You're listening to the identity at the center podcast. This is a show that talks about identity and access management and making sure you know who has access to what let's get started. Welcome to the identity of the sender podcast I'm Jeff and that's Jim. Hey Jim hey Jeff, how are you? Oh, not so bad yourself. I'm good man. Second day of a new career working here. Yeah, new career working. As the, that sounds interesting director of digital identity advisory services at RSM u.s. LLC.
I think I got that right. I'll pee I'll be darn it, darn it. Yes, that's correct. I'm getting there. It's very exciting. It's day two. We're together again. The the identity mullet lives on as our friend Jody says so hopefully she's listening. Congratulations to you and to me as well since we're building quite quite the quite the practice here. So this is pretty cool but yeah very excited to have you on board and you know to to the Moon as the kids say. Yeah.
Yeah, I'm excited, man. I mean everybody, I've met so far has been Super helpful. And, you know, it's like, it's always a nervous thing starting with the new organization. I mean, heck, you just went through it, not that long ago, but you don't know you. And then all the other folks who have been very gracious as I've made it quite enjoyable for the first day and a half. Yeah, the honeymoon period is alive and well, still, so yeah. Yeah, I've got, I've got a
little bit sorry. I would like I didn't scare you off or, like crazy orientation, or stupid stuff like that. No, no. And already starting to book some travel. So, planning on being out at the Gartner, I am Summit in Las Vegas, is that August 21st through this 22nd to the 24th. It's a Monday through Wednesday, this year, instead of the normal sort of like, after Thanksgiving Before Christmas, they've moved it up to August.
So yeah. Yeah, we're both going to be in Las Vegas which is very cool and we're going to plan on doing some podcast recording out there as well. Try to find a quiet corner for us to do our Shenanigans in and maybe invite some folks over and have conversations with which would be pretty pretty neat, I think. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah I think that's a rookie.
So if you're if you're listening and you want to meet us or maybe you know get involved with podcasting anyway just reach out to either Jeff. I are both folks. Use LinkedIn as probably the best tool to do so and we'd love to hear from. You would love to meet you in person. Yeah, absolutely. Do they proverbial fist bump? And and yeah, just have a conversation and, and keep it real. And I feel like, I'm young and hip at this point with keep it
real, and to the moon. But to the Moon, is we have to wait, not even close to New as it. And that from like me. I think it says, like that. Like the meme stocks and things like that. At but that was kind of like, you know, at least where I've heard it. Most recently is like in the condo in the context of, you know, some junk crypto coin I should say junk. But some cryptocurrency, you know, being artificially inflated and pushed Sky High.
I guess I was thinking of the old Ralph from The Honeymooners, to the movie with you Alice. I think it was like, you know, one of these days pow right in the kisser. So, politically until think you can probably say that TV these days. Yeah, probably in a lot of trouble. Yes, we're going to be a gardener. Jim is join me over at RSM, which is awesome. So, looking forward to continued success there, I don't know about you, but I've gotten a lot of like cool feedback over the last.
I don't seem like the last couple of weeks for people who've been listening to the show on LinkedIn, which is pretty neat. It's always interesting to see kind of like who's listening, right, who's setting in the feedback, but also, where they're at. At and it's pretty. We're truly are a global show at this point got thousands of folks listening to our to our identity stuff, pretty much every week, which is very neat.
And so what I thought we'd do this week is take some of the questions that we've gotten over the last really kind of few weeks. And do you know what we like to call in the biz? A mailbag episode ended up taking questions in the biz. That's right. As professional podcasters is take a few questions that we've received that we thought were pretty interesting and maybe the audience Spike, get some interest from and you know, answer them put our spin on it and see where things go.
So we selected three and we'll start with the first question and I'll just read them off here. This is from Joanne California. What we will leave last names and companies out to keep just make sure that we you know don't out people where maybe they don't want to be or whatever it is. But Joan California, what is more important having and I am program and I think by this he means the people And sort of like the process or having I am technology, like OCTA sale point or cyber-ark.
So things like access management identity governance privileged access tools. So I think the intention here is like where do you start maybe do you start with people and process in the program? For do? Get a technology first and then it's kind of build around that. What are your thoughts? Jim, let's see both be successful. I think that this one of those Consulting answered Pounds because I think it depends on the size and maturity of the organization.
Even very large organization. You've got to assume that there's some kind of footprint of the technology already in place. Maybe some some old work'll technology or maybe a custom homegrown solution for managing access request, rotting provisioning request, things like that. Maybe some kind of spreadsheet process for reviewing access, certainly doing some Some level of authentication, right? People don't just even in
smaller organizations. You do you just go to an application and get access to the crown jewels of the organization so you know single sign-on and the even privileged access to, it's got to be some level of Technology there even if it's not good, right? Even if the end users have to have a 2 usernames and passwords or even if you're doing some kind of, you know, not very secure way of managing, Shared
passwords and stuff like that. So in that case where you've got technology but you know it's not the right or appropriate technology. I say start with the program because then you bring the stakeholders to the table, you put together a strategy and you go through a formal process to select the right Technology based on your use cases and requirements. Now, If you're the case where you actually have been absolute vacuum of technology or you're coming up, right? Especially smaller.
Organizations is not going to be appropriate, probably for 100 200 person organization to have a whole, a lot of hoopla around having an I am program, I think starting with, you know, ideally you have a trusted partner who knows the landscape well enough and can advise you In more of an informal way rather than going through a whole strategy development and here are the technologies that would be a good fit for you that I think are, you know, map to your technology skill sets or
whatever. And then I think it makes sense where you can start with technology. But I think for again larger organizations who find themselves, you know, it's kind of become laggards in this area in terms of their technology footprint. Starting with a program. Really make sense. What do you think? Yeah, if I did. Difficult to believe, there's not any technology there. You know, active directories, probably the most prevalent.
Most most organizations have that, or they have Azure or we Google by way of, like, Google office or Google mail. I guess I still want to start with people and process, though, because If I don't know who owns identity and who's responsible and accountable for those Services, it's really tough to get anything going from a measurement aspect, just have an accountability aspect, you know, those sorts of things, I know, plenty of organizations, they'll go off and say, yeah.
We're going to go by, you know, X tool, and there isn't an IM program. And they sometimes struggle with that because they don't really have any direction. They're like, oh yeah, we need a password tool. So we're going to go by LastPass not to pick on a particular company or OCTA, or Duo, right? For MFA or whatever is maybe they're buying a tactical solution and not really thinking strategically. So I tend to lean towards people and process because my thought is lots of companies.
Get away without having a ton of I am technology. Probably have a syndication, like you mentioned, but that's companies don't have identity Governor's administration technology, lots of companies still don't Have a you know, a privileged access management, Vault or session monitoring and recording you know capabilities or key rotation or Secrets management and rotation, you know, things like that. But they do have people and they do have processes.
So even if you know, it is a manual environment at least there's some direction and some accountability for the delivery of those admittedly, very manual services. So I like to start with people and process because it generally takes some You know, some buy-in and some consensus consensus building to buy some of these more dedicated technologies that are frankly, getting, you know, more and more expensive all time. So that's tender, you know, that's, I guess that's where I tend to start.
But, you know, the Consulting answer, it depends. But I think in a vacuum, I'd want to know who owns, I am. And to me that's people and process, the IM program itself. Yeah, I mean, I think when you think about moving up the Maturity rankings in terms of having a program you're talking about, formalizing the program making more formal. When you think about other areas of maturity, it's about instituting automation, automation paper trail, you know, things to make it operate better.
In terms of that, that program formality, I think the smaller more immature organization. You still need a strategy, right? I don't think it makes sense for anybody to just go out by technology and through technology as solution and hope it works, but you probably don't need all the formal steps that a large organization would require, you don't need maybe a steering committee meeting with representative from all these different parties. You can do it a little more informally.
If you're the technology leader, you kind of come up with the strategy or work with your trusted partner to come up with the strategy and Start implementing it that you're in the larger organization, especially a global organization where you've got stakeholders different business units or different geographies, as well as different departments. You've got to come up with a way to keep those folks included.
You have get their buy-in to the strategy, keep them, you know, knowing understanding what their involvement has to be going forward. So you know, I think it's Everybody needs a strategy is just how much, how much formalization do you put around that process? Depends on where you are in terms of your size and maturity
of an organization. You know, I'm glad you mention that word formality because they think sometimes we get stuck in sort of like this definition of like, oh it's yeah, it's a, it's a black tie, you know, suits and super formal and you know, very rigid. And I hear that all times like
okay, we need a more formal. I am program, but it doesn't necessarily mean it is, you know, 8 people sitting at a conference room, you know, raising their thumbs like American Idol to say yes or no whether or not this project is going to go forward, but I do think it it that there is some structure to the way that the program is being run doesn't mean that you need to have you know suits and ties and all that. All that fun stuff. It can be more informal as long as there is.
Is someone in charge that there is some Rhyme or Reason that things are moving forward. You're right. You don't need, you know, all that hoopla. As you mentioned for the smaller organizations, you might have it that you're worried, you know, wearing multiple hats Etc. So I'm glad you got to pick up because I sometimes struggle with that word and kind of talking with clients.
Okay, well you know we got to get just more formal with the identity program itself, but what does that actually mean a real world doesn't necessarily mean you know death by committee or, you know, 800 steps to get? Anything done. I think it just means having more structure to the program and maybe and maybe structures a better word when it comes to, you know, hey, let's let's make sure we have a more structured.
I am program that there is some, some guidelines are rails to keep people on. Yeah, well I think, you know, the bigger organ bigger, the organization is the more that structure is going to be important? The, you know, let's take this example, you know, the way I like to run, I am program. In the larger organizations you have a set of policies and standards. This policy is to standards are meant to be applied to all of
your technology. So if you have a password policy, for example, pastors got to be 12 characters, long, that applies to every system in your organization right now. You may have a group that runs a Mainframe that can only do an eight character password. I'm picking on this because it's such a common example, right? I'm system only allows an eight character password can live with the cat password policy can integrate to your SSO technology.
I think the proper solution is that they should have to apply for a formal exception, you know. Now if you're in a 200-person organization, that's that's Overkill, right? And it's what's the point. It's like you've only got so many applications that you need to manage, but if you're an organization with, you know, hundreds or even thousands of applications, you know, you've really got to run things through the formal process.
How do you attract it right and I think even if you're just writing it down on a piece of paper it's okay. We know that there is this app out there, you know, we're not going to formally manage it but at least we know about it. I think that's just having that structure in the process to it and kind of grow into it. I don't think it's something you need to like, solve overnight, but I think you should start to think about as the organization grows.
Maybe you're not going to be a 200 person or a 50-person organization forever. You know, maybe the you do grow at some point, the sooner you start to have structure The easier it will be to kind of grow and mature, that sort of thing. Yeah. Any other question. That is a mailbag. Yeah let's go do Andrew and Georgia. I like this question because this is something that I like to ask when I'm talking with customers to is he asks this our social media accounts in the scope of I am I think.
Yes. But my management disagrees. What are your thoughts? So Jim, our social media accounts in the scope of I am, do you side with Andrew? Or are you management? Boo. Well I think it's I think it's a great question because I don't think there's one answer. Here's what I kind of think. I don't think it's in the core of what most I am programs are focused on most. I am programs are going to be focused on the use case around, you know, employee access.
Now, views, the broad definition of who has access to what is definitely included in that. So is also included is Is all the people who work for your company if they have access to, you know, Wells Fargo and Bank of America systems or other systems. Are they have accounts that were
issued by other companies. So you should be managing all that as well as your social media, I guess where I'm going with it is that I don't think it's core scope of I am, but I do think it eventually gets there. So, if you're building, if you're starting from very immature Point, you're probably not all the There.
So, I guess what I'm saying is that, if you're an organization, that is very much in the public eye, it becomes much more important that you're able to manage those social media accounts. But I'd say also, you really have to work with the team, say use them to make sure it's a good user experience, right? It can't be like, hey the person's got to go to cyber-ark to check out a password to use the Twitter account. That's just not that's not going
to flow well enough. So you have to look at Solutions designed specifically For social media. Yeah, I'll be honest I was not with you until you added your caveat at the end about, you know, social media being a core use case. Definitely that I think it is that the scope. I think in general should be in scope, but I think after Define what that scope is, are you actively managing the account, or are you providing guidance to the team probably marketing or Communications?
That is actually controlling the account? I think at a minimum you're at Providing guidance and a set of policies procedures standards, whatever may be for them to follow that aligns with your I am program policy and standards. Make sure MFA is turned on. Make sure that if you know, there's a review of who has access to those accounts and that they're not posting stupid stuff because we see that all the time, you know some is getting breach making sure they
have MFA. So those breaches are, you know, minimize the chances of it, those sorts of things, there are certainly dedicated tools out there to manage those accounts. But They are pretty specific it surprises. Me a little bit that the privileged access management players, the big ones, like cyber-ark Beyond, trust de línea formerly known as psychotic and centrify and others. Haven't really embraced figuring out how to manage those use
cases. Some of those social media type of cats, more directly rather than just having a simple Vault. It's not it's not an area that I'm next in an expert on from a technology Standpoint but you have things like HootSuite that has some capabilities out there that you know, can probably help
out. I know there's another one actually there was somebody who reached out on LinkedIn recently, we got to get in touch with that person and maybe get them on to talk about kind of management of social media accounts from an identity perspective but I do think they should be at a minimum governed by policy and standards, but they should not be forgotten and just left for some other team to kind of figure out, I think they should be included.
Part of the strategy. Yeah, I totally agree with you. I mean, see you have the advantage that I have to go and answer first and then you get to just. Yeah. So, so yeah, I mean, what you just said, there were two, the my mind went right to, okay, how do you get to a point where you're actually responsible for managing them which is much harder than, you know, having a policy in place in having a policy in place.
Let's let's Be frank is like there's no money involved with putting a policy in place and even tracking whether or not the policies being followed is not that much. There's not that much of an investment. They're now in terms of using technology to do it to deal with essentially what I think are going to be shared accounts, right? Because let's imagine you're a sports league and you've got social media. Like you've got a Twitter account.
And you, you know, are taking pictures from games or videos from games and you want to get them post on the Twitter. I'm not sure exactly how most is lease work. If they've got 30 people or 15 people who are at all the different games who could potentially do that or if it gets funneled back to some Central source and they post it. But the more bureaucracy that is involved with that process.
The slower is going to be to get that video online and like the name of the game I think is got to be speed to getting it online before somebody else goes and seals Earth under our if it takes 12 hours to get a 5 second video online, then, what's the point? Yeah, that title in us. I think of the delivery of the content is obviously important social. Yeah, I guess that wasn't thinking about actively managing it. I think that frankly is a losing battle right now.
If you don't have specialized social media technology identity controls, like you're trying to do it through your average access management, or identity, governance, or even produce at privileged access management tools. I don't think, It's a winning fight right now, but I do think they should at least be a counter for form a strategy from
a program perspective. And then you know the organization aside for they want to make the investment in asbestos specific tool that covers those specific use cases or not. I think it really we have to get, I'm guessing you also don't need to give someone on who can kind of give us the lay of the landscape in terms of the
technology that's available. you know, the circuit manager but you're right on but the in terms of the policy I think what I was, you know, where my head was with Andrews question was you know, if I'm a company that somewhere in the United States and we make boxes Like, you know, all right. And they called me in to put together and I am strategy. My big Focus isn't going to be on their Twitter account, Right and it's it's way out in terms of of priority.
However if you're obviously the higher profile company the more The more you are a target for those social media account hacks. I think I at least take a minute to ask the question and find out and if I'm comfortable with what's being done and the controls, you know, something about like from a either, an I am program manager or maybe a c, so I have a lot of targets, right?
It may not be the highest priority, but at least I asked the question and sort of make a mental note of where that is and maybe if I'm not using enough, a baby us, the media thing get MFA in that account and will Come talk to you in a couple of years, right? But at least get MFA. I'm going to say is I would at least ask a basic question and then move on to things that might be more strategic from an identity perspective, for example.
Yeah, we're Emma faking can start to be a real headache, though. We did talk about this. In our MFA discussion is shared accounts. So if you're using it I'm using it. All right? Well because the SMS text. Yeah, exactly. Hey and by the way your you know here's it maybe this is a little bit of banter but You're controlling the questions in the mail bag. But I just got a message from Matt asking. Oh, so you and Jeff both went to RSM.
What's going to happen to the podcast while we are still actively recording at as we speak as as both employees of RSM. So, that's what's happening with the podcast. Yeah, nothing is happening. We are going to continue to do this as we have for the last three years. We just celebrated our A birthday. This is episode 155. I think we're averaging like 1.1 episodes per week.
If you do sort of like the math, but yeah, the plan is to keep this going to still keep it, you know, as weekly is as we can as we have over the years. So no changes not anticipating any huge, you know, commercials or branding exercise, or things like that. I'm sure we might talk about some things in the future, but it'll be the same, you know, vendor-neutral Jim and Geoff, show, you know, that we run kind of Dependent from from our real jobs.
So good question. I'm glad somebody brought that up. Yeah. All right. Anything else in the mailbag? Yeah, let's do one more here on Nigel in Belgium where this is a good one. Where does privacy sit within an organization? Should the? I am team own that generally, I would say no, the am team doesn't own privacy, there's going to be, you know, a bigger organization show up, like, Chief privacy officer and a whole privacy team that I think, Am has privacy is a stakeholder.
Is our privacy is going to provide requirements. I think getting them involved early in the development of your strategy is the way to go. If you already have your strategy developed, you don't work with them to make sure that they support the strategy that it accomplishes. I think the other thing to be aware of is that there are spaces, evolving even more quickly than than ours. As with the I am digital identity space.
I am digital identity is definitely evolving quickly by privacy keeps evolving even more quick than that because, you know, states and countries are constantly putting out new regulations and it's changing that landscape. So that could be impacting the regulatory environment with the legal environment for your organization and your, I am team needs to adapt to that. So, Yeah I think it's it's a matter of working had to have with privacy.
Yeah, I agree with that. I think the overlap becomes a little stronger. If you're thinking about it from a customer, I'd any perspective where those controls need to be built potentially into like a profile management system or something like that. I see a greater hand in the steerage, maybe of how that might work within the concept or the cotton that the framework of what the I am programs.
Looking to accomplish with the customers probably less Sony employee side because they don't think I typically see privacy management for the employee, but definitely the customer side. I would say I agree though. I don't think I am owns it. I think they're a partner in potentially delivering some of the services behind it from a user, just user experience perspective, maybe or storage, maybe of certain bits of data within like, a master user directory or profile or It may
be that sort of thing. Yeah, I think I've been involved with enough projects where as this whole privacy landscape from GDP are on, has evolved for a. And when I am teams kind of, get in their own sphere of trying to solve, okay? What is our privacy landscape? And what how do we have to build our?
I am systems, it can really throw a whole wrench in the works in terms of data residency and things like that and do like you just don't have The knowledge to answer those questions as beneficial to be able to go to somebody who can speak authoritatively on this, is how these regulations affect our company and how we need to address them in terms of our system deployment. And so if you have a privacy office that's you know the starting point.
I also think you know, if you don't essentially pulling in somebody from your legal team, whose Is responsible for how those regulations affect your company is going to be key? Yeah, it's all agree. It's hard to be an expert in everything. Privacy is evolving so quickly and the methods with which to control that and the laws around the world are constantly changing seems like there's a new one popping up every six months or a year or so different
countries. So it goes, I think for me, I think about it from a base use case perspective because this is like a Not that. I think I hear a lot is, you know, how we're going to manage all these different privacy regulations. And my general guidance is, they're all pretty similar. It's really about making sure you have the appropriate audit Trail. You've got the appropriate, you know, controls to be able to remove, or, you know, or obfuscate data based on the user. Those sorts of things.
If you can do those basic things, chances are, you're probably in a much better position to comply with whatever. Privacy regulations come up, and those are sort of like base, you know, Plumbing essentially, from add any perspective. No, those are great points. All right, why don't you? Go ahead and wrap it up for this week. Thanks to Joe, Andrew Nigel. And and a few others who said two questions in before we go.
I Jim I know that you I just moved, I think you're looking at moving soon and we're going to go positive this week because I think when people think about moving they think of ways I do it maybe. Hassles that go on with it. Right? You know, it moving stinks or you know, whatever maybe. But what's your favorite thing about moving everything about moving. It was top views. I'm one of those people who might my general belief is that? We can all agree that moving is
being the neck are. So yeah, I could easily get dragged into that. That - but I think if you think about Moving from the standpoint, not the the act of moving, because the act of moving, I don't think, I think you have to be a sadist to think that's fine. But if you think about the end product of moving, it's like you're moving. Hopefully to have a better life and I'm thinking, you know, with my move like the company that does my trash pick up some weeks, they just don't show up.
And so I have a trash can that's like overflowing with trash from really hoping that that's not going. Happen anymore. My internet my Wi-Fi, you know, good once a month I'll just be garbage for an entire day and it's really hard to do customer calls and things like that when your Wi-Fi is just going up and down all day, so hopefully my Wi-Fi. Provider will be better. And I, you know, when I think about that I'm like, I know people like you've gotta live in the moment.
I've been hearing this advice on my life and I I think it's good advice because you don't, otherwise, you'd like just B's by you. But when you're in these times, where it's like, time to hunker down, just get stuff done, and maybe your circumstances aren't that. Great. Like you're in the middle of a move or, you know, whatever reason. Don't live in the moment, living like this picture of the future
of where you're heading. And if you're not happy with where you are, don't fixate on the fact that you're not happy where you are think about where you're going. And so that's what I also like about movie is like isn't a picture of like, where I'm going is going to be better and I can go through kind of those hard times to get to that that better state. Sounds to me like you're full of Hope when you're moving hope for better things that I think
that's a good outlook. I think for me, I think the best thing is it's a good opportunity to like clean house. Get rid of drawers, full of crap that you don't need. You know, everybody think everybody. This point has like that box of cables that they've stored, the like, oh, here's my, you know, USB type B cable from like 20
years ago. Well, maybe I might need that if it's been in a box for 20 years, Or five years or whatever it is you probably don't need it. Probably a good idea to like Purge or recycle you know, some of that stuff. So I certainly did that. I cleaned, I cleaned the major house when I moved. Like I just had you know, Decades of just stuff as I can. I haven't used it.
It's time to go and so I think I think that that that fret that helps with a fresh start to, it's like, okay we've we're not bringing that baggage literally, you know, with us to the new place. Is, you know, start with a little bit more of a clean slate, which is always kind of cool. I don't know about that man. I'd never through cables way and I've had so, especially plugs. So if you a plug that in the other end has some kind of random connection. You just never know when that's
going to come in handy. Yeah, that's true. I, you know, I just, I bit the bullet. It was just kind of, like, I had so many cables. It's like, okay, well, maybe I'll use that. And I downside integrator, get rid of them all. So now I have like, Box with cables. I have a box with like power related items but not only have one box of each instead of like multiple. So I feel like I made progress and, you know, now I'm starting to pull some that stuff out and kind of redeploy.
You know how things are in the new house we got. So I like that and you actually know where it is now. Yeah. Try to be a little more organized with some. That stuff was good. It was good opportunity to like, okay. You know, you start, I still have a junk drawer. So of course, you know, it's like my odds and ends everything
goes in there. But try to be a little more consistent with what I'm doing with other stuff but I'm still working on my office and the new place I haven't been home much for the last few weeks since we moved because I've been on the road as I come to you live from Racine Wisconsin as I record
this in a hotel. So I'm looking forward to having a couple days at home at some point till today to work on what is your Racine Wisconsin known for Well, let's see Frank Lloyd Wright. Probably, because this is where lots of his architecture resides from homes. To SC Johnson, has their headquarters here, they have the research Tower, that's part of their property.
They also have the administrative building that has, if the building that has what they call it, the called the water lilies where it is like these essentially spires that are inside their one of their offices. So there's that Kringle which is like a pastry up here. It's kind of similar to like a Danish is very popular around
here. I'd never heard of it until I started coming here with some regularity, but I think those are probably the two things that would be like Frank Lloyd, Wright, architecture and Kringle. And I'm sure my friends and Racine will probably tell me. There are things but those are things that I think. The Kragle thing reminded me of when we were in Buffalo, what was the famous meal that we had in Buffalo and buffalo Rochester
of Rochester? Your top, the garbage plate then we do an episode of the podcast called garbage Fleet. Yeah, we definitely got. I think it was like another odds-and-ends episode. It was a kind of like this. It was that I think I called it. Like, they're like the I am garbage plate or something that but yeah, it was something we did around right around the time but we were both of Rochester for so for people who don't know what the Garbage.
Plate is just like whatever they have the kitchen could be french fries. Some meatloaf some whatever, throw it on the plate. Leftovers leftovers. I like what I have placed. Yeah, leftover pizza left over. Was that second day of lasagna is amazing know what it is about like that but it's good stuff. All right, we are way off topic but again let's go ahead and wrap things up. F, that's fine. This is the this is our Our time
our fun time. Yeah, we'll go ahead and wrap it up for this week again will be at Gartner, so if you want to do the fist bump or maybe you know, help contribute or be part of the podcast. Jim. And I are planning on doing some live recording out there and kind of making plans, aren't that hit us up on LinkedIn. We're always happy to talk with folks.
If you've got questions about different things or when our thoughts and opinions, you know, send them our way, we'll get em incorporated into the show at some point. And yeah, with that hit us on the web Denny at the center.com Twitter at idac podcast and thanks for listening and we'll talk with everyone in the next one. Thanks for listening to the identity at the center podcast. If you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe and visit us on the web and identity at the center.com.