I walked into the room, I saw him leaning against the wall and I was like, it was an immediate oh, thank God, he oh, come on, Lily, he was just hot. You were like, yeah, yeah, that's just me. Come on. He was just hot. Let's be honest. Thank God that's my date. Hi, there. Welcome to another episode of Hate Dating Apps. I am Daniel, and I am Jinah. so today we are going to be talking about a very hopeful subject. Anybody who's on dating apps can identify with this.
There's a point at which you come and say, you know what? I'm good with my cat. I'm good with my dog. I think I really would rather just watch Netflix tonight than go out on yet another date, talk for two hours with somebody I am not connecting with and be disappointed all over again. Right. so that's that's the premise, under which I fall into most of the time.
But the guests that we have today are going to talk about the subject of this episode, which is I was about to ditch the apps when and then they're going to tell us their stories of how they were able to make this very soul sucking experience work in their favor, sir. but before we toss it to them, do you have any thoughts about this is actually going to be a hopeful episode? That it is. And you met Jenny on Mars. Yeah. So this is actually all the way around.
There is light at the end of the tunnel, you know, however you go about it, it's just life, right? There's there's there's success. you know, if you try hard enough on anything. But to your point, like dating app fatigue is a real thing. Just before we just reverse a recording, there was this HuffPost, article about therapists are now like, people are talking about their experiences dating apps with therapists. Right. Talking about. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're compasses. It's a part time job.
It's like, you know, I'm like, I'm getting matched with people that that are not a good match for me. It's like it's a real thing. Like, you know, people really struggling with this. So it's it's great to hear some, some hopeful stories. Yes. Happy endings. Yeah. Positive stuff. So we are bringing in my wonderful longtime friend Susan, who's joining us from all the way from Sausalito where she just got power back. Oh my goodness.
And this freezing winter weather, and my other friend Layla, and she's joining from San Diego. So yeah, we got California covered over here. Ladies, would you please introduce yourselves? Maybe. Let's start with Layla. Hi. So I'm Layla. I'm sitting here in San Diego watching it pour down rain yet again. Oh, darn. Okay. I think I'm such a wimp since moving to Southern California, but I'm originally from Oregon. and LA, and then San Diego for the last five years.
very, very different dating culture, I have to say, both LA, San Diego are very different from each other, but super different than the laid back, more liberal, kind of hippie state of Oregon. So have all kinds of experiences there. I work from home. yet another reason why I have to be on the apps, because, I mean, I'm sitting at my kitchen table on my laptop. I work for, as chief of staff for tech startup remotely. and, yeah, I live here on the beach with my dog. Wife is pretty. Cute, right.
What apps are you on? hinge. And actually, I call that a match. It's. It's worked for me in the past. Oh, yeah. And Tinder. Yeah. Every great. Once in a while. Yeah. I've never done match, but we have two match success stories here, so you guys are kind of winning me over. And. And Susan, you are married now, but you and I know a time when we were bitching about. There's no good guys out there and. Oh my goodness, it's an endless search. And I was so, so thrilled that you met John.
And he and you matched on an app, right? We did, we did. Hello, I'm Susan, I am a long time friend of Jinah's. So this is a heartfelt story for my friend. I, I am, I'm retired. Actually, I had been in health care, administration for 38 years and just recently retired, living here in Sausalito. And like she said, I am happily heated. there is electricity in our house, so I'm happy about that. I have some experience. I have quite a bit of concerns of, being on, apps dating app.
Sorry. in three different major cities. One was San Diego. So, Lila, I feel you. You really feel the pain. Was there right now Chicago as well. And then also in San Francisco, three different, different times of my life. about about a ten year span when I left, Arizona for that beautiful San Diego. I left a marriage, with a, an alcoholic marriage.
And what, I'm going to climb better sites, greener pastures and and, prettier sunsets so that I it was going to be easy and and get online and I'm going to just find somebody that's going to be adventurous and fun and exciting and wow, I had a lot of people that meant nothing. None of the above. None of the above yet. and the sites that I was on, I had to write them down because I was on, quite a few and many. Yeah, many of them. I was on in three different cities. I started out with eHarmony.
I did match, hinge was brand new at that time. Hated it. I was on it for about two weeks. and Christian Mingle is one that I was on. And then when I moved to Chicago, I thought, well, I'm going to stay on those. We'll just see. And I added our time and plenty of fish. So those are all of the my, you know, that my sites that I thought might pluck me, or pluck the right fish out of the ocean. And, I actually met John on Christian Mingle. wow. Voice isn't.
I did not know you were such a prolific app downloader. I think the only ones you missed were like Grindr and OkCupid. Girl. You know, I was on OkCupid. Oh, okay. Yeah, you just left that off. just curious, why do you hate hinge? Because hinge is one of the most popular ones. Right? Like a lot. No, it wasn't hinge. I actually don't like hinge. Yeah, I don't remember why I hated it. I think there was something different.
most of these, they matched you with people, and you got to kind of look at that. I think. What's hinge now and maybe they've made a change to it, but do they just they they say that they're the app designed to be deleted. Delete. Yeah. So you the that's the one where like it has like prompts and you don't necessarily do like an About Me section. You just fill out the prompts. Yeah. See I like the about me thing I needed you know you need the bio. Right? Okay. Cupid okay.
Does that too. Okay. Cupid does a lot of, like, algorithm matching, like, you know, asks you about what kind of music you like, but when they try to theoretically match you with. I thought eHarmony did that. eHarmony does that. Yeah. And a you know, I don't know, I kind of liked eHarmony when I was on it, you know, for a split second back in 2008. but I haven't given that one a try. But I know that that one, like, you have to fill stuff out.
You can't just leave it blank, you know, and take the lazy way out. but I am very fascinated and heartened by your stories. I don't know who wants to go first here, but I know Lila's match is fairly new, so, Layla, why don't you start and let us know how? You also were like, okay, I guess I'm just going to spend the rest of my life by myself. I mean, you literally hit that point when she has a dog too, so she was halfway there already. Yeah, I'm good with my dog.
So actually, Susan and I have a few commonalities. I left Oregon, and a long term relationship with a heavy, heavy drinker. also. And it was I met him on that I had I've had to really long term successful matches on match years from years ago. I've been divorced for like 15 years. and I didn't really know about other apps. I mean, Bumble, but Tinder, like, when I first was getting online, it was sets the hookup app that I didn't really use it. I use, Match and Bumble and then all the other ones.
I totally forgot there were so many out there, but and I definitely check them out. But they were so much work and yeah, like it was enough to have a match profile and like find the right pictures and put. So so I yeah, I didn't really know anybody else that was on any other apps. So I, I did have success.
but yeah, I, when I left Oregon about five years ago, I first moved to LA, and kind of a weird circumstance and I didn't know anybody and immediately it was told it's really hard to find your friend group dating is a nightmare. And it was it was true. Like, Yeah. I moved there shortly after I turned 40. And all of a sudden I felt like this massive amount of pressure because, like. And I'm being very general when I talk about Oregon. I'm from Eugene.
That's pretty liberal college town. Not. But people are just really laid back. not a lot of that LA vibe. So when I moved there, you know, being in my early 40s, already intimidated by the scene all of a sudden finding myself like, I really felt like I had to suddenly keep up and started doing like, the hair extensions and the Botox and chemical peels and just, like, saving money, you know? Yeah, essentially down the drain. Just. Yeah, like the rest of us in LA. Yeah.
And I mean, I worked in this kind of isolating, siloed environment. I was working outside the house then, but I just I was like, how do I meet people? and I immediately just started having these one off, like not great dates and geography in LA, as you guys know, is such a factor. Yes. I only do you have to like scroll through the gazillions of guys and you know, do that sell through. But you also have to kind of pick a location that's somewhere near you or you're in your car on the freeway
all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I had a couple not great experiences. In fact, thinking back on it now, I, I can't remember having really any phenomenal experiences. Wow. How long were you in LA? Not that long. Because Covid happened. I was there probably like a little over six months. And then Covid happened. Oh I see okay. So in those six months you didn't make any connection whatsoever. I mean, I went on a lot of first dates.
I did date someone for a short amount of time that it was okay, but he lived, you know, 90 minutes away. And that was that was a pain. and it wasn't a strong enough connection to really make that worthwhile. and the Covid happened. I actually met somebody on the apps, and we had been chatting, and he lived out of town and was visiting or working in LA, and we were literally supposed to meet for dinner, and it was the shut down day, like he had to get on a plane and get out of there.
So we never actually met in person, but we have connected to the point where we like FaceTime for the first, I don't know, four months of Covid, we were we were like dating by phone. So it was kind of fun. But I really followed all the restrictions for a long time. I just stayed home and worked and didn't go out at all. and so that was, you know, it's like, how much can you talk to a total stranger about that you've never met but you, when you were even in Oregon, you didn't.
No, no, no. You were in a relationship in Oregon, you said. Right. Yeah. I had been, since my divorce. I had I've had two successful, like, long term relationships with people that I met on Mats in Oregon. Yeah. Then you moved to LA and then you didn't make any connection. Then you went to San Diego. And how long have you been trying to find love in San Diego?
I've been here almost three years, and I didn't start off immediately trying, because I have my dog and everybody that I know in San Diego I met has a dog walking my dog on a beach. It's great though, but mostly women. I have this phenomenal group of girlfriends know me to a great. And I still sometimes I'm like, how have I not ran into some, you know, hot dude with a dog on a beach? I'm out there every day. but I'm in a messy bun in my sweats because first thing in the morning.
So that might be a factor. but so I have to have both on and off and my big thing and I'm know you touch on this so much it's like fine, I'm bored enough like I'm, you know it's a week and I and so I guess I'll just take a peek and see you know what's on the apps. Is it going to be the same, the same old people and the same old kind of. Yes. yeah. It's not on and off. And because I have established a really great social life here, I haven't put in as much effort as maybe I should.
I I'm just enjoying my life. But I do want a partner, so I do that every few months, kind of all right, let's see what's out there. and go on these first dates. And my experience here is it's unique. I have met a lot of what we call Peter Pan men, of these, like, Southern California surfer boys that never want to grow up even though they're in. There you go. Yeah, yeah, even the successful ones are still, you know, looking for the 25 year old, the hottie to go out with.
I mean, they're skateboarding. It's like, yeah, 49 year old dude on skateboards. Yeah. That's only happened so so attractive. Oh so that and then I and this is probably a common experience for everybody that's ever done online dating especially kind of serial over over periods of, you know, years, people misrepresent themselves so much. So, you know, you their pictures aren't phenomenal online anyhow or whatever the case may be.
The first in-person impression has so often been, you don't look at all like your pictures. Yeah. You know, you're I'm going to be a little bit crass here, but like 50 pounds heavier, ten years old. They're six inches shorter. Whatever. Whatever you want to. yeah. Or they smell, I think. Well, you could in fairness. In fairness, though, you cannot you cannot depict how you smell on on your profile, for sure. But I have literally gone on dates with men where they look like they're picture.
They're as tall as they say they are. And I am hit by a wall of man smell that is clearly not compatible with my pheromones. And I am like, I must turn around and leave. I'm so sorry, you know? I mean, like, I don't really do that. I sit down on the date, but I'm like, can we sit outside? But yeah, I, I totally understand you said like, burning some incense. Yeah. All of a sudden I'm pulling out my perfume. no. I'm sorry.
So go ahead, Layla, if it's just, I mean, and it's not every single person that's like that, but often it's, you know, it has to be a set of criteria that's met. And then on top of that, the chemistry has to be there. And that's super rare. It's it's very and it's like it's there. It's not I mean, you can be tall, dark and handsome or, you know, anything you can fit every you can check every single box. But if there's no chemistry then there's really no where to go.
and often too, I've, I've had the experience where there's, there's no chemistry for me and I think it's pretty obvious, but it's clearly not. So then I get a lot of pressure for, you know, continuing the, the relationship or more dates. And that's a, that's an interesting area to navigate. how come when you're doing sympathy dates, you know. Yeah. How come not just any dates but people that are really straightforward, like I'm having a great time, I feel a great connection.
What about you or do you want to do this again? Or we should totally hang out again. Or worse, they get handsy and grow or, you know. Yeah. Yeah, like your throat or whatever. So, I mean, it's delicate, right? You don't want to be a jerk, right? But you don't want to make out with this random smelly guy, right? And smelly guy who who's 50 pounds and ten years. you know, like. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So how did you get to that? And how low did you go?
I want to know, like, I know you said you dabbled where you're just like, oh, okay, let me just take a peek. And then the other times you're like, no, no, no, no, no. Going to be with my dog and my girlfriends. You know what? What would you say was like your low point? And then how did that redemption moment happen for you? great questions I have had, like I've said and, you know, lots of the neutral or Blair or Mare dates, nothing. No fireworks.
But I've definitely had some unpleasant experiences. And I think the compilation of the last probably 3 or 4 dates that I've had really just it were just so disheartening. I was like, you know, I put on makeup for this. I got to be been home watching Netflix with my dogs now. yeah. Just a series of like us. It's just it's not worth the effort. and I if you want me to go into detail, I can, but really, I, I just it gets old.
Yeah. So you so the last couple of months have been that kind of bottom for you. Yeah. Just like I. But it's paradoxical because I do want to find a partner. and you have to put in the effort. I mean, I'm not going to meet someone sitting on my couch, obviously. Yeah. So what happened? So my one of my very best girlfriends, who has also been single for a long time, and has is, oh, she does the same thing I do. She gets, you know, anxious and gets on the apps, has bad experiences, gets off.
Yep. Hangs out with her dog and her girlfriends. We travel a lot. So we I mean, we have a good time, but she met somebody like a very cute story. Not on the apps. and they just fell for each other head over heels. And there's a part of me. I'm so happy for her. But there's a little part of me that was just jealous. Like, I'm trying to, but I'm not trying hard enough. And she just kind of seeing her go through this wonderful experience, it kind of reinvigorated my desire to also have that.
And I really recognize I can't I have to put myself out if I just got back on Match and Hinge and just started saying yes and connecting with people and started going on get Again a bunch, you know, a bunch of one off dates more, I was more intentional this time though. oftentimes I'll just like, say yes and go meet someone because wasting time is is wasting time. Yeah. So I sort of like talking on the phone for weeks at a time or anything like that.
but yeah, it was one of those kind of serendipitous moments. I had a little note on my calendar to cancel match, because I didn't want to renew and pay for, help. Quick question. How are you? You said you are more intentional. How are you more intentional? Like with communication, like, not letting it drag on. Right? You're being clear. What? You're what you want it. Yeah. And having more dialog and actually a couple phone conversations.
not just like a couple quick texts and then, hey, let's meet, and I think, I think that that's been helpful just because I don't necessarily in the past, I haven't necessarily taken the time to really get to know people even a little bit before meeting them. And so having these disappointments, so, yeah, I just, I, I spent a little bit more time corresponding and communicating and but still I, I've done this so much that of course, I'm pre-judging. yeah. I'm hard not to go into that.
Yeah, yeah, but I had this guy, and we were, he asked if I could, you know, go get a drink. and I said yes, you know, I picked a day that work, and then I didn't hear from him until that morning. And he's like, hey, is tonight still work? And, I said, I already made plans because I didn't hear from you.
And then for some reason, and I don't know why, I texted him back and I said, I can have an early happy hour drink if you want to come to my neighborhood, because I'm going to meet some friends afterwards. And he did, and we met and we had drinks. And it was immediately the second I walked in the room, I was like, oh, he looks so much better than his pictures. Oh yeah, like so much better. And I was he undersold on his on his profile I think.
So even now I'm like, oh, you look so much better in real life. But there was a few things that I was already hesitant about, including like he's, you know, lives a little bit, a little bit out of my bubble and have kids at home still. and mine are grown. So that's, you know, something else a little more than a little hesitant about. But we just really clicked to the point where I had to go because I did have plans, and we laughed and went out to the parking lot, and he gave me a hug.
And then we, like, didn't let go of each other. it was just, again, one of those moments that I haven't experienced in years, and we just kept hugging and kept saying how great it felt. And I canceled my plans. We went back to the bar and sat hours, like, scooted close to each other and, yeah, super. A wonderful conversation and immediate chemistry. and his he's not like these guys that I've been encountering for so long that I'm expecting them to be a certain way.
He's romantic and thoughtful and kind and not a Peter Pan. And one of the biggest hesitations that I had is that he has his four kids and three of them are still at home. and like I said, I have I have two, but they're fully they're fully grown into adulthood. I started a little early. so they're living their own lives, and I'm doing this like full empty nest life. Drop everything and jump on a plane and go to Europe with my friends.
Or, you know, we have we travel quite a bit. So it's interesting that, you know, he's in this very different phase of his life. And, and I know that they'll be hurdles. I've dated people with kids before. but we just have such a strong connection that it doesn't seem at this point, like it's not a deal breaker like it normally would be for me. We'll be right back after a quick word from our sponsors.
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You got to kind of not be selfish, right? And and you can be. You can be skateboarding. If you have. You can't be skateboarding. You can't be a Peter Pan. That's right. And you have to have a level of anticipation and thoughtfulness to be an attentive dad, but to forget. I'm curious about something. So, can you pinpoint what the genesis was? Because people talk about chemistry, and I think chemistry is just shorthand for, you know, like Genesis Aqua.
Yeah. You know, Sequoia was just like, I don't know, just you say anything in French. It sounds, you know, very, very. Yeah, it's. So, what you're saying is that you don't know, what is the what was the difference, like, when you like that immediate, immediate chemistry. What was that? What was a turn on? Because you obviously you had talked over the phone a little bit, so you knew him a little bit, but compared to other dates that you went on and you didn't feel that,
was it because he looked better than his pictures? Of what? Like, can you can you pinpoint something that you made? So, oh, wait, I immediately like we felt something. We actually didn't talk on the phone. I had been being more intentional with communication with a series of people that I was chatting with. but we, we, we text quite a bit. it actually, you can't really pinpoint it. I walked into the room. I saw him leaning against the wall, and I was like, it was an immediate oh, thank God he.
Oh, come on, he was just hot. You were like, yeah, yeah, that's just me. Come on. He was just hot. Let's be honest. Thank God that's my date. Yeah, yeah. Immediately. Like he's intellectually stimulating and he straight up just said exactly what he wanted. Probably within the first 30 minutes. Like what he's looking for, what he wants. He asked me the best questions. Like really thought provoking stuff. He would. He's super intentional. He knows what he wants. And what does he want?
I mean, he wants a long term future with somebody like nice. And how many weeks are in? Are you, embarrassed to say, don't bake this? Nobody's gonna hear this, okay? It's just it's just a facade. It's just. It's just a for us, it's it's, less than two weeks. Weeks? Yeah, less than two weeks. It's very fresh. It's very fresh. Love I love it. It's like. It's like a little puppy. It's like a friend. Yeah. It should be like this, though. In the beginning, Lila.
You know, it should be, like, just butterflies and then just, like, amazing. And then you hope to keep that going as long as possible. But we all know the beginning is the best. And then it kind of, you know, starts degrading a little bit from there. And then people like Suzanne are able to somehow maintain it. And if we could just kind of like switch over to Susan a bit. Susan, like, this is your future. Susan is your future. Susan is your future.
Yeah. No, I've been told that I'm a lot of people's features. And interesting because Susan has two kids as well, and Jon has three, right? Yeah. Oh, I see some parallels right here. They name everything. All right. I want to record. Sorry. Because you have so Lila, I, I feel like if we, if I still lived in San Diego, you and I would be great friends and. Yes. And on the park or on the beach together. I had a group of women that I walked with every Saturday morning.
And what was really fun about the dating that I was doing is that became my platform. And they'd say, what did you do this week? Or who did you see? What kind of dates did you go on? And they would laugh with me. They would go, oh my gosh, I can't believe that with me. You know, all of that. So I think girlfriends in this process are really important to have because they will tell you what what you need to hear. If you're if you're sound a little off base.
so I, I it while I was in San Diego, I thought that I'm going to just keep at this because I really do want to go out. I do really want to meet someone. but I started stepping away a little bit. Not as much as I, when I first started, was like, I got to find somebody and then I thought, you know what? I'm having a great life. I'm getting myself. I'm finding my center again. out of a 20 year long bad marriage. And I didn't want to jump into a new one like that.
I wanted to make sure I was intentional about people I was looking for. And so I was. Every date, I would get a little bit more. Now that box has to be checked. It just can't not. I mean, I have to make sure that that he does have the same kind of a spiritual background. He has the same kind of, desire for travel that I do. I mean, there's just a lot of things that I was getting a little bit more, more concrete about that box.
and then I got the I was promoted and, got an opportunity to move to Chicago, which, really rocked me again, because every new city is hard. So you moving into LA, Lila? I totally get it. It's like, how am I going to really get invested in this community if I don't have a, you know, maybe a meetup group? I'm going to do it through, I guess I'm going to try these dating apps. met a couple of people that were, you know, okay, nice. But they just that there wasn't any chemistry.
I would, either hear them say something that truly made me go, what am I doing? Wasting my time? That is so off of what I'm looking for, I don't want that. I got better at saying, if someone said, I feel like we're have chemistry, I'll say, you know what? I'm not feeling the same way. And I got more bold by just saying, I. I don't want to waste your time because I know that that I'm probably not the person you're looking for, because I know that you're probably not the one I'm looking for.
So got better and better at that. It still was hard, and it was kind of is depressing when out with a couple of guys, there was one story I'll tell you really quickly. Very funny. he he sent me, a hey, can we meet? This was in Chicago, and I said he seemed. He looked like you look nice and everything. I said, sure, and I asked him, like, five questions, and he never. And he had originally said, let's meet on Friday. I asked him these five questions. He never, never answered those.
So I we just didn't go out. I ended up going out with a friend to the same place that we were going to go to. He shows up and he says to me, he, he, I know it's him. He walks up to me and he says, Karen and I go, no. And then he goes, oh, I'm sorry, I'm meeting somebody by the name of Karen. I'm like, oh, this is his place. This is where he brings me. Oh, he's met with my friend. He's efficient. And I didn't go on a date with, so let's just watch it. So I watched him.
I saw Karen come in, they meet, they sit down and. And they. They have this whole conversation. They have a whole date with me sitting like, three, tables down. And then I went home and I just sent him a note saying, I'm hoping you had a great time with Karen. I have one that you asked, and he said, oh my gosh, I am so sorry. And he said, you ask me too many questions. I just didn't want to answer all of them. Right? And he says, actually, I didn't have any fun with Karen.
You would have been the one I would have liked to have gone on a date with. I'm like, well, you missed that one. Oh my gosh. But but Karen, you don't have any questions for him. Yeah, Karen questions. What were the five questions, by the way? You know I don't I don't know they were probably. Do you like travel or wait. Oh yeah. It was something like to yeah. To like let's, let's yeah. Let's, let's, let's learn a little bit more about you before. Before we go out. Yeah. Right.
So so then I get, I now I'm getting an opportunity to move to Chicago or to San Francisco, which I did. And, San Francisco is a really hard place to fall back. And, and I decided, you know, I'm going to get off most of the apps that I had not liked in the past. Anyways, and I thought, you know what? If I'm really going to find someone that is, an equal to me in my the kind of soul that I have, what I'm looking for in my future. I've got to narrow this down.
So I stayed on Christian Mingle, and I think I stayed on our time because that was the older it was an older generation, kind of app and, wasn't have I there same guys on all these apps? Yeah. Different. Wait, wait, it's the same guys that weren't or on Tinder are all so in Christian Mingle, I don't know, I, you know, maybe, maybe they probably are. But and one of the things that I, I always struggled with, I didn't want somebody at my age because I was way into my 50s.
I didn't want somebody that was, not married, had never been married before. Think there's got to be a problem with him, then? I didn't want to say that. Had an angry ex-wife. Right. So that was again.
And I never, ever, even considered a widow or a widower and, so when I was in San Francisco and I got on Christian Mingle, I, this was in March of 2016 is when I met John, and he had sent me a note and I looked at it, I a widower, And then I, it made me kind of sad because I'm like, oh, this person's lost someone. It makes me sad now. Oh, we all good people. Anyway, so, I'm gonna I'm going to read up. What does he have to say? And he said he's sitting right here.
I just want you to know, he came in about 15 minutes ago. So now he's sitting here, listening to your whole story with this. but so when I read up what he was saying to me, he said, hey, I see that you work in health care. I'm in health care as well. So I thought, He's being intentional about how we might connect. and he said, and you say that you're new to the area, and I've been here for a long time. I could be that that tour guide you're looking for.
And, And then he asked me if the s in my code name was for Stephanie, and I thought that was an interesting question, and so I, I sent him a note back. This was a Thursday night. I sent him a note back and said, the S is not for Stephanie, it's Susan. And, what do you do in health care?
And something there was just a little bit of an exchange and I said, I, I this has been one of my never to do, but I'm going to go ahead and give you my phone number because I felt like there was something about his three pictures, because he's a very nice looking man. and there was something about what he had said in his profile. And then when I had the exchange that we had already have. So he called me the next day. It was a little bit before one. I had a meeting to go.
He goes, hey, Susan, this is this is John. And he said his last name. And I'm like, you're not supposed to say your last name. And he's and I he said, do you have time? I said, I'm going to run. I'm going into a meeting in about five minutes because I have one as well. I just want I wanted to thank you for responding and to see if you'd be up for maybe getting together. And, and I was like, that was so nice. Thank you for responding. What a what a nice, considerate man.
That's a man kind of thing to do. I think it wasn't like, I'm desperate. Thank you for somebody finally responding. It was just a really kind way of saying that. So, I had plans that Friday night, and I actually had plans on Saturday night, and he said, well, what are you doing? I think he had plans. And it was that night, too. He had plans on Friday night. and then, I said, I have plans tomorrow night, and but let me just see what I can do.
So I called my friend and I said, hey, I have the opportunity of going out with a really nice looking guy tomorrow, tonight. And she said, well, I would take the opportunity. so it's a nice friend. Yeah. We did. and we met, here in Sausalito. We met down at Angelinos, and I got there early because I just wanted to make sure I was there on time and everything, and I was standing in there right by the door, and I was looking at the beautiful wet water and front.
I was like, it's still pretty night. Even if the date doesn't go well, the night's already beautiful. But he came around the corner and it was just a few minutes late and he was rushing in and he said, Susan. And I said, hi, John. And I went to kind of shake his hand. He goes, no, I'm a hugger. And he gave me this hug and he just he was soft and sweet and kind. And he was he was not tall. I mean, he wasn't short at all. He what he was he was the right size for me. I'm like, oh.
And so Lila, when you said it just felt good, I was like, yeah, I can just stand right here. We don't have. And then, he held the door and he was nice to the maitre d, and we got sat down and he was so kind to the, the waiter and I'm just like, this man knows how to be, he's just a kind spirit. And to me, you asked what, chemistry was that to me is that I was like, so connection.
It wasn't just that he was good looking and he was nice. He. There was something about his soul really present sitting there. And we shared a bottle of wine, and I he he I asked him what, you know, tell me about yourself. And within ten minutes, he was already. Already crying. He was talking about his his late wife and I. My heart gets soft for him because he lost a woman that he was with for 35 years. Oh, that's a long time to be with someone. And I want 35 years.
I wanted 35 years from my first marriage. That didn't work. But now that's what I was looking for. And I thought if he was capable of being in love with someone for 35 years, maybe he would be capable for loving me. And, he's kind of lost some conversation. We have, and it was just a beautiful conversation. And ten minutes in, I said in my head, this is the guy I've been waiting for within ten minutes. Within ten minutes. And how long have you guys been married? Now? We've been married almost.
Well, seven and a half years. So. So you got another 28 to go? Yep. When he got to meet my goal. Yeah. He, asked me. Well, I, I made sure he, he got in front of all of my friends. he has a huge community of friends around him. He introduced me to everybody. They all gave the thumbs up with me. My friends thumbs up. And within two months, he had asked me to marry him. And within six months of the time that we met, we were married. and Jinah. Jinah was at my wedding.
Yes, I was, yes, I was. And you guys met on Christian. Christian Mingle? Yeah. How are you? Are you about to suggest that I get on Christian? Me? No no no, no, not for you. I know, not for me. no, but I think, I mean, the beautiful thing about that story is that, you know, take take Christian Mingle, take the dating app out of the equation. But that's exactly what we're supposed to be. You know, that's exactly what it's supposed to be. That's not supposed to happen.
Random people who would have never met otherwise bring them together. But I specifically remember, I don't know whether you and I already had a chat scheduled or what, but we did. We did. Right. And then I remember her going, wait, before we talk about anything else, I met the man of my dreams. I remember that conversation and me going, oh wait, what happened? You know? And you were just like, oh my God, hold on, hold on, hold on.
Susan told me, I know, I just like the town meeting agenda stopped. We're going to talk about this instead. and the excitement that you had. And then I went to Susan's wedding. And this woman, when you are so in love with somebody and at the wedding, like every pore in your body is like indicating how much you love this person. That was Susan. And there was John as well. I mean John was, was very manly and gentlemanly and handsome and you know, like the groom that he should be.
Susan was this blushing bride, and she was just like, I'm Cinderella, I'm Cinderella, and here's my Prince Charming, and you give me so much hope, Susan. that that'll also happen for me, especially because you toiled and labored for ten years on the abs. So if anybody deserves it, it's you. And of course, it just makes me super stoked that she actually met him on an app. And she did to me.
I mean, obviously you've known her, you've been friends and you were at her wedding, but for somebody who just met you to hear you talk about, you know, John and his right there and, and and and the way you choke up. And when you talk about him, it's like, that's it. You're seven and a half years now, but with this bullshit, it's it's it's not it's always I mean, I've, I know people, I have friends who've been and I won't name names who've been married for ten, 15 years.
And, and and I'll be surprised if it goes another two. Yeah. But in your case, seven and a half years. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if you guys went in front of the 28. Seriously, just because of the way you talk about it, you know? And it really is that connection that people the chemistry that that you like. It starts with that chemistry. But I'm, I'm a I'm a real believer that the infatuation, the chemistry, it's it's the spark. But to keep the fire going you know that's dedication.
That's the work. Right. But obviously you can't start the fire without the spark. You need the chemistry. But it's like it's it's the proof of the pudding, the fact that you're you've been married now for seven and a half years and you have that connection. And I love the fact that you guys met in Christian Mingle.
because not that it's a solution, necessarily, but I do think that, you know, the things that my parents were telling me, you know, when I was growing up, like, and I thought it was just old school sites like compatibility because they wouldn't talk. I grew up watching, you know, rom com. And I thought it had to be like, you know, had to be beautiful. It had to be perfect.
And they were always talk about practical stuff, like, you have to be compatible and having compatible like religion and spirituality and values. That's huge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think you could be with somebody who didn't share those values. Right. So like they're so integral to you. Yeah. Yeah. And they're really integral to John. And so I feel like we're very well matched that way. and just just a little side note, three years, three years ago, John was diagnosed with prostate cancer.
And about six months after that time, I found out I had a he we found a mole, and I had, melanoma. And it just it made me look back at how our lives had connected on purpose and that we are we're going to be our each other's soulmates and help mates for the rest of our lives. And we needed each other more than we even actually knew it. that we have now, that we have that a little bit behind us. that's one reason why we both have just retired.
So we can spend more time together and and with our kids and our grandkids and I, you know, life is good. There's there is hope out there for many people. If they just kind of zero in, it's what is it you're really, really looking for. Hold true to those those very key things, those factors that they're important to you. And I am proof to say that there there's a guy out there for you. There's a there's a woman out there for you. If that's what you're looking for, you'll find him.
Oh my goodness. Well, so I do want to get to that. thank you. First of all, both of you, for your stories, which, makes this gal, you know, feel like there is a light at the end of this tunnel. but would you please, for the people that are listening and, you know, fighting the good fight out there, give us your take on your best advice for them. Each of you, I would seem not to be in a desperate hurry. take time for yourself.
One of the things I didn't say is John had reached out to me in August the year before, and I didn't even see it because I decided I'm just going to. I'm going to take care of myself. It's all about if I'm going to be a, a healthy, in a healthy dating relationship, I have to be healthy myself. I have to take care of the person that I am. So I just stepped away, but I didn't realize that he had sent me that note. And when I that night he said, you know, I, I sent you something and I, you did.
I didn't realize it. And and he has sent since that I was with the weight. Right. So he said, oh, I would say, really work on yourself. and know what you want out of life. And, and I, I think the, the dating apps are helpful because they do have all of the information about, you know, it is like some like buying at the right car. You don't want some of these features that you don't need.
So why waste your time on those features if somebody thinks these are the best things about me, and those are things that are not even about value to you, don't waste your time. yeah. Yeah. Yes. That's best. My best advice I guess what you the way that you described your, you're sort of working your way through really narrowing down like you need all these boxes checked. Not in. You're not compromising. that's great.
I think in my experience I, I don't know, I, I, I guess my advice is, is similar to yours because I, you know, I'm left a relationship and my kids were grown and suddenly I was an empty nester and, and and there was Covid. So I just kept waiting to feel desperate and lonely. And it didn't happen. And it's still not happening. But a few years have gone by now, and I just keep thinking, I'm going to get desperate and lonely. And my friends are out there, just like desperately settling for whoever
you know I want. It has been so bad and that kind of thing. And it wasn't as intentional as what you just described, but I really have taken the last few years to kind of figure it out. I mean, I my whole life I've been, you know, in a relationship with kids. I've always had, you know, someone in the house. I grew up with, my parents, I moved out, I got married, kids. Like, I'm really having the opportunity to find myself and not feeling that major desperation.
But I would emphasize, like I said before, really putting yourself out there is important because, I mean, you have to take some risks. Obviously, I think it's very cliche, but true. Like, I've kissed a lot of frogs. Yeah, yeah, that's part of the process. I'm sorry. Yes, for some of them. But yeah, I think I would, I would say absolutely agree with with focusing on yourself. The desperation thing typically does not result in a long term happy relationship. No. And people sense it.
Yeah. You're dating and I think something that Susan said that I, I said this as well. And I think it's really important because we're talking about dating apps and the digital age, the box checking, I think, I think this is an important distinction because, the boxes that Susan was checking. Right? I mean, there is you look like you are attracted to who you're attracted to, right? I mean, there's a physical type and we all are attracted to different physical, attributes.
and that's one of the boxes. But the more important boxes is really the compatibility and the intentionality of what you're looking for. Right. Because I think the problem with dating apps often is, you're not looking for for someone who makes you feel a certain way. It's more it's less about how it makes you feel and more about how it makes you look. Because it.
We live in such a a, superficial world because, you know, men or women like, you know, a lot of men to use stereotypes, looking for the trophy wife. Like, what woman compliments the lifestyle that I'm looking for? She has to be, you know, she has to look a certain way or for a women, like, she has to drive a certain type of car. We're talking about LA and Sanford like big cities, right? And those are the boxes that people are checking. Yeah. And it's such a superficial box.
And I am a superficial as the next guy. True. But I think in order to get to that intentional relationship, the boxes that you want to check, it really is the the compatibility, the chemistry, not so much like all the superficial boxes that everybody in dating apps. That's what you're looking for on your, you know, on the profiles. And that's why I think it's really interesting.
I mean, not not Christian Mingle for everybody, but, you know, farmers only.com, whatever it is, whatever is that you're looking for, the person who is in your universe, who is compatible, who's going to you know, and everybody's got different, you know, different things that they're looking for. But it really is about searching what you're looking for. Be intentional in what you're looking for. And that's another thing that Susan said.
I think is really important is you have, you're not ready to go and find that unless you know who you are. So you have to work on yourself first. Yes. But I also like, you know, Layla story because I think it wasn't her intention to meet a guy who had four kids. And had she really stuck to her boxes, she wouldn't have met this wonderful person. So I think I would piggyback on that and say, yes, know what your boxes are, be intentional about it, but also allow everybody some grace to show up.
Because that person who doesn't float your boat from the get go might just end up being the one who, starts a new box for you or who floats your boat like, so she has the boxes. But again the four kids and stuff too, I would argue too soon is to a certain extent is a superficial box. And yes, there's logistics, you know, I mean, you have to take into consideration geography and but you know how she she canceled her plans with her friends, right. Because she said it.
Right. Right. Because that that was the most important box to check. That's right. Yeah. The chemistry and knowing. Well, you guys have such wonderful stories. And I know Layla, you're just starting out, but we wish you the best. I mean, seeing as how similar you are to Susan, I kind of see that path happening for you. but thank you for joining us. And, this has been a really, really great episode. Thank you so much. Yeah, that was wonderful. Very, very encouraging.
Yeah, yeah, all of our listeners and viewers need some encouragement. So that was great. Love you Susan. Thank you very much, Layla. Thank you guys. and this has been another great episode of I Hate Dating Apps. You can't love with them and you can't love without them till next time. I hate dating them. Hey app daters and haters, tell us your dating app experience and we just might bring you on as a guest. For future episodes, head to I hate Dating apps.com and click on the big yellow.
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