The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective sy aside of life the average person is never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world. Today, we're sharing a story that can't be forgotten. In Part one, I spoke to investigative journalists Douglas Smith and Emily Oli about how the authorities responded to the deaths of Aboriginal women, about how Indigenous people in Australia get treated differently, including
in homicide investigations. Now, I want to take this story back to nineteen sixty five. That year, the Freedom Bus Ride was led by a young group of activists demanding Australia pay attention to the racism facing Aboriginal people.
It was a ride which didn't so much break the shackles as it did open the eyes of Australia when it came to Aboriginal people. Racism and segregation was very much alive in country New South Wales. Nates wouldn't be allowed to work in the shops because they're not tiredy enough.
There's a lot of them here, that's Scott good jobs in the cafes, and then they just won hold them.
In nineteen sixty five, the great Charlie Perkins tries to bring these issues into the light.
A lot of US Pradidans talk about, oh, yes, we want to give the abergine affair go. Then it's full stop and it's usually forgotten. They never go on to say, look, we've proposed we give such and such a scholarship to a number of abergees. Let us support average and organization, Let us vote in favor of any legislation which allows for the elevation of the Abiginal people. They don't do these things. They talk about it, but never do it.
Many Australians didn't think there was discrimination in their country in the early sixties. The Freedom Ride was an attempt to show Australians what was really happening in their own backyards every day. Not only was their segregation, the state government was deliberately evicting Aboriginal people from their missions and stepping up it's assimilation policies.
They think that the white man's eyes and what they are.
What you just heard was media coverage of the nineteen sixty five Freedom Bus Ride. Today, I had a conversation with Aboriginal elder and activist Lyle Monroe. Lyle was a young Aboriginal boy in Maury when the bus came through town. Lole, tell me about your memories of that day.
Well, it was as clear in my mind as as ever ever was. It was like it was yesterday. Is real history. It's something that happened. There's something that affected our lives at the time. It still still affects our lives.
At the time. We were against still segregated on the Mission or the Aboriginal Reserve actually known as the Mission under the notorious Aboriginal Welfare Act, which was amendment to the previous Act of the Aboriginal Protection Act, which kind of kept our parents and our grandparents locked up on these out of sight areas, out of town, out of sight.
The respective policies at the time, I think under the Aboriginal Protection Act it was a policy of we were expected to die out, and then the introduction of the assimilation program where it was advisable for Aboriginal people to move into town and to live somewhat of their lives
in the white community. It was a very serious time for Aboriginal people because we've still not yet been recognized as citizens of the country until the referendum in nineteen sixty seven, which is two years away, and Aboriginal people were subject out of town, out of site, on places we referred to as concentration camps. Each manager, each mission at a manager. We had two managers because the the size of our mission and the population. We had a
manager and assistant manager. They had the right to control the lives of Aboriginal people under this particular act, the Aboriginal wealtha Act. But in more we'd like to think we were double wheremy because of the council there during these bad days introduced a local by law to the Local Council Act, which restricted the presence of Aboriginal people right throughout the town. It had particular restrictions on places
like the town hall. We had all these kind of experiences going on that we tried to come to groups with, but this act said at all. This act was an actual fact. If you looked at the history of this act, you'll see that it was a template for becoming apartheid system that operated in Queensland and they moved to South Africa.
I think in the mid sixties.
The restrictions from the town hall was based on the fact that we were deemed filthy. The particular restrictions referred to the dining room section of the town hall, all areas in town that served food. In fact, all areas of the town took advantage of this peace of legislation because it openly gave the town the right to openly discriminate against Aboriginal people. And that process continued until Charlie and the Freedom arrived in nineteen sixty five.
There's a lot to unpack with what you just talked about, and I don't think people really appreciate it. But what we're talking about is in your lifetime, and you refer to the mission or the reservation where your movements were restricted. Just explain that to people, because I don't think people really understand. And you mentioned the part and we all know what happened over in South Africa with that, but we had it here in this country in your lifetime,
and I don't think people really appreciate it. So we'll just deviate a little bit from Charlie coming in with the bus. Just what life was like for you growing up in the town like that, where you excluded from locations for no other reason other than the fact that you're Aboriginal.
Well, we weren't completely excluded. It became a bit of an embarrassment when we got to high school because we had the mission school that went to sixth class. It had a third class accepted level of education. But fortunately enough our teachers reached the frontier with that and continue to treat our school like the normal schools when we got to high school. Of course, most of us were good swimmers. We had some experiences there, like myself with
about six of us. One day, two young people who were camping down from the mission the baby felling the river, and we ran down there and dived and pulled the baby out.
Unfortunately it was too.
Late, so we've had those experiences. Some of us were reaching into the high school swimming team, so every Wednesday afternoon a sport. I mean most of us was encouraged openly to take cricket and vigoro as a sport to avoid the embarrassment with the restrictions from the pool. Were restricted from the ovalves too, but at the time that was kind of come and go kind of thing. You know, we could go a be able to play Saturday morning football, but after that we'd have to vacate the area in the town.
You talk it, you lived it. It's hard for me to even comprehend it. So yeah, you play football and then okay, well you're not welcome back to hang around. You've served your purpose, you've played football, and then go back to the mission. All the reservation. Is that what we're talking about.
Well, it's spelled out loud and clear with the return soldiers, I mean most of our soldiers, because they weren't citizens of the country until sixty seven. The only way we could enlist and most all of our all of our soldiers were volunteers. And we see in the case there where all our soldiers returned basically directly sent back to the missions and no recognition of their role that they played in the You know, all the wars. Our men volunteered with all the wars, but our people were we
weren't allowed. I mean, these same soldiers weren't allowed to drink in the RSSL clubs.
At the time.
There was no soldiers settlements supported to our soldiers. There was no pensions supported to our soldiers. In actual fact, the soldiers, the Aboriginal soldiers from Queensland, we paid no money to be involved in the in these these international issues. That was the indicator that we weren't wanted. Living on the mission some three k's out of towns are out of town, out of sight. We were segregated by a three foot fence with a barbed wire structure on the
top of it. Now, I don't know whether people can understand, but when you can actually high jump that fence and when you watch animals come and go freely and starts putting crazy thoughts into your head.
Even though we were young people.
I mean I had some personal experiences where I'd go up to the gate the entrance to the mission and sit on the gate and the middle of the night and just wonder what's the problem, what's out there, what's on the other side of this. So at times I'd kind of sneak down the gate and stand on the other side of the gate, and I used to seek the misself, well, what's the difference. However, that was the
fence that restricted our presence on the mission. When we got to high school, some of us entertained the idea in trying up with the swinging team. So on Wednesday afternoon, for instance, we'd arrived at the pool. In general sport, Aboriginal kids would be signaled out. We'd have to wash and scrub and the showers before we went to the pool.
We had to have the.
Trunks that the pool supplied. We couldn't wear ron swing trunks. And then we were allowed to dabble around in one corner of the pool. This was with the duration of the afternoon, and when that three o'clock bell rang, then it had come on the llowd to speaker all Aboragemal children remove themselves from the pool. That happened on a regular basis, on a weekly basis. However, we persevered with
that because at least we were in the pool. At least we were in the corner of the pool, and they stood there, the teachers, and kind of made sure we stayed in that particular corner we lived. Under that legislation, we could go into town. We'd had our own bus, the bus to pick us up, drop us into town for movies, and then back on the bus back to the mission. The same with shopping.
You mentioned the mission manager or the manager on the mission. Who did that and what was the role of a manager like restricting your movements and overseen.
Well, under the Aboriginal Welfare Act, the local serge and the police station was actually the pursue administer minister the act. Managers and their wives were hired to control the lives of Aboriginal people on the mission. So to gain access to the mission, you first of all had to pull up and report to the man. To leave the mission, you had to report to the manager. But the manager
and their wives. The only medication we were ministered by the manager's wife was stuff like pecure crameman and the ointment or whatever, skin rations and stuff like that. But this segregation also applied to the hospital.
Next.
Fact, the hospital segregation was the thing before Charlie Ham arrived in sixty five McMaster ward. It was the segregated section of the Maury Hospital where we were all born, and that we believe was the initiative for the introduction of that particular by law. We had also had an assistant manager and they were residents on the mission. The head master's premises home was a resident of the mission. So we had our own mission school for all the
wrong reasons. I don't know why we're not allowed Aboriginal schools now for all the right reasons, but that was a system. It was hard trying to comprehend it. I suppose when when we became of age, but the scars experience.
And.
I mean for one white man and his wife to have complete controlled the lives of some six hundred people, and this was the law. It wasn't an accepted practice. The racism around New South Wells at the time it was an accepted practice. But in Maori it was a legislative practice. They actually created the local by law. And I was surprising that after all that, the confrontations, and that when Charlie and them eventually left, when we convinced the mayor to rescind them the bye law, they then
reintroduced the by law. So Charlie them had to come back and demonstrate and do what they had to do then to have the bylow point finally scrapped forever.
Let's talk about the the Freedom Bus Ride and Charlie Perkins and I think there was twenty nine students from Sydney University and they traveled in rural New South Wales visiting towns that they believed there was discrimination and racism in the town and they went to, off the top of my head, Walgot, Maury and different places around the north and northwestern regions of the state. But the Freedom bus Ride people, yeah, we hear about it in America.
I think most Australians would be more aware of what went on in the Southern States of America with the Freedom bus Ride. But this was very significant and changed the way people look at the situation and identify it. Can you talk about the bus ride and what it actually achieved, where they went and what the purpose of the bus ride was.
Well, the only village we out of the bus ride the Freedom Ride was from the odd home that had a television and the ABC was talking about this bus that was traveling through New South Wales towns and they were in Wolgot at the time, and we saw the demonstrations the outside the Ursel Club.
And the swimming pool.
On the way between Moore and Wolgot, the bus was run off the road by white hooligans that basically chased them out of town. The bus was run off the road. It ended up in the in the gutter on the side of the road. Some describe it has almost been fatal some of the students. There was quite a serious situation, but there was also a couple of carlos of young Murray men that also followed the bus to make sure that they were safe.
They arrived in Maury.
I think it's just so hard to understand that the reasoning and.
Why the bus got there.
But we were home on the mission and I think it was about maybe four o'clock in the afternoon. We were just leaving the mission swimming pool. This bus appeared at the gate and it wasn't a tourist bus. Because we were quite used to tourist buses. They'd give us, you know, check out sixpences and lollies and that type of stuff for us. This bus had an aura around about it in anticipation. We were kind of amazed that this time of the afternoon that a bus was coming
onto the mission that we didn't recognize. We recognized the skool bus, the town bus, you know, the tourist buses, that type of thing, but this bus kind of had this strange aura around it about it. So we watched this bus travel slowly around the able coming to the manager's residence. They never pulled up at the manager's residence. Hello, what's going on here? Because everyone had to pull up
with the manager's residents. And this bus pulled up and the doors opened, and there was this handsome black man okay to the front of the bus and just simply said, we'd just like to come in have a swim in the town bars. So eleven of us, of course jumped on the bus, not knowing what was going to happen. Of course, drove to the swimming pool. Charlie and the students started to negotiate, you know, our entry that wasn't acceptable because of the Bye law. They basically lived by
this by law. Everything their excuses for their racism was all tied up in this by law. But keep in mind it was also a new kind of learning for us too, I mean, being segregated and then being segregated from everywhere else and I mean your thoughts were segregated, whole, your whole being was segregated. I suppose it never had the effect and I said it had on our parents and our grandparents because with their generations it was an
accepted practice. This is how it is, you know, this is how we are.
Nothing is going to change.
We're subjected to this with it. No one's going to question it because of the authority at the time they were taking the kids away all this type of stuff. The policies were their integration you know, to smooth dying pillow quote unquote, then the assimilation program, which was entirely different based on you know, they need to assimilate and
to be like other Australians. But what intrigued me was being boarding school and coming home with me uniform on and the bus had dropped me at the mission gate. I'd get off the train, get a bus, a school bus had dropped off the mission gate.
Then I have to report to the manager. I'm home.
And when I was leaving it, I have to report to the manager to go back to Delasell.
Yeah, your parents and manager.
Yeah yeah, So and the managers had their rule was strict. We had some managers that were quite acceptable. There were other managers that were tyrants and completely controlled the situation. They had the right to walk into a home and inspected at any given time. They had the right to do whatever they wanted to do with your home. They could move you from your home. Those who accepted the dog tags we call them, like the freedom papers that
were given to particular Aboriginal people. That sort of stuff was in the process. Rugby league was starting in our communities, which was basically the way out for a lot of us young people, because our day was like while whilst the parents were shopping, we were playing set him on competition and with that we're allowed to go to the day's matinee after the after the football, and but it was always back to the mission. There was always that
bus or that car going back to the mission. There was always that gate closing behind us, and there was always that three three foot fans.
To contend with.
The way you're describing that, it's not this similar to being in the prison. Yeah, someone that can come into your home at any time without reason, move you at any time without reason, allow you in or out under their control, it's.
Yeah, and the only food source available to us was there was a Lebanese family there called the Lurhoods, who I would think that a lot of our people would have been in serious trouble if it wasn't for that family. They breached the restrictions and made sure that you know that they came down to the mission again against the manager's wishes, or they'd park outside the fence against the manager's wishes, and they bought the necessary food like bread and butter.
And yeah, you.
Mentioned that the other day. And it's ironic, isn't it that well leving those immigrants are the ones that the tree did you.
Yeah, as humans, and we're still very much associated with the Lohold family, same as we are with the Perkins family, the two families that played a big role in a big part of our history.
In the town.
And that's how that's basically how we lived until Charlie and the Freedom Right arrive undred and sixty five.
We've got this going on in our country. Do you think people are aware of the history of or understanding.
Well, Sadly enough, the majority of Aboriginal people are not aware of this.
Part of our history.
So this history has been kind of shoved in the corner and the two hard basket, and where's those who witnessed those that was witnessed it. And there's still hundreds of us alive from that system, and we still bear the scars. A lot of our young people, particularly in our town. A lot of the young people are now starting to come to grips with the fact that it happened. And of course it's a lot of mus spellbound that this kind of thing actually happened to their parents who
were still here. And so keep in mind at the time, Maury was also divided up the community out of the black community, like we had a place called the Mission, the Middle Camp, the Top Camp, and the common Now the Top Top Camp were Aboriginal people that came in from Terry, Io when they closed the mission there and then I think nineteen twenty three nineteen twenty four, some of them went to Boggabill and Mung and Dai and
all around the place, but most settled in Mare. And the Top Camp was on the riverbank with all their huts and the type of stuff with dirt flaws in that they had an invisible fence around them. Because no matter whether we were all Aboriginal people were subjected to the Aboriginal Welfare Act. That was the controlling factor and that stayed with ustil nineteen sixty seven. And like I
said before, that did night our whole existence. So up until nineteen sixty seven, no Aboriginal people in this country theoretically never existed.
You're considered a citizen now, Your parents or the people before you went through life not being considered a citizen and managed under the Flora and Fauna.
Well, whether or not that actually was the case of whether it was just a myth that covered the situation at the time, but we certainly weren't counted in the census, the statistics, and I think it was more or less an accepted fact that we were then treated and counted the most of raw and foreigner.
So people talk about the nineteen sixty seven referendum, what exactly did it mean?
Yeah, basically, you gave the federal government the right to enact laws will be up of Aboriginal people. The confusing part was that we were led to believe that was the first time that Aboriginal people were allowed to vote, and that was the myth that company that that narrative all the way through until we'd realized ourselves.
Looking at the bus ride the other towns, and it got a lot of media coverage at the time, and it was significant, and yeah that's scary. Yeah, well scary in a lot of ways. That it was challenging, the challenging the norms, and as you know, I think you spent your lifetime fighting the systems on different things. And we'll talk about the impact that it's had on the
direction of your life later. But do you think that was an awakening looking at it now sixty years ago, the Freedom Bus ride, and it was a significant part in the history of this country.
I don't think it was an awakening as such. I think it was a realization and understanding that these things were going on. That we were aware of it, but we didn't kind of comprehend it. I mean, the learning process with us, other than the normal education process, was the way we lived the things that were happening. You know, the Mission bus came, took people to town. We go across the bed area every morning with our little billy cans to get the milk. That was our access to milk.
I understand what you're saying there, Love, because as a kid, what's what goes on is what happens. You don't question it. Yeah, well you're accepting it. You might understand it, but okay, this is just the way the world is.
Well, it was pretty kind of daring to like we'd have our little billy cans every morning, about twenty of us, and we'd all travel. But it became pretty dicey and wet weather because you had to dig your toes into the bank and won't be tired if you spilt that milk. We had a system if someone spilt their milk, then we'd all kind of top it up a little bit, you know, to get it all level again.
But no.
Spilling the milk was it was in the ship cardinals in.
Yeah, you were going to cop it or someone was going to cop it, but but that was a normal system to us. It was though we didn't it was any different to what was going on in the town and around us. But the Freedom Right also awaken some of the young white people too, because what was going on Saturday Morning Camp in particular, was race relation. I mean, is the town kind of come to grips with this important issue, and our young people were basically breaching all
these frontiers Saturday morning football. I mean, we've still got friends from way back then. I mean, why didn't someone ask us about how to deal with this race relations question in Mauri? Maybe some of us kids would have had some answers, even trying to explain to our own children about what happened, and then watching the impact and when our young people start realizing, like how do you survive?
How to you know? But we did.
We've always survived for some reason or other. I mean, it was hard. It was always straight back to the mission. It was always from the mission to there or straight back to the mission. But we survived somehow we've survived. But the impact of the Freedom Ride has still not been realized, simply because it's not a part of for instance, education curriculum and that part of the that that part
of the country, no one talks about it. It's like if it's taboo, and Aboriginal people were taboo, but now the narrative their stories taboo because it reconnects us with the way we were simply the only the only thing we've had these discussions with the white people.
That we grew up with.
It wasn't something to be looked at and to be examined for all the wrongdoings.
It was something that just happened.
We we you know, our lives were controlled, so it must have been good for if these decisions were made for us, they must have been decent decisions or whatever. But there was a lot of bad decisions. I mean, we weren't allowed information. Like when they took our brothers and sisters into the end of the stolen generation system, we just realized they were gone. No one officially told us. So a lot of information was kept from us too by our parents because of what it was and the
effects that it would have had on us. So at times, our parents were shielding us all the time from these phenomenons that were affecting our lives that we weren't aware of.
Ye And you can understand that as a parent, that's something that you would do. But the fact that the significance of the Freedom bus ride, you're saying that it's not something that people widely know or the details of it. It's something that we all should know, shouldn't we Well.
It should be part of the educational cricket on It's a history that I mean, you know, we're flooded with the white history. There's nothing about us other than our existence. Sometimes it's hard to sit down and explain to your grandchildren. But again a lot of this, a lot of that information was kept.
Promise, do you think do you think what happened with the bus ride and you saw the results from it or the interest, does that shape your life? Because you know you're described as an activist and you've been at the foreth front of a lot of change on indigenous aspects and the way things are handled. Do you think that gave you a taste or shaped you in the door?
It certainly gave us an insight into the results of the direct action at the time, the Aboriginal Advancement groups suggest forming and in more e the Aboriginal Advancement Committee was in actual fact the more emissions Skilled PNC association.
So that involved into the pritical to fathom at all, as they're probably the bravest people I've ever encountered in my life up until later on in life, but just to understand that a group of young white people, thirty of them in fact students with this young black radical I mean their lives could have been cut short directly coming out of Sydney let alone going through places like Dubbo and Canable and Gila Gumbo and Walgut and then eventually coming to Maury. It took a lot of guts,
It took a lot of intestinal fortitude. I mean, this area is still controlled by the Country Party, the National Party Blue Ribbon seatry throughout northern New South Wales well seventy four years of my life. So a lot of the racism, it was part of the system. White people could do whatever they wanted with us. There was no police thet to predict because there was no law there to protect us. So we had to be very careful
and at the same time being aware of it. When we started being aware of it and being careful with it, to realize our parents, in all the difficult as they were facing, were still shielding us, you know, from this bad stuff. And it wasn't a matter of our parents
teaching it, teaching us this stuff. It was a matter of us evolving and finding out ourselves and it just became a part of our education that But at the same time you tin to come to grips with yet it's still happening to us, like why doesn't anyone say something about it? Why doesn't someone do something about it, and it's never happened. We had the same situation now I talk about the cancelated deaths in Maury. No one
seems to be interested. I mean, at the moment we're doing our history and eulogies in Maury, but it's another phenomena that's affecting our groups and our families and our nations. Were seem to be always shoved in the hard, hard basket part of the eyes, you know.
And so it's a shame that we're sitting here talking about something that happened sixty years ago, and now sixty years later we're talking and there's still issues that have concerned for you.
I shed a few tears there the other night. I mean that town turned out against us. There was only us, eleven kids and the students. There was no Aboriginal growing ups or anyone. And to walk the gauntlet, you know, about twenty yards from the pool door to the footpath, and to see Charlie beIN drug drug out that night, and you know, the whole town and the local hotel across the roads is empty, and these people came from
everywhere and there was just us and the students. Thirty what forty one of us, and they they they chuck to everything they could at us, bottles, rotten eggs, anything they could lay their hands on. I was trying to traumatizing experience. The eldest in the bus, right, I think, was the sister soone's owner. She was fifteen, our group was thirteen and the mean brother, and then we're twelve
and eleven, so we were basically kids. And to witness that it still gives me creeps when I think about it, but it was it was quite a terrifying experience.
Would imagine that. I would imagine that was extremely terrifying, like having that much anger and yeah, animosity directed at you for what. Well.
The savors place that night ironically was the mission the mission gates, you know, home again, So it was like from the frying pan into the fire kind of thing and reversing all the time. So but later on I don't think it affected us that much until later on we started realizing that's when that's when it started to kind of yeah.
Well, yeah, my observation of and looking at the things that you've done with your life, it's instilled something in you. You've got to taste for it. But you know, if you want change, there's got to be You're got to push. Nothing happens unless you push. And your life sort of been shaped by that. I think it'll be fair to say very much.
So, Yeah, the fire in the belly.
Yeah, as Charlie word lit, the fire in the belly, I think we all inherited that, some of us in Maria's shaped our future, particularly our politics. Basically after freedom in sixty seven, three four years, four years, five years, we all started kind of gathering in Sydney, all talking the same language, and then from there they say, the
rest is history. I mean, the formation of the average infrastructures call androids, marches, the resistance, the reminder of you know, the past is back there, the particular act acts that controlled us, and it needs to be discussed, particularly in country towns, because the racism in country towns is basically a big part of us based on having people scared.
Like sometimes when I'm sitting out talking with common Raids, it's even hard for us to at times to comprehend that we actually are still here, but we live, we live that light, and they're still reminders there, you know, and it manifests in ways sometimes that it can be sudden. Your action reactions can take a lot longer, but the impact when it comes, wow, you know.
I think the sad part with it, Lole is that you take your foot off the throttle and ye stop and it reverts reverts back. But yeah, you've set things in place. And when I say you, it's it's not just you, as you readily acknowledge, it's a whole range of people that have been fighting to make things a level playing field. Aboriginal legal services is one that comes to mind, and that's helping your people find themselves before the courts and having someone that can properly represent them
and not be disadvantaged. So a whole range of things. I want to thank you for what you've done. Your name comes up in circles I mix with all the time, and you've thought of in a.
Yeah, I've had some privileges one could call privileges, you know, all inspired by that, particularly that one night. Being one of the organizers of the average refrastructures and the national bodies, the.
Visits to.
The Representative voice to for instance, the Subcommission and Human rights there in Geneva in eighty three eighty four, I studied at a major international first people's program there in Strasburg for six weeks. I had some interesting people, have got some interesting friends. When comes to mind with Prince Mahato.
Sounds interesting, he's now king. Let's see of Lisuto.
He was an eighteen year old when we studied there at Strasburgh. Yeah, I've got some other interesting friends. Some are welcome, some are not.
You know, well, life's are full of interesting characters.
Yeah, Yeah, been some interesting places, seen some interesting things, a lot of heartache at times, but the artat's only there for you allowed some of the people. It takes a lot longer to realize that, you know, what we're talking about is what we witness. A lot of our a lot of our people, our age, have forgotten about
this scene. So you find yourself continuously in this educational program, this edit occational process of reminding your brethren that, yeah, this actually happened to us, brother, this actually happened to our sister. You know, we're still alive. Its hundreds and hundreds of us still alive to tell the story that never happened seventy years ninety years ago. They just happened in our lifetime, you know, and so hard to tell
the kids that a three foot fence. I mean, when you tell the obvious black kid in Maury that you were, you know, locked up with a three foot fence, they'd say, you're joking. That's that's that's that never happened. Well as your pop asking then asking mom and dad. You know, so, at times is very hard for us to even get the message across. At times we succeed. Other times the pressures are so great that, you know, we haven't lost the battle. The battle has just been kind of put
off for a time, you know. But then the realization that you were part of it and you were subjected to it, that then you have to kind of work out how you come to grips with that, whether you're going to let that effect the rest of your life, whether you're going to play the victim thing for the rest of your life, or you're simply going to open your mouth about it. We simply said no. I mean, all our struggles were based on and Comroy people and Gagery people. Our lingo is tied up in no. You know,
we're known as the no people. But that simple word, and that's what everyone expressed. Just simply said no. Charlie and them expressed it, you know, to the racism. No, we expressed it. No, it was all knows most of our lives, you know, and that's how we got in the door. That's how i've boys started to be. And then you had some great leader black leaders that came out of our struggle, you know, and a lot of them is still around.
I think the fact that you are telling the story and the way that you lived your life and I understand that no I'm not going to accept that is a very strong and powerful, powerful message. So that's why I wanted to get you on the on the podcast, to put it out there and tell the people the story. Now some people might go, I'm not interested that happened sixty years ago, but you're a living example of a person that's still alive but still remembers it and the
impact that's had on you and the difference. And I hope people do understand their history because the more more I learn, the more I'm just okay. It opens my eyes to a lot of things.
Yeah.
Well, it's like it's like these people, I think they've got the same problems. They want to go over and see other countries, you know, and they haven't been in this country. They haven't seen this country there.
Let's look in their way and backyard. Yeah, I think, but look, let's finish up now again. And I think it just shows a character of you're on to talk about the Freedom bus ride, talking about issues from sixty years ago and how you have to fight and learn to say no, and we're not going to take it. We're going to move forward, not let it break you. So thank you so much for what you've done throughout your life. Thanks for coming on to Eye Catch Killers,
and it's been great to have a chat. And I'm sure we'll be speaking again a lot down the track.
It's your pleasure, you got it. Yeah, cheers really seaside