This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with I am this is the go-to podcast. So if you're a beginner or an expert or anyone in between you've found your new home welcome to Identity at the center now your host Jim McDonald and Jeff Steadman Welcome to the identity of the sender podcast I'm Jeff and that is Jim. Hey Jim. Hey Jeff. How are you not so bad yourself doing great. Start on a webinar this morning from Gartner and its really,
really good. So the topic was the one page strategy and it kind of went over what the one-page strategy is and what it is. And the idea is to capture the essence, the the main point of the strategy not meant to replace the strategy, right? So, you know, in our experience we we've kind of done this in terms of we built, you know, the full identity and access management strategy for our clients and it could be a hundred slides. Then we create the executive presentation which may be 10
slides, right? So really captures the essence, but this is like pushing yourself even further.
How can you turn it into one slide and really the It I thought it was like kind of geniuses like the boil this strategy down into one slide it really becomes a conversation Kickstarter with any stakeholder population which is really what the executive presentation was is meant to be, which is kind of a Roadshow deck that you can adapt to the talking to HR or you're talking to marketing or you're talking to a another business unit or part of it. You know that's meant to
Kickstarter but still getting through 10 12 sides with somebody is not the easiest thing to do but if you can just throw one slide up throw it on the screen or have a printout, it just it's really effective. Communication tool. What do you think? Yeah, I am told her, right. I was wondering where that you sent me a OneDrive Linker, whatever one no link to check something. I was like, all right. Well I wonder where this came
from. Now I know what you were sitting on a webinar while was well, I was working gym on call. Well no I mean that I'm glad you said that because Fleet I was working too. Yeah, I think a big part of what everybody should be doing with some part of their week is sharpening. The saw I How you getting better, you know, this was my first exposure to the one-page
strategy or that concept. But you know, if you're not refreshing your thoughts and kind of, not only reinforced me what, you know, maybe challenging what, you know, however, you want to look at it but you've got to be doing something to get yourself better or not only going to just like stag me, you're actually going to get worse, they get left
behind, get left behind. So anyway, I thought this was a really effective tool that I'm going to try to To not only you know do four big identity strategy projects for clients but also make an effective tool for other efforts I'm working on. It's really like can I get this down into? Can I summarize this piece of work this strategy into one slide to make it kind of an
effective communication to see. Now you're talking my language because I think this is absolutely a skill that everyone should have is being able to distill You know, whatever their message is down to a brief concise summary story, something like that. I think there's this natural reaction to jam. A whole bunch of information as much as you can into, you know, one slide or one conversation or, you know, one email whatever may be and it becomes
overwhelming. And I think this is, this is a skill that I think a lot of people it doesn't come naturally to throw. It doesn't come naturally for me, you know, trying to, you know, make the topic.
A tional and relatable to whoever you're talking to if you can do that, you're going to go a lot further quicker because you're going to get buy-in from other folks that are out there, you know, there's a time to have a technical conversation and there is absolutely time to not have a technical conversation and you need to be able to flip between both, you know, with ease and make sure that you can communicate effectively.
That's right. Yeah. And you know, I was kind of thinking in terms of kind of a one Tragically, if you're going to make a one-page strategy for IGA, you might have things in there like on-boarding and off-boarding people, right? It's important part and it makes a lot interest folks from HR, for sure. Then you've got, like, the access recertification been you've got role-based access control. So each of those kind of speaks to different audiences and I
think pulling all that together. You now have the conversation. With the CIO. So they understand, okay, here's all. The stakeholders that are going to be interested that get benefit from this investment
that you're going to make. But I mean, see what I found is like the more senior people get in terms of like their level within the organization, the better you have to do to kind of like make sure your message right, I guess the point quickly because they don't have time to waste and if you're going to Try to run them through 30 slides before getting to the point like
you're going to lose them. I think it's a difference between data and a report and a message and a story and it's something you and I have done for years is like, what's the story as we're going through conversations? Especially when we're talking with key stakeholders Executives or things is because one thing to have the, have the data, the other one is, what is the message? And they're two different things. And, you know, I think Pro tip for all the folks are out there
trying to communicate with you. You know, people to get funding agreement by in whatever, maybe is make sure you understand the difference and that you're communicating the right message at the right time with the right people. Yeah, yeah. And and, you know, going back to this one pagers, it's not meant to replace the detail because you might be sitting out there. Like what kind of strategy is only one page, right? The idea isn't that it replaces having a detail strategies shows.
I got a simple I guess. Simple one-page I am. Strategy for you. Should we do I am one page? Yes. Alright. Next, right done. Okay. Yeah. Then you gotta start peeling back the onion but for sure right. I'm glad you mentioned Gardener because I think that's a good segue. I think by the time folks are listening to, this will be about a week out or so from the Gartner I am Summit that you and I are both going to be at. So we there onstage grilling Becky and Henry K on a variety
of IM topics. Get a lot of great questions from listeners to going to see some Trends and themes. So starting to incorporate that into sort of our plan of attack if you will for our conversation with those two. But I'm getting, I'm starting to get excited to start to become a little more real. It'll be cool to have, you know, familiar faces. Hopefully, you know, in the audience a little nervous. I think it's first time again kind doing this on and on such a big stage but I'm sure I'm sure.
We'll we'll crank out a good conversation. What do you think? Well, I think it's really interesting that we're up there. Kind of do Like simulating a podcast episode, right? And use the term, we're going to be grilling and then we need a plan of attack. I've only those worth so that was the message. I used the the words right? Or very specifically chosen for how I wanted to get that. I think you're picking up on it.
Okay. Well I mean you know typically the identity of the sender podcast is not Meet the Press right? I mean it's it's not softball questions. Any think we really get into good topics but I think we do it in a way that makes people feel comfortable listening and being a guest on the show.
So but I think what's really interesting is, you know, Henry Kay who's you know, the person who had this Grand Vision of doing this session really wants us to go in there and not have it be, you know, Bubblegum and lollipop. Yeah, I mean fair but You know, I'm specifically trying to come up with stuff and Source things that are not things that you would normally hear a Gartner analyst talk about or that they haven't answered like 7,000 times before.
So, something a little more unique, maybe more personal, right, things like that. I think we've got a good list right now. It's starting to, you know, crystallize a little bit. So, you know, we'll see how it goes. But the problem that we have Jim is we have way too much to talk about and we only have 30 minutes. It's and realistically we probably have like 25 minutes, right?
If you kind of think about closings openings and, you know, kind of, almost kind of filler stuff in between, so trying to, you know, cram as much as we would love to do it at 25 minutes, is going to be challenged my ideas. Like we have a little timer on the screen for like the slides. As I are going to spend like 30 seconds on this topic.
So like go right lightning rounds, you know, things like that to try and get as many questions as we can, you know, out and still have it be a viable discussion. I will be, will be a challenge but, you know, I think we're up for it. I don't think we should lose the one idea. I mean, I don't think we should do it or one idea. I think merits discussion, which was the hot wings, like, doing something where it's like, we get progressively hotter and hotter food that people eat.
But, you know, that makes me the very unpredictable. I think that adds a level of complexity to it. I would do it. I'm not a spicy, you know, food person. I think I would probably tap out at like, maybe medium hot sauce. I think I would be the first to go in that first. Voted off the island for the spicy food stuff, but I'm, yeah, I don't know what, we'll be able to put together on that, but I think that idea like was like, hey, let's bring the hot ones kind of idea to the
conversation. Like, I don't think we could have like Salon wings, but maybe it's, you know, you do a dab of hot sauce in some thing, or maybe eat something really sour or, you know, you take a drink. I don't think we'll be able to shots or anything, but that was kind of like one of the ideas that were playing around with item. Yeah, but see. I'm fine with it. So I know that our this episode is just going live right before
the conference. But if you haven't heard yet, we're doing an identity of the center community, meet up. So if you're a listener of the podcast you know reach out to Jeff for. I hopefully there's still some open slots, I mean registration or somewhat limited we had were renting a place which is called Corky's gaming Beast. Stroh and we'd love to get more people in. But I'm afraid that by the time this episode publishes this
message will already be void. But anyway if you're going to be at the Gardner conference at least reach out to Jeff and I would love to shake her hand and and thank you for listening to the podcast. Absolutely. And I have gotten some nice messages. They think you know we've had our recent new intro that people
are starting to hear. Now for the first few times as we've gone through Us. And there was a question that I got into my LinkedIn from Michael and he and I met, I think it was last year maybe a year before at authenticate conference and I'm going off memory. So sorry, Michael, they got the details wrong but he was asking because we had that if you remember we had this whole conversation or what's difference between digital identity and identity and access management.
Like so once if you want to thank and we were having a lot of different discussions around that we've been having this same discussion with like, even Sarah You know, recently in some recent podcasts and he asked a really a really deep question like in our intro, it talks about, you know, if it has anything to do with I am this is the place and he was wondering why we chose I am versus digital identity that context.
And I said well, you know, that's a very deep question, first of all, and it's not very deep answer. It was more on the lines of well, identity has a lot of other connotations and Things like that.
So that was kind of out digital identity to me, still felt like it was, I do not necessarily the industry term so rather than try to confuse people is like, let's just most people know, I, you know, whether or not they're using it in the right context, or how we mean it was kind of a separate thing was like, okay, well, I am a still like the go-to acronym for everything
that you and I talked about. So we kind of left it that, of course, you know, things change, That's The Power of, you know, opinions and things like that. We can always change it down the road. But as That was a great question. I mean if you think about some, you know I mean if you think about some of the yesterday we've had on the show folks like sarclarke and what she's working on a MasterCard, I don't think that I don't think of that is I am so Michaels. Probably right.
If if where he was going with it is like your shirt is really more about digital identities. Probably. Right. And it's also interesting that, you know, we didn't think of this question sooner. Like on our own, right? We listened to that clip for me, that's the first time. I've actually thought of that question. I'm like yeah we've listened to that, that clip of the new intro over and over again, and that didn't cross my mind wants sad for True, what we call it
identity at the center. We talk about identity access management digital ID. I mean I think we're taking, you know, I've taken a little bit of artistic license with it, right, rather than calling like I am at the center or digitally to the center. We just settle down Identity of the center and then we bring it around with like what are we talking about identity access you know things like that. So I don't know maybe will change in the future who knows?
But I just spent money on it. I'm going to get some usage out of it. We're gonna we're gonna keep the same clip. It is still good question. Yeah. Okay. So why don't we go ahead and get into our topic for today? Because we've got a really exciting actually conversation because this is something we've touched on a couple of times.
I think, maybe in past, or maybe, maybe even just once I think your gym your idea for this was the talk about sort of the open source world when it comes identity and access management and we have joining us today for the first time on the show Igor Ferran each, he's the co-founder at evolved IAM and want to welcome him to the show. So welcome to the show Igor. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So before we get too far along here. Why don't we learn a little bit
more sort of out? Your identity origin story? Can you tell us? How did you get? Into the identity space, your co-founder of all the amount to give you a chance to, I'm going to ask you about evolving in a second. But how did you get into identity? Is this something that you chose or did it choose? You. Yeah. Actually it tells me actually, I was a Java developer back then and actually one day I met my other co-founder rattled on someone cheek will lose already.
Several years into identity management back then and actually buddy took several years to actually As for myself, from a Java developer in tow identity developer and actually the situation that change that was actually economic downturn in 2008. And then we are looking for new opportunities for actually to actually search for to make the living. We had a lot of free time so we experimented with out of Technologies and well produce,
go to market. But finally, we settled with it point, and actually, So we found it. Level Dome around me point in 2011. So for people who aren't familiar with of all the, and the midpoint product that you guys have, this is an open source identity and access management technology. Can you give us? Sort of like the 32nd to maybe one minute elevator ride, you know, pitch.
We don't want to turn into a commercial but we're going to will talk about it. But, you know, for those who aren't familiar, introduced us to volume, yeah, actually I'll be stuck see dozens technology company and And as a pure open source company and we are still pure, open source tool today
actually we are open source. Is our mission is not only about the open call to. It's also we are all opening, all the ideas, all the documentation always base, we helped publish a book to the public. We are publishing also the methodologies to the public, and also all the integration connectors coding and so on. So you have through open source, believers. Actually, I would say, oh, we are also a leader in open
source. IGA because if you are watching the market guide, from Gartner or cooking, are there are no other open-source components there on other products are. So we are proud that we are a leader in open source. IGA, I would say also of, we are building meet one, as a platform to enable other solution to grow on top of midpoint, it's from these days. It's so our hours of our
partners are building codes. Ocean ultimate point for different market segments, actually, we are focusing on the midpoint needs of the product and the platform. And we have built a partnership Network on all on top of that, where we are covering called, 45 different countries with our
partners. Were actually partners are those that are doing the cells and actually, delivering the implementation projects actually background Or so I want to start the conversation around IGA at a very simplistic level and I'm going to bounce Jeff because I'm going to hear what his definition of this is as well. But in your words how would you define IGA identity, governance and administration.
Actually personally, I think it's very to engine question by beings that are all actually, you are looking for answers for answers actually who has access to RN Y, and you have different processes, bunch of processes around that to actually get those answers. Basically, you are managing and governing or managing identities, and governing the organization. And yeah, this is how I actually do. And actually, I have to talk to that organizations to actually get better idea.
We saw looking for both specifically in these IGA space, right? Yeah. Sounds like from your perspective, you're saying, well, it's less. How I Define IGA more, how my clients to find energy a Jeff? I'm wondering, you know, same question you, how do you define that ga Yeah, I mean I think you cover the like some of the use cases. I think about it from user lifecycle management. Basically, in the audit stuff that goes behind, it, can you do
you know who has access to what? And can you prove it? It is that access appropriate is appropriate. I think those are some of the main things. That's I think it's one of those glue technologies that sits behind the scenes and, you know, if it's, if it's working the way it's intended, it's almost invisible other than just maybe a front-end interface that is, you know, providing a window into, oh, here's Jim or hears it.
Igor. And, you know, they have these different types of access and here's all the receipts that we've kept indicating that as actually appropriate and was approved and those sorts of things. So I'm going to give my two cents here, I think of IgA, kind of like I think of I am we referred. I am as if it's one thing and I kind of always came from the perspective that it was two things.
Identity management like IDM and access management am so it got kind of shortened into one space identity and access management to me, identity, governance and administration or actually I think at one point We're calling the space iag and any Administration governance. The idea is identity Administration identity governance.
So I think the IDM identity management is really the identity Administration, the idea that you have this group of users that you centrally manage, you give them access and then you provision that out to Applications, then came along this identity. Governance space where the idea was. Well now we want to know who has access to what Not only did what did we provision out?
But what actually exists we pull all that together correlated to a single identity and now you know whoever's interested in knowing what access a person has has one place to go to know who has access to what so to me that's the identity governance but you know organizations need both they need that centralized control to me. That's the identity
Administration side. So what I found I think with the you know, IGA becoming so popular is that most organizations are doing some level of IgA now. So, the question that I wanted to ask you Igor is that the IGA Market has so many companies. That are delivering IGA Solutions, large Enterprises small, Enterprise different industry focuses are there still populations of organizations that are underserved? Yeah, I would say definitely.
Actually think this is one of the reasons we are here even after 10 years of actually existence and we are actually growing and I must say we are bootstrap company. So actually we have to make the living out of that actually of our product. Otherwise we've only been here. Anymore. So, we have been trying to identify, there are some market segments, some of them are Niche segments, that and also communities that are underserved. So I would say they'll be used
communities. Actually, those that are looking for Open Source Ocean. So actually, if someone type into Google open source, identity governance or identity management actually, we are on the first page. So that's actually great for us, then all there are. So there is a So companies that are not looking explicitly into open source, but actually for the benefits that actually, they would like to download download, try and play with a profitable
product before. They adopt it before, they prepare that the story and the message for the leadership in your company to actually move forward with the project. There are other underserved verticals like a small to medium Enterprises. And there is a also, a very specific group of very small car. Companies that are all working operating in or regulated environment. So, there are also under. So companies, I would say today because everyone is going for a
fork out solution. So, we are also focusing on those who customers that I would like to stay or either on-premise or get infrastructure as a service solution and would like to operate all the IGA that way. Actually, we are not leaving. Also the cattle of the, I'm not leaving that cloud customers behind. Because so our partnership network is building called The Cult ocean for a four different segments, new segments or geographical locations to actually serve serve.
Those needs. So I would say pretty much still a lot of customers that actually are looking for a four hours ocean and actually, we are actively working with those customers. They are helping us to build a product and actually thanks to that. We can expand to a Jets and Jason markets as well. So thanks to God. We are growing.
Yeah, that's interesting. So you mention small mid-sized Enterprises Jeff. I mean that's usually when we work with larger Enterprises and they are looking at IGA, it's usually to replace some system, whereas, a lot of times with small to mid-sized, especially smaller or entry into mid-sized, they're replacing paper processes, you know. So that's what I see a lot. I kind of feel like the the big holdup is either that or they just have finally gotten to the
point where it's like. Alright, we're at this breaking point. We need automation or it's, you know, what's held them back is really cost. I mean, i j Solutions can be pretty expensive. What's your take on that? Not me, it's, you hit it, right? I think there's that natural inflection point where it's like, okay, we're done taken faxes and we're going to start, you know, doing things for an automation standpoint. Do you build it? Do you buy it and if you build
it, what are you building it on? Is going to be something that's already. Sort of pre-existing, you know, open source Solutions, sort of like, you know what? What Igor and evolving to bring to the table or I think tends to happen more often. To this, you know, some developer goes off and build some, you know, crazy system on their own and now it becomes like, hey you just, you know,
you just built an IGA platform. If you're all windows already products out there are things like that because you were trying to save money or whatever maybe the next thing you know it's ten years later and this solution that was designed to be like a six-month stopgap has now, you know, become so ingrained that it's very difficult to remove the Enterprise or upgrade or maintain or anything like that. So you know, really where the working with the client.
And they had a And this was a client called the merge remember the merge. Yeah. And we're going to get to kind of like, I think education right probably makes a lot of sense of it. Probably talk about that was partly conversation, but I'm even thinking of, you know, there's one client I had way back in the day that basically built and IGA platform on the Mainframe and this is a full-featured system. Like, it was, you know, sale point before sale Point like, 20
years ago, right? That that sort of, you know, platform so and they were Really struggling with. How do we move off of this? We don't have as many people who are, you know, trained up on the Mainframe. Those folks are starting to retire and it's kind of like the coal Bowl. You know, people they were left behind and then all of a sudden they're not demand again because
no one else knows their stuff. Yeah, I kind of feel like the way a lot of commercial software gets built is that somebody has a small consulting firm. They built a system for a client. And then they say home, you know, now we know how to build a system for managing and Identities, let's turn into a commercial product.
I don't have any proof of that except what I've observed, but, you know, back onto this IGA topic, you know, one of the things that I don't know, I've kind of struggled with is that Gardener, I think considers IGA as mature to the point where they no longer publish the magic quadrant and I struggle with that because I see a lot of stuff happening. But, you know, let's just take for granted that it is a space. That's reached a certain level of maturity.
My question too. Eager is how do you innovate in a space? That's reached that level of maturity, I'll throw Mark has matured. That's what we are feeling that actually adoption locks box
behind. So there is still a lot of opportunities for for actually adoption and actually deployment of IgA Solutions and actually there are Any studies that show actually out there from Big corporations, or independent organization that actually are mentioning even the companies are struggling even with basic processes for IGA. So actually, and for us, it seems that actually the common problem for every organization is collect data are not clean enough to actually to deploy the solution.
I mean, the day. A time I didn't digital identities are not good enough to actually, to actually start adopting a product or a solution defined a solution. So actually, this is one of our Focus that we see that Innovation will happen that. Actually, we need to deploy the product with any environments of start working with that environment. Maybe start marking the identities, to actually do not touch those four for some time and actually equally for them identities.
Marcus to in the new can Cardboard need identities. And and this kind of stuff. So we see a lot of innovation bill on happen on the data site in this. In this case, it's identities. Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, Innovation coming in many different ways. I think, faster time to value is certainly one. I think things like, how do you, you know, get to the point of having cleaner data, I mean, that you start getting value right away from that.
So, so that might be a transition to my next question, which is really what are some of the biggest problems that organizations face that in your in your experience? What is the biggest problem that they face in? In IGA we are strong Believers that we have to do something
about that. Identity style, quality of the data and not to Ohio actually garbage in garbage out and actually me out we are moving coal or are actually product to actually Would be very effective to actually start working with
any identity. They copy, we will get in our environment and actually, especially we have to be very smart as far the effective about that because we are open source and we have to bring value to the customers as soon as possible to get the subscription because we are living out of the subscription and we have very strong kind of motivation that our customers will be Successful as soon as possible.
Yeah, I think garbage in garbage out is that's that's been the same problem for the past 20 years so I can even add much of that. Last question is area of IgA which is around something. We've had some guests speak on the the podcast about which is this idea of convergence, the idea that IGA access management privileged access management Cloud infrastructure entitlement management or kind of, kind of converge into a single platform. Not sure if you agree with that
or not. My question to you is, you know, what is the IGA market look like? And, you know, five years down the road, ten years down the road. Yeah, actually, I partially agree with that some solution built or actually matching tool angle because offering, but actually for that, for example, for Access for ssl's and access management, we see there are so many He products out there and I reorganization using something
different. So we rather see that actually it's a complementary products to IGA and we see that there will be integration so be prepared all interfaces for this kind of integration. And I will thanks to open source. We are able to have the documentation, how to integrate, different SSO, sorbets point. So it's working great for us of then for the convergence, for L
cloud. I'm not sure what will happen in the next couple of years because there are also strong movements that some organization are moving out of the cloud. Like to die on premise infrastructure so we will see what will happen in the coming years and there is another moment I would say we see that some thanks to a I break through
and check the GPT actually. This is working very well for us because we are keeping all the knowledge out there for free in the public domain and one can't rent a given the chat CP.
Modell to actually own our data and actually this model can answer and help engineers and developers to actually match to that point midpoint much faster and I would say they're the some Innovation will happen there, you know, in the beginning it will help you to actually you don't have to Google for for to go for some, some simple answers but you will ask gbt but your I still say I will train more then I can imagine that if you would
like to connect some system that is not so common, it will extract the actually type of protocols from the ideal extract desk map for from the system. It will take the inspiration from the existing connectors called bill, which we have actually tensor for collectors out there that are in the open source domain. And actually, it will propose you or code will be your pair program. To develop a new connector with you. And actually, it was speed out of effort and expect special.
It will help you with polar protic plate configuration for any Open Source Ocean and actually help you or even to write the integration code. So that's actually great and it's working great for us. And yeah, I'm happy about that. Yeah, I'm fascinated by the recent advancements with the natural language processing. Assessing the AI, right? Jackie b. T Lambda things like that.
It, I'm excited by it. I'm a little disappointed that my idea for a chatbot like, 10 years ago, as like a front end for an IJ platform. Was something that I just never pursued because I can certainly see the option. I was like, you're totally right. I was like in, you know, in a decade two decades, whatever it might be, people probably won't be writing code, they will be asking a, i, to do something for them.
And behind the scenes, the magic is You know, taking the taking the intent of the request factoring together, you know what? That package looks like and then delivering. Yeah, here's what your integrated looks like, right? Hey, we need an integrator for. I don't know. I'm is an OCTA to be able to do some sort of, you know, chapter management for nonprofit, you know, sort of exist today. But not really like here. Let's Cobble something together. They having having that as a
functionality, is cool. And we'll certainly, I think accelerate Deployment methodologies and things like that. When it comes to the open source side of the world, though, we're dealing with models in the, in the AI space that are not necessarily open source, right? There are the property of certain organizations, I guess, how do you balance that open-source sort of mentality. Versus, you know, maybe you will might be proprietary AI models or other parts of the product. Yeah.
Actually, there are some generate a eyes that actually Help you tune your configure, the midpoint, for example, or actually write some borrow boilerplate code. But actually, there is still a space for Innovation to build AI inside the product. Like, for example, I cannot imagine changing particular help you to actually read role mining
for your organization. So it's so specific problem that you will still need to have a, some kind of statistical model or a our machine learning to actually have it.
That there are also other issues So like, for example, if you help banjo Factory, boost that you call Accounts or identities and need to correlate those that actually, this is a specific problem that actually you need some kind of recommender system with feedback loop and building to the product where you actually need that to actually improve over the time to actually see or speed up the correlation and clean up your
data. And there are also some some other ways where you can improve and help protect specific AI actually we are Working Klein, experimenting Covetous, felt kind of statistical models already. And yeah, we see there. There will be benefits for for
the clients as well here. So you got me on the side track, where the AI, we've got a joke, we've been calling this, a, i at the center for the last few weeks because it keeps coming up. I think it's just where we're at. For me, you know, hey, as of, you know, February and March 20 2003, this is this, what's happened to be in those kind of a, the Zeitgeist I want to Pivot back to the open. Source question because I think this is something that's relatively unique, right?
Yeah. In especially, in the IGA Space is having an open and open source IG a product, I guess, how do you define what open source means? And I guess what makes the software open source, is it the the software itself is it? The documentation is that the, the, the openness of the, the coding to allow people to pick it apart and take the parts that they want? How do you define it? Yeah.
Actually the pants who you are actually for some kind of developer or Engineers, it's all open code and a principal I documentation of methodologies. Knowledge base is very important but for, for some other, so that all open as in, that'll be in the way that actually you can or try it downloaded configure, it yourself and actually move forward when you are ready for some their directs, you know, this Um, typical open eyes inside, eyes, actually, increasing Innovation or
security. But actually I have to agree with the increased security like, for example there is get out that is scanning the well this all the source code, the repository is actually the dependencies that salon and actually helping you to actually avoid security issues before something bad happens. Like, you know, you all if you are using some some library that It's already than Factory some security problem. You know, you can upgrade and you don't even have to log into the code.
So that that's actually great. We see, it's actually happening. And thanks to many Open Source. Ocean. Even get habit. Since improving very well in these open domain, and I would say, actually very important part of Open Source is also Community. It's actually can be well different. Cohort dot are strengthening that Edie ideas are following and actually, there is a collaboration. So, I would say communities, crucial, part of the open
source. Yeah, definitely gives the strength right as you have multiple people looking at it and picking apart, make sure that it's the strongest product possible and is as clean as possible to from a coding perspective. I think there is also, and I think this is a misprint misconception. Is that open sources Free gym is famous. I don't know who said it originally, but I'll tribute at the gym is free. Is it a puppy?
You know, there is a lot of caring feeling that sort of, you know, goes along with it from a support perspective or maybe, you know, other components, I guess, what's your perspective on, you know, is open source free and I guess what's free? And what's not free when people are thinking about, hey, yeah, maybe open source is the way you want to go because we think will save money or maybe what their assumptions are really are what the way they should be. About it.
How do you how do you portray that? Yeah, that's a very good question actually. I would say open source was never free and open source has gone a long ways actually in the early days out of people helped paid by their health for actually for maintaining the open source but it has changed over the last decade and I would say, open source has child different structure of expenses. So sometimes you are saving some, some effort or money or whatever, but actually the expense is always there.
Someone has to pay the salaries so pay for for for the time of the people and I would say our story of. So we have decided that you can do whatever you want with our product but actually the breaking point is any actual you would like to work with us, spend our time And actually did that there is a strong boundary that actually you have to pay for the services in form of flap subscriptions.
Move what type of organization typically does the busted open source, because I think Jim and I kind of hid it earlier is the education space. Seems to be pretty big on open source. We see things like grouper and shibboleth, and sort of things like that. That's out there as well, that are very unique to those spaces. I think there's a natural tendency to shift towards that when it comes to those. Those sorts of Institutions is
do you agree with that? Are there other, you know, organization types or Industries are verticals that tend to see better success with an open source approach versus of? That's maybe more commercial based Yeah. Actually I mentioned already some some market segments Bill. Well they're actually all open source these much more successful and I will dad. Also there are all very large organizations that are having very unique needs and actually one of the benefits to actually go for.
Open source is also possibility to influence their Alma and actually all that way it's working. The product is working for these very large organization as as they need and there is Another benefit of for very large or identities sites that all open source product is scaling much better from economic point of view. So there and there's another benefit for them.
And I would say these days, I'll actually, you know, when we were starting level, we have seen a lot of struggles, even in the purchasing department, how to actually buy the open source and so on actually, but all during the covid actually. I don't know what happened but the adoption of Open Source also improved our load. I've actually they are not this question that were before and actually if organization is so called a Open Source, Ocean is working for the for the
organization. They just find a way how to actually purchase the subscription. So if you think rolling, that's interesting that you felt like you saw. It sounds to me like you saw an uptick in the open source world when covid hit I wonder if that was because more people had time to spend at home you know kind of learning it. Or I guess what do you attribute that to other than it was just the right place right time. I don't think it's cause he's related each out.
Still. When we realized that actually it's happening even in the IJ space and yeah actually I would say it's not only about the IGA actually. It's so age of Open Source outside so that there are also Studies done where you can find that actually Solutions and product Builds on open-source are actually, you know, you know progressing and scaling very well. If you are you wanted to just go back to one thing that you stated that you see some organizations moving back away
from the cloud. I think the overall trend that that I'm seeing any way is the opposite but I'm wondering what what are you seeing that? As Is making you say hmm. Some organizations are actually backing away from and I'm not sure if you meant like Cloud as in software as a service or infrastructure as a service or bit of both.
Actually, what I'm seeing, these actually infrastructure as a service itself or some organization needs to looks expensive to operate in this environment and actually when you wake up from a infrastructure-as-a-service then maybe you'll back up also from software as a service. So We will see. Actually, maybe that's that will be a trend maybe not but actually it's not so important for us. We still have actually other segments where we can grow and actually, yeah, we are happy.
So you're even really generous with your time and when I start to get things wrapped up, I think you're the first guest that we've had on from Slovakia. So first of all thank you for, you know, for taking time in your day to or maybe in your evening at this point, to be part of this.
I had a question around and people know me I like to eat and we like to talk about food on this and I wanted to ask about the Slovakian and if it's a dish or meal and you'll help me with this and please forgive my pronunciation but brings of a house key, can you explain what that is and educate Jim in myself and others? Yeah yeah yeah actually brings over Houston. He's a very national dish in Slovakia and basically, it's very traditional meal taxol is
made out of potatoes. Like actual, you are eating very small, no cheese with a cheese, but this cheap cheese is called greens out and it's very special. It's very soft, and actually you are drinking. That with Gene chizik jeans jeans, Jean cheetah. Very traditional drink, also very specific. And that zika is made from hitting sheep's milk as well. So it's kind of like I think the idea is you have nothing goes to waste this sort of part of this dish, right?
Yeah, exactly. So is it, you know what, it wasn't clear to me is that alcoholic, is it, fermented as are things added to it, or is it more of a milk base type, you know, non-alcoholic beer and it's non-alcoholic beverage? Well, they do well nothing's perfect. So you actually okay, you'll candy you can eat the brains of a house key with bacon. It's very, very tasty.
I was going to ask because I think you mentioned, like, the Meucci I've heard like on Onions, I've heard chives, I've heard bacon, obviously the the cheese itself and what I hear, you're something is like a national dish. I guess is it popular with locals or is this something that's like, yeah, it's a national dish, but locals,
really, don't eat. It is, I guess how popular is it, you know, to actually eat it as a Saluki Yeah, either you love it or hate it actually I love it so I'm eating that pretty often. Okay Jim. You're in Augusta Georgia. Any native I guess dishes to your area of the woods. Yeah. So they have something in the South and I don't know if it's native to Augusta called pimento cheese. I've never tried it so I don't want to criticize it too much but it doesn't look like something.
I'd like to eat. Eat. Of course we have like soul food and lots of fried chicken. I think that's common across the South. But one thing because I'm going to Gus though home of the Masters Golf Tournament, something that's famous that they do at the Augusta National. The the home of the Masters is they still sell sandwiches for $1 and there's our egg salad sandwiches. Another food like to me that just eggs, I don't think make good sandwiches But that's just
that's just me man. I mean, you know, when I was over in Holland for a while, they put eggs on sandwiches, like hard-boiled eggs which it's only one step from exiled, right? It's just missing the mayonnaise. But I don't know. I just it's just not the kind of dish that strikes me as something I'd like. So I haven't tried them yet. A $1 egg salad sandwich in the middle of Georgia. Heat does not sound to me like a very refreshing.
Well, here's the thing, I must be a money loser because I mean they're not going to you know they get to the college's thousands. Yeah right exactly they get thousands of dollars for you know? Coming to the event. And you know, it's it's more or less what Augusta or semesters all about is tradition. And so at some point they started the tradition of $1 egg salad sandwiches. I'm sure became a money loser but they kept doing it anyway. So that that part that aspect, I
find pretty cool. I just wish it was something that, you know, I'd want to eat. We mentioned the potential cheese that's definitely something that South as A recent North Carolina transplant. I see it everywhere. I do not care for it so I'm not on that bandwagon at all. Have you lived in Chicago area for, you know, 40 years or so?
You know, it's Pizza. It's hot dogs and Chicago style, it's bratwurst Polish sausage, you know, kind of things like that, you know, I'll leave North Carolina and I think of barbecue, man, like, pulled for, haven't found a really good barbecue place yet. We've had this conversation. I'm a little bit disappointed with Barbecue that I've so far experience. Generally speaking in North Carolina there was at one spot outside of Charlotte.
I mentioned but I found better barbecue in Chicago, so I'm going to throw the gauntlet down. If you've got a recommendation for Asheville North, the North Carolina area for barbecue. Hit me up because I am on the hunt. Someone else will have to hit you up on that. But I lived in the Charlotte area for about eight years and in Mooresville, which is the headquarters of NASCAR there is a barbecue place, there is just
fantastic. I would go there you know every week every other week and pulled pork sandwiches were always my order. Well it's so versatile, right? You've got pork, you got beef, you've got chicken. I mean you could eat barbecue every day the week and I have the same you know? The same dish. That's right. That's right. And coleslaw. Do you like coleslaw? Nope, my wife, does I hate it? So in North Carolina they have like those yellow cold. Slaw.
I think they put mustard and I think maybe it's egg yolks. That doesn't make it better. That makes it worse. It makes a really much better. It's wonderful. And they put her in a 2-0. See now it's just getting stupid and crazy. Igor, do you have any thoughts on barbecue? Actually my brother is doing great barbecue so if you'll visit so bakiyev and a, so just give me a call and we can have a good barbecue together.
Alright, now we're going to take, take the podcast on the road like that would be very cool. All right, we're gonna go ahead and wrap it up for this week Igor. Thank you so much for spending time with us. Really appreciate you taking time out of the day. Jim for yourself as well. Always appreciate it. We always have good conversations. You can visit us the show. Self online. Where idac podcast.com?
We're on Twitter at IDC podcast. I'll have some links in the show notes as well so that people can check out and connect with Igor on LinkedIn. You check out of all the M which is e vo L ve you m.com. So you can learn more about what they're doing you know, in the open source World specially with the midpoint product of the IGA side of things.
And I forgot to mention we are also on Macedon at idac podcast at infosec that exchange and hopefully we'll have Some familiar faces friendly faces at the Gartner Summit here in a week or so. And I don't forget to hit that like And subscribe button and we'll go and leave it there and talk with everyone in the next one. You've been listening to Identity at the center.
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