Hello and welcome to our last my sister, the advice podcast where the cosmic meets the corporate I'm Ellen Hoop, an executive coach. I'm joined by my sister, Mads Williams, a human design coach. We are coming to you from the past for this very special episode. the right theme music? Who knows? know. That was like very spooky. That did sound like we were going to physically harm them. don't say it. Don't say the M word.
we've just had like a lovely long chat Ellen was giving me business advice and she's over it. She's really over it. I'm not over it. I would really love to talk about that stuff when I'm awake, like in the middle of the day, I think about calling you in the middle of the day all the time. late afternoon for me where I'm finally had enough alone time that I'm ready to talk to people and you guys are asleep. be on holidays now. When this comes into listeners we will be how exciting. so good.
I hope we don't have any internet. We'll be together on holiday. So we thought we would do like a little special one for you where we're going to just try to answer as many listener questions we've got banked up as we can. You know what? I'm really excited because I asked Ellen not to make me read them. So she's going to read them to me for the first time. And like, we are just going rogue for the mailbag special because We haven't got anyone's HD. we don't know your human design.
This is like, we're chatting in the pub, we're going to answer your questions. Like we've never met you cause you know what? We had so many coming, which was awesome. I don't even know who they're from. Yes. All right. Let's do it. This is the first question we've got. How do you find your tribe at work? And then it says the sociability side to stay sane. Ooh. Friends at work. Friends at work. So I have only ever worked in really small teams, which is an interesting one.
How do you find your friends at work, Ellen? Well, I think the most recently relatable version of this is when my elder started school and I was like, I'm really busy and I wish there was some way to just work out which parents were like worth spending time becoming friends with. It's we need an app to scan compatibility and friendships it's called human design? You could ask for their chart, oh, my poor kid would be like, oh yeah, that's little one with the witch mom. yeah.
How do you find your tribe at work? It's making me think of the last really big team I worked for, which is when I was in store at ESOP. And I've talked about it before, but that was like quietly, slowly. You know, rotting my brain. I was so miserable by the end, but the people I was really deeply close with, I was bringing what I bring to work now. So like future focus, what's your potential? Who are you? What are your interests? What do you love?
that established over time that we had the common interest, but I guess the way it started was I would drive to work and listen, be listening to a podcast and I'd get there and I'd be like, Oh, I've just heard this amazing thing. And then I guess it was like gauging whether or not there was a back and forth that, you know, the people that didn't care, you can read it on their face, whereas if you've gone into like a really amazing in depth conversation.
So I wonder if it's also lightly bringing your interest to work and seeing if there are any takers. On the topics, Yeah. And I think, being kind of broad in the potential for who you might be friends with at work is really good as well. Like there's people that it would make sense for you to be friends with because you work closely together or you're in the same team. just like, who are you attracted to spending time with and just, following that I think is.
the easiest way to work out how to find your tribal work. Yeah, it's like, we're not in control of who we're drawn to romantically or friendship wise. And it's the people that you start, like, wanting to message or like, I've got a new friend and I always joke with her. She actually listens to the pod, so hello, but I always like show and tells over, sorry. Like, I literally like take things to her. Like when, An animal has harmed another animal wants to show its owners.
Like it's that kind of involuntary response, which I'm sure is kind of annoying for her. so you're like the cat who brings dead birds. That's what I just that's me. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I want to see what I got for you. So who are you excited by? Who do you want to tell your stuff to? Who do you want to hear about their stuff? Like Who do you feel energized by hanging out with who drains you? Like all this stuff is energy management and is a really sure way of knowing who your people are.
Yeah. And sometimes I've definitely had workplaces where there's been really natural kind of groups of people. And I've definitely had workplaces where, you know, it's more like, oh, there's just one person I get on. Really well with, and I think both of those are fine. I mean, I'm definitely the kind of person who's like, let's go for a coffee or let's have lunch or, you know, I'm always the one who kind of kicks off the team's chat on a Monday morning.
So, if that's for you, then that can be good as well. And if it's not, you can have that little little main that says that All introverts have friendships because they waited for an extrovert to find them. Exactly. And that makes me think of the human design personality profiles. So you could go onto the website. If you don't already have it, go to cosmic gifts and download the guide to get your human design chart. Oh, she means our website. She means askmysisterpod. com. That's what she means.
That's what I mean, Ellen. That's so Captain obvious. That's what I mean. So once you have that, you'll see a section that says. Personality profile. And there will be a series of numbers like six, two, four, six, one, three, if you have anywhere in your personality, in that sequence, A four or five or six, you can get a lot of clues on how you like to relate to people, your preference.
So if you have a four, you're going to find yourself being much more selective because your opportunities come to you through your aligned network. So it's okay to be like a bit. Guilty until proven innocent, or really see like who you are genuinely getting a really good, vibe off and being drawn towards. If you have a five, like my sister, the crazy extrovert, you are going to relate to the stranger just as closely as you're going to relate to your sister.
Like you really can just pull up a chair, chat to anyone. So that's also like cast your net wide. If you have a six, you're really here to be a role model for us. So people are going to be important to you, but you might find yourself like up on a pedestal a little, like, you know, being the one that has the high standards that like, you're kind of imparting on people. So again, you can be select like discerning there. If you want to be a bit more removed, that is absolutely fine.
If you're like me and you have a one three, you're the only type that isn't actually. Directly like connected or motivated to the other, I guess is a quick shortcut way to say that. So it's all about your own process. So just go do what you want to do. Like, that's why I came into work and I was like, I'm obsessed with group, anyone else? And I found my people. So, that might help as well in this situation. I've never heard you describe the one through like that.
I feel like you make more sense to me now. but it's also like the same with clients. Because there are people who are going to lead, like, if you're thinking about people, you're kind of like leading with your clients and how can I connect and this and that. And I know it sounds awful, but I'm like, I'm just over here doing my thing, trampolining. If you want to slide in and book amazing, but like, it's all good. And maybe that's a terrible way to run a business, but it's also just how my.
My costume in this lifetime wants to be like expressed and worn. Okay. The next question. I don't know if you have anything to say about this. Let's see. What do you write on your resume when you've taken some time off from working? I would just put career break. I think that's the easiest thing to do. Lots of people ask about if you've taken time off on like parental leave and long service leave, but you're still employed.
So if you go to my LinkedIn profile, I don't have any breaks for the time I had off with the kids, because like I'm still an employee there. I don't put the two weeks of annual leave I had off. So for all those kind of longer parts of leave, like I just, if I'm an employee there, I will just keep that job title and employment going until I'm no longer an employee there. But if you have kind of resigned from somewhere else and then taken a break, I would just put career break.
The other way of doing a resume is to do a skills based resume rather than a chronological resume. I would just kind of Google how to do that. If that's something that you're interested in, I think career breaks are way more normal now and I don't think you need to explain them. Yes. I like that a lot. The only other thing I was thinking from my new age cosmic HD brain was that we are so bad at seeing out. Strengths and our superpowers and what we're actually doing during those career breaks.
So there might be something that you were helping friends with or involved in, at the school of your children, or I'm not advocating for making up a role, but if there. It's something that's like worth flagging. How do you feel about that? Is that too much of a stretch? Too much like, a hobby CB? I think if you're at the start of a career break, something you might consider doing is putting on something where like on LinkedIn that you're. Taking a period of like freelancing and self employment.
I think integrity is really important and you don't want to feel like you're, you've said something you've got to like cover up, but if you are kind of, you know, taking on a few jobs here and there, that's another. technique or tactic during periods of time where you might just want to be going a bit slower or taking some time to regenerate. if that's, if that's not really real, that's not what you want to do. Like if you actually are just genuinely taking a career break.
In an interview process, I would just once again, hold that lightly being like, wanted to travel. Just needed some time off to refresh, realized I'd been working for a decade without a break, just have a think about a really light way to describe that career break. And I would want to be just describing in a way that kind of didn't invite any questions.
even if it might be true that you have taken time off for your health I don't know, I just has spent enough time in recruitment teams and in corporate environments to be like appropriately cynical. And Not everybody in the workplace is like capable of holding those kinds of things without bias.
Like actually, if I'm a hiring manager and I know I would much rather you've taken time off after a really busy job and I'm hiring you not burn out, but I don't know that everyone can be kind of trusted to think like that. So I would want to be thinking about a way to say something that was true, but that didn't really invite an extra kind of. Questions or, I guess unhelpful judgments And I think it's what we talk about a lot in terms of holding truths in our energy.
So it's like something you can really get behind and back. So when you deliver that sentence, it's a very firm full stop because you know it to be true and you believe it. And that's a boundary you've set. So like doing some work on that before you go into the interview. So if you are going to put anything on your CV, can you stand behind it just so that you don't have to panic if something gets asked of you or you're fully in your center as much as you can be in that process.
lots of things can be true at once. So like you may have taken time off work and the main reason is, to care for a parent, but it may also have been true that you wanted a break to want something new or to travel. Like both those things can be true and you don't necessarily owe that kind of whole truth and nothing but the truth idea when it comes to potential employers. do you think it's stronger to if someone's gone from parental leave into a career break or genuinely parenting?
Is it still stronger to say career break over parental leave? If that's like up to, you know, 5 plus years. I like career break because it's an air of mystery. Like, I'm not giving enough away for you to put me in a box of whatever it is. Whatever that might be. The just a mum box or the. burnt Just burnt out. It also feels slightly, and I, I don't, I'm sure there are very like audacious people in interviews, but it feels a bit like you're not allowed to ask for someone's age.
It does feel a bit around the career break, like, Oh, I better not, uh, dig too much here. So I love it. yeah, and that's such a great point because I think in most countries, but I want to speak to, I don't know, I want to speak to Australian law, you know, like we do have all these anti discrimination laws that actually as a hiring manager stop me from not hiring you for particular reasons, like including that you have children or that you have a disability, et cetera, et cetera.
So. people often ask me you know, like I'm pregnant, should I tell them or I want to get pregnant? Should I tell them? And I usually say, well, no, because why don't you let them make the decision without? Taking that into account because it's really, really hard for us to manage our unconscious biases and also you as a job applicant.
Why don't you actually find out like whether you're successful the job or not without that kind of information in the way so you don't have to wonder if it was because I remember, I I think you got a new job with one of your pregnancies. And I remember someone at the time who was like, really, I guess, quite important in my life. Older, being like, Oh, I would have been so pissed off. and that's a female.
I'm just really grateful we're moving into a new wave of feminism, but I'm sure like you're saying there's unchecked bias or there's really like, just don't care bias. think a lot of people think, Oh, I don't want someone to be upset with me or mad at me. But also like you deserve to make income. And, that person who would have been really pissed off. They would have had to manage themselves because it's actually illegal for them to be.
And you know, that job is such a good example because I took that job. I was so sick. I was so, so sick. I had to delay starting by a week. And then I went in there and I worked there from being three months pregnant to obviously nine months pregnant. And I did not work at my maximum capacity because I was pretty tired and sick and big and they thought I was amazing. Like, I got a whole heap of stuff done. They made a permanent position for me. Like, I contributed a lot in that six months.
And it wasn't as, like, I just want to kind of make the point. I didn't contribute a lot by just like flogging myself and, persisting when I didn't feel great. I contributed a lot because I had a lot of experience. and I don't think they would have regretted having me there for six months.
the only caveat I would say to that is if you're in a job that you really like, and it's not worth leaving to go and work for someone who's going to be a little bitch to you I think it would be really appropriate to. Disclose so that you can find out how they will treat you. And that's what I did when I got this job. So I got, I actually waited until I got offered the job and then before I accepted it, I told them I was pregnant and they were so lovely about it.
And they were really worried because they're like, but you won't get paid parental leave. And I was like, I know you're hiring me to be your HR person. Like I know. And so just. Making sure, like checking that they weren't going to be like, Oh, Yeah, that's such a good tip. Holy because I didn't have to take it if that was the kind of vibes that I was getting, I feel really excited for this.
Cause I do not believe this will ever be my reality, but for the people who it is, I'm like, this is such good information. it is good. I'm actually creating a little mini course. So everyone will have it. Yes. Okay. Love it. Okay. Let's move along. Thank you for going there with me. Well, dating and have mutual friends. How do you decide who leaves a friendship group after a breakup? And you know what? you moved to London and it's not a big deal. I was like, should we go to a sponsor?
Yeah. Yeah, let's have a breather. Let's go to our sponsor. Okay. Let's hear a word from our sponsor and come, you have to come back afterwards to hear the answer. Okay. Have we regained clarity? Have you got thoughts? Well, I think this is so interesting because it's actually for the friends to decide. It's like friends aren't property. no. And do you know what?
Because my, my knee jerk reaction is like, you do not have to choose because my ex and I, well, one, we're friends, but we also have, We don't live in the same city. It's easy to be friends. So we, well, it depends I don't think it's like you have any disdain for each other. I just don't think you're actually friends, but that's okay. You, were very respectful and kind to each other. I think that's very admirable and I respect and appreciate that from both of you.
I think we want the best for each other and I think that's a win. And unusual. yes, yes, yes. I'm proud of us. So I, I think the distance makes it super easy, but we both have maintained very strong relationships with those mutual friends but. I wasn't there when it was like, Oh, such and such as having a barbecue. Who's going to go or like, are we, do we both get to go? And so I think that is what this question is really Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's very fair.
It's like if you are in the friendship group and it's Yeah. If you do something weekly or That's tricky. Oh gosh, again, it just depends on so many like factors. What do like. are? Who was friends first? No, like, where are you at with your ex? Because like, can you guys have the conversation? Like, Hey, I really want to go to this. Do you really want to go to this? Do we both just be civil and go, or actually I'm going to sit this one out, there's definitely no one size fits all.
Like if we were to assume this is not good breakup, Yeah. Let's let's let's, let's get in. Let's go drama. Then I think, Who's friends first, who's more heartbroken kind of get to play too. I know. Oh gosh. I think it's case by case with events and also it's protecting yourself. So I'm not sure if this question is being asked by the friends who are like, Ooh, this is awkward or by the person who's been broken up with or has broken up. But I think In the group, there'll be someone on every side.
Exactly. I think in the interim it's, it's, we've talked about it before, but like space and time. So giving everyone space and time. And so therefore can you go for like solo walks with the person or solo catch ups like diffuse until you really work out where are we at? And where can we start coming together like puzzle pieces again?
like, when I moved to London, There's certain friendship groups, which it's not a big deal, but I did think had I moved over with my ex, I would like have totally been invited to that dinner party and so I think you also as a single person don't want to get like, Neglected because you're fine. You can hang out with couples. You're like, love your couple friends, but still. So that's another thing to keep in mind.
It's like not worrying that one, they can't handle it or two, that they're not fun without that person. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. you can still love them for who they were when they were part of a duo. yeah. Yes, couples and single people can be friends. I think as well, having been kind of the friend of couples who have broken up. And even when it's like, okay, well the one of them was the original friend. But honestly, like, okay, everyone's been friends for a decade now.
I found that sometimes the original friends partner, like, it doesn't actually want to still be friends with you That's a big one. and that's okay too, but it's trying to suss that out. And I think making a few attempts at maintaining that friendship over a period of time to I just think for me, it's like really making sure I haven't kind of let that friend down, I guess. I want to focus on the mutual point.
And I also, I don't know why I think because of my circumstances, but like Perth is just like ringing in my ears. I don't know who this, what, who sent this question in, but it's giving me Perth vibes big time and it's giving me backyard hangs and it's making me think about. Grief. So bear with me, but when we lose someone important, often people panic because it's so weighty and it's so much heartache.
And we, as someone like, as a friend often think, well, I'm going to say the wrong thing, or I don't know if I can mention the person that's passed away, or, you know, we, we, we panic and then we say nothing and then it's really fucking awkward. So I actually think also being okay with an awkward phone call and just like, Before the event calling and being like, Hey, I'm throwing this. I love you both. Where are you at? What do you want to do? I'm good. Like I am going to invite you both.
I want you to have all the information. I love you. I love them. I love the new person. They're dating. Like, What are we going to do? and you can do that with both parties, but just giving people options so that they're not one feeling blindsided, but also you don't have to make that call on your own. Cause that's often where I think the, like, drama does set in and it gets a bit petty or it gets hurtful, like secondhand news.
If you see photos of an event, all the things like, can you be on the front foot as someone in the friendship group? And as a person that's broken up with the caveat of like, very, very bad behavior from the ex. Okay. Yeah. I think it's also, if in six months, 12 months time, you're still telling your friends that they cannot invite your ex, that they cannot spend time.
with your ex when you have previously been friends, like, just really think about that because there's something, there's actually something controlling and unfair about that. I was going to say, yeah, I don't think you can ever tell anyone anything that they can do. But you can shift your behavior. So if you are disappointed that they are friends with your ex, you can communicate that, but then it's on you to kind of realize then those people might not be the friends you want in your life.
But yeah, you absolutely, I don't think anyone has any right to say. You cannot do this, but you can express like it's your life. I completely understand you have a dynamic, but I was so hurt by that behavior. I think if that is the friendship you're going to pursue, I might have to protect myself with my heart and remove myself from our dynamic for a little while or forever. And not in an ultimatum way, just in a, what you need for your mental health and emotional health.
I think the only thing I'd just add in the mix there is like, yeah, from time to time there might actually be some, Like safety concerns during breakups. Like we know that violence and abuse in relationships is far more common than we think that it is. That it's prevalent at like all different areas of society. So I guess think if you've got a friend that's being like particularly. concerned or worried, you kind of might like to get underneath that as well.
So you're saying, if you feel like your friend Has been in an abusive relationship, then you want to be in protective mode. Yeah, I don't think it's fair to ask them to be in the same space. as someone who's been like scary for them. If it feels like your friend's reactions are heightened, there might be a reason for that. And you might like to think about that. And you might even like to ask them about that.
And actually future women have just done a really lovely series on how to talk to your friends when you suspect or a concern that they might be in an abusive relationship. So that's like a really good resource as well. Love it. Tip helpful. Okay. just covered all the The possibilities, That's so crazy. I know it's like, give it, don't, if you don't give us any details, listeners, we are going to scenario plan. This is like being inside my head.
It could go that way or it could go this way, but I'm supposed to be a generator listening to my gut, not my mind. Okay. Last question. So we can put me to bed. Do you believe in dream jobs? absolutely. But, I don't. there's always, like you always say to me, a little part of your job is always going to be a little bit shit. I feel like you didn't believe that for like a long time. I still don't know, I don't accept it. I know. it. It's a you're like, reality. it all to the ground.
And I'm like, maybe I just had a bad day. it keeps coming up for me at the moment where I had a reading where she was saying to me, like, the way your success is to live entirely like a generator. So for your heart and your joy, but you are going to have time and time again, people tell you it can't be done. And so that is just how I feel about the world. Mm hmm. Well, so you do not believe you are not a believer.
I just, having career coach so many people, I think the dream job, like, can, just like, can paralyze us a little bit. I think it's like relationships. It's, it can be the dream job for this moment in time. Mm. Uh, yeah, I think there's, But I don't think we're working to like one final destination, even it's like, so Esther Perel, you know, you can have multiple relationships and with some people that's with the same person, you know, Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
well, and I think there's so many factors in a job, like, there can be a job that's really good for you, but then, like, your boss is a psycho. Right. but then that's not a dream job. I would say cosmically, you're being asked to pivot. Yeah, I I just I'm really, as you know, a big fan in like the next job being better than the last one and that it's like a bit of a build I think we have cosmic dangling carrots. You know, that's what manifestation is. It's like taking like little nudges.
We're getting to move towards a future. We really want. and maybe it's more like dream industries, dream outlets for your expression, like dream skills that you get to tap into as opposed to. This one limited organization, but like, maybe it's like, Oh, I finally discovered what role is my dream role. And I get to apply that in different ways or over a long career. but like your job has so much ability to fuel your life in my experience.
And when times, when it's not, There are shakeups that are needed and whether that's leaving or just changing your attitude or changing, like, the way you do things, I think job life fit is really important as well. It's like, does your job fit into your life, et cetera. And there are different, I think, ages and stages where different work is going to serve you in different ways. I feel like we haven't left that one that optimistic.
Oh, I think I really believe that you can love what you do, that you can love your work and that your work and your life can fit together in a way that's really so I mean, seamless is a bit strong that that's like imperfect, but that's really supportive. Like I believe your work and life can really support each other rather than kind of compete with each other. And I also believe and have worked with many people about, you know, finding.
The type and way of working that's most aligned to the life that you want to live, Yes, and I was listening to that. I think it's Peter Crone. Oof, but talking about the difference between, Oh God, I hate when this happens. I like take the essence, but I can't remember anything specific. But that idea of like setting goals to fill a void versus a goal to. Focus on what it's going to bring to your life. So I'm going to exercise to lose 10 kilos rather.
that's so heavy and dense rather than I can't wait to be strong, to go rock climbing out in the elements that I love. So even I think we dream jobs. If you are utilized, if you're like holding that dream job concept as a goal, Like a burden or an accomplishment you haven't achieved and being like cruel to yourself, that's not going to work. Whereas it's like, daily. I get to step more and more into feeling really great at work. And that's actually where I'm reaching to.
And that's my like North star on this journey. I think that's a much nicer way to, to hold it in your reality. Yeah, totally. Cause I think I see a lot of like, but what even is it for me? I don't know. Or is it even possible to like work? Won't work always be this like thing that I have to do until I can stop doing it. So yeah, But I do think like, yeah, what is it? What is it? What is it? Breadcrumbs breadcrumbs next best step. What's what's trying to get your attention.
What are you interested in right now? Like bring it right back. Because as I talked about, like me talking to my colleagues at ESOP about group podcasts, I was devouring on the way to work in 2018, 2019 is now like how I spend my reality in that world. And it's so funny, you know, I did the values in action to the via strengths, which is a free tool you can Google and go and do, and my top strength is hope. And in fact, when I'm like, ah, like the systems of work suck.
that kind of underpins my optimism about how work can change and how I want everyone to know that those systems are like, it's not you, I mean, maybe it's you, but maybe there's parts of it that are you, but that those systems do make it really hard for us to be well at work for us to be fulfilled at work.
And I just think that knowledge information is really like helpful and empowering because most people get the most out of work by kind of getting into the driver's seat about what they want from work. amazing. Okay. Should we hear from the moon? I think we hear from the moon and cause it's a mixed bag kind of mailbag day. I think everyone should hold a question that they want an answer to. Great. Okay. Let's hear from the moon. A new start is coming new moon. I'll Very nice.
that is a yes coming your way. This is one of the most auspicious cards in the deck. It's totally positive and suggest something new and exciting is developing. The situation you're asking about is blessed and you are on target to achieve your goals. The message from the universe is that you're starting all over again. In some way. Be that on a new or better course, or just feeling more positive about achieving your desired outcome.
If you've been feeling stagnant, this card reminds you that life goes in cycles, and we're moving into a new cycle now. This is the time to wipe the slate clean. If the situation you asked about has become toxic, either that will clear up now or something totally new and fresh is on its way. Attune to the moon. I'll see it when I believe it. Additional meanings. A new start is on its way. You will soon start to feel more hopeful about getting what you want. Hello, dream job.
Your belief that your dreams can manifest is working well. Forget about the past. Well, the moon is delivered as hope. Yes, it has. Thank you, moon. I'm so excited to go to sleep I also love that we're going to be together when this comes out. So Yes, that's so nice. Without wifi probably, I'm not listening. Okay, well, I love you. Love you too.