#415 - Identity Management Day 2026 with Jeff Reich

Um, I don't know how it equates to the the kind of the work that you do with the editing and all the social media, but I will tell you it it's

you know, today we're gonna talk about identity management day in a in a minute here, but like stuff like that is is cool and it brings the community together. So I enjoy it. And you know, let us say today's April first, so I'm on the lookout for any uh hij jinx that might be going on. Uh we have a April first episode that was released earlier today.

Uh, by the time people hear this one, which I think will be April thirteenth, if I m if I recall, uh we'll be a couple weeks past that. So I'm hopefully people will have appreciated it and un in you know, not fallen for any hijinks, but I'm I have not seen too many, but I've also n not been like on the news yet, especially like the tech sphere, to see like what things people have put out today for April first. Yeah.

Between ID Pro being the official podcast of ID Pro, Cooping or Cole with having us and you know, kind of hosting us and really taking good care of us in terms of getting ready for EIC uh as well as the Cybersecurity Alliance. getting ready for Ideniverse and what we're gonna be doing at Identiverse and I think those details are going to unfold, but um we're gonna, you know, make sure that we have a good presence and I'm of course we'll do a game show.

Uh and then our guest today, the IDSA, has been a partner with us for It's had to be more than five years, right? We've had our guests on five times t as of today. And then we had Julie. I think at one point Julie was the all time, you know most frequent guests, and I think that exceeded five. I mean, obviously the podcast hasn't been around for ten years, but we definitely have gotten a lot of support from the IDSA as well.

Uh we're gonna talk with Jeff Rich in a second. Uh I wanna go back to the clouds, uh to to the EIC uh conference because we have discount codes for that. You'll find them on our website, our website. I can't talk. What's going on here? Uh we've got the Identiverse conference, which is a Cyber Risk Alliance. Shout out to Shirley. She's awesome to work with over on that side. Uh we actually have an improved discount. So it is now up to 30% off.

Um, early bird I think might still be available by the time people listen to this, you know, your early bird chances may or may not have different levels. But uh we do have a thirty percent discount now on Identiverse. So definitely hope to see people there.

Like Jim mentioned, we'll be doing, you know, some sort of game show type thing uh as we seem to be uh prone to do, as well as recording episodes live from the expo hall floor and you know taking in the the sights and sounds of Vegas, which I know everyone just loves. Putting myself. Yeah. I do love it. I'm not saying that tongue in cheek. I love it, but I know that that's maybe polarizing.

It's his fifth time on the show with us. So Jim, you owe him a jacket as well. We have to start printing jackets pretty soon because we have a lot of folks.

Fun to hang around with. Let's start with that. But you really provide a a good service, a great service with the podcast that focuses on everything that's going around identity. It's everything around you because you're at the center, right? Um great name too. That was a smart choice. And you do it in a real supportive way, so everyone wants to find a way to pay you back. So don't underestimate why that happens. It happens for a reason.

Yeah, we try not to take ourselves seriously too much. You know, obviously identity's a serious conversation, but yeah, we like to have fun and try to be approachable because I think there's plenty of places to go to like technical information and like, you know, read a spec, for example. But a lot of identity happens outside of specs. And so we try to be as well rounded as possible, even even sometimes straying into like information security at large because

some of that stuff also affects how we do identity. And so yeah, I appreciate that. It's we like I said, this is a great community. It it's fun to engage with. I would encourage anybody who sees any of us at conferences or On the street or at the airport, you know, come up, say hello. Um, we're always happy to meet folks uh, you know, that are that are out there and and learn from them.

And and we follow the sun basically, th which is why it's a twenty one hour event. It's twenty one hours of identity goodness is a term that we use. And I had representatives from each of the three co chairs, uh Identity XP in Melbourne, Australia, O Omade in De in Copenhagen, Denmark, and Savient here on the west coast in in the US.

the three co chairs for the three regions. And we talked about what makes a good conference and what to look for in each one and and I'd I'd like to we'll have an opportunity to talk about what some of the highlights coming out of each region I think this year.

And then I asked at the end, I got them all together and I said, So what's the one thing we really need to focus on maybe for the next five years that's a most important component of of identity and making it work going forward? And all three had a slightly different version of saying people. Even though AI and non-human identities and agentic identity is there, you know, I was at uh the RSA conference uh last week or a couple weeks ago when you're seeing this.

And I challenged people to find a booth that didn't have AI on the banner or agentic on the on the banner and no one could find one. So i we're there. It this is where we are now. That's good. We have to we recognize that. Even with all that, everyone that knows how to make it work is the most important part of what we need to do going forward is people. So and you helped make that really. I'm I'm not gonna try to you know butter you up anymore, but that really is the key.

Maybe just to give us like a quick thirty second on kind of what it is and and why you put on this thing.

that happens now, whether it's from a machine or not, has an identity associated with it. So we either have research papers, working groups, um educational webinars on how we're going to deal with this. And m about ninety percent of what we do is available free to the public.

because there were people interested and they said, Hey, can we have an identity management day two? And the answer really should have been, No, we don't need multiple ones. We need one huge one. So that's what we're left with. So identity XP in Melbourne, Australia approaches first and said, We want to do this with you.

So um what you're gonna be seeing there and they by the way ha have a hybrid event. They're the only hybrid component of what we're doing. They have an in-person event in Melbourne where they have speakers and some sponsors. And we stream all of that as part of the online twenty-one hour online event. Um so some of the speakers you're gonna get there are from uh and Australia ends up being a d a different animal for a whole bunch of reasons. You know, they're a large area.

They're not necessarily densely populated. And as a result, when there's an identity issue there, it affects almost everyone. You know, the it scale has a different meaning there. Scale hits everyone pretty quickly. So they take a slightly different approach. It's a good, healthy approach.

to what they do. But they work a lot a lot of the vendors work more closely with each other there, I think, than I seen in other regions. Although it does happen everywhere else too, because of that. And there is a certain amount of geographical isolation that's there too. I mean, certainly the internet makes everyone available, but there's a component to you're in Australia or you're in the rest of the world.

So, um I I like the approach they take and what you're gonna see coming out of that I think really focuses on what some of the regulations are gonna be there and you're also gonna talk a bit about the rest of Asia as well. what the impact of issues are and what the most recent breaches are. They um

specifically still talk about what's the latest breach we've had. If you compare that to the Americas, for instance, it that's not as big a deal for us anymore. And it's sad because it's it's just accepted. Yeah, which one happened today? Um but they're they're a little more rare, but they have a larger impact. So I think you're gonna see that focus there, along with a lot of nice young people working their way up into the industry. And I'm gonna talk even more about that in just a minute.

So that's what we have going on in Oceania Asia. As we move to AMEA with Omada um hosting that um out of Copenhagen, I really love the fact uh by the way, on that webinar they talked about, we had someone from each of the three regions. We had four unique dialects on that webinar. And that made me giddy. I'm I haven't quite figured out why, but it made me giddy like we have

with those other three, that is gonna be a powerhouse panel when you think about th those four individuals.

presentation or online things. And then we moved to the Americas and we have some great speakers here as well. W without question. Um some of we have um Uh Enrique Teshera i is going to be there. A another one of those big names that if you've been doing this, you know you know who they are. We have other great speakers. There's one I'm gonna point out in particular though.

We have an eleventh grader that's gonna speak. This is the first time we dipped out into another age group, really. Although I guess you could say with me starting, anyone else is a is a different age group that's in this industry. But um we were approached um by an eleventh grader who wrote a paper on cybersecurity and neuroscience and how one really feeds the other.

And we read it and you know, so I've I've I was director of um of r operations for a research center at University of Texas San Antonio for a while and and got engaged with, you know, students and postdocs and, you know, b um Dealing with this, I judge science fairs. It's one of my favorite hobbies. And I saw this paper and said, Wow, this is It makes me feel good. I hadn't even met her yet, because wow, assuming we leave enough of the earth to to survive, it's gonna be in good hands.

Because there there are people like this that are in in eleventh grade and and she didn't just start now that are not only brilliant but can apply it and say, here's what the real world means. as opposed to either I did research or I used, you know, Chat GPT to write a paper, you know, or whatever else is going on right now, I know that we're there are people that are capable of

of uh continuing the earth in a really good way. So I'm uh to me, as much as all the other speakers are gonna be fantastic, that's the highlight I'm looking for.

Several of the people that they've chosen and they've played a role in these conferences and super bright people, I guess. I've kinda come away with the same um optimistic perspective that you just mentioned, Jeff.

Uh, so that's for sure. Hey, one thing that we talked about, you know, in preparing for the show is that you have the theme for this year. And can you talk us to us a little bit about that theme?

And allow me to expound on that a bit. If you think about it, especially with everything we've already talked about so far today. you can see how it makes sense because identity has been human based since the the dawn of m of humans. Right. And that's good. Carbon based identity, pretty easy to understand whether you have to go down to DNA or not. You still know what it means.

But now there's you and me, which means now we have interaction between identities, which brings up themes like authentication and authorization. How do I know that you are Jeff and Jim, other than the fact that I know the two of you and I'm still convinced AI is not yet good enough to to replicate both of you at once. There aren't enough computers to do that effectively. So um

authentication, validation of who someone is, that's a big challenge now. Um it's bigger than before because of scale in the internet. You know Me dealing with someone in Copenhagen, authentication wasn't an issue a long time ago because I could use a third party source, a lot of time elapsed between the beginning and the end of the transaction. Now they're instantaneous.

So um it it is a big deal. And then the machines come in because of what's going now with a gentic identity and non human identities and machine identities, and I actually treat all three slightly differently, even though they're all closely related. It's an identity that may or may not be associated with a person. It may be directly associated with the person.

And it may pretend to be associated with a person but really isn't. I I'll use Deep Fake as an example there that we we've already referred to once. I happened to um I was at a the Deepfake summit uh um about a month ago in Houston. And a lot of expert getting together and talking about deep fakes and how do we deal with this problem? Is it a problem? Have we solved it? What's gonna happen next? And even with all the best minds around this

When the question was asked, what are we going to do from here? Most people still stared into the group and like, I really don't know yet. So um so tie all that together, we need to find identities, not only our own, but what every identity we deal with. and find a way to get a level of trust and authentication with it so we can do things that we have confidence in.

And I I don't uh if you I don't know if you heard this, I'm gonna paraphrase it. Recently um Fed Chair uh Powell in the US uh at his con at a press conference, which would now would be a few weeks ago. um made a statement about confidence, consumer confidence. And the definition he used, and I like I'm paraphrasing, so don't I'm not quoting him, but confidence is a feeling you get right before reality hits. Um and uh I think that works.

Every single client that I'm talking to is asking me about AI and permissions and access and how are we going to secure these things. You know, just from a valid use perspective, let alone when we start thinking about things like deep fakes and, you know, nefarious ways to get. identity into a a a situation that we don't want it to be in. I'm curious, like are you where do you fall right now from a um uh optimist, pessimist, somewhere in the middle? Like, how do you currently feel?

about the way AI is impacting identity.

And we have two working groups, one that's uh um AI and identity, pretty straightforward one would think, and we have another one that's machine and agentic identities, which um on its own seems pretty straightforward as well. We have two groups working on a framework, what they want to publish and what it's going to mean.

And we discovered they aren't uh first of all, they're not silos, but they're not even close to being silos. There is a lot of overlap. We're not merging the groups. There is enough work to do uniquely, um, create deliverables out of each. But AI ends up being across the board. So for an example, our should we focus on AI for IAM? Or should we focus on IAM for AI? There's one simple question that I can drop with those groups. That's six months work.

That's why it's going to be a six month effort. And we need to be at the higher framework level rather than at the tool level. And it's something that as much as most of our members are identity vendors and I love'em, um Most of them focus on bec because they have a business to run, getting a a product out that can do that.

I look at most of what's out there today as bridge solutions for that reason. We're we're nowhere done. We're just really entered. As much as we think we're fully into AI and it's happening every day, we're still just dipping maybe our first two toes in it. We are not into it yet. So I I think what we haven't done a good job of is really take a step back and say, what is the overall architecture and structure and framework without having to get technical about it?

How do we want to make it work for ourselves? And that ends up resulting in many cases in guardrails. And I would offer, and you may find this, Jeff, in in your consulting, that when I Talk to any organization about what do your guardrails look like for your AI? Those are the people that say, How do I manage this? Well, there's the beginning of your answer without guardrails and doesn't have to be technical guardrails, but just saying, here's what I want AI to be able to do.

And you by definition, I don't ever want it to do anything else, or I want to do these three things and explore in this area, which can be very advantageous. When you set that up as your ground rules, then you have to find those tools. and implementations that can help you accomplish that. When you can't do that

What you're doing is saying, well, I'm just gonna use AI because I'm gonna save money, because it's faster, cause it's cool. All those reasons are there, but it will grow teeth, get right behind you, and bite you.

links so quickly. I'm curious if you've heard anything. Like, are there themes that you're picking up from the conversations you're having with either vendors or other members of IDS Alliance or even working groups and things like that to say, hey, We we know we we don't have the full answer yet, but you mentioned guardrails as right, as an example. Like other other things like that that are starting to sort of surface maybe that might be options in how we secure identities like that.

Well, standing privilege to me is beginning to crumble because the processes that are gonna be used that need that authority can be ephemeral. You could have a Kubernetes container that's gonna perform something that needs full admin authority and it only lasts one and a half seconds.

And then it's gone. It it as in it just no longer exists. That all the resources have been allocated to something else and it's now maybe in history or maybe not. Did you log it? Do you have any act do you have any control over what it was going to do and do you have any observability of what it did?

So I'd say that's the first principle that I'm seeing coming out of this is what do you do with standing privilege? That leads to my to the second observation, and this one's a personal one, not what I'm getting from members. I believe PAM or Privileged Access Management as we have been using it is obsolete. It may not feel that way everywhere yet, but the reason I feel that way is everyone and everything is now privileged, even if it's for a very narrow focus.

Typically a privileged account was, you know, you had sysadmin, you could do anything to er for every first of all, you can't even get your arms around everything right now and that environment is fluid. You know, uh the the containers is an example. It changes all the time. So privileged access now has to mean who can do the things that can really cause damage. That's how I define privilege.

That becomes virtually everyone. So I'm not saying don't manage privilege um access. I'm saying treat everyone as if they have privilege and manage the access out. So that's a personal observation of mine. Jeff, it looks like you have something to say about that.

to do that is just not going to happen because companies are not built, they're not automated enough from an identity infrastructure standpoint and from a business. engagement and logic standpoint to say, okay, well, what do you mean I won't have the access? Well, trust me, you're going to have it because we're going to grant it automatically because we've invested in all these tools to make that automation happen.

A lot of companies haven't. They are still, you know, they may not have invested in an IG uh identity governance tool, right? Where they're still doing like manual joiner, mover, weer functions. Or maybe they did, but they only took it to like Active Directory and that's it. They haven't connected like the 500 other applications that they need. And so while I I like the idea of it, I just don't know if it's a realistic destination for most organizations.

I'm a fan. You should be trying to get there. I just don't know if you can if it if it's realistic as a goal for most people when it comes to that.

I just saw this video the other day. Um I don't know if you guys remember the the cheating scandal on a website called Ultimate Bet. So this is like in the early two thousands. they had for the system administrators something called God Mode. And the God Mode was like you could sit at a table and see the cards that everybody had. Well one of the founders of this website is betting

had access to the God mode application. Now you start thinking like, okay, well I can think of fifteen different ways that we could have put the stop to that, right? We could have been logging how often the account was used. we could have done check in check out a password for it, uh which is like traditional privileged access management type things. Um So I was just thinking like, all right, well, if you can't get to zero standing uh

I I kinda have the overall philosophy. Don't let perfection get in the way of getting better. And I kind of feel like at least I I agree with you, the journey oughta be towards zero standing privileges. But I think kind of traditional Pam gets you better than you are today and s just staying a step ahead of Everyone else is usually like, you know, if you look at any of these safari videos in Africa, right? It's the lions always go after the slowest buffalo. Don't be the slowest buffalo.

So that's all I was thinking as you were talking about this thing.

And about my second year in, I remember saying, We need to kill passwords. I think passwords are finally dead. I've been hearing that for over forty years. a and it has been a goal. It's been aspirational. we are actually starting to get there. It may still be an asymptotic approach. I we may be we maybe just be cutting the distance between us and no password by half, but there's always still another half we can we could cut.

But the only way we're getting there now is through the persistence of the vision that passwords alone don't give you good security. And and we've all known that, but we never had a better solution now between pass keys and tokens. and um, you know, hardware keys and server to server authentication and other tools that we have, we can start saying you don't necessarily need to know a password.

And that's a good thing. You know, the next thing we need to get rid of maybe are SMS authentications. But that's that's another maybe another another podcast, another show. Um so by staying aspirational on Killing the password, I think we can be aspirational on killing standing privilege, and I think we'll reach it faster than the journey it took us to get rid of passwords. And we're not done with it yet.

But I think we are and actually I don't think they're ever gonna completely go away, but I think they'll become negligible.

They just nobody likes them, right? Because they're they're not a great solution. It's just what we have. And so, okay, great. We've got this thing called pass key. Let's get it start getting it rolled out. You know, FIDO Alliance has done a great job of like pulling, you know, major industry players together to get a standard in place and get adoption capability in place. That took years to get it done.

And it's still, you know, further out for a lot of other folks that just are now starting to think about it because they've been working on, you know, let's call it uh, you know, user life cycle things for the last decade because that's what they were told.

a decade ago they need to start working on. And so it it will never move as quickly as any of us want it to. And that's why I have to I I I tend to be more conservative when it comes to timelines. It's like, okay, is this the year the password dies?

Yeah, but we've been saying that, like, you know, like you said, Jeff, for like the last ten years, it seems like, right? And every year's like, Okay, this is a year that's gonna finally die. No, it's not. Pass is gonna be around for a while because we're gonna there's gonna be people who can't use pass keys, there's gonna be other authentication methods, whatever. But we are making progress. And sometimes that progress gets lost.

when we look at it from like the day-to-day view. So if you look at it every year, every two years, every three years, like, are we better at MFA than we were five years ago? Heck yeah, because we had to be because of COVID. COVID pushed a lot of companies into the MFA world because they had to be secure because all their workers were all of a suddenly doing remotely, you know, remote work.

there wasn't that, you know, punch in the face that was like, Hey, you've got to get out there and do this right now. Except for that. And so there will be other triggering events like that that I feel like will drive adoption. And, you know, maybe it's AI. We're seeing a lot of effort put into this to say, okay, how are we going to secure these things? Because we've also been designing uh identity systems and identity, you know, programs around human scale.

And that means speed of humans. AI doesn't work at human speed, right? So what it used to be is like days, weeks, months, years, now it needs to be nanoseconds, milliseconds, seconds is like the greatest, you know, scale you're doing things. So I think there's I think there is this.

idea of like well there's so many shiny things. What do I grab onto? Like is it I've been hearing zero stand privileges now for a while. I'll do that. And then now someone tells me I have to do this other thing. So I you know, it's almost like I'm a kid in a candy store and I can't pick which one yeah I want to go after.

And maybe that's all it's gonna take, but we will never make the progress unless we do that push. So everything we do I think needs to at least be leaning that way. Now to your question about a small organization that starting off they're gonna be a software shop, how do I c India's not gonna be able to get all all of this. They can't be that leading edge on everything because they're not an identity shop. It's not what they do.

So rather than buying eight different pieces of software, they're gonna conflict with each other and not give them the result they really need. What they need to do and this goes back to the fundamentals of, you know, I was a programmer. Before you were a developer, you were called a programmer. Um, I was a programmer a long time ago.

And what we had to do at the very beginning was completely do, before you even do pseudocode, something else that's a foreign word now, you had to come up with a flow of what needed to happen. And it had to include what needs to be included in that and what things need to be excluded. And that may be the world needs to be excluded except for what I'm working on.

We don't do that very well anymore. And um faster computers and AI have gotten us there. And I don't want us to go back. I'm not that, oh, back in the day we did it better. No, no, no. We didn't. Because I used to have when I when I wrote code, I had one it was on cards, okay? And I had one test run a week. And if I had a J C L error that just caused it to fail at the beginning, I had to wait another week before I could test the program again.

Can you imagine a developer having to deal with that today? No, that would be stupid. You can you can run it and then run again and you find a new error and you keep finding new errors. That's great. But we are still skipping the fundamental. How do we structure it? What does it need to do? What's the regression testing? And boy, we really got off. The track from identity here, didn't we? Mm-hmm.

continuous authentication, that are doing shared signals framework, that are doing zero standing privileges, right? They're the ones who have budget. We also work with clients where you talk to them and you find out Oh my god, they have the passwords in an Excel spreadsheet. But the Excel spreadsheet is is password protected. It's like oh my good lord.

It depends on the the where the client is, you know, the the I keep bringing it up and I I wish I knew who to attribute it to, but he talked about the the information security poverty line and there are organizations that are below the poverty line. And I see organizations like that and I've worked with some in the past and essentially like if Microsoft offers it as part of Intra, as part of their intra license, it's like now we have something we can implement, we'll do that.

Uh and I see other organizations who are, you know, like, Hey, we'll take a chance on some of this stuff because this might be the next big thing. And not only that, but we have a real world use case now that can't wait. And we're going to, you know, take a risk that this company might not be around in the year.

Like zero standard privilege is actually a great example of this. It's like, okay, the only way to get zero standing privilege is through automation. full blown comprehensive automation across all of your systems and it's rock solid and it works all the time.

If you can't if you're not doing that today, good luck with standing privilege. I mean zero standing privilege. Like that's just not going to work for you. And so that's kind of like where I I see a lot of organizations struggle. It's like, yeah, like these are all great concepts. You should be moving towards that. But get the basics done first.

And then start to think about how you're going to extend past that. Because if you get the basics done, chances are you're going to be pretty compliant with whatever you need to be client with, as long as you're doing the basics.

Quantum fears are s making people start worrying about whether or not Bitcoin is gonna be broken at some point, right? Is SHA two hundred fifty six? We know it's not going to You know, be the the king of the hill forever, right? Um and we're gonna need something quantum what, resistant or quantum proof?

If you have a weapon and your opponent has the same weapon, you're going to want one that's a little better. And they'll want one that's a little better than yours. So that's really what's happening here, although it doesn't have to be based in evil, although in some cases it is. So you I go back to I think at one point, Jim, you and I may have talked about this. I remember when Triple Des

was the encryption standard that came out and around I think it was part of the Orange Book series uh the color rainbow series. It was the Orange Book. And triple Dez was how you needed a Secure Sing. It was the most secure thing we had. And before the ink was dry it was broken. So um and and now we have better computers to break to break it. Once quantum is truly focused on encryption in particular, and I'll talk about other components, I think.

Because uh any cryptocurrency is based on encryption. The ledger has to have faith, has to demonstrate faith that there is a unique transaction entry in there. It's it's the only one there and it was never compromised. That's done through a form of encryption. Quantum computers when you have enough computing power, cooling, and money to make it work.

We'll break that. It it it's it's software. It will break it. So you can count on that. I'm not certain it'll be in my lifetime, it may be. It may it's m more likely gonna be in yours.

Essentially, inverse um action happens to the other. When you have a quantum entanglement, the act of simply viewing it. Observing it breaks that entanglement because both sides now change. Now that's a it's a big concept that more and more people are gonna start seeing soon because quantum entanglement I think is gonna provide the next big level of security for us.

And it's gonna come from quantum computing. But the downside of quantum computing is everything you're counting on today will become somewhat paper thin once quantum computing becomes a bit more democratized and available.

I don't even know if that's true. I don't really understand it well enough to say okay that's a realistic concern or not. Jeff, do you have any tips? Like what should people be doing right now? Is it just keeping an ear on the news and having the curiosity to kind of figure out what Is out there or or what do you tell people? I when people ask you, and I'm asking you right now, what do you advise?

Um y you know, a digital wallet could now contain uh a a driver's license in many states in the US. A passport in the EU is gonna be in a digital wallet. That's all a form of crypto right now and encryption that we're depending on for our for our identities. They're the things I often recommend are first of all, make sure you have a backup of what you do. Different for a cryptocurrency. You can't necessarily back that up.

Um there are ways to get it done. But um when you're not actually making a transaction, get it on something removable and get it in a lead line safe. That may sound a bit overreactive, but I have one in my house. And it's um I feel very comfortable that I have availability of the things that are important. Should there be enough fire at the home or something else happened? And it's in a location that's not easily found. I'm not even gonna come close to saying right now where where it is. So

Um it would take a certain amount of torture for that to happen. But the advice I give is back up what you can, first of all, and to your point, see what's going on in the world. Watch the news stories about where a a compromise occurred. And find out why. Right now many of those compromises occur through social engineering rather than hacking per se. That's where our biggest exposure is. Hey, we just got back to people again, didn't we?

Because social engineering focuses entirely on how could I convince you that you need to give me something? Thank you very much. Now I'm gonna compromise whatever it is you had or whatever you it is you control for someone else. So the situational awareness. Be aware what's going on. Whenever you're asked for any information, don't believe it.

It doesn't matter who it d maybe your your spouse or partner, there's a certain level of trust that probably needs to be there. But beyond that, when you're asked for something, don't believe it, find a way to validate it.

It may seem like extra work. It it won't seem like extra work when you do it and someone else didn't and they lost whatever it is they had to value. So back up what you have, be aware of what's going on. And where you can put in a control, do that. If you can add another factor of authentication when you authent when you log into something. do it. I I'm I know it may seem like a pain. And people don't like brushing their teeth either, but it's better than having your teeth pulled out, right?

Brush your teeth. Find a way to do another method of authentication, especially for the things that are of value. Not everything. If you're gonna go look at sports scores, you don't need multiple ways to authenticate yourself. But if you're gonna look at your polymarket account where you're betting on those sports scores, then you might wanna have a couple different methods of making sure yet it's you that's getting in and no one else. How's that for for a current example?

Let's start to wrap things up and take it to the identity management day as like a finale. And we asked this question last week, but we're gonna do it again because we've got you here. Let's talk about theme songs for identity management day.

That's the first thing I'm saying. Well it sounds like finding Nemo. Well then we need to have a tagline after it. But finding Nemo, I think, is gonna be the first one that that fits into there. Um go ahead and judge all you want. I I'm not necessarily a finding Nemo fan, but it kind of fits. Um I think any song by the searchers

Because you're searching for you, me and the machines. And th that can actually title almost any song from the fifties or sixties. I'm old, what can I say? Um, but any song by the searchers certainly fits in with the theme. And uh what's a good one that's dealing with a machine? I I mean, uh you could go rage against the machine. Tom Morrell, yeah, why why not, right?

And, you know, from an identity standpoint, trying to, you know, juggle all that and then Daft Punk. Harder, best or harder, better, faster, stronger, something along those lines where, you know, again, I'm thinking more of like a playful nature of What identity management day might look like.

the day before we do it, we still don't know what we're going to do, but we are doing something. So Um, you'll have to tune in and see what our episode uh is for Identity Management Day. And thanks to Jeff for inviting us to do that. So thank you so much for that.

whether you're going to EIC or Ideniverse or conferences that are coming up later this year that we'll have Tittop codes for as well. So uh like, subscribe, do all that fun stuff, and we'll leave it there. Thanks everyone for watching and or listening. And we'll talk with you all in the next one.