Massachusetts regulators broke new ground this week when they hosted a range of speakers to discuss the issue of limiting bettors. They are the first regulator to take a look into the issue, which, depending on who you ask, either affects a minuscule number of people or is a widespread tactic to assure that just about any successful bettor can't wager. We've got the highlights of the discussion, plus our own thoughts on what comes next on today's
episode of iGaming Daily. Shout out to the sponsor of iGaming Daily OptiMove, the number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market. You can get your free first month of OptiMove by clicking the link in the description below. Now that we've properly thanked them, I am Jessica Wellman, editor of SBC Americas, joined by media manager Charlie Horner. And I feel like it's kind of weird being back in the saddle. It's been a minute since we've done one of
these. The dream team is back. Yeah, it's been a few weeks. They couldn't handle us. I don't know, you know, sometimes I can't handle the M.G.C. to do a segue on this one. Massachusetts Gaming Commission. Charlie, you're not in the news rotation as much anymore, but I did make you tune back in to the meetings that just keep on giving for this discussion on limiting betters. Now that you've dipped your toe back in and you kind of knew what to expect with the M.G.C.,
what was your overall impression of this meeting and how it went? First of all, we should point out that it's a positive that the operators turned up. Yes, they did try this in May and balees came. Balees came this time, by the way, and did not say a word. They introduced themselves and then said nothing. Ditto, Penn and ESPN bad. Yeah, I think that's quite interesting in itself as well that a couple of operators joined the discussion but weren't willing to
participate. But generally I thought the discussion was, it was really interesting to see what the operators would actually say because clearly from the past they would rather keep their cards close to their chest on this and they weren't really willing to delve into too many specifics. Just a couple of statistics here and there, I think BetMGM said that they only
limited around 1% of bettors in. Massachusetts, whereas Fandl was saying that this was affecting around 0.04% of- So, they're kind of different statistics, not to nitpick you, but what the statistic Corey Fox of Fandl gave was that 0.043% of the bets on Fandl were placed at the maximum amount that they could wager. know, the vast majority of people, the amount that they wanted
to bet, they bet and they didn't, you know, hit the cap. Yeah. But I thought it was quite interesting to see how the two sides of this debate were laying out their arguments because it was very much the operator saying that, look, yeah, we do limit bettors, but it's only a very, it's a percentage of a percentage was the phrase that was repeated quite often. It's a really small number of bettors who are actually huge problem, we're well within our rights
to do this. And then on the other side, you had the regulators sort of saying, well, actually we do get a lot of complaints from betters about this. And then in the second half of the meeting, there was other industry stakeholders sort of putting the idea forward that, well, maybe it is a bit of a problem. Maybe we do need a little bit more transparency from the operators on this point. And I thought as a starting point for this. wider discussion that's inevitably
going to happen. It was intriguing. S1 05.00 Definitely. We won't subject you all to the full three-hour discussion, but I think it would be useful, as Charlie mentioned, to see a bit of how people framed things. So we're going to take a second and you're going to hear from two people. First, you're going to hear from Cory Fox, who was the representative from FanDuel. Then you're going to hear from Joe Brennan Jr., who's the executive chair of Prime Sportsbook.
Even though he is an operator, they don't operate in Massachusetts. And he appeared with the group kind of arguing that limiting was a problem representing what they were deeming like alternative sports betting models. So check out two sides to the same argument. If these operators in your state are limiting and shutting down winning players, not taking their action, what are those players supposed to do? What is their alternative? Because you have players that
are willingly trying to enter a regulated market, taxed, well-regulated, visible market. And you have the operators who are talking about transparency and security and risk and trying to avoid the next Jean-Tay Porter incident. And they're standing there and they're saying, no entry. What is that player, what is that citizen supposed to do at that point? All right, now I don't know where to begin on this one, but you know what, let's stick with the operator
side of this since that's where they started. I will say I was a little, I expected as soon as people started introducing themselves and you saw that nobody was from the trading room and it was compliance and general counsels for people that we weren't gonna get much. And I'll be honest, I thought they offered up more than I anticipated they would. Yes, I would agree with that. In particular, there was a very, very good explanation towards the beginning
of the discussion. I think he was BetMGM's deputy general counsel. Jeremy Coleman. Yes, he gave a really good overview of the instances when BetMGM and by and large, all of the other operators would. decide to limit players. And then, yeah, considering that there were no trading team representatives, I thought there was a pretty decent level of detail involved. Yeah, there was one fun moment where they were kind of like, well, what does the trading team do? And they're
like, oh, I can't really speak to that because I'm not on the trading team. And Eileen O'Brien, the commissioner who never lets anything get past her was like, I can't help but notice no one from this group is on this call. I would imagine that if they did have traders on the meeting, there would be a lot of executive sessions that there would be a diverse ensued. There would be a lot of the lawyers just hitting the mute button. Yeah, well, I want to go back
to what you said about Jeremy Coleman. He kind of put it into four different categories typically of what he says BetMGM does when it comes to limiting players. And he said those four categories were essentially bettors that pounced on inaccurate lines. So, you know, for example, what happened on Monday when Christian McCaffrey, who for you, your rose out there that don't follow football, like the best player in football was a late scratch in Monday night football at
bet 365, not bet MGM. there was a line where they did not adjust the backups yardage quickly enough and people jumped on it and put as much money down as humanly possible. So you can do that, but I mean, sports betters that I know always are aware that you're gonna be persona non grata very quickly if you keep kind of trying to take advantage of that, you know, it's one thing to be, It's another to bet the farm on something when somebody hasn't updated quickly
enough. I think that's not the most unreasonable reason to put limits on somebody. So that was one. They take notice in his terms, low liquidity, high volatility markets, essentially those extremely niche player props that if you're putting lots of money on those props, which are not really designed. They don't do a lot of handle. It's more to have those for fun. They'll start flagging your account. They'll notice if I bet $25 every game and then suddenly
out of nowhere, I bet $1,000 on something, they're gonna potentially raise an eyebrow. And then the last one was syndicate betting. For those who don't know, syndicate betting can take a couple of different forms. There can be a group of bettors that pool their knowledge to all. bet using pooled funds in one account, or it can be that, you know, you have you and 10 people on 10 different accounts, use 10 different accounts to get half a million dollars down
on a game because none of you can get half a million dollars down otherwise. So those are kind of the four reasons, and I'm gonna be honest, and maybe I sound like a sports betting chill, these all seem fairly reasonable. to be like, yeah, we're going to limit how much you're allowed to bet when you do this. Yeah. And the operators said bettors are well within their rights to place bets on these lines where they might have an advantage or have more knowledge.
But at the same time, they are more than entitled to limit how much they can bet because at the end of the day, they are commercial entities and they've got to protect their bottom lines. that's their argument and I must say to a certain extent, yeah, I kind of agree with you Jess. Yeah, I mean, if not, illegal is not the right term, but like for sure all of these are kind
of against the syndicate betting in particular. Some states have regulations and laws against this, others like you're clearly violating the terms of service that you agree to and like yes, we all check the box and click the button and don't pay attention to what the terms of
service is. But I'm just the type that like, yeah, if I said that these are the rules that I agree to, even if I didn't read them, if you tell me I'm breaking the rules, then I'm not gonna be that mad or upset when you tell me I'm not allowed to do that anymore and I'm being punished. So before we get to the con side, I want to go into one last thing that happened on the operator side of things, which was the discussion around court siding. Is
this a term you heard for the first time yesterday? No, this is something that I've been aware of. Yeah. I'm somewhat familiar with it. For those who are not familiar, courtsiding is showing up at the athletic event. And again, there's a difference. People going to the Super Bowl might make a better two while playing or while watching the Super Bowl inside the stadium
because they're enjoying the fun of it. The court-citing practice that they're talking about is someone deliberately, like, going to the game with the intent of betting as much as they possibly can with frequency on the outcome of events because with the latency of TV feeds and official data feeds, the sports book is a couple seconds behind. So you can get off
bets before the feed gets them. Yeah, and there's been instances of people going to these events, taking advantage of that and being on the phone to people in other places where they can put bets on at mass. Yeah, because you can bet from within the stadium, but one of the things I'm sure they would flag is geolocating you inside of the stadium. But if you're on the phone with someone, you can kind of circumvent that with relatively minimal technology. The court-siding
thing came up a lot. And to me, what was the most fascinating part of this entire thing, which actually wasn't even about limiting at all, was when Eileen O'Brien was asking about this practice, she basically said, you know, I'm not I'm not going to paraphrase her. I'm going to let her quote. I'm going to quote her directly. As a regulator, one of the concerns I have from a consumer experience and protection point is that I would rather you fix it on
your technical end rather than cut off a customer experience. I'll be blunt. What I hear as a regulator is that maybe you shouldn't be offering the product if the technology is like that and fluctuating so much. So it sure sounds like she thinks operators should not be offering in-game betting, period. from what she was saying as well. It's fascinating and it's something that O'Brien has mentioned in the past. I think she was saying that in the whole building out the regs process back
in 2023, the end of 2022, this is something that she sort of brought up at that time. But yeah, to completely ban or stop in play betting from being a thing. think you're going to get much buying from the operators on that one considering how much it's boomed over the last five years or so. No, and all five, well four now, I think all of these commissioners are very sharp and very inquisitive, but I will say I think with her on this particular issue, there's kind
of a fundamental lack of understanding that there is no solution for this. Like, I mean, I guess the solution would be that you geofence out the stadium or the arena. But again, you get on your phone and you tell somebody. Television delays things by a few seconds for, like the FCC mandates this. So you have the fact that like, there will never be a direct overlap of what someone is seeing in person and what someone is seeing on television. And the vast
majority of people are gonna watch this on television. So you have to kind of cater to that side of things. Ken Fuchs of Caesars Digital also pointed out like, states like yours mandate that we have to use official data feeds. So like, you can't get mad at us for using a feed that's delayed a few seconds when you mandate that if we want to offer this product, we have to
use this. So I don't know if she will maybe change her tune once she hears more about it, but there is a very cynical voice in my head that's like, betters, you know, be careful what you wish for because you get this meeting and a potential granted long shot is that you get in game betting banned in the state like good job. I hope you're happy. So I don't think that was their intent at all though. So let's talk a bit about the other side. They took
a break. They came back with people from it was an interesting group. It was like a couple of And then Richard Shoots, who's a consultant that works with, um, what is American betters voice? I keep calling it pro betters voice, but that's not right. American betters voice, Joe Brad in a prime sports book. And I think that's about it. Right. Am I spacing on anybody else? Um, no, I think that was, that was it. That's, that's the crew of this second group.
What was there a person or an argument that kind of stood out to you amongst the rest? Well, first of all, I was shocked and outraged that you weren't called up to the panel, Jess. I thought you would have... I had to cover the bingo card I made. I, by the way, if you don't follow me on Twitter, to keep this entertaining, made myself a bingo card of things to check off as the meeting was going on. I did not make a bingo, unfortunately. That's it. It's a crying
shame. And I thought it was... I thought actually the argument that Joe Brennan brought forward was interesting that where are these players going to go and just that sort of need for a bit of transparency and the industry is sort of always talking about if we increase regulations or prohibit what sort of operators can do then this is a threat of the black market. But yeah.
I think that sort of argument was quite interesting. I don't know if there's anything that you particularly picked up on Jess that you thought was particularly jarring with what the operators were saying. Yeah, to quickly respond to the... I think people really resonated with the clip that we played of Joe and I hear that argument to be devil's advocate and I did this on Twitter to some extent and got reamed for it. So why not just open this wound again? I've said this many
times, nobody owes you the right to make a living as a professional sports butter. That's not what this industry is about. That's not what the intent of the industry is. If you can, more power to you. However, I think Joe mentioned a couple of times, that aspiring pros are getting limited for RG reasons. It's not. And the debate of the sincerity of the RG concerns is an absolutely fair point. But I don't really care if they're going to be pro-betters or not. I don't think
that should be factored into regulations. And I agree that it is frustrating that people that enjoy this and are successful at it have limited options about where they can go. That certainly raises an eyebrow and makes me concerned. But I live in a state where you are not legally really allowed to play poker in this state. I guess sweepstakes is the closest thing to like a legal entity. I don't. I drive across the river and I'm very lucky I can just drive
across the river. But like I have a lot of poker friends that are like, well, I have to play on offshore sites because my state won't legalize this. And I'm just like. I hear you, I feel you, but you're working with an illegal operator. And that's, I just, my sympathy is not there, the way it is for some other people. That like, I hear your frustration, I get where it's coming from. I don't think it justifies, you know, paying, hiring people
to borrow their accounts and circumventing the system. Like, I don't think that, supplants the fact that you're breaking the rules. No, and I think we've got to sort of point out as well that maybe not a vested interest, but when Brennan speaks, he speaks as a representative of Prime Sportsbook, which does sort of do a lot of work with Sharp Betters and that's their
sort of target market. So maybe speaking for his sort of player base there. I think it's great that Prime and Sport Trade and some of these others exist and want to cater to that market, I think it's fantastic. I just don't know, Joe spoke about, we have to keep these, they keep these huge number of markets open and Maynard kind of questioned, why do you have so many markets if you can't keep on top of them? Because the appetite is for same game
parlays. And so you need like a wide range of markets to help make those bets happen. And, you know, Joe's like, we don't offer that many markets. And again, if you don't want to, that's great. And I understand there's some exposure to offer in all those markets. I don't think for the average better, the resolution of operators having to shut down hundreds of markets because
they're not allowed to limit people is what most betters want. No. And this is something the operators were saying as well, is that if we, if we don't have the limits on the, those who were more advantaged, then we have to impose limits on those recreational bettors. And that's not what we want to do because otherwise, again, we have to pull the markets. And as these businesses are primarily targeting recreational players, that's of course not what they want to do.
It's all about providing entertainment during sports. So yeah, it's a really, really interesting debate, one that's really going to rumble on in Massachusetts, I think, because... The commission said that this is only the beginning of the conversation. It's going to continue. Yeah, we're running out of time, but quickly, next steps on this. I think there will be conversations about this, potentially more conversations. Really, in order to actually take action, they
would need to draft some sort of regulation. Based on the temperature of the meeting, I would say the regulation that seems to have the most likelihood of getting drafted and moving forward is some sort of- process where betters are notified your account is being limited for X amount of time or on X amount of markets for XYZ reason because the regulators
seem to really hone in on that. Operators were like, I mean, they usually know. But then the betters that spoke on the second half were like, I don't really know when I'm being limited. I don't bet that much. I would like to have that opportunity to understand what happened. So to me, that's probably the most likely end result of this is, okay, we have to notify you why you're being limited. I think we're a long way off from some sort of wide sweeping
regulation that you're just not allowed to do this. Call me cynical. No, absolutely agreed. All right. Well, we're not going to go much longer because we don't want to turn into an MGC meeting, but you can read more about the meeting itself on SBC Americas, we've got the recap. We'll put the link to the full meeting in the description below, and be sure to just keep checking out all of the other sites in the SBC network for the latest and greatest news from around the online gambling space.