¶ Black Hawk Down
Hello and thank you for joining us for another episode of I freaking love that movie . I'm Andrew , joined by my buddy , rob , as we dive into another movie we freaking love . This isn't a podcast for those quippy cynics . Just love for movies and the people who make them . We're back from outer space For a glorious 2025 .
Happy New Year , mr Rob , happy New Year Andrew . Well , I don't know a better way to start 2025 than to talk about movies . I love . I freaking love with you my good old pal .
That's a very , very good way to start .
It is . It is a New Year's treat , as they like to say . Yes , I think they like to say it's like the platter of cheese and little meats and crackers a little charcuterie and just a little bit of cot on the side , isn't that right ?
Yeah .
And that is , of course , the drug I'm talking about , as today we are talking about Black Hawk Tao .
The story of the 1993 Battle of Mogadishu . It starts with what seems like a straightforward mission US Army Rangers and Delta Force operators are sent into Somalia to capture two top lieutenants of a powerful warlord , disrupting international humanitarian aid . But nothing goes as planned .
Within minutes , chaos erupts as Somali militia forces swarm the city and two Black Hawk helicopters are shot out of the sky . What was supposed to be a quick operation spirals into a desperate all-night battle for survival .
Stranded deep in hostile territory , the soldiers are forced to rely on each other as they navigate relentless gunfire , overwhelming odds and the gut-wrenching reality of modern warfare based on , like quality or cinematic experience or , uh , just you know the content or the the directorial style of of the auteur or whatever .
But there's also movies that you just quote endlessly and there's so many different uh lines in this film that we just have inserted into , like every normal day conversations with each other for the past like 20 years . And that was one of them . It was like pretty funny . This is my safety , sir .
I believe another one is I recognize myself , which is just a joke .
Recognize myself .
Yeah , one of the privates is . Or is he private ? No , I don't remember what his rank was . One of the privates , is he private ? No , I don't remember what his rank was , but he's making fun of one of his superiors and the guy's standing right behind him .
Pretty funny , huh Good impression I recognize myself and he's like I recognize myself and then he says a lot of stuff that yeah that doesn't .
We can't repeat on this podcast .
He's like if you break , he's like this is what happens when you break the chain of command .
You'll be cleaning the latrine with your tongue until you can't tell the difference between . You can guess French fries .
So yes , it's a military movie .
Yeah .
So very . They get very creative with the english language . So , as you said , andrew , we're back . It's 2025 . We're on a little bit of hiatus and we want to thank uh john and walter for giving us a great halloween themed episode back in october , and then we took the holidays off and we are back . 2025 rebooted is back .
I freaking love that movie is back I was thinking .
I'm pretty sure I sang that same song when we came back the first time I think you did .
I think you did , uh , but we had a good long break . Um , we've been working on a lot of jammer related things , but we decided , you know , it's about time we got to get ourselves back into the swing of it , and so we're ready here for 2025 .
As you said , going back in time , so we're going all the way back to 2001 for when this film came out , but it's about events that happened in 1993 .
So I know we've talked a little bit about Mogadishu and some of that kind of military history , and I generally try to air to you when we're discussing military history , because you have that as one of your great passions , a lot of folks now here are Somalian they think of like pirates .
The mid-aughts , early 2010s is kind of that's been the kind of the overarching story in Somalia is about , you know , piracy and the issues with that . But this , further back than that , there was a great deal of strife and trauma there , so I don't know if you wanted to talk about that a little bit .
I can . I don't want to get too far into it . I mean there's a lot , there's a lot to it about . You know , this was these events were . I guess they were part of the somali civil war . But they kind of happened after the somali civil war after the marines came in and kind of helped establish peace . Um , well , it was more than just the marines , it was .
It was a uh , united nations , for you know some , you know some , I think , um , you know how they like to give them code , code names and things . Um , but they came in . It was a coalition group , of course . They came in , restored peace and then , uh , this force stayed and kind of tried to contain there's . I mean there's a lot to it .
Um , yeah , it's a it's a messy history once , um , like anything when there was , when there's warlords and militias that are running things , when you have something like a coalition or like you know , some come in , it's uh , it's a threat to their hegemony and they fight each other and they fight the peacekeepers , and that's the story over and over and over again
. And the Muhammad Farah Hadid , the person that was in charge of the Somali National Alliance , was , I think , one of the more powerful of the warlords , or if not the most powerful at that time , and that's why they were trying to , uh , you know , take , take him out , or you know , get him . But you also kind of caught me flat-footed here .
I didn't know you were talking about the battle and look , look how you did it , though , like you were , you were able to outline that pretty , pretty well .
And that's kind of where you you step into the film , you see they're trying to hand out like food and supplies and stuff , and the warlords are coming in going , no , we are gonna take everything , and then we will decide who gets stuff .
Um , and at that point it's like so these guys are definitely a hindrance to leftover peacekeeping forces that are still there .
Right , right . And the other thing to remember is that the movie takes place in a very small part of the capital , which is a much larger country that had a much larger problem , that was being torn apart by these factions and these warlords and these things like that .
So , like the movie takes place at bakara market , which is in mogadishu , which is in southern somalia , which is on the horn of africa , which is , you know , on the african continent . So like it , really it is as funny because the movie seems kind of big and it seems like you're like addressing the whole war , but you're not . It was really .
It was a two , two-day thing . That was a very narrow , isolated incident . But I mean , it was huge to the american people too , because you know , the images of american servicemen being stripped and their dead bodies carried down the streets was shocking for the american people .
And yeah , you know , and some of , uh , what the , the books and the things I've read since then about , you know know special forces or military operations . You know , post-mokandishu , like a lot of , you know , a lot of military brass got kind of gun shy about intervening and doing things . You know .
So they wouldn't have one of those Black Hawk Down situations again .
Right , uh , you know , so they wouldn't have one of those black hawk down situations again , right , because I mean , and there was a couple times when , early on , like in the war of , yes , afghanistan , where they could have made moves and things , but they didn't want that , the optics of you know , yeah , that kind of thing happening again .
Uh , at least you know , according to some of the books I've read and things like that . So obviously I'm not a military brass , so so I don't know . It is interesting how this one event , this one piece in this larger conflict , in this larger nation , in this larger thing , had these ripple effects through the US military .
Yeah , and it's interesting because , like you said , it's at a very small scale . And it's interesting because , like you said , it's at a very small scale . The actual events of the movie are generally just like a 48-hour time period of this much larger conflict , and it's almost a decade after . The fact is , when this movie comes out , it comes out in 2001, .
Right up against , you know , the , the war on terror .
I don't know about you and I don't remember if we talked about when we first watched it , but I know that I first watched it like 2003 , 2004 , in college , when we're when we were roommates , and it does strike me as interesting because you do , you do see all these servicemen , these different soldiers as a military age , like kid , essentially , back then in 2003
, 2004 . I'm watching , you know , I'm watching this , and we're in the midst of the war on terror . I'm watching this and we're in the midst of the war on terror , but we're also we have this you know , the war in Iraq just starts , essentially in the .
In these like couple of years span since the movie came out , and I know that there was talk of , you know , you , 17 , 18 year old men you're thinking about . Oh , am I ? Are they going to like restart the draft ? Like , are we , just because it's it had been such a long period of time since we had , like , these larger conflicts ?
You know as a , as a country , that those are the kind of questions that are coming up . And then this kind of movie felt very poignant at the time , cause I'm I'm watching this and I'm thinking about what it would be like to be , you know , shipped overseas and really involved in a conflict that doesn't feel like it pertains to you .
Well , yeah , and I think the fear for me was so , while I had seen this movie when it first came out , I remember when it was actually first released , it was like a limited release in New York and LA and stuff and I was a little disappointed because I thought , ah , I won't get to see it it .
But then obviously I had a wider release and I got to see it , um , but you know , I think that the fear of the draft really came from , you know , once the second war was declared , it was like , you know , there was this , this chance that we were going to draft
¶ War Film Reflections and Camaraderie
it up . I mean not to go too much into my history with that , but you know , I mean I was in pursuit of , uh , you know , working or taking a enlistment with the reserves at that time and uh , you know , I didn't want to be going to overseas , to iraq , you know , I mean it was .
There was one thing about me where there was , you know , the certain part of the patriotic side or the side that was like , okay , I'd be okay serving in Afghanistan and things like that .
But it was like there was that weird feeling of like , okay , well , now we're looking at a second war in a country where we're invading and you know , and actually you know there was a number of people that you and I went to college with that did serve , you know , and through the rotc program specifically and whatnot , you know , a couple of my very good
friends and I actually had a very good friend killed in iraq . I mean , I still really enjoy , uh , military history . You know , and even you know sci-fi military stories . You know history , military history either , modern military things like that . Um , you know , I still enjoy all that despite all this .
I mean , I think to a certain degree it's like they say in the movie you know , once that first bullet goes past your window , politics goes out the window .
So you know , you , if you leave politics out of it , there's a lot of interesting things and a lot of interesting things we learned , um , but I also know that that can be quite a charged thing for some people . You know , and that's it's hard sometimes to be like . You know you come and you come to like you bring like a movie like this .
You say , man , one of my favorite movies , a movie I freaking love , is a war movie , and sometimes you get , you get an odd look from some people that they . So you , you enjoy a movie that's about , you know , 18 dead americans and probably 200 dead somalians and it's like , well , it's not . You're not glorifying the war or the death .
There's something about like going through the trenches of something in general . Right , you know , like I talked about it , like when in in like production , like video production , or uh , you know at work when you know we've got really busy days or whatever , or you know we're getting through containers and things like that .
I mean we're not dealing with life and death there . But or like when my wife you know , if you're a reboot fan , you know she's a star Starbucks barista and she's got these crazy days . And I said there's something about going through the trenches together , right , that when you come out you come out the other side .
You've built this camaraderie and you've built this relationship that you don't otherwise normally have . And I think movies like this and experiencing things like that help build friendships , help build relationships , help build all that kind of thing . I think that is part of the thing to look for in war films and find that really you really enjoy in them .
Um , especially for , for you know , people who haven't experienced war or things like that personally you don't necessarily know , you don't have that personal reflection back on what is being shown , but you can still have that respect .
You don't necessarily know , you don't have that personal reflection back on what is being shown , but you can still have that respect .
You can still have shared experience , just even through entertainment yeah , and , and you know , coming back to the movie , if if we had just watched the film and it was just from the market scene to the end of the movie , it wouldn't have , it would have felt much different than than what we got , which is you have , you know , first 20-30 minutes of the film
is you get to know the soldiers to a certain extent , like they're covering a lot of soldiers and so like they're not fleshing characters out like full , fully featured people , but you get an idea for how the delta group interacts with rangers and you get to see how rangers are friends .
You get to see a person who's stuck behind a desk typing because he , because he can type , which I guess back in 1993 it was like a , a thing that that kept him behind a in a desk job , um , which still I gotta admit .
I gotta admit rep still blows my mind , I know , 93 , I was typing and and we were like but the older , you know , some of the older guys in that unit probably were like no , we don't type , I don't yeah well , it is funny because like it's , it's I don't know not to aside this real quick , but it is funny how like ubiquitous typing is .
Now yeah , but and it's not like . It's not like typewriters were new or computers were new back then . The qwerty keyboard wasn't new . They've been using typewriters for ages . But it is funny , though , is that it wasn't something that everyone had to do , or everyone did , so it was still kind of like a you know .
Obviously anyone could look at a keyboard and hunt back their way through , but to type at speed , was a skill when you're having to do data entry and all that kind of stuff Right Without errors in the military is kind of important . But it's funny because you have Blackburn , who's like the really green , like Orlando , Orlando , bloom Uh , who's like .
Who's making fun of Ewan McGregor's character because he's he's stuck behind a desk job because he types , but he also makes really good coffee because it's all in the grind . It's another , it's all in the grind size more . Anyway , ewan McGreggregor is , you know , talking about typing or whatever .
And in orlando bloom's characters like typing and he's like can you type ?
no , and he's like well , he's like look , kid you , look like you're like 12 . This place like that's I think that's one of orlando bloom's like early movies .
It's one of Orlando Bloom's early movies . Oh , it's one of his first films .
Had it been before , pirates right Also .
I believe it was before Pirates . It was right before Pirates of the Caribbean . Also , this would be in our fun facts . But it's also Tom Hardy's first feature film .
Which I didn't realize .
That was his first feature film either it was this and then it was Star Trek Nemesis .
Okay , Right after that , which he played , an amazing Picard clone .
Very , yes , spoiler alert for anyone who hasn't seen a 20-year-old film .
Now I guess , just when it comes down to like you're talking about , the reason why the film is so strong for me , like you said , is that this atmosphere , environment of camaraderie between all of these people , like you get the sense that they all know each other and have been working together for a long period of time and then they get dropped into this
horrible situation and I say dropped also as a euphemism , because orlando bloom does drop out of a helicopter and busts his back , which apparently he used as background , because apparently he had a back injury at one point as a young man and he used that in his audition . So very interesting .
He was like I know how to lay really still on a stretcher .
I know what it means to have my back hurt , so they're like we don't care . You're a good-looking young man and we need a bunch of good-looking young men Also . First just wanted to throw this out . It's also Eric Bana's first US film .
Ah okay , US film .
Yes , so Originally Ridley Scott wanted Russell Crowe to play Hoot . That would have been wild , it would have been very interesting . Well , think about 2003 . Russell Crowe , it was a little , you know that was a while ago . Gladiator Russell Crowe . Yeah , okay , but he was filming A Beautiful Mind so he couldn't do it .
But Crowe knew he was a huge fan of Chopper from . It was a 2000 film with Eric Bana in it and he was like you should hire Eric Bana for this role . Very interesting because I feel like of the many characters , hoot is like my go-to favorite . I like him because he's just like he's always really even keeled through the whole film .
It's like nothing really phases him . He's not like vengeful and mean and violent . He's like nothing really phases him . He's not vengeful and mean and violent . He's also not overly emotional .
He's like this just is what it is and you have to just keep going , even to the point where after everybody gets back at the end of the mission he's getting all of his ammo replenished because he's going to head back out . It's like you just have to keep going .
you can't question it well , it's history , it's interesting too because it's well he was .
He is an amalgamation of a number of different characters , so there was no one actually there named hoot and whatnot , but at least , at least as far as they let us know , I mean , maybe it was like a cia guy and they just , you know , they said no , of course there wasn't a guy there named hoot , but you know , I thought it was interesting , a CIA guy .
And they just , you know , they said no , of course there wasn't a guy there named who , but you know I thought it was interesting cause he , you know he talks about again this could just be the Hollywood writers , and I don't know if this really came out , and I don't , I don't remember it being discussed in the book specifically , but like he talks about in
the film , like people back home don understand why they do it , why why he does it , and you know he goes and he goes into the . You know this is why I think it's probably a little hollywood , because he goes into that . Well , it's about the guy next to you kind of thing . And yeah , that goes back to where I was talking about the camaraderie .
Right , in not so many , in not so many words .
It's what he's talking about he was uh wrapping the film up in a nice little boat . He's like talking with one of the guys what was ?
uh ? Oh , not , matt damon , it was um , oh , what's that guy's name ?
actor josh hartnett , yeah , yeah another interesting he's , he's pretty good , um , I I think I mean matt damon's a poor man , josh hartnett . I think the the issue with josh Hartnett in general we're being all I freaking love that movie . Right , not being quippy is I feel like Josh Hartnett
¶ Ridley Scott's Impact on Blackhawk Down
. It took him like a long time to shake the Pearl Harbor , which is interesting . So he filmed Pearl Harbor , or Pearl Harbor came out in 2001 . And he's like this heartthrob . That was like the thing that launched him .
And Jerry Bruckheimer suggested him for this film and he was very reluctant to do it because he didn't want to do another blockbuster so soon , because he had just gotten out of a Michael Bay film and it's like , okay , well , you're like the hot commodity right now , buddy , just just right .
But then you know you can he finds out like he would get to work with ridley scott , and I think that was the like , the thing that pushed him into doing it was like okay , it's ridley scott like I , if you get an opportunity to work with ridley scott as an actor , it's like right I don't know how we've gone this far without mentioning that this is a
ridley scott film .
Oh yeah , he , and it is iconic , ridley scott , and it's just so well shot . The visuals are amazing . I mean they shot . I mean they even shot all the night scenes at in the daytime and darken them .
But like the way there's this scene where the Blackhawks go out over the ocean and they cross the cliffs , and that whole sequence of them coming to the city is like top-notch pinnacle Ridley Scott . I mean it is shot so well , it's gorgeous and the music just is evocative . Oh , and the music at the end too , when they , when they do the Mogadishu Mile .
Oh my gosh , it's and that's another area where it's like , oh , this is a Ridley Scott film , because it's like fog and smoke , yeah and that's like his go-to .
It's like it's either , like you know , really rainy , rainy , or you have this dense fog , atmospheric lighting , which he does earlier on , because for some reason it's seared into my mind the general sweating Because it's just so hot where they are and it's like , oh , it's Ridley Scott and everything's wet and that's his thing . Hot where they are .
And it's like , oh , it's Ridley Scott and everything's wet and that's like his thing , including the general , and so the general is General Garrison , and he was played by Sam Shepard , and Sam played that Texas-born general so well , I mean , and he's from Illinois .
He's from Illinois and and plays a Texan Sam Shepard .
Yeah , and .
I was from Illinois playing a Texan and then I moved to Texas .
So it was kind of you know , then you became a Texan , playing a .
Illinois . I don't know , I don't know , I don't know what I am anymore .
Another great actor in this was tom sizemore . Oh yeah , tom sizemore . Uh , he played , he played . Uh , danny mcknight , uh , he led the column that was the the relief column .
He just did really well in it never and never have I seen a better actor to stand around while people are shooting at you and not looking like you give a crap , because that was him .
I like this scene . I like this scene where he's just like look at these guys , they're shooting at us , those jerks . Look at these guys , they're shooting at us , those jerks .
Which takes me near the end of the film where Ewan McGregor is getting into the APC or whatever and he's like we got to go . These things are bullet magnets . Come on , let's go . It's like screaming at people . And where's Tom Sizemore ? He's still standing out there , just shots being fired all around him and he doesn't care .
Yeah , or his driver getting like blinded by shrapnel .
And he grabs the wheel and is like keep driving .
There's so many iconic scenes . Also , a fun fact that I got from our buddy , derek , who likes to give us fan questions or remarks mostly it's remarks , because Derek likes to talk about film a lot too is that one of the character who gets deafened by the machine gun actually lost his hearing while filming the movie .
So a little bit of the process , film is pain for him .
I don't think it was a permanent thing .
Yeah , also . Yes , it's like the pipeline of if you play a soldier one time in a movie , you get casted to play soldiers because because it's when they're looking for inspiration for whatever they're filming . They're watching the movie . You know that you're in already , so they're like oh , we should just call that guy .
Yeah , that's true , he's good , he went through the training . I think it kind of became a a common thing in military films during this time was like , cause you'd see it , a lot of the special features , like we actually went for a week and did bootcamp and whatnot , um , and and it kind of lost a bit of its luster .
I feel like Saving Private Ryan was the first to do it , at least to talk about it and do it , and then a bunch of other movies , war movies , did it as well . But it was kind of cool too because they talked about it . In one of the behind-the-scenes set , this actor , th Scott , had a note from .
Obviously it was an anonymous note , you know or not , not a real note , but like soldiers had written them notes from the dead , um , saying tell our story , and things like that , which I think had . It meant a lot to them .
So yeah , I I peppered in some of derek's thing . The other thing he said was that he just said that you know , the action and direction are as tight as the magnetic grip it has on the viewer , which is Derek , has a way with words . Thanks Derek , thanks Derek . Derek gave me a lot of different stuff .
I guess at one point wrote some stuff about Ridley Scott in general , so he covered Blackhawk Down and several other films . So he pulled Hawk Down and several other films he pulled .
Gotcha Okay , is this Derek , your former roommate Derek ?
Yes .
I didn't know he listened to us .
He listens to us sometimes and then I'll just text him . I'll be like , hey , we're going to do this movie . What do you got for me ? What sweet , sweet information do you have ?
I got .
Ridley Scott for you . He's like I've written about Ridley Scott .
Let me go find my stuff now I gotta find our lists , our lists . One would think we'd do a better job about saving those he's pissed .
He'll see you later , lichtenstein . Lichtenstein wait , that's not this movie . A Knight's Tale . A Knight's Tale , it's Lichtenstein .
Lichtenstein . Wait , that's not this movie . A Knight's Tale A .
Knight's Tale , yeah , which also came out around this time .
You know I love A Knight's Tale .
If it was a DVD and we could buy it at Walmart In Kankakee , we probably watched it .
Yeah , but at that time it was cheaper to buy one of our TVs than it was to rent them .
Yeah .
Speaking of A Knight's Tale , Mr Robert , do you remember the character Jocelyn in it ?
I do remember that character .
Yes , her name is shannon sossaman , and she was also the pink haired girl in kiss , kiss , bang bang , a movie you and I both love that is true when I was , uh , on that big trail of actors and actresses , I found out that that her and her sister I don't think she's in the band anymore , but they have a band called War Paint , which is actually a fairly
good band that I really enjoyed listening to .
I did not know that . I will have to look them up .
Nice , there you go . But enough about A Knight's Tale , because it's called .
Alliance Hello , hello , we're going gonna have to add this into the list at some point right where on the list , robert does black hawk down land for you uh , I'm going to say that black hawk down is going to fall at number 21 for me . So it's going to be between Children of Men and Interstellar .
That is incredibly close to where mine's going to go . Oh , let me update your list here real quick before we forget again and then we don't know what your list is , before we forget again and then we don't know what your list is .
Mine is going to go at number 19 , which is Between Children of Men and Toy Story , so it's two very different films , but just below . Children of Men both times .
Right , yeah , but just below children of men . Both times , right , yeah , like so , yeah , so that puts mine right there , right at number 19 for me and 20 for you . Wow , all right .
Well , there you have it , and if you'd like to see more of our movie lists , you can once again visit us at jammerfun slash ifltm that's jamrfun slash ifltm to see our lists and find out more about our show . You can also share your list with us .
You can also send us a question or record a query and upload it to us , and we can go back to our little radio show interludes .
And you can also find us on our social channels , which are in the show notes , and , if you want to find me and , I think , robert , now too , we have left the hallowed halls of Twitter and are now gracing the halls , gracing the skies of blue sky , where I am , of course , at searsandrewbskysocial , and Robert is at robfikecom .
¶ Love Different Movies
So thanks for joining us on this episode . We look forward to having you back next week . In the meantime , please remember , we all freaking , love different movies , and that's a good thing . So , as Blockbuster used to say , be kind and rewind . As always , we encourage you to share with anyone who will listen what movies you freaking love .
Bye , see you in the next lichtenstein .