This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with IAM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and Jeff Stedman. Welcome to the Identity at the Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim. Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you? Oh, not so bad yourself. I'm doing great. Happy New Year, buddy. Yeah, Happy New Year. 2023 was a great year for the podcast, but I did want to point out December was a banner month. It sure was.
It goes against every single historical marker or trend, but we literally had our best month ever and not even close in the month of December. So we definitely ended 23 on a high note. So it sets the bar that much higher for us this year. That's good. I mean, every year's been better than the year previous. And I mean really all the credit goes to our listeners, right? I mean, we can. There's nothing about these statistics that are because of things we're doing right.
It's the people that are are listening and and energizing us to keep doing the show. And sharing the show with others. It's amazing how people talk to It's like, oh, I didn't know that that thing existed. Yep, here we are doing our thing, 4 1/2 years later, still figuring it out. And behind the curtains here, right, it's we always record the show a few days early, so today's our first day back to work. It's always hard the first day back from work, isn't it, After
you have a long vacation? Yeah, I don't remember what identity and Access Management is. I'm like, trying to figure it out. I'm like, what is it? What's my job? What do I do here? What do I even know? Yeah, it was exactly in a fog for the last week or so. Now another behind the scenes is that we recorded next, the next episode in December, right? It was with Phil Windley. He wrote a book called Learning Digital Identity. It's an awesome book, Big fanboy.
And he turned around and gave us 5 codes that people can use, our listeners can use for downloading an ebook version of the book. And so there's only five of them, right? So we have to come up with a
good way to give them away. And what we came up with is that now we've got this cool new voicemail functionality that we've been thinking, how do we get people to call up to the voicemail and leave a message with a question that we can then take that question and play it on an episode and then answer it. So what we came up with is we'll take five of the questions that people leave on the voicemail and we'll use those during an episode that will drop on
February 5th. And so given that, why don't you tell people how to leave the voicemail? Because I don't think that part is abundantly clear yet. OK, so this is relatively new. I added this to the site in December. I think maybe it was November.
If you go to the website idacpodcast.com right on the homepage you're going to see a little flyer that comes out from the right says talk to us. You just click that and you'll see a little microphone check and you just start talking and it will send your voice message over to Jim and myself.
The other way you can get to it is if you go to the contact page on our website idacpodcast.com, you'll see on the right hand side of the screen there as well a talk to us kind of section, same idea, send us a question, a comment, a concern, how you want to be cooked if you're a potato or prepared as potato. Whatever it is, we'll we'll pick the the five that we like the
best and use them on the show. So you'll want to listen to that episode and we'll hopefully have some some good entrance as we go through that. But that's how you do it. Just go to the website, click the Talk to US banner on the right hand side and there you go. Yeah. And I would say that, you know, obviously we have the the Book contest right now, but that voicemail feature is always available and think we get good questions. We'll keep doing that.
Yeah, I mean, that's what that's always fun to answer kind of live questions and you know, you can drop them all over the LinkedIn, but if we can play it out of the audio on the show, even better. We've tried this in the past, didn't really have a lot of uptake, but we'll see if this this new version is easier for people to use and we'll go from there. Yeah, fantastic. So what's today's episode about? We're going to talk about Chrysalis 4, and this is a conference that's coming up in
the next couple of weeks here. And to help us with that conversation, I want to welcome back Gary Rowe. He's the CEO and founder of Tech Vision Research. He's also the former president of Burton Group, former Co president of Gartner for technical Professionals or GTP for people in the know. He's also been on the show with us, which is why I said welcome back. He was with us in episode 174. This is episode 253. Last time we talked was Chrysalis 2022.
That was October of 22. Welcome back to the show, Gary. Well, thanks and great to be on again. I loved it a year or so ago when we were on and I really appreciate the the opportunity to join you guys again. Well, thanks for taking the time with us. And I'm going to point people back to episode 174. Normally, our first question is how did you get into world of Identity? You've already answered that. So we're not going to put you through that again.
Go back, listen to episode 174 if you want to know Gary's origin story. We talked about Chrysalis last time. We're talking about Chrysalis again. I guess tell me a little bit about the conference itself. You know, what is it? And what is the sort of overarching goal that we're trying to get out of it this year?
So the conference is an end user focused large enterprise conference that takes a hard, pragmatic look at identity, security, governance and privacy and looks at recommendations for large organizations where we believe the industry should be going. And it provides a bit of a platform for large enterprises that are trying to make architecture planning decisions going forward. Dan, you've got kind of a who's who list and and we've got some questions to kind of see that coming up.
But you know, right off the bat, just so people know, when is the conference, where is it and how much is the cost? So the conference is January 16th to 17th. It is a virtual event, so everybody anywhere can participate. It costs $399, but we are offering a 50% discount to those that follow you guys and I believe the code is IDAC 24 and if you put that in when you register, you get 50% off the attendance fee. Yeah, but listening to the podcast has its privileges,
right? But Gary, who's the conference for? Is it for people who've been in the industry for 20 years plus? It's it is for decision makers, architects, certainly experienced people, but also folks that are really trying to understand this in a very concentrated fashion, primarily focused on large organizations that are trying to figure this out. You know, how How does Identity support some of your security goals? How does that tie in with your
governance models? What's the impact of new technologies that are that are being introduced? So there's a set of recommendations and perspectives specifically for large enterprises. So first of all, I I don't want to gloss over the code, 'cause that's very cool. Thank you for the code. IDAC 2 Four gets you 200 bucks off, Nothing to sneeze at, for sure. Membership has his privileges, I guess if you're part of the IDAC crew, right? And by crew, I mean listening audience, it's virtual.
I guess if for people who can't attend, and I'll be honest, I can't attend, 'cause I'm actually going to be on flights and traveling those days. Is there something that I can do to kind of catch up after the fact? You know what's the virtual environment look like? Yeah, absolutely. Everybody who registers for the conference will also, after the fact, have access to all of the
videos from from the event. So you can you can do it in real time, or if there are certain sessions you say can't attend, you can review them afterwards. So Garrett's looking at the agenda and I mean these topics like they are sucking me and I can't wait to attend and I'm not sure if I can attend all of these topics or if you have to pick and choose, maybe you can talk us through that, But the first one that caught my eye was modernization. You will talk a little bit about
the the modernization theme. Sure. So one of the one of the first sessions we have is this next generation Identity and Access management foundation.
And as as an analyst firm, we we've spent a lot of time tracking, wrote a lot of research, worked with a lot of clients on the consulting side with this phenomenon that we're seeing now, which is a lot of the big vendors are taking you know, classic identity in access management, identity governance administration, Privileged access management and other capabilities and trying to build them into one cohesive platform. So large enterprises are at a decision point.
Now do we, do we stick with you know our preferred Pam and IGA an IAM solution or do we look to one of these consolidated
platform solutions. So we'll have a session that will dive into this and look at some of the pros and cons and you know assess you know where Microsoft Intra is and where Okta is with their expansion and where Cyber Ark is and where you know the Toma Bravo, you know contingent of companies, where they are and how they may fit in terms of the capabilities that they're offering in the time frame that they're offering as opposed to other standalone solutions.
So that's that's a real important area that frankly almost every one of our clients is, is trying to figure out now. So that's a key early session of AT Chrysalis this year. So I hear next Gen. throwing around quite a bit. I guess help me understand what does next Gen. even mean? Because I think we needed to decide as an industry, what does that term even mean because it could mean modernization, it
could mean convergence, right? You talk a little bit like platforms kind of coming together, right? Things like that. There's certainly the AI thing sitting out in the corner that is staring at us. Define next Gen., Like, what does it mean to you? Wow. You're you're really nailing me. The the the advantage of of at least partly writing for a living is you have a little flexibility when you use terms like that, you're you're not gonna let me do that.
So next Gen. to me is, you know, when you think about identity, any large organization, remember that's what we're focused on. So any large organization if you're going to make substantive changes, an organization's ability to actually execute on
those changes typically years. So we have to be looking forward in terms of you know where these technologies are going, where the vendors are going, where the market is going because you know if you're planning on kind of best of breed today by time it's fully implemented and deployed and executed and integrated into your applications. It may be several years down the
road. So. So by next generation it's it's this kind of forward-looking perspective, it's trying to put the right stakes in the ground in a reasonable time frame. It's usually. It's usually a year or two. What are the kind of folks that you get in these sessions? Is it mostly panels or is it presenters? And then I'm also wondering like, is this going to be the conference where like quote, UN quote news breaks that something. It's said that you're like, wow, I've actually never heard that
before. This is new information. You brought the Tom Bravo piece and I saw that you have Andre at the conference. Like, are you like expecting or at least hopeful that there's going to be some news that drops? I I I'm absolutely hopeful. I never fully expect. But you know the the focus is on trying to solve some of these problems and trying to you know as an industry really work through what are the right directions for organizations to take.
Most of the sessions will be panel sessions. So you know if you look at the panels and you look at you know some of the just deep thinkers and and folks that really have driven our industry that are on those panels. I'm very hopeful that we will come up with some new things, we will come up with some better solutions. We'll work work through some of these, you know, challenges you know as as a group and you know always focusing on you know what what is best for large enterprises.
Yeah. You know one of the things I think is like if you get those panels and not everybody agrees that's where not that you want to have like a Jerry Springer or anything, right. We're not going to get that in a in a identity conference. But if there's a little bit of difference of opinion, maybe you know, hey, some folks are coming from the perspective of the practitioner, other folks are coming from the product perspective.
But I thought really what could be interesting about the modernization is you really see a tidal wave of new technology not only in our space but in all the other IT spaces. It kind of feels like digital identity has the job onto itself just to keep up with the fast pace of what's happening, you know, in the cloud, in enterprise IT in general. So I'm really like I said, really interested in that
modernization track. You know, Jeff touched on convergence and the other theme that really jumped out at me was artificial intelligence. And it wouldn't be an episode of identity at the center or artificial intelligence at the center if we didn't bring this up. So I mean, this is a big theme, right? This is pervasive beyond IT, right? This is like people are talking about this at the bar over a couple of beers. How? How's it going to affect or or? How does that theme fit into
Chrysalis? So it fits in in in a couple of ways. Like I mentioned earlier, the in almost every session we're going to have a lot of really smart people discussing and debating these things, answering questions, trying to, you know, pontificate about where things should be going in almost every session. I think it would be, it would look naive. It would almost be impossible not to be looking at artificial intelligence and generative AI and big data and how decisions
are made and so forth. So that'll be infused into virtually every session and identity and security and governance. We also have a separate panel discussion that looks at the impact of artificial intelligence and as we all know, good and bad as it applies to security, as it applies to identity and governance. And like on that panel will have a lady I've been fortunate enough to collaborate with over the years. Barbara Starr was one of the top artificial intelligence people
in the world. I mean, she did a lot of the the DARPA work over the last 20 years that developed a lot of the foundation that ended up, you know, resulting in in Siri and a lot of the, you know, AI technologies we we kind of take for granted at this point. She's also done a lot of security work. We'll also have on in this particular session, Diana Kelly, who I, I, I, I'm sure you guys know and have worked with, you know, over over a period of
time. She's not only a security expert, she's doing a lot of work in in artificial intelligence and security. Now we also have Chris Wolf, who I had the pleasure to work with at Burton Group A long time ago, but Chris now runs AI at VM Ware. So we'll have that perspective. And then another former colleague of mine, It's the advantage of being pretty old and having been in the industry a long time, almost everyone
I've worked with at some point. But we'll have Nick Nichols on that panel who runs the security area at Open Text now and it it and identity is within that, but it's done a lot of innovative work and and we'll have another perspective on artificial intelligence and generative AI and how that kind of fits into this model. So you know we'll have a great team, we'll dive into this deeply.
You know, I want to make sure when we when we look at AI though that we look at it with with the proper perspective, you know it's it's not going to solve all problems and artificial intelligence and machine learning in general, it's it's sometimes wrong. And you know if we want to make very prescriptive decisions solely based on you know AI and machine learning generated data, we need to be careful. So we need to be thinking of the governance and so forth, you
know, around that. Yeah, it's I I I think AI is one of those battlegrounds where it's going to become a differentiator for a lot of organizations. And I, you know, who is the best AI in quotation marks? And I think that's one of the attacks that we're starting to see, even early on, is poisoning the models that are being used to generate that kind of stuff. I want to take it down a level, though, 'cause that's super serious stuff. Tell me about Gary, the writer who does this for a living.
How do you see AI? Do you see it helping you? You know, write your research. Write. Blogs, articles, things like that. Is it cheating? And I asked because I use it quite a bit. I'm a big fan of it, but I certainly recognize the challenge around it. But I I'm always curious to people who actually write for a living, how do they view AI in the context of, you know, what you do for a living? I think it it it can be
extremely helpful and useful. I haven't personally leveraged it that much in terms of my writing yet. I've used it for some primary research, but then I'll pick an example. An area that should have covered for the last 6-7 years is the area of verifiable credentials and decentralized identity. And you know when you when you do some ChatGPT you know requests in that area it it
gives you a lot of older data. And you know so for things that are moving really quickly and there's lots of changes that will improve over time of course. But you know as so for certain things it's it's not quite as useful. But for some general research, if you're trying to get up to speed on a new topic, you know,
I think that's really important. And you know there there is an opportunity for analysts, for writers to basically get a level set pretty quickly especially if it's something new that you're trying to research and understand and then kind of interpret that data and you know make your decision you know as an analyst as to what really is correct and and and what what might need some some additional research. Kind of strikes me of like, when I was growing up, Pluto was a
planet and then it wasn't. So for longest time I was like, oh, well, Pluto's a planet. So it is. And then. And then the facts changed. It no longer was a planet. And I, I don't know. Is it a planet again? I don't. I think there's some some movement I think to move it back. But it strikes me as that same kind of data model that you talked about where it maybe doesn't know recent things like you said. That'll get better over time, right?
Comes more real time, that kind of thing, But I think that's kind of a cautionary tale for people. If you take the data today at face value, you're not doing fact checking. You end up in the news for a for a variety of different reasons. Lots of people are citing legal arguments, for example, that never took place, right?
Things like that. So I I I did a lot of work 6-7 eight years ago and you know beginning to look at distributed Ledger blockchain technology and associated with blockchain it are smart contracts and to me how 1 uses generative AI is kind of like a smart contract. There's, there's some regulatory
issues. There's if you're actually executing automatically based on like with the smart contract, based on if this and this then that, then execute then I'm agreeing you know on this, on this contract to purchase something or whatever to buy some commodity, There's some risk associated with that. And it's the same thing with generative AI. You know, we get to a point where there's a there's a set of recommendations, there's you know, big part of AI is predictive analytics.
We want to kind of figure out what's going to happen at some point in the future. But to be able to interpret that, to be able to contextualize that I think is is important for some period of time. You know one of the and and Barbara will will talk about
this a little bit. You know, at Chrysalis, one of the challenges that artificial intelligence has is being able to explain how it reached the conclusion that it reached explainable AI. And you know, that's that there's a lot of work to be done to to try to figure that out.
So you can say, you know here, here's what you should do at a point in time, But depending on the decision, if it's a security area, the risk involved and so forth, you probably want to look into it a little bit more, at least based on where it is right now. I think it's a fascinating space. I think it keeps changing. So trying to keep up with it is almost a little bit of a fool's errand. But I I have on record on this podcast of being very bullish of how AI is going to impact the
identity space. Specifically, you mentioned earlier and kind of teased some of the names that are speaking at the conference, and you have these concepts of legends panels, right? So you've got an identity legend panel, you've got a security Legends paddle with some, I'll be honest, some really good gets, as we say in the business, right? For for speakers. I guess my question is, one, who decides who the legends are?
And then two, tell me a little bit about these panels, the identity legends, the security legends panels. Like what's the point of those conversations and what are you expecting for people to get out of those?
So the the decision is is made first by by by me and our analyst team, you know and and I think if you look at some of the names and kind of their histories, I mean there's lots of legends out there, but it would be hard to argue that that any of the ones that are on either the Identity or Security legends panel shouldn't be there. So on the on the identity panel, I'll, I don't necessarily consider myself a legend, but I'll kind of choreograph it. And we've had some amazing people.
We've had Jamie Lewis and Kim, Kim Cameron, a lot of folks on past Legends panels. But it gets back to the core premise that you know there's a lot of information out there, but you know if you're making a decision, certainly in the security and risk side, that could could cost your cost, your organization everything. If there's a major breach or if there's some some problem on the identity side, it certainly could lead to major problems or major opportunities.
If you if you do it correctly, you want to have the best in the industry for for these recommendations. So for example, on the Identity Legends panel, we have Andre Durand who has been in the space. He's a little younger than me, but almost as long as I have, you know, built up Ping Identity did did a conference called Digital ID World before that did Identivers. You know, he's been in the middle of this space. And you know, from my perspective, you know, Andre is
one of the good guys. He wants to do the right things for the industry, wants to build companies and do all the things business people do. But you know, he he really gets it. We have Eve Mailer who you know with CTO for years at Ford Rock. She's been in the middle of this space. She, you know has she was with Forrester before that. She from an analyst perspective, from an understanding of identity, from a user centric perspective is an absolute superstar.
We have Lori Robinson, who runs Identity at Salesforce.com. Now, Laurie has been, you know, in the middle of this space. I had the pleasure to work with her at Burton Group over over
the years. She's one of the top thought leaders at Gartner and now actually driving things at at Salesforce. Kevin Campman who's part of Tech Vision Kevin, Kevin was was with us from the early days at Burton Group and he is probably, if you want to find the top IGA person in the world, Kevin has covered that forever.
But we have Martin Coppinger and and Martin has you know he's built I believe the premier research firm that focuses on identity and security and governance in Europe over the years built, you know some fantastic conferences and is one of the thought leaders you know in our industry. So you know that's that's on the, that's on the identity side. Do you want me to talk about the Security Legends panel as well? Yeah, please. In this area we've been extremely fortunate again.
We have on this panel several current and past Chief Information Security officers and they're making a lot of the the the hard decisions. I'll start with Malcolm Harkins. Malcolm was the long time Chief Information Security Officer at Intel really before being a SISO was was even a thing and really LED them over the years a great speaker, a great thinker in this
area. We have Alex Toshev who is the Chief Information Security Officer at VM Ware and well known in in our industry not only for what he's done at VM Ware but a lot of the Silicon Valley companies he's he's helped and and and driven over the years. We have Steve Roberts who is the Chief Information Security Officer at Honda and Steve actually spoke with us last year as well and did a did did a fantastic job.
We have Fred Cohen who is probably the, the, the deepest thinker that that I've ever, you know dealt with in the cybersecurity space. You also don't know exactly what he's going to say, which which makes it makes it a lot of fun and makes it very entertaining. But to give you a sense for Fred, and he's work worked with me at Burton Group years ago, but but Fred in his doctoral thesis back in the early 80s was the first one to develop the concept of computer viruses.
And he correlated computer viruses with biological developed a lot of the early remediation, you know, software and so forth. And then Diana Kelly who most people know she's she was also with us at Burton Group A great analyst. She she was was a security leader at IBM and Microsoft and now she's working with Protect AI focused in you know some of the areas that that that we've
been talking about. So you know I, I I know from my perspective if I'm going to go to an event and I'm going to spend my time and I'm going to listen to people. I want to listen to people who have that level of credibility and when they say something, you know, I'm really going to listen and get something out of it. Sounds like Crystal's going to be a fantastic conference. I hope all of our listeners get a chance to attend again that. Discount code.
Discount code. Yeah, we got to push that out there one more time. It'll be in our DAC 24. Yeah, it'll be in the show notes. So what do you have Gary, planned beyond the conference? What we want to do is take a lot of what we're what we're discussing at the conference and and we were very intentional wanting to have it right at the beginning of the year 'cause I think this can represent a great planning foundation for large enterprises. But that will then drive our
research theme for the year. So you know we'll continue to expand upon these topics, build build upon it a lot of coverage of course on generative AI and artificial intelligence and its impact in these areas. Kevin Campman and I are about 85% of the way done with which would be a great document on identity governance and administration and and we just concluded you know big consulting project on that.
That's an important part of our research is and our conference is you know to do a lot of the hands on work to be you know at at client environments that are trying to figure these things out. You get kind of a pragmatic perspective that's difficult to get just you know pulling information together in in doing research.
So you know one of the things Kevin talks a lot about which which I find interesting and we'll expand upon in our IGA document and probably some some additional work this year is the human element. And the fact that when we, when we look at IGA, of course you know there are vendors that have IGA products and we think about it as a product, but it's a process and it needs to fit into.
You know if you think about digital and where it has gone over the years, one of the biggest challenges is how do we govern this, how do we manage it. And it's not just on the identity side, it's what Kevin will call Big G Big governance. How do we instantiate policies, how do we ensure that those policies make their way through the identity systems and the security systems and and and so on. We'll continue to do a lot of focus on the research we just published our document on the
future of identity management. But we have a a top 12 list there of areas that enterprises at least in our opinion should should look to invest in. And we we kind of prioritize those starting with governance, going to the this consolidated platform to AI and machine learning and figuring out how to leverage that better integrating some of these capabilities and
so forth. And so we'll continue to push out the research agenda, you know, push out our consulting, but stay focused on this next generation of identity, security and governance And you know how enterprises should should be dealing with this as as you've pointed out given given the change we have and it's not just in generative AI, just the change that we have throughout you know, handling the scale that we need to handle now, handling, you know, increased
regulatory controls and privacy controls and so forth, Lots and lots of challenges out there which I think will keep us busy for the next year. I like this idea of what I'm gonna call working media, right. I mean you're you've got your firm you're doing, you know this research stuff of that. But you also do the consulting and Jim and I have this podcast and we also do the consulting, right? We it, we're not theoretical scientists when it comes to
identity. We're very much in the weeds with, you know, each of our customers learning from them what are the challenges are being faced in the real world. Which to be, to be honest, I find that refreshing personally because I'm not in an ivory tower dealing with, well, this is the way it should be and in the real world, that's not the Hawaii, it works right. The real world's messy. There's politics. There's budgets. There's this old app that we've tried to get rid of for 20 years
that is never going anywhere. And so you gotta plan around that. So I I really enjoy those kind of conversations and I love it when people bring so the real life right into the conversation as well. It's kind of kind of what you referenced before. Yeah, we're definitely of like minds there. You know, I think it it is, you know, in the end enterprises need to build these things, architect them and deploy them. And you know, it's not just speeds and feeds.
It's, you know, what works, How do you deploy it, how do you integrate it and how does that tie in with your business? You know, because in the end, a couple of years ago when when Eve Mailer was on an earlier Identity Legends panel, one of the things you know, she, she highlighted, which is kind of stuck with me is, you know, like like us folks that that look at identity. You know, we think that this is,
you know, a really big thing. But if you're running a business, it's not like, you know, you really care about that. You care about, you know how quickly a customer gets engaged. You care about how you provision the right services to the right customers. You care about the security side.
But this, but you know the kind of integration of the kind of practical business side with the you know technology helps us, you know probably is stay focused really you know on the right thing which is how's your business going to be successful. And these are all enabling technologies that you know, hopefully you know improve that bottom line, your customer relationships, retention and all of those good things.
I like that. I like that comment you made about you know what Eve said, right? It the the, the business doesn't necessarily care how things are getting done as long as they're getting done the risk is low, right. All those good stuff. I think that's probably good feedback for everybody. Everyone thinks there's the most important thing in the world. No, I this is a lesson I learned. Serving table, you know, waiting tables way back when.
Your ranch dressing maybe isn't the most important thing in the world right now. So we'll get to it. We'll get to it. Gary, you've been really generous with your time and I want to start to wrap things up, but it wouldn't be an episode if we didn't end on a lighter note.
And I'm gonna make this one a little bit holiday themed, 'cause I think for the most part, I know you've been busy towards the end of the year and a lot of people really were like end of year rush, but hopefully people had some time to kind of decompress and take some time off. And typically around the holidays there's probably some good meals that are taking place, either family or other things. What's the best thing that you ate over this most recent holiday break?
Well the best thing I'm I ate was was something I cooked I must say and it was A and and we had a traditional Turkey and so forth but especially with with. With my kids, who really love seafood, I made a pasta Primavera with shrimp, lobster and crab meat and that was that was a big hit and I must say I enjoyed it. That's a pretty good roll out there for sure. Jim, what did you have that was memorable for food over the break? Yeah, and I my my item was something I cooked.
Also, it was the first time cooking it. It was a prime rib. I took a 5 LB prime rib and roasted it and turned out great. Now The funny thing was, our friend of the show, Arturo, texted me. He was doing the same thing but on New Year's. I said, hey man, I've got the perfect thing. 23 minutes at 350 per pound, 23 minutes per pound. And he wrote me back later, overcooked. I was like, man, I ruined the guy's prime rib. But I don't like my meat to be bleeding out and stuff like that.
So it was, it was pre mellow. It was wonderful. What about you, Jeff? Honestly, I had a few things and so I'm selfish. And I came up with this question and I was like, I I ate good over the break. My wife is a very good chef and so she made her a bunch of things We had prime rib for for Christmas Eve dinner. That was fantastic. We did a ham, but it wouldn't be me saying something if it wasn't something that wasn't good for
you as a Christmas present. My wife got me the Ninja like it's like an ice cream blender thing. I can't remember what it's called. Basically, you can make your own Blizzards if you're familiar with Dairy Queen and you drop your ice cream in, You can make ice cream in it, but you drop your mixins and it does the whole thing where it mixes together.
And I gotta tell you, we're not sponsored by Ninja, but I would happily be sponsored by Ninja to talk about this thing all day long because I have been eating ice cream like every day for like the last week. So I ordered a peloton today to replace my old one, but that was by far. It was like the coolest thing was making your own, like blizzards at home and it comes out chef's kiss. I might have to buy one of those. Yeah, me too. I just got a ninja air fryer.
Air Fryers are the best thing ever. That That means you can bring fries home and you don't have to worry about it. Yeah, I've only done a few things. I just just got it a couple weeks ago, but yeah, the yearly results are very good. Yep. Drop them. You can drop the McDonald's fries in and you put it for about 3:50 or so for about four minutes. Crystal them right up tight, man. We're living good now. So we're talking ice cream, we're talking fried foods. Yeah.
I and I ordered a peloton rower today. So that's me getting hopefully into better shape for 2024. That's a good spot where I think we'll leave it for this week. Gary, thank you so much for taking the time with us. Really looking forward to the Chrysalis conference. For those who haven't registered yet, use our code IDAC 2 Four, that'll be in our show notes as well. Take advantage of that. And thank you to Gary for that partnership and providing that for all of our great listeners
out there. And we'll have links in our show notes to Gary if you want to ask him questions on LinkedIn to the Chrysalis event itself, so people can check out the agenda and stuff like that and register as well as there's a report that I think you guys are coming up with or maybe it's already out the future of identity management. It's sort of like the next five years in 30 to 60 seconds. Give us like, what is that report about?
So that report is one that we've done each of the past like 6 years and we put together a prioritized list of the areas that enterprises should be thinking about architecting and investing in. So we first I had a top ten list, now we have a top 12 list. It it ties into some of the macro trends that we talked about earlier.
But, but it's a way that enterprises can basically say, you know, as we're thinking about our identity program this year, you know, here's kind of a third party assessment of some of the things we need to be thinking about. And so we'll have a link to that in our show notes. People can check that out as well. I'm. I love thinking about the future, so I'm curious to see what's gonna come up out of this. You know what? For me, it's like, OK, what should I be thinking about and
what should I not care about? Because I have enough things to think about. Anything that whittles down what I need to keep in my brain, I'm always a fan of. So hopefully there'll be some good Nuggets coming out of that. You can find us on the web ID acpodcast.com. Don't forget to use that voicemail button, Start sending those voicemails in. And lucky, lucky winners that we'll use on the show for voicemails will get a copy of of the book that we'll be announcing as well.
So that's from Phil Winley. Jim, what's the name of that book again? Learning digital identity. Yeah, yours, everybody. What everybody Who Listens podcast probably wants to do. Well, you know, kind of a teaser for the next episode. You know, Phil comes on the show and and Jim's holding up his book. Like, look at me, I I've read your book. It's a heavy book, man. If you read a book that big, you'd be proud of yourself too. Yeah, I'm not a reader. I'll wait for the movie. How about that?
I don't think it'll be a mess, mass market kind of thing. Hey, you never know. Like this podcast, right? We still continue to grow. You never know, maybe there'll be an IAM movie at some point. All right, on the web, idacpodcast.com, on Twitter or X or whatever we're calling it this year. IDAC Podcast Mastodon at IDAC Podcast at infosec dot exchange. Feel free to connect with us on LinkedIn as well, check out our show notes.
And don't forget to, like, subscribe and keep sharing the the gospel of identity at the center with others. So appreciate everyone for listening and we'll talk with everyone in the next one. You've been listening to Identity at the Center. We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate and review and we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit the website at identity@thecenter.com and find us on Twitter at IDAC Podcast. See you next time on Identity at the Center.