You're listening to the identity of the center podcast, this is the show that talks about identity and access management and making sure you know who has access to what let's get started. Welcome to the identity of the sender podcast, I'm Jeff and that's Jim. Hey, Jim hey Jeff, how are you? Not so bad yourself. Good. Hey chilling here in the podcast, studio recording our last session at the Gartner.
I am Summit. The one thing I'll be happy about is that won't have to look at the plastic tree anymore. I thing looks like it's on. Its last legs. It might not even be a plastic tree. Might be a real tree. That is dying. I'm not sure. And this is like this one leaf. It's like sticking straight out. Almost like a cowlick. Think I'm not sure how that's happening, but I think they put it in here when they built the hotel.
Well, we should. But like, your view is looking out the window at least some degree you can see out there so I didn't staring with them on or something. I'm staring at thermostats on the wall and that's pretty much it and I see something weird. One is set to 69, which I certainly had set that 266 earlier.
And the other one looks like it's off, which that was definitely set to 66. And I know why I'm a little bit warmer than I normally am. Yeah, I know I haven't been I'm complaining about the cold, but I just don't touch them. Jeff, I know better than to mess with you or air conditioning. This is true. This is, this is my Hapa in. This is my soapbox don't take away. My AC, I'm paying for 3, AC units. I'm getting 3 AC units as the way. I look at it. Yeah, the bathroom in the other
room is cold. You, you're not even going in there. That's true. All right. So we're at the Gartner conference, kind of the topic for this show is going to basically recap the final day, the whole conference itself, Shadow to our some again for hooking us up with Sweet. See here, these nice relatively quiet environments and you know, good audio. Additionally, the sweet sweet, there it is. So yeah, shout out to our son for that. Thank you so much for that.
We've brought in our friend, Pierce chakraborty. He's our fellow identity nerd, identity professional. He's been on the show before he was with us for episode way, back in the day. Number 86, welcome back first. Okay, thanks for having me again. So, we've worked together for about a year and a half or so and we're all in the same field. So we're all Friends here. But how was the conference for you?
Because that's what I think's, let's start with their like the today's the final day, you know, to be transparent. I've been in the sweet all day. Everybody had a chance to do anything other than that. So I missed, basically the entire day, what happened today, what should, what should people know about? So I think in general, the conference is a good starting point because Before covid hit. Right. This was like the first time I think everyone got to see a lot of people in the last.
Let's say three years. So the conference for me was a lot of good catching on people. I just haven't seen in a long time especially in person but today's sessions were pretty good in the content. It was a lot more focused on kind of the wrap-up and the future trends of identity and they make sense, right? It's all theoretical but today was I would say like Most content less stay out of the other day. Is Tuesday was packed.
That was a yeah, that was it, that was a day but I thought overall, the conference was great. I really got a good chance of see people. I just haven't seen like, you guys, we've never met in person before. Like we were talking when originally, which was crazy to me, so it was great to go ahead and do that. A lot of good vendors to Identity changes, as you guys both know.
So seeing all those new vendors and all those and then getting set up with product demo, Moe's and kind of staying ahead. I think that was all good stuff. Yeah, I had a fantastic. I mean I've been tearing my horn about how much I've had a good time at this conference, how much I've learned and when they say what I've learned, it's like there's information out there, there's ideas out there and you combine them with kind of what your framework for how you look at.
I am already is and how you can better serve your clients I think one thing. What we do, right? We were like, I am generalist. I would say are filled with focuses on strategy and roadmap development, so we need to know Jim. Now, as much as part experts on everything that ever happened, we're supposed to capture the right people. Expect that, well, edit that out, but I think the takeaway right is that, you know, there are some people who expect the roadmap to be like, very
tactical project plan. And I've never thought that's what is it, does have to be actionable, especially in the short term, you have to have, you know, some specific chunks that you're taking on, but as the roadmap gets further out as to be a little more Visionary. And so that's what you get out of a conference. Like, this is like, what's the vision? Where's I am heading. It's not just where your organs. Now, obviously, your organization's roadmap has to drive you to results that the
business can achieve. And The business can experience but has to be someone Visionary as well. Right? And so I think that's what we get. When we come to one of these conferences and new ideas of vision, for where things are going in the industry. And then we're what we can do with, what we do is bring that to our clients, roadmaps and strategies combine that with our real-world experience, but also kind of having a vision of what's next to come and cutting
through that. At chaff, that's out there, right? I think we're right now, you know, you come to a conference, you're hit with a whole bunch of different vendors. They're all the greatest things. So I slice it since sliced bread. They all do zero trust and they're all web three and they're all decentralized. Super, super duper. You know, things how much of that is actually real and will
actually work in the real world. I think that's where the value for, you know, people like us. We're trying to cut through that and what is real? What is actually going to work for customers? And the answer typically is Few different answers and ask you to the Heart. Part is yeah there's several tools that could fit what's the
right fit. I think having the opportunity to talk with you know vendors, whether there are services or you know certain implementation Partners or middleware, that kind of glues different parts of identity together, right? How does that puzzle fit together? Which I think is really cool and, you know, I didn't get as much time to spend in Vendor Hall as I would have liked to. There were certainly several vendors that I was trying to hit and just couldn't but it was for good reason.
You know it was hallway conversations a so you opened up with was seeing people, you haven't seen in Forever. You and I work together and, you know, three of us work together for a year and a half and until now, well, actually until a couple days ago, you were just a little square in a zoom window or a team's window, you know, up until that point. I wasn't sure if you're real, you could have been virtual for all, I know, but here you are, right?
And that's the same thing, you know, I keep going back to the story of, you know, Rosa we worked in the help desk at Walgreens like 20 years. Like, literally 20 years ago and, you know, she joined the identity team and now she's here as a manager of identity for a company, and it's great, right? I haven't heard or seen from her and forever.
But, you know, it's those types of connections and being able to see people in the space that that I personally find a lot of value with them, you know, I'm willing to certainly sacrifice like a scheduled demo or a scheduled session to have that of running or that organic conversation, any favorites highlights things that you kind of Like wow, that was really kind of thought provoking or really interesting.
So to from a vendor perspective, there's just a lot of newer vendors that seem like they're coming out of the Woodworks. But there's identity has a Trends and, you know, historically there was 45, that seem to run a lot of identity across small cap, mid-cap large cap and now that's clearly not the case. I just go into Adventure Hall and seeing all those boots were first opinion. I had those that's a lot of talking I have.
To put a lot of people had, which is weird because some of those people who are company a or not a company, b, c d stuff. I was going in, like, oh, a long time. No see, blah, blah blah. So I thought to your point, one of my biggest highlight seen every one person. Sure. But seeing the vendor Hall actually getting some more in-depth conversations because clients count them all three of us to be experts in stuff that has not been around for that long.
That was pretty eventful, especially with the smaller companies, I would say from a session, Russian perspective. There were a lot of good sessions out there for sure. Let's in my personal favorite. There's one on cloud Security on privilege and pleasure to account management. And cloud is complex. There's there are for any non-human cloud-based accounts. There is a lot of complexity goes into how they're managed because traditionally 10 years
ago is impossible manageable. So there was a more technical conversation focused on how Works. And what can't you do? What can you do that? Frankly was a good indication of why I think Gartner is I'm should be is a mix between. It wasn't like a doll hairs. Why their knees imported? I know. I know me, personally, I don't like conferences like that because it's of course we know identities important, right?
We were in spend all this money to be here, but that one was probably a good balance of true Technical and true outcomes where I felt empowered to kind of get what they were saying. Do some independent research and then help my clients kind. Of see the light of day. Jim, what about you? Yeah. I mean, a lot of what you said, they're really rang true and I want to jump on the piece around Cloud management because here's the scenario.
I talked to somebody said, hey, I saw solution today and they'll go and identify accounts, and it will analyze the accounts and say, hey, this account has a role. That it hasn't used them 60 days, so maybe you should remove it. I said, That's great. I mean that is part of the solution, right? That's the detective control to go back and see what over provision to counsel you have, but they ask yourself the question. Why did that account have those
accesses to begin with, right? We could have. So it's after 60 days over and over provision state. So, Now, will you find other Solutions those, hey achieved least privilege or some kind of role based access control so that you eliminate the, or reduce the chances of that happening. That's great. So those are kind of even if you just took the human account scenario, then you have the nonhuman account.
So what I think when it comes to Cloud, access management is, there's really not one solution out there that is snap your fingers going to cover. All of these preventive and detective controls, you need to have a framework that addresses that issue holistically. And I find that's true not only with with Cloud but also with several other areas of I am management and I don't want to go back to something that Jeff said which was talking about zero trust.
And we talked to somebody today about identity threat detection response again, kind of Frameworks and they're starting to become punchline party jokes. Right. I go, yeah, I guess your zero trust which would be terrible if that's where we end up because these are legitimate Frameworks and legitimate approaches is like what if you talk to a
client now? And they say oh yeah well we're fine because we have a firewall and it blocks all the, you know, basically the only people who get to that service that doesn't have authentication or has basic authentication or our employees and we trust all that maybe like, oh my goodness, like Did you fall asleep? 10 years ago and just wake up like you know that so zero trust is very serious, right?
I know, I'm preaching to the choir, but I legitimately think we potentially have the opportunity that or the, the risk that that becomes a punch line. I think that's part of, I think it's part of our jobs is to cut through all that crap and I chuckled to myself because I, you know, I open up The app and I will not name and shame but this thing pops up and says oh, you know we're zero, we're the the zero trust thing, really? I mean, no, you're not.
I mean, frankly, put it that's, you know, that's that's the real part of it is there's so much overuse of these buzzwords 0. Trusts, I'm, we talked with had Kovacs today, from Silver for it and that'll be a future episode that we are. And I asked him the same question. Question. You know what what happens when these terms become overused? And you know we talked about the RSA conference. Good news zero trust is solved because literally every product at RSA conference earlier.
This year was a zero trust solution for something. I feel like we're headed that direction with other things like I TDR. I'm hesitant surround like the Keem. Space Cloud infrastructure. Entitlement management it is a valuable space and thing that his beak needs to be solved for. But a lot of these Beans are just slapping marketing terms on it and not really explaining. What is they do or how they fit into the framework, because that's what it is. It's a framework.
It's not a product that you buy themselves, something and I get concerned when I see that out there because if you don't know any better, you're going to fall for that. And then you're gonna be very disappointed when you get a fraction. So I thought it would fix all my my problems and just that's not the way it works. How about lowlights, anything and I don't want to name and shame but were there things that you are surprised by that like
wasn't represented or that. You felt like you just don't agree with. I started off right there with the whole buzzword Bingo. Yeah anything that you thought Pierce? Well first my flight was delayed for 10 hours so that is low light so that was probably the biggest little way I could have asked for but I think from a conference perspective, I would assume that it was Mostly focused on there was a little bit of buzzword bingo going around throughout the whole conference.
And I think, you know, I think I said this earlier, but the telling a bunch of people who are there. Any experts why Danny is important to me seems like just a waste of time and again, not to name any names anything. I think it was interesting to watch the different levels of complexity that was told during the sessions and whenever we had an instance of Of a session that was more focused on what I would call marketing. Then true identity and topics
and true thought leadership. Those are what I would call my lowlights. I might have an hour left three of them so but at the good news is our gardener, there's multiple sessions at any given time so you can go in and out and there was those presentations. You could also do, I do, is just take a bunch of photos to win the whole thing. Well, I think it's part of the flexibility to, you know, this. I think you may not have been the target audience for those types of things.
Right. The messaging in a conference like this has to be relatively Universal where there's something for everybody people in this room. We have decade like, literally Decades of my dining experience. Do we know how why am I Den is important? Of course. So that's probably not for us, right? I think we are a little more jaded, right? We're kind of trying to get past the the vendor speak, and the double-talk, and things like
that. You know, I think from I'll go next and I'll pass it over to you Jim, you know, from a, from a surprise perspective. I don't know if I was necessarily surprised at anything other than a positive surprise so and I called a low light, I loved the Keynotes, the first one with with Mary, I'll butcher named Meg Lyon I think is something like that. Probably not sorry Mary but she gave the opening keynote and it was so good because it was not
focused on technology. It was not focused on you know, marketing. It was on the human being, you know, how have people Been coping over the last couple of years, we just went through a pandemic that was seismic for a lot of people. Right loss, anger grief. All those emotions have been pent up for a while and you get to the conference like, this animal. And I said this earlier in another, you know, recording that we did. They felt like the, the environment here was almost celebratory.
Like, oh my gosh. We're actually in person for the first time in, like, 2 to 3 years, maybe for some people, and addressing those types of things is was a pleasant surprise. I I think for me I think the other one was the Storyteller one with the guy from Pixar and that's that was why things like that. Like for me I was a takeaway it's a good reminder to be able to be our to articulate and understand the story you're trying to tell. I know the three of us have gone
through this process. As we've worked with our clients in the past is what is the story you're trying to tell? Do people understand what it is you're trying to say and how do you actually become a more effective Storyteller? When you are trying to deliver an identity strategy, Or deliver a project plan and understanding why things need to be in the certain order that they are, right? Even the question that we all seem to know is like, why is
that any important? People are still asking that question. So we need to be able to adapt the answer to the audience, and I think that was I was, that was a good surprise for me. I like that a lot Jim. What about you? I'm going to mention two items and so, the first one was Thinking back to The Gardener's conference, we were out a couple of years ago. There was a A night. So my low light is around the nights out. So Monday night and Tuesday night, to me, it's gotten very tribal.
So it's like, hey, what dinner or event are you going to, or what set of events are you going to and each vendor whether their technology vendor or Consultants or whatever? They they try to get their groove and they go and do their event. Whereas, and then it's up to everybody to try to figure. Okay, which try them might going to be a part of tonight. I remember a couple years ago, we went to one is that Dre's Beach Club, so it's really cool to be here with, right? Yeah.
And it was the Better Together story of like Southpoint, OCTA and cyber-ark, right? And if basically boils down to like, have you ever heard of sampling? Achter or cyborg? The answer was.
Yes, you can. Come now, I guess, in a way that was tribal to write because then think of all those other vendors who weren't included They could have kind of package something up to and I just kind of felt like hey there was an event where you had hundreds of people all going to the same place and kind of achieving the same thing because we're all looking for this network opportunities and the ability to have something to do. It get some cool experience and
I kind of felt like I don't think there was much evidence of that happening. Maybe I just wasn't aware of it but I got invited to a lot of it different events and but it just seemed like it was more small smaller events, single single firm kind of thing. So I I think if we could get to your driving toward more bigger events that people could just get to really Network and meet each other and and still have them experience, that would be great.
You just want to see Carrie Underwood like you saw it Microsoft conference a few years ago. Yeah, well I mean definitely would would do that again. And I was hoping everyone, you know, you bring up an interesting point, and I think that competition for time, right? We all have people that were you're here for different reasons, right? If you're on the business side, a vendor, you know, Consulting.
Whatever it is. You're trying to find clients potential clients, you know, make networking opportunities, those two things. And, you know, try to invite them to your thing, everyone else is doing the same thing, right? So if I am, you know, A civilian, let's call it, you know, you're in your real identity person and you're not, you know, our decision right now. If you're in the real world, right? You are being pulled in like
eight different directions. And that's even just assuming that you're even open to going out. I know that when I go to conferences, you know, the past it was like, I'm at the conference. The last thing I want to do is spend another six hours with people. Yeah, I want to decompress so it's I empathize with those folks who struggle with that and
it's taken away. For me, personally, it's taking efforts To break out of that a little bit and to try and, you know, be more networking and focused sore social even and just saying hello and things like that. But you know, that is a challenge.
I think, I think you bring up a good point where you have, you know, your basic kind of like banding together, maybe some smaller groups and try and take on maybe larger groups that maybe have, you know, a really killer event planned, or, or dinner or maybe maybe Gartner could do something to encourage that? I'm not sure, I don't know, maybe, Just not the space don't think that's got a problem to solve I think Gardner does a great job of this conference.
Yeah, very long run. There is plenty of space to move around. I mean, Vegas is built for this type of thing, so it's great. I appreciate that. It's in the same place. So I, you know, once I get past the first, you know, a couple hours of remembering where things are, it becomes second nature and things like that so you know, from a, from a logistics standpoint. Yeah, I thought that was great like no problems whatsoever there the issues Are typically first world problems, right?
Oh my gosh. I'm give I've been invited to too many free dinner tonight. What am I going to do, right? Stuff like that. I mean, Pierce from your perspective like, you know, we're on the same business and you know, what are, you know, any thoughts around and sort of what we've been talking here? I wish this is that the cosmos I could keep getting my Marriott points, first and foremost, well, you know, Jim and I, we did stay at the cosmo.
So we, you know, we Trek over two seasons but II agree, I think Vegas is a great destination for this. It It's definitely made for this. I appreciate the space to that was pretty roomy for everybody. I will admit though that I was very lost for 99% of where I'm going and where all these rooms are the first time trying to find them. But aside from that I think Gartner as a whole did an excellent job and you know the after I agree with you that the After parties were not far,
doesn't there were plenty. And a lot of it was marketing parties where it was more focused on Biz Dev and you know, relationship building. But then the day I agree. It's all first world problem, starting decide. Hey which expensive venue. Do I want to go and get fat at and I'm getting fat already. So, which one do I want to get even fatter at? So it was all just a great, great time and I to your point about being a civilian here.
Yeah, I do empathize with You, if you are a buyer of identity, right? In your practitioner you are probably getting pulled into million directions left and right and if you are coming here to learn and identity because there is no Frenemies. Right, as you call it, I do think from a solution perspective, you hear a lot of different things from the solutions and it's hard to actually make up your mind independently by even some of
the sessions, right? It'll be like sponsored by X. Of course, when its sponsored by acts, they will talk about their solution offering. So I do think Gartner did a great job, but that's an identity practice. I think we need to figure out how to make that a little bit more easier for people and hey, and then today you are can, it does have magic quadrants, right? So, you could argue, that's probably Gartner strategy to why they should listen to them. I mean Garner's Gartner are
tastemakers yeah. Right. They put out the magic quadrant For Better or Worse. You know a lot of organizations sort of look at As you know, the source of Truth, so to speak for different products. I don't agree with it, I value the research, but it's a data point. But there are certain organizations like well unless you're in, you know, the upper right of Gartner we're not even looking at you.
That's just this arbitrary line that gets drawn out there but yeah it's you know, I think I got it. It's been a great conference. I'm actually looking forward to tonight because the first night I don't have anything planned except for, you know, we're going to go to dinner. I hope or get drinks or something. So there's like no pressure like whatsoever. It's like I am just kind of, you know, let my short hair down so to speak. Yeah, wounds of mention one.
Other idea I had for next year, which is in the and identity at the center Booth past live, understood more idea. No, I don't necessarily need to Booth but there's so cedars in the vendor Hall. Like why not do an hour-long episode of? I can't eat Center. Maybe have some of the Gartner analyst come in and and I'm not throwing that. Yeah, out there. Let's let's let the identity of the sender listeners. You know, they can reach out if that's something, they want to
suggest something. For the future would be happy to. I've got one other idea. I think when so great coffee stations throughout some chocolate chip cookies out there as well. Yeah, over the snacks man and they if they're warm, that would be even better than I would have liked to seem like a soda station. I don't drink coffee, but I wasn't thirsty for sure. Yeah, here is one critical flaw that. It just occurred to me that I was thinking I was like, wow that's that's not good planning.
Don't put a coffee station in the middle of a hallway. Where all your key notes are taking place and create our Greek. That is one thing that I will as crit as you know my most critical piece of feedback was, you know, it though there was a little bottom up there with the coffee. Great idea, not necessarily the right location for it. Yeah. Hey I'd say they got a 99 out of 100 then I would say. So yeah, it was good, good job Gartner, you get the Identity Design. The of approval.
Congratulations, you're all listeners of the week. Yeah, let's see, anything else? Or should we go eat? I'm starving, but I mean, overall, I'm just happy to have be in Vegas for the first time in a long time. And I think this conference was a success, if more than anything to seeing people in real life, makes such a big difference. There was even, you know, our team, right? We talked about us, there's people work With 44 years never
met him before. So I got to meet him which is interesting and I think as we keep this up I don't know if I'm going to come and Gardner every year because it is a lot to go to these conferences, mentally and spiritually. And also work keeps piling up right? When you get back here and work doesn't go away. Yeah, I see. You have to make this up one way or another. That's right. It's a opportunity cost for eight years. Yeah, your time here, you're not working on your client work to
climb works. Needs to be done. So corruptible and you get back. I wanted to bring up a friend, I met today, David Strummer, and he had a great idea. I think it's a great idea that we should have identity at the center logo swag. Just throwing that out there Jeff because I know that you bounce the idea out there on me before and I told David that and he was a longtime listener. So shout out to him. I don't know if he would sell
anything. I don't want it, you know, you're really good at giving me work, which is great. I don't know if that's something that people be interested in maybe we can figure out how to make it happen. Yeah. I guess. I think I'd be cool. I mean at the very least maybe we get like a couple of polos or cups or something like that. Even for just us. I think it would have been cool.
Like if we were wearing idec's shirts and walking around the conference and people would more easily identify us because David said, you know, so I sat down his When we start talking and what do you, what do you have planned for today? O podcasts what podcasts and then it's the center. Oh, you do the identity of the sender podcast. So let's do it all the time. I was telling other people about it and it's like, you know, I guess he didn't recognize me from my crazy hair like are pivoted.
But anyway, I don't want. You know, I I don't want to, you know, disrupt the conference with our notoriety and just, you know, the celebrity he and signing autographs in the hallway. That wouldn't be cool. We don't want to upstage anyone. I don't think we have to worry about that one. All right. I think, well, you know what, let's wrap up with something silly. Which what's your next vehicle going to be Pierce? Hey, 2016. Porsche 911. Carrera has naturally aspirated.
Okay, there was zero thought so that was obviously premeditated. No, it's I think about this all the time. I am very much into cars and my fiance. I'm Married next week so wife. But soon to be wife, she thought I needed something bigger so I got an SUV, I regret buying an SUV every single day of my life. So one day I'm going on, that opposite route of something, absolutely not practical that will not fit in, but it will be a lot of fun.
One note, I would like to say, I think I changed my mind. My highlight of the conference. Jim was your head shot. That he posted on LinkedIn. That I got a kick out of that waiting for my delay. Plight that Is good, comment section was Lively. I saw a Samoa other things. Yeah, I had to point that out to you Jeff because look, I'm not saying I look like she's some of them all. I don't think I do but I've heard that one before. I think it's just the crazy hair and you know being jacked.
Yeah. Totally and humble and humble. I don't Jim. What's your next car? So I'd like it to be the The the electric one, the light. Now I have my money on. Yeah, that's by choice. Get in line, we're weightless. And I can't wait three years, so I pretty much decided I need. I want a pickup truck, so I think I'm just going to go, whatever, just fuel efficient or will have some excellent, my over until the lightning with a pickup truck. Fill fuel efficient and pickup
truck. Don't don't go together, most fuel, efficient possible. But yeah, I want the lightning, but mean I can, Wait, three years. You're much more practical, like, Pierce went all out with this Porsche belches which is, that's impressive. Dude. I my I want my next vehicle to be either the potent, the new pole, star Roadster, and they announced or the Tesla Roadster. Everybody knows I'm a TV Junkie. Yeah. Both of us. Just like so sweet. They are sweet cars, very
expensive. So we got a pole star has a drone that pops out of work where the spoiler is of get an axe as like a secondary camera. Unlike a Scam. I mean come on. That is a dog's itself after sun. Yeah, I don't know if it'll make it to the production version but the concept version has a drone. You what? We look it up. I don't have a in front of me but it's the Polestar Roadster that they have coming out. It looks badass, so it's cool.
All right, now that everyone's ruling, let's call it a week. Let's go get some dinner. Really appreciate, you know, Gartner putting on such a great event, looking forward to the next one. And appreciate everyone who came up introduce themselves. It's great to hear from you. Runners. We had a great show, the other night where a bunch of listeners came up into the RSM suite and we entertained and put on a put on a great podcast episode.
And some people got to see, you know, how how the magic is made. So really appreciate everyone contributed to this Pierce. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah let's call it a week and thanks for listening and we'll talk with everyone in the next one. Thanks for listening to the identity at the center podcast. If you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe and visit us on the web and identity at the center.com.