The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective sy a side of life the average person is never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world. Welcome back to Part two of Them, A Chat with
Sue and Lloyd Clark. They're the parents of Hannah Clark and the grandparents of Aliyah six years old, Leyana four years old, and Trey three years old, who are all murdered in February twenty twenty in a crime that shocked the nation when they were doused in petrol and set a light in their vehicle by Roan Baxter. Hannah's husband and the father of the children. Guys, welcome, Welcome back Part two.
Ready to go.
Yep, I'm glad you guys are. It's pretty heavy subject that we're talking about, and I apologize that, yeah, reliving it, but no, it's it's not a problem. The things that we're going to talk about in part two, I think of vital importance and making sure if in any way we can prevent this type of thing happening. We left left part one. When you've been informed, you found out that what had happened to Hannah and the children. Talk us through the next forty eight hours.
We were numb.
I think after Hannah finally passed, she hung on till a brother came back from the mines, had to ring him and get him flowing back home, and we said goodbye to our and then we were just numb. I think in a bit of a days. It had been one hell of a long day and we got home and I know, for some reason we all decided, we had Natt and Stacy with us, that we would go down to the corner just to see what was there the flowers. And as we were walking down, a storming
and we had a bit of a chuckle. That was having to telling the kids to get to bed.
He left.
She's still controlling, he's still telling that.
They're still playing up at bedtime. And then the next morning, I think, well, we didn't sleep, neither of us slept at wink. I called you in to bed with Alia's favorite little elephant. And next morning we got up, took the dogs and went for walk through the bush't we?
And that same all that day so rain. That night, a big storm came through. It was just a typical February weather up here are humored, sticky, And the next day there's just all these yellow butterflies everywhere, everywhere, just butterflies everywhere. And that's why we've got the butterflies on the emblem as well, Johannah's feet and the butterflies. So I thought, well, you know, it's it's a bit of a sign sort of thing.
It is.
But yeah, for those next I suppose the next couple of months we were just numb. We didn't know what to do, where to go. And then next thing we was.
Sort of we had these feet we didn't know what to do with. And icee you when someone's going to die, they give you a handprint on that person to keep well. The only thing that was left of hand it was the sales of a feet because she'd had joggers on so they didn't get burnt. So we were given her footprints.
And I can't remember how long after the ac couple current affair was wanted us to do an interview, and they somehow I got ahold of Nat and that said we'll go do this interview, you know, for a current affair with Tracy and I just we didn't really want to do it, so and I thought, really, so we're getting I didn't want to. I refused it first, Yes, and the police were still looking after us. The detectors, they're like our personal bodyguards, and they were just with us. Now.
Next morning they just turned up, are okay, what can we do? Can we get you anything? So they were wonderful and we've now formed really good friendships with tom O and Shan. We keep in touch all the time. And they were driving us too for the interview. It was set up in a private house somewhere they'd airbnb one. So we're given the location and as I'm walking out, I said, I just want to grab these I want the nation to know that's all we've got left of Hannah.
Footprints prince. Yeah, and so we did the interview. I showed the world her feet. You know, we come home after that and I suppose to having a few drinks. We're sitting around and we're while we're there, we're talking to lew and Simon about you know that was friends, about maybe starting a foundation, you know, maybe we should do education. Let's look at all this. So then that's when we started getting the idea deers around, you know, sort of footprints. Well, we don't know what we're doing.
We'll just do small steps. Let's do small steps for Hannah and make it a four for the four of them. So that's how that sort of all came about, you know, the foundation, the symbol, and then we put the yellow butterflies. So we got the feet for Hannah, and the yellow butterflies are the kids.
Three are supposed to be teal because teal was her favorite color, and the pink because she was forbidden to wear pink.
So symbolic, so symbolic, and I think it's that really brings home that that's what you're left of Hannah the prince.
And then when you looked at too in age Hannah Aliyah Leana Trey Holt, so that became our our I'm saying that you had a wholt domestic violence. Well, and I'd like to say it be Holt law, not Hannah's law, because everyone knows Hannah, but we're forgetting the kids. Yeah, so we called the Holt law.
Okay, isn't that It's got Well, I understand your thought process there. So when you said you waited until Nathan came down from the minds for Hannah to say goodbye, did you get to speak to her after the event?
Was she they had a heavily sedated Yeah, we never got. I spoke to her, but she didn't respond.
All right, So.
You've got to move forward. I think a couple of things that really touched me was the vigil the community. The vigil there at the Parkland that a thousand people there. You were shocked. Did you see it? Did you get a sense of what was happening and involved in it?
It was just crazy. We got to knock at the front door, and he's the mayor and his wife and our local counselor and police commissioner and on our door. We never spent time with people like that, you know, we were normal people, and we let them into our home home, a little house, and they said we would like to do this. We feel the community needs it
and would like it. And we were overwhelmed that people felt like that, like we'd always been nobody's you know, and the thought that people wanted to support us was lovely.
The flowers were starting to and teddy bears and that were starting to pile up on the corner. So the counselor, Fiota cuming Ham had said, well, I think we will move it down to Bill Hewett Park and people can leave their gifts and thoughts there because it's just spilling out everywhere. So that's when they said, well, if you'd like, we'd like to organize a vigil, you know, and you guys don't have to do I think we'll organize it all and put the word out. But we were just
so touched. There was so many people I suppose we'd lost touch with over the years because we went our
separate ways. And it was mainly the people that I met from when I moved to Brisbane in nineteen eighty to come down here and play football, and I think we all formed a very strong bond back there then, and they were forever friends, and they sort of friends that you don't see for six months, twelve months, ten years, but next time you see them, you can start that conversation as if it was twenty years ago, sitting in the pub having it a good old chat. We never
lost touch in that respect. So everyone just banned around Hannah's friends. There were so many people that were there, you know.
That was We had old school friends turn up. They were living on the other side of Brisbane. It was just amazing.
And did that that help you guys process?
I don't know.
I think I was a nub to be honest. It was lovely to see that and feel the support, But I don't know in all honesty if it helped at the time, I didn't not help.
Yeah, I couldn't say whether yeah, it made me feel stronger or that. But it was just lovely to see and people came from to Womba, yes, came down. But then again we started getting these stories. You know, we didn't need to hear them at that time. Out they're dramas their problem and I really love you know, I'm still trying to process my own grief here. How can I but we're lucky tom O and Shane were there. They would see this and they'd sort of okay, we're going to take you over here.
When there's a tragedy of the magnitude that what you guys suffered Pannah and the children, people quite don't often know how to deal with it and deal with what to say. Like I I've had people that have had situations not this similar to what you've gone through, and people avoid them on the street, people that because they don't know what to say. Oh, there's Lloyd and Sue. What do we I'm just avoid.
We've had had that a lot. I've had people come up to me three years later and say I've met them somewhere. You said, oh yeah. I said, oh look, I really wanted to call you, but I didn't know what to say, so we had to say was hello, Yeah, I said, you know, I'm happy, you know, like if I take your call or leave a message and I'll call you back now when I can. So basically from that day, I think I put my phone on silent and I just look at down there and go, oh, yeah, okay,
I'll ring that person. I know they're okay, ring them didn't know that number. Let it go. They left a message I'd get back to them.
And quite often people in your situations, or one person particularly, said that the best thing someone could say to me was just not trying to make you feel better by wise words, because there's no just thinking of you, yes, and give you a cuddle.
Yeah.
One of the girls I worked with rang me the next morning and all she said was f love. I've got no words and it was just so true, and I said I don't either.
Yeah, but something as simple as that, it's profound in the simplicity of it.
Yeah.
There was a park named Hannah's Place. The portion in the park, yes, is that? Does that feel nice for you to know that hasn't been forgotten?
We go up on the nineteenth feb every year and we go up on Hannah's birthday and have a drink. It's nice.
I mean the council just did that off the bat and said, look, we're going to do this little bench in the Bill Hue Park and little cover so people can just come sit, talk, reflect whether they think about Hannah orhere they think about someone else. And then they put the sign up Hannah's Place, And then what happened, just so people will know down the track you know who hell it was. But I don't think a lot of people will forget her.
No, I'm sure that it won't be the case. So small steps for Hannah. What's the aims and goals of that group to.
Get course of control? Our Lord's standalone laws in every state would be wonderful. And education and saving women Hannah wanted to. She was in the process of applied to the police force when she was killed, because she said, I understand it. I can help women like myself. So that's one of our goals. She's not here to do it. So we want to save women. But education is our big thing now.
I think it's got to be the twofold And sometimes I get concerned when there's a crime domestic violence. We're talking here and the attitude is, Okay, well, we're going to make the laws tougher. We're going to do this, We're going to do that. But it's got to be a multi layered approach. I think to make a difference. Let's talk about coercive control. Because I talked about when we met at that function. One of the things I walked away inspired and I don't know if you are
steering the politicians or the attorney generals to me. But I came back with there thinking one hundred percent this has to be done. And I've gone on about coercive controls in a lot of different podcasts of different forums because it just makes sense to me. Now, for those that don't know what coercive control what we're talking about here, coercive control laws, I'll refer back to the police just
to explain it. We'll dumb it down. In my day in the police, without coercive control, we get called to a domestic and if you get called to too many domestics, what's happened here? Well, nothing will. The neighbor's called, there's a disturbance, invariably, and this is a bad old days. It's well, you'd look to the woman, and the woman say no, I'm fine, even though you can tell that
she's scared. But the husband's standing right there. We improved policing to domestic type of assaults or of family violence to the point where okay, we've got the power of the aviva. We'll take our that break, not a family violence order or whatever the thing that Hannah took out that helps to a degree, but it doesn't circumvent it. And police we look at things very black and white. If there's no assault, like if I'm talking to I turn up at your place, there's Lloyd and Sue. I
haven't been assaulted, but he's done this, done that. Well, it's not really legislation for it. Cowersive control is making it a law, a law that can be acted upon about the behavior and control of a person in an intimate relationship. I think it's a no brainer now. It was passed in parliament here in Queensland on sixth of March, and in New South Wales it's been flagged in parliament there.
I think it's a great step. And would you guys agree that powers like that could have made a difference in Hannah's situation?
Oh definitely. Well, for once she would have realized it was actually a crime more domestic violence being committed against her. Ye, so I think she may have looked at things differently, probably acted earlier quicker.
Like we were saying, with the A v O, d v as whatever you want to call them. You know they're just a bit of paper. How does that stop someone from Okay, you're it says Oh, you're not allowed to go within a kilometer.
And when you're talking in this idiot.
That means nothing to him.
Yeah, he's not going to worry about that.
So you know, this is where I think we spoke earlier the other day about it, you know, monitoring. Okay, we've got to go down that path. Definitely, nationally a register everyone who does a dvo or whatever, they need to be registered, so nationally they know that they've had a dvo or put a dvo on them. Then also they need to do a program a perpetrate.
Okay, I don't want to forget these points, because they're all very valid points I want to break breakdown.
Won't that make it a bit easier to follow them, to know where they're at if they are getting too close? Especially in Hannah's case, we would have known that he was hiding beside the house.
Let's get on our soapbox here and hopefully people are listening to the podcast. Like an ankle bracelet, how would that make a difference. I just in this day and age of technology the way it is, I, for the life of me don't understand why that's not implemented asap, And it.
Could be something out there. But it could be like an app.
Well, we could do it during COVID, couldn't We could track everyone the movements during COVID, and that was everyone. Why can't we have a Okay, there's a domestic violent situation. Someone gets an ankle bracelet put onto them, because that's the person that's rowan. In the case case of Hannah, if he comes within five kilometers or make it ten kilometers, alarms go off, police are notified. Hannah's no theifire, and all of a sudden she can live her life in
peace knowing that she's safe in that he's not close by. Okay, people say, but they could cut the ankle bracelet off the moment that's cut off the alarm game and has notified. So there's all these protocols in place. To me, it just seems like a no brainer. And what are the arguments not invasion of privacy or this or that. I don't see it. They've only got the ankle bracelet on them because they're repeat offenders or they've been more and
they've done it again and it could circumven it. Can anyone in this room find the problem at all?
I definitely not, you know, I actually seem like a little spike or a.
Shock like the barking dot.
Why not you know, if they come within that class, they get a bit of a shock. Hang on your step back now, No, but.
I think it would save lives.
One hundred percent would save lives. And like, why can't we talk about we're going to get tough, We're going to do this, We're going to do that. I understand that tighten up the bail laws, make it so people don't get a chance. But in the conversations we had the other day, it was about everyone deserves a chance. Yeah, we'll give them one chance. But if they fail on that chance, here's your bracelet, idiot, and you come within five kilometers of the person that's at risk, you're going to jail.
Yep.
I like that. And it's a register, yeah, national register.
On the register thing. And I often have this conversation with sex offenders and that different type of situation. But let's do it for domestic violence register. People say it's an invasion of privacy. Okay, why don't we have it like this? So I've never been charged with domestic violence, you haven't been charged with domestic violence. I'm happy to go on the register. If I happen to be out dating someone or meeting someone, can I check whether you're
on the register? Yeah, you can check. Here's my name. I'm on the register. So it's the idiots that have got these charges won't be on the register. So it's not the invasion of anyone. We flip it a little bit. It's a voluntary it's voluntary. So I'm happy to go on the register because I haven't got a charge. So if anyone wants to check me out, Gary jubiln blah blah blah, No is why can't we do that?
Yeah? Exactly.
To me, that seems like a simple solution and we circumvent all this. It's an invasion of privacy and everyone's got to forget that. I volunteer to go on the register so anyone can contact me little things like that. Now, Education, again, I keep repeating this because I've seen it too many times over my career that if something's going wrong with a crime, we're going to get tough on this and we're going to you know, we're mandatory sentence, We're going
to do this. We need to educate people about domestic violence, about coercive control. We need to call people out on them and it needs to start at a young young age all the way through. What's your thoughts on that.
Well, we're now well small steps, I should say. We've got two brilliant people who are tackling it on two different aspects. One's the whole program Dave Kramer, who used to train with Hannah. He's now a behavioral specialist scientist, and he's doing one for the children, so high school aged children. At the moment, we're still and it's taken a while because we want to get it right. Because we're talking children here and they're in our future. We
want them to behave properly in relationships. They need to learn how to behave properly and break up properly. So days is just get ready to do another pilot and put it out there.
So he's going under the schools in the school.
Something Manfield up here in Queensland. He's the owner. Mansiell's got them lined up to do the next pilot and then we should be right to just start rolling it out. However he can know how often he can. He's got the work to do. But with both programs, we don't want to franchise it. We don't want to just go out there push bush bush. We want it delivered properly and quietly. The other one is Michael.
So people if it's hold.
And days working with the university and professors getting their inputs on how to speak to the children, and also talking to the children about what they're seene on social media and how to understand that and how a lot of it's not right, and how to do with their feelings and how if a lot of boys get upset
and they lash out. Dave talks about how to deal with those feelings, and Dave's, you know, a fit young fellow, and he explains or talks about it's okay to cry, and Dave may get tears while he was talking because he loved Tanna and the children. They were good friends. And when the kids see him get emotional, they see it's okay, it's okay for a man to be He's a.
Person they can look up to ye and also show.
Emotion exactly, So he's really hitting it as not accusing all teenage boys as being potential perpetrators, but just how to deal with your emotions and what you see on social media and just coping with teenage life as such, and respect for relationships.
So and dealing with your emotions is an important part. Lloyd, I look at you, you can look at me you. I think we've shared ground. When you were young, like you didn't know how to deal with your emotions. You got you're either cranky or you were happy. Yes, that was and because that was the role models that were shown.
That's right, there was. Well my era too, there was no mentors. I didn't have a mentor, like, oh a few people did, but who needs a mentor? And then if you did something, you know, you're stuffed up at work, you know, you started showing an emotion. I hardened up, mate, have a cup of concrete, Come on, move on. And I think that's sort of maybe made me a bit of a tough old bugger and realized that, you know,
there's more to life, you know. Okay, we've had a terrible tragedy or the worst tragedy ever, but I need to move on, you know, I need to never get over it. Don't get me wrong, never there. But we had to just get up and keep going. And I think we said earlier, we just helped each other and we spoke we talked, and this is what I think.
It's conversation. We need to have conversations. So we haven't going to have conversations with children in schools about behaving properly and about there but their emotions and showing them and or not showing them all that sort.
Of stuff, and it's not it's not building a soft society. I think the problem we've got just discussions. If blakes break up like a rel relationship, and I won't use realm because I think he's an outlier in that. It's women sit down and do brief, go through the nitty gritty of it or whatever. If Lloyd and I are sitting there and broke up, Oh that's so good mate, What what are you drinking? It's almost that discissive type thing.
And this week and the tips, Yeah, don't have.
The hard subjects. That's just bas and that's what we shy away from it. And I think that's where you get these people caught up in this just spiraling circle of obsession or what ever. Then they haven't got the release, they don't know how to talk talk through it. So education at the school, So Dave's full name Dave Kramer, and the whole program. So if people want to see what's.
Going on, just get onto our website and we've got a section there for education, and yeah, they can just send us an email and yeah, we'll try and fit them in.
I do think it is a way to approach it. Wait, wait, definitely a way to approach it. You've got to re educate. I on the podcast series Breaking Badness, I went into a prison covering speaking to inmates in a maximum security prison, and there was something that was discussed with me when I actually got to sit down and speak to some of the inmates and you know, what are you're in
here for? And somewhere in there for horrendous crimes? Blah blah blah, And then the topic of domestic violence came up, and they said the problem that what happens if someone is being charged with domestic violence, breach the AVA or whatever,
end up in prison. They're in there, they're in there with angry men, and they're angry, and then they serve their time for breaching the a v O. And then they get out and they're just been pacing up and down their cell going that, bitch, why won't you report me? So they're getting they're getting out angry, and it's not you know it, we know it's stupid, but this is
the logic going in their mind. And someone said and there was just is obviously spent a lot of time in prison this, but there needs to be something to help them in there to work to navigate away away from this. Otherwise you're just put in men that were angry to start with. That's why they're in here, and then they're in here and they're getting out angrier, and no one's an intervention program for that type of thing. So but all these things that there's so many different
layers to it, isn't it exactly? And falling back on the politician side of it and the police side of it, where bail is being given, there's some warning signs there and I think someone mentioned that there was someone that was bailed after they killed their ex's pet to me and again not a psychologist, but that's warning, warning and how they get bail from there. So there's a lot of things that need to be done to make a difference.
Are you guys confident like you've been given a platform and it's a platform that you certainly didn't want And I sense an easier life for you would be stepping away. Do you think we are getting better at dealing with domestic and family violence?
It's hard. I think we're getting more aware. Everyone's getting more aware. The conversations are great at the moment because we're seeing people talking about it and it's not just you know, the cause of control, but it's all domestic and family violence. So now the federal government's getting involved. Finally taken four years from nearly four years from Hannah, until the federal governments turned around said we need a
national inquiry, we need a national input. So let's get all the states together, and that's what we've been pushing for is get all the states to bloody turn around and do something. It'd be great if there was just one law that suited every state and territory, but unfortunately that's never going to happen. So we've got to make sure that these other states and territories actually do something, just not be Queensland, New South Wales and hopefully South Australia.
Well there's already some laws in Tasmania, but they probably need to be bolstered up a bit. But we're seeing a shift in policing with her some really good stories come out.
Tell us that because people think I bash it up on the police sometimes that I love good stories about policing.
We did tell that Christy Oh, a friend of ours up the coast, who twenty years ago had been in a domestic violence relationship which was quite physical, and she's since, as often happens, has a fellow and she's in the same situation now. But New Year's Eve the police were called. He got out of carving knife and rang the police and said that she was trying to attack him, and they clearly saw through it for what it was. But the police did advise that one should leave the house.
No one did, but the police helped get him to an AA meeting, They got him to a psychologist, and they really kept checking in and doing wellfall checks and she said the change in twenty years to how the police reacted was amazing.
Okay, well, that's credit to the police. I do think that I do think they've become aware of the situation they have.
And we've sent it here in Queensland, especially when you know we also with the Foundation, we give grants out so that before we actually sort of got involved, well, we didn't think we'd be able to do the education because she just didn't know how to set that up. So you had all this money piling up. People were
just donating to us, you know, to help. We thought, well, okay, we've got this money, and we spoke to our patron, Nina Shremmon, and she said, all you need to do is just sit on it, put in the bank, maybe start giving grants out.
To workwhile projects.
Yeah, people that foundations that can't get the grands have missed out on grants. So we just put a call out and our goal is and we're going to reach that quite comfortably. We'd like to give a million dollars out with them five years, and that's coming around pretty quick and we'll definitely have it before the five years, so we and just give out whatever. And one of them was to set of women and co here a
little foundation. They have counselors and what they did they were putting them out with the police to go out and help in the domestic violence in the Logan area. And they the funding to run out, so they're going to shut it down. I read this in the paper and then so did the our our shairman on the board, and we sort of both had the same idea at the same time. Well, let's do something about it. Let's
get in touch, let's maybe give them some money. We can't give them do it forever, but maybe pay for six months and then see what happens.
And so that was having a counselor go out with the police to attend.
A semestic or people who wouldn't didn't want to come in because they've actually had problems with the police to start with. They hated going to the police. Distrust, yeah, distrust, you know that sort of thing. So they would go, look, I'll go down and see them have a couple or ring them in and I'll actually sit there with you through the interview, so you're comfortable, right, and then I'll take you back home.
Just a little thinks like that make a big So we did that.
They also were helping the police with how to phrase the questions. Now they were saying, like, how about you asked this way, and that helped the police a lot because they understood better and they were getting better answer.
I think.
And the police want to do it. They set out to do a bad job. And I know, you speak to any police officer and they all put the hand up to how intimidating it was the first time you got called to a domestic because invariably you were younger than the person you were going there to tell how to behave and you walk in there and go, I don't know what to do.
That's right. So if you've got a young constable, but that and you've got someone who's experienced helping you and advising you on what to say and what to look for, makes a huge difference.
Well, it's again so many different things to look at, isn't it.
Well, the police here are actually trialing that in three of our worst domestic violence areas at the moment, having co responders go out.
And when we went down there too, oh they wonder, thank us and that, you know, and do the whole novelty check thing and hand that over. Had a bit of a morning tea down there and talking to one of the senior police there, he said, mate, you don't believe the difference in policing, he said, once before before we actually had these guys on as coresponders. You know, we'd put a call out there's a domestic dispirit at such a star everyone's going, oh, hang on, there's also
a car crash. We'll go to the car crash, the car crash, and then all of a sudden, you know, they realize that they are helping and they're doing really good for the community. They will get into the bottom of everything. He said, No one wants to go to car crash anymore. They will want to go to the DV situation. How good is that? That's that's great.
That's great. And like I think policing, if you can prevent crime, it's you want to prevent crime. It makes everyone's world a better place if you can, if you can prevent it.
So we'll go back to that education in this. We've got to educate the perpetrator most definitely.
We've talked about programs coming in legislation, different things that you can done. I know in the conversation you guys we had had the other day, we're talking about people. Friends. You me have got to call out other people before we see it going bad and not take that sort of it's a little bit awkward. I don't want to buy into this. So if we see things happening as a friend, as a friend, associate or whatever, you've got to speak up. Would you guys agree on that.
Very much, so very much so even just to hear your friends said, your derogatory remark about a woman, you know, so mate, we don't do that anymore.
Not cool. And I think that's our other program too, is called Hannah's Story. So that's for more the adult corporate sort of thing football or clubs, you know, And that's been that started rolling out late last year and Michael j has done all the framework for it. So Michael's an educated talker speaker, and he has done this on the podcast Hannah's Story. So it's gender based. Of course, it's Hannah's Story and there's that so many red flags there and it's quite hard hitting, very to the bone.
But it has got some great reviews. He delivers it as a male to talking about a male doing the wrong thing. And I think, you know, it's a good program because it shows you the red flags, it shows you what to look for and actually, yeah, speak about it.
Gives it a true life story. Yes, that's the fart of Hannah and the kids. And also he has some of the clips from the police cams when they were dealing with so people can see.
So and so you may made the point you know if people sitting around and they say something derogatory or whatever, and Lloyd, you would have seen that you sit and they're not.
As part of it. Yeah, as a football playing football, we all made those comments and.
I could imagine that bitch of a wife wants me to go home. Yeah, something like that. We don't have to get too precious, but we've got to. Yeah, the world has changed and we've got to go. If this blake is, if it's not said in total jest or nothing, they've got to be called on it. You shouldn't be speaking about your wife like that's a bit of respect.
Yeah, exactly.
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Listen early and ad free on Crime x Plus on Apple Podcasts Today Your life, Guys, you wouldn't have expected your life to be where it is now. You talked at the Starter part one about you have to continue on because you've got family. What other option have you got? Look at looking back, what they think life's all about for you to now? Is it a day to day struggle or you've got purpose or you've got the memories.
Day to day struggles still, really it is to hope with and then other days you feel you're on top of it and you've got some goals, and then back to square one.
It's yeah, yeah, I don't know. Every year since I think I feel top more tired. I just starting to lose a bit of that zest, that energy I suppose, you know, just sort of get out there and keep knocking on doors, trying to talk to politicians, do and report interviews, and that just find it harder this year. I don't know, Maybe it's just that third fourth year
coming around. Maybe just need a really good break. But we had a good break over Christmas, so and I was ready to thinking, well, OK, this year, we've got a few things lined up, but we want to sort of just step back this year a bit, just let the education, let the boys concentrate on that and help out wherever we can there. It's sort of it's been an emotional ride again, you know, sort of yeah, knock us about a bit, but you know, we've sort of got to keep just moving on and I think we'll
just take it slowly this year. And we're actually going down to New South Wales to do a presentation to the New South Wales Police. They've asked us starting yeah, yeah, and we were so grateful to be honored to be asked to go down there and talk to them.
I think that's such a great idea by a New South Wales Police to get you involved, because I know if police sit there that can be a bit cynical. You guys come down there and tell your story and that and there won't be a person in the room that's not sort of switch switched onto it. So that's good. You've got to make sure you look after yourselves guys too, Like I've seen people through my years in homicide that they're on that campaign. You've got to be able to look after yourself.
And that's what I'm going to take a bit of time this year and just.
Yeah, yeah, and I think even that that function before the COVID lockdown, you guys said to me, and I still still remember it, that you're just tired. You know, you're doing so many things and you've been pulled from pillar to post. I say to you, and I pulled you into the podcast. I'm saying, take it easy. What a hypocrite I am. But the work that you're doing
is worthwhile. You are you are, you are definitely making a difference, and you've inspired me just sitting down talking to you, because I think a couple of things that we stumble across or you're thought of, it's just so obvious, isn't it, like with the coercive control? Well, how does it take us hundreds of years to work out we needed this, like say, blatantly obvious ankle bracelets. Let's push that. I'm going to champion that everywhere I go. Let's just
keep going ankle bracelet, ankle bracelet. I think that's the register. We can get around that privacy stuff by just doing it. I'll be the first one the register. I'll register do it that way, and then education and.
I do believe that there has been a bit of a shift between interstate police. They've done our information share now yeah, yeah, is correct.
Policing is always evolveding they're trying to improve. No one's going to policing policing too stuff up, so everyone's trying to make it better in policing. And yeah, there's no one if you've seen with the police that you've come across, attending crimes like that. No one wants to attend crimes like that and the impacts on them, So everyone wants to do a better job. I think we're understanding domestic violence on the national level. As you said, the federal
government have got him. One of the impressive people I had on the podcast. She was a police officer, but she was also a victim of that coercive control and domestic violence and all that, and it was really interesting the insight. And she's thinking, I'm a police officer, how can I be a victim because and I think a lot of people think that way, and then really dawned on it, Well, I am a victim.
I'm one of.
These people that I go to help. And she's got an interesting insight into policing and what can be done on the domestic violence. So we've all these people working. You sound like you're getting a good team around around yourselves.
We are well And I mean, like I said, we just decided to have a conversation managed to get governments and people to work together. Here in Queensland. We've managed to get because we called a bit of a round table or we wanted to learn more about courus of control. We formed a little meeting thing once a month where we held cours of controlled dinners and did separate things. So other foundations they did some networking. We started collaborating.
I started. We managed to get the foundations working together where we find here in Queensland and they tend to fight against each other because they want the money, they want the thing, And I just think, how why we've all got the same purpose. We just got that common goal. Can't we worked together?
I think the beauty of you two and you flagger it as if it's a negative ice sad, there's a positive. You gone, we're just average people and you cut through the bullshit and go it's not that complicated. So you don't ever think things. You just well, why don't we do that? And I think that's what resonates with and I.
Think what woman said to me too, from one of the foundations. I got up and said something one day. She said, geez, I love you lord. You just don't beat around the bush. You just say as it is and then sit down. I said, Well, I don't want to drag on and do a thousand words. I just want to get my point across. And I'm just a simple person. So that's how I just want. I think life should be simple. Why should it be complicated? Well, we over complicate things.
Too much, I agree, And that's the beauty of what you guys are, what you guys are doing. So I just want to firstly thank you for coming on the podcast and sharing your story because I know, no, it's not easy. But when I say people like you inspire me, I mean that because what you've overcome and how you've tried to steer your life in a positive direction, full credit to you, and the fact that you've stayed together.
You must go through some tough times, and yeah, I can see the support I saw at the moment I sat down beside you for that lunch, that you had each other's backs, and it's beautiful to see.
Yeah, I think we always have them, have we talk. We talk, yeah, most of the talk.
You can't say that, don't be disrespectful. Yeah, all right, thanks guys for coming on. And let's stay in touch and let's if I can push anything from the media connections or whatever, let me know and vice versa.
Let's stay in touchy.
Good, Okay, see your Lloyd s Sir Hi Gary. I was a little bit worried about doing this podcast with Lloyd and Sue. It's such a heavy, heavy topic. They inspire me how do you overcome a tragedy like that? They are inspirational people. You can still see the pain it'ched on their faces and the emotion that they carry, which is understandables losing their daughter and their three grandchildren. But what inspires me most is the work that they're doing to try and make sure this type of thing
doesn't happen. They are instrumental in campaigning for coercive control, which is such a powerful legislation that I think will make a big difference in the domestic violence space. Really impressive people, just good people, as they call themselves, average people. I think they're a little bit above average. They're inspirational and just a tragedy that's happened, and that happens too often in this country. A domestic and family violence