This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with IAM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and Jeff Stedman. Welcome to the Identity at the Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim. Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you? Oh, not so bad yourself. Good. But I think it's, I think we should be honest with our listeners, right? Never. No. Yes, of course. This episode was not planned. Nope.
We came to the realization today that we never closed out for the year on a previous podcast, so we had to do one more episode, you know, with our predictions for next year and all that good stuff. Yeah. So it's Monday, December 11th. Or like, wait, like we recorded a couple of episodes and like, we never closed it out. It's like, we should probably do something. You just want to do it right now? Yeah. OK. That's how this episode came together.
We literally just put this together, like, you know, the last 10 minutes. And yeah, here we are recording. Yeah, well, we're we're busy fellows too. So we looked at our calendar over the next week and was like, yeah, we can't do it anytime, but right now. So do you want to do it now? The show must go on. Yeah, let's do it. We'll do it live. Yeah. I think we'll probably kind of start with a, I guess, recap of the year, the year in summary, Did you know we put out 59 episodes this year?
That's more than 1A. Week. It's mind boggling, yeah. It is crazy. And the way we were able to accomplish that primarily was because of the conferences and all the great guests who joined us throughout the year. And I think the other thing is the motivating factor of people letting us know that they listen, they enjoy the show. They really liked hearing from this guest or that guest. And you know, I that's what that's what motivates us. Yeah. That and the the love of my own voice.
I'm just kidding. I hate my voice. No, it's very it is very, very nice to get compliments and stuff like that. When people say oh hey listen and blah blah blah, that's pretty cool. Had my first, you know, in the real life consulting someone recognize my voice of like on the podcast and I was like, oh, that's kind of cool. I definitely look good in front of my bosses, which was super nice. Yeah, well, it's also weird that, like, somebody recognizes
your voice. Like usually people are like, oh, I remember everybody's face, but never remember everybody's name. But to recognize somebody by their voice, that's pretty. Cool. Yeah, it's pretty neat. It is what it is. We doubled our listeners again. This marks the, I guess, 4th, 3rd or 4th year that we've kind of done this year end recap. We started this thing 4 1/2 years ago. We doubled yet again and all with 0 advertising budget. We don't advertise, it's all word of mouth.
So thank you very much to everyone who shares the show, comments, subscribes, right, All that good stuff. Yeah, and we're we're now on YouTube too. So and we are caught up too. Yeah, the real point of YouTube is that we know that so many people use YouTube for getting their podcasts and it's really like you know, the the one stop shop for a lot of people. So we have to be there.
But I would say even if you're not following us on YouTube, I think we've we've done a really good job in terms of making our presence known. So you can find the show in your podcast app, but if you go into YouTube, you also type out the full identity at the center before the show pops up. So if folks get a chance to go out there and subscribe and like some videos, that would be appreciated. Yeah, just another Ave. for people to listen. We want to be where you guys want to listen.
So hopefully that makes sense. We're, I feel like we've got the podcast audio side, if it worked out. Most people are listening on Apple. I mean just from a metric standpoint, you know over half our audience is on Apple with Spotify being a very distant second and a whole bunch of everything else. But YouTube's growing and I'm a I'm a YouTube premium person, like based on YouTube running all day.
So I figured I'm like. This close to getting YouTube Premium. I'm I love YouTube and I'm so sick of the ads they run because I don't know if regular TV does this as much or not, but the YouTube you get you getting the same advertisements over and over and over. I see that a lot on Hulu. The same commercial over and over again drives. Me crazy. But I mean, you can't be premium on on every platform, yeah. Well, I mean, you could, but then you're back into the old
days, right? Where like why do I have cable subscription? Like I don't want the channels I want. Yeah, yeah, pretty much, yeah. But it's it was a great year. I think getting to the conferences we were talking about and being on stage, you know it authenticate we're on the keynote stage. I was nervous as heck being on the keynote stage. Everybody's like, you know, it's kind of like, you know, like even giving a presentation in front of a small group.
But I think I mentally psyched myself out that there's like hundreds of people out there. The good thing was the the lights were shining so bright in our face, I really couldn't see how many people were out there. I blacked out. Kind of like that scene from old school where I think it's was it Will Ferrell? He answers the question right. And I was like, I got no response. I'm like, what just happened, right? I think it was, you know, at that point it was just not
audible. That was James Carville, who was like, I have no response, the mouth of the South. That was a fun conference. Definitely looking forward to trying to do something like that. We have some ideas. We've been working with Adrian. I've been working with Adrian. I haven't. I don't think I've shared them with you yet, but I think you'll like it. Some ideas on what we might do for Authenticate next year, So that'd be kind of cool.
We were at Identiverse. We did some live podcasting sort of in between like the I guess like the Expo hall and like the the keynote room. But it was fun having people kind of walk by. I think one of the things that we heard is feedback was people couldn't hear us, which I totally get. We haven't figured out how to like amplify our voices and not ruin the recordings.
So but that was kind of neat, having people kind of come through and having sort of like this rotating set of guests that you had lined up to kind of come in and sit for 15 minutes and then someone else would come in and things like that. That was kind of fun. Yeah, yeah, I know it was very fun. Yeah, I I think one of the things that would be really cool would be to be in the Expo hall.
So if you could stop by and just drop in for a chat, my worry is that it would be just too much background noise. Be difficult to hear without like speakers and I don't know I mean I'm. I'm we're gonna try and figure out a way to do that. We might do something like that at like Authenticate for example. That's one of the ideas we've had. So if you're interested in having more of identity the center at these conferences, reach out to the conference organizers let them know. Right.
That helps, helps us. We're generally working with those kinds of folks anyway. But you know the more people I think the better kind of helping articulate that. But it is not a it is not an insurmountable problem. I'm sure we will figure it out at some point we read Gartner. This was kind of a personal highlight for me was presenting at Gartner. I know we didn't present right. We did our sort of on stage interview and kind of like the podcast style with Henrique and Becky.
I just had such a good time with it and it was kind of a, you know, one of those bucket was that was like hey present at Gartner, right. Was kind of one of those things I never really thought would be on the list, but we got it done. Yeah, I mean, one of the things that really jumped off for me was that you were kind of like you were built for that moment, man. You was like you were in your MC zone. Well, yeah, I guess behind the
curtains I would go back. Behind it was, I was the healthy one, and you were the one that was sick as a dog or not feeling well or something. And so I was like, all right, well, we'll do it live. We figured it out. That's right, I forgot. And you had the whitest shoes ever. I remember that. Oh yeah, I was. I mean, I was dressed to the hilt, but I forgot I actually had to have a traveling nurse come to my room and hook me up to an IV.
And I swear to God, I hadn't. I didn't have any alcohol. I wasn't hungover. I just ended up with some kind of, like, flu or COVID or something. But I was like, there's no way I'm going to lose. Some COVID on the stage, yeah. I don't know what it was, I never heard any feedback like but. You never tested when you did the testing. No, no, I definitely didn't. Yeah, Don't. Yeah. So don't do that. Don't be that guy that. Shows up. Don't be that guy, No. So conferences were definitely a
highlight. I think a highlight also is that, you know, we've kind of like started this year, but really I think it's going to take off next year in terms of the sponsored episodes. Yeah. Sponsor. Spotlight. Sponsor. Spotlight. So I mean, that gives us an opportunity to, I mean, some of those episodes, one of the episodes really is already dropped now, right? Yeah, it came out last week. If you're listening, obviously this will go out on December 18th. That's planned.
So the first one would have hit was it Wednesday, December 13th, I think it was, yeah, with Sunri security, which was a lot of fun. I enjoyed doing it and kind of collaborating with them and and the idea is that it's this show on Mondays that we typically do our vendor neutral. This was an idea and an opportunity to get more vendor and product specific and ask some of those questions and sort of collaborate with them on sort of you know, ideas for for
topics and stuff like that. So that's sort of the intention of it. But yeah, maybe we'll see more of these in the future, but these are in addition to our normal stuff. So I I call them like bonus episodes, if you will. Yeah, no. And I I mean, I honestly don't think they're going to feel like commercials. I think they're going to be
informative. One thing I cannot stand is when I'm listening to a podcast that I like and it's just like commercials, you know, like right in the middle when it's getting to the good part. Like now I'm going to make you listen to two minutes of commercials about like a new mattress or something like that. And I just don't like that. Yeah. So podcasts cost money. And one of the things that we started again is that sponsor Spotlight kind of help with some of those costs.
But before anybody thinks this is a cash grab, what we're actually doing is in the process of setting up a nonprofit associated with this podcast. So I have an application open with the IRS. I'm waiting to hear back. Still, I was kind of hoping to be able to announce it by the end of the year. Maybe I'll be able to announce it when we come around back from the holiday break.
But yeah, that's the intention is to basically form a nonprofit that will help keep this channel, this podcast funded, help defray some of the costs and expenses that we've had over the years and keep us going to conferences and things like that. Well, what I'm really hoping to do is go to a conference in Europe or something we're. Going to need more sponsor spotlights to get. That done a lot of them. Yeah, but that's the intention.
So we've gone 4 1/2 years without doing a commercial or taking a dime from anybody, with the exception of travel expenses, which are typically paid by our employers. So shout out to RSM who has been super supportive of all this And then we work with conferences from time to time, right, to kind of promote that and usually for that is we get like a a conference pass right, to be able to attend, stuff like that.
So hopefully this will help keep us on the right side of that vendor neutrality and not see this as like a a money making venture, but that's really the intention. I'm kind of excited to like hey, you know, we've started a nonprofit, hopefully we get approved. If we don't, I'm sure I will complain about it in the new year and figure out we need to do to reapply. But that is the intention for this.
Yeah that's pretty awesome and I think it you know it allows to keep making content keep I mean keep getting the technology that makes One of the things that I think is I want to point out and like applaud you for pat you on the back for is like our early episodes. I mean, we were recording on like teams and they were they they sound like poop. I mean, they sounded like a guy in his basement with zero treatment, like literally hard surfaces everywhere on a
condenser microphone. Yeah, talking into Zoom and on a single track. And yeah, now here we are with, you know, I've definitely got a lot of gear. You're starting to build up the gear. I'm going to get you caught up at some point here.
But yeah, yeah, well, I'm not a gear guy like you, but I don't also do all the editing like you, so it is important for you to have it. Yeah, if you've ever been on the show as a guest and you're listening, you know before we hit record that I am constantly like checking audios. Like Nope, you're you're too close to the mic. Turn down your game. Like, I'm definitely very particular, but the whole goal is right, to make this sound better. So, so yeah, that's it's with
it's with the love. Yeah. So I guess most people have tuned into this episode to hear about identity and access management. What do you think? Yeah, probably. I was about the last couple minutes self congratulating ourselves and talking about sort of the future. We wanted to make this a relatively quick episode and kind of tie it out for the end of the year. Came up with a speed round of questions to ask each other and kind of interview each other on. I'm going to jump right into it.
The first question we came up with is and mostly you came up with these is who are your identity heroes? Jim, you go. Well, I don't want to, you know, keep saying this, but you know the person, the first person that came to mind when you asked that question or when we started talking about that was Vittorio Bertucci. And he just was somebody who exemplified, I think, what many of us strive for, which was, yeah, the guy was brilliant, yeah, he was an excellent communicator.
All those things that you'd want to have from professional persona, but he's a real human being and that's why I think everyone is like so upset with the loss of him this year. So hey, being that this is our last episode of the year, I wanted to bring it up one more time that, you know, he's definitely probably at the at the top of the of the hill for me. You got anybody? No, I think Victoria was a good pick.
I think the word that I always think of when I whenever I talked with him was just he was so magnanimous, generous with his time, super gracious, always, you know, had something to say and opinion and was never mean or condescending or anything like that. Even if I asked a stupid question, you know it was just just a solid guy and you know the industry is is going to miss him sorely. Yeah, I would. I would do want to honor roll,
mention a few other people. Enrique from Gartner is somebody that I follow on LinkedIn that we've obviously know him as a friend now, but I just think he's, you know, shaping opinions and really influential and it's like he puts out a post like so many people respond, you know, definitely David Mottie, definitely Ian Glazer, Cyrus Suchetti, Pam Dingle. Those are a few people that come to mind that I just admire.
You know what they've what they're doing for the industry and kind of the influence and impact they have on the industry. Yeah, I look at a little bit different way, I think of the people who are willing to put themselves out there, maybe it's, I guess, pretty close to what you were saying. I mean, there's a lot of good identity content creators out there. I mean, I feel kind of weird saying we're content creators, but that's what we do. That's what this industry is.
I think of people like Andrew Chanthorphone, who is putting himself out there. He's done LinkedIn stuff. He's done YouTube stuff right. It takes guts to put yourself out there and to keep doing it. So all the memes you mentioned, plus that. And I really like the way Andy Hindel approached Identiverse this year. And I was at the Identiverse regional event in New York City a few weeks ago. I thought it was great. There needs to be more of those. For the first one, it was really
well run. I'm sure it'll get even better. But you know, my feedback was positive. I had invited a couple of folks that I knew in the area too as well. They enjoyed it as well. So I really interested to see how how Identiversity evolves beyond just one Big Bang in the summer or whatever it is, which I still think is important and good, but into maybe having these smaller regional events that people who can't travel, you know, long distances are able to take part in the in the
industry. Yeah, actually, it's interesting. When you started seeing that, I was thinking where you're going with it is the everyday people who are out there solving identity challenges. And I was thinking the Clark Kent of the world, you know, the people who, they rip their shirt open and then they are Superman or Superwoman underneath. So yeah, pretty cool. I mean, Yep, those folks are the everyday heroes too. They don't get the spotlight as much, but they're doing the
doing the job. Real work by real people. All right, next question. You can take this one. All right, Next question I had was, and now I'm like sitting in the dark, so I'm having to move my I I was on a kick today. I wrote things down on paper. I know you said that and I was like, right? Paper. Are you familiar with paper? It's, yeah, this ancient material. I can't leave my handwriting, but that's why. That's why I don't write on paper so it's easier. It's easier and faster for me to
type. Mine's getting really bad. What's the most important new technology in digital identity? AI 100% for me, it's AII think it's going to be a massive shift for us. You're already seeing, you're already seeing it in products and I mean the new AI, generative AI, not AI machine learning which has been around for a while. What about you? I was going to go with ITDR. Because I really think that, and this is my reasoning is I think that identity is always been
around. Who has access to what I think the the next frontier is and what are they doing with it. I've said that a few times on the show. And I think when you know what's being done with an account and then you can spot anonymous behavior and you can then take action to shut down the account or you know, at least pause things. To me that's that's that next frontier. I hate that it still relies on
logs and I think logs. You know, one of the things I think that's so great about cloud platforms is that they log things centrally. And when you're talking about traditional enterprise IT, you've got logs everywhere And without having one picture of everything, all thing, knowing all things at all times everywhere, then you've got a major shortcoming and you can't rely on it.
So anyway, I do think that space and whether or not it continues to evolve and change names, which I think that's a sign of success, right. Identity governance and administration was identity administration and governance at one point. So it's like these names transform over time at one time. It's called identity management. So kind of the same thing in a way it's done a little bit differently. But yeah, so that's it for me
all. Right. I mean I feel like ITDR is just the again that evolution of UBAUEBA over time which I got it, it's important. I think it's, I think it's still it requires you to have technologies and logs in place already And so that's the way I look at it. I don't know if, I don't know if I necessarily think it was like a new thing. I think it's just an evolution, but hey, that's our personalities and how we think about things. Kind of like how would you like to be prepared if you were a
potato, right? We each have different answers to that, you know, we think about it from different viewpoints. Completely different viewpoints, so I I think we should end the show with the answer to that question. I think we've already answered it, but we can, I'll try to make a note, if you're if you remember when we come back to that next question, what will AI
mean to identity in five years. So I've already said that I think it's the most important thing that came out of the year this year, at least for me. Where do you see AI taking
identity in five years? I think AI could move quick enough that basically deployment of AI and integration with connected systems could be highly automated using AII think that's where AI really needs to head is that, you know, people don't have to do all the things that they do today to connect systems, to deploy functionality and all that. You should be able to tell the AI interface what you want to happen, and then it figures out how to do it and makes it work.
It's. Not going to be great for system integrators and implementation teams and things like that. I think we're five years. Yeah, I think that's, I think it's doable. What I'm concerned about is we're talking about an AI configuring your security infrastructure. So you better make sure that those configurations are solid and that they're not, you know,
incorrectly configured. So what happens if you go off and buy a tool that requires low code, no code, but you actually do need to do some coding and you don't have those capabilities in inside, you know, you don't know the product or whatever it may be. I think. I think there's still going to be a space for that kind of
thing. But I I think your head, I I think you're thinking already kind of where I was thinking as well is more of a Clippy on steroids, a wizard on steroids approach where instead of you know keywords now it's actually trying to infer it from the language. But I think this is again where I see product specific AI and I'm specifically referring to generative AI in large language models and that being a secret sauce for identity companies. Is the sale point AI better than the Sabient AI?
Is the Microsoft AI better than the Octa or Ping AI at doing those things? I think that'll be a key battleground that will sort of emerge over the next few years. Yeah, I think what's going to happen, if you look further out, it's AI plus quantum computing, and it can completely revolutionize how things get done now. I might be retired by then, so and I would be OK with that. Let's. Try rail that around it.
I think, I think honorable mention here would be for self sovereign Idi really just see that people aren't going to want to carry wallets with cards in it and cash and things like that. They just want to carry their one device. I don't really think the phone form factor is going to go away. I think it'll get lighter and and easier to carry, but I think people like having a screen to look at until we can kind of get to, you know, I don't know, something different than AI. Pin by humane.
Have you seen the AI Pin by I think the company called Humane? No, it's like a brooch or something that you put like a star, A Star Trek brooch. Basically, yeah, you're on the right track. So it clips to your, you know, your shirt somewhere and it's AI powered. So you talk to it, which immediately I'm like I'm not going to talk to my talk to my PIN. You know, I that's just not, I don't want to be in like a busy area and have people hear my conversations.
You don't want to go into a bike or bar and do that. Right, but the way it also works is IT projects essentially light onto your hand. So you can use your hand as like a screen to like read things and I guess theoretically type. Although I'm not sure exactly how that would work from an accurate accuracy standpoint. So this form factor of having some sort of device authentication on you I think is
here to stay. We've seen it with phone watch rings habit and now you've got this pin, which I can certainly see some use cases. I am not as much of A tech person I am and I love bleeding edge technology. No way. That's not what I'm about, but there are options out there. I think the phone form factors. You know something people don't mind, I think for now anyway. And it's easy and cheap. And if it it's more to the point that you lose the phone, you can replace the phone without losing
any functionality. Every couple years you can get a new one. The new technology, I think that it's a good fit for the way we operate. And they'll start folding on the Apple side. Hopefully soon. Hopefully Apple catches up with like a folding phone, because I really like that idea on the Android side. Takes us to the next question then. Thank you for introducing.
I think we're going to start to wrap the show up and we were kind of thinking, I was like oh, how do we end up showing a wider note and you came up with Android or iPhone as the question, I'll let you pose it. That's just I know that was the idea. So however you want to pose it, I will answer. Andrew, Andrew. Hey, Andrew. Android or iPhone? Both. I like both.
I am an iPhone user, but I like the Android OSI just find the app quality is not there yet consistently on the Android side compared to the iPhone or iOS side of things. But I really enjoy both, and I really hope Android catches up in some of those areas. Yeah, I'm definitely iPhone and I just, I don't see any reason to change. And then with the ecosystem, they keep trying you further and further in, and there's the green text, blue text thing, which is like, I just can't get over it.
I think with RCS next year, so was it rich Communication Service. I think this is something that Google and others had been kind of touting. It's sort of the cross-platform equivalent of what iMessage is. Apple has said they're going to support it at some point. We'll see how that ends up working. I'm sure they will figure out to have a a different color to keep iMessage blue and like RCS something else. I don't. Know purple or something? Yeah. I mean, the ecosystem pool is
strong. I mean, as much as I like both. I have iPhone, I have MacBook, I have iPad, I have Watch. Yes, they all work together, but I still like the Windows OS better. That's just me. All right. One more question. No, we have two more questions because we have to get to the potato question. Oh. You want to do the potato question. OK, well, you keep going. You keep asking the questions. All right, what newish TV show would you recommend for people
to binge over the holidays? You know, I don't, I don't know if I had an answer for it until immediately. This thing just popped in my head and it's on Netflix. Actually, I got two one's on Netflix. It's I think you should leave with Tim Robinson, which I think is hilarious. I mean, bunch of stupid sketch comedy type things, but so many good quotes and scenarios out of
that. And then my other one, which is way more niche, but I think really people should be checking it out, is a show called Game Changer Dropout TV, which is by the College Humor folks now. It's called Dropout. It's its own streaming service. You can find them on YouTube and you know all places like that. But the show I think is just really well done and it changes every show. So you never really know what the rules are until you start watching it, which I find entertaining.
It's like an improv stand up. It's like an improv comedy game show, if that makes sense. Yeah, so I've been watching C It's like a miniseries on Apple TV, plus that what they call miniseries, TV show. I think it's whatever. Series. I don't know. It's like two or three seasons, right? Yeah, it's like three seasons. It goes off to a very slow start and then it gets pretty exciting.
I don't know if I'm going to say it's like the best series I've ever watched, but definitely keep you busy and keep you entertained for whatever it is. So six shows per season. So that would be 18 episodes. And they're about an hour long, so 18 hours of entertainment. There you go. I I've only seen two episodes, I think, and I couldn't, couldn't get past those two and it was like just died off. There's just too much to watch right now.
It's off to a really slow start, but I always wonder with a show like that because it's so involved and so intricate, did someone write a book like The Fire and Ice books that led into was it Game of Thrones? It's very similar to Game of Thrones in terms of in a lot of terms, even though it's based in the future. It's like post human apocalypse. Like of I guess some disease ravaged humanity and took away eyesight and then there they are. I mean that's that's typical gym.
And they got a downer nobody can see. We're not ended. How would you like to be prepared, Jeff? If you were a potato? How would you like to be prepared? I'm going to stick with my original answer of when I first thought of this question. That is potatoes al graten because I want to be delicious and creamy, a little bit cheesy, and just something that I think a lot of people really enjoy. A well done dish of potatoes al graten yourself. But I do think you got the cheesy part down.
No, I, you know, I my answer is kind of a cop out because I I think of it from the same point. I'm like this poor little potato and now I've got to choose how I want to be killed. Do I want to be chopped up and thrown into boiling water? Hell no. I want to be in somebody's pantry, forgotten about and grow all those green things out of me. And then I have a humane owner who decides, you know, rather than throwing this thing in the trash, I'm going to bury it in my backyard and hope that it
grows into multiple potatoes. So it strikes me, and I'm not sure if you're gonna get this, but you're gonna. It sounds to me like you are trying to become the Three Eyed Raven of Potato, where that guy in Game of Thrones is like the original 3 Eyed Raven and he's like in the tree, he's like
stuck there. I imagine you is your whatever the Three Eyed Potato is and you're in the ground and somewhere along someone else is going to come along and take your position as, I don't know, Three Eyed Potato. Yeah, but we definitely thought about the question differently. You thought of, like, how would you bring enjoyment to people? And I thought of How could I preserve myself and feel the least pain? Yeah, you want a quick, clean
death, which I could appreciate. I think it just shows our personalities and our viewpoints and how we come at things. I think it's a really interesting question for that matter, because, you know, we bring it up from time to time and people are like, what? Like what are you talking about? You sound crazy. Well, some people are like, oh, that's a great question. And other people are like, you're weird. And both are true. OK, let's go ahead and wrap it up for 2023.
It's been another great ride for us. Thank you to everyone who has shared, supported, been on the show, you know, walked up and said hello, taking a sticker, even if it's politely, and then they threw it away later. All that stuff is helpful. Keep liking subscribing, sharing the show, and hopefully we'll be able to double again later and have the same conversation next year. Jim, how do you want to close it out for 2023? I just want to thank everybody who listens to the show and
makes this part of their week. And that's really all I have. I mean, I I do appreciate when people go out and leave the comments. Probably the thing I appreciate the most is when people just connect on LinkedIn and let me know that this show is something they're getting something out of. I mean, that just means so much to me and makes it makes me willing to put the time side every week to make this happen. So thank you. Right on. Thank you to everybody. That's it. That's 2023.
We're on the web, idacpodcast.com. We're on Twitter at IDAC Podcast. We're on Macedon at IDAC Podcast at Infosec dot exchange. Hit us up on LinkedIn, go like and subscribe on YouTube or your podcast app. And yeah, we'll see everybody in 2024. Have a great New Year's and we'll talk with everyone in the next one. You've been listening to Identity at the Center. We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate and
review and we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit the website at identity@thecenter.com and find us on Twitter at IDAC Podcast. See you next time on Identity at the Center.