¶ Intro / Opening
Welcome back to another episode of iGaming Daily where the insider sports team, myself Colin Williams and Kieran O'Connor will be joined by Joe Streeter, Casino Beats editor and also another Jake Paul fan. And we're going to be talking about the Jake Paul, Mike Tyson fight that happened last Friday on Netflix. What it means for Netflix's future sports content broadcast
strategy and some of what this might mean for better operators as well on the platform. And then in the second half of the show, payment expert editor Ted Omkloy will be speaking to Joe from the Pay 360 Thin Crime event in London to discuss all the ongoing developments in fraud protection. But first, we have a word from our sponsor Optimove, the number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market and a proud sponsor of today's episode of iGaming
Daily. So Joe, Kieran, how are you both doing today? You okay? I'm great actually, just trying to figure out what I did last weekend in the little recording bit then, but I'm doing alright, yeah. Yeah, I'm all good thank you Kyle, I'm very cold, it's freezing in Manchester at the moment but yeah, I'm all good. Ready for some real football to come back this weekend after another international break, I know we're all yearning for some Premier League. Yeah, I know,
yeah I know, I agree. International football is not the one, but what was the one on last Friday was the Jake Paul, Mike Tyson fight. Joe, you mentioned on a previous episode of Our Gaming Daily last week that you were going to stay up and watch the event so... What were your thoughts on the fight? What were your thoughts on the event? And did it soak the appetite or was it just the circus that it was being labelled as? Oh yeah, you'll be happy to know
that I made it. I did stay up all through the night on Friday night to watch the fight. Fight? I used the term fight with, you know, asterisks. It wasn't really much of a fight. It was a massive event. How do you think these things are better when you watch them live and you engage with people that are also watching live? Is it good fun? It's all part of the spectacle.
Yeah, it wasn't a great fight, the main fight between Jake Paul and Mike Tyson. It was plagued by buffering issues and streaming issues on Netflix, which I don't know how many people kind of anticipated that would be the case, but there were some real teething problems for Netflix when it came to streaming the event. The fight wasn't good, it didn't live up to
the hype. The Taylor Serato fight beforehand did. That was fantastic. But yeah, this was Netflix's kind of opportunity to dip their toes into the water of sports streaming and specifically combat sports streaming and the water must have felt pretty good even though there were problems that water felt good and I think they're going to jump right in because I think something like 65 million people viewed the event. Yeah, it showed that there is an appetite for this
type of content. largely thanks to what they did with the countdown show. I think that really got the taste buds tingling but there's only so many times you can miss and as much as so many people did view this event they watched this kind of non-event fight where Tyson looked pretty good for 30 seconds, he looked, it was fun for 30 seconds and then his legs kind of
got stuck into the ground and he did start to move like a 60 year old man. there's only so many times you can kind of get it wrong before audiences don't buy into the hype so much. So I think when they go back, they need to come back with something a bit stronger, something that is more going to live up to the appetite, dare I say, some real boxing or go the complete
other way. We know they've got WWE Monday Night Raw, so yeah, I think it's going to be interesting to see how they continue that storytelling that they do for these types of events. the type of sports content strategy at the moment where you're mixing storytelling aspects of sports with, like you said, whether you want to call it a real boxing fight or not, it's
still blurring the lines of storytelling and competitive sports. But Kieran, just wanted to get your thoughts on the event and kind of the whole overall celebrity social media events that we've been seeing because this show, no signs of slowing down right? Yeah, so unlike Joe I didn't stay up and watch the fight. Soft! I sort of predicted it wouldn't live up to
the hype. That's basically from my experience of watching every other one of these J-Paul and influencer type fights where you stay open, doesn't really live up to it, but that's what they're all about right? These influencer matches, they build you up, they usually have like a big ex-star, especially Jake Paul's last fights. Have a big ex-athlete, even from the fighting world sometimes, a big name who's been in there, done it. Sort of plays on your past thinking,
oh, can he do it? And oh, there's people looking at this fight, the Mike Tyson, though he's 58, they were still thinking it's Mike Tyson. He's like the most, one of the most aggressive, playful people. This is playing on nostalgia, yeah? Yeah, so there's all that. These sort
of fights don't watch when he's trying to slow him down. You've got KSI's boxing promotion Misfits, I think that streams on Dezone Yeah That's the whole market on its own where they have got two influencers fighting against each other You sort of know what you're going to get with that, it's quite good But in terms of this, I think Jake Paul will carry on doing it I think we'll have a discussion later on who we think he might look for next But yeah,
in terms of Netflix, I think they should pursue this Listen, it got, was it 60 million? 65 million concurrent viewers at its peak globally by the way. Even the boxing match was, like Darren as Joe said, it's a success in Netflix's books and I don't see why they wouldn't maybe look for it. They've got to fix those streaming issues though, right? They've got to fix those streaming issues if they're going to continue to do these types of events. Yeah, do you think
these, this type of, there's still a market for this, right? This is only going to... continue this type of novelty boxing if you like. This as a market is obviously working right now, I think it's showing signs of slowing down when you just take into effect the sheer amount of people that were in attendance as well at the AT&T Stadium in Dallas, Texas. I think that is the biggest NFO stadium, it hosts a capacity of about 110,000. So to get that many
people in there is quite an achievement. It's also broke the record, the gate record for that stadium, which was 18 million, which has doubled. the previous record which was set by Canelo Alvarez. Wow. And what we're hearing as well aren't we about Jake Paul, he's angling for that Canelo Alvarez fight isn't he? Stop, stop, I thought you might say that and I don't have to correct you on that, there's no way he's going to do that. As a boxing fan myself,
I take no notice of it really. I mean I like the marketing, what Jake Paul's doing at the moment, he's creating the villain, the heel persona is what I call professional wrestling terms. So yeah, he's done a really good job at marketing himself like Floyd Mayweather did back in the day. you tuning in to see him get beat, you tuning in to Matt Tyson hoping
to hit that lucky right hand to knock him out. But at the end of the day he's doing a really good marketing job and I think it was a really smart decision to pick up Netflix because what Netflix has is a single feed that goes to every single country that it's active in and where is Netflix that's not active right now? It's everywhere, right? So to get... Mason. You touched on a really important point by the way. You said like as a boxing fan, as a hardcore
boxing fan, I'm not into this. And I think that's quite important because the this type of fights is misfits fights. They're not for you. They tap into a whole different demographic of fans, sports fans, social media fans, if you like, that isn't necessarily your hardcore boxing fans. That's really interesting. And then when they do bring in somebody like Mike Tyson, you get this kind of crossover where you do have a little bit of interest because you want
to see Mike do the business and that nostalgia. Yeah, definitely. It's definitely a good marketing strategy and it's something that Netflix have just took on board and yeah, 65 million viewerships globally is quite a feat but I think we'll just turn it more onto Netflix, Kieran. Do you believe, obviously Joe mentioned there that he experienced some buffering issues as well and a lot of people did. They took to X and other social media platforms to voice their concerns. Do
you believe that... Netflix anticipated the amount of people that would be tuning in and then also to add on to this question here. You obviously covered a story that Netflix have picked up two NFL games on Christmas Day which is a huge deal, especially in the US because the US is somewhat of a holiday tradition to watch live sports on Christmas Day. The NFL
recently joining the party with the NBA showing games on Christmas Day. Do you think this will be a concern for the NFL and for the WWE as well who have also... landing on Raw in January as part of a 10 year deal? I mean to answer your first question, do I think that they anticipated this amount of people, which as you say was a feat. Why wouldn't they I think? Cause a big streaming platform, they're jumping straight in. It wasn't as if it was a testing event.
They had Mike Tyson and Jake Paul, two massive names at the minute. So I can't imagine why they wouldn't think that they're gonna try and get as many people in as possible. These buffering issues. We see it a lot with a lot of other streaming broadcasters and when you look at
these big fights there are always issues. I wasn't watching it so I don't know how bad they were but from what I gather there's always teething issues and I'm sure the NFL and WWE and RAW will be looking at that streaming thinking, okay there was good parts of the production, I've heard the production was pretty good all in all. Well yeah, apart from the interview, the Mike Tyson interview that we've all saw before. Oh, the infamous backstage. Yeah, backstage.
I'm quite on the nose at Joe, yeah. But yeah, there are little things that need to get right, but Kieran, I agree with you to an extent. You know, there are TV issues and I think Netflix, like you say, will have anticipated just how many people. You don't bring together Jake
Paul and Mike Tyson and not know that the world is going to be watching. But these teething problems, they really hindered from the, I watched from the start of the Serrano tailor fight to the end of the Mike Tyson fight and they really, really obscured the viewing experience. They made it not nice to the point of where there was an element where I was, I'm going to have to just tune in tomorrow here because this is so, such an obstacle to enjoy in this
spectacle. So yeah, they need to be fixed. I think we. We saw Dzone when Dzone first kind of entered the market. There were a few TV issues there. It was kind of awkward to navigate. Nothing that hindered the viewing experience quite like this. Yeah, I have another part that I'm, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the way that Netflix set this production up, they sort of, they didn't sell any rights for any radio stations or stuff like that, like
talks, but maybe, may sometimes give some coverage on some big fights. With this one, it was just all Netflix, which. Wow. The platform almost sells itself, right? It has over, I think it has over 280 million subscribers worldwide monthly. So the platform itself just sells. Like when you go on there, which you probably do with Daler, that is just going to sell itself. That image of Jake Paul versus Mike Tyson, you can probably set a reminder. Yeah, that is Netflix
itself is the marketing platform pretty much. They can do that with, they don't need radio shows. They don't need interviews. They can put the press conferences on YouTube. and they can really put their heart and soul into these countdown shows that just do so well. So yeah, that's quite interesting that they didn't sell the rights, really changing the face of broadcasting.
Well, funny you should mention that, Joel, because after this quick break, we are going to be talking about the ad inventory and how it was all completely sold out for both those NFL Christmas Day games that will be on Netflix next month. So stick around and we'll be back in a couple of minutes. All right, and welcome back. to this episode of iGamingDaily where
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we're going to, well we spoke about the Jake Paul Mike Tyson fight and how it wasn't really that much of an ad presence on the feed, but Kieran you wrote about the article that we mentioned before on Insider Sport about the Netflix selling out all of it's ad inventory for both the two NFL games happening on Christmas Day. I think it's the... Kansas City Chiefs versus the Pittsburgh Steelers and Houston Texans versus Baltimore Ravens. And that is when Beyonce
will be performing as well, won't you? Yeah, that just got announced, that today got announced. Yeah, that recently got announced this week. So, yeah, I don't think it can be understated how quite significant this is for Netflix because it's tested out its streaming capabilities to some positives and some negatives during the Jake Paul versus Mike Tyson fight. Now it's going to really ramp up with these two NFL games, Kieran. So what are some of the
sportsbook partners looking like for those two games? And will this be, will betting operators be rushing to Netflix for ad space if they continue to pick up more live sports in the future? Yeah, so already you've got FanDuel, who was announced as an official sponsor. Who is, by
the way, let me just add in, they are already an official sponsor of the NFL. And I believe they have deals with around 7 of the league's teams as well So they're already a massive name over in the US and with NFL fans they're already quite well acquainted with the sportsbook In this deals particularly you've got FanDuel who joined Verizon They will be the two principal sponsors of the coverage on Christmas Day with them two games In that package I believe they
have an in show feature which will sort of give some game analysis and integrate in probably some of Fanjul's offerings and odds. So that's always great coverage there and some really good exposure. Additionally, as well as the other advertisement partners, they will have in-game advertisements, just like your traditional adverts that you'd always see. Now, in terms of exposure for Fanjul and the other partners and people who sold advertisements to, it's
gonna be huge. As you mentioned, the NFL, Christmas Day games, they've become quite a tradition now. They get a lot of viewers in, a lot of people tuning in. And on top of that, Netflix recently announced that they have 70 million monthly active users globally on this advertisement subscription tier, which pretty much lets people buy subscription to Netflix for a bit of a less cost. An extra amount of money per month, yeah. just as long as they agree to sort of
view advertisements as you would on normal television. Right, I did not know that to be fair. No, I mean, yeah, it's quite interesting to see how if they were to continue to pick up Christmas Day games along the way because if it does become a success you could even start to see prices for ad spaces going up to even the to the point of a Super Bowl. We know that they cost about six, seven million just for 30 seconds on TV over in the US. So it could be... very, very
lucrative for Netflix if this goes off as a success. But Joe, Kieran mentioned it before about FanDuel integrating betting analytics and technology. Is there any other in-app betting integrations we could see within the Netflix feed? Not just the NFL and American football, but obviously other sports if they were to start to pick them up? Yeah, we know how big a betting event the Jake Paul-Mike Tyson fight was. So definitely it's going to be interesting kind
of piggybacking on what Kieran said. It's going to be interesting how they ensure those adverts reach the right audiences because you have to, you know, obviously there's different regulations globally and Netflix is largely just one stream, right? There's not a different stream for each region so it's going to be different, going to be interesting to see how they adapt their advertising and ensure that it's okay for each framework. But we 100% could see companies
get innovative with this type of thing. think the UFC do a really cool thing where, and you know, so do most other sports franchises to be fair, sports leagues, where they have a betting show, you know, a show before the show on the top picks, you have the tipsters come in. There's no reason we couldn't see that on Netflix, providing it doesn't, they take steps to ensure it doesn't go to the wrong audiences. Yeah, 100%, I think we've also seen it with
Dezone. with the zone bet, the way they kind of integrate their app into the streaming site and into the product is very strong. It certainly must bolster engagement. So it is going to be interesting to see how companies innovate in this space. Yeah, definitely as well. Well, we're coming towards the end, but I just wanted to get your guys thoughts on, because we did
on Inside of Sport, we did kind of like an in-depth analysis. just before the Paul and Tyson fight on the sporting strategy, the sports live sports content strategy of Netflix moving forward. They did do the Netflix Grand Slam, which was just an exhibition match between Carlos Alcáez and Rafael Nadal, and they also did what was called the Netflix Cup, which was just around the gulf between just a few golfers, and they both were successors, but there was nowhere
it didn't attract nowhere near as many viewers as Paul. versus Tyson did. Now, we've already mentioned the NFL, the two Christmas NFL games. They've also got a 10 year deal with the WWE, which is going to see WWE Raw be shown on Netflix from the start of January in a 10 year deal, which that is... 10 years is crazy, right? It's a quite... You've never heard of anything like
that. It's definitely a deal that I've really found interesting because you match the storytelling aspect of what Netflix are great for, match with that with what WWE is with all these characters and... you know, storytelling beats that they like to tell. That could be a really, really good marriage but... I'm really interested to see how they tap into the back catalogue as well. Obviously we know there's such a back catalogue of WWE. How they do that, you know,
is going to be so interesting. They can really draw some engagement from that. Yeah. And in the US, that is raw only in the US. So what about Payput Views? So for the UK customers, I'm not quite sure which other... markets they're doing this for but for the UK is definitely an over selected international markets the whole WWE content is going to be provided. So that's talking on Netflix, Raw, Smackdown, all their pay per view type I think they call them PLEs
now, including WrestleMania everything is included for UK customers on Netflix. Okay so that is interesting because that is where I think you know Raw will be Raw and astronomical, but for some of those bigger pay-per-views, you might start to get some of the teething issues that you got with the Jake Paul Mike Tyson fight in terms of the live streaming and people want to watch that live too. So yeah, that's where they really need to sharpen up
on the streaming and the buffering and make sure that the platform is right. Yeah, and Netflix as a platform as well just provides so many more eyes. I mean, the NBA hasn't been running through issues right now. They're seeing their viewership decline. I'm not too... I think Premier League viewership over here is still quite steady but they also decided to drop their streaming partner Amazon Prime Video as part of their broadcast deal that's gonna
kick in... I think it's kicked in this season and it ends in 2029. So I was just gonna kind of pose a question to you guys. If there was a sport you would like to see on Netflix, knowing that we know their type of coverage right now, just basically solely off the pole, versus Tyson Fight, which sport would you like to see broadcasted? Yeah, I'm gonna sort of hit you with something else here. Rather than just one sport, I'm really surprised that they're not,
maybe they will in the future, but moving to esports as a whole sector. It's really taken off, especially inside of Arabia. And a lot of these teams have their own channels and a lot of it's streamed on things like Twitch, which is free live showing. But if you could really boost how these production levels come out and how maybe the stories of how these teams reach the finals and the events they're playing in. some background on them characters.
I think Netflix would be a great partner for that and it's a market they're not really competing in against other streaming broadcasters like Yiddy Zones. So they've got a real niche there that they could really walk into and make their own. Yeah, yeah that's definitely a good idea that to be fair because esports is definitely... Definitely increasing in popularity. Joe, have you got any thoughts? Yeah, so I don't think any sport needs a story as much as the fight
game, so it won't surprise you to hear that I'm going to keep it in combat sports. I think MMA has grown, I think the UFC does a fantastic job of telling the narratives of the fighters, that's what it's really engaging. We've obviously seen the rise of the PFL as well, I think that's something that maybe could do better, is just bring these narratives of these fighters to the We saw it with the Francis and Garnet fight. They did it brilliantly and all those fights
on the undercard as well. They really told the story and that was why that event was their most successful. But so maybe a combat sport that needs a leg up. We've seen the rise of kind of BKB, maybe like a Muay Thai, something like that where they could bring a sport to the rise to compete with MMA and boxing. Yeah, I'd love to see that. How about you? I would like to see, I would have liked to have seen the NBA on there, but more so for its
international audience. I know we have TNT over here, but I think it's so easily accessible, because Netflix is so easily accessible and it's just one feed that you can see the day after. I think that makes the world of difference for the European market, the UK market especially, I think that type of... seamless integration where it's shown live and then it's already available there for you on the platform. I think that makes the world of difference. But the
narratives in the NBA are brilliant as well. Like the stories, I was in New York for the Knicks' run last year, right? Or this year, but last season. And you just felt the whole nation behind, the whole region behind that team and the narratives of how they get there and the players. is a good one to tell the narratives on Netflix. Nick's fans are kind of crazy. Well, yeah, just before we wrap up, we're going to keep it in the spirit of Jake Paul fighting
retired sportsmen. So we're all football fans here, guys. So we can go UK footballer or any retired European, South American footballer. If you could see a retired footballer come out of retirement doing the boxing space to take on Jake Paul, who would you like to see? I'll go first, I think Wayne Rooney was a why not. He's mentioned it, hasn't he? He has mentioned it, he's flirted with it and he's also been in the influencer game a little bit playing
with YouTubers on FIFA so wouldn't be too far of a stretch. Yeah, that's a good pick to be fair. It is a good shout. In mine would be Ron Aldino, I would like to see some no-look shots maybe, I think he could really disguise the shots well. Slipping and moving, I'm not sure what shape he's kept himself in post football but yeah, mine would be Ron Aldino I think and yeah. What would your choice be? I mean, I've kind of went straight to Vinnie Jones
to be fair. Raw, just going for it. Just a proper, proper governor. He would take no nonsense from Jay Paul. I think your twos are getting victories and mine's gonna look flashy and get knocked out. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Maybe they could be the next opponent, who knows? He's fighting everyone. He's quite old at the moment. Probably all too young, yeah. Yeah. That's the end of part one, but stick around as Ted Onclay joins Joe from the Pay
360 Thin Crime event in London. We're joined by Ted Orme Clay, the editor of Payment Expert, who is in London at the Fin Crime Conference this week. Ted, tell us more about the conference. Cheers Joe, thanks for letting me dial in and have a chat. It's hosted by the Payment Association, obviously they're the ones who do pay 360, which we went to earlier in the year. As you said, this is financial crime 360, it's their follow-up to it, focusing in on. as the name suggests,
all sorts of elements of financial crime, financial crime prevention. There's obviously, as you'd expect, a lot of talk about fraud and money laundering, probably the two biggest ones. Also, cyber security, things like that. It's still, obviously it's only halfway through the day, so I've not been able to get the, I can't give you the most full report, I guess, so far. No, we've seen fraud really evolve in recent years, especially off the back of Covid,
Ted. I guess that really underlines the importance of these type of conferences and bringing together industry experts for these type of conversations. Yeah, 100% as you said. I think they actually did quite the session I was just in was talking about yeah, APP fraud, authorised push payment fraud, which has become quite a big talking point in the UK payment sector. At the start of that, Tony Craddock, the director of the Payment Association did quite an interesting
thing. You know, he just said to everyone, can you put your hands up in here if you've been? if at the very least a scammer has attempted to target you. And the vast majority of people in the room put their hands up. It's become a huge issue across the border thing in the UK finances and the UK law enforcement. Yeah, it's such a widespread issue. And obviously, you mentioned that panel that you were at just then with Tony Craddock. Are there any other
panels that you're looking forward to attending over the next couple of days? And any other big talking points you're really looking to delve into? Well, it's only just today. It's just a one day event, just a flea visit for me down to London. It's just as cold down here as it is up in Manchester, mate. I'll tell you that. Yeah, it snowed this morning. I've never
seen snow in London, mate. Mad. Anyway, bit of a side note. Yeah, there's quite a good, there's an interesting one coming up later about KYC, like a one size fits all approach to KYC that's got some... interesting people on it. There's another one later on I believe about cyber security that has Rahul Das from the LiveScore group who was quite a good speaker at our very own payment experts summit earlier in the year in Lisbon so I'll be hoping to get down to
that one as well and I've hopefully also managed to book in a conversation with the CEO of the Payments Association as well later on this afternoon so I'm looking forward to that one to kind of hear his perspectives on them. all these sort of topics talking about today, these topics around financial crime, but particularly within the context of the National Payments Review, no, Payments Vision, sorry, that got published last week, and Rachel Reeve's Mansion House
speech as well. Interesting, Ted. Part-time weatherman, part-time payments journalist, Ted Ornclay from London. I guess the payments review that you mentioned from Rachel Reeve, that is really the hot topic on the conference room floor this morning of... What people are buzzing about, what people are talking about and reacting to. Yeah, there's been a lot of
mention of it. I mean, yeah, the National Payments Vision was something that was recommended by Joe Garner, the former Nationwide CEO, and his Future of Payments review that got published late last year, I believe. So it's been something the industry has been waiting for quite some time. And it's kind of, I guess you could say, setting the tone for how the government is going to approach. regulation and sort of innovation in the UK payments, the payments side of financial
services relating to a lot of different issues. There's a lot of talk about open banking in there but also particularly in the context of what we're attending this conference in London for today there was a lot of mention around fraud as well and financial crime prevention. So yeah that's probably become the biggest talking point as you said in the payments sector at the moment in the UK. Interesting and from a gambling perspective obviously fraud is you
know a massive risk. I guess there's really important eyes for the gambling sector to have on this conference and on the developments of payment fraud and combatting payment fraud. Yeah, 100% not just fraud as well but also the money laundering side of things of course is a big consideration for these operators. The other thing to factor in is a lot of the discussions around things like deep fake technologies and how to counter them, that's obviously going
to be quite a big issue for related industries like betting like you say. worry of people using false identities to set up fraudulent accounts or even you know people to let's say to gamble underage or maybe self excluded gamblers things like that there's a lot of crossover between the two. Yeah 100% I agree really an interesting and important times and Ted obviously you're going to be reporting on the conference from on payment expert this week and in the
coming weeks as well yeah what can payment expert readers expect? Well hopefully I'm going to When I get time today I'm going to put out an article I wrote this morning from the speech delivered by, there was two speeches this morning, one by Visa's Chief Risk Officer and another by the Chair of the Police Authority Board I believe it was, talking about offering their respective opinions on financial crime and more importantly how to prevent it. So hopefully
going to be putting that one out soon. Going to look at getting some stuff out about APP fraud as well. As I said, hopefully I'm going to get a conversation booked in with the Payments Association CEO later today as well so our readers can expect an article from that at some point. And the panel I mentioned earlier about the one with Rathaldas, the live score group and some of the big speakers on later, I'm hoping to get something covered on that as well, as
well as a couple of other things. Fantastic, it's going to be raining insightful articles on payment expert Ted to keep with your weather theme But yeah, enjoy the rest of your trip. Enjoy the rest of the conference and Yeah, safe travels as well. Thanks. Thanks ever so much for joining us Ted. Cheers Joe. Have a good day