Yeah, we actually had a couple of them posted on the aw pan up subreddit today. Yeah you know, yeah, and they are it is fun. I actually I actually did one, but I didn't post it because I was trying to sink it and I couldn't sink it right. But I actually did, uh the aw Dynamite opening with baby Metals in the name of they're instrumental and uh and it's and it's actually really perfect, but I just couldn't get it SYNCD right. So enjoying everybody else's. Yeah, we had the.
Thank you for being a friend and I did. It's like I heard I heard the baseline hit at the beginning and I'm like, oh, this is and roll in my eyes and I was dying by the end of it. Yeah, I'm so excited. Yeah, there were some fun ones.
Yeah, so my potpourri is this.
Uh.
I remember Forbidden Door. I don't remember if it was last year or two years. I think it was last year. Stephanie va Kerr against Mercedes Monet and what was at the time probably Mercedes Monett's best match. And what happened to Stephanie Verkerr She got signed by WWE last week. Uh, there were reports going on and it's kind of been's pretty enlightening from what some of the dirt sheets have
been saying. Uh. The report was that guys like et Cicero have dual contracts with both CMLL and ae W. Uh and the belief is that a lot of guys in CMLL now and women have dual contracts with CMLL and AW. This helps AW tremendously, and it helps CMLL tremendously because to these wrestlers are getting more money and more notoriety. You know what I mean. So, yeah, I mean at AW, I mean Takeshta has dual contracts with
and I believe doesn't. Kevin Knight also have a dual contract with New Japan, So you know, I just want to point that out that this is something that will prevent, you know, these talents from getting signed out from under CMLL and AW because now they've got dual contracts. And I think this is a good thing, So look for more CMLL talent like Mystico to be featured in a W.
I think it's great. I think it's good for the business. And to your point, the talent in Mexico cannot make as much money there as they can in the States, and many of them don't necessarily want to move here, and if you can close that gap and make everybody happy, I mean, it's a no brainer.
Yeah, I mean, it's just I can't think of anything bad about this, and it really does help the the wrestlers in CMLL, and I'm sure that they're not breaking the bank either, so it definitely helps AW.
Because TV I'm there, I'm sorry.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, look at it exactly. I agree with you. That's what I was gonna say. That's just Sarah being on TV, Mystico being on TV. You know, these guys are fantastic and they fit. That's the big thing.
Is they fit, you know, I mean Luca fits in naturally with is the AW product. That's one of the reasons why the Lucha Brothers were just so easy. You can just put them in anywhere you can. You can plug that style in because there's so much focus on athleticism and the Lucas are teaching a lot of the talent and the states that don't have this how to
play up the crowd more like. That's a big thing in Lucha Libre, learning how to play the crowd, and it's they don't really teach that here and you're seeing some of that rub off, and I think that's a good thing for AW as well. There's a lot of learning going on in real time in front of our eyes, and it's pretty cool to watch.
Treating the talent well results on a better product for the people.
He knew. Yeahk just brought up something in the in the chat. Last week was the two year anniversary of Karushida beating Tony Storm of the Outcasts to become AW Women's World Champion. On Collision two years ago today was the debut of Timeless Tony Storm. In AW, she wasn't fully Timeless Tony Storm yet. It was still like a work in progress, but you could definitely see it happening.
AW was never the same.
Yeah you know, yeah, go ahead, yeah.
I was just gonna say A Sunset Boulevard is one of my favorite old movies. So when she first started doing that, I'm like, oh, she's doing Norma Desmond. I didn't think she would be able to get that much mileage out of it. But now I can't really imagine her doing anything.
Doing she was doing Norma Desmond in All About Eve. There was a matchup of movies there, but it was it means look, I mean right, it's not off. It's two years today. It was on Collision August fifth, twenty twenty three that she broke that character.
Out two years to become one of the one of, if not arguably the biggest women's star. Well maybe not the biggest, but I think the best one in the star in the United States today, biggest.
Star is born. How many gimmicks? How many gimmicks do you know? Of that last two years and is still going strong.
Better each week. Her promos are better now, like people people look forward to her promos now like they used to Max cast her raps like oh, Tony's got the mic because it's like, what's she going to say next?
It's it's yeah, it's ridiculous.
I just loved that interview that Jews did talk about their relationship and how let's see love each other and I about living in that household is craziness.
Yeah, I mean, so yeah, that's that. I mean that was a good, good thing to bring up. MK. So thank you. So that's gonna do it for Ignition for tonight. We'll be back later on this evening right after Dynamite, will be doing all Lee Talk for our aw Dynamite review show. I kind of think that this show is going to have some stuff stuff going on. I really do, it really does. I think it's going to be a fun show tonight, and I'm looking forward to it. I'm
looking forward to talking about it. And so we'll see everybody tonight, uh at right after Dynamite goes off the air. And so for the aw Fan podcast team, this is Kelson. Good night, everybody, good night,