The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective sy aside of life. The average person is never exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world. In part one of my sit down with Ierne Roberts, we talked about his football career, the discrimination he faced, and the pressures of coming out as a gay man.
We're now going to talk about a very dark period in Then's life when Aaron Light, a young boy he cared for and helped, was brutally murdered and the guilt earned feels for what happened. And also told us about his time at Neither his acting career, his personal battles, and what he is doing to make the world a kind of place. This was a very raw and emotional discussion with a powerful message, that message being the importance
of being true to yourself. I think Iran considers himself as an average man, but he found himself in extraordinary situations and he discovered who he is and I think has made the world a better place. Have a listen, then welcome back to I Catch Killers. You made it to part two.
Yeah, okay, are you sounding like that's that's that's a bar most people.
You're doing doing well. Look in part one, I appreciate your openness and honesty about what you went through as a prominent, high profile one of the highest profile footballers in the country and then coming out gay and how that how that played out. I mentioned in part one that I want to talk about the murder of Aaron Light and this is I apologize there because I know it digs up some bad, heavy memory memories for you. Set the circumstances in terms of when Aaron came into
your life. When did you first meet meet Aaron?
It would have been about nine ninety I was living at Campadown, it was he was in the Camperdown Children's Hospital. I was to staying there on a visit. I thing we used to do. It was either eighty nine or nine, because I can't remember. I still have this day. I can't remember. It was with the house or with Manly and Aaron was in hospital. I was living in Campa Down.
He was in the Campadown Children's Hospital there. He was about nine or nine or ten, and he'd been Yeah, he'd been in the hospital for quite a while and at that stage you had had complications with a knee injury. And he was in this medieval contraption that was there was pins going in like like it was.
Just had attraction.
It was it was uh and he was just this kid who was really cheeky, and I kind of like because he was so cheeky and and he wasn't a football supporter or rugby league supporter. He was just like it was just it was just this kid had a real sense of hearing with about him. He was steady criticizing us and bagging us and.
This is you guys turn up as.
Whatever. You know, it's one of those those footage. So he was giving it back to Yeah, but he was just like, what are you doing here? You're just doing it for the publicity. It was, and it was quite it was quite beyond his year, like he was quite sharp, you know. And then you won't come back here. It was something like that, you know, And I said, I live across the road. I'm just going to come back to you doing know.
You know.
It was one of that, and that's kind of how our relationship started. I just he was in hospital. I couldn't tell you how long it was format for a long time. I had so many complications with his name, but I'm saying probably three or four months. I pop in every couple of weeks or whatever today, and we end up just becoming kind of friends. Yeah that sounds weird, but you know, yeah it was. It was. It was like it sounds. It was just ended up becoming a mate.
He got out of hospital and he had my phone number. He'd ring up every so often say here are you going whatever? I suppose. In the next couple of years, I only saw him once. Maybe we went to the movie. I took him in the movies or something and his dad. Yeah, and then then I didn't see him again for a little while. Then what you was that must be ninety three ninety four. Bumped into him on the street. Ye, I was a friend of mine, my flatmate Kirsty, and
he kind of just struck up a friendship again. He was he wasn't living at home, he was he said he was living in and around the cross across on Bondidi. Yeah, but he was always he was always street wise. Like he bumped into him on the street and I took him to it to the game the next day, met him and his mate Elliott. I think his mate's name was Elliot Middle. He's also he disappeared as well, never
been found. Yeah, and that's and then I don't know, like he stayed in touch, like he I was living in I was still living we're still living at camping down at that stage.
And so did he he was about fifteen at the time. Yeah, And did he move in with you guys?
Eventually he did. It stayed like that. He'd come over once or twice a week at that stage. I used to tell me he used to make money from like like it sounds terrible, but like breaking into the cars and that type of thing and selling tape.
And you you grew up around housing.
Yeah, the world. Yeah, I'm not here, not for me to judge like a fifteen year old kid. So yeah, what happened was one night he rang me. He was and he was very upset, and I just asked him where he was. He said he was in his squat Bond Eye. Went down to Bond Eye where he didn't say it was a squat. He said, he's hostel And it wasn't a hostel. It was just a squat, an old house. It was walking there. It was not good. It was really like it was just an old the house.
Was it since been it was you know, it was pulled down, Yeah, demolished. He'd just been staying there and a couple of other young bikes. I just said, you know, grabey stuff and may come you come and stop with us for a while.
Yeah.
We had a spare bedroom at that time. I was then with my in the Shane, Kirsty was in the other room and Aaron, So we kind of made a deal. Like he had been coming over like once or twice a week anyway, and Kirsty was looking after him, like cleaning his clothes.
And providing base by the sound of it, Yeah.
It's anyway, and we just we kind of decided, you know, like you can stay here with us, you've got to go to school. That was the only thing. And you've got to you know, you got to reach out to your mo and dad and yeah, so that's what happened. It was good. Like the first few months he was for whatever reason, we were living at Campana and he wanted to go to walclous High. I don't know like why,
but that's but he did. He got up every morning and caught a couple of butts, like and he was living a normal life.
He was you thought I thought he was heading in the ro like he was good.
Here's always his cheeky like me and him used to upstairs and where we were, we lived in a nice place. It was a pool like a lap pool upstairs. There was a tennis caught upstairs on the roof and Jim sauna like we mean, I trained with him every so often, like in the gym, and that I was. I was just his mate, like it was like he's I will say this, Aaron always had a problem with with authority. Didn't have much of an opinion of the police. He
just absolutely was dead against the police. But I was you know, we used to make him bring his mom and dad, like I was probably like I can honestly, I can honestly say like one of the only males in his life that he respected, like love like love like it like yeah, yeah, I.
Know it's probably hard for you talking about it on there, but there was there was a genuine affection and love between the whole group of you.
He knew I was guy as well. Yeah, that's the other thing. And like he never had a problem with Shane. He was always like he was always totally respectful, like he was perfect, Like it was so respectful. He was like he used to tell me, you guys mates, your buddies. Yeah, and that's exactly like it because we know we did. It's hard to explain, mate, Like we had spoken about the situation, what it might look like, you know, I meanly.
His and look and I'll say it because it's part of your Your concern was that you've got a young kid living with you, You've come out as gay.
That's why I wanted him to say in touch with his family, and I wanted them to know, like I speak to them occasionally.
A genuine act of kindness for the high risk potentially.
Could I just to be clear, honestly, it wasn't just an act of kindness. It wasn't about kindness. It's just this it was like with my friend. People like people really struggle to understand that, even the whole corners in case, like they struggled to understand it's like this young man is my friend. Like this young boy is my friend. Like it's like that was because I was at that stage. I don't know, I would have been nearly thirty twenty nine, and he was like fifth Like, people don't get that
he was my friend. Yeah, I mean they quite in the true sense of the word mate my friend.
Yeah no, I think the way the way you were explaining, that's understandable, understandable. So it went then there was dramas that happened or did he go off the rails or start.
To I had the police arn you one day and asked if they could come around and see me, and yeah, you know, I asked him what it was about, They said, Aaron. And so when they came they told me what he had been involved in previously. They also said to me that they knew now he was like the house had been underlans. They were quite aware that he was going to school and all that. That was all shocked as well. Yeah, like more than just a shock, it was.
And I was spinning because they basically said that he was caught up with in a pedophile.
Yeah, he'd been checked at pedophiles houses and that type of thing, and leading that was before he was living with us. That's how he'd been supporting himself.
And put you in a difficult, potentially difficult position.
Yeah, And this is where this becomes hard because I hear what you're saying, but I knew from I knew from them at that moment that was well, I was thinking about it like it was. I was worried about I just come out and all that, and just like people are going to surmise what they think has happened.
And anyway, the police wanted me to bring it up with him and see if he'd make some statements against these people, because I've had other young kids who weren't willing to meet the statements and their parents.
And I just put on record too here and that I know the police officer that was involved in it. And yeah, they've said that first they're looking at everyone with suspicion that's just the coop mentality, but they realize that.
Yeah. I will say that the police, a person that I was in touch with, he was absolute champion. But he's like, for as much as he could he put me, he just said, you know you are not a suspect. In the same we realized the reason we've come to you where he realizes Aaron trusts you and he's in a safe space here and he's been he's not been checked at those people's places ever since he's been living here, which is reassuring, but it's also not reassuring, you know.
It's just like they asked me if I because I also knew that he had a real issue with authority and talking to police.
And they asked you to help me to ask Yeah.
And I I always say, it's giving my time over again, it was this. I would have done exactly the opposite to what I ended up doing. I said that I would talk to him because I didn't even know what I was thinking of that day. It was just like it was a blurt. It was almost like it's it's hard to explain my head being I just come out as this gay man. I was just like I can just see the newspapers.
Now, I just understandable.
I was just I was just getting ready to sign a contract to go to not just with News Limit, not with Super leg That wasn't the reason I went to Townsburg because it was as far away from Sydney as that. That's why I ended up going there anyway.
So Aaron come, you know, police left, Aaron came home, told him and it's like one of those moments I just wish, knowing what I know now, I just wish that I said to the police officer that day, I'm not going to bring this up to He's in a safe space now that he's working.
We're not going to destroy his life what you're carrying.
Yeah, I just if I if I had said nothing to Aaron, I'm sure that the boy was he would still be alive.
You know.
I really wish that I just said, no, he's in a safe space now. He's good. You know. He and his mates would come around, and he had a girlfriend at one stage, like it was. It's really it was just going to things that he was really happy, like things are good, like he was just.
I was like, yeah, he was just good kid, And what the feelings that you've got the regrets. Is that you the place wanted Jew to encourage him to give sentence.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's it says when he came home, I had that conversation. This finding is really difficult. It was the worse thing that was just it's it's talk about I don't know how to say regrets not a big enough word. But I just know now that I just I really read him, I really read him down, and like I feel like I've Yeah, at that moment, it's still like I thought I was okay with this, and I'm just talking about it. You know, it's just
like I really let him down. I just from the person he trusted, He loved me, but he so respected me, care about me. Yeah, I just let him down. I just.
Hindsight. You know, we're all wise with hindsight. I mean, in that situation, you're trusting the police. The police obviously trying to try and to do the right thing. It's a kids being caught up in a situation and they're trying to stop horrendous criminals. But yeah, you sit here in hindsight, who knows how it turns out? And I see, let me say this, I see a lot of people when the murders have happened and situations have happened, and there's a lot of self blame for the people left behind.
But look at what you're doing. You guys were helping helping him get his life in order, pointing him in the right direction. Come from friendship and care. So that's not a bad thing.
Yeah, no, I hear, and I appreciate you saying that. But the truth, I mean, the absolute truth is I know the truth, and I just know that that wasn't that was that, that wasn't my my soul motivation in that point. It was terrified people that would jump to the wrong conclusion, right, Yeah, that was and that's what that's that's what hurts. I just knowing what I know now and how things are, just like I wouldn't give a fuck if everyone knew I thought I was like
a pedophile. It sounds awful like he'd still be a lot like it. I don't even know how to explain it. Well, I get what you're saying, so.
And I understand where you're coming from. And it's a heavy heart. I'm sitting here listening to you beat up on yourself yourself about it. And yeah, but also be kind to yourself that at that time perfectly understandable what you're going, what you were going going through that. Yeah, it's an extraordinary said, that set of circumstances you found yourself in.
Yeah, yeah, it's I do know. That conversation with Aaron changed everything after that because he just he agreed to make statements and I went to Townsville. I just wanted to go out of Sydney. Yeah, he went downhill terribly, you know. Yeah I wasn't there. Yeah, it's weird. I wasn't there, Like I just I just wanted to be away, not away from him. I was always thinking about him and caring about him, but I was just terrified of you know, I just turned up in Townsville. As they made me captain.
I just started saying. Just prior to Aaron moving just after Aaron moved in, Shane and I had broken up. Sorry, that was just prior to Aaron moving in. And then just when I went to Townsville, I met another by then my partner then Andrew. Andrew and I staid together for six years and we're still best friends now. But I always felt, yeah, I wish I was being being clear and mate it is kind of weird.
I think in the way you're articulating it, it's understandable, and I hear the heavy heart that you have with it and the emotions that come with it, And yeah, I can't change it. I can just but what I can say is an experience as a homicide detectively, there's not a murder I've seen where someone innocent that has nothing to do with it blames themselves when it's all
said and done. For those that don't know that, after you've moved up there, Aaron disappeared prior to giving evidence against the pedophiles, and his skills or remains were found not far from here at Saint Peter's.
That's terrible, you know how they it's awful. Even the way they discovered that it was where they found out that they that it was Aaron's body his knee because he had such complications when I first meeting with his knee, his knee had become quite deformed. It was like a bulbous type of thing. Yeah, that's that's how they discovered it was Ara's body, the Bible's knee. They didn't know who it was at first.
How how did you process the whole thing, like when you found out what had happened to him.
He'd been like the last night. In fact, Aaron two was in nine ninety seven. I was just preparing for the member of the Try series that super leg used to have.
Yeah, so it was for the I think it.
Was the second game and anyway, but I was just packing my bag, getting ready to leave Townsville to go into camp, and I got a phone call off a policement. Aaron had been arrested again for stealing, and he wouldn't talk to police. The only person who talked to was me, so they'd phone me up and put him on and I was trying to calm him down, but he was screaming. He was angry at me by that stage as well,
like you know, which is quite entirely. He was so entitled to be that it just felt like he was alone. He was saying that stuff, and I just I was trying to convince him to to cooperate with with the police, and he was saying a lie that I put him in touch with. He disappeared three days later. That was it. Aaron's body was found in two thousand and two. God, ed, uh, it's just weird. It was just that was the last time I spoke to him. It was He's one of
those moments. What he said, he was so spot on, like you know, I had so let him down, like he disappeared, Like I said, three, he just left the police station, disappeared. I supposed to give evidence three days later, never turned up in court.
And the murder still unsolved. Yes, at this point they had an inquest. You got dragged into the inquest.
The inquest was quite the process. And anyone who knows anybody the currents in quest knows that there are interested parties. You can ask your questions. Yes, a couple of those parties were pedophiles, well suspected what one of them was suspected, which is quite like intimidating the grubs. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how else to say it, Mate, Like, yeah, it's just it is. It's kind of the whole error, not whole, the whole I nely I did it again,
said the whole our experiences. It's just an experience in my life. It's just just you know, it's it's hard to explain, but it's you don't do the right thing because it's the right thing to do just do the right thing. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah, you don't do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. Just do the right thing. And it's one of those yeah consequences, you know, knock on effects.
It's a it's a heavy burden to carry for you. And I hope you're not being too hard on yourself.
And yeah, well you know, we're doing a we're actually like doing a docou on mate, which allows me to speak about it, but like in depth.
And well I would be interested interested to say it when when it comes out, because I know.
I've got to be honest. I thought I was this is the first time I spoken about it for a while. I thought I was ready to talk about but that was yeah, yeah, I actually like I feel that waist whatever that Yeah, maybe I'm I know.
Not it's you don't get people say you can get closure from.
But I just want to say he was such a good kid, mate. He was just you know, like every time that people speak about our tragic well, he was such a good kid. He was such a like a life lively, funny, cheek cheek the cheefest. Yeah, he was more of an adult than I was, you know, I.
Like the fact and you see a lot of the kids around here in these type of areas in the Housing Commission are street wise. But I like the fact that the nine year old lay there in the hospital can give it to you, big tough footballers coming in and give you give your cheek. It says a lot about the character.
Of the pr holl you know. But yeah, but he was just a good.
Yes, well yeah, And I'm sure people have said, people smarter than I have said, well, good on you for making his life good for a period of period of time.
And again I feel fortunate that I.
Had a look at the case. Just what's on record, and it's still unsolved at this stage, we've unsolved and anyone that's got any information. And I saw some of the stuff that went on at the inquest. I had a bit of a look at that. And these convicted pedophiles, and I've seen convicted pedophiles give evidence at cranial inquest. I wouldn't trust a word they say. They'll give any any respect. They're despicable human beings. How has it changed you the way you look at life.
It's just just about of respect and judgment and just like quality of life and just like I don't know, like it sounds dicky, mate, enjoy the small things man, you know, like like like just saying john Like like I can say to you now because you know Johnny, Like just saying Johnny the other day, Like make an effort to get out and see it, just see people see all like you know, like I have felt like
as you get older, you know your close off. But for some reate like just being being being aware that like you're going to reach out to people, just say how they go you like, just like just stay in touch, Like it's simple things.
I think you know, and we touch on Johnny and you're not the first person who won't be the last person that mentions him. I've had good guys, bad guys, everyone come through and the amount of influence. But you touch on something I hadn't really thought about with Johnny, the effort he does make to reach out to people. And he is always every day he's catching up with someone or he'll just find you out of the blue or whatever. And maybe that is part of the secret secret.
To laugh It is as you get older, mate, as you like, particularly as you get all those like again, you're like, you know, when when I said this before, when you're twenty, you're never going to be sixty.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
My mom's eighty five. But I just like we spoke of it before. Just my mom still has regrets in that, you know, like when I was talking about the way I came out and stuff like that. You know, it's like it's everything starts with a conversation, just like judgment, like just don't be so, don't be so to judge, Like it's you know, we've all got shit.
Going on, and then no one, no one's perfect.
I mean, you've heard all that before a thousand times. But I think as you get old, it's just like, you know, I'm mad, I'm wealthy in you've got nothing to do with money. And that's how I feel, you know, like I can say that quite openly, Like particularly the last six months, and I bet the last six or twelve months, I've felt like I had this whole different like this this this awakening for me in life, and
just like how precious, how wonderful it is. My relationships you know, with both my sisters, my brother and my mom, I like the best they've ever been. I like, but that that comes from making an effort and being aware that, Like you know, I have a wonderful relationship with my partner and my partners like family, his mom and his sister and her family.
Like have you said those twenty years.
Down in Bedianning nearly twenty years? Yeah, but I mean even that, like you know, like I'm so grateful for that. I mean, I but you know, my my my ex partners, like Andrew who we said, he's still in my life, like he's someone I still love and care for, Shame who passed away, like he was still in my life. I'm really grateful that they're part of my family. And I'm really grateful that my current partner, Dan feels like he realizes, you know, that they're part of that part
of our family. I'm really grateful.
Well, you've done done well to get that, because there's so many people that don't have that type of situation. But if you've spent some time with people in a relationship, it's sad if it goes sour, Yeah, I.
Mean I get things. Do you go so and all that, you know, And again I'm not judging anyway, but I'm just like I just I you know, I'm really grateful for Andrew, because if I don't meet Andrew, I don't meet Daniel, you know, like not but not only for that reason, but you can think of it. I've been very fortunate, mate.
Okay, a period of time that you've described as your most content is when you went to Neither. So tell us about that experience.
I loved it, mate, Like I Like I said, I was always a show off as a kid. I was. I used to love getting that there and and showing off and running. I used to think I could. I can't dance. Well that's not true.
Actually I'm checking the nights Dancing with the Stars.
I made the final mate always a bridesmaid, and yeah, I was runner up. It was great, mate, it was like I was. I was terrible, man, it was like, but it was so much fun. Natalie Natalie Laye was my partner, and that we had such a wonderful relate, like just a really good friendship. And we started training for that, like it's kind of a weird process. The show runs runs for ten weeks, and we started training back for that about about six weeks before the first episode.
And like I but again, it was a bit like I've been through anighted by that stage, and I kind of realized the art sort of thing. Sometimes you just got to let things get into your body. And that's what dancing is. You got to let it get into your body. It's not you know, left foot right, foot foot left or when if you're doing that, you're not dancing, you.
Know what I mean, you just go of the flat. Yeah.
Yeah, but it took me a while to understand that too. And then about about seven weeks into the run of the show, so you know, I've now been dancing with nat for the third eight weeks and she was like Australian champion, she'd been world champion. She was wonderful and she was so patient with me. Is when I get I had one of those moments, I said, I don't know if I said when I was playing footy. Sometimes
you get into it. You had those stages in your career where's supremely confident, you're in in that flow whatever. You know. I've had those stages. You know, I've had those moments on stage as well. When you think, oh, I get it, I'm making everything, she kind of opens up and like, I get it, I get what we're doing. The same thing with the dancing thing. Like thirteen weeks in we were doing the chacha. No it was a tango.
It was a tango, and I just remember like I was just and it just kind of dropped in when we're on air and just like I get this stuff. Just just enjoy the music and just let it in your body and that you're moving now like it was. It was one of those really beautiful moments you just say, Yes, I didn't learn to dance until week third e and I want to say learned to dance.
Understand, what the of all the things you've done? Total respect for that, because I reckon I'd prefer to run out against a pack of marauding forwards and do dancing with the stars. That's let's But it was pressure.
Again again, Like I was lucky I hadn't that because we were just having fun, right she like I was like Franken start like yeah I was, and I was. I was terrible, but uh it's almost like she built she she created, Yeah, she created this monster. She molded it.
You know, got the work yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and we you know, the good thing is because we were having such a good time together and I was always apologizing to it on air and saying that such an uglhood like, but I was honest, like I just felt like so like she was an incredible dance and she's she's moving around with this, you know, like it was me and it was just moving there and I'd like, I think the audience kind of fed that. I was
just enjoying myself and we were just enjoying ourselves. I mean, we used to score the lowest which we get loaded on. We kept him by the audiences and Alo. It was wonderful, mate, that.
That comes across, doesn't It.
Got such a nice experience, mate, It was such at I think in the final we we even't scored a ten. We didn't deserve it, but we just had such a good like it was she finally got that she was great. Man. She was such a beautiful person.
I'm good on you for having the game. Now, going back to back to neither, what was it like going from the culture of the football team into the creative types in the artistic world.
It's good. Well, I went there as an inverted commas mature age student because I you know, I went there after I played footy and I'd already come out I was going there as this guy had this public platfile as a gay man like sports person. There was a lot of you know, and I don't I don't blame the doubters. Originally a lot of teachers thought it was a bit of a pr thing maybe, you know, and
I totally understand that. But but Kevin Jackson, who I spoke about before, had total confidence in me, and that that kind of gave me confidence because I knew how well respected Kevin was in the industry. Yes it was, and because I was the youngest person in our class. Roum was seven eight seven eight or eighty seven eight, I think it was, and the oldest apart from me, I think Chris about twenty six twenty seven. I was
much old. I was about thirty four thirty five, right, But I think going there as a mature, like I said, as a bit older it kind of gone. It did help me because you know, I mean, I was being serious. I was going there with full in time, giving it my best shop. But you know, this wasn't rockets, we weren't saving lives.
This is.
Really and create creativity. And a lot of the younger people thought, you know, this is then their make or break time. This is when they had that this the next three years they were going to get from here to Hollywood type thing. And I understand the intensity and they were like so intense, like used to blow me away, just how focused. So I think we kind of benefited each other. They've and we've since spoken about it. We had our twentieth anniversary a couple of years ago. We
all got together. The twenty five people who were in the class twenty three came to the well speak. We stayed. We stayed. We're still in touch with each other. We have a WhatsApp thing we all stay. So it's pretty good. Out of twenty twenty five, twenty three of us is
still in touch and we're all still good friends. And even though I've said that me being a bit older did kind of help them too, because I did did butt heads a couple of times with some people, some teachers, and they just like, you know, for whatever reason, I
was a dickhead as well. No, but just feeding off their energy, that their total commitment and the way they surrendered to these these like movement classes and stuff like I was a bit like scratching head whatever, you know, it's true, right, like all this stuff, but they totally surrendered to her. And it's not until again one of those moments when you allow yourself to go there, Oh, I kind of get this now. It was like I kind of understand, Like I didn't quite understand it, but
I kind of did. Then in the second year, it was second year, even like the first year, I had this moment. I was with Kate Box, who's quite a well known actor now, Kate Champion, she's fantastic actress. We're doing this I'm trying to think the name of the play. I can't think anyway, but Kate was I was. She was a female lead and I was a mile lead and we're in this scene together. And because i'd learned my lines and it was the end of the first year,
was the first play we've done, I'd ever done. But I remember being like on stage with her, and I had this moment. I just kind of had to check myself because I really because she was so good, right, Like she was so fantasy. But they all were like I always like the novice here, right, they were all so good. I didn't know who I was. I was just like, I don't know, Kate, are you? I don't know if I was talking to Kate Box or the character or it was just like she was so real.
I got like kind of threw me, Like it really threw me. I didn't know where I was or I was just like I don't know, I didn't know how to respond. But she's just been the act like she's fantastic, right. It was one of those moments I kind of like it kind of scratched the surface for me a bit and I kind of just got to peer in and see this other world. It's like, oh my god, if I can do that this And then in the second year, I had one of those wonderful moments where it just dropped.
Like again, just that that one moment. If I'm comparing it to sport, where you were in complete control, it's just like complete confidence, you know, like it just dropped in. I was on stage. It was an irish it'll come to me anyway, but but I just dropped and I just like, I get this. It was almost like, oh
my god, everything slowed down. It was like this perfect I was totally aware of the audience and their responses and and the other people on stage and how we're all working together, and there was this overhang of what the actual picture that the story was about. It was almost like, oh my god, I can see this whole of the world. It's just been opened up to me.
And that's what the arts do. And then I said that about dancing and later like it's the arts are amazing for creativity and just being giving you an insight into seeing other stuff that you know, like I was blind, Like I really like something. I kind of feel like before I went to night, I was seeing the world in black and white.
Yeah, and like it sounds a bit weird, but I get what you're saying.
It was like it was this whole other world that got opened to me that I had been living alongside. And I would I'd never dip my toe in the in the in the.
You've gone from ex dreams because they must have done something right, because you've you've had a good body of work with films and yeah, I mean.
We speak about this too. I mean I've been I've been quite lucky. But you know, in truth, if I had to survive on my acting checks, I quite hungry, you know what I mean. But I mean I have, like I said, twenty years now, but I have been working on off consistently for twenty years.
To drop some of the movies. You have made appearances on TV shows.
It sounds a bit dicky saying Superman and in furios. Yeah, there's been a whole load of like like small I mean when I went over in the States, I did like thirty movies in the States or like most of them were B grade. I was there for about four years. Yeah, yeah, but I had some leaves over movies like Saltwater, Like it's even doing those smaller B grade in some of them with slasher movies. But it was how do I
explain this? It kind of scratches it. You get like as a performer that the creativity and I'm not like now started well, I have been writing for a long time, but but having stuff that's actually being acknowledged, like it sounds a bit I'm not padding themself.
Well, you're starting to annoy me. You're a high achiever. We tick off the football, Yeah, play played for the country, and the movies that you've started you started writing. You've got the award just last year for writing a play. Tell us about that.
Into the Light. It's a play that that I started writing. I started writing about five years ago, and then another friend came aboard and we got it. Yes, it's just picked up. We're trying to get it produced up on stage. But it's even that type of thing. It's it is again. You know I said before that I've been living alongside that these other worlds that I never even the writing. Well, like it's another one of those things you get to I get to glimpse into this other world and it's
this of creativity. And you know, the one thing I couldn't read and write at school and the one thing I look back now that I that if I had my time over and I kind of knew as a young person some of the stuff that I've that I've learned, I would learn to play musical instrument and learn another language. Yeah, that's two things I really wish I'd spent some time doing.
You don't have an appreciation of what that can bring to your life if you pick up a skill skill set like that.
Yeah, and just the way it opens it gives opportunities or insight into other stuff that you're not even aware of, you know, Like I just education, education, education, education, It's like it's it's our means.
And broad tolerance Braden's minds and it's wonderful.
Mate.
I think it's interesting the experiences you've gone from different worlds. And I found it invigorating when my career and the Cops entered, and then I ended up into in the media, entertainment and different things, and it's like a new lease of life. And yeah, I think we're saying before we came on, I love hanging out with creative people like it. And in the Cops it was a lot of black and white thinking. A few people were creative and yeah, but all said and done, it was a lot of
black and white thinking. And then come into a different world and you've got these creative times.
It's fascinating being around other people and you know, just reading a script and then you reading the script and then them reading being in the room with them reading the script and they see something completely different and you're like, oh my god, how didn't I see that? Like, oh my god, I didn't see that color. I've missed all that texture. You know, I've missed that whole other world that you've just created, you know what I mean, Like stuff like that, stuff like that is like and that's
what I mean. They're having these whole, like other worlds I never knew existed.
Well, the first article I wrote for the papers that read like a flat a fact sheet and yeah, okay, you got to broaden it up. When you went there, what was the color of the house or what were the steps like that you walked up? Instead, it was at such and such a time. So I had to change the way, as you've said, the way you look at life, because I've got to look at the broader picture. Before it was just the facts and that was my writing.
So that's what I love. Theater made. I mean, it was just like you know that you would hope I mean theater the group I'm a part of court think about it, you know, like theater is about you know, it's it's you would hope a good theater production that you go and say, open your mind that make them laugh, make them cry, and make them think. You know what
I mean. That's you know, like and seeing it visually and in touch and you know, like always there's the fourth wall and all that, but you're still connect like it's that's what I mean. It's like the connection you have with the actors and you're sitting in front and I love like film.
And what you're doing with that, that work that you're doing there, Where are you Where are you doing?
We started are doing that with with the n r L, just touching on you know, they they're still having problems with their players or having problems with their players fifteen years ago, and that they just wanted some sort of program where they could talk about this stuff and hopefully educate they there was a thing that was being done,
not the same, somewhat similar. They'd seen this thing in the US where where players that players had got up on stage and they'd acted out some stuff in pro and so we kind of developed something not the same, this is much more engaging, uh. And it was you know, and we were speaking about about stuff that you know, that were it was uncomfortable for players to speak about openly.
But we used a lot of We use a lot of humor, I said before, We speak about stuff like, you know, like wilence towards women, misogyny, drugs in sport, homophobia, bullying, like it's stuff that you know, like the way you spend your money, and you know, like security, like a whole lot of different stuff. But and then we get some players up involved and in the scenes, the actors on stage, we know where it's driving through, so we keep them on, we keep them in check. We're driving
forward and then we have a discussion. But again we use a lot of humor and we make fun of ourselves all the time, so it's but it's serious stuff.
You know, a good way to get a message.
Yes, it's been fantastic. Like since doing the NRL, you know, we now do the a f L, the aau A League, basketball, most of the major sports contact sports in Australia. We also do corporations. We're doing the Australian Border Force at the moment, we've done all the whole out of banks, a lot of corporations.
If people want to reach out to.
Think about it, dot com, think about it. Yeah, it's it's it's it's been really really successful and it's great because you get to touch base and speak with people still involved creatively and in the sporting world.
It's good, good, good combination.
It's good and it's creative. It's also part of the creative process as well.
Yeah. Another thing that you've spoken out about concussion injuries in football. What's your take on that then, what's the impact that it's had on you because you've experienced it and you're going through it.
When I was over in the States, I was in the States from about twenty twelve to twenty fifteen, and a few other times for six months. A few other times in between those periods, I mean I was always pretty good. I started noticing I had an issue with my memory. Was when I was over in the States. I was always pretty good with auditions, getting the stuff down and getting in and then being able to play
around with the lines during the process. So I wasn't I didn't have to worry about recalling the lines all the time. I could worry about what was actually happening in the same I just started to feel a bit like it's things just didn't seem a sharp for a little while. Then I had a couple of episodes where I lost time. What I mean by that was I was driving the car. The first time I was driving the car. Then I kind of lost two hours. I was at home. Nothing had happened to me, obviously, because
I got home. I just lost two hours. And another time, about two weeks later, I was in the shower and then I was on the bed eating my dinner, and a couple of hours had passed by and I just couldn't remember. The second time was much scarier than the first time. I just thought maybe i'd I don't know, like it was kind of weird just to wait, just to come to somewhere. But I my dad got sick.
I came back to Australia, my dad passed away, and I ended up going having some tests and I saw there was a little bit of damage there in my reactive time and that wasn't as good as sharp as it should have been. And again I just I came back to the audition and the process of learning lines. I just didn't feel as sharp as what I normally. That's what how I knew saying was going on. I just wasn't as confident. Yeah, that was a bit of a worry. Then I had a couple more episodes middle
of last year. Fainted a couple of times. One of those was like a heart attack. I had a different lay to put in.
I just.
And the reason I had that put in not the reason. But I was as soon as I said, look, you know, we we think you should have a defibrillator. My ex partner Shane, who I've spoken about a lot of this thing. He passed away. He had a heart attack last year and we spoke. But he had a condition he had, he had a heart and I said to the doctor, would he have been okay if it had something like this, he would have stood a chance. And I said, I just put it in them, mate, just like that, don't
get it done. So. But I've also been diagnosed with with I fainted a couple of times. I trained a couple of times. That's how this thing. I fainted a couple of times, and they were hard things. They won't just me fainting situation with my heart. I ended up in hospital having a whole load of testing and I but I kept losing time. I had a couple of more episodes of losing time and that's They put that down to epilepsy, which is fine, like it's but I've
now found the right ballance of my medication. And I'm good, like what I say, I'm good. I don't drive anymore anymore. But that's my memory.
And this is a byproduct.
You think from the I have like that that they can't be sure any of this stuff. I am absolutely myself. I am absolutely sure it is. I'm still you know, like I said about my memory and that I do a lot of cognitive training and that that type of thing. And I don't know if it's if it's purely placebo thing, but I always feel better about myself staying on ye brain training, about staying on top of lake and even doing the auditions and that stuff. I like to do
them now even though I'm not. I just like, I just feel like I'm doing something about it. I'm fully open to like, you know, like I'm not. I don't feel regretful about playing foot or anything like that. Just this is just the situation. I think we need to talk about it. I do think there needs to be a conversation about mate.
You do you think the league of getting it right or can they be there's an awareness now on the concussion injury and bringing the player off And do you think they're finding.
They've started that they've started. I mean, I think there's that there probably need to be more real changes at some point that the head area does have to be protected at all costs, you know, like because there are complications, you know, like that's the truth of it. You know, it's a price price you pay. Yeah, And I don't know what the answer is, I mean, I love rugby legs. It's like boxing, you know, like.
I can't I love boxing logic.
I mean, you get points for hitting someone in the head, for knocking someone out. The idea is, you know, hopefully you knock something that's not a good thing, you know, like it's quite yeah, literally not a good.
And the trouble is, as you said, there's twenty. You never think you're going to make sixty, so you're not really worried about it.
You're not going to make sixty. You never think you're going to be sixty. It's just like that's never going to happen, you know. I mean it's not that I'm like that's that's I'm never going to get old. Yeah, But I mean I'm in a good spot. I do think, you know, I feel like I'm comfortable in myself. I think I you know, like the last the last few months of my life, I've felt like I'm in a
really good spot. Now I'm really grateful. I feel like I don't it soundstcky, but I do feel like incredibly fortunate, grateful for you know, I have a wonderful relationship. I keep saying, like with my with my mom, and my brother and sister and the close friends. I feel like I have a really good family in it. Dan, fantastic.
I just I'm just really grateful. I just and and what you said before, I sometimes you know, you hit the expression expression and pitching and I've been so lucky, like the creative but like like I do, like I have had so many experiences like peaks and valles, peaks and valleys, peaks and valleys, and there's still peaks and valleys and when you hit the valleys everything things that
the cave. But like I found, as I've gotten older, you kind of realize, I just time, time seems to stretch, like you know, like it's just like you can be really in a really dark place. Just give it time, your things will and you kind of accept this is what I've got to go through to get to get better. I've got to process or whatever it is, the sadness or whatever it is. Yep, I've just got to sit with it and process it.
It makes sense to me. I always look at the life that there's going to be the layer points. And if you think you're going to go through life without a lay point, you haven't really lived a life. You're going to have your eyes, You're going to have your layers.
But yeah, everything moves on, like everything like everything moves on.
Well, you look like you're in a good space. You've got a good energy and I think you know in all what you've done and the burden that you've carried, and it was a burden and dismiss it now, but coming out in rugby league at the time that you did that was a burden, that was a responsibility. But I think you've made the world a better place for people who they are following you.
I've been very fortunate. Thank you.
Yeah, well, I've loved having you on Eye Catch Killers. It's been a great chat and good old Johnny's brought more people together.
Is a champion, Yeah, absolutely champion.
Yeah, all the best for the future and endeavors.
I'll keep you, I keep you up to speed with the dog out on that.
Yeah. Well, I think that it's an important, important story to be told and yeah, very powerful, powerful story. But thanks so much. H