Undercover in Hells Angels bikie club: Lou Valoze Pt.2

and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world. Welcome back to part two of my chat with Lou Velosi, a former US federal agent with the ATF who spent over two decades working deep undercover. Lou so much to talk about. I'm going to throw one thing out that

I heard on the podcast. I think it was on the real one, but you talked about going into a bikie clubhouse. I worked gangs for a long time, so I know the environment you're talking about. That you went into a bikie clubhouse on an announced to make some connections. Do you want to just tell us through that story, because it blew me away, the fact that you went in there and how you manage yourself in that environment.

wasn't because of any skill or anything I had. I really knew nothing about outlaw bakers, you know. I didn't grow up in that environment, huge thing up in New York. And so there was an undercover agent who was already somewhat embedded with this gang and his partner, and in a lot of these cases, very important they have a

partner just for a lot of reasons. His partner was a local cop who was just on the task force, and when his department saw they were supposed to go with this gang down to a bike round at Daytona, which is a big bike rally and all that, and this was in Atlanta, Georgia. His department were like, listen, we didn't really sign up for all this. We're going to pull our guy out this. We're getting in a little bit over his head, a little bit yeah, a

little bit deep. So ATF, you know, the ATF agent in there needed a partner, so I got the all again. The only reason was I had a motorcycle license. And the only reason I had a motorcycle license was when I was a kid, like I don't know, maybe seventeen or eighteen years old, I had a Yamaha for like three months.

they were like, hey, let's go follow us. And you know, driving through the north where North Georgia, driving into Atlanta, and it was kind of misty, a little bit of rain coming down, and these guys drive real fast and I'm trying to follow them, you know, the head like the all I can say, our tail light's getting farther and farther away. And I go around a curve and

I dropped the bike end up in a ditch. And you know if you heard me tell the story before, but that I'm in the ditch and the bike's still the bike's still on everything, mirrors are all bent and everything. And they finally realize I'm not behind him anymore. And they come back and the big informant says to the undercoverage and goes, you want us to bring this fucking guy into the Outlaws clubhouse. He can't even ride a motorcycle.

And when I when I as bad as I was hurting from the fall, when I heard him say that, I was like, no, help me pick this bike up and bend everything back as best we could. It was still driveable, and so we went to this clubhouse. And when I walked in, it was it was a shock for me. You know. I again, I didn't have any experience. I didn't know anything about these guys. It was just an evil place. And I just got a really bad feeling in there. And you know, there's these guys and

they're just some nasty fellas. I mean, you guys, you got them over there. You know, they're some bad guys.

just stood there, man, and I watched. I watched how these guys carried themselves, how they handled themselves. And I could tell right away who the president was by the way he was being treated and all. And uh, after probably close to forty five minutes of not saying a word and just watching, I made the decision to approach the president. I went up to the president. You know, like I said before, I was real big back then, and I you know, so I figured, you know, at

least I got something to offer. I'm a big goon, at least young. And I said to the President, sir, you know, you know, this is my name, and this is my first time here. I'm with SO and so. You know, I don't I don't know your your rules, I don't know your you know your culture, and I certainly don't want to offend you or anybody else. I just want to learn from you guys because I like what I see and I want to become one of

you guys someday. And man, he just ate that up because he's looking at he's just looking at this goon, this big goon that that he can mold, you know, and make you lose, because that's what they do, They use people, and making the one of his own. And from that point he just he took a lake into me and took me under his wing. And I learned such a valuable lesson that day for my future long term operations. You know, shut up, read the room right,

and you know, talk very strategically to the right people. Yeah.

But I understand when your pride's being insulted sometimes you just got to suck it in. But I was really curious. I was really because and if you want to talk bikes with legitimate bikes are going to catch out within saying halla if you don't know your way around the Harley. But the other thing is I was really curious knowing the atmosphere, and you described it very well. What goes on in the clubhouse. It has a sense of menace about it. The moment you set foot in there, how

you handle it. And it was a fascinating way that okay, and I really got an insight into the way that you would operate. Like you could have gone in there and tried to talk as a tough guy and they would have smelt you out straight straight away and think how that this is not adding up? But the approach you had seemed to just work perfectly for you.

a motorcycle. And just to bring in the story full circle, I actually, you know, I had an undercover motorcycle for most of my career, and you know then I just I kind of got into it a little bit, and I probably owned maybe six or seven Harley's on personal bikes, and but I never it just wasn't me. I never was a good motorcycle rider. In about about five years ago,

we were going on a family vacation. I hadn't started my bike in probably three or four months, so I said, you know what, let me just let me just ride the bike around the neighborhood just to charge the battery. And so I just drove around my neighborhood and it had rained like the day before, and I was I couldn't have been going more in two or three miles per hour. I mean I was early moving, just taking

a turn. I went over some leaves. I didn't realize they were wet underneath, and the bike went out and I fell. I dumped the bike again. And I saw that bike as soon as we got back from vacation, and I've never been on one since.

can happen dealing with the pressure. There was another interesting thing I've heard you say in interviews that you would quite often go into boxing gyms or jiu jitsu and get lit up by some some boxer, or you get grappled to the ground and mauled by someone that's a little bit better. The way that you were talking about it, you're talking about, well, the pressure that you feel when you're getting lit up by someone in the boxing ring that's better than you and you still got two minutes

ago of a three minute round. That's the type of pressure you need to be able to deal with when you're you're undercovering the pressure spots. Is that something that you would just work for you? Finding pressure, dealing with pressure that way, that was.

You know, you're getting a ring and it is amazing, you know, when you when you are not a professional fighter and you get into a ring with a pro, you know, even I'm just talking about these local pros who just fight club like, you know, the skill difference is just amazing.

you know, but you know there's always one. Sometimes it goes overboard, but but it to me, it was it was a mental exercise as much as it was physical exercise, just to keep me on my toes and keep that uh you know, that that sense of being uncomfortable, you know, getting comfortable with being in an uncomfortable situation, whether it's you know, whether you're someone's taking your back on the mat in jiu jitsu, you know, or some guys just just sending body shots into you, you know, in a

in a boxing ring, you know, to be able to breathe and still keep your head and be comfortable in those kind of situations. So to me, that that was how I did a lot of guys, you know, would just go out and drink their asses off, but that that worked. Not that I didn't do that as well, but that worked better for me to keep me mentally sound during these things.

matter that you weren't hiding anything. You knew you were going to be carved up and carved up very publicly. That you get a custom to that pressure that you're comfortable being uncomfortable. And I could really relate to relate to that, And it's just it's a good way. And there's other ways you could find that. But let's let's talk about the storefront sting, because it's a strategy that you you became an expert on, like across the country.

And if I'm not wrong, it's yeah, the amount of guns and drugs you got off the street from these operations known there's a store storefront stink.

it bigger and bigger. And you know, I fell into that kind of the same way, you know, I fell into that bike case. I just got a phone call from an agent who in another office, who said, hey, man, would you uh you know, we have a we're starting up this storefront operation. It's going to be a tattoo shop. We're doing it in conjunction with the local Sheriff's department. We need an undercover. Would you do the undercover? I said absolutely, I'll be there tomorrow. And I didn't even

I didn't really even know what a storefront was. So I went up there and I saw the setup they had and it was phenomenal. Man. It was in a really bad neighborhood, very ghetto, and it was a it was a ghetto tattoo shop like it was the kind of place you wouldn't want to get a tattoo for the most part. And the informant was the tattoo artist, and he was trying to stay out of prison and he had already in prison. He had tattooed everybody, so

he knew the players. He knew everybody. And his deal with you know, with the police and with ATF was he was going to work off his charges by doing this case. So he was just going to do the tattoos and bring the bad guys in and it was my job in my undercover team to engage them. And it was a gang ridden place, gangs everywhere, and you know, we were to buy the guns, buy the drugs, stolen cars, whatever they were doing, and and you know, hopefully take

some of these gangs down. So we started and I was the manager of this place, and we had, you know, we had the tattoo area with the chair and then there was just like an area where we sold paraphernalia and all the flash on the wall and rolling papers and all that stuff. And I didn't really have high expected I didn't really know what to expect. And you know, as they started in, you know that people get tattoos, and we started just having conversations. They had a lot

of good ideas. The Sheriff's department. They said, we're going to put out a clear box of sharpiees markers and the walls were all white, right, they didn't. They just painted all the walls white. They said, we're gonna tell these guys they can go ahead and they can tag all the walls whatever they want, you know, just tell them no hateing, keep it sill. So we told that and they started tagging the walls and doing all their gang signs and stuff. And you know, the whole no

hating thing. That lasted about ten minutes, right, and there's their fin me veiled threats and you know, murder threats and all that, and you know, we actually cut all that out as evidence, all the drywall at the end of the case. But we told these guys when they would come in, listen, this is neutral territory. Everybody's welcome here. No beefing when you're in here. It's neutral. So it just started out real small. You know, they would come in and they you know, everyone was smoking weed. And

there the informant was smoking weed. He wasn't supposed to. All the everyone who was in there was smoking weed except for us. But you know, there was no ventilation, there was no I mean, so we were probably high the whole time, I'm sure. And we just started making conversation with these guys and inevitably, you know, these guys sell drugs and guns, and it came up and I let them know that. My side hustle was I had a moving truck, which we really did, and I would

move people, you know, from place to place. But I would use that truck when I got enough guns that I would sell in New York. And I don't know what you know about you know, I don't know how it works in Australia. But you know, every state has different gun laws here. So it's the whole supplied demand graph, right, So in states like New York where the normal person can't get a gun and carry it, okay, and in places down south here Georgia, Carolinas, anyone can buy a

gun and carry it. So that that gun down here that you can buy for three hundred bucks, is you can sell in New York for two thousand bucks on the streets. So gun trafficking is a real thing, very very common. So I told them, listen, once I get like two three hundred guns, I just I fill that truck with furniture and I'll move a family from Atlanta to New York and I just put all the guns, hide them into furniture. Even if I get pulled over, I say, man, I'm just moving furniture. You know, it's

not my stuff. And these guys love that. They were like right on. So that was my excuse to keep buying guns. So next thing I knew, man, we are asking for more money. We don't even have enough buy money we got. We're buying tens of thousands of X SEE pills, and we're buying machine guns, sought off shotguns, stolen guns, every you name it, we're buying it, grenades, everything they're bringing in, you know, every drug known to mankind.

And this thing is just spider webbing and without you know, once the word got out in the street, we didn't even have to do that much. They were just coming to us, and we're having to be strategic with spending money because we only want to spend on you know, get the most bang for the buck, we're actually turning we're turning people away. And so the success, you know, twelve months later, it was a twelve month operation. We had purchased four hundred and thirty crime guns.

We did other creative things like giveaways. We found that these guys never wanted to give out their real name or their real number. But if you offered them something free, the possibility of a free television or or you know, a three hundred dollars cash prize or something, they would fill out the little form and they would put a real phone number or real name or some way to

get a hold of them in case they won. And I would tell these guys, listen, just fold it at the corner and I'll make sure I pick you one because I'm the one who picks the winning So so we did that a lot, and we would actually give TVs away whatever it was to keep it real. But that's and even if they didn't put anything real down, we would even have the prints lifted from the little slip they filled out when they dropped it in. So we got creative.

that you could do. One of the things that you talk about in the book, and you use a number of examples, but just give a sense of it when you talk street theater, when you've got to get these blokes to the people that you're trying to bring in, get them to accept you are the genuine bad guys.

like NonStop cops. Okay, you wanted to show them that, you know, we had on our own hustle and ongoing operation. You know, we were buying this stuff and we were selling you know, whatever happened to be, the guns and

the drugs, stolen cars, whatever. So we would do what we called street theater operations where we would hire Usually we would hire one of the local gangs we were dealing with as security for the deal, and then we would call in other undercover agents from different cities who wouldn't be known there to come in and we would

do a deal, a fake deal between ourselves. So I would for instance, I in this one instance where we did a store for an operation that was a military surplus store with a shooting a three lane three lane shooting range attached to it. It's one of my favorite ones. So we had these gangsters coming in and they could blast their guns, convicted felons with our guns, shooting in our in our shooting. So this local, a local street

gang we were dealing with. I told these guys we had been buying a bunch of guns off these guys, and I said, listen, I have to deal with this crew out of Miami. I don't know them, and they're going to come in here and we're selling them a bunch of machine guns. I need I need security. Can you you know? Can you can? I hire you for to day? And they were like, that's what we do, right, And I never told I would never tell any of them to bring your gun. I would just hire that.

I'd say this, I'll give you a couple hundred bucks, whatever it was. And but I would always have to give them very specific instructions. Don't do anything unless I say to do something. Right, you don't have to do anything, just stand there, because I didn't want any of these guys getting over sell this and pulling guns. And you know what I mean, I can say that that, yeah, this is all fake. So so these guys would show up.

We would never set the deal too early because it was always hard to get them to show up on time. They would show up and we would have all this scripted and worked out before with the undercovers. So in this particular deal, we had this this incredible guy named Richie zaias a Cuban Cuban guy out of South Florida showed up with this big bear, this huge guy who look like a pirate on steroids, hair and all that. That was his bodyguard. And we were selling them ten

machine guns. And uh, you know, they show up and we would do that. I would like be on the phone and you know, the guys. I would set these guys up around around the business. I'd have two guys at the door, one guy post you know, next to me at the counter, you know, maybe one guy at the other side of the business. And I would tell them again, listen, don't do shit unless I say to

do shit please, all easy money. So so so the the fake bad guys would show up in like a you know, a panel van and get out and you know they always you know, be looking badass, you know, incredible, And I just specifically remember this one. So much because because Richie was wearing these these fake Nike shoes that had Tony Montana on them, you know, the from the movie Scarface, and uh, you know, he just heated crazy hair.

It's just a good look. And so they walk in to the business and uh, you know, we kind of interact in a non friendly way, and uh, I break out one of the machine guns, and he calls a big guy over and he says, hey man, I told him. I said, listen, we got a place you can shoot it right there. So he tells, you know, his partner there, hey man, you know, take that gun in there and

make sure it's a machine gun. So I send one of you know, one of the gang members to go in there too, and and you know, the ATF agent undercover goes in there and blast the machine gun off, and you know art, you know, the gang members like holy shit, right, and uh yes, oh yeah. So we come back and uh, you know, the big guy goes out and gets a gets a suitcase full of money, brings it in. We do the deal, They take the

machine guns and leave. And I always when they would give me the suit some money, I would always turn to one of my partners and say, hey, man, go take this to the spot, and he would leave with the money because I never wanted that crew to know I had a suitcase of money there because they would rob me. You know, there's no on thieves. Even though I hired them, you know, they'll still put a gun on my face and rob me.

We just dealt with them and they break in at night and steal all our shit, so you know, and you know, as an undercover, your fear is not it's not, oh, they're gonna they're going to find out that I'm a cop. That's not the figure because if they find out you're a fed any of these organizations, they're just going to put as much distance between themselves and you as they can. They don't want to draw any heat on themselves at

the organization. That's not the fear. The fear is that next deal is going to be a rip and they're going to kill you. They know you're showing up to buy, you know, a ki low and you're showing up with fifteen thousand dollars. So this time, even though they've dealt with you four times already, on the fifth time, they're gonna shoot you and take your money. That's the fear.

do take them down a lot of people. I would imagine you've built strong relationships with the long you're in there, and you seem to be a guy that understands human nature, and I dare say because of the person you are,

but the nature of the work. There was one particular one that you mentioned in the book where you had to go in and front the bloke, and a bloke that in fact invited you out I think for his fortieth birthday to celebrate because he trusted you, of all people to trust, and couldn't trust his trust his friends, and you were there when he got taken down and had to front him. Do you want to tell people about what happened there?

It all revolved around these video poker machines that the mafia was making all the bar owners and restaurant owners put in their businesses, and if you didn't want to play ball and put their machines in there, they'd blow your place up. So so this guy was one of those guys who and I'm sure you've run across these kind of guys in your career. No one could no one could get this guy. He was really smart. He was not a convicted felon, uh and he there was

no crime he wasn't into. He was just really smart about it. And the FBI had sent in three informants to get him, two of them were dirty cops, childhood friends, and he sniffed them all out. He was just a sharp guy. So I went in cold on this. It was just a really strange case. I went in as my covers. I was a kind of a down and out MMA fighter up and I was just moved to Chicago. And it took months and months and months to get in with this guy and get his trust when I

finally did, the case kind of picked up. I was buying stolen merchandise from him. One of his many crimes. He was fencing stolen electronics, flat screen TVs, surround sound systems. And I don't mean just I mean they were knocking off eighteen wheks, like in these deals where the driver would get out and walk away and they would get in and mafia type deals. So so I, you know, I started buying that from him, and then the case

went along very well. Like like you mentioned, he called me out one night, had me out to a strip joint and he sits down and he looks me in the eye and he tells me listen. He was, I can't trust the people I grew up with, you know, I can't trust the people in my neighborhood that I that I grew up with. He said, so, I really appreciate your friendship. And we did a toast and he goes,

it's my fortieth birthday. I didn't even know that. And and and again I'm thinking to myself, because you know, I met his wife, I met his kid, and he was a good father. He had like a ten year old kid, And I'm thinking, man, you know that's u. She hadn't trusted me like that kind of you know. And anyway, their idea, they really wanted to flip this guy to flip on the mafia, and they took him down. I knew from spending a year with this guy there was no way he was going to flip. I just

knew I'd gotten to know him. But you know, they didn't want to hear that, so they had me lure him to the Hilton Hotel at the O'Hare Airport in Chicago. He thought he was going to meet Hoyst Gracie, this famous MMA fighter, and he shows up. I walk him, We go up the elevator and we walk him into his room, and instead of Hoyst Gracie, they've lined up the whole room with boxes of evidence. Okay, like they're making a big show to get him to flip. There's the ATF and the FBI agents, and so you know,

I walk them in. They get him and sit him down, and you know, he refuses to believe that I'm a cop. He's not talking, he's not giving him anything. So they're like, hey, you need to go in there and show him your badge and get him to talk. And that's the last thing I wanted to do. You know, in my mind, I'm thinking, listen, I did my job and it sucked, but I did it. And now I don't mainly do

this right. But you know that's the job, right. So I walk in there and I show him my badge and I tell him, listen, this this is my assignment. It's my you know, this is my job what I do. And I want you to know that this wasn't personal. And he looked at me and he goes, it wasn't personal. Everything you've told me up to right now has been a lie. You've met my family, my wife, my kid, my friends, and you haven't told me anything that's true this entire time. You're going to tell me that that's

not personal. And you know, for once once in my life, I had no witty response. I had no retort. I just kind of looked at him, shrugged my shoulders, and walked away. I never saw him again too. He was sitting in the defendant's chair at the trial.

were doing. But I've also so and I've had informants like Ray that feel part of the term and they in fact become part of the team and get excited about being involved in the operation. I just had put a smile on my face. How he wanted to be involved in all the takedowns and was telling the technical blokes what they should be doing.

He had overstayed on his visa, and even though the untaxed cigarettes really isn't much of a charge, he was going to be deported, and somehow his lawyer talked me into keeping him here and making him an informant. He is the most unlikely informant. I mean, not a physically imposing guy. He's just a little Indian dude who didn't really speak English very well and had never held a gun, never done it be drugs. And this guy became, I would say, and I am comfortable saying this, the greatest

informant the United States government has ever had. Just a total natural man. He got me into. He got me into Mexican cartels, American street gangs, stolen car rings, just the Italian mafia. He was unbelievable because he was so unassuming, and he he loved doing it. Uh, you know, we didn't pay him. He only did it just to stay here was his reason. We never paid him. But he wanted he always wanted to go to the extra mile.

He wanted to be part of the takedown. To you, he wanted to tackle these guys himself, to the point where he could be very annoying to those, you know, to cops who didn't know him, and it was almost in a comical way, but he really he took pride in his job, his role, and in the results that we had. And and I'll tell you man it you know I did. I developed a relationship with this guy. Uh. He was always kind of getting in a little bit

of trouble, but it was always bullshit tax stuff. But you know, when it for the real work, for the lord's work, getting you know, crime guns off the street and getting you know, large amounts of dangerous drugs, fentannel off the street. Man, he was unstoppable and just a pleasure to work with. And my second book that I'll be coming out with soon is called Raycon The Betrayal of an Informant, because he was absolutely he was treated like ship by the United States.

I've also heard you say in different interviews that you've done that some of the people that you've worked against, as in the crooks and some of the informants, really they had your back, and that's a that's a thing you know that they've got your back. And I when I got into trouble at the end of my police career, I had people coming out that i'd locked up supporting me, and I had informants coming out that were rock solid I had. I had one. He's sadly, I'm not smiling

when I'm saying this because I miss him. You as part of my life. He passed away. But when I got in the in trouble and it hit the media in the police, he said, hey, brother, don't worry about it. If you get locked up, I'll get locked up and I'll look after you in the yard.

stick to their words. So it's an interesting aspect of policing. So I'd be very interested in your second book if you're covering off on some of that, because some of the situation as you find yourself in.

trust form it. He goes, Really, he said, you know, this guy is taking me into this house with a bunch of people who will definitely kill me if they can. He goes, So, my whole life depends on this guy. He's vouching for me. I'm not supposed to trust this guy. And you know he taught and you treat them with respecting dignity again, just like a crook unless they give it not to you know.

you know, to the detriment of my family and my friends. Uh. I was running around in this world, this crime world, uh, and living my life starting to believe you know that I that I was selling nunziato. Uh. And that led to it led to excessive drinking, and it led to infidelity,

uh with my wife. And unfortunately it was with a federal prosecutor who was working assigned to the cases these operations that I was doing, and when that came out, Uh, that was that was the end of both of our careers and a really hard fall for me because because of those circumstances, Uh, the government really turned on us and went after us. And you know, these these inappropriate relationships have been happening since the dawn of time between

male and female cops and prosecutors and all that. But because of the nature of this, you know, they just they went, they went after us, went overboard. However, it sent me just spinning down into this world where I couldn't get out of it. I didn't think there was a way out. I was like, Wow, these people are going after me. And these are the same people, you know that I've been working with my whole career. I know they can get anyone they set their sights on.

Why wouldn't they be able to get me? And I mean I went, Gary, When I tell you, I went, I probably lost fifty pounds in a matter of a few weeks, a total mental breakdown. Everything just that I had been holding inside it all came out and I ended up and I don't say this for a dramatic effect. But I ended up sitting in my bedroom paranoid, thinking every car driving by was you know, a government surveillance.

And I ended up just trying to find a reason not to end it because I didn't see any way out. And you know, luckily, you know my faith, and you know, just the just slight glimmer, you know, chance that my family would you know, forgive me, and that carried me through. You know, I was able to make it through, and once I was cleared, I made the decision to retire. I had been on for twenty six years at that point.

You know, So at that point, I I I had a buddy who was a homicide detective and he told me, he said, man, you got to write a book. He said, as a as a mental exercise, he was, you got to write a book. It was because I've never seen anyone go through the crazy shit you've gone through, and so it was it was a mental exercise. And I wrote the book and the book just did really well. And next thing, you know, my second career is in the entertainment industry.

to understand how it plays out. But you've gone from being in your mind the good guy doing everything, and that was your passion and then that was taken away from you. So I can understand how hard the path it was to dig your way out of it. And I think in your book you gave cutos to your wife that had a hard conversation with you when you're at your lowest point, and the fact that you managed to fix things up there. But yeah, public humiliation is

never good. And when an organization you've given your heart and soul to turns on you, I can understand the pain.

in the world. And that's what for the first time in my life, I had no control over what was going to happen to me and managrove me crazy.

absolutely it was cathartic. And my case in particular, the two false allegations against me, what they accused me of were they were killers. Because the worst thing you can do to a cop is to accuse him of being untruthful, right, because it cures credibility. So the two accusation against me, where one was perjury on the stand and the other was false information in an application for the s visa

for my informant. So when you when you accuse, all we have as police officers are a word on the stand. When you get accused of being a liar, it's it's a career end or it's it's a career killer, not only for your law enforcement career, but for any job you might want afterward. Right when someone googles you and they see an accusation of perjury, you're done. And all that made the paper and the internet and the news. But when I was found, when I was cleared, it's

funny that that didn't make the paper. No One on no one wrote an article about me getting cleared. So so I've had to work extra hard. A guy approached me who owns a magazine here and he wanted me to be in the magazine. And I was like, I was like, dude, I've had my little encounter with the press and it hasn't been good, so I'm going to have to politely decline. And he said listen. He goes, what do you want the most? He goes, what do you want in life right now at this point the most?

And I said, what I want the most is I don't want my son to ever google my name and see this bullshit that's been written about me. He said, well, then you have to bury that with good stuff. Bury it. So that's on the tenth page. So I said, okay, and I did it. He put me on the cover of his magazine and that kind of kickstarted this whole second career.

in the cars with them. When there's an undercover officer walking into a hotel room to buy, you know, a kilo of fentanyl from some cartel guy. We're right on the outside on the perimeter, watching and you know, we show it all and it all gets shown. And we did seven episodes in different states, all over the country,

different police department, and we show the case. You know, these are these are faster cases because we're only there for a week, but we show from beginning to end, from when they're talking to the informant and he's bringing the undercover officer in and the drug buys or the gun buys, whatever happens to be, and then afterward when they kick the door in and take down the bad guy, we show the whole thing. So it's no recreations. This is real. It's fast paced. I mean it's no again,

I don't like recreations. There's no it's all real. And and I'll tell you what, man, it is exciting as.

for different my different undercover teams and all. So we'll see if that happens. And you know, I'm right now, I'm waiting to hear from Discovery by season two for Operation Undercover.

going into law enforcement, I tell them this. I say, listen, if you want a career where you will really experience a true brotherhood. And when I say a brotherhood, I mean it doesn't matter. I'm not talking a male female, just a real brotherhood in a connection. I said, there's nothing other than possibly the military where you're going to experience that being part of a team and doing something that's fulfilling and you know, and actually making a difference

and helping to protect the community. And you're going to also depending on where you want to go. There's so many avenues once you get into law enforcement. You know, if you want to if your thing is you want to be a dog handler, you want to work explosives, drugs, guns, white collar crime, counterfeiting. I mean, it's unlimited. You can go It's not like a regular job where you're pigeonhole. You can go into anything and it can be it

can be fulfilling. My only word of caution or warning is that don't go into it if you think if you're doing it for accolades or appreciation, because you're not,

that doesn't happen. But and the other thing is if if it is your choice and you do it, and I wouldn't tell anyone not to do it, build that resume while you're doing it, and think of the future, think of you know, the life life after, because you know, there's a lot of good things you can go into if you're smart about it, opportunities you know after law enforcement, which I did.

the stories, and I love the book. And I get the shits when I read too many cop books because it makes me want to get back into doing what I do or what I did, I should say, so I haven't even let it go, but I want to thank you for the service to the community. And you know, I don't think we've mentioned this, but part of your career, and I know when it ends not in the way you expect that sometimes you think, well, what good have

I done? I think in the operations you were involved in lou there was over a thousand guns taken off the street, and not to mention all the drugs and everything else. You've made a difference, mate, It's a big.