The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective see a side of life the average persons never exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talked to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world. Welcome to another episode of I Catch Killers. I first heard about today's guest when he was featured in a major international film called A Prayer Before Dawn. The movie just blew me away. How he survived and the fact he's here talk to us today speaks volumes for the
human spirit. Today's guest is certainly no angel. He's made mistakes throughout his life. He's served time in prison in the UK, survived the horror of being incarcerated in two of Thailand's most notorious prisons. He's going to talk to us today about his life and experiences. Takes a lot to shock me these days, but today's guest has a story of survival and redemption and it's hard to comprehend what he's been through. Today's guest is Englishman Billy Moore.
I've been trying to get him on the podcast for a very long time and I'm excited about today. Billy Moore, Welcome to I Catch Killers.
Thank you.
I've been wanting to get you on this podcast for a long time. I first became interested in your story when I saw the movie about your life, A Prayer before Dawn, and I got to say, it really blew me away.
It did me, to be fair, because when it was lad, when it was it was quite surreal.
Yeah, I can imagine that you'd be looking at it and there was some intense stuff there. But did you at any stage surprise you're still here? There must have been times when you think I'm just not going to make it through.
There's plenty of times times when I force I just wanted to give up. Alsorely ended my shelf you know, there was a point when I was in prison in shang Mai and I was on death row because of you know, me be eighty and the consequences had created yesterday movie from normal location. And the only place that adapt me is like the shells on the fifth floor, which were health and exephal and people who were shaven
over to eighty five years. And it was like that would probably be most esperate time in prison.
I could imagine how how low that would think, just take you to prison, because I think this is sort of broad a time, I was doing some prep for the podcast and came across this that this is December two thousand and seven, and this is how you described your first night in chang My prison. I was told to sleep in the far corner, and in the corner was a body that was just lying there with a sheet over his face. Tell us about that.
I remember being in the court not understanding what was getting said to me. But I was taking to gang My Senseral prison at the time, going through these gates, and it was its own experience, you know, in itself. Because the bus was just crammed with people. No one could speak English. I just kept quiet. I had loads of fear and anxiety going on, but I didn't I didn't have I had to show like courage. I didn't
want anyone to share. It was scared. I was masked into this shell after you know, the initially instroductional to you know, the prison rules, you know. On the floor was like it was it was like his saer arms and legs and there was no space on the floor and I was looking around the thing based the beds. It was. It was sort of short. You know, you will next back when I come here. They sleeping on
the floor. You see next to each for there there's no way, there's no sheets, there's no batteries, there's no nun you know, when you're getting directed into the corner of this room, and you know, remember sweeping next to this guy you had the sheet over his face, over his body, you know, and another guy, a lady boy called Stan and he shut in. I was just, you know, is this is this too real? They're going to move
this body or what? And when he asked the lady boy who spoke to me here broken English, you went, it's okay, no problems, you know, say bank Holody will move them on Monday.
Yeah, I can, I can understand. I right. I raise that first up because I think if people want to understand that world that you found yourself in, that was such a stark example of it that they are you sleeping beside the dead body for a couple of days. Welcome to Thailand prison. Let's talk about your your life the start, because there's always a beckstory. You don't just wake up one day and find yourself in a type prison. But where were you born? In Liverpool?
Yeah? Yeah?
What was here? What was your childhood like?
It was one of the feeling really source of a loan, even though there was I was in a big family. There was Shakespeare's and I was the oldest and five younger hivens be sad. He was drinking alcohol every single day. My mum was waking every hour. God send you know the time, pay the bills. You know. It was very volatile and violence, and it was just full of feeling. All he ever wanted to do was be acknowledged by me, dad,
because he was my hero. He was me, your own model you no matter what it did, you know, I never got any any attention. I didn't feel there was any acceptance. I didn't understand, you know, the concept of love and intimacy. The only sam we ever felt any intimacy was when my mom used to put the nick going through our hair and the su the evening before stew on a Monday. So I was quite quite lonely and isolated. I went with Skew, very insecure, so I didn't speak what I found myself in a lot of
trouble and I didn't understand why. I think it was getting a tension then all the wrong places, especially in Skew. You know, I was getting back. Then we got the cane, We got whacked with stick by the seasies, you know. And it was for me that was on a regular basis. So I was getting I was getting beat up and stew by the seas and then I was rolling home and I was getting the beats up at home backside, and then on the way home, I was getting beat
up by kids, you know, bullies. And he often laid take no wonder did these contributing fastest that led to me just like calligating and reacting, and he scathed them, you know, through drug use.
When you talk about a start like that, billy like its uh yeah, you are a product of your environment and whether we like it, like it or not, we carry a lot of ship from our childhood and it carries it carries through our life in the way you describe that when you're looking for love, you're looking for recognition, you're not getting it. You're seeing violence. Your old man's hitting, hitting the grog and you know it sounds like a
violent type of type of character as a kid. They're your formative years, no wonder you feel, feel confused, and you look back and I have a lot of blakes on this podcast, and I know a lot of people friends that you have gone off track and you look back at their childhood and you think, jeez, how how would have I gone if that was my upbringing? So it takes a judgment out of it, but it does shape your those formative years, does shape the direction your head off in life, don't they?
Yeah?
In all.
In all, honestly, when I was the younger, I just want us to be different from me, Dad, because you know, from a lot of division. You know, I see me Mum's certifire, to see them smashing the elk shore. You know, we were getting leasim attacked, just unpretectable. That was that
was the worst. You know when Lee, you know, we'd walk up and down behind you and he'd hated band in the corner with your hands on your head, m and you just be waiting for that smart And it wasn't the fact that I wasn't I didn't any fade the post. It was when it was going to happen, you know what I mean, like just do it? You know what I mean, it's you know that was It was just horrible feeling and by emotionally breaking zan every
nice go to bed. And I felt to myself, you know, if it's in a boxing club, it could be that claim to be a boxer. I've never seen him actually no box unless it was all me or my family, will me mom befourse he'd acknowledged me so during the boxing club, and I wanted to be in the army show. It was in the the kid Jetts. It wasn't on the calf to go down the path of like crime and addiction. That wasn't a SHAWNA wanted. It wasn't planing batter.
From from what I'm taking taking from that, even with that environment, you still had aspirations to make something of yourself, whether that was getting respect and acceptance through boxing or or joining the army and being part of the tribe people that you felt part of a group.
What that was the problem. That was the problem that he made because I was suffering from an early age, you know, from all the abuse, the physical abuse. That talked with me to who have the environments for western But when I was in the ca death, you know, I was like a target for people because of the way I acted, you know, so I wasn't fitting in there.
You know.
The only place that did really fit in with the box shol because it was it was a solace the board. It wasn't a team kind of game. You went playing football and others as to get the ball pass to you or you know, it was like you have to face and you have to win, and if you lost, it was because you didn't saying, you know that capture show I felt better doing that.
I understand what you're saying, they Billy, and I see the difference between your team sports and boxing, and I understand the boxing world and you see people in boxing, and you're quite right. You can be part of a group, the training group, but it all comes down to the individual. So you're responsible for your own own actions, and yeah, looking after yourself. There's no one else in there with you. So did you find any piece through boxing or in the cadet so or were you still still angry?
It was more it was an gay for me, the saying and the discipline and you know, physical ensurance that it was jam competing in the sports, you know. But at the same time we did started to acknowledge me. I'll take you a little bit of notice, but I think by that time it was too late. I think the damage was already done.
You'd move past through the years.
Yeah, and I got through points. I was like, what, fourteen years old, and you know they had loads of you know, musen as he shows, there's loads of lace, rebellion, malbo, loads of blaming. If it wasn't for you, you know, as a young seens. Yeah, I was boxing, you know, I says. And my dad didn't see them as intimidating as you did when I was younger. But I still had that fear. He still all that fear over me.
I do understand the hold, stupid. I also understand where you say it wasn't the pain of being punched or hit or flogged by your old man. It was just anticipating when it's gonna happen. And yeah, you're probably saying, you're saying like you're outgrownding by the age of four name, but it's still in your psyche, isn't it. What the upbringing? It's funny, funny transition.
Yeah, it is just like you know it is to be natured and loved them, you know, guided through your life. You know what it is to be beating you know, batter that's gonna be fair thought. That happened in everyone's family.
And whether he's the piece with it, you know, young kids that you will you know, I realized that it didn't it was any difference at my houseo to theirs, and he often wanted to be, you know, living with them and their family, you know, even that I was adopted.
Yeah, this is all a mistake. That's my family, not this one.
Yeah.
When when did you start getting into trouble with the law? When when did that start to play it?
I was probably like about fifteen, sixteen years old, heaving towards sixteen years old, and you know, I was boxing for a couple of years. I didn't want to be her own. So five shows standing on the street corners with young lads. I was heading in the right direction. It was quite well behaved. But then yeah, just trying to face in with a different crowd, and then drugs come on the scene. You know when I faced it was dealing cars. You know the thrill there's three or
four years going out and enjoyed riding. You know. Then you know that you can make a little bit of money for sholling wheels, seams in carsteadios. You know, by getting money, you know what you know, you start spend it on a bit of drink and that's a gay weight dog, you know, then a little bit of cannabis, and then you're so balling two other things. So to
me it was quite rapid. I realized that when it starts to say glug, you have very child with experiences kind of melted away from the bit briefly.
That's interesting, and you describe a path that has been followed so often by so many people. You know, you start dabbling in a little bit of crime, you get caught up in the wrong crowd, have alcohol. You haven't got the sense to know what your limited is when you're a kid, and then you start cannabis and then
rolls into something something more serious. Did you at any point in those those times, you know, I'm thinking you're fifteen around that age sixteen, did you ever try and check yourself and think I am heading down the wrong path here? Did that ever cross your mind?
You know what, it's even perfectly honest, moll, I suppose would have had that guidence. It was not like I think what happened was that I got sixteen years old, I was on these drugs. You know, it was all fun, it was all games, but it was losing fights. I'm sure I was losing the willingness, and you know that the joy, the enjoyment was a bit short of like declining. And then I think what really really God was when he had the fight was then based off when I was sixteen years old.
A straight far a straight farce. You got a nice little Evander Hollofield.
Either. Yeah, it wasn't actually based off it was shown back hornbook. It kind of didn't heal. So the SV movie again a couple of weeks later.
Wait, wait did that happen? Was that in the ring or was that in the straight?
That was a three fights that was all the strong petty as a young kid. It was an argument with an older lad who was like short of like yeah, sort of boulsom and everyone was afraid of him, and he's used to be mad than me and his adular bully and everyone. And I'm not taking this. I must you know, if you've got a staffish something of your fall for any of us and given as good as
it gore. Yeah, unfortunately, you know me a bit and then me shelf esteem, me confidence, the way I look, the way I perceived himself with girls and stuff.
I hadn't even thought about that, but yeah, if you had a badly damage you, you're a little bit sensitive about your looks and everything that's going on at that that age. So yeah, I can understand that would ply on your mind.
It's totally he was. I was just distructed more then.
Well did you did you do time in boys homes? Do you have no a detention centers?
Yeah? Yeah, I don't like when I was Chevy seeing me firsteens, I was gonna care all for a couple of weeks at sixteen to commit a time and then okay, I kind of like that to be honest. It sounds daisy, but it was a It was a mixed care all with girls and lads. They would all just functional, liking shelf, a little mad, crazy gang of unwell kids to believe.
So the way the way you're describing the billy, I can say it would be fun, but they'd have to keep a tight rain on that because it could get out of control too in a bunch of crew like you described.
Yeah, yeah, meet ye meet and girls and then you know, you know, you full of test all. You know, you're young and you know you love a little bit of a revelent. It was I was. I was arrested and on Liverpool showed me access who you know, the girls to avatime. I love the socials and all that. So it was just like it was. It was it was getting objected by a different kind of car. And I didn't want to go for bail. I mean, you know, young and you know Baylor's you know where they.
You let you go, You're you're happy where you were.
Yeah, I don't want to get bail. We'll go back home. I'm happy the fel Steve, but obviously he bailed me because it would be first defense. And then it wasn't long after that I was in juvenile hear Masste's Young Defenders Institute.
How did you cope with that? Was it daunting for you or was it almost like it was never the Yeah, it was very frightened.
It was because I've got to a point ended. I was addicted to the past drugs, the A six days, never seeing the transition from canabis and you know, snow balled into that massively. And I didn't understand the withdra passed taking Opius until that they go into this Young Defenders and Shoes. I was there for the week. I was horrible with the facet week and I never slept.
You're you're coming off the gate whale, isn't that?
Yeah, off the gear. I'm just we're gonna celerible states, couldn't shrip, but couldn't stop paying move and I was I was vomiting, had crampsh it was it was. It was an end of experience study. I remember vividly. And the worst pass about it was like she was lying
it all night, you know, for hours. It's just like wide away and and having to having soon no they I'm going to be doing it the next night, and the nice after that, and then the nice after that without any street and then we went by and I went to the course like you got to remember your fair Simon in a proper prison. And then you gave me bail. He said. It was at the course and there was a fan of fifteen pounds which he paid, bought me a drink and said, you know what's wrong?
Did you? And I couldn't really say. I was just you know, I didn't want to didn't have any idea any you know, wrongly, I don't know, I didn't have any understanding what you.
Just said there. It's so like it said, because you're old. Man's a product of his environment too, and he's probably trying to do the right thing, but it's probably the worst thing he could do. And yeah, I'll talk to him and take you across the across to the pub.
But yeah, well I was let's try. I wasn't. That wasn't that big drinking and never i've been, you know, being shown. That's being quite fond of it, you know, sultably as Fiday. But you know it was really I didn't least fit intentially the drinking crowd. Yeah, yeah, I had to drink him to drinking cool share at least. No, he's just watching me.
What was the hook that heroin? What heroin is such a like it destroys so many lives And like, I hear so many people talk about you once they've gone down down that path. What was the hook for you with heroin?
And what it gave me? It was like, yeah, I'll tell you how it started. A meta Gale found on his three calls. She must have been about twety years old. She was a shell of a shawl on the streets and you know, you know, can you can you get us any rowin? I was like, yeah, never even knew what it was. Never they did it well, I never knew what it was, never experienced day. I never knew where to get it from. Should have Shaya and the glads who were now who used to buy cannabis shops
happened to walk by. He's come over and she's like, can you get this gage? You litter get gave But he put me into the right direction. You know. I was trying to do good seas on it and pressed him and that was that when I drop into his flask nothing what they needed. I was watching them smoking and yeah, I was on the knee like couturing down smoking and on this film and was looking on, you know, strip me, and that's what I did, after just the
joints the name with only holy this. You know, you'll enjoy this, And I thought he's coming on to me, you know what I mean. So it's like curiosity. And I had a little a little girl and that was vomiting, you know, you know, but after that he feeling of like security, like a blanket over it. Strange and so you know, if you took me back to away place, you still had a bit of error. And we smoked it the next day as fast as you get the feel,
and I wasn't like vomiting. And then I leave it and then I called me a little way and then you know, come back to it a week later though, two weeks, and then it became habit forming.
I'm always curious, and I asked people with with the heroin addiction, like, at any point when when you're you've just described the point now to where where it's got you, you're chasing it, At any point do you have a clarity of mind to step back and think what am I doing? Why am I going down this path? Or is that those thoughts downing even cross your mind when you're addicted.
Man, it's so far back now. I think at the time it would be you know, you're young, You've got a native arrogance. You know, you think you can live forever at an early age, you know, bigst chair. I never had that awareness, but that understanding. I've got some point where the face time I've done that in a prison that was forced on me. I had no choice to do it. War Black and Blue will never do this again.
This is it.
I've had a loaf. I can't go through that. I hated it. And the minute I got out, every father in me being with streaming, get more, you'll be okay. Difference and it's like that eyes you know, you know, repeat the same mishaking, expected different results, and that's what I used. I'll do it, It'll be different, and it wasn't. It was over the game. And I found shall repeating that pattern of like refusially year after year after year, month after month, week after week.
I must stop them, just keep grabbing you back in time in prison. So this is your sixteen seventeen, You're addicted to drugs. You've done time in juvenile detention centers. When did you hit the big house? When did you hit the adult prisons and what sort of offenses were they for.
I was twenty one years old. I was three. You know, you've got to be an adult at twenty one in the UK to get it in the big hosh was the crabs were all druglyvated shop lifting. I was, I was, I was a petty animal.
The crime was to support the drug habits.
Yeah, it didn't really matter whether it was lobbing another drug dealer or robbing a lot of drug as if or you know, robbing me family or mean, it was a means to an end race. I didn't know. I did not want to feel the way I felt right, do anything to get it.
I've had other people talk about going down the path not this similar to what you've described and juvenile detention center. Everything's exciting, We're all going to be gangsters, We're all going to do this. Everything's yeah, we've got the future ahead of us. You said that sort of arrogance of youth.
But I've had people describe to me when they hit the big house, the adult PRIs and they look around and they see blakes in their forties and fifties of the spent yeah, half their life in prison and it's not that they realize it's not as glamorous. Did that cross your mind at twenty one? Going in there and a young young, a.
Young defenders person is very fast, lafishly quick, you know, you know you don't be as all quick as far you get to you know, the big olch and it slows down all all the cons of shield out a bit more mellow.
You know.
I'm like, let him out on the rounds because all that energy, and I remember it's a little old man, as there's an old man and he always I love to talk about this because he's probably wont the same age as me enw But he was fanning next he was found the next right. So it was on the prison land and that led my arms over it over the the railings, looking as I it's the lower level, and I was looking at him and a little saying.
He had a pair of saying he's on a pair of blue jeans, and he went, you know what's gone? You know we're not getting any younger and life doesn't get any easy, you know. Yeah, all right, lads, look at you? You know what I mean? That was my answer to you, How can you tell me anything? You're ear, But conversation has resonated over over over the ears of my mind. His family to the prison. That she just resonated really always like popped into the head that fellow Chad.
That's yea. He was vising, you know, or doesn't feel like I'm getting any younger. And it wasn't getting any easier either.
Yeah. Sometimes sometimes a very powerful message and a simple message, isn't it And the comment that makes you reflect.
Man sor he showed me that there's a different way of life offered me a little bit of hope. I wasn't really willing to listen at the time.
No, well you saying that, and I read someway correct me if I'm wrong, But you're saying like you still had a rebellus streak even when you were in custody. You did a protest on the roof until you got sun strike took us through that. What was that all about?
Couldn't face the reality of life no matter the way there was, you know, I didn't want to waken them after shame Monday and day in and out. It was just all say was audible. There was no interventions as you get today. It was just a job short that you were banged up for twenty three hours. It was hot. It was to day of the year through toowdy, and I thought, this is gott to end this iss. You've got to stop. I'm taking medication. I'm taking drugs that
I would never even see. Anyone who's got tablets, what addie? I don't know take them anyway? You know, did you feel any diftuff from what you're feeling now? Don't just find them? I mean as you won't give us a cent. So meet meet me mad at getting cloud of these medication. Did with this medication and putting a bit of weights on them, and it was like even really negative. It
was audible. And I members standing on the yar. The someone's beating army leftless on our pictures and one of the young lads for shame, Look you have a space off where shaped Obviously, let's just stay on the yar. When they called it in after the allergy, just stay out because the weather's way. They were only going to go back into those those shelves and like wet boxes. So we all rather rebel and then we're not going in. So when he called the game, we all say it out.
That's when the gates shots. They knew there was a problem. Then a couple of hours went by and then you know, the decisions to climb on the route was made by another young guy. People were throwing the beats out the window and we made a makeshift throw. We had to swatch. Gave me up this training pipe. And the minute he got on that route and the yells of approval that you know after for them and I bang him. It's amazing.
I have on a bit of that. So he was getting all those attention and then it was my tain and like fourteen it was back up. Was like the tad patents to get up. And I remember climber up and it was half way up this this make shift row and I remember there in this this pressure office poll missed on much. That's his real name, Joe. You'll
never You'll never get up there. You fast and kindly maybe like jolter bait and straighten and and I landed back down on the conquery and the landing on the back side, and I felt so shame and show embarrassed, wat to the ground for ork swallow me and not giving up, not giving up and try to do it again. I was the oldest one that was the fastestest met up at the time, yells approval. I have the hands
in the early rockey bell bawl. Yeah, and the minute the clappers to night and it was about the next patient getting up. I looked over the over the edge of the the roofs I see all these shape pleasure offices, and of course that's yea when it comes down and I am going to get a good beating off the ease. So yeah, it was short lived. The excitements and the thrills.
It's funny how you describe it, because I can see how you're driven to that. This is your your moment all of a sudden. Yeah, you're the focus of attention. You're enjoying yourself. You've broken up the monotony and the way you go. Yeah, it was Was it two thousand and five when you decided to head over the Thailand? What was your mindset there? Why white Thailand? And were you clean? You're out of prison obviously.
Yeah, that prison experience that I climbed on the roof, that was like that significant change in my legs. It was I was put us to delegating units. Then from from that more much comfortable. Eight stolid months, policy confinements, stiff and prisions. Yeah, they around, yeah, loads of times a team, loads of times that he flat you know, writing letters in your family, polishing them. I wouldn't do it again. I wouldn't name, it wouldn't get out, and I wouldn't use.
It, you know.
And I remember to get the opportunity to speak to me more because of something that had happened on another sherogation unit. I couldn't even forma senses for me mom as to the phone, I was like, really hate because it's been taken away from lobal location and putting short. See, there was no drugs in me shaw, so I was quite drow The wall of feelings were quite vibrance and laid, so any anything, I was very shesitive. So when he mostly like she tostly, oh my god, you okay, love,
what's going on to you about your billy? Look? Change your life? Get help past that? It hit me really hard and I couldn't answer her on the phone because there was cheap perision officers standing next to me and they were quite big, and I was like after trough at the same time with the fours if I blink tears ago to falls down on my face because there
was water in my eyes. So it just crated me seeing me, won't she look, I know you're hate and s just as for hell and I she said, put the phones on and went back and broke to on and Michelle. And that's when I wrote the letter to a place your office. Sherry came up suggested the Dove rehabilitation. You know, he had scheftered it because anything at that time,
but the truth, I mean shure. I went into this rehabilitation in two thousand and four and that's when I was introduced to recovery to the group called the Coltics Anonymous. You know, it was a fou. It was an addictive analitate. The personality one was too many in a thousand was nevertheless, you know, I've got a little bit of awareness of all. Your operator is now a navigated through light. You know, if a pick up the face, one maples the damage.
So it was like, you know, you have to remain abstinence and after the samis quite floors I don't as well as as as a flaws, but he said, look, you only have to stop using just to today. So okay, I can do that just today and a day led to it. It's a week, some weeks, letter months and months letter years, and you know they a plan, you know, with a whole new way of living. I feel like, you know, young has a lessons in a man's body at this time, because what had happened is I used
drugs from the earlias and started me emotional development. So by the time I was hasty and had been it's used to distruggy, I was still afting like a seventeen year old, you know.
Yeah, it might makes sense when you describe it that way.
If not younger. So you know, Thailand, you know, was messaged to me by a friend who just come back. You know, we've been in recovery for five years of relocated to a place called Bristol, which was like it was five hours away from Liverpool, and he was just groushat and he was telling me about his experience in Thailand. I've never been abroad. I've only ever been on a sweat box to different prisons in the UK and never
actually traveled anyway. Never had a passport, a bank account, of phone, they had money, you know, the things that people take for glances today. So we don't excite him, and he said, why don't you try to shave up and you know we'll go. We'll go to Thailand and he showed me this idea of a beautiful place of visit.
You know, we'll go backpack and he was a bit of an adventure there and I thought, okay, a field, I'd be shaped with this guy because he's five years creen and to me he was like put him on a pedestal. Wow. So I dare to save the bit of money, got myself the pass board all that sizes back past airports and that was it. We were gone, and I'm like, I'm a world class card carrying pleasure. She had, you knows, meselfing to tight paer of genius just for the feel, because it wasn't usual drug.
I was.
I was tired of life. I stopped smoking, I was training regular and I was boxing again and quite face and I was young, what hasy one?
You know?
Banding me life?
You know?
When I got off this plane in Bangkok and there was November, I remember because he had left. I'd left him. He throw airports in London and the weather was like vision and the tempionship was low. I've been hit with this ways I've never exterious that he'd like that, you know, and I thought, wow, this is exciting, and that was that, you know, it was great for a few few most out there, and so they went downhill.
How were you surviving over there, Billy? When you landed?
When I was living on a budget, to be fair, because it didn't drink. We were sharing water and we were sharing like the apartments. She'd saved enough money to get by, you know, we merely living beyond that means we couldn't. It was a shoe drink and we were walking everywhere. We were getting local bushes, the local scenes, and it was like the sham. I enjoyed it, you know, he enjoyed the ex traveling the way they do. It was like then, you know, when it became I wanted
to stay. After the femur, I'd met a Gales. She spoke English. She she was our Japanese off American and better than a meeting, you know, wedding bells were blowing off in the air because she was playing the chatters and she was she was giving me attention, and I thought, wow, you know, if she's not I'm not used to this, you know, especially if I'm not a woman that's good looking as this one. I thought, I want to stay here and I'll be for them as they look, i'm
going back. We need to go back in less than a week. And I went, look, I'm staying. So what are you going to do or you want to survive? I said, I think of shut show started doing this big news a box of competing. Then I thought they had job as a TC and English as a foreign language because he had a travel shows. That's some kind of income. Then you know, then I got a job on a Rambo four. We're for shore vestors alone, So.
Yeah, just break that down. So we've got the story this far. You've been over there, you went over there with your mate three months, you liked it, you met a woman that you liked. You thought, I'm going to stay here. Why why get why go back? You got employment teaching my title fighting my tie, which is the next sport over in in Thailand, and teaching English. And then I think this was in in your book and talking about on set for Rainback four with Sylvester Saloon.
It's an interesting deviation in your life. Talk talk to us about that.
But what I think was I was in a GB called the Royal Verital selling Shang Mai and it was there. It was a hotels, yam you go there, just use it. It was and I was a guy in there on the run machine and I recognized places stain. Is he a boxer? Maybe that's where it's seen them show started it's got away and said that maybe what do you flo You should have film meious you're a boxer. You went, no, no, you should have laughed it. I said, oh, yeah, that's
your fad. What have you been in these correlations? Which is a popular program that's being on go USU in the UK, And I never, I never don't watch that sort so okay, yeah, that's that's nice. Just what are you doing? Early old fellow for music or you know ramble, you know, but what you mentioned rulers stology because he was my you know, no rock rock? Yeah, you know, yeah, I love rocking. He said yeah, he said, you know, I've got a roll in that, and so that's got
for you in it, And that's that was Yeah. I didn't think much of it. A couple of days later I'd tell you I was in the same gym, and then you know, the casting Ayson came in looking for all you know, non tie so westerns and it was a shovision there the asters will be late to have a be an extra, be a part of a party in this movie. She chumped at the chance, gave it all the details. He chucked me. I's each other, photographs, we name and data, bath and everything else that you needed.
And then I'd say about a week later, it gets a phone call with this this American actions, Hey billy, smile America. You know will be love what we had. We love what we saw in the gym, and you know we'd like to see you know, we'd like to get you on board. Would you would you come in? And we need you to play so vestless the long standing and it's all come on whose day? Because I told everyone, I mean I told everyone that you couldn't getting anything at the times they're excited. I was telling
everyone for someone's someone's having a joke here. What yeah, man, we we we love what you're doing. And found it very convinced them to be fatal. Was it? Man, I've got play along here. He meets at the Royal Local. Don't tell her five a m. I was thinking that's a bit early, you know, five am. That was okay, So I got off the fallout. But I was like, nice to be a black or just don't know me. I went to the Royal Local do tell a five.
I was there to be earlier, and then there was a little mini bus waiting for her that was off today. It's location close to the Baby's border in a Shangai. And that's why I start to the this movie show with Stone. That's him.
You made him, you got to meet him.
Yeah, I was speaking to him. I wasted fans and I was gonna tailor he games with what faith he haven't? Just like that.
Damn for a sake, Billy, You've grown up watching Rocky and Sylvester Salone as your hero like so many other other people in the from the Rocky films, And here you are in the trailer working on a film with him playing the stunt double and he comes to watch a fight. How cool would have that been?
That's amazing? But what he added benefit, he added bonus to meet meeting him the way he did was his man. As yet it's called Kevin King Templeton Races. Now. Kevin King is a sculture. He's from Littletool, He's a shelf made a millionaire and he lived in Krotte and I had a football shopper and you know you've on littlepool. Yeah he's so started at toll and what you hear, but you do hear them as you do. Said, you
know I managed alone. I was like your mess and I'm a pretty badly kidnapped like and it's all get a picture of the get him, get him and get him to get a picture of merola, so we said.
And the father name, I said, I was Unuro. Once those crow to him, he's had had the throats on this sin where he said, I need a volunteer man, I want to rich somebody's pipe out, I said, had he had there hands on his throats for this she and to set up the lighting on the camera, shadow and stuff like that, and you know it was just like shining and getting me thrown ripped out by show this that the loan wow by ramble. But after that that shot, I said, I said to Kevin, said, low,
I don't care who you are. There's no man on the planet that right now. Another man's went pipe out with his beads and he went rambo can right, Uh, you haven't got an answer for that. It was just yes, but that was making edible amazing. Berry is the way to them for a few months. That's some really wonderful people, some colorful characters. Life was kind of useful at the time. I was waking in the fuel, I was boxing over night,
a litt bit of an income. I was getting paid to this year filming, which you would have tumped them onto.
Really, so it was a good time in your life for a good period. And you're thinking, you're pointing in a good direction.
Yeah, that was cleaning. I was in covery. I was doing all the my things goal to meeting. Yeah, I'm sure I was shod.
And when you when you say you were boxing, were you're doing moy thile? Was it a straight boxing or you're into the mutie.
That that and that was yeah, I was. I was fighting in silent with the size.
Yeah, there's a fight on every night, there isn't it. Then with the.
Sometimes clear and I yeah, yeah, well it didn't really matter to me.
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That's great? I feel when the film and ended and everyone went badge, you know, I mess a lot of gear. I was emotionally. Is she sure I couldn't deal with the jackson my father? She had another gay yeah, so as actually and other fells. You know me, I was blud she was shy when I was driving. She says
she loved me. I said, have loved there, but Ja, she says she loved this jere like that thoughts me and you and I same on the UNA and I couldn't get me head dried and she couldn't wait again A rather fact that I put my chef that I was very confused and and and we have to part company. But it broke me. It broke me very dead, and I couldn't deal without felt I couldn't cope. I stopped
going to meetings. I didn't want to tell people about where it was, adding me life shame and my father shove that E barged the lincome boat water went to their bro you know. And then I remember looking at the name the Spirits and having this little fight inside me, saying, you know, one I'll take away the pain. Just watch someone. And I was arguing with my sling with dogs and I lost that battle. You know, the fuckers kicked in gives them. They didn't have brandy at the time, struggle
with it's a show. Wish you and remember it then, and we shocked off with strolls are the pain? Kind of the space hevaporated. I picked up a phone books with under the English guy. I said, look, brings some drugs to this this bar he came with from Shum come down and I said, no, look, we need to get from cocaine. So who do you do we asked, Well, that's the lazy boys. Yeah, got in thrun to this lazy boy was smoking up down the streets. Cocaine. No cocaine,
yeah ba, so what's that? We don't know what didn't even editing never edded it? Yeah by okay, okay, yeah bye. Got on the back of the bike went to this backseats apartments. I mean this. This guy went into this room shut down on the stubble bed with these sides ship. There was about four or five sides on the floor and the smoke filled where he cares. Not one of them looked at us. While this lady boy went upstairs somewhere to buy these these Yaba pills. She came on
with these pink tablets and what's this? What did we do? I don't want to see her the tablet and no, the mean I want shut And then she put her on the foil and put it on the foil and what's this tablet evaporates into into a bowl of oil and it remained the ahead of him the head and goes like a black hockey. And that's what happened with this pair of her from a pink tablet into a
black oily liquid. I think, wow. The smokers cuver off it smoke that then you this Wow, I was like this, this feeling was so amazing at the time, it was, it was quick. It's shown every and away I wanted was more than easily.
Okay, So that's life going good. You've been hurting a love situation you're you're looking to numb the pine, and you fell back in their own habits. It's as said in as simple as that.
Yeah, yeah, after three inch of maintaining an after gi you know, I ate that old hard with drugs again, you know, but this time in a different county, taking addiction to a different level. Feeling I was untouchable in this truncy because the door of corruption.
So you got the taste of it. You're thinking, well, I'm not going to get damn for it if I get caught a pirvate cops off or whatever.
The white if if you had the money you know, that paid them off for it. Was that Asst Hude at the time, you know, to fund the abbot that had developed the kind of like get some some more income because we've lost the job, but go with the kids. A skull because of that didn't turn up. But it was not doing well I should have been doing it was not I'm not pleasant the boxing. I wasn't really engaging because it was losing fight because he had no
fitness in me. So we had no shows that in con show was offered part of the drugs by this high former time police officers to make money and from the abbey. You know, the temptation they was too much to refuse. And I took the bag of pills and started to sell them to the foreigners and nightclubs. I was the old best customer. I was usual load of.
I'm sitting here laughing, laughing, Billy, and I shouldn't be laughing because it's just said, isn't it. You're just saying, Hey, you're talking here and there looking back at your life, and you're just you're watching it just fall apart.
Actually it's just like every and it's just like it seems like a good idea at the time, but in reality, you know, it's just destruction, ammihilation of your life. And that's that's that's what happened. You know, tasty three years old at this time. You know what I mean is just falling apart, become badly massy.
Yeah, okay, we might will take a break here, Billy. We'll end part one and we'll come back come back for part two. I've really enjoyed getting a sense of who you are and the way that you're going to reflect on you know, how do I get to this point? At that point? But when we get back for part two.
We're going to talk about when it did go bad, when you got locked up in Thailand, your time in prison, and how you survive that, because it is about survival in there and what you're doing with your life now and how you've turned it round. But it's fascinating at this stage, and I'm telling people listening here, wait, you hear some of the things that went down in the prison, that stuff that you don't forget. So we'll be back shortly for a part two.