The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective sy aside of life the average person is never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world. In part two of my chat with former bikey Owen Turnbull, we get into the heavy stuff about being a biking There is a price to pay, and Owen talks about
that price. He talks about how his home was firebombed and the time he shot in his home not once but twice, going to prison and deciding this is not the life for him. We also talk about what he is hoping to achieve by educating young men about the pitfalls of going down the path he did. Oh and turnbull, Welcome back to Part two.
Can you thank you?
I catch killers? Okay, it's a pleasure. We talked a little bit about the chaos of your life and how you end up in Bikis and the rebels and the nomads, and your role as sergeant at arms. That bought a bit of heat heat down on you. That lifestyle what I want to talk about now, because it's pretty Yeah, I won't even say current because it seems to go on all the time, but drive by shootings that happened, that happen on a regular basis, and part of the
gang war. We talked in part one how they can be just over some minor.
Little social media post.
Yeah, something as simple as that. Sometimes there's not an underlying major reason for it. That just people make stupid decisions. But I got to say, from my observation, I think most people when they look at look at drive by shootings, it's cow this isn't it. Yeah, Like it doesn't take a tough guy to drive past the place and spray some bullets.
Bullets in there, fortunately in my Okay, So they got out of the car and did.
It Yeah, Well, let's I want to talk in detail because there's not many people that have had their houses shot up and set a light. So break it down. When was the first time your place was.
Fire and you were shot in March a little bit about ten thirty at night?
Okay? And what what was your position in the Club of the Nomads.
Yeah, unfortunately like the other club that will be with new where I was because I was friends with them at one point.
So and who are you living there with?
Your dad? Was doing there? Okay?
Yeah? And so what you're You're at home.
At home mum and Daddy's house. Yeah, Mum was away at the time. And what happened, well about ten thirty at night watching the movie and he's a big, big wolf, like a big something that what the fuck was that? I look at me window and there's these big flames coming over the house. Think, oh fuck you. You go ran outside to get around open the door, and there was that young fella carver on the short little feller
and he's the little four ten pointed at me. I'm like, go on there and door can't and then he did it.
So we're talking at fourteen.
Yeah, with bird shot though, So it's nothing crazy, but still hurt. It was just like the photo, like you could see like it was just burning.
Okay, so people down and understand guns like a shotgun so when it goes off at sprays, but the size of the pellets make a difference in terms of the damage.
Yes, I wasn't like before, like a buck shot. It was like a bird shot, which is like you wouldn't like tiny little pelts.
Yeah, but you wouldn't know.
I was fucking freaking.
I was, Oh fuck, So someone's got a shotgun pointed at you. Yere saw and off.
Yeah, it was a shortened fourteen years so he made themselves.
You you've opened the door ten thirty at night? Yeah, what movie were you watching?
Watching Did John? I love that movie and I love the Notebook and that too. I love that stuff. Jesus, Yeah, it was just did John? I remember that? Yeah?
Okay, well that that's something that we didn't expect. When this is tough, hard Asspikey's placed up and came with his dad watching Did John?
Was missus and.
Okay, yeah, okay, watching I'm thinking that's that's getting out hit. We shouldn't laugh, yeah, but we are laughing. So your flames going above your house. So Molotov cocktail or something it was.
It opened up my missus car fuel thing poured like a rag lit it up bomb. That's the thing blew up and then accord on to my car buck and it's come all along the front verandas and the all the smoke damage on top the house get on fire. So they've got me fucking trying to put out the flames.
So you'd you've jumped out of the bed, you've come out, You run out as you would when you hear something like that. Did you think instantaneously it's a gang related like it's.
I knew it was about Okay, I was warned beforehand it was going to happen, but because I thought this kid was a blow ass all talk and I think that whatever, but don't happen.
You've come you've come out, you run out, and your underpants and come out, and there's a bloke there with balaclav on and the shotgun point of that.
Yeah, and I said, I said the thirst thing I said was go and do it. Then can't And then he did it. So I was in displief, was like, what the fuck.
Do you regret saying go and do it then.
Oh maybe more so if it was like a bugshot, it'll probably be dead. Well, you would be dead.
You would would be dead. You would be dead. But the point I'm trying to mate you didn't know that.
Was too much, Adoline. I was think of just trying to save the house.
Okay? Is that so that's just part of the persona being the bike at the time. Fuck you are you going to do it? If you've got the ball?
Yeah, people don't. That's why I was. I always thought of a knife and all that. It's more personal. I'd rather run away from someone with a knife than a gun.
Okay, So when he let the shot off, regardless of whether it's buckshot, it would have made the hell of a noise.
Felt that then you would kind of pushing back a tiny bit, even though the pellets were like tiny dis believe, what the fuck? But then he ran and all my next thought was just like to put out the fire. Where were you shot in the guts?
Okay? And did you did you think like quite often when people are shot, they don't even realize they've been shot.
Did you think I didn't feel it until like a minute or two later. I knew what happened, but I didn't feel like that was just started burning. I feel like someone was stabbing me with cigarettes. Fucking agony. But a lot of the pellets fell out straight away, like the one or two that were there was just sizzling burning in the skin. Yeah.
When when you were shot with the buckshot did you did you have to go to the hospital.
Yeah, but I didn't go till like a day or two later to get the last two pellets out.
We're just playing hard ass biking.
Doesn't talk 'spicially what I was doing. Yeah, they didn't know.
Sorry, I shouldn't laugh at someone.
That's it is. It's funny.
It's a crazy, crazy world. So the cops would have turned up.
Cops could turn up within like two minutes and crazy.
They would have said, do you know what's going? They would have known. Yeah, did you follow them?
Yeah? Yeah, I didn't say nothing to him because I don't know what happened, you know what I mean? Then went out to stay there because all the smoke damage and stuff too, So I stayed another maid of mines. Yeah, you poor dad fucking stayed there still.
Yeah, how did that make you feel like you had your lady in bed with a piece of ship.
It's like a fucking car's gone. Let pay for a new car. Your fucking dad's gonna be like fuck. But did you have a bit of trouble from it? So it was more to so like fuck it. Hell, I was just more upset about what I put the other people through them myself.
Yeah, well that's people should look at that, because it's all right when you're on your own, Bravardo will fuck you pull the trigger. But people, innocent people could have got you once a place starts going up in flames or whatever happened. So what was what was the end result that hit the media? And did all through the media, please keep coming back at you, going what's going on? We can't protect you if you don't talk to us, that type of stuff.
It was all through the media, and then tried to keep it hidden from you, mum, like I was saying. And then yeah, fucker's big up about that. She need lost a job after that first one.
So with that, you've been in the gang. What was the consequences of that was?
And I obviously had to hit back and we did. That was in the news to you.
Did has that all been resolved through the courts or or just any one of them.
The four boy young kids that the fellas that did mine all snitched on each other. Right, So, and I was in there at the time when the one who shot me come in and he didn't come to the mains. He was he went to protection, got bashed.
Are you you were in prison?
Ended up coming in. Yeah, he got for that. He got bashed, did come the mains, preture, got bashed like broken jaw, and he got sent to strict protection, which is like for rapists and pedals and stuff. He was down there, he was too scared to come on the mains.
Yeah, and that that was that was part of the gang payback.
Yeah. And they all rolled on each other after doing that to my house. Yeah.
Well yeah, as we said, I don't think it takes much courage fire.
Shots, say I reckon. It's a lot of easy to pull a trigger, that is, to stab someone, most definitely. Okay, So that that was the first time, what was the first one, and a lot of tip for tat we're going at them back at us. And the second time it happened to.
And I don't want to spark off more more conflict, but that was just rivalry between.
It was basically people that weren't even like really part of the drama and the beef. We're getting involved, getting touched up and stuff for it all because.
There was a lot going on in Camber at the time.
It was not huge, always in the news, always in the news. And then the second time would happened, it was fucking they come in. They had more way more heavy artillery. So like I didn't answer the door, I didn't have time to answer the door. I heard another big wolf.
How long after the first one.
It would have been about a month. So I had fixed all the house up, painted all the front, the front, like everything like that. I got it all cleaned up, paid all the money, and that happens again, and I'm thinking, of fox sake, I'm over this shit. It's like I heard another big wolf at night, like a big boom, and then I walked out. There's even more stuff on
fire than the fucking last time. And I didn't realize that the guns they used one was there was like a forty five and a nine mill and they fucking found one of the bullets, like traveled through my parents' room, through their bathroom, through the family room into my bathroom at the end of the house like a cupboard. Sorry, just before the bathroom enlidged in a fucking one of my old photo albums. So if anyone was in that fuck that's when I went outside. All the cops were
there within fucking minutes. It's world how that happens. How they're there within minutes, And I detective goes, mister Turble, someone could have been fucking murdered.
Look what are you doing?
And look what are your calls? And I think, fuck, you know what I mean. But I'm thinking, like they did, the trajectory of the bullet and my dad in bed and my mom, and they said if my mom was in the bed at the time, she would have been hit, And I'm thinking it more than likely would have died. You know, you don't know. I wouldn't want to take that chance.
When your second attack, when it was fire bombed, you said there was more damage. What was it? What was done to it?
This time? There was way more smoke damage that came all in through the house. Yeah, Like the whole ceilings were all black, the every all the bushes and trees out the front all gone, burnt, burnt, to a crisp the wood like the concrete porch, and then you got there, like the wood, I don't know what they're holding up the thing all burnt, like just hanging by a thread, like the front of the roof was hanging down.
Seems like the whole place could have burnt.
Oh yeah, they had There was a couple of joy cans, and they had the gas barbecue gas things what they called, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, Like obviously they didn't understand like there was it was still smoke and shooting out of flame and I'm grabbing that tron. The gas bottles, Yeah, gas bottles. They didn't They didn't explode though.
To me that yeah, if I was looking at it from a homicide to take this point of view, that that's a real intent to do some serious damage.
To gas bottles. Yeah, then it didn't explode though. They'll turned on obviously because you see the fucking fire pissing out of the top.
They wanted to wanted to keep you.
That would have done some damage. And then there's two Jerry cans, then the high powered Yeah, whether they chuck forty five bullets into a nine moments, I don't know.
How many? How many thoughts were shot?
Five? It's not a full kip or anything, but.
Yeah, crazy crazy times. Okay, breaking it down a couple of things. Observations I make from that. They've had to go at you the first time? Yeah, get it didn't get you. They're going to do it properly this time. Yeah, come back with more pistols. Yeah, So how did that de escalate? Because that's just building up? Like, what were you thinking? Like, I'm thinking, if someone's trying to kill me, back at them? What was going through your mind?
I was going to fucking getting back at them, but then I got locked up? Yeah?
Is that a good thing in hindsight?
Yeah, I'd say so fucking I'd prefer to be in jail for a short stint than I would for maybe possibly shooting someone, hitting them and stuff.
Yeah, So what's your take on all these drive by shootings? You think there is as cowardly as what's gone on with your place.
I think drive wat shings it's always like you, I don't think the intent is to ever hit someone, but sometimes you can, and then your intent isn't there to hit them, and then you're just this young kid like then told to do something, want to look tough, shoot up some bricks school and then you've accidentally shot someone through a window, and then your whole life's fucked and what have you thrown it away for nothing? Just looked tough, so cool, you're tougher than me, I was tougher than you,
or stuff like that. You know what I mean. It's pretty fucking silly in my opinion.
I'm glad. I'm glad that's that's your opinion. But how did you feel about yourself? But because you potentially yeah, put your people that you're loving.
Oh yeah, I was minding give a fuck about myself at that time. I was just more upset about me, fucking like me, possibly you mum getting hurt like he's she was away on deployment or something like that. Otherwise, like fun, I won't be able to live myself. We devastated. We fucking imagine that you haven't seen mother because you want to be a tough boy in a gang. Yeah, so you fucking you go and tip tap being tough, who's who's tougher? I'm tougher than you, because you know
what I mean? And then your mum's getten shot and possibly killed for what because you fucking want to be tougher over social media or something like that.
So how did you how did you break away from the game?
Slowly started like thinking. I was like, wait, that was a wake up call. It was like the fuck you know, I'm practically leaving and like these kinds don't give a fuck, like they didn't care.
So the shootings were after you before before before.
Yeah, something like they don't even give a fuck about me, you know what I mean. Like it's awkward to be right, brother, you know what I mean, You're going to pay more money to fix this or stuff like that, and I think I'm gonna quietly leave, you know what i mean. Gave him war me club gears. I'm going on a break.
You quit when you're inside? Yeah, okay, and what's the process it? I would type up a resignation.
All five of us left in jail.
Left you just made it clear we're.
Not we're done with you. So yeah, just like now we had enough and like just being Yeah.
Is there any any consequences of walking out like the.
Way you did? No, not for me, No, yeah, because of the position, like the normally position you leave.
You're still writing I've ridden.
In years, probably since before even prison was.
That part of the attraction in the in the bikis when you're all you go on the annual runs.
And you look cool, you think you do, but like a lot of time people are just like fuck with you. It's like he's got all these we just call my country bikes. They'd be like late fifties fucking walking around in club gear and stuff, and I think they're the toughest, all the baddest guys. And you get like young guns like me, you just be like looking at it like you're a fucking loser, you know.
Yeah, So you get you get out of prison, What did you do?
I went and got pizza because I was already set. I was I got up early, freshened up. When I got out, I was fucking lean because I was a training every day. I was eating right in prison, tuna rice. There's no breeds in there, you know what I mean. Went got a pizza, and then the day after that is when I went and booked myself in for COT to start.
So you walked out with all the intent I'm not going back in the gates, Shah.
I went got a pizza because I had pizza in years, and then then the day after that, I signed up for the start of the semester in the February, but I got out in the late October, so a couple of months. But between then and starting school, I was working for my mate. So I got out and started work within two days as well. So I want to keep active because I had a great routine in prison, but it's hard to keep that same routine when you get out.
As in the Staying Fit.
Safe, I'd get up at a certain time, get up, go to a bed at ten, get up a train, and then when you get out, like you can do it for a bit, and then life gets gets in the way, you know what I mean.
Well, that's part of being institutionalized too, isn't it. You're getting that regiment.
Yeah, yeah, I genuinely loved it, okay, because there's like up train, eat bed, you can you could, you can try and do it out here.
It was too hard, too many complications when you're out in the real wars.
When I got out as well, stopped like the lights with my mate, pressed the button and we went. He went to walk a christ and he's like, what are you doing? I was like, I was waiting to get told to go.
Right, So that's another impact.
I was waiting the lights and he's like, what are you doing?
Hurry up?
I'm like what, oh ship, I was waiting to get told to go.
I was like, fuck, that's another impact. You do just get conditioned to Yeah, being told what to do, when to do, and.
How to do it. I was like, because there's no way that's gonna happened to me, you know what I mean? It only last couple of weeks though for me it did. But the humans are adaptable. But you get in that environment, you do become compliant because waiting to get told to go through a door or walk forward backwards.
Yeah, so you get you get out of prison, what's your what's your your plans? You said you did those courses.
My thing was gonna like full go to school, work with the youth, or work like a youth justice center or something like that. So the only reason I got parole was because one of my best mates put up that I could sleep on his food on. So I slept on a food toon for like a year. Because I couldn't be with my parents or anyone. I didn't have anywhere else to stay. So my mate, one of my best mates, Wade, put it up for me that I could stay with him for a bit, let me
live there rent free. I worked freem with the tattoo shop while I was going to school, so I was getting paid like money every week and going to school. So I did all the practice, like the assessments that it was over two semesters, so two terms and three and four, passed them all, did all the group ones. And then when it comes to the workplace when I wasn't able to do it because I couldn't get a work in all a person's card, It's like the fuck, you know what I mean, like give me a chance.
At least did that sort of set back because I hear a lot of the blakes.
Yeah, I kind of fell back into like just drinking a bit more and s somethimes like what the fuck am I doing? You know what I mean? Nothing else, It's like cool. I tried my artists and then they just told me to funk off basically, you know what I mean, but like doing the course't me like like a funk with anything about like you got these They had no idea that I've been to prison or who
I was or didn't know that. God didn't say nothing, and they talked about, oh, talk about this is what happens in prison, and this is what you got to do, and this you know, this is blah blah. I'm thinking, you can't. You fuckings have no idea about anything. You've fucking seen this stuff on a TV show. We've read watching too many fucking fake YouTube videos or some shit you got. That's not how it happens at all, or
how anything goes down in there. I think, would you rather talk to me the guy, the kid who's been there and been through it, done it, or and wants to change, or someone that's never touched drugs in their life or has not lived any gang through outlaw lifestyle telling you what you should be doing, you know what I mean. So I got I was very rather resentful of it, like I'm trying. I'm trying here, and you don't give me anything with that.
And I understand what you're saying, and I agree with your wholeheartedly. I think lived experience coming to young blokes, they sort of there is open up and they actually actually listen. But I've seen a lot of blokes that have had you tried to go on the straight and narrow had had that set back in what they've formed, And you're describing what happened to you, what kept you on the straight and narrow still bothered in the right direction? What was the turning?
Fucking mum was like you saw something because I was like falling back into some stupid shit, you know, yeah, I was just like, fucking I've actually tried here, like you know what I mean, I've write and doing assignment's coursework, which I've never done, you know what I mean. And then it's like, fuck, you can't do this. I was like, fuck, what do I do? You know what I mean? Because well, so then I started caring for me grandmother for like
two years. So I cared for her and looked after her for two years, and then she passed away and then I was like, fun, what I'm gonna do now. It's like it's kind of after COVID or during COVID, remember happened and the big thing in COVID was like sports cards and Pokemon cards. You told me stuff talk because I'm not quite thinking fuck, you know what I mean, Like I don't I can't go to school. I kind of get a work in a vulnerable person's card. So
I'll try and make a job out of this. I had some old sports cards, like graded cards like Lebron James Rookie, Stephen Curry Rookie, old Pokemon cards from when I was a kid. I used to collect them before I was a big bad biking You know what I mean.
You said you're in the Yeah.
I used to play video games, fucking Warcraft all that ship and I love it. But then if I say now to be from the mud, to get dirty, you know what I mean. But I was doing all that. Then the Pokemon cards, I think I've seen like these influences and stuff. They're selling these Pokemon cards for hundreds of thousands and sports cards for ten twenty thirty thousand. Fuck, I might have something here. So I hug my opened a business. I opened a business account, got my name
all registered and stuff like that. I saw my first card, Yeah, for sixteen thousand dollars. It was a Lebron James Rookie card. So that's from then on. I've just been it's been about three years now. I've been doing this beautiful and then I happened to get the NURL job. During the whole time. So how did how well?
First of all, how does it feel like earning an honest living?
It's good, Like that's like I'm saying, like bagging thegit money. I got to pay tax for the first time in life. That figured out how to do that. Yeah, And then like they still I was making all this money, like they thought I was sending texts to people I've got Canada and stuff like that. It's like, yeah, I want you want this one, bro or this one. And the cops had my phone buked. We've got rated once since I've got out, and they thinking was they thought it
was like talk for drugs. This is like a legitimate Pokemon guardian. There's like a Charis or a picture or a Lebron James or something. So there's no code here. They hit me and raided me. The first time I've been raided. I was like a relief or whatever. I go for it. They didn't get no, they took a lot of ship, but I got everything back, Like even my one of my best mates, who I meant Afro got out of prisony brot me a role X for my birthday, got that back, got everything back the first
time I've been raided and hadn't been locked up. We'll let go. It's the best feelin ever winner. Literally, I was like, thank god. I was like, it's like you fuckers, you know what I mean. I was like, you're intel must be horrible. Well you think I'm talking about drugs, I'm talking about basketball. Okay, Well in defense of the cops.
So I was after a group of contract killers that used Telly tubbies really as that was. They called each other by Telly Tubby names. But anyway, okay, So you're paying the taxes, you've been raided, and you're for the first time you've been raided, and you've been in the right, and you've got up and you got all the got the all stuff stuff bad.
Didn't get locked up, got everything back? Yeah. Good.
The NRL, how you doing talks with and what we're talking about here is you doing talks with the junior teams in the NR clubs?
That gang exit thing with Dom from Queensland. He's been amazing and it's helped me with so much. Give opportunities.
He's in the in the cops and he's he's seen the potential that you've got for you can get across.
I've got to him with that Ben Gappert who's ex Hells Angel and that other fellow from the Titans.
How did you feel when they asked you to do that?
It was I was like, I'm a dog their deadlocks. They got some other guy and who's recording mate? You're just telling your story from your point of view and how it happened, Like you're not telling anyone, Okay, I see them all like that. So yeah, this is from there. I just tell my story. It's come out, and yeah, it took a couple of years for it to come out.
What's the purpose of what do they want to do with those videos? Get them out to.
Just the youth trying just like it's not worth it joining you know what I mean, got a lot to live for. Yeah, there's more to life and I mean biking well it's not struggling.
It's a good lesson for everyone, not just Bikey's like any gangs, like for your life are away as a young fella. So it's a powerful message. So there was a bit of reluctance on your behalf because and misguided because you're not you're not being a dog or an informant, but you're just saying, well, everyone.
Fucking has their own opinions. You always guys are dog always this. It's like you're idea.
Yeah, well look, I've had blokes on plenty of x EX members on the podcast, and.
You're people talking shit that have no idea about that life or anything. Yeah.
Yeah, and yeah, there's always a bit of a fray back that what are you doing speaking to a next cop? But I think the point is you're just informing people this is this is what happens in the world.
You've got a dog just talked to a cop, you know what I mean? That's a thing in jail, you call someone a dog. You've got to produce that paperwork or you're getting your fucking head keeved in. Yeah, there's there's nothing like jail. Rules are different, but like, there's no thing out here like that. People the repercussions of saying that.
So, after you did the video and you saw it go out there, how did you how did you feel?
I haven't watched it. I can't hate my voice. I watched I watch a couple of them, but yeah, after a while, watched that. But yeah, it's kind of weird watching that ship for me.
It was a powerful for you.
Yeah, I just I was watching myself talk and stuff, you know, just be weird.
For me, it's confronting. I'm still fine the same thing doing doing this stuff.
Loved it though, like mats and ship. So it was awesome. That's the point, I guess.
And and people within the gangs respected you for what you're doing.
Yeah, they have nothing to say about it. Cool, I Woulder said. Anyway, so I'm to do my own thing, you know what I mean, more than by any fucking bikey rules or anything. I'm a normal citizen. Yeah, an outlaw.
Yeah, well you're paying taxes. Yeah that's a pain.
But anyway, it's the worst.
The n r L.
So how did you How Dom asked me to do another talk, which was in Melbourne in front of it like American DA agents. I don't know, I don't know what it's for, but they wanted, like an ex bike you come and talk his life. So I talked about my upbringing and how I went from like potential first grader to becoming a biking and all that kind of stuff. And we've got to chat and after my talk and connected from there, and that's how I got the gig,
like literally just right place, right time, by chance. Because at one point I was going to tell Dom I didn't want to go, so lucky I said, Lucky, I just fucking just sucked it up and went.
And what was your reluctant s You just didn't want to speaking public?
Yeah, I don't really like it that much, but once I get into it, I'm sweet. Like as long as you're like you make him laugh and you get you know what I mean, they get a bit just comfy, but yourself. Yeah, yeah, But I was like, I'm happy I did it because if I didn't do it, it's like a lot of things in my life. I just lucky I just did it. Otherwise wouldn't have got a lot of opportunities.
So you spoke down there, you must have left an impression. Then you got invited to speak to NRL class. Tell us about what message?
And you're ringing?
Who's your all? That?
Like the junior is like a lot of the boys have just got their first contracts, Like what what like what to watch out for? Like don't get used, watch be cautious. Who's hanging around hanging around with taking photos, with uploading on social media? Like just like basically stuff that or what I went through as younger youngers, like staying away from the bio keys and stuff like that.
And how when you say used, how young footballers used once they start to get a profile or will eventually get a profile.
Money, So it's easy to make money off of you know what I mean. Yes, someone's on two hundred k fifty k year, they can they can afford a couple of balls a week cocaine, you know what I mean? Free money?
And do you talk about your your drug side of things that stuffed up your your.
Chances of Yeah, I didn't even judge alcoholtel sixteen yeah, and then off the rails the MDMA pills.
Do you think they're listening to the young blokes.
Like when you're younger, you like look at someone like the fuck up? You know, you're all full of ship. I was like, I said that to be it's not thinking I'm full of shit. You know, I've been in your shoes. I've both sat where you are and I thought the same thing. And then a couple of bulldogs unions come to me after we actually googled you, you know what I mean. So I sat and chatted with them for about an hour, two hours, eleven o'clock at night.
This was a two day thing, the rookie camp. But yeah, it's good, I.
Say, yeah, they're the rookie camp and the media training and what of the type of things they're asking you when they come up and talked to you.
I think they like it. They're like me because it's I'm just like laid back and just got a question. I'll answer it. Nothing to hide, like one of the boys, you know what I mean. But you get a lot of these talkers that are real stuck up or pretentious, like I'm better than you because I've done this, I'll turn my life friends.
Yeah, death by powerpoints, Yeah, something like that.
You have to lecturing. Lecturing, Yeah, lecturing. They fucking hate that.
So you think it's having having an impact.
On Yeah, yes and no. I guess I don't know. I'd say yeah, but it was to say no because like young kids are money, gonna do what they want anyway. And then you know, it's like me, I didn't realize the causing my actions and all the repercussions until I got older and looking back as like, fuck, I should have done a lot of things differently.
But if you can. You can just change one life that's worth well, you think.
It's like there's like one of the young fellows, the Young Boys in their mission on Instagram every now and then talks's from Melbourne.
Good kid, one of the young guys.
Yeah, good kids. Families associated with his brothers and he's not what do I do? You know what I mean? It's like, you can't pick your family. As long as you're honest with the club and stuff. It's like, you're not gonna get in trouble, you know what I mean. It's your fault that your family members in that part of life, Like, nah, you're not gonna get in trouble. So he talks to me every now and then stuff still talk to me and I don't work anymore for the in all things.
So yeah, it's good that that's worth and that that I can imagine the advice because they would be their kids are intimidating, they're dealing with bikeies.
What am I going to do?
But if you and that's a way of navigating their way through it, just be honest with the bikes and us.
With the club too. But like your own your football club, you're not gonna get in trouble for saying the unit, but it's the better thing that you're telling them ahead of time if anything happens anyway. Yeah, yeah, it looks like your fault that someone else is in a bike club.
So reflecting that back on your life, do you feel how do you feel about the crimes that you committed? Do you do you regret it?
Yeah? I do, because there's like a lot of times where you do things in public and they'd be like a young young little boy or young girl. They're just chilling with their family or something and they've watched it happen or go down in public, because you'd know, in something in public, it just like that just switches as on like that then got people get in the way, you know, I feel about it. That's your little kids and that watching.
That's I'm glad you said that. I hadn't really thought about it from that that point inter view. But yeah, the impact and everyone seen bikey's inflict violence in public terrifies.
People, especially on the bandidos. And was it the Broadbeach one? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was a big one.
Yeah, that was well everyone for everyone, Well, I think, and I've said it on the podcast quite quite a bit, but the airport with the Commonero's and Hell's Angels that I was in gang squad at that point in time, and that's when enough is enough. That's when they brought the heat down on them, every member across the country because because of that. Okay, what do you think I'm asking asking you here? What would you say to a young blake that's about to you? Personally? You've given us
the story. But if some young blake came up for you and said, I'm I'm going to join the gangs, I don't give a fuck what you think. What what's your response to im?
Just just a little the ship that I went through and I put my parents in that three hours? Like you really want to go through all that? You know? I mean I lost great girlfriends, great friends, all because of my associations with the bikes or because of what happened to them like car blown up? It's like how do you repair that? And they're going to be like you had to say this, Look, do you really want
to go through everything that I did? I will potentially go through everything that I did and had to deal with, mate, you know what I mean? Like, imagine my mom had got hit and killed. Have to live with that for the rest of my life. No, No, that's what I was saying in prisons. I can't. I will never go back because if I ever go back and then my mom passes away while I'm in there, I would fucking be the worst thing, you know, and I wouldn't be able to live with it. It's like, are you able
to live with all these consequences from your actions? Like imagine you're in jail, your grandmother, your love passes away, and you got to you got to ask permission to go to a funeral, and then you get the permission that you can't where suit You're still gonna be in a jumpsuit, handcuffed with two screws either side, like you had to live with all that kinds of shit.
Good messaging. What do you love the mate so you prepared to hurt them? Because that's basically what you.
And you don't realize all of the time how much you do genuinely love your parents or your things till something happens to them and you're like fuck and you can't fix that.
What about the pathways out of prison? I've spoken with a lot of blokes that have been inside blakes and women that have been inside. How difficult it is to go on the straight and narrow. You said earlier on in either part one or this part that you had good people around you. How much difference did that make?
I was lucky. I had a good support network of good friends who are very straight and eighty family as much as they could help. But like, it was mostly just really good friends or people that I was friends with before I was a biking. You know what I mean.
Have you reconnected with those people?
Yeah? Everyone? All my good mates who visit me in prison once, I'm still very close with now. Yeah. Like I said, I didn't go to see a lot of the people. The people when they get out of prison, they want to be your friend. So I didn't go to jail to make friends, man, you know what I mean. And then and I also said, as soon as got out of prison, I didn't want to make any new friends. I've got almost good friends here and that's how I've always been since.
Well, the quality of people are the ones when you're in the ship that stand up for you.
Yeah. Back especially, I wouldn't have been wouldn't even got parole. Wasn't for that good made of mine, let him let me sleep on his foot on for a year and giving me a job, you know what I mean, So just help me get back on my feet. Yeah, yeah, that's like the good quard your mates, you know what I mean?
What about in prison? There is there anything that you made a decision? Is there anything more they can do in prison to get people to wake up or is it there's nothing that's complicated.
It's they say they do, but it's like, you do these courses in prison, but they don't have They don't help you when you get out unless you're doing like a UNI degree for like you're there for ten years, you're doing like a barbership course or a barbers like a barber course or whatever. Like there's nothing in there
when I was in there. Now at the AMC, they've got PlayStation xboxes, inter the switches and stuff, which I reckon is a good thing and keeps the boys occupied in their minds elsewhere from wanting to punch on and stab people or do drugs.
Well, you want you want people that come out of the prison to be able to simulate back in the society. So you've got to give them the skills and they're.
Lucky for me a good support network to do all that. A lot of people don't, you know what I mean, But a lot of people don't want to change either. You know, unless you want it, you're never going to want to do it.
Yeah, Well, some people choose the life and that's the life they want to live. But I'm seeing in New South Wales and I think across the country in some places, they're making difference with the way they're doing prison making making it so you can get the education and preparing you're better for coming out. But when you come out it's not easier either.
Like I was saying, like I didn't even I didn't even need to work in a onetable person's card or any qualifications to do the NROL job. And that's working with young kids or youth and stuff like that as well, you know what I mean. But yeah, I don't even want to go back and do the youth work or anything. It's like fuck is you know? I tried, fucking like genuine like, I've never been one to do assignments or time assignments.
For that and that would be hard starting later.
Even like time to assignments where you've got to send amount of time to complete it, like or each question, it's like I've never done it. I hated schools with a passion.
Yeah, yeah, So what's your what's your future?
Help? I want to I want to travel the world. My mum retires next year. She wants to travel, so I want to go over there and do that with the you know, I'm trying to accommodate my mom over a lot.
Is this the guilt coming out?
What you put put it through? Yeah? I want to make sure she has a good life for the rest of her life. You know what I mean. She wants to travel, so we'll go to travel. We'll do that. So I just put a lot of stuff on hold till then there's a that's I'm saying. I live with the guilt rest of my life. I want to put it through poor mother.
You know, well, I think when Yeah, that's a message that you've got to get across to people that the people that you Yeah, I think, what's your relationship with your brother?
We don't talk at all. I don't think I planned to be like put it this way, like, I want to go outside. I'm so far away from being around drama or causing drama that I didn't even go to my own dad's funeral, you know what I mean? Because I didn't want to. Yeah, me, myer brother. It's like people think, oh he cares about this, or oh you're going to like drama with this or that's like, mate, you mean nothing to me. I didn't even go to my own dad's funeral. You reckon? I care about you,
you know what I mean? Stay away from drama in conflict because I don't want to go back to prison or anything like that.
And you think you're on that path not to not to go back.
Yeah, yeah, I can't do it. If I go back to prison and something happens to me, mam or whatever, I would be living it. Like I was saying before, I think I had a time and more and all the consequences of potential actions.
Now now you can.
Yeah, back then, I wasn't. I was going full steam ahead, like, well, let's do this or that.
That is a big part, isn't it. You don't understand the consequences.
Get older, get older.
You're thinking that this is cool, hanging hanging out with the bikeies, and look what it got you. Yeah, and have you realized if someone's pointing a loaded shotgun that years say, you haven't got the balls to do it.
Hopefully never get that.
Yeah, probably, I don't know, hopefully never.
Yeah, maybe I don't put myself on those sort of particaments anymore situations.
Yeah, well, maybe that.
Ll be a Mexican stand off with like a Pokemon card or something. You know.
Well, I didn't realize there's so much money in the cards.
But anyway, that's I think the most expensive one in the world's five point six million US day. So we got logan Paul has it.
Yeah, well, we cover a lot of topics on like catch killers, but I didn't think.
We don't understand which money was in those things on cards. People understand much money.
Luck Yeah, as in a this is the one and only. Well you've found your niche.
I hope you're luck.
Oh and I hope the future does work out for you. And I appreciate you. You're coming coming on here, and yeah, I hope it works out for you. And give me some tips on those paperpon cards. It comes up and we're playing that. Literally, no one would have to do anything if you sold them for that. That's great.
If you kept him from when I was as I tell my mom all the time. I'm like, where the funk are on my card?
Why did you throw those cards?
Actually throw them out? Sin on a gold one.
Well, I don't know what the title of this podcast when we release it, The nerd who Became a Bike?
That's cool.
Okay, that's a different, different ring on it, but good on you.
And yeah I like that.
All right, interesting tails on my catskills. Thanks for having cheers, cheers,