This is identity at the center. Welcome to the Identity at the Center podcast. I'm Jeff, and that's Jim. Hey, Jim. Hey. Jeff, how are you? Oh, not space. Yeah. We're having a good time here at Identity versus DC. First time this event. Yeah. And we're here in the actual halls. It's awesome. Yeah. I mean, it's a great energy level. I love the fact that it's like a manageable size. I pretty much talked to
everybody. It stopped it just about every booth and everyone's super friendly and willing to engage. Yeah, it's been super cool. Had a lot of more listeners than I thought here, which is great. Coming up and saying hello. Yeah, so shout out to the Polarian guys. I know that they listen. So fun conversations that identity beer last night. Yeah, and we've been kind of sagent. Did majority rule, majority rules, you get that? It seems so memorable. Gal. We're ready.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a lot of final. They had, you know, a room full of identity, people talking and building on their phones and things like that. So if you attend conferences and we're there and we're part of the agenda, chances are you might see, you know, that game show in the future, that kind of thing. So yeah, that's good Taps. And we had audience member Deshawn 1 and they didn't need the center sticker that was the. That's the lead price. That was the lead prize.
The the second prize that he also received was a free pass for Identiverse. The the big Identiverse in bank. So lucky. I shouldn't say lucky. I mean, he was like, yeah, he's like an ace. He was, he was picking the right answers. He was playing the game. Shout out to Deshawn, did great. We had a couple, you know, runner ups and people kind of, you know, nipping at his heels, but yeah. That. Was how long? No, you weren't. You were definitely. I never made the board. He did not.
So yes, we are here at Identiverst. This is the one in DC 2025 for dating purposes. Let me go ahead and introduce our guest. His name is John Delmaro. He's the EVP, Executive Vice president of the business of the events business at Cyber Risk Alliance. So welcome for the first time, John. Great. Well, thanks for having me guys. Appreciate it. Yeah, so thanks for being with us. First of all, thanks to the partnership even work with you guys on the team. Shout out to Shirley.
She has awesome shout out for out for the last thing. Feel like a year or so lasted universe meaning for that. So if you have a good time and you know, we have fancy walls, we have now we have a tablecloth. So, you know, we're, we're, we're starting to get into this a little bit. Now you guys been a great partner of ours. You bring a lot of energy, a lot
of fun, right? I think one thing that we'll talk about in a little bit is I think some events and conferences could allure to some boring and sale and you always want to bring some energy, new ideas and some fun and some life to them. So thanks for pitching in and, and and doing what you guys. Do well we appreciate it we'd like to have fun. I I kind of I I kind of follows
like powder programming. It's like OK, right, people are here to learn, you know share ideas and I opened up our session with are you going to learn anything? No, probably not change and I think hopefully people are done but yes, it's it's it's a great opportunity to have conversations with people. So hallway kind of strong care
for sure. But then we've also got obviously the different presentations we heard from a lot of you know, people who are in the industry people like Sean O'dell and Andy Hingle and others. I Omega shameless is across the hall from us here, you know, from right from Fido. So there's a lot of good conversations taking place. I think we'll get lost sometimes and people think like, oh, ideniverse, yes, I heard of
that. And if you haven't heard of Ideniverse, you're only going to arrive because it is the best I am conference series in I would say North America, but that's only part of what Cyber Risk Alliance does. And I know I've done a couple of the things outside of it and honest with you guys, but maybe you just have take a second and tell our audience. Who in what? Is Cyber Risk Alliance and sort of explain some things you work on. Yeah. So Cyber Risk Alliance is about a six year old company.
We are a data analytics, events and media company. So we produce content, newsletters, webinars, virtual events, big piece of our business are live events. So we produce over about 150 different events annually in different size and scale across the portfolio. Obviously Identiverse being one of them being our largest. But we run a number of events that are single day, see so focused regional events for our communities business.
So we run about 45 regional events across the country for security professionals and see so's we have our communities business that we also run about another 15 invite only regionalized events. And then we run for those communities about another 60 to 70 dinners to service those areas and sections of the country. And so within the communities business, we'll do one event, one event per year and then have a dinner each quarter in those
markets. So our goal is to continue to make sure we service the, you know, the cybersecurity platform, the industry and continue to provide them with outlets of information, data, analytics, networking events and you know, providing them a kind of a one stop shop to get all that information to be as successful as they can. John, I've already kind of showed my and I have a great time here. Most of the folks I've talked to
are having a great time. I wanted to know from you kind of your perspective and what you've run into, how is the vibe? How are people kind of welcoming this event? And by the way, I'll also mention, I think a lot of people would love to go to Identiverse in Vegas, but they can't get approval, right? So adding a more East Coast event gives them the opportunity to be here. Kind of like. Sharing this community which I think is awesome. Yeah, so I mean, the vibe here has been great, right?
It's exactly what we we put forward and thought it would be meaning that identiverses, you know, 3-4 thousand people. Las Vegas, you know, major production, lots of content, right. Also, you know, very expensive for people to get to and spend time there. Our goal is to not just pop up the tent once a year, but to have events like this for the community to get more of a regionalized based and opportunity for people to come. So you know, we've got over about 300 people here today.
You know, the exhibit hall has been great, the traffic's been great. The feedback that I've gotten from the content, from the traffic has been has been really good and we're really pleased with the outcome of what we put forward this year. Yeah, the food's great too. That's always like, for me, that's very important. And all the meals have been served here in the Expo hall. It gives people a good opportunity to kind of interact with the exhibitors. I I've seen it with my own eyes.
I've had a lot of people come over and interact with us. Jeff mentioned, Hey, a lot of people are stopping by and say, love the podcast and shout out to all the people that have done that and let us know because so boring to us is to know that it's actually meaningful. To and I'm going to tell you this hotel has been great. Yeah, you know, I mean, it's, I mean, I'm kind of a foodie and enjoy all that stuff and the fact that they have like the Bellagio bakery downstairs and
the coffee's great. And so it's been a from that experience point of view, it's been really pleased with the venue. So I, you know, I'm a foodie too, and there's a Shake Shack on the 1st floor. So yeah, you get bonus points just for having a Shake Shack in your facility. I don't have to go outside like an animal and get food. So yeah.
Yeah, it's kind of cool too. Like, I mean, it's like, I would say it's a movie in Las Vegas, but they do have a casino here and so funnier stuff for people to do. But kind of back to the extra hall. I mean, have you interfaced with any of the exhibitors yet? And what's the feedback that you're getting?
Yeah. I mean, the feedback, I've talked to most of the folks in here, you know, I think the quality of people that are here, I mean, the great thing about what we do is, you know, these aren't sort of, you know, events that people are just looking for swag and stuff, right?
So if you're coming here, you're somebody from the industry looking for solutions, looking for partners and, and one of the thing we pride ourselves on is making sure that we deliver the quantity, even if it's not the quality of thousands of people picking up socks and merch. Like making sure that you've got the right people coming to the event and and having genuine strong conversations. And so, yeah, I think the
quality's been exceptional. And that's feedback that I've gotten is that the quality's been been really strong. Well, No Fear because Jim came walking over and with a pair of socks in his hands. He was very happy when when when that showed up. I. Was going to I was actually going to say, John, don't disrespect the grease socks. None of them to. See those start. People love silos, so I'm not a sock person, but I know that they're very popular.
Jim got his, so we're good. Yeah, I'm nappy. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the sessions and maybe some of the like holiday conversations that maybe you've been part of. What are some of the major themes that you've been hearing or topics maybe that have been coming up from people in the holly here? I mean, you know, obviously this is a a, you know, smaller version of Identiverse, right? So we're not as deep and reached across. So, you know, some of the
conversation. I mean, AI obviously just kind of rules everything right now, right? So you can't go into a session or have a conversation where that's not driving probably a good portion of the conversation. Obviously that's going to be a big focus for us going into next year, even more so than it's been. But I think, you know, I mean, your session was a home run. Everybody loved it, right?
The game show. That was my last question was what do you think of majority rules and why was it awesome? But please go ahead. But you know, having guys like Andy, right, we've been partnered with Andy for years even before we acquired the event from Ping and you know, bringing his expertise, bringing his knowledge to the mainstage last night with his panel was awesome.
You know, having financial institutions like Citigroup or Capital One up there, you know it's important to make sure that we continue to drive kind of the best in breed and these kinds of organizations up to the dais and talking about the industry which is really important. Yeah, you actually mentioned the the game show. You also mentioned AI, Jeff.
It's certainly the question there that I kind of made fun of, like how much AI guess mentioned and I've heard other people talking cheek like Shawn Nadel came on and said I'm on saying AI now. I promise I won't say it again. I kind of feel like we're cheating AI, like we cheated 0 trials for you know? It's like a it's. Not the same ball game though. Yeah, it's a capability slash marketing terminal and it's like you know podcast now has 100%
more AI like I see how you. Look at all the tools that we buy. It's all like AI driven and it saves us so much time. It's a truly game. I think you're trusted game changer. I think you got abused. And now people, at least on the conferences that I've been to lately, they talk about zero. Trust is not like a punchline that you know. Don't want AI to be a punchline. But I think some of that is because the marketing has eased up the gas a little bit, right?
So a couple years ago you go to RSA and identifiers A Gartner. Like any conference, you know vendors are going to vent. And so they want to put whatever the buzzword is. Oh yes, we are your 100%. Zero Trust partner. Right. And really? Only do a part of it. AI is a little bit like that, kind of seeing that with agentic I, agentic AI and agentic
identity. And so I'm starting to see that as like a trend showing up with vendors trying to figure out what is their position in trying to address that heart of it. It's not a bad thing. It's just this is the world that we're in. And everybody's using it, right? You're using it as a consumer. Your kids are using it for their school work or whatever it may be. You know, every marketing team is using that for their creative, you know, creative assets.
They're how they're talking to their customers. And so to me, it feels that it's not just endemic to this, but it touches everybody, you know, whether it's for the technology, for your marketing, for your sales team, building content, building productions, building collateral. I couldn't feel the same way. Like AI agents, or we're talking about, oh, here come these AI agents six months ago, and now it's like I'm building AI agents, Jeff's building AI
agents. And it's like, wow, this tidal wave is moving quicker than anyone I've seen before. For sure. Well, it's very accessible also. So it's the most accessible or technology way that I've seen in a while. Usually the technology is done more like plumbing, but now it has an interface and so you've got a website you can go. Do things to interface. Everyone knows how to use the figures out extremely quickly. Chat to it or talk to it or whatever.
Being Chad, you kind of answered part of a question. I want to go on a sidetrack with you was and that is AI. How is AI like impacting or influencing what you do and like your role and like, you know, putting on events and marketing, right and all that kind of what's wrong with it? Like where does it? Where does it impact you the most? Yeah, so I think the one great thing about live events and why I love it so much and I've been doing this for 30 years, is that AI can't build to this.
It can't, you know, put butts in seeds and can't bring, you know, serve you coffee you can't have a conversation with in the hallway, right. So that's what's really genuine about in person that hey, I just can't do or technology can't do. And that's why this business is so important.
What it does for us is it makes our life so much easier now, right from databasing content, recruiting speakers, building marketing plans, you know, you know, talking to the industry like we're from the industry, which is really important, which is sometimes hard to do when you have marketing managers and, and, and content people that aren't experts in the industry, right? And so, you know, we've got to talk to the industry as the consumers and making sure that
it's relevant. And AI has certainly helped us, I think position ourselves better as experts. And you know, I was working with Chris Tanaka and Andy on building out the some of the sessions and some of the speakers for, for, for next year. And literally, you know, spent 1015 minutes using Google Gemini and putting in like financial services. You know, who are the leaders, who are the speakers in for banks, insurance companies, manufacturing, automotive, CPG?
And in so 3 minutes, you know, there's literally, you know, 100, you know, whether they're endemic speakers or people that we know that you guys know, or people that you may have never heard of working for Boeing or things like that, that, you know, spits out where they've spoken, what they've done, you know, how's it connected to identity and access? And that was like, I'm like, Oh my God, we just identified 100 people that weren't really on our radar that could or could
not be applicable. But that's just cut out. You know, like typically I would call one of you guys and say, Hey, who, who's the latest and greatest? And who are you guys working with and who do you want to hear from? And that just took hours of research and compiled it into a, you know. We'd say, hold on, John, let me check a right, right.
But, but speaking that exact topic right now, you're starting to formulate what the next Identiverse in Las Vegas is going to look like from the gender perspective. What are some of the big themes that you're expecting to touch on? Yeah. So one of the themes that we're working on or the theme is sort of global identity, right? And how it touches basically everyone and everything. And, you know, so I think a lot of the themes will, you know, once again, be consistent,
right? Because we don't want to go away from like the core, you know, where this started, right? But at the same time, you've always got to evolve and grow, right? So, you know, you know, we're going to still vote, you know, we introduced the NHI workshop and Pavilion last year. We're going to work with the NHI management group on, on building that out even more and, and, and making that bigger and more important. On Leila Choda's. Group, right?
I'll be happy to hear. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be happy. That's my guy, Mr. NHI, right? But he's been, he's been a phenomenal partner with us and looking forward to expanding that would like to replicate that some sort with AI, right, just to go back to that. But we've had a workshop on that last year. I think that could be bigger and, and just a little deeper than what we did last year. We're trying to work on like an AI pavilion on the show floor
next year. Continuing on the trends with the, you know, we had the workshops on continuous and personal identity, you know, some something like that from a workshop point of view. Something we're introducing this year for the first time is we're going to have a one-on-one networking platform that's going to enable us to work through an algorithm to connect, you know, interested parties. So we're going to do that on the front end of the event.
We just invested in the technology to help us do that. So we've always had the matchmaking that you can go through the app. This is going to be, you know, very way more organized and the algorithm's really going to bring people together to have meetings and then utilize your time on site. So I assume this is like an opt in? He says like you started describing it. I know it's not this but I just make the joke anyway. It's like a Tinder.
We've always said you want to take yeah, yeah, yeah, the bumbler, the Tinder for, for this business. But you know, you know, these guys spend so much money, you know, we all spend so much money and time. And how do you find a way to like, you know, bring that together in a, in a 1 to 1 concentrated efficient way, right? Because I think like all elements of the show. But you know, I've been in this business for a long time. You know, I've done it.
Some of the other companies I've worked on, peers of mine that are working on other shows outside of cybersecurity are doing it. And it's going to be a big new key driver for our success this year. So talk to me a little bit more about this idea of these one-on-one needs you to have like a, a clear vision, like who are The Who are the two sides of the one-on-one? I make it really be, you know, this industry like I came from financial services for many years, right?
And so the buyer seller relationship was like super clear. You know, I'm a payments processing company. I want to talk to a bank, right? This industry, it's not as you know, it's not the buyer seller exactly right. So, you know, it's it's really for anybody that wants to connect, whatever your interests are, what are you trying to solve for and building out those profiles. And then we're connecting you on
the back end of that, right. So it's really based upon what your interests are, what your needs are and trying to solve those. OK, Right. Yeah. So, you know, if you have a question about, you know, some, you know from me, you need answers from an attorney or things like that about, you know, some standards and things like that, we would try and map that through the algorithm to connect you guys.
And then the way it sets is that we set up like little tables with two seats and on the front end of the conference, when there's nothing else going on, we're going to orchestrate that and execute that on the front end of the event. So during the rest of the event, you can go to the exhibit hall, you can go to the receptions, go to your parties, go to the sessions and all that stuff. So. OK, that sounds pretty cool actually. Yeah, I mean, imagine or, you know, chill out a profile of
some sort, right? And say here's my interests, here's what I would like to talk about. I mean, it's it's it's helpful because I think, you know, no offense to like content like that's great. But a lot of people, the big value are the hallway conversations, right? It is the networking, it's the fellowship, whatever you want to call it. You go for the content, but you have conversations in the
hallway and. Can you organize that a little bit more so you don't just like happened to run into someone, right? So I and somebody to introduce you that were, you know, look, we all start on the outside somewhere and it's like, OK, you're on the outside of the ring. And I think, you know, we've tried to be think better as as a industry, the identity industry of hey, bring somebody like introduce somebody to someone, right? So, OK, have you met my friend Jim? Have you met my friend John?
Right. Get people in conversation. Some people are good at it, some people aren't. I think it's just another way to expand that network. Yeah. Well, it's funny because when I did this for financial services and then I did it for commercial real estate technology, and everybody was open to, especially on the commercial real estate side, connect with people. And when I got to, you know, cybersecurity, I was told everybody's concerned about
their privacy. Nobody's going to download the app, nobody's going to network, nobody's going to talk to each other. And I kind of called BS on that, right? Because I think, you know, I know privacy, people still take it seriously, but like, you're here for a reason and you want to meet people, right? There's still plenty of people that won't. But the more and more I see is that, you know, it's less about the privacy of like, who am I meeting with or my app?
And you want to maximize your time here. And so, you know, I've seen that come a long way over the 4 1/2 years that I've been in cybersecurity. And it's even identity, you know, like, oh, they will never do that. They'll never do that. I'm like, yes, like people are people and they want to meet and connect. So I think it's going to be a big, big part of the puzzle for identifiers.
You're right. I mean, why do people get on the plane or travel to go to a conference with people was because they want to meet other people. If just are going from session to session, not fucking anybody. You could do that from home watching remotely or something. So people want to have those interactions. I've had some great interactions this week. I Jeff nailed it. Identifiers in Las Vegas is like the event of the year you're planning that.
I'd love to get a hot take or give us some like information. What's it going to be like and are there is there anything you can tell us that maybe you'll be making public for the first time? I'd love that. Have a piece of that for the show. Yeah, give us a scoop, John. We might have puppies this year, OK, you know. You know, go on. I'm listening. I'm a dog person.
No, I think you know where this conversation started about like, you know, you all have a lot of opportunities to go to things, right? And I'm a big believer that it's got to be incredibly valuable, important and fun, right?
And so, you know, I think we're going to try and drive more of that, you know, you know, more innovation content on the show floor, more of the pavilions, more, you know, experiences and activations outside of the floor in different areas at the Mandalay Bay. And, and, you know, it's really important to make sure that we're creating value for everyone. And, you know, I want you to leave there and come back and be like, that was awesome.
It's like, I have to be there and then you're going to tell four or five of your friends that you have to be here. It was so fun. The party at this place or the event at this place and the mainstage production was over the top and it was great. And so, you know, we're, we're working on all that right now. You know, our, our big goal is to get ahead of it, you know, and, and, and you know, we've got a bunch of keynotes that we're working on right now and
some really cool stuff. And you know, I can't drop that right now, but, but hopefully, you know, our goal is to have a good portion of those big time name speakers, you know, confirmed by the end of December and in market by the 1st of January. And you'll see like kind of the investment in what we're trying to do for, for next year. Yeah. I mean, I'll say that the Mandalay is an awesome location. I'm glad you're going back there again. I just had an idea.
You can take it, leave it, whatever you want to do with it. But I remember going to some conferences maybe a decade ago and they'd have like beanbag chairs everywhere. Like you could just sit down and relax and get out of your laptop. I'd love to see Beanbag.
Chairs until you have to get up and that could make a beach turtle trying to get out of it. I know Megan and Adrian from Fight Alliance. They're big on beanbag chairs so if you go like authenticate they have their beanbag which are fun but they sound great in theory until you have to get. I'll see if I can get you a beanbag chair, yeah? And you're a little. Personal one. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be funny.
So let me ask you a final question here as we kind of wrap things up. You're putting on all of these events, right? You're focused on identity and security and all the things that cyber has does. But let's say you're not doing that. You can. Put together whatever. Con You want John. Con tomorrow? Con whatever. What is? What is that convention? What is the topic or the theme
and where do you host it? So I, I think about this all, yeah, if I was going to do this on my own and what, what I would do, and not to be cliche, but like health and Wellness, like really, really has come so far, right. I've been working out and doing stuff for, for my whole life,
basically playing sports. And I have two boys playing, you know, high level lacrosse and how much time and effort they put into it. And, you know, I asked a buddy of mine, like, how many private lessons did you have growing up? And the answer was 0, right? And I've given my kids and all of our kids have gotten all these things. And, you know, I think health and Wellness is, is, you know, a significant piece of our life. It's not going away.
You know, I've invested in, in, you know, studios and, and fitness concepts and things like that. And so it's like where my passion is, you know, I just where the technology's taking that business. I mean, I don't know if you guys wear a woop, but I wear a woop. And you know, I mean, tells me I don't sleep enough to probably drink too much, but but it's, it's really fascinating.
Like the more and more and more you read about this and, and, and understand it like where that is going, you know, so that's, that's one of my passions. And and if it wasn't that, it'd probably be something around wine and food. So where? So where? Would you have this health thought? What's the location? You know, I, I think Austin, TX is the greatest place really, you know, lots of technologies kind of consume that place. It's an incredibly fit city, right?
I just love Austin, right? Like you could run down by the river. They've got all these concepts, you know, bike, you've got the water, you can row, you can boat, you can do all this kind of stuff. And and then I think just Austin's got a great music scene, super fun, great food. And yeah, it's probably, it's like one of my favorite spots. So that's probably where I would, I would. Host it. Good spot. They got a comedy scene too. Good stand. Up, yeah, down there, I have not
rounded the mothership. Yet, but OK. Yeah. Have you? I have not. But I, you know, I, I, I, I've been to Austin maybe just a couple times and you know, I'll travel for work and I rarely spend extra time where I'm at. I'm in and out for business. But that is one of the things that I want to do is go see like, you know, I go see a comedy show, you know, go see something like a kill Tony or something like that. I love stand up comedy and any chance I can get to do like that?
So that's on my list. But also going to like New York City. And I've been in New York City a bunch of times, would have never actually made it to a comedy club like, you know, Village or wherever AV but. So how about you guys? What what? What if you weren't doing a podcast for identity? I think we'd go into together, John and I want to like sharpen it a little bit, see if you're on board.
Longevity. Yeah. So this longevity term that's like one of my mind worms that that's the mind viruses that I, I get onto YouTube and I watch all these people. It's getting so big now and there's like all these different branches that and I, I don't think it goes super nerdy like academic flongevity.
It'd be more, of course, research based, but it would be more of like the commercial, like how does the average Joe wind up juicing the the length and quality of their life, You know, rather than just, you know, living to 80, maybe living to 90, but also making that last 10 years more valuable, having more muscle. That's part of it, but it's also all the other things like what are the supplements you could be
taking? What are the things you can do to improve the quality of life of your life? If you can get me to show off, that's the trick. Yeah. Like. Yes, yeah. I just think that, you know, it wouldn't take long till you're in Vegas where you you know, you have to have like Comic Con level, like, you know, space some under the hell the people showing up for your confidence because you're the top longevity conference That could definitely. For sure. What do you? What do you think, Jeff?
I mean, I'm a I'm a total nerd and dork. So it would probably. Be something technology related. I know there's already like a podcast thing that happens. So maybe some like that Ned National and something Association of Broadcasters has like a conference. So I don't know what it would be, but it would be probably some sort of like nerd con, like cool technology. So crap and let's plug if it and see what works. I'll tell you as a kid growing up, I went to the consumer
electronic show. It was in Chicago at the McCormick Center and it was when the Nintendo was at sort of at the height of its hour, the original Nintendo. And I was blown away at how cool it was to be in this giant Convention Center. That's probably 11 as well would be able to play games that were cutting out, you know, in the future and seeing all the different technologies and stuff like that. CES is now massive.
It's in Vegas. It's it's I will attend one some point, but that's the kind of thing that would interest me would be, you know, something, something like that. And I would do it in Japan. Paulin. So I've never really been to Japan other than the two airports on my waist coming and going from other other areas. But I think I would love to go to Japan because they definitely have the technology footprint that I have interest. All right. That's the other thing we need.
We need an Idanoverse Tokyo. So John, sign me up. Let us know when you're ready for that and we will be at ZB and Me partner. Perfect. Yeah, we're always looking for a reason to travel. We're really gospel of ID 8 this 100 to everybody. All right, well, this has been a great conversation. John. I can't thank you enough for your partnership. It's been a great ride. Let's keep it going to 2026 again. How are you Shirley? She's awesome to work with.
We're texting back and forth. She's like making sure we got convenient. I'm making sure that she's got hurt from that she needs from us. So it's been a. Great hardship there. And at that point I was just like, my, my team is awesome, right? I mean, from it, it's so fun building these things and when you got like a cohesive team, all kind of rowing the boat together and, and, and, and you know, the benefit that you come and experience this.
But you know, kudos to these guys for busting their hump to, to making all this stuff happen because without them, this, this doesn't exist. Chris has been awesome. She's she's like this silence, like conference ninja. She's walking around. She's like making sure things going all right. She's like, all right, let's fix this. Yeah, for sure. Super Palm and very fun to work with as well. All right, let's go ahead and wrap it up for this conversation. Let's see, we're on the web
iecpodcast.com. I have links in our show notes to connect with John on LinkedIn that also to the Cyber Risk Alliance so you can learn about all the stuff they work on. Again, not just identifiers, but so much more. And then yeah, like and subscribe and that helps us get out to these conferences, have great conversations and and all that fun stuff. And yeah, so leave it there for this week. Thanks everyone for watching and or listening and also I could be on the next one.
Thanks guys. You've been listening to Identity at the Center. We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate and review, and we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit the website at identity@thecenter.com. See you next time on Identity at the Center.