0106 - Who Does Bipolar Respect - Bipolar Relationships

0:00:00 - Temple
All right, welcome everybody to. I'm married bipolar. How you doing out there? We're talking about respect, because if there's one thing we know, please don't get offended at anybody. If there's one thing we know, that a manic bipolar don't respect nobody. So it's a tough one. This is a tough puzzle to put together to start thinking about. What does my partner, who does my partner or loved one respect that I could start creating a little collaboration with that? If things go off the rails or you're in the weeds that you can bring in somebody else? Do you have a relationship with their psychiatrist? Does your bipolar loved one respect their psychiatrist or their counselor or their nurse practitioner or their pastor? Who is it? Who is it? Let's start talking about that, but before we do, I wanna give some information. Bridget has a little background of things that are going on in the bipolar community, about research, and then I'm gonna tell you a little more about some things that we're coming up with for us to support you even further. So, bridget, can you share what you were telling me about earlier? 

0:01:20 - Bridget
Sure, hey everyone. So just so you guys know my background. I don't have a medical background, but I've worked in healthcare communications for my gosh like 20 years. 

So a lot of what I do is read medical research and scientific research and turn that into content that the everyday person can understand, and so I've been digging into what's going on in the bipolar research world and came across something that's super exciting. 

It's a new collective of three philanthropic groups that put together a group called Breakthrough Discoveries for Thriving with Bipolar Disorder and it's called BD2. 

And they just in September invested $150 million in bipolar disorder research, and so their vision for this group is really to help drive innovation and understanding to create new interventions, so everyone living with bipolar disorder will thrive. And they just keep reiterating on this website just their commitment to people with bipolar disorder, people who have not been diagnosed and their loved ones. And they have a three pillar research approach. So one is Discovery Grants really looking at a molecular and cellular level, what's going on in the body with bipolar disorder. They're also looking at existing tissue banks so that they can study bipolar in brain tissue, and then they're also looking to do some genetic research, and so I think it's super exciting. There is some a spotlight being put on bipolar disorder by this group. They talk about how it's been vastly underfunded, which has led to just a lack of treatment, interventions and innovation and really understanding of the condition. And so, if you go on the website, you can sign up for updates. 

You can also follow them on LinkedIn or Twitter and just kind of see what's going on in terms of what research findings they're having or what studies they've funded. And then one other resource I wanted to point people to is a site called clinicaltrialsgov, and if you are interested in being a part of research or your bipolar loved one is, then you can go on there. You can search by bipolar disorder. You can also filter that by your geographic location and try to find studies that are happening in your area that you might be able to enroll in. So I just really wanted to share kind of what's the big stuff going on in bipolar and then I hope each week, or at least a few times a month, to come back and to share what's going on in other kind of hot topics in bipolar disorder or if there are new research discoveries or new treatments approved, et cetera. So with that I'll turn it back over to Temple. 

0:04:24 - Temple
All right, great job Bridgie, our resident research nerd, and we love her because she loves to dig in and go down the rabbit hole in research. So I am really excited about what she just said because that means that there are people that give a shit about why bipolar is falling through the cracks for not getting enough treatment, not being properly diagnosed and causes prevention. That's what we're all about. So I'm really excited about that Nerd alert. What I'm really excited about, what I was telling Brigitte and Danny in our chat, is that I would love to see us be a part of that. I mean, we're a small group but we have a lot of energetic pull right and myself personally I have a really good online presence. I do have a book and my website everything has. If you Google bipolar spouse, my name will come up. So I think that we could leverage something like this and really expand our territory and get a lot more people to be able to see us and find out how valuable it is to have peer support, ongoing peer support and peer crisis support, because originally, when we started this group, I was already answering Facebook messages every day from people from my Facebook peer support group and I just kind of bubbled up to the top, as somebody that was always like, hey, I'm here, I'm awake when they're saying, oh my God, what's happening? Things are going wild, I don't know what to do. I was awake at 12, you know 12 am and 1 am and that opened up the opportunity to support people in crisis, which is something I've done throughout my life anyway. I'm just not in the bipolar realm, but the value that I saw was really significant that if you give somebody a concentrated amount of time where they have your attention when they're in crisis, then it speeds up the process of getting through the crisis. It doesn't mean that we're gonna cure the situation or bipolar, but my concern is having people mostly partners and spouses alone with a psychotic person living with bipolar and what happens there, especially with escalated mania. You know that goes into rage and even violence, and we can prevent that. We can prevent that from happening if we have time early on. 

We've seen things go on with several people where we couldn't stop it at all because we still don't have full license to just say, okay, my partner needs hospitalization right now. We're not there yet and that's why you have to make sure that you create a safety plan, like Candy has, that if she goes into an episode where she is really going to harm herself or somebody else by having too much psychosis. Candy, I'm talking about you in front of your back here, but you know you have shared with us that last big episode was really scary for you and it left a mark, and I believe that the reason you were able to create the safety plan with your husband now and your mom is so that you never have to go through that again. So that's what we want too. 

My husband has rapid cycled for many years, many years, and I've had to live with him through it many, many, many times with psychosis and without the power to get him in the hospital. So to have somebody to help you out, to have somebody let's think about that. Who do you have in your life that your partner respects enough? If you can't legally put your partner in the hospital, what can you do? Is there somebody that your partner would respect enough to say, yeah, I think you're right, I'm gonna go, bridget, is there anybody in your husband's life that if he was that sick and he wouldn't listen to you, that he would listen to somebody else? 

0:09:09 - Bridget
I mean, unfortunately he's kind of put himself on an island and you know, family situations not being ideal, he doesn't really have that support. I do think that he respects his psychiatrist. So I do think, you know, if something were bad enough and I, you know, wasn't able to persuade him, then I think you know the psychiatrist could step in. But yeah, I mean I wish I had a longer list or I wish I had someone supportive, like Candy's mom, you know, for him and for us. 

0:09:46 - Temple
Yeah, exactly so that this is something for you to think about, right, bridget? Yeah, what's the prevention? 

0:09:55 - Bridget
you know, I've been in this for however many years Doesn't mean I, you know, haven't figured out or have all the right pieces in place, so we're continually learning, right. 

0:10:06 - Temple
Absolutely. Me too. My husband doesn't have any person that he respects more than me, and he won't listen to me when it's time to go to the hospital. So, you know, I utilize his team, his counselor and his psychiatrist, and I'll get them all on the phone or get them to come over. But he certainly doesn't respect systems, you know, like the legal system. He's been to jail for being bipolar, and so he really does not respect systems. So these are. This is brainstorming. Okay, I'm not giving you answers. I'm just saying we need to think about this because prevention is key. Just because you might be living stable right now Doesn't mean there's not an episode in the future, and it could be a scary one. Sometimes people go years without a cycle and then they have one of the worst ones, okay. So I'm not trying to throw fear, but prevention really is key. So think about that you guys. Who are the people that you think could have a conversation with your partner when they're the most sick? That could give them some help. Hi, paula, where you been? 

0:11:20 - Paula
I have been in the depression. End of this cycle, the same cycle. Yeah Well, what goes up must come down. 

0:11:30 - Temple
Well, how a sense. I mean, that was months ago when he went manic. 

0:11:35 - Paula
As the weather started to change, he started to take a nosedive. Alcohol has come back, not in excess, I think. Alcohol scares him. So look, at the end of the day, I had to call a doctor in. Yeah, so I did it. Called in his doctor when he was manic and then I had to activate the emergency plan again and your emergency plan looks like what the emergency plan is doctor. So we have an emergency plan. That doctor is one-on-one. So when I activate that plan and I email that doctor, that doctor has an immediate appointment. He makes contact directly. So I have a really good ace in the hole with our doctor. Yes, and he's a doctor. So it's not like he has a million clients that he's juggling. He's juggling a select few people who are able to pay him. So I feel bad because other people don't have that available to him. I do. 

0:12:43 - Temple
Yeah, and that makes sense, but we can't feel bad that you have a resource that helps your partner. That is amazing. It's our system that's flawed. 

0:12:56 - Paula
right, it definitely is because these people I mean the people who are really good you really have to be on the ready. You have to have a doctor on the ready, meaning you call, they're on the phone, not you call, and their office is on the phone, exactly. 

0:13:15 - Temple
Yeah, it took a while for me to get everybody's emails. They didn't want to give me their emails the psychiatrist and the counselor and I was like, look, I need to be able to tell somebody what's going on and you have to be able to get it like either that day or by the next morning. You're not going to get your fucking voicemail and then get back to me five days later. 

0:13:35 - Paula
You know Well, sure, because sometimes that phone call is the difference between crisis and crisis averted. 

0:13:43 - Temple
Exactly. 

0:13:45 - Paula
Yes. And because, if for nothing else, at least when I activate that he knows I'm serious. 

0:13:52 - Temple
Yeah, and I know your husband respects you, paula. 

0:13:56 - Paula
He does. But I got to tell you something not for nothing, girls, I'll take mania over depression on any given day, because depression I just want to. 

0:14:04 - Temple
Wait a minute. No, shut your mouth, paula. You better take that back right now. I'm sure I know how dare you. 

0:14:11 - Paula
I mean, I've seen that Like I've seen him that low, that it's scary, it's infuriating, oh Is he stuck? 

0:14:19 - Temple
Is he stuck on the mattress island? 

0:14:22 - Paula
Well, no, yeah, and you know what I think it is it becomes the caregiver. That's why, when you were saying that earlier, I was like, oh, I tuned in on the right night because there is no other word. Like I feel like the maid, the cook. You know he's night eating. He's got to be up 35 pounds easily. I can't, you know, I'm helpless to stop it, but it's like a constant. Like I can't keep groceries in this house, I can't. So it's been crazy. 

0:14:52 - Temple
Well, I'm glad you're here, paula, we've missed you. Believe me, you're still in my thoughts and in my prayers a lot. All right, paula, we love you and you know, I'm really glad that Paula brought that up, because you don't know what is going on inside people's homes. You know Mania. For me, mania is much worse because my husband has schizoaffected, so it's psychosis all day, every day. But for somebody you know, like Claire, you know, when her husband goes into depression, it's just like what Paula said. It's caregiving 24, seven. Hey, can you get up? Come on, let's get you some breakfast, okay, after breakfast. Oh, you're going back to bed, you sure, let's go for a walk. You want to get up? Hey, can you vacuum, come on. You know my I have to do that with my spouse, no matter what cycle. 

But I do really understand that caregiving mode when they're depressed, you almost think, okay, gosh, here comes the relief. You know I'm not going to be having that energy coming at me. But then it's the again polar opposite where it's instead of you defending yourself against the energy, now it's pulling at you, right, it's draining your life force because you want to love them up out of this. So these are symptoms. This is nothing personal. These are symptoms that Paula's husband's been going through and they've been working really hard to try to find the balance, obviously and they're paying top dollar for a good psychiatrist. Even then it can get very sad and very heartbreaking and very ugly. So prevention, prevention, prevention. Try to keep your team up to speed and catch it early. Okay, thank you, paula, for sharing. Dani, why are you joining Princess Leia? What is that? 

0:16:48 - Dani
I am putting Princess Leia, because Princess Leia is a very powerful person and she handles a lot. And I just felt like when you were talking about the forces defending and then taking and pulling the energy, all I could think was Princess Leia. 

0:17:04 - Temple
yes, I love it. Use the force, yes, and you know what our magic force is that we use here. Support, here's support, creating tribes. You know Care bears. Thank you. Yes, Care bears, being care bears, finding people that care enough to pick up the phone or answer a message and don't shame you for being in the position that you're in, but help empower you to find solutions and just to restore you. I mean. A lot of times, Bridget and Dani and I, we don't. We talk about the stupidest stuff, and we are. We have our little mod squad and we have to check in about what we're gonna talk about or whatever, but mostly it's about the stupid stuff. You know, Like daddy gives me an update on how many nails she breaks in a week, you know. Temple. How dare you share my secrets like that? 

But I need to know that it's important, you know, because it's a nothing connection, it's not emotionally charged, it's just a way for us to connect. I mean, they get to see me on Marco Polo when I've got, you know, my hair wrapped up in some kind of weird panty-do wrap thing, and it's a way to connect without it having to be an emotional charge. We have to, you know, we have to un-battery ourselves. We're always charged up, ready to go, ready to react. So it's important that you make connections with people that you can just be like oh, you broke all your nails this week. That is ridiculous, you know. Or, oh, look at me, I'm running around in my underwear today because I can't seem to get all the way dressed to get my chores, just the dumb stuff. It's important because everything else is too serious. The reason I'm coughing, you guys will be proud of me. 

But I sat in the car last night after I had to go run an errand and I just like karaokeed by myself in the car as loud as I could to Adele, because I've been sick for a month with sinus, whatever sinus, and allergy function, whatever's been happening. I've been on everything to clear this up and I just started singing as loud as I could and just hacking and hacking and hacking, because my chest is just weighted down. When I had to move my husband into the assisted living facility, I literally just felt like there was a ton of bricks on my chest. You know, you know how emotions turn into physical responses and that's what it felt like. It felt like somebody punched me in the face, right in the nose, like life just punched me in the nose and a ton of bricks just landed on my chest and I felt so heavy and congested. 

But it is cleared up, and so I started singing as loud as I could because I'm gonna get this stuff out of me. I don't want my body holding on to the pain. You have to do some things that are a little uncomfortable to shake it off, and it doesn't mean that it's not still serious, but you do. I do want you to be aware of what's happening in your body, where you might be holding things, when you're going through like transactional, symptomatic things with your partner. Speaking of that, Krystal, was that enough time? 

0:20:37 - Krystal
Yes, it was perfect. 

0:20:38 - Temple
Okay. So, Krystal, I wanna talk to you because you have been our token crisis support this last week. 

0:20:47 - Krystal
Yeah. 

0:20:48 - Temple
And you've been so good. You've been so good about reaching out, keeping us in the loop, and Dani and Brigitte and I have had an opportunity to support you. While he's symptomatic, still trying to get to the place where he's taking action for treatment, and I sent you a podcast. The podcast yeah from. Gabe Howard. I love him. 

You know who Gabe Howard is. He's got a podcast called Inside Bipolar. Anyway, the one that he's doing now. I've been listening to him for several years, but the one he's doing now is really digestible. Before he was doing one with somebody else that had schizophrenia and so it was really just like symptom talk, symptom talk. And now he's doing a podcast with somebody with a psychiatrist and it's a little more inclusive. You know to where I feel like, oh wow, I'm taking away something that I can use to integrate with my bipolar loved one, and the one that I recently sent was around. 

I think it was raging, rage and anger, managing rage and anger with bipolar, and what he talked about was what candy talked about is are there other people that can intercede when your partner is getting to the stage of mania that they can't hear you anymore, that you become a trigger? Is there anybody else that can have a little intervention that they respect enough to say something to your partner that says like I'm very concerned about how you're feeling right now? It's apparent to me that we need to get you more support, and now would be a great time for you to let us help you. So let's get in the car and let's head over to the hospital saying that said those sentences right, there are really hard to get out when you yourself Are in fight. Flight or freeze or fawn, right, but really you're mostly in fight or freeze are the two that happen For the partners, because you don't know what the hell to do and you're just wide eyed running around the room trying to figure out how do I rally, try to feed him, try to? 

You know you want to hop in the shower. Do you want to go for a walk? And I give you a list of things to do. Do you know? Do you need to have sex? Like we just go through all the things and then Nothing's happening. So he's still calling you all the names and it's your fault, and then you might start to fight. Okay, and so Crystal I'm talking about you in front of your back that Crystal gets into fight mode because she takes it personal, right? Yeah, so we did. We did get to work through that this week, though. 

0:23:43 - Krystal
Now I mean, it felt amazing in that, like I needed to be like held, because really what happens is that these are the moments were for some reason not. No, it's not for some reason. What happens is that I'm full of anger and I'm full of resentment, so I feel the bravest. And so in those moments is when I'm like hey, I'm sick of your shit, or like don't talk, like it's really like I have to be my own hero in a way. However, that's the worst time to do it, because I'm not going to be received, I'm not going to be heard, and it absolutely backfires and it just becomes this exhausting emotional cycle of him and I going back and forth, when really I shouldn't be having the conversation at all because it's bipolar. But I don't know better, because I still want to be, you know, seen and validated in some capacity. But that's my journey in understanding my or setting boundaries that way. But I mean, yeah, if it wasn't for Temple and Bridget and Dani just helping me through this last weekend, it was a shit show, but we're on the mend. It's just a matter of now really sticking to it, because I have an issue, too, of distinguishing my partner from illness. So, even though we're on a good wave right now. Could it be, you know, hypomania talking to me, a little bit sweet talking me, or what have you? I don't know. But I mean, I'm not going to focus on those details. What I do know is that I just left it like with temples, schooling and teaching. I try to keep my communications really clear and really tight and just like you know what, here are your resources, here are the numbers. Go ahead and call them, see which one gets you the fastest appointment. I left and I come back and he made the phone calls and he got an appointment and we went in yesterday and met with a financial, you know, advisor and so basically now we're starting to process all over again in our new county. 

So for that I'm thankful for I'm just trying to ride out this, this period, until the third is when he gets an evil, even though I know he has hesitations with medication. At the very least, if I can have him do some type of therapy and counseling to really understand trigger management and coping, that is enough help for me in the moment to at least get a little closer to stability. And also in the meantime I found therapy myself. I just had a. I just ended my therapy with this new person prior to our support group, so we'll see how it goes, but it's really just instilling the safety plan right? What is my safety plan? 

So I really have to remind myself that all the time during this process is too often do I get consumed in not only the caregiving role but to just almost enable to, or it's just like I'm constantly just on edge, like what do you need? What do you need, like temple was saying, and sometimes all the things are there and sometimes that's just not enough. Or it's not that it's not enough, it's just not what's needed because you can't reason right. So that's my summary. 

0:26:56 - Temple
Yes, you know that's a. That's a great summary, because that's exactly what we need to hear is that you know you're still a human person, that that gets hurt when somebody says crappy things to you. Hyper sexuality can be a weapon of destruction on you because it makes your self esteem deteriorate. You know, if you think you're not going to satisfy your partner enough, maybe if I just did a little more, did a little something, you know you're going to burn out you know? 

0:27:34 - Krystal
Yeah, that's a symptom that I'm really trying to navigate carefully. It's still like a problem. 

0:27:41 - Temple
I guess he's way it's an untreated symptom, is what it is. 

0:27:46 - Krystal
Yeah, yeah, because then what? Like you know, over the weekend it was totally turned against me. I'm, I'm not enough, it's the only complaint, la dee, da, and it's like knowing full well. I'm like no, no, no, no, that's that's, that's bullshit, you're just being defensive or whatever the case is. But it just makes it feel that much more layered because I mean, eventually I would love to seek like counseling for that stuff too, but I just again I go back and forth with the dance of like illness, person, persons needs by polar needs, like who am I to face or who do I put to the forefront? You know, but while he's still not treated, I still have to be really aggressive in treating bipolar first. 

0:28:30 - Temple
So I'm really hoping that he's not only compliant but that something can come from this, because at this rate it's a monthly basis, you know so Right, you know, I I'm just really proud of you and I'm not saying that it, you know, in a motherly way I'm I'm proud of you, just woman to woman that you started to see. That it clicked in that this is your safety plan to. And it's important if you create a safety plan and immediately we think, well, yes, my bipolar love one needs a safety plan so we can get them help, but it's your safety plan. If they don't agree to a safety plan, then you have to create your own. And that I heard that and I felt it sink in when you finally said okay, yes, this is, this is for me, this is what I have to do to feel safe. And the more you can, all of us anchor that in that it's your safety plan to. 

And you might have two completely different safety plans. They might not agree to your safety plan. If you're saying I'm not gonna have sex with you 10 times a day and that's your safety plan, they might not agree to that. While they're symptomatic, but that's an untreated symptom. And if you do any research on hypersexuality, it'll become clear to you that it's not healthy sex. They're not really even enjoying it. If you have to have sex 10 times in a row and you still feel unsatisfied at the end of it. Does that sound like you're having a good time, or does it sound like aggression and compulsion and the way addiction feels? 

0:30:21 - Krystal
The latter yeah. And so I also need to figure out how to talk about that stuff, because even that is a skill to build how to gently, kindly, I don't know just say like hey, not just no means no, but just stop taking it personally. What you're acting on is compulsion, but I don't want to say, I can't say that, but it's just like. This is a weird thing to navigate. 

0:30:51 - Temple
I understand that and I think, because I've been talking about it so much, that my clinical brain has kind of taken over and I don't take it personally anymore. As a matter of fact, you inspired me, crystal, to have the conversation again with my husband, because we do talk about it a lot, I bring it up a lot. He's very shy. He's not sexually experienced, if anything, he's the opposite. He's only had a couple partners in his life and I'm the one who, you know, loved sex and loved lots of men and had all the fun. But so hypersexuality is very uncomfortable for him. But if I see his phone is on Instagram and he's following like 25 girls with big butts, then I'm like, oh, you're having hypersexuality right now. It's a symptom. Now where are we going with that? Do you say that to him? I absolutely do. I couldn't. Before. I used to get pissed when he would obsessively watch porn and I'm like, get the fuck off of there. That is disgusting. Look at what you're looking at, dude. That is sick. That's how it initially started, because I didn't know. But now you know this is 13 years later. 

I say, while he's in his symptom honey, I think we need to delete Instagram right now and your social media. Let's delete your apps because I don't want an Instagram hooker to take your debit card. I've got your debit card but you know, for all I know, he could have it written down somewhere or whatever, and he goes okay, yep, you're right, I don't want to do that. So we've had the conversation enough times and I've reiterated enough times that this is not. I'm not trying to embarrass you. I just want to protect you that things can go really sideways and you might not even remember what happens, because if you're hypersexual and I do something that makes you mad and you say I just don't want to be with you, we're getting divorced and you run off, you're probably not going to put a condom on, and then what do you think is going to happen? You can pick up a virus or an STD or pregnancy, and those things are very difficult to recover from. So I would rather have an uncomfortable conversation than to have to deal with the consequences of what hypersexuality could do to your life. 

So I talked to him just like that, crystal, not like his wife. Like oh my God, if you were to sleep with somebody, I would just die. It's not like that, it's very clinical. Listen, you know what can happen. You've already seen it. Bipolar can take over. You can make compulsive decisions. It can cost you a lot. So if you feel like you just feeling horny is normal, that's natural. Okay, if you feel horny and it won't shut off, then we need to talk and we need to take some safety measures. Okay, by deleting some social media, by getting the computer away, you know, not stimulating the symptom even further by having sex 10 times a day and then you dry out and dry up and he's like okay, we'll give me something else then if you're not in. 

0:34:10 - Krystal
Right, because then the conversation for me starts turning into like dude, I can't be your only outlet, and not even just in that way. I'm not saying that way, but just in general, because I think there's also just a high level of codependency happening. So it's like I need you to also be proactive in finding ways to stimulate yourself. And so lately it's been like we're being more active, so there's like community yoga, joining a gym and doing things of that nature and we're trying to like navigate the space that way. But yeah, he'll tell me that shit. 

Where it's just like I'm afraid to ask you, I'm afraid to talk to you, because I got my own preexisting issues with it, with the, you know, when it comes to sex and stuff. But it's like even that it's it's, it's a, it's a relational thing, but it's still at the forefront, it's a bipolar thing still, because it's it's never enough. And then it becomes weaponized and then, yeah, just like you said, the whole that's basically what happened or wanted to happen last weekend where it's just like I'm not satisfied and I'm just going to leave. I'm like what the fuck are you saying? 

0:35:13 - Temple
Like what and you know what. And let's okay, let me help you with this piece because I mean, this wasn't what the topic was about, but it's important. It keeps coming up. You said you have to find another way to stimulate yourself. But I need you to think the other way. You need to find a way to unstimulate yourself because he's overstimulated, there's too much dopamine. It's going on and on and on and on. That's why you can't get satisfied, because you have sex and then you get more dopamine when you have sex and then you have sex again and then you masturbate and then you watch porn and then more dopamine and more dopamine. 

So the safety measure is to unstimulate, to use other parts of your brain, like the creative side, like, do you, you know what's your favorite music? Let's put on some music, let's dance, let's color, let's do a puzzle. You, you know you have to create other ways to stimulate the mind. That is not sexual, that's not going to ramp them up even more. You know, don't go to casino and start gambling. We got to decrease the dopamine hits. So let's think about how to unstimulate symptoms and bring them back down to bipolar stable. It's difficult for you right now, crystal, because he doesn't have a team. Okay, you are really just like flying blind right now. You've got us, you've got in your counselor now, thank God, and you know, but you don't have medical support to get his brain to unclick out of that. So he's really suffering. 

0:36:57 - Krystal
Yeah, so that's why I'm just, like you said, just sticking to my safety plan as far as, like, what feeds me, what nurtures me. I can only do so much, and I know I've said that before from the previous time, but I'm just I'm looking at it a little, a lot differently. So I'm keeping my expectations realistic and also being a little more diligent in my communication with bipolar. 

0:37:25 - Temple
Good and your communication with yourself, because that's the conversation that you're going to have with your counselor is where did my self value go? You know? 

0:37:34 - Krystal
Yeah, so lots of things, lots of things from pack. 

0:37:39 - Temple
Yeah Well, we love you and we really hold you high. Watch that he makes it to that appointment. Remember, that's only the first step If he is to get treatment there's. You got all that processes ahead of you too. So just don't think about the long row. Just just what's your safety plan? It's okay for you to say no. It's also okay for you to set a boundary on him, that there are consequences to what you, just what you allow bipolar to do. 

I'm, I'm here to intercede, do you? 

Is there somebody you want me to call that needs to talk to you? Do you want Temple to call you? I mean, we did talk about that and I wanted to bring that up too, because I have talked to the spouses. But here's what happens they get in front of me and then they just kind of melt and like the real them comes out and they're just like oh, I don't want to do this to my partner, I don't want to do this to my wife. I hate it, I want to feel better and I go gosh. I know, I know you do. 

So let's talk about a safety plan and you know, let's, let's move some energy around this, let's get grounded. We talk about some techniques and then they get away from me and they go back to what was triggering them, or they're right in front of their spouse that was triggering them, okay. So they become their trigger when they're manic and things go off the rails anyway. So even if I could intercede, it's a temporary fix. You, as the spouse, have to know how to deescalate and how to have those tough conversations within the moments that you need the most. That's why I'm better to coach you to do it than for me to show up and talk to your spouse. Does that make sense? 

0:39:27 - Krystal
Yes, complete sense, and I mean he has mentioned it too. Just in general, like I want to be a part of this, I would love to talk to Temple and that's coming from his own but I'm just gonna play by ear as we move forward, because honing my skills is, I think, more important than kind of you coming in for the crisis, I mean, and I would talk to him any day. 

0:39:54 - Temple
I mean, I've talked to Danny's husband a few times. I absolutely adore him. It didn't stop what was happening, okay, because Danny had to set her own boundaries. I couldn't be there 24-7. It was only a temporary relief. She's like, oh good, sitting in front of the screen and talk to Temple for an hour. It gave her an hour off, but then they get away from me and then they're right back to being triggered. So it is truly a family illness from the inside out. And that's why this all started, because I was left alone with my sick husband and they told me nobody was coming. So I realized that that is just the way it is, and so we have to learn to set our own safety plans and set our own boundaries and be able to have these awkward conversations just fluently, without hesitation, without feeling embarrassed. 

Thank you, honey. I'm gonna take your phone. I'm gonna just delete these Instagram hookers right off your phone right now. Just move on. It's no big deal. I love you. Here you go. Kids are getting smoochy, smoochy. Here's your phone back. Why don't you play a game instead? It's not personal, it really is not. And gosh, this has been such a good conversation so far, don't you think everybody? Donna, I wanna give you an opportunity to say hello to us, donna. Hi, are you there? Hi, everybody, hi, good to see you, donna. We miss you. 

0:41:25 - Donna
I'm good to see you too. When I'm reading the title who Does Bipolar Respect? And my immediate thought is this is all just fucking bullshit. Like it respects nobody. You know, I look back and I've talked to escorts, I've talked to pimps, I've talked to hookers. You know he's, I think I told you. Every time that I even have any contact with him he threatens to take me to court. As you know, he's filed two different restraining orders. Both have been dismissed, thankfully, and he can't really hold it together for that. And I've seen him once for three minutes and he backed up and said don't come near me. You know you shouldn't be around me right now. And I look back at the relationship I had, him so respectful, and you know the polar opposite. Imagine, like actually you don't have to imagine I'm just at a place where I'm just like this is so fucked up. 

0:42:22 - Temple
You know, and that's that's why we need to clarify this right, because, I mean, I have to say who does bipolar respect? Because it's in the title, it's marketing, but we already know that a unstable, symptomatic bipolar isn't going to respect much of anybody. They just want what they want. But who does your person respect is what we need to think about. You know, like Candy said, I respect my mom, no matter what, whether she's sick or not sick. There is a, there is a, you know, a subconscious reaction to her mother's voice that tells her I need help and I'm going to do what this person says. So you know, I understand you had that person. 

0:43:08 - Donna
He has a strong survival game and he's a strong denial game and the couple of people that I asked to reach out to him that I know he has respect for, the answer is always stay out of it or the friends are like, well, I don't really want to go there. I just want to be there to support him. You know he's he's definitely rapid cycling right now. He's still sick. When I saw him, I you know it was this off on moment where I thought I can't help him. Yeah, like I am the last person. 

He, I mean he is so agitated towards me and you know, and he's telling people now, well, I was in a bad place when I was in that relationship with her and she's a morphine addict and yada, yada, yada, whatever. And I think how you can't, you can't fight that, and that I think that's the hard part is the complete lack of respect. And you know I can go with symptoms, it's illness, but I think really, you're a person who loved and respected me and now, like, you're doing everything you can to discredit me at a level. And you know, yes, it's not personal, but yeah, it's fucking personal because it's my life Absolutely. 

0:44:20 - Temple
Absolutely. It is, donna. It is personally affecting and has dismantled your relationship, and what really sucks is that you know you now, like me, and and Danny, were frontliners because the the things that are in place weren't strong enough to be able to intercede in our spouse's illness, to be able to bring them back to a safe place, and that's the only one that can. 

0:44:52 - Donna
He's the only one that can put away the white flag. And and he he did in our relationship was like, okay, I'm doing this, I've talked to my psychiatrist, but I feel like he was just jumping through the hoops to show the you know the custody arrangement with his kids, like I'm doing everything I'm supposed to do. It was the fear part of it. When all was said and done, one of the things he said to me that really sticks with me is I went to talk to him and you know I was very good at keeping that clinical conversation and staying out of the bipolar conversations with him and I just said I just want to talk to you. And he said if you come near me with that diagnosing, look, I'll leave. And I just, I just took a step back and I said I'm just, I'm making sure you're okay. 

He doesn't want anybody that doesn't buy into his illness. And you know the new mania girl buys into his illness enormously. So I feel like he's at this point, I feel like at some point there's a choice. You know he's not crazy manic running around like he was. Is he rapid cycling like Lee's? He's still paranoid. Obviously. That's the hard part of this disease of the the over, like who are you right this second? And laying eyes on him and seeing he's he's not my Dave, he's cause he would have collapsed if he saw me and he was okay because he would have realized what he did. But he's still agitated and it's, you know, had to be me. Yeah, I guess the point is now is like I need to respect myself enough to to really just shut it down with him. 

0:46:25 - Krystal
And. 

0:46:25 - Donna
I have. I've made no emails, no texts, no like, because anytime I reached out to him, he was coming after me legally. Legally, because, you know, being a lawyer, he goes into what he calls lawyer mode and you know, ironically, when he did the second restraining order, because I saw him for three minutes, he filed it two hours after I saw him and literally it was three minutes and I walked away. You know excessive, but he was, he was doing it to keep me in line. Like he's a bully. 

You know this this way that he is in this disease right now. He's a bully. It's like I'm come, you know, I'm going to come after you. Well, I, you know, he used to say we will never let him serve you. So I took his legal advice and I never let him serve me. I was out of town, I purposely extended a trip out of town because I was like, yeah, you told me, never let him serve me, fuck you. Like you know, there's, there's that little part in me now that's, that's a little angry and maybe that's good. But yeah, I feel like it respects nothing. I mean, he's, he's lost his children to this disease and he still won't go get treatment. So I feel like he doesn't even respect himself. 

0:47:32 - Temple
And we don't know, when you say he's at some kind of choice, I personally don't think that they are in choice at that at that point. So but what? What I can reflect is what Crystal has just gone through is that you have to have your safety plan right, which he's he's tried to. You know you could have gone to jail, so you have to have your safety plan in place. You've tried absolutely everything to get through to him in the most loving, kind, respectful, neutral, critical way, and it's resulted in, you know, an attack back on you from him and from the girlfriend. And so this is time for you to just anchor into your safety plan. You know not having to dodge serve papers. You know legal papers that's. It's only a matter of time before something happens to you where you're the one that's paying the price for his illness. 

0:48:37 - Donna
Yeah, I've already paid the price I like, like, like all of you have, in a lot of ways. 

0:48:42 - Temple
Exactly. Well, I like what you said at the end there, that what you can do is respect yourself. Yeah, and we respect you, donna. You're very we know the truth that you are a loving partner, that you married him with only good intentions to support him in his diagnoses, and that you were prepared to stay with him in sickness and in health, through anything, till the end. That's what you've been trying to do. So if there's ever a moment that you think you haven't done enough, I want you to replay this and hear me say that you have done everything in your power. 

0:49:23 - Donna
Yeah, thank you. 

0:49:24 - Temple
Support good women as recovery. Yeah, thank you. All right, we love you. Okay, we're gonna wrap it up. It has been a really good conversation today. Do you all feel like we had a very clarifying conversation today? Give me some thumbs up or something how you feel you guys. All right, we talked about some deep stuff today, danny, you all right? 

0:49:49 - Dani
Yeah, we had big girl conversations today, or like adult, real adult conversations today, and you know what? We are still here, we are still surviving, so we have each other and I absolutely could not love you guys more. So you guys are doing an amazing job. 

I identified so much with your story, crystal, and I know we've talked like several times over the past week and same Donna Like at a point, if they don't help themselves, like you have to know where your limit is and you have to make that deal with yourself to be safe and then you never know what can happen. Like energy is infinite and when you're connected, you're connected. So just stay positive and if you guys need anything, please feel free to reach out. I love you guys so much. This is our group, you guys, this is our freaking group that we made. We're amazing. 

0:50:52 - Temple
And so it is. That was a perfect closing, danny. I was giving you your energy by background, because you are sending your love out. Stay in touch, don't do this alone, ok, so we love you.