Hello and welcome to our last, my sister, the advice podcast, where the cosmic meets the corporate. I am Ellen Hooper, executive coach, and I'm joined by my sister, Mads Williams, human design coach. And we're really excited to have you back this week.
we're so excited. We had a little hiatus cause I had to move house and move country prematurely. Or no, what's the word temporarily. I'm very jet lagged. Um, and. I'm now joining us from sunny Perth.
Excellent. How's Western Australia treating you?
It's so good. It's funny. Like, you know, we're closer, but we still, um, have to stay on brand and not be in the same room. You are in Melbourne. I'm over here, but I am having such a magical time and I have been on record before for maybe not giving Perth the shout out it deserves, but I don't know. I've heard once someone say, you know, , when you're somewhere, you just enjoy that for all that it is. It's not trying to, get the beach in London or get the city life when I'm here.
And, and I think that is such obvious advice, but it's so nice and just really celebrating what you have. So I'm having a gorge time
Do you know what I've been thinking about Perth recently, or what I've noticed about Perth? I think if you're from a smaller place, you like, are really aware of your homegrown local stars. So, Mum was in Melbourne with me. And she was like, Oh my gosh, Tim Minchin wrote Groundhog Day. We must go. And I was like, yeah, of course we're like Tim Minchin, good Perth boy. Let's go. We don't need any other information.
And I just think if you're like from Melbourne or Sydney or like London or New York, you're not like, Oh, , that's a New Yorker.
It's like a big extended family. Like, Oh, of course we will support our third generation cousin.
absolutely. And like, we have no, secondary connections to Tim Inchen, but I know when people are from Perth. Um,
how are you going over there though? Are you having a cosmic or a corporate week?
I think I've been having a bit of a cosmic week. I've been doing this somatic workout. I reckon I talk about this all the time, but I've actually been kind of committed and I've done about two weeks in a row and I just feel like all my emotions are very close to the surface.
You did just totally lose it at me before.
Oh, you were being very annoying. So that's unrelated to my healing journey.
joyful. So that doesn't, that's frustrating. That's on you.
Yeah. I've just been like done a lot of crying this week, but not in a sad way, just in a like release way, sometimes that actually,
Mm-Hmm.
Yeah. So it's been a bit, of a new experience for me. Like when people say to me, how are you at the moment? I've just been kind of saying weird,
Mm-Hmm.
don't want to be like, I'm great, unless I don't care about you and then I'll tell you I'm great. but yeah, I try not to say I'm good. If I'm not, I'm also not bad. I'm just like, Ooh, this is new territory. I reckon. All right, have you had a cosmic week or a corporate week?
I have had a very cosmic week cause I've been up in the clouds, which I. I love to do, I love being on flights , and watching out the window. I feel a little, unhinged, but that's not uncommon.
what I said to you on your first day in Australia.
you said that I was energetically functioning or like energetically high, cognitively low. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we had planned to record that day. So to be honest, I don't know if four days in I'm any better, but we'll see how we go. But I saw you and the kids in Melbourne, which is incredible. And I just love that city so much. It's so great. But I was having this amazing feeling of just reassurance where again, like I was.
Explaining at the top, you can have so much love for a place or a person or a situation or a job, but still know it's not right for you. And I was having that experience of like, yes, I'm just in love with my life choices. And, for that reason, I can dip in and really celebrate this and then getting to Perth and just being in the ocean, which Not to be like dramatic, but it felt orgasmic, you know, like getting in your hometowns, I roll from the sister, but it does feel like that.
It's such a, like, I don't know, jolt to the system and, and a release. And, I wasn't expecting it. Like I've obviously been swimming in the ocean since I left, but it's nearly two years since I was in this ocean. And it was fucking special. And then Over the course of the last year, I've really, really, really, really, really worked hard on bringing music back into my life. And I dance all the time and I'm getting better at singing. Oh, okay.
I've still felt very inhibited by the fact that I live around roommates and I don't want them to hear what music I'm listening to. I don't want them to know I'm listening to one particular song and repeat for five days in a row. Like, so I felt like that part of my, Oh, it changes all the time. But at the moment I'm, I just am late to the party, but I just finished Daisy Jones. So I'm like, Going hard on that soundtrack that you haven't, you don't know anything about. So don't
no, nothing. Yeah. I'll catch up with it in a few years time. And then I'll be like, Oh my God, have you seen this amazing TV show?
and I will watch it again with you. I've got mom watching it with me. I'm like, yes, I'm a sicko like that. I finished something and then I rinse and repeat till I'm sick of it. But being at home, I have not bothered about. How that's imposing on mom and dad. So I've just been like walking around with my music and singing and it's felt so good.
And I, it kind of reminds me that when I was a teenager, I used to always shower with the radio on and I would sing all the time and I've been driving the car and honestly. And, before I left, I, I obviously had a car, but I never sang. I'd pull up to the lights and I'd turn the volume down. Like I was really self conscious about anything related to music or noise. It kind of feels like a metaphor for life. Like I was always like, who's around? Is it cool?
What like, it was like my biggest shame. So it's been just like, Oh. Dancing around , in my undies with my, with my silly, like repeated songs. It feels so great. And I actually had a thought last night. I think when I get back to London, I might start taking singing lessons.
Yeah. Interesting. Did you ever do that as a kid?
No, because I was always told I was out of range like by people in the choir. So I think that's where the shame started, but like you, you are involved in a lot of choirs and I think you like the group activity, but I actually think for me it's like the solo activity and not for anything other than like, maybe this is just a little joy activity that I'm going to take on board.
Yeah. That's really fun. Sounds good. All right, you have a question for me?
in human design. We all have a personality profile and that explains how we see ourselves, but then paradoxically how other people see us. And they're always different, and it's so cool when you start diving into those tools, because then actually you get perspective on, on both, and then you do start seeing yourself more 360. I, I believe but a big part of your personality profile can point to the ways that you learn, but also the ways that you.
Externalize and share or how you share with people, what kinds of people are they, people that are close to you? Are they strangers? It's like all those things can be wrapped up in this information. And I am in the process of launching my coaching programs through looking for air signs, which is my human design work. And it's feeling a little foreign to me because that. Platform is for others. It's for clients, but my personality profile is really internal.
So essentially I investigate, I get really obsessed and I go really deep in learning. And then the way people see me is really experimenting with life and learning that way. But it's all about. How I do it. And so that profile has a lot about curating and kind of sticking in your lane and just doing the things that you love.
And so if I was to give advice to a client, I would say, you know, focus on that first Because actually it's the stuff you're interested in and the stuff you're doing that people are magnetized to anyway, but yeah, I'm just having this like real glitch in my brain where I know it's a limiting belief. I know it's imagined, but I'm like, Oh, the only way to be successful on this business platform is to create reels. And then my brain goes, but I don't know how to create reels.
And then it goes like, and I don't know what people want or need because. I'm not really designed to, it's all about what do I do and how do I do it? So I just am curious, like from an outside perspective, what you hear when you're like, Oh, cool. My self involved sister's now trying to show up for her client base. And how I could kind of get over this hump of no reels, meaning I'm a bit paralyzed.
Yeah, I think I've swung a bit on this kind of idea because I think conventional business wisdom is like you know, who's your target market and try to make that as niche and narrow as possible because then that'll be easier to like, target them and find them and and then like go and interview them and find out exactly what they, Want and then like build the thing that they want and I do think that's really good advice for like, I can only think of a tampon company as an example.
Chill. Yep.
But, there's just something really interesting about that making a lot of kind of conventional sense for a company that's filled with thousands of people versus, What makes sense when you are your brand and you are your service and you are your product. And I'm kind of leaning towards now, like when you are your brand and you are your service and you are your product, then the most important thing is energy management.
I think it works better to make things, sell things and provide services in the way that's just like. Has the most ease and is the most joyful for you because, yeah, there's Cat Howe, who has a book called Magic Source Codes, she's like, well, people used to buy things before the internet, and they still do and they still will. And I also have just personally found on a more practical level. , it takes a lot and it costs a lot to use social media really effectively to generate revenue.
And it works really well for specific things. I think it is the easiest to use it for things that don't cost very much. And when I think about what I Have kind of been sucked into buying on social media. It's usually a product, like a physical thing, and it's usually not that expensive. And so, yeah, like if you don't want to make reels, don't make reels. But then you do have to be like, okay, well, how do I want to actually bring clients in? Because there's lots of different ways to do that.
It's interesting as well. I've got a couple of things running through my head and they're really human design specific, but, there's this notion as generators that the thing that people are buying from you is not really the service. It's your joy. It's your alignment. And so it's a really good point what you said about energy management, because If you're more yourself, you're going to attract the right people. That's just kind of one on one of like attracts like, , and so that's a good.
Really good prompt for me to go away and think, what's easeful here, but the other thing is, you know, I'm a big talker. I love to speak. We have a podcast, but a huge part of my design is that I do have this, um. wisdom to share, but it was part of this channel where you go out and you listen and you cultivate all this wisdom from the outside world and you go away and that turns into almost like legend to then go and spit out and share with the tribe again.
So as you were talking, I was like, I just want to do that. I just want to kind of share my learnings. And that will then hopefully be helpful for people. And that doesn't have to maybe look and feel as like design jazz hands as I'm imagining all these amazing influencer reels will be, but it will at least be real to me.
my friend and. Excellent. Branding coach of mine, Nicole Hathaway has this great phrase that is that your work doesn't speak for itself.
we've talked about that before, but I will again, cause it's awesome.
So good. Cause it is like, okay, you need to do good work. You need to have something that's worthwhile and you can't just kind of sit alone in the corner doing good work. You also have to tell people about it some ways.
I'm glad you said that again, because It just landed for me like, Oh yes, don't let the, not doing the reels, be the sabotage to not show up, And I think we do that all the time of like, Ooh, I'm going to fixate on this one thing. And if it's not done, then we'll, of course I can't get clients or of course I can't launch properly. But actually, again, it's just a little investigating on what, where you're scared and where that comes from.
Becomes a really nice get out of jail free card to not have to act. And I do think as well, let me see if I can piece this together, but when you were talking about your work doesn't speak for itself, we've talked about it a lot. And we will again, that notion of being seen because it is actually fucking terrifying to let people see all of you on the authentic version of you. When we've grown up in such a homogenized society where we've. Being told you must fit in to be loved and belong.
So I think at any stage of your career, even when you're growing and progressing and, and appearing incredibly successful, I think that probably loops back around. It just is like wearing a different outfit when it does.
And I think social media in particular, this idea that there's one way to do business and there's a particular way that you need to show up on social media. The thing that I've learned from coaching a lot of people and also through my own experience is that huge numbers of followers on whatever platform on Instagram, whatever, don't necessarily translate into high income. And then the other experience I had, which was really interesting is I just did a takeover of an Instagram account with.
Thousands of followers, like 17, 000 followers and I posted my little stories up there and the engagement was so, so low. Like I had less people viewing stories on that huge account than I do on my tiny little, 600 people. And there's something about depending on, I think it just depends who you are and what you like, but for some of us. Deep engagement with the people who are most drawn to us is like much better than, you know, going big, big numbers. And that's, to say like, yes, of course.
We know that reels are what the algorithm currently wants and that will change again at some undefined time. So it's kind of like fashion is faddish, and it's like, do you want to have your own personal style or do you follow the, trends and neither way is wrong or right. yeah, I do think there's a lot of like noise about this is the way you have to do business. And. It's actually just not true. And I look, my business partner and I talk about this a lot in how we want to run our business.
Am I scared of doing something, but I want to overcome the fear or do I just not want to work in that way?
Thank you very much. That was incredibly helpful. . Now, do you have a question for me? 100%.
out talking about the way we want to work. I am a 20 out of 20 extrovert, as you know. And I think sometimes I can make freelancer life sound like so amazing. So I've traded, huge social cohesion that I get from the workplace with freedom and autonomy. but I just, I'm getting really lonely working for myself and I find that I just have like so many great networks of people to ask for advice and people to text with but like, I actually want to be in a space, a buzzing space with lots of people.
So I guess I've got a question for you about manifesting and particularly being a non specific manifester. So, and I'm actually like, I'm coaching myself as we talk hilarious, because the thing I thought I was like, I was going to be like, so what I want to manifest is I want an intimate space with like, I don't know, maybe five to 10 people that go into the space a lot. And another freelancer that I'm friends with.
Described really well is actually what I'm looking for is companionship, so we don't have to do the same work, we don't have to work together, better if we don't, yeah, what's your advice for manifesting that? Like, and am I being too specific? Should I be more focused on like how I want to feel? I
No. Well, you've, you've just pointed out the process I would go through. So I would always let myself run with the fantasy, cause that's how we start. That's how we even know what's below it. So, okay. I think I want the 10 people. I think I want it buzzing. I think I wanted this. I think I wanted that. But what happens is if we try and move forth from that list, we put our blinkers up and we miss the good stuff.
, and it's not to say you won't like need to learn things along the way or go on that journey. But what you have just done for yourself is get to the bottom, the bottom tiramisu layer and say, actually it's companionship. So now you just get to actually manifest that feeling and you're going to know, you know, it's always linguistic. So companionship is going to feel a certain way for you. But what gets to happen is if you're really open to that.
You will start seeing that show up in your marriage, in your friendship, in your dynamic with me. And, it's often like three 60, it shocks you in the ways that it comes through. But I think what's really interesting is like, excuse me to always relay it back to dating, but I had this list and I thought I kind of went out looking for it, or I would, I met people and I was like, Ooh, I'm going to get that here, or I'm going to try and inflict it there.
And then I was speaking to you about this, about wanting to have my apps back in the game for when I was in Australia. I was feeling like very drawn to that idea. And so I updated the profile and I was feeling so good. Strangely, the profile took on a life of its own. And that's what being a generator is all about. Like you get so much buzz and you get so much excitement. And so I was like, I can't sit on this. Like there is movement and momentum here.
That's when you know, when you're on flow as generator, I was like, , I need to get this. Open up in London, even though I was heading off in five weeks. Anyway, I'm just saying all this because I met someone who. Weirdly, like was ticking all these manifestation lists.
Like what was at the bottom of what I was craving from a year ago, but I didn't happen until I'd completely stopped trying to, um, reverse engineer it, and it only happened as a result of me actually responding to like my body's momentum and excitement rather than my mind. And for the past year, I've been exclusively making those calls from the mind. So for you, it's like, okay, cool. I've done the mind work. I've done the reverse engineering. I've got it. Got the feeling now.
Can you like meditate on the feeling? Can you, when you do your somatic work, can you like bring in what companionship would feel like, like that's where you want the energy to be going and then it's having that trust and that dance and letting life kind of reinforce little ways of like, Oh my God, I actually just got companionship from the barista or, you know, like, I think it is building a muscle and getting stronger and stronger. So that.
Gratitude kind of builds gratitude and you're walking around just radiating it and therefore attracting it in.
So, there's one thing you said to me during the week, I can be like, Oh, I need this thing. So, I'm going to put in place like a 10 step plan. why do you think I'm so good at that? If that's not kind of what,
you're designed to do. There's a couple of things that pop up in my mind. So, my teacher gave this amazing line during our training that was a system in disarray will do everything it can to stay that way. It's kind of like a virus, you know,
that's how we talk about organizational culture. It does everything it can to reinforce
Completely. So, it's like when you sent me your diary about us finding a time to record and I just said to mom, like, What is this? Like, this is jam packed and Ellen's been talking about relaxation and rest, you know, so it's this notion that it's just how you've been operating and it's familiar. It's fucking uncomfortable, but often that is more familiar than comfort. You know, when we haven't actually been taking when we haven't created the space to try
Sorry, I can't move on. I'm sorry. I'm offended by your diary comment. It's free after 2 PM every day.
Okay. It's just a lot of color in there for someone who's creating space.
I still, like, want to make some money and do stuff I like.
of course, but the thing is, that's interesting about you specifically with your design is that you do better with routine day to day, and that's how you get flow and it, and it frees up decision fatigue and it brings out your genius, but paradoxically, big picture, you don't need that rigidity and that can be, the thing about chart is it, you're given everything you need to get where you're supposed to be going. So it's all magic. It's all amazing.
And when we stop feeling like there's a clash there and just treat it as, Oh, well, this is exactly how it's intended. You can go, okay, well, I'm going to, I'm going to like let my day to day. Be the, the place I have the structure but tiramisu, all the big picture dreams. So when the dream comes up and you think that's what you want, sure.
That's still Intel, but like you did, you go down and down and down until you realize it's companionship, and then you really just release and you free fall and you feel safe in knowing you've got your structure day to day. But you're not, you don't know what you're going to be looking like in five years time, in terms of work or, office or whatever it is. Our listener question today is what is your advice for how to get unstuck?
Whether it's in an unhappy relationship or a job, which is quite cool. Actually, we're just talking about as a generator, That momentum builds and how that can feel
And this listener also told us that the reason she was asking that question was because it's actually something that she is really good at. And so people ask her all the time, how did you do it? How did you get unstuck? You know, how did you leave that relationship? How did you start that new kind of career thing?
I love that. So,
was like,
much.
I don't know how to answer that. Do you guys know?
can I also just give it like a tiny deep dive on her chart? Because it's just so fucking cool when I like hear people's feedback like that. Cause essentially her personality profile is all about being the role model and authority. So People see her creating this like heaven on earth and they're like, how did you do that? But she also embodies this really natural, effortless, like learner, like, you know, they're the kind of like Beethoven children that just came out being able to play piano.
So she's got that working for her already, but then she's a manifesting generator. So she's that person that does things in short bursts, master things quickly, moves on, changes direction. So she is the energizer bunny that grows here, there, and everywhere that shows the rest of us what's possible and how we don't have to stay heavy and hard. And then finally, the last thing I wanted to say was that her main gift.
So the thing that makes up 70 percent of her design and what she's really here to share with us is. the last kind of talent in her chart. So you have a gift, the gifts range from one to 64. They're based on the eating and it tells us the story of humanity, like little bits of human embodiment that we, that we have access to. So 64, if you think about it, it's the end of the book, it's the last chapter.
It's that moment just before you, you go on or you die or, you know, you turn around and you reflect and you go, Hmm, what's the conclusion here? What have I learned? What am I taking with me? What am I leaving behind? It's very full moon energy.
So it's just very, very, very, very, very cool to know that she's embodying that kind of ability to close chapters really healthily by the sounds of it and therefore, like, become this role model that's showing us we can do that more effortlessly as well.
related to that is most of us are not very good at ending. Um, and most of us don't have very good relationship with endings and I, I'm sure lots of people talk about that concept, but I came across that from Kate Northrop and open loops in our brains can be really distracting and draining. So I think when you think about being unstuck, there is a thing of like, how many tabs do I have open and how can I close some loops?
And then the second thing about coming unstuck is actually expanded thinking, which is what we do a lot in coaching. So the thing we'll do in coaching is like, what other options do you have? Because most of us will come up with, To binary options. So, you know, in a relationship I stay or I go. And of course, there are actually probably infinite number of, of options. so the question I'll ask is often saying coaching is like, okay, tell me 10 options, like a really big number.
10 things that you could do because once we get past the kind of obvious ones, that's when we start getting really like really creative. And I think that really helps us get unstuck, in our thinking. What would you say?
I would normally really want to dive into energy types here as well, but I think I would recommend people go and look at the my human design app and look at their strategy and authority for how they move through the world and manifest. I think that's really going to be helpful, but this thing that keeps popping up is all about communication actually. And I'm kind of having this amazing experience mirrored back in romance and even, you know, you were talking about, I actually hate that word.
That sounds so like girly, in dating again, Oh, we,
couple's counsel was like, would you like your husband to romance you? And I was like, that sounds truly terrible.
we grew up in such a like non tactile house. We're like, no, like I want you to adore me, but not romance me.
I want you to send me text messages during the day, even if you're busy at work. Yeah.
My friend, my gorgeous friend is always like, why would you cut off your arms for me? And I'm like, yeah, I get that type of love. Um, yeah, I'm having this like kind of crazy experience. You're talking about being stuck and, the, the closed loops. And I think that there is actually so much that like, I, I noticed that myself and, and I do use this language a lot and I'm trying to rewrite it about what am I allowed? And am I too much?
And it's a big part of the, you know, the, like I was the naughty monster child, um, and too demanding in relationships, but What's been awesome. I'm an overthinker. I'm a chatter, but a lot of the time we do go to our friends and we're like, is this appropriate to say, or is this not?
And sometimes actually, you just need to trust that, you know, the answer, but this person I was mentioning, I've never, ever, ever experienced such open dialogue and things that you would normally, like, leave off the table because you thought it wasn't appropriate to say it yet. So, and it just actually creates so much momentum in such a nice, healthy way. And then I'm in Perth and I, caught up with my my ex boyfriend last night and it was incredible.
He's an incredibly special person and it, got to a great point in the night where I just said, Hey, I've just got some questions. Like, what do we want to do? , do we want to be friends? Do we want to see each other once a year? How involved do we want to be in each other's lives? Like things that, you know, you kind of spiral creating narratives around and. You forget, or I forget you can actually just have that dialogue. So I think there's a lot about being stuck that we're often in our mind.
And where can you just test the water about what does radical honesty look like in communication? Whether that is with your boss, whether that's with your partner because, you know, you're writing your monologue and it should be a two way conversation. It should be a script and the plot might, might thicken or it might change or whatever by actually bringing it up and out into the world.
So like your ex boyfriend was part of our family for 10 years and just the same way that you were having those conversations with him, I considered this person family and I don't want them to feel like I don't care about him anymore. But also. Not kind of feel like, uh, he's like stuck and tethered to us forever. So it's just funny going through change, but I don't, it's not really relevant. So I don't know why.
think it is relevant though, because those are the types of conversations that are just sit with those and then we let them fizzle or we're like, Oh, we'll let time show us. But I do think it can be a phone call or it can be a text and this is the thing though. You have to trust that someone knows themselves enough Can self regulate to give you an honest answer. And then it gets to be, can you believe what they're telling you?
And I've really, really, really tried really hard lately to say two things. Like, can I think of them in the highest intention? Is that right? And can I trust what they're telling me? And when I was this naughty kid, no one created space for me to be anything other than that for about a year. So of course I filled that space. And I think when you are holding people up to that intention or, trusting them people rise to it. You can feel it.
And It's just made for richer relationships and more momentum. So I'm not quite sure again, if this is like a little off being stuck, but I think in terms of the relationship part of the question, hopefully it's helpful.
I've started talking with friends, like. Okay. I'm going to trust you to hold your own boundaries. I'll often be like, Hey, why don't you think about this overnight and then let me know, cause you just make sure you have your own
the amazing thing. You can do this without knowing someone's design, even if you just are like, Observant and you know, your friends, but we hold space for that. And we, we train them to do it for themselves, but we also train people for what we need. So like, I actually can change my mind. So I'm going to say yes today, but I might need to get back to you. All those little things just, just leave or worse. But yes. Where can you just say the thing? Instead of thinking it, that's my summary.
All right. Perfect. Should we consult the moon card?
we've asked each other, we've heard from the listener. Now it's time to ask
We have a moon card we've never had before, which is new moon, a new start is coming. So this card indicates that whatever it is, it is blessed. You are starting all over again in some way. How fascinating that we were like, conclusions and now this is beginning. It could be a new or better course of action, or just an overall newfound feeling of positivity about achieving your goals. If you have been feeling stagnant, remember that life is in cycles and you are on your way to a new one.
How interesting, we've just been talking about getting stuck and then this is about being stagnant.
and can I jump in? Because what's so amazing is we, we often are so afraid you're laughing at me. I can't help myself. I can't help myself, but, um, we've got to fight for this mic sometimes. And I have something to say, but essentially like we sometimes so afraid of ending things because we're worried it will disappear. And I remember saying to you, like, well, these are all the reasons I Don't want to break up with my ex boyfriend because I'm afraid they will leave my life.
And you said this amazing thing, like maybe you will just have. All the good parts of your relationship left. And that is actually what has happened. So , within a conclusion, you get to create a new chapter and you get to go in a new direction. , and then I get to go on new chapters as you've all been hearing about, and you know, he's with a beautiful new person and, and life evolves and that's the momentum. That's actually what we all want. We don't want stagnant stuck energy.
Cause that's death energy. That's like, that's death,
God, I'm so wise is what I took from that. To support your growth, clear toxic people and situations from your life. Release past worries and see the void of the new moon as a space for positive possibilities to come.
Stunning. Okay, well, let's get you out of there. And also I don't need to go to bed. It's the middle of the day. I could go to the beach. I could get in the pool. I actually need to edit like the work I've been ignoring by moving across the country for a couple of weeks, but
Okay. Bye.
shut up,
Love you. Bye.
Love you. Bye.