[ISBW] Embracing ADHD and Crafting Timelines with Mary Pascual

>> Mur Lafferty: This is. I should be writing. Season 20, episode 21 well. >> Theme Song: I should be writing. I should be working on my craft. I should be writing. I should be submitting my next draft, But I'm sitting home watching Doctor Who >> Mur Lafferty: Yeah, I know, right? >> Mary Pascual: Yeah. That's really good. >> Mur Lafferty: Yeah, we've been going for a while. Long time. hi there. Welcome to I should be writing. This is a podcast

for want to be fiction writers. It's been going since 2005. Yeah, it could. You can vote no, not vote yes, vote yes, vote next year. and, you know, corporations are people, so it's time to incorporate, really. That's the lesson we've learned. My name is Mur Lafferty, and, yeah, I'm a writer. I am frazzled today because I just turned in my 8th book. And, what they say about each book teaches you only how to write that book. And the next time you write

a book, you feels like you're starting at square one. You've learned nothing. that's all true. but I got it turned in, so we'll see. But, yeah, I guess I start the show by giving accountability, and saying what I'm working on, and that is, I've been working. My ADHD deadline brain didn't kick in until very close to the deadline. So I've been pretty much writing straight from like nine to six for the past several days, which isn't healthy, but it's

what my brain wanted to do. I don't know, but, whatever, healthy or not, it's done. I'm delighted to have with me today a writer who, I believe is not as frazzled as I am. Mary Pascual the author of Walk the Web lightly. How are you, Mary? >> Mary Pasquale: I'm doing good. Thank you so much for having me. >> Mur Lafferty: Thank you so much for being patient with me. >> Mary Pasquale: I've been there. I've been there. So I totally understand.

>> Mur Lafferty: Yeah. >> Mary Pasquale: I'm really impressed that you can write that long in a day, because after a while, my brain shuts down. My ADHD brain says I am overwhelmed now and not working, and then it just refuses, and I have to go take a break. >> Mur Lafferty: Well, my thinking was I would work into the night, but, you know, my family and I are all mystery lovers and

video game lovers. And so once everybody gets downstairs and starts a game or a tv show, we're all just kind of, it's nice downtime. And, you know, my kid just graduated from college, and I'm still enjoying the time with them. So, that's what I've been doing. And I think I needed it. I think if I'd gone like into the evening, that would have been bad. But, yesterday my hands were hurting and I knew that I had reached very close to my limit of how long I could do this.

>> Mary Pasquale: plus, I think it's important that we take those breaks, so that our brain is still working unconsciously. and it's problem solving and it's writing even when we're not aware of it. So sometimes those that breaks are great. You know, they're actually, you're still working even when it feels like you're not. >> Mur Lafferty: My problem is breaks almost always mess up my flow. and I don't care if there's a timer, I don't care if there's a co working

buddy waiting for me. It's like once I take a break, time ceases to exist and so does the importance of what I'm working on. And I don't know what to do about that because I know it's not healthy. So I'm, you know, I don't think I, I didn't stop for lunch today. No. Should probably eat after we talk. >> Mary Pasquale: But, anyway, I forgot about lunch as well, so I'm there with you. Yeah. >> Mur Lafferty: We are going to talk about mental health in a moment.

But I do want to point out, underpope in chat says something very interesting. So many writers I know have ADHD, and so many people I know with ADHD are writers. Coincidence or conspiracy? I, am not a neurologist, but I believe there's something about the ADHD brain that is, while we have so many flaws, we're also highly creative. And the hyper focus helps that too. So. Ah, yeah, sometimes I feel like everybody I know has ADHD.

And then I realize, oh, almost everybody I know are people who are creative, or at least people I spend a lot of time with. I think there's your coincidence. It's creative minds. All the synapses we have that are busted. That one's stronger than most, I would say. Do you have an opinion, Mary? >> Mary Pasquale: I agree with that. I also think, and I've done some reading on this, the ADHD mind also tends to be, it's not just a hyper focus when we super focus, but we actually have a tendency

to. We notice a lot more details than, neurotypical brains usually do. And so therefore, it actually lends itself really well to creativity because I know that I will. I notice that the smell, the feel, the texture that, you know, and I can't. Well, for an example, my husband will go into the kitchen and make himself something to eat, and he will spill salt all over the counter. Now, even though we have a white countertop, I still see that salt. He, does

not notice at all. But I do think that sometimes the, you know, the fact that we notice so much, even though I know typically they say, oh, ADHd means you're not paying attention. It's actually the opposite we are paying attention to, actually, a lot more. >> Mur Lafferty: Yeah. >> Mary Pasquale: And that's when we get distracted and overwhelmed. >> Mur Lafferty: Slow it down. >> Mary Pasquale: Slow it down. But it's a wonderful attribute

to have when you go to create something. You know, there's an attention to detail, that, you know, AdHd really helps with, you know, since we're noticing all of that. >> Mur Lafferty: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, anyway, we want to talk about your new book that came out in may called, walk the web, lightly. Do you want to give us the rundown of that? >> Mary Pasquale: Sure. walk the web lightly is about a younger teen named Nya. She's just turned

14. She, lives with her mother and grandmother. They're very protective of her, and they can all secretly see, the lines of time. That means that they can see the past, which appears as one shining line behind each person. And they can also see all the potential lines that that person might choose, in front of them. So they can see time as these, like, strands of lights. Now, because of this gift, people like them have been kind of exploited and abused and persecuted over the years.

So she comes from a culture that has been in hiding, and they keep on the move. And therefore, her family is very protective of her. And they also have this really strong heritage of being artists. And it's just something that her mother and her grandmother both expect Nya to follow in her footsteps. But Nya really loves science and wants to be a doctor. And she also doesn't understand why she couldn't use her gift to help people. So this is a story about coming of

age. her grandmother, she wants to go to a medical science cramp. Her grandmother is completely opposed, but she says if you can complete your soul wrap, which is this artistic, tradition that her people have, then they'll talk about her going to this camp. Otherwise, she has to say no to her science dream for good. and Nya is sure she can win this contest. but in the meantime, someone is kind of starting to manipulate events to find out their

secrets. So it's all about, you know, does Nya, even when you can see all of time. Do you have the knowledge and wisdom to make the right choices? So coming of age story, very strong relationships between the three women and lots of art versus science, but also how art and science can complement each other. So is my book. >> Mur Lafferty: That's awesome. would you call it ya? Because, you know, people have called it coming of age, but would you call it ya? And if not, then why?

>> Mary Pasquale: Okay, so I struggled with this because I thought this is either young ya, which there isn't a lot out there, and there is a little bit of a need for it, or it's a slightly older middle grade. But there are some themes we decided on ya, because there are some themes that she goes through later in the book that are definitely a little bit

older. but I do feel like I really wanted to capture that kind of magical span of time when you are kind of on the cusp of, you know, between middle grade and high school, you know, or right in that realm where you don't have a ton of responsibilities, like, yet, you know, the days seem endless and everything's just open and potential. So because of the themes that kind of come out later in the book, I did call it ya. However, I do believe, you know, today kids are really savvy and they know

what's going on. So I think it could cross age groups really easily and I think it could cross into adult as well. I could think adults could enjoy it as well. >> Mur Lafferty: Yeah, I was thinking about, I, think I was watching Space Valkyrie stream and talk about catching fire came up. And I remember before, for the hunk, like right when the Hunger Games got big, is when my kid and I discovered, that Suzanne Collins had written an entire like five book series for middle grade m

called Gregor the Overlander. And, let's see, they were in middle school then, I think so. And so we were listening to Gregor the Overlander, which is about a boy who goes into the under land and finds like sentient bats and rats and another group of people living down there, and he goes to war with them. And, it's neat knowing that Suzanne Collins has her hatred of war. Her story is her dad was a, Vietnam vet and, tackles ADHD. Not ADHD, sorry. PTSD

tackles, that a lot. But it's one of those things where I was shocked at how it was middle grade because of all the action. And there's this scene in one of the later books that made me want to cry when you've got this boy looking in the mirror and saying, I can't ever take my shirt off at the doctors because they will think I'm being, they will think I'm being abused or something. And that's one thing that never comes out in, adventure books, that kind of thing.

And, but I've gone on a huge tangent that's not about your book, and I'm sorry about that, but it's thinking about the, the, where books are shelved is fascinating to me. I also had the problem of my, I thought my kid was not ready to read it or see the movie. And then I realized that I'd read it much younger and so I don't know what I was. A lot of people myself, generation read Stephen King way too early.

>> Mary Pasquale: Yes, I definitely read books that were. I read 1984 when I was like twelve, and I followed up with like, brave New World, which I think was even scarier. there wasn't much of a YA section, so we kind of were just right into adults. I think that's why I, I think it's more the gatekeepers. And I absolutely know because I. Same thing. Like, there are books that I would not have wanted my son to read. But then I thought about it, I'm

like, but I read it. And when I talk with young people, they, they are much more up on news and current events and things that are going on than we realize. But I think it's this idea that there's parents and, you know, librarians and teachers who think, oh, no, that's not appropriate because we want to keep our kids younger. and they're actually, you know, they can both be innocent, naive, and still have knowledge of types of things that are going on in the world, if that makes sense.

>> Mur Lafferty: no, absolutely. >> Mary Pasquale: Yeah. I don't want to ever, you know, dumb anything down for kids. So I try to put myself like, what did I know and what was I feeling experienced when I was that age? It's what I do. The only downside to that is, as you said, there's people of probably our generation and we were, you know, kind of half feral because we weren't paragon much.

>> Mur Lafferty: Yeah. >> Mary Pasquale: So we're probably getting to things that we did not need to get into. so try to temper it a little bit. But yes, I just try to remember that age when I'm writing. >> Mur Lafferty: Yeah. so your book touches on a lot of, what feels like old world magic or mythology. How did you approach, how did you decide to approach it as a time seeing thing? And did you base it off of mythology or were you just. Is this all your stuff?

>> Mary Pasquale: So, it's kind of a little bit of both. So when I was writing my first book, this character, you know, sometimes when we're writing, we can have where we think it's going, and then something unexpected can pop up. So. >> Mur Lafferty: Yes, all the time. Yeah.

>> Mary Pasquale: I had this character pop up, and he and I. He probably didn't even need to be in the first book, but he kind of popped into my head, and I wrote him out, and I loved him so much, and he could see time in the same way. And it just. And in my head, I called him Gideon the spider. And then that made me think, and it was because he was kind of long and, you know, one of these tall, thin people. But then it started making me think of

Arachne and, you know, some of those. And I was looking up spider myth because this is what our ADHD brains do, right? We. Something creates, pops up, and then we go down a rabbit hole. And I actually found a myth about a spider and a snake and how they're both natural enemies, and the spider is, like, really clever, and the snake is relentless and kind of. And I thought, oh, that's really interesting. I would really love to explore kind of those power dynamics, you know, of, one pursuing the

other. And, so I started. I kind of blended, but I said, but I don't want to do the character I wrote in the first book. I want younger character. And so I decided that, to create this other character, Nya, who's actually the daughter of that character in the first book, even though neither book actually talks about that. But, maybe that will come out in the story later on. And then so I was. Yeah, I was kind of weaving in this myth, this idea from this myth, and I like the whole idea of

Arachne from greek mythology. And I started creating her character, and then at one point, I went back to find that myth again, and I could never find it like it. So I was like, whoa. So I read it at kind of the right time. so there definitely is. But I don't. I did read one review of my book who had said, oh, this is the three fates, which the, retelling. And I'm like, oh, that's really interesting. I did not intend that at all. But if the reader finds it, that's great.

Yeah, I would say most of it is my. Is my creation. There's just a couple of, like, small elements. I was inspired by the myth rather than retelling the myth. >> Mur Lafferty: Right, right. So what? This is your second book. as Space Valkyrie said in the chat, unhappily, which is the good to know that every book is its own thing. And I get your, despair. and I have felt it. But I do want to say that at least, you know, when you come up against something

that is part of the process, you don't. It's like, you know, getting used to rejections. That doesn't mean you have to stop being a writer. It's when you hit a wall or something, or struggle with something, you just work through it because you did the last time. And, I'm trying to kind of weasel out of my guests.

Can you tell me, like, something that you ran up against while writing this that really slowed you down and, you know, either mental health or thinking that it's terrible, or thinking that you're terrible, or writer's block or whatever. I'm just trying to go, like, show people what professional writers also deal with. >> Mary Pasquale: well, I have two books out, so I still kind of consider

myself really new. It's like, to. I like the idea of professional writer, but I still feel really new. >> Mur Lafferty: Yeah, I've been there. Yeah. >> Mary Pasquale: I think one of the things that really got in my way is I was finishing this up during the pandemic, and I tend to be a little bit of a slower writer. And so it's the pandemic. I'm trying to work through it, and there's just this internal pressure, like, well, you're almost done. You're almost

done, get it done, get it done. And that actually really gets in my way. And I end up creating a lot of pressure for myself. And then I, you know, m I need to let go of that type of thing. Like trying to say, you need to produce it at a certain time. And I'm always wrong. I am always wrong. I always think, oh, I only need a little. This much more to go, and it's not correct. so that tends to get in the

way a lot. I'm really working hard to let go of that idea that I need to get it done in a certain amount of time. and the other thing that always gets in my way is that there is, without fail, every time I write anything, there is a point where I'm writing this character, and I just run into, who is this? I don't know who this is. What am I doing? I don't know who this person is. And then I get in my head and I do the whole self doubt thing, and it's like, well, maybe you really

can't write. And, you know, not a great mental state to write from. And I get really frustrated with myself. so that. Yeah, that tends. That tends to slow me down. And then I will get into the kind of. The overwhelm and then just sit in front of the tv or play games on my phone. And, It's just a cycle, right? It's like either of those two things, whether I'm pushing myself to finish when it's not finished yet, or I decide I don't know what I'm doing, they're self feeding cycles, because I get

overwhelmed because of those thoughts. And then I sit down and I'm not working. And in my head, it's like, but you should be working. And so it just kind of cycles around. So those definitely, come into play. But, it's funny because I just went to a conference where there was a whole panel on wellness as a writer. And, you know, and that's where, the panel is talking about, you know, you are

working even when you're sitting there doing nothing. Because when they actually map creativity on a neurological level, that there are states of the brain, when you're doing what you think is nothing, where it's actually working. So I'm really working on trying to silence the voice in my head and not, buy into the pressure of, well, you better write really fast, and you better get it out the door. because that just is not. It doesn't work for me, and it puts me in an

unhealthy state. So. Yeah. >> Mur Lafferty: Yeah. one thing I try to do when that happens to me is I know I can start and finish a story. And so at least that part is wrong. Whatever my inner bully is telling me that that part is wrong, because I know I can do that. And, you know, when you prove it wrong one or more times, that helps you think maybe. Maybe they weren't right the first with that other

thing. But we have an ad break incoming, so we're gonna take a moment, and grab some water or take your meds or get a stretch. And we will be back in, about a minute and a half. >> Mary Pasquale: Okay. >> Mur Lafferty: Oh, no, that's okay. I wave. >> Mary Pasquale: We have these lights that go on with movement, and I always have to do at it. >> Mur Lafferty: Oh, yes, of course. >> Mary Pasquale: Magic swirl whenever. Yeah.

>> Mur Lafferty: You just can't stop. It's always gotta. Gotta do that. so what are you working on now? >> Mary Pasquale: I am working on my third book. so both my books and this third book, are they're standalone, but they're set in the same universe. Sorry about that. so there's relations, but things haven't crossed over yet, but they might in the

future. The book I'm working on now and I've just started is I don't have a title for it yet, but it's basically about a young man who runs away from his home after a family tragedy only to meet up with a dysfunctional family circus that's secretly under a curse. and we're going to explore like love and forgiveness and lots of themes like that.

And they're actually not just under a regular circus curse, but they were a whole country and its court, the king and queen and the family and they were put under a curse and basically they lost, everyone lost memory of them and they are, are cursed to travel as this circus. So I'm having with that though it is taking a lot of research, like, like you think, oh, I'm gonna write about a circus and then you need to go actually know a lot

about circuses. So. >> Mur Lafferty: Yeah, I've got, it's good to start building your writerly stable of people you can turn to. And, you know, in social media land that's actually pretty easy. I know, Ursula Vernon just has to put out on Twitter like, hey, all you frog people or frog fans, answer this question for me. And like, they will all come out and ask, answer the frog question for Ursula. If there's a frog question Ursula

doesn't know the answer to. But, yeah, I have a doctor I can text and just say, how would this happen? How would this happen if you didn't treat it? What's the worst that could happen without losing the hand and stuff like that? So it's good to do that. So who did you turn to for circus information? >> Mary Pasquale: I am at the beginning. I've been reading some books and I've been doing a lot of research online. My next step

is to start reaching out to people. I've met someone recently who worked briefly for a circus. so yeah, I probably will put the call out on, on Twitter, on thread, see if anybody pops up. yeah, I mean, I've studied a little bit of circuses in the past because it was something that I had researched for school. I just, I just want to make sure I have everything right and that

it's respectful. Though. The saving grace is that I don't have it completely the same as, you know, true circus culture because they've been kind of forced into it. because I know that a circus circus people are, you know, they. That is a culture in and of itself. But, yeah, I need to. I need to find some live people that I, can speak with. So I'm working on that. >> Mur Lafferty: Yeah, let's see.

So we talked a little bit about mental health, and, I feel like I've been talking about mental health for 20 years. And when I started, it wasn't. I still felt like we had to tell people, you can be creative and take antidepressants, and, you know, it's not gonna just dull your creativity, because there was a lot of harmful talk a while ago about that kind of thing, but, now, actually making sure your brain is healthy is a thing to strive for, for anybody. the whole ADHd thing is.

It's a mess. What I like is, when I'm scrolling through TikTok or Instagram, a lot of people do, like, here's what it's like to have ADHD. And then they do a cute, funny thing, and I'm like, cool. What do I do about it? And it's like, it's very frustrating that that that's as far as it goes. And I don't need people to be my therapist, but I feel like there's an awful lot of, hey, look at that thing that's wrong or different. I don't know what the word is, but, how do you approach it?

>> Mary Pasquale: I have the same thing. I actually just read a different book. M if you don't mind me plaguing somebody else, please. And this book was called ADHD for smart ass women. Oh, yes. >> Mur Lafferty: I listened to that podcast. >> Mary Pasquale: Okay. Yes. And so I thought that book was fantastic. It had a lot of great strategies. I've actually never really felt like my ADHD or neurodivergent. I long suspected that I was, but I'd always

developed. I'd already developed coping mechanisms that were actually very similar to the ones that they recommend anyways, and so it just was later in life that it got harder to. So I it's funny, I actually love seeing some of the TikTok videos when they talk about that, because there's lots of things where I'm like, oh, I can relate to that, too. And so I feel like it's important that those of us that have these things feel seen and

recognized. What I don't like, though, is with the videos, where they'll have, like, the neurodivergent person and then the so called neurotypical person, where the neurotypical person is kind of laughing at the neurodivergent person. It's like, stop laughing so hard, you know, give me a break, you know, so. But I really love, this is a big, this is a patch, though. My son actually is ADHD and has sensory processing

disorder. And then I also had an older brother growing up that actually had, some brain damage from birth, so he had some, you know, mental, disadvantages. And so I grew up around it my whole life, and it's. I refuse to feel like or believe that it is, you know, a detriment. I mean, honestly, there's so many things about ADHD that I personally love. I mean, I. It's hard.

I remember growing up and people, you know, always wanted to act like I was a little bit of a nerd or they called me a weird girl or whatnot like that, but I liked who I was and I always kind of felt like, well, Keith, you know, you people have no perspective because I think that. I love the term neurodiversity because I think we're a spectrum of people and from an evolutionary standpoint, we all needed different skills and there's some really valuable skills

that ADHD brains have. I know it's a struggle because our, for a lot of people, because, our current society does not, is just now starting to accommodate and recognize, really, but, you know, back when we were hunter and gatherers and it was probably, those people were probably pretty prized, you know, I mean, it's their alert, they can spring into action. You know, you look at people who work as emergency rooms or emts, a lot of them also have it. It's, there are a lot of great benefits, so.

>> Mur Lafferty: Oh, yeah, the able to keep your head in a crisis is an interesting thing that I've heard of. did not know that was, could happen with an ADHD brain. So that's interesting about the EMT thing. >> Mary Pasquale: Yeah, I absolutely completely do that. my husband actually had a health scare and I needed to call nine, hundred eleven and get him. And I just do the super focus. And honestly, that hyper focus probably went on for

two or three weeks. I mean, that's a really bad crash at the end. And there was some PTSD around. He was in the hospital for a long time. but, you know, the ability to just keep, you know, very quickly sum up and act on things and prioritize is a great, great skill to have. So, yeah, I don't, I actually don't feel all that bad for being ADHD. I honestly, I kind of, I enjoy other neurodivergent

people. I think that I. I think that I'm hilarious and fun and even if it's a little weird sometimes, but, you know, that was, that's what makes life interesting, is the diversity. >> Mur Lafferty: So, yeah, yeah, I keep thinking about all the things that, I mean, I was diagnosed a couple of years ago, and I'm still learning. Oh, that thing, an ADHD thing. I didn't realize the way I wore my socks had to do with sensory problems. No clue. And then I saw someone do

a TikTok about that. I'm like, that's a thing. That's not just me being weird. And I think of everything else I have about me being weird and thinking, oh, yeah, that makes sense. >> Mary Pasquale: I had to advocate for my son quite a bit because when he started school, sensory processing, was not really a big thing. So I was going in and having to educate teachers, and he did ot and all sorts of things. And his was, when he was younger, it's developmental. So when he was younger, it

was. It's at the worst. And then you kind of learn coping mechanisms. but I'm amazed. Like, I thought that I knew quite a bit about ADHD, but I think I knew more from boys and from older stuff that I learned a long time ago. So studying it now with, as an adult woman and how it presents an adult woman has been really interesting. There's this thing called revenge bedtime procrastination. >> Mur Lafferty: I know, that's amazing. Tell us about it. >> Mary Pasquale: Okay. And I. One

love that name. It makes me m feel totally cool and, you know, but it, basically when you are avoiding, either avoiding your whole bedtime routine, so you stay up too late just because you're avoiding the routine, or you've had a really hard day, and so you're basically kind of taking revenge on the day by saying, no, I'm going to stay. This is the only time I have to relax, so I'm gonna stay.

>> Mur Lafferty: Yes. >> Mary Pasquale: Even though you're tired and you would be better if you went to sleep. So I just learned that one. I was like, okay, that's a fantastic, you know, name. And, it's actually. And I was like, I had no idea I was doing this, but this is exactly what I do. I stay up way too. I stay up so late that I'm too tired to fall asleep. And, yeah, it's. It's fun. So I just thought that

was cool. I mean, it's not great. That is not a healthy strategy, but recognizing it and, especially when I can recognize it and then actually go, okay, I can make it into something fun, then I'm more aware, and I don't do it as often. So that's what's great about all the things coming out. >> Mur Lafferty: Yeah. Well, m me saying, you know what?

That extreme reaction you just had, that might be the rejection sensitivity thing that you've had your whole life, and people, including your best friends, when you were a kid, really, really criticized you for. So maybe sit back and think, is this an appropriate reaction? Can I calm down? So, I pretty much, you know, internalize all the rejection sensitivity crap, but, it's still there.

Yeah, it's bad. I like it when I see other people act on a feeling that I have, and they look like a jerk, and I think, oh, I'm right to keep that inside. Okay. And just there, long time ago, when podcasting was new, somebody was, a big. One of the first big articles to come out about it was, released, and I thought, they didn't talk to me. And then another friend I had went online and said they didn't talk to me. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I'd stay down here. I'll just stay down here and

whine to myself, to my husband. We're good. >> Mary Pasquale: Yeah. >> Mur Lafferty: The Internet does not need to hear me talk about this. But, yeah, it's. It was learning how to channel things. Now, I just tried to figure out how to dampen it a little bit, but that's the next thing. >> Mary Pasquale: Yeah. Or I also. Sometimes you just have to go away. It's like, I'll just walk away and process this and then come back and see if I'm processing this

appropriately. And do I need to verbalize it? >> Mur Lafferty: Yes. >> Mary Pasquale: You know, that's a big thing, because I know sometimes there's that you want. >> Mur Lafferty: To blurt it out, especially online. >> Mary Pasquale: It's just like, okay, don't do that. >> Mur Lafferty: We had talked about social media a tiny bit, but you were talking about

TikTok before we got started. And because I'm still afraid of tick tock, I'm asking every writer I know who seems to have a good, what's the word I'm looking for presence there. or Instagram. They're kind of the same thing right now. what do you, like, how do you approach that? Because I'm still kind of a TikTok coward. >> Mary Pasquale: So this was. I was very uncomfortable with it, too, honestly. And. But I try to. Not every day, but, you know, I try to push myself when out of my

comfort zone every once in a while. I figure it's just good practice. So I thought that I can't remember why. Somehow I convinced myself to try TikTok. I'm like, but I don't remember how I talked myself into it, but it was, I realized that if I did it the first few times, and it took a long time. It took a long time. It took many takes. It took lots of editing. I was really floundering around. I was totally scared. and then eventually I was like, you know what? And

I started watching. I think the thing that helped me is I started watching other people more and more. And there are the people that are super glam, and they never say the word, or, ah, which are my favorite words, and they can deliver great. And they're super well groomed, and ones who are just like, well, I messed that up. >> Mur Lafferty: Whoops.

>> Mary Pasquale: You know, and they're, and I'm like, that's what I need to do. I need to just embrace that I'm going to mess up, and I can be a little nerdy, and I don't mind that. And, you know, and so that's kind of what I started doing. I just started doing them faster. If I really find I, also had to learn to pause. This is a big tip. I would tell anybody who wants to get in TikTok, when you're taping yourself, pause between your sentences so that if you cut them together, I'm

still not very good at that. I still want to do the, And that's the part I'm working on. But, See, I just did it again. It's my favorite word, I think, just, doing, it off the cuff, trying to be your most authentic self, and this is who you are, and you're going to find people who like you, you know? I guess I don't have a ton of followers. I'm fairly new. I would love to have more, but I really love engaging with people and other writers and readers and, people in the community.

So that's kind of my goal for it, but I would give it a try. >> Mur Lafferty: Yeah. >> Mary Pasquale: Because this is the best thing, too. The, other thing I do is I tape on my phone with the iPhones recorder. I don't tape directly on TikTok because that's too much. Then I can look at it and decide whether I want to edit it and decide whether I would put it up or not. But if you just grow right into TikTok and you using a filter, and you're doing this and that. It's a lot.

>> Mur Lafferty: Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah. So is there anything else you want to tell us about your book or your life or social, media, mental health or TikTok or anything that we didn't mention? >> Mary Pasquale: Well, I know that you, this. This podcast will focus on beginning writers, and I just kind of want to say that I, you know, I love it when people write. I love encouraging people to write. I especially love, when young people are interested in it.

>> Mur Lafferty: Yeah. >> Mary Pasquale: And I think that I would like to say for everyone out there who thinks, well, I'd love to write, but I can't do it. We put so much emphasis on stem, on science and math, that think that those are the most important skills. but we use our words every single moment. We think in words. We're using our words constantly. We

communicate. So, to the beginning writers out there, I would say you're probably better than you think you are, because you're actually practicing words every single moment. >> Mary Pasquale: And, if anyone just wants to give it a try, I say give it a try. I really love writers and readers. >> Mur Lafferty: Excellent. Yeah, that's great. where can we find you online? >> Mary Pasquale: I have my website@marypasquel.com, you can find me there with all of my socials.

I used to blog for a long time under the handle the weird girl. So you will see the weird girl just pop up. I believe I mary the weird girl. The weird girl on Instagram. on TikTok, I'm Mary Pascual 71. So any combination of those two. But when in doubt, go to marypasquale.com and just click on any of the links on the m homepage.

>> Mur Lafferty: Excellent. Mine is murverse.com, where you can find links to the podcast, links to the, Hugo finalist semi prozine escape pod that I edit with Valerie Valdez, who's in chat, who I didn't say hello to. Hello, Valerie. Glad to see you. And, let's see. I do podcasts, I do this magazine, and I do books. Midsolar murders two is out. Now. It is called chaos, terminal. And I used to have a book to show to the camera, but I think I cleaned up, so that's bad.

But anyway, if you look it up online, you can find it. And, my next one, hopefully, will be out in April. And it is called infinite Archive. And I just turned it in today, so. Whee. thank you to the live chat, and thank you to Mary. And you guys should be writing, thank you for listening to I should be writing the longest running writing podcast in existence. This episode was made possible by the fabulous who support the podcast via

Patreon or sub stats. Join the Fabulists at patreon.com/mightymur or mightymur. substack.com theme music provided by John Anealio, art provided by Numbersninja, and podcast hosting provided by Libsyn. This episode is released under Creative Commons Attribution non commercial No derivatives 4.0 license. You can find all of my books and podcasts at murverse.com. >> Speaker B: Writing I should be submitting my next friend, but I'm sitting home watching the doctor watching Doctor who.