Tortured, stabbed and left for dead in Columbian prison: Cassie Sainsbury Pt.2

just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world. Welcome back to part two of my chat with Cassie Sainsbury. You might know her as Cocaine Cassie. Cassie spent three years in what I would describe as a living hell after being caught trafficking cocaine out of Bogatar Port in Columbia. Welcome back for part two.

you didn't think you would survive. So I apologize up front dragging you back through it.

There was actually no real reason for them to keep doing it. And when I was taken to enter through the blue door, there was a small little blue door on the side, and I basically got pushed through it and I fell on the floor and I look up and I looked to my left and there was these buildings with clothes all hanging out the sides of them, like thousands of pieces of clothing, and I just remember it was a very peculiar thing to see, and I was like, well, why are these clothes out there? And

it just came across as very dirty, very dirty. Instantly, I had a guard who just did not like me at all, pushed me around, was very very harsh physically with me, considering it's not that I could really run anywhere or do anything or even space or backchat to her. She was actually very very mean. I think that's the

only word to put it. It was she was mean, and walking through I saw all these these guards blue blue military type uniform and then there was these other people walking around with these coffee color type uniforms, and I thought, oh, okay, who are those people? And it's really interesting, obviously, looking back on it, when I walk in there, I'm not really processing anything that's going on. You're kind of it's like watching something's happening to you,

but you're not really a part of it. You're not there feeling like you're living that moment at all, because it is the moment you step through that blue door, your life stops. That's it. It's it pauses. And so when I get taken in, she obviously be processed, obviously again getting asked questions if I had any tattoos, if I was married, had kids, This guard also that I had.

She spoke very little English. She did try to speak to me, and she was trying to be a little bit warming, kind of be like it's okay, it's fine, it's okay. You know, everything will be okay. And in my head, I'm like, I'm in prison, how can it be okay? You live here? Like why is this okay? Like, how can you say that to me right now? And

but she was trying to do them. I guess a nice thing could have treated me like absolute crap there, and she didn't, And so I was processed and then I was put into this little room and she's like, stinky, you know, you stink? And in my head I was like, well, what do you think? Do you really think I was gonna strip down naked in front of a bunch of men and showers like because.

point it actually physically hurt. So I'm pointing to this little little what is it called over there, It's called a hula, So it's like this little cagy room and she goes shower, and there was in the on the left hand side, there was a little shower in the open, and then a toilet in the open, And in my head I was kind of like, well, this is my life now, going from being such an introvert. I don't like my body. I don't like showing off my body.

You know, one of those people that would wear over size baggy stuff and then basically having to be naked in front of everyone. So the shower, I was over there freezing cold ice water. Naturally, coming from Australia, we have a luxury of very nice water. So this was the first shower that I had to have with freezing cold water, and so obviously strip off and I almost showered it as if I was a little cat.

Now I was I was quite big, so I would have been like a size fourteen, size sixteen, so I wouldn't even about it what like, So I had to put my dirty clothes back on, put my jenny clothes back on, and so the guys come back in, and she looked really upset with me, and she's like clean, clean, and I was like, they don't fit me, like I'm not walking around and stuff that doesn't fit me. So and she just avoided me after that because I stank,

and I really did stink. And then bit by bit more people were starting to be processed, and probably within about the hour or two, this room was full, and

these women just kept looking at me. A couple tried to talk to me, but I couldn't really say anything else no no, no Spanish, no Spanish, trying to be like smiling and not looking mean at anyone, because that also was I have quite a expressional face, so if I don't like someone, it's noticeable straight away, so that I was trying to be overcought, just of not making the wrong face at anyone, not making eye contact because we don't make eye contact in prison, all those sorts

of things, and then still trying to be polite.

like a normal human being. And I think, yeah, I can look back at everything now and actually laugh at parts that probably were not that great at the time. But yeah, as I said, it's really twisted humor because if I'm waiting to be actually introduced into the prison and then there's just really random things that happen, and you go.

I felt bad for these women. Lots of them are crying, I presumed most of them. Obviously they're families over there, they're very tight knit families. They all have kids young, and I just looked at these women and I'm thinking, you poor people, Like I don't know what you did, and I'm not anyone to judge because I'm here too, but I just felt sad for these people because nobody

wants to be there. Nobody wants to be there. There was a couple of scary looking people, obviously, some people that you just got this instant feeling that you you have to be nice to them, but stay away from them, type like if I'm not nice to you, it's going to bite me in the bum a little bit later. So, and I, in my head, prison was kind of like we're all in the same building, and we just all have our own little selse, kind of like what you see in the movies. Ah, obviously, because we don't.

a prison, that was just a holding cell. So when I'm actually before going into prison, I am strip searched again by mail guards, and particularly I got one who obviously again definitely went way past acceptable behavior, man handling, fondling, touching, feeling being very almost dominating in the sense of, you know, excuse a French, but you know you're a piece of shit kind of that's and I think in that moment, I've kind of gone how many times do I have

to keep going through this? And I think the frustraate and the frustrations kind of stuck in that moment as well, because I thought, well, how many times do I have to be searched? If each time I get searched, I've got nothing, why do you think it's going to change. Like I don't have any connections to get anything in here, I don't speak to anyone. And it was almost every time I got searched, it just escalated a little bit.

More and more got dressed, picked up, like my two two three pieces of items that I was given by the guard because she didn't take them away from me, maybe with the potential hope that I would squeeze myself into them. One day, I was finally walked through into the prism and it's still wasn't what I sek efected. So in my head, obviously I expected to see the prison block. That's what I expected. And I've walked through this door and the first thing I see is there's

a patch of grass on my left hand side. Doors all around me and then the corridor, and I've be like, oh, okay. In the meantime, I can smell bread, like fresh bread. I was like, this is really weird. So we walked through and then I see these same people with the the coffee colored uniforms walking around as well, and I'm still still trying to figure out if they're guards, if they're volunteer workers, if they're inmates, and people still talking at me, and it was just way over my head.

I'm just kind of looking at them and like processing, and.

wound up in prison. This is what it is. So walking through the corridor, it's when I come into the prison, essentially the actual where the yards start. So the yards they are broken up into what they call nine patios. So when you first just walked through the corridor, you've got Patio five, Patio four, Patio three, Patio two. Then in the middle there is there's a building. On your left, I'm just visualizing it. Just past that, there's like this

stage and I remember looking at it going okay. Then there was this church, and I'm really abused. At this point, I'm like, well, this is not what I expected. And then passing that on my right hand side there is a park with a playground with kids on it, like little kids, And I just first thought was why the little kids in prison, Like what did they do something? Because this is not normal. This is not normal at all.

And I knew later on i'd probably understand it, but that at that point it was mind blowing that there's a stage, there's a church, there's there's a playground, and I was mind blowing. Definitely was not what I imagined. Then you walk a little further down this corridor, because it seems like a corridor that just keeps on giving. There's Patio nine, Patio eight on the other side, and then right at the very end there's Patio one. Patio one is where all the newcomers go. It is the

most there's no construction to this patio at all. Is probably the oldest part of the prison, so they use old tin sheds as the actual cells, and you're just all locked up in there together. No mattresses, no, no nothing. You just left to basically sleep on the floor. So I get in there and I see this phones on the wall. Oh they've got phones here? How do the

phones work? And again, as I said, I can laugh about it now, but at that time, it was chaotic in my head because I wanted to understand everything that was being said, but I just wasn't comprehending anything. And then we're locked up in this tin chad, which was when I first come across Lovely lady with some nasty cuts in her face, lots of scars, she had a metal bar through her leg. And I walk in and it was almost like this instant. She looked at me.

I looked at her, and I looked straight at the ground because I knew I just sat part of me knew. I knew she was going to be a nightmare for me. And we were kept in there and they did a roll call, and probably about thirty minutes later, we were released. And I've walked out into the little the little yard that they have within the patio, and a lady, an older lady, comes up to me and goes, oh, you're Gringer. Let's see. Yes, yes, a phone family, familiar family like

uh no, no, no, have I got no money? And I remember speaking to her so quickly that we must have been like a mirror to each other when we were speaking, because she looked at me so confused, and so then as much as I tried to speak slower, I wasn't actually speaking slower. I think I was getting more frustrated that she didn't understand me. So the lovely lady, she actually lent me a phone card and she helped me call someone from my family, and that's so I decided

to call my sister. Now it would have been maybe twelve one o'clock in the morning here in Australia and call and she's like hello, Hello, And then something was said in Spanish on the phone and I and it blocked out what she was saying, and so I was like, I'm in prison, I need a lawyer. I'm gonna die. These people are scary, and then it it was gone.

and entered in prison. Actually it was the first time I'd spoken I'd managed to speak to my family since being charged.

how can women do this to other women? I think you expect it sounds really bad, you expect it from a man, but I didn't expect it from a woman. And so to go through that on my first night in there, it was I went into a very dark place and I couldn't tell anyone because I couldn't be a snitch. So I know people were aware of what happened to me that night, but nobody acknowledged it. And the next morning, obviously because they I got beat the

living crap out of me. So I was covered in bruises, I couldn't walk properly, and people were like, oh, you're good. What was I going to say? Like, I would have made an instant enemy, more of an enemy that I already had.

couldn't obviously snitch on anyone. Everyone knew that I'd been sexually sold to that night, I was then taken to go and speak to the prison director who later decided to move me from Patio one to Patio five, where technically all the foreigners were now foreigners their means like Mexicans or Spanish, Peru, you know, Latin, Australia. No, I

ain't know. I get in there and they're like, oh, there's another Australian here, and I was like, what where and they're like, oh, no, she was released, and I was like, are we sure she was Australian? Still don't know till this day. But and then so there was a lady, she was an English teacher in the prison and she was a bit of a translator for me, which was my first grasp at actually being able to communicate, and it was really refreshing. But I still didn't know

who I could trust. So at that point I just became very quiet person. I didn't want to speak to anyone. I didn't want anyone knowing why I was there, who put me there? Anything? Again, into a Patio five. Finally get a mattress and it's like this little paper fin foam type mattress and walk in. I'm obviously because ever I was already injured. All these people swarm down and they just pick up mattress, pick up my little baggy and they're gone. They took my stuff, and I remember

just going, I just got robbed again. And when you walk into Patio five, there's this huge white white gate here, and then there's stairs and it's four flights of stairs, and I just remember standing there and I must have had the most dumbfounded look on my face and going did anyone else see that? Like? Is this normal? And then I finally get up to where I had to, where my cell was, and my stuff was there, and I was like, oh, okay, well, and then I was

very fortunate. I my first cell mate. She was absolutely lovely. She gave me some clothes as she told me that I really stank.

of the hard times. I just want to get this out on a quote from your book, because you found a nice cell mate there, but it was just a journey for you the whole time, because you got moved around and different cell mates and different ones. But a quote from your book, you stabbed by your crazy cell mate. A y Jara's attack was relentless, fueled by a fury that seemed to transcend reason. The blade dance perisoley close, fear and adrenaline intermingled in me. The metallic tang of

blood lingered in the air. I felt the sudden surge of pain each time the needle was pushed into my abdomen, legs, and arms. I couldn't stop her. She was crazy and I had no strength. I was certain that was the end. Your words, your your book. That's a pretty heavy situation.

And just to put it in context before you talk about it was like a knitting needle that was filed filed down and serrated edge, and that was your cell mate that you knew something was brewing because you're just crazy talk us through through that situation.

anyone either. We instantly didn't get along, and the more I got to see the type of person she was, the worse at God. And at this point I was starting to stand up for myself, so starting to not be such a pushover anymore. Not that I could speak great Spanish, but I was being able to defend myself. So this lady, in particular, she was the right hand man to one of the current worst cartels in Columbia. My pot luck.

against me, and I remember we had a fight. I think it was probably one of the first physical fights in that patio that I had, and she punched me and the person who lived next to me in the other cell, she came in and stopped what was going on. And then later that night, which was when she attacked me, so she knitted. She knit it. She attacked me with a knitting needle. And I knew something was coming that night because she just be a few hours beforehand. She

just was out of character. She wasn't acting like she normally did, you know. She pretended to go to sleep early, and it was just lots of little things, and I remember the first initial feeling of that metal going through my stomach and the shock of it, and the first thought not because that first stab wound is what really caught me, and it was the main trigger pain that

I was feeling, not the others she was doing. It was she's going to kill me here, and no guards will step into something like that and really stop it. So I was I knew I had just I knew that I just wasn't going to get through that, and if I did, it would have been a miracle because the amount of time she stabbed me, it was there was a lot of blood, the smell of blood, and I started losing consciousness and she just she was screaming

towards the end. She was absolutely crazy. And I do remember the guards eventually coming in and obviously then being taken out into to medical and obviously getting because they don't do stitching, they don't do anything that little bits of glue put into all of these little stab wounds, and it was just nothing happened to her. They didn't do anything to her. It was just it happened, and

now you live with it. And then I had to go back and still live with her kind of like, well, round two, let me do this again, it was so there was no order or anything in that prison at all. It was basically the inmates were to themselves regards to themselves. And she she was just a psycho. And she threatened me that I was gonna be killed, I was gonna be knocked off when I got out, that she was gonna, you know, have my prison sentence stretched out longer. That

she threatened me with so much. And the problem was that because of her position in such a it's what is it called, It's called the Clandegolf, the cartel, and she just really got that into me. And so again felt terrified that the day that I am released, if I didn't have to worry about other people, do I now have to worry about this as well? Or because she just didn't like.

But one thing that when I say one thing, a lot of things shocked me in your book, but as a result of a punishment where and this is my take on it. They couldn't offices or the people are supposed to be looking after you, couldn't bash you in

theory or there's potential trouble. But they did one of the most nasty way of torturing you by taking you, just grabbing you, taking you to place to see the dentist, even though you didn't have problems with your teeth, hold you down in the dentist's chair, and then have this psychopath dentist just drilling your teeth as punishment. And what are you going to complain that you got held down and had your teeth drilled?

I didn't think things like this could actually happen. Until obviously I'm put in the chair and they start looking at my teeth and then obviously pushing back, looking back at my back teeth, and all of a sudden, I feel the guard's hands gripped down my arms on the side, and chair goes back, and this dentist she just starts drilling into my back tooth and the pain, or that that nerve pain, it shot through my whole body. And I wasn't too bad with dentists before then to live

through that agonizing pain. And it was about five minutes, but I can tell you it felt like an entire lifetime of being being drilled at this one tooth. And then when it was over, that was it, and they left it exposed. Oh they left it exposed for about three weeks, so it was this constant feeling there. But the thing is when they did fill it in, they didn't do it properly either. So over the years, obviously I think probably about two years ago part of the

filling actually came out. Until today it still hasn't been fixed. Because I am so terrified to go into a dentist and have anything done. I think my wisdom teeth out and I went and got next ray and they actually started, you know, playing around and touching with the utensils, and I was like, don't you dare touch that side of my face and they're like, oh, it's okay. I'm like, don't touch it. Don't touch it. If you want to touch something in here, knock me out, Like I can't.

I can't go through that again. And that is probably of all things, it is a trauma that will stay with me more than anything for the rest of my life and something that's so necessary in everyday life, because it's not every day I'm going to walk back into a prison and be in front of that trauma. This is something so simple.

You also had to deal with a lot of media attention too, which yeah, that would have been hard, Like sixty minutes of interview interviewing you over there before you're even being sentenced at court, and you had I think one of you are one of the person that you considered the friend had taken the photo and sold it to the media, and then you became a hot ticket item in the jarl that people get fatos that sell it to the media, all of which would have made

you stand out, and that's the last thing you want to want to do in the prison. I would imagine what was your take on the media and did you realize the extent of the media interest back here in Australia worldwide for that matter.

And yes, I was completely exposed to media. I'm not a fan of the media, and I think it would have shown in probably my first court hearing where I walk into this courtroom and I look angry because I walk in and this whole courtroom is full of media. I'm like, this is it, Like, this is my life. Whether I survive this prism, whether I don't, this is

what I will be remembered for. And not coming out and speaking about what happened and what I went through, It'll just be trafficked five point eight kilos of cocaine. That's it. So media has has been quite harsh in the sense of it doesn't matter. Even if I have tried to, you know, tell all stuff, it's never been tell all. It's always been let's dramatize it, let's keep that out and let's change that and let's do this. So it hasn't really mattered what I've tried to do.

This kind of way is the only way to actually get it out there where you can have a conversation with me. It's not, I guess under pressure, because nobody unless you have been on the other side of an interview. It is horrible. It is so horrible, and obviously with a sixty minutes I got crucified for absolutely anything. If I move my hands, if I got red on my chest, if I touched my face. It was behavioral instincts for lying. It was this, it was that. So it was just horror.

Even till today, I think most people will find that I am very quiet on social media. I don't post my life on there. I might post bits and pieces. I have a very private, quiet life because I don't unless I'm trying to do something good with what's happened to me, I won't come out. I won't milk the situation at all. Although people obviously believe, you know that I get rich off of doing things and this and that,

but I don't. And the real reason why I stopped, you know, I stepped out into the spotlight again, especially with this book, because I do believe that it can be of use and a reminder to some people that you can go through hell. You can go to hell and back. But it doesn't mean you have to give up. It doesn't mean that's who you are. That on the other side of all these misfortunes, life can be nice.

You can try again. There's no limit on how many times you can try to get it right, as long as you keep trying.

survive in prison. But you've chosen you can smile about talking about the most horrendous things, and you know media can take advantage of that. But yeah, I suppose on the back of Chappelle Corby who followed the prior to that, there was this interest and they Cocaine Cassie. The name stuck and people just tried to get.

was told not to. And then you know, all the pressure behind the scenes with everything that was actually happening in prison, and it was, it was, and I didn't want to do that interview above all, I didn't want to do it.

something called libert dad connal, which is basically parole. So once you have completed three fifths of your sentence, which for me was if I remember correctly, it was like thirty nine and a half months, so it was just over three No, sorry, it was forty three and a half months, so just over three years. I did physically two years, eleven months and twenty one days in prison.

I'd completed I think roughly six months worth of discount through teaching and everything else that I did, which meant I was above the scale to be released on parole. And unfortunately it actually happened around the same time that COVID hit Colombia.

a room in an apartment building. Although free, I didn't feel free, and I'd had this hole when I get out, I'm going to get a job, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, and I couldn't. So this whole mind set up, this structure that i'd put in place I couldn't do, and it was it was really hard to it's really hard to actually deal with COVID over there because I couldn't get any medical I couldn't do a lot of stuff, and I shouldn't complain, because

anything was better than being in that prison. But I still felt like, in a certain way, I was still I was still in a prison because I had to stay in Colombia for another twenty seven months until I had completed the full physical term of my sentence, which meant every month I had to report myself to immigration.

And I laughed because, ah, when COVID was in Colombia, I couldn't report myself to immigration because they were shut So I was technically undocumented for nearly seven months in Colombia. Couldn't get didn't get sent money, I couldn't get money out of a bank. I couldn't do anything.

you're completely completely foreign. One thing, and I want to talk about the release from prison, but what we haven't touched on is that the work that you did in prison, and that you you alluded to it there with your your discounts because you were teaching English and that was something that you're really passionate about in prison and something that you were helping people in a lot of ways.

I'd never taught my own language to anyone before, and to go back and actually have to learn things about my own language, it was bizarre because you know, we might say something in a certain way because we say it that way, so to actually find why. And I was very fortunate that teaching English to my inmates, it was really fulfilling to watch them want to learn this life skill a language, because when they got out, they knew that this whole different set of opportunities would wait

for them. Because English over there is such a huge, huge tool as far as getting head in life. And I would go above and beyond with all of my inmates to try and make sure that I was constantly advancing understanding, to the point where I actually managed to get an outside English college to actually basically team up, give me all the materials, give them certificates that reflected as if they were outside outside experience with speaking English

to get a job. And this particular college was also working towards getting a call center set up for these ex inmates as well. So there was this huge project that I was involved in, and in those moments of teaching, I suddenly was one of the inmates, if that makes sense.

I was one of them because they respected me. There's always this mutual respect between inmates because you don't know what they're capable of, and to be their teacher not misuse I guess the authority that I have as a teacher with them and still treat them as if we're an equal. I was helping them with funny enough, with their legal documents writing. I can write anything in Spanish perfectly. I know some of I know a lot of laws

in Colombia. Studied a lot over there, studied nursing, studied criminology, studied lots of things, and it was really interesting to obviously be the person that they all turned to when they needed help. And I think I still remember this day, just this one, this inmate that was really really good with me. She was almost like a mum to me. She was a very motherly figure. I was crying one

day in Patio seven. I hadn't been sentenced yet, and she wasn't meaning to be giving me tough love, but it was tough love because she goes, she spoke really broken English, by the way, to kind of give you a visual on this, she goes, stop crying, and when someone told you to stop crying, you naturally cry more. And she goes, but you're okay, you're healthy, you're fine. You don't have kids, and you kind of learn not to ask people why they're there. You wait for them

to tell you. It's not something you obviously try to get out of them. And I sat there quiet because it was true I didn't have kids. And she goes, me and my husband are in prison, my kids are out there alone. We need a motion, and it was just sometimes we're so absorbed in our own problems that we don't stop and think how bad it is. For someone else, and that moment for me was very triggering because it was a focus point for me to go, what I'm going through is horrible, it sucks. My life

is literally the definition of hell at the moment. But it could be worse. It could be so much worse, and she she made me understand that. And so from that moment, from so early on in my time in prison, I was going through such hard things, but I still went and said, somebody else has got it worse than me. Somebody else will always have it worse than what I've got. And I think the strength that I actually have within me to keep pushing through and keep going, Okay, I've

got to pick myself up. I can do this, I can do better. I've run towards challenge knowing that I will very well full flat on my ass because unless I'm being challenged now, I know that I'm not really learning more about myself because unless we are pushed to our limit, we don't we don't grow, we don't learn to self reflect or anything. Really.

Not sure if this will make you sad or put a smile on your face, but I think it's worth reading out because this is something that one of the prison guards said to you when you were leaving prison, and I've just made a note here. I think it sums up a lot about your time in prison. And I just read this quote out, and this is a prison guard saying this to you.

There was another benefit from your time over there. I might try and put a smile on your face here, but you did find.

each other. It sounds really like corny because we were constantly in the same areas, on the same street, a few doors down from each other, because I gave English classes to a certain business on that area. So one day we were going to meet, and it just so

happened that when we did meet, we were friends. And then eventually, I think after the first, first or second day, I sat him down and I told him, told him everything, because I didn't I didn't want that burden of trying to explain how I've been here for so long and I've seen so little of Colombia, or you know, those sorts of things. And all he said to me was, I can't judge you on your past, whether you did it, whether you didn't do it. I can't judge your past.

All I can All I can do is watch and see what you do with your present and future. And that was it. And we've had heaps of conversations about everything that I've gone through in prison, he too can't believe what I went through. Him being from that country. He has basically said that's it's absolutely disgusting, and he goes, you should do something about it. I'm like, well, I can't really do anything about it from here now, can I?

Because obviously, as most people know that, like I did want to study law, I did want to go back and study law. I feel like probably be quite a quite a harsh lawyer. Sometimes you'd be ruthless. Yeah, but yeah, So we got married in two thousand and twenty two in March. If you've ever seen like one of those comedy movies about where anything and everything can go wrong

for a wedding, that was me very funny. Now to think about it, even when I speak about it, it's hilarious, but obviously at that point in time it was not hilarious at all. Still got married though, So we got married, and and we arrived back in Australia in August twenty twenty two. And yeah, we've basically been constructing our life here.

It's been tough. It's tough for me in general. But I think what makes it worse because I do carry a lot of a lot of the weight and the burden of obviously having such a high profile for not a good thing. I'm constantly worried about the effect that that has on on my family, on my nephews, on my partner, because people can be really harsh in that aspect, like the problem is with me, it's not with them.

And I think that's part of the reason why I constantly actually I think that's part of the reason why the book was so important to get it out there, because I don't I don't want them to think that I'm hiding from what I did or that it's okay too, I guess not. I don't even know the right word to say, Like, I want them to see that it's okay to make a mistake as long as as I said, as long as you keep trying and you take responsibility

for it. And that's something that I would rather be remembered for somebody who who screwed up, made the biggest mistake of her life, but she still moved forward, rather than oh, she did this type thing. Because everything that I have managed to overcome since coming back to Australia, it is a whole nother ballgame to say there were many times that I could have just gone this is too hard. I can't do this because it's not been easy.

It's been a constant battle with medicare, with my license, with banks, with absolutely everything I do get harshly judged by people. Some people are really good, some people can be really harsh, which obviously pushed me back in a perspective. When it does happen to me and someone treats me like absolute crap, I feel terrible and it knocks me back for a good, good week or so. I will crawl back into my little, my little safe retreat, and I go, ah, this is why I don't This is

why I'm not in social media. This is why I don't do anything, because I'm so harsh on myself sometimes that I can't let myself go back to that point in my life so little, It wasn't that long ago where I hate myself, where I believe everything that people say about me. I refuse to go back there. And it's so easy to do it.

you stick your head up to keep you down. I see the inspiration that you can show people you life can be at rock bottom and you can't get much further than being stabbed in a Columbian prison.

I do tend to keep it very quiet until it's it's it's ready to go ahead family wise, possibly in the next couple of years, maybe moving forward and having a having a family as well. I think we're just really still trying to focus on whether it's here or there, okay, because I I don't think, I really really love Columbia. I think it's a great country once you get past the bad stuff. So I think, yeah, behind we're behind the scenes, we're still trying to figure out if it's

here or there. And I guess, yeah, just moving forward with constantly wanting to help people. And I think that's a big part of why I decided that I wanted anything from the book to obviously go to charities that have vulnerable people, because you just never know what the most simple little bit of help, what it can do for someone, and people that need it most, they will never ask for it. They will suffer in silence until it's too late.