Murder of Rachelle Childs: Kristy & Ashlea Pt.1

The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective see aside of life. The average person is never exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

Thanks, it's nice to meet you too.

Yeah, it's it's never nice going through what you've been going through. So yeah, my sympathy for you. A long, long, hard battle. But I'm happy that it's getting some media exposure.

Which certainly is yeah. Yeah, yeah, great.

You could miss it, miss it over the last week or so, so that's been incredible. Yeah, Ashley, welcome to our Catch Killers.

Great to be with you.

And congratulations on the podcast Dear Rachelle. Because I've been listening to the episodes that are available at the moment and i can see the work that's gone into it, and yeah, I've found it very interesting.

Thank you, appreciate it.

Okay, Now, Christy, I want to talk about just the impact this whole situation that's had on you. Your oldest sister has been murdered. It's over twenty years ago, and no one's been called into account for it. Can you just explain to the listeners, because I think sometimes we read these stories in the paper, but we don't fully appreciate the impact that has on the people that are left behind when someone's murdered.

I was only eighteen, I was very close to nineteen at a time, so it was It's definitely one of those things where line drawn in the sand in your life, where what happened before and what happened after, And yeah, it was it's all very blurry back then, but I had to grow up really really quickly. Luckily, me, mum and dad were so close, and you know, we always had been that it sort of brought us closer together in a way. But it's yeah, definitely incredibly traumatic for

Speak to people that have lost loved ones and on anniversaries or reflecting where would that person be now ten years down the track. And it's a big part of your life that's missing, isn't it.

Yeah, especially around Her birthday is the twenty sixth of May, and she died on the eighth, seventh, eighth of June, so there's like a two week period where you can't even really talk to me. It's yeah, yeah, I just sort of going to my little shell and I think mum and dad or dad passed away a few years ago, right, Mum does the same. But we always on those anniversaries at eight o'clock, there's a group of us that we just send each other a photo of a drink, a burban or whatever.

Sometimes it works.

Yeah, just you know, acknowledging that we all miss her, and yeah.

Yeah, it's a tough situation. Actually, you've worked on the podcast for the past six months or so. Do you get a sense you're an investigative journalist. Do you get a sense that when you actually get to know people and the impact that a murder has on those the family members and those close to the victim, you're getting a sense of that with what you've been doing researching and investigating this matter.

Oh for sure.

I think as a reporter for so many years beforehand, I did have some exposure to families that have gone

It makes sense because there is a disconnect when you see the headlines in the news and you don't really see the depth of it. I certainly was exposed to it as a homicide detective, but I know if you're working a long time doing investigative journalism with family members that have lost the loved one, you see the pain.

You do and you feel that pressure as well, more so because I'm so motivated and inspired by her and her mum and their strength, and they're so stoic and they haven't done this podcast because they want pity or they want sympathy. They've done it because they just are so determined to get those answers. And that's what motivates motivates them, and that motivates me.

Yeah, you can. You actually feed off the family's determination. So like, again, full credit to you, because I know it's not easy with you, Christy dealing with this and bringing it all up, but full admiration for you the fact that you're fighting for justice for your sister.

Thank you. I actually find it quite empowering. I think doing nothing is harder. Yeah, so this is, you know, this is good for me. This is I feel like I'm giving her a voice and I'm actually doing something rather than waiting for someone else to do something.

The shame of it is, and I look at this and not just speaking about Rochelle's case, the shame of it is that the authority should be doing things. A family shouldn't have to drive these matters, and sadly I've seen it too much in my career where the families are the driving force behind keeping an investigation active and ongoing, and it really shouldn't be that way. If the system was worked, something happens and then the courts, the police, everyone,

Yeah, I would hope that, you know, in the future, that the media and the police could work together a lot more closely, because the media is such a powerful tools, you know, much further reaching than just the police on their own.

Well, the beauty of the media and now had the I was going to say luxury. I'm not sure if that's the right word, but I've worked in both areas. But when I was in the police, I understood the power of the media, and the police can say it doesn't impact on the attention that the media gets it, but I can assure you if there's a tension from the media on a particular case, that case tends to get resource better. And also it becomes more thorough investigation, which is sad, but it's just a reality.

Squeaky wheel thing, isn't it. Really Feel sorry for the victims who don't have family or friends pushing for them.

Yeah, and quite often and I've encountered this quite often. The victims don't feel they got the right to push. Well, the police are handling this matter. And most people that come into contact in a situation like you have, you haven't had a lot of dealings with police, so you expect, you think the police are You can't challenge what the police are doing. You just got to wait till and hope that they're doing the right thing.

Yeah, you're right, And I think we were like that for a really long time. And I think it's other investigative journalists and other podcasts that sort of paved the way. Yeah, and you see the impact that they have had. My good friend Mindy introduced me to this sort of platform. Yeah, this is incredible.

Yeah, well, it's a different It's definitely change the landscape. And we'll talk more about the podcast and the impact. But I think before we start, can we just for our listeners that haven't heard the details, can we just explain what the circumstances surrounding Rochelle's murder was, Ashley, do you want to just give us some brief details?

Sure?

Well, on Thursday, the seventh of June two thousand and one, Rochelle left work at Camden Holden where she was a sales woman at this car yacht and they used to specialize in Holden's and because Rochelle was a whole and fanatic and it was almost a dream job right for her, and she loved it, loved a job. And she was going home back to Bargo, which is about a thirty minute drive from her work. We believe she made it home that night and she had plans to meet someone,

I believe, I don't know that she's ever been down there, yeah, other than when she was found down there.

Okay, So Christy went into a frantic search looking for her because they didn't know that Rachelle had already been killed when they were looking for her, because it was so far away, I don't think they attached the missing per and that when Christy went forward to the police and said Rochelle's missing, and it was so out of a character for her not to come home and not to be in contact with her friends and family. So Christy and all of your friends and family started to rally,

And so when the Rochelle's body was discovered, it was passed by that saw because she was partially burnt. And I apologize here, Christy, because I know talking about it is just yeah, it must invagal.

It's fine, We talk about it a lot, so.

Fine, Okay, Well, just so people understand the nature of this crime, that Rochelle's body was discarded in bush Land and set alight and someone was driving past in the early hours of the morning saw the fire and then I realized it was a human that was on fire. Was Rochelle's car found that location? Where was Rochelle's car found?

Rochelle's car was found at the back of the Bargo Hotel on the Saturday, so it had been there for a couple of nights, at least two nights they believed.

The police believed.

That the car had been spotted there on the Thursday night and the Friday night, and it was found and seized by police on the Saturday.

But I'll let.

Christy tell you that her reaction when the car was found, because from Christie's perspective, it was like a breakthrough because they thought, well, maybe the car has been found.

Soon we'll find Rochelle. So I'll let her talk you through that, but if you want, Yeah.

I just clarify, when did you realize Rochelle was missing? When did the concern Friday? Friday?

Yeah, so you owner to Rochelle Thursday night, but I rushed her off the phone because I was on the other line. Was that old fashioned a lean line to a friend, And then I forgot to call her back and she was driving home in time. But yeah, the next day she was supposed to meet Fiona, her good friend that she worked with, and she didn't turn up. Sopha. You went and tried looking for her, went to a house and she said, something's wrong. I can't find her.

Yeah, so explain that. So it's Friday, Friday morning, Where.

Was Friday afternoon?

Friday afternoon? Yeah, and you try the phone, you check all the places people she knows, and what was going through your mind at the time.

I thought that she'd crash the car, right because she liked to drive very fast.

I got the sense it will com okay.

Yeah, so that's what I thought it had happened. I thought she's gone off the road, she's rolled down the embankment. We've got to finder. She's, you know, could be in serious trouble. That's what I thought it happened. But when we found the.

Car and that was so it was the Thursday night and the car was found on the Saturday. Yeah, and at this point in time, you hadn't made the connection to what her the cur that Gira.

No, I hadn't heard about that. So because we went and put missing person's posters everywhere, I think the pub called said that there's a car. I can't remember what happened, but we went there. The car was locked up. I don't actually remember this bit, but I was told that my boyfriend at the time contacted the old owner and got a spare key. Anyway, we managed to get into the car, and I jumped in and sat in the driver's seat and went. She didn't leave this year because

Okay, so your assumption, based on that reasonable assumption, is that she wasn't the person that put the car there.

One hundred percent. She did not park that car there because she was She'd had cars stolen a number of times. She was really paranoid and that car was her pride and joy, and she would not have left that car Bargo Park.

Right.

Okay, so you've missing all of Friday, missing Saturday, the car has been found. You think, okay, we might get some answers. Now, this might start to.

I think that's when I knew that something right, Yeah, I know there's something serious.

And she wasn't the type of person that might have just disappeared for a couple of days, got caught up on something so out of the character. When did you find out that the incident that Gira On Sunday?

Two detectives turned up because I lived with her at Bargo, but I was at mum and Dad's house that weekend looking after their house while they are away. Yeah, two detectives turned up to Bargo, and I thought, oh, maybe they founder Well they did, but yeah, that's when they told me.

Can you tell us what that was like? And I've been at the position of the detective delivering that saw the news. What was said and how did you react and how did your family deal with the situation.

Well, I had a really big smile on my face, like hoping that they were coming to tell me something good. And it was Detective Ivor Davies who walked up and put his hand on my shoulder and lent him and said, your sister's dead. She's been murdered. She was found down at GIRoA, And it was Yeah, everything else is very blurry, but his face at that point is so crystal clear in my mind. And later on I did feel really sorry for him to be horrible to tell the family

Yeah. I picked that up from the podcast listening to one of the episodes of the podcast. How it was just too confronting for you to see that news given to your parents.

Yeah, and we kind of stayed like that too. We always we just grieve separately because we went at each other, but we still still talk about it all the time.

It's heavy, isn't it. Before we venture into what's been uncovered and what you're doing with the podcast. I think it's important that we get a sense of who Rachelle was as a person. From an investigative point of view. We call it victimology about finding, and that quite often helps with solving cases. But I think it's also important that we remember who she is. And so would you like to tell us about the sister you knew?

Yep, she was really outgoing in a way in some respects. She was actually quite shy, but yeah, really outgoing, really funny, really quick witted, really smart, really pretty, got a lot of attention.

She had it all going she did.

She had it all.

She was spawty. She could drive like you wouldn't believe. Yeah, she'd like to race cars on and off the track. Yeah, she was a real backer of the underdog. She had a really good sense of justice. And yeah, she'd always stick up for people if she thought that they were being hard done by, and she was always there for her friends. She'd call people out on their shit. Yeah, she was awesome. She was really a good She was my protected too. I was a little bit more shy

Right, So she was your role model? Yep, okay, we shouldn't laugh. Very very good role model. Yes, And what was the family dynamics like other brothers and sisters or no?

It was just us two. I'm very much like Dad. I guess we were both a bit more like Dad than mum. Mum's beautiful, Mum's very soft, where Rachelle and I probably had a bit more sittin us.

I guess three gang up on your mom with you gang up on your mom?

Yeah, we were stirs. Dad was really hard working. He's a business consultant and had a couple of businesses. He was gone most of the day. Mum would run us around everywhere to softball, cricket, piano. When Rochelle lost a license, Mum.

Was we wonder why she lost a license?

Yeah, she was twenty three and I think she lost the license two or three times by that stage.

Damn those highway control Yeah. Did she have dreams and aspirations?

Yeah, she she did. It wasn't long before she died that she went. I think she started to see that maybe being a news car saleswoman probably wasn't something that she'd do forever. And I was at UNI at the time. And she said, I think I'd like to go to UNI. And we were talking to dad about trying to get him to help us buy a few acres because we had horses. All right, okay, so you just hit that up alone. We can move out together and we live together, but we're only renting.

Yeah, that was a good plan.

Yeah, and it was great when we lived together. It was a great fun. And we used to make punch in the vegetable CRUs but we had no vegetables in the fridge, but we used to make punch so the punch would stay cold. It was feel so broke I thought we could have for It was great fun.

I'm just getting the sense I reckon you guys got up to a fair bit of mischief, but you don't have to declare that.

Well, yeah, innocent mischief.

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure there's some other stories that probably not fit for the audience at this stage. Actually, you've got to know the family. You've certainly got to know Chrissy. What's the sense of Rochelle that you get looking at from an investigative journalist's point of view and having a look into this family and getting to understand who Rochelle was well.

They still have a great sense of humor.

And I can tell that Rachelle probably would have had one too, because Christy's funny and it's funny they still, I mean. And I was telling her to tell me about the first press conference she ever did, and she said that they were trying to find little funny moments in all of their dark times, and before the first press conference on Rochelle's murder.

And said, oh, I should have got that facelift, you know, I should have got that chin fixed.

And I just, you know, I just laugh and think, you know, they're just just warm and friendly people and not complainers.

You know.

I remember when I asked, Anne, do you ever ask why I've lost so much? And she says, well, no, I don't ask why me. I just ask why, And that was really I think that sums her up.

And Christy as well. They're not I don't want.

PD as I said before, They're just people that are salt of the earth Australians and they want justice and I just really get a sense of that. And they're just the Australian spirit, you know, the Australian sense of humor, find you know, have a wicked sense of humor, but

Cut from the same family. Yeah, yeah, that's really nice. Thank you.

Well, it's yeah, I don't know where you find strength, And I think part of what Ashley said there, and that just amazes me, the human spirit where you can hang in there but still find some joy in life too likely what's happened. And I think that's so many times I've sat here with people or during my career as a homicide detective, and they've got to be able to just find some lighter moments, because otherwise the darkness just drags you down and down. Okay, let's talk about

They were so kind to us and they were all guns blazing, they were up all night, they worked their asses off and yeah, and they kept us informed the whole way through. They were actually they became like family with them all the time. I think they did the best they could with what they had, and the resources dried up pretty quickly.

So who were you talking about the local detectives that were working at the time.

Yeah, I have a Davies in Peter Street with the two that I remember probably the most. And then Mick ash Would in his team took over. I think a year later.

Mick Ashwood did a review, So I'm not quite sure how much he was involved in the leadership of the investigation, but he certainly came into it about a year later.

Yes, we've had a few different teams on it and they've all been incredible people.

Well, that's that's good to hear. Mick would have been unsolved at that time, I think when he did the review on the PABs. But okay, in dealing with the police statements, things like the public don't normally understand what happens, Well.

It's you know, six hours in a in a police room, being asked questions, being recorded, trying to remember everything. Yeah, and just because you're so out of your mind at the time, it's really hard to try and remember what happened, you know. And it's there are a few different statements that everyone did, a few different statements, but its hours and hours and hours and hours and hours.

Of And I find with people as close to the victim as you were with Rachelle, you're always second guessing. Have I forgotten something? Is it something some detail that I'm missing or is there something that I saw that I haven't bought up that type of thing.

Was that the definitely And the guilt, oh, guilt just not being there and not calling it back and.

The moment you mentioned that, yeah, you didn't have to be Einstein to work out that you'd carry that guilt with that. But and I see it so many times people what if what if I did this? What if I did that? The thing I say that it's you're not to blame, it's the person done the crime, because so many times I see so many times people beating themselves up. Why didn't I pick the person up at the railway station on why didn't I do this And it's such a cruel thing, to a cruel thing to carry.

Yeah, you carry it though I know.

I'm not a psychologist, so just do my best to make you feel better. But I do understand. But what I'm saying is you're not alone. There so many people are.

And you're right, there's only one person. We think one person responsible.

Yeah, and that's where the attention needs to needs to be focused on. So is there anything that looking And I'm not fishing for criticism here, I'm just asking is there anything from a victim of the family of a victim of homicide that police could do better, or the media could do better or anyone? Was there anything that troubled you?

Losing evidence is probably the main thing that troubles me. Yeah, because I just don't get how that happened.

What's what's the circumstances there?

CCTV that was collected, not watched and lost. Okay, the is human error.

There's no excuse for it. It's human error. I think we've homicide that Yeah, if you make mistakes, people literally get away with murder and it's something that shouldn't shouldn't occur. How long was either and his team working on it for.

I don't know, it's very blurry. Yeah, that the first twelve months is yeah, it's really hard for me to remember anything.

Was there any breakthrough in that first twelve months where you thought, okay, this is Yeah.

Every week it was like riding a roller coaster. The persons of interest that we went through. Every time they focused on someone, it's like, oh, it's them, and that's it's not and then oh it's them, and they kept us probably formed is probably too much because we rode it with them. Yeah, and it was horrific, and it was just a bunch of high hopes and you get your hopes up on dead ends.

It's difficult from a police point of view if you, like the family, want to stay updated. My mantra and what I was taught was that, yeah, at some point in time, I'll sit down and tell you absolutely everything I know, but I've got to protect the integrity of the investigation. So if I'm withholding something back, there's a reason I'm not telling you. But the balance is, yeah, the families deserve to know. The families should know. So it's not a black and white there's a gray area

Yeah, she was. She was really excited about getting a warp control for the weekend. She was really really pumped about.

That and not being the car buff that Rachelle is. Walking Shaw.

That's a v l SS group, ay, of course, top of the line commodore.

I have never heard of a walking Shaw before this.

You said it with geez walking Shaw.

Okay, well it was so Peter Brock used to do embarrassing bron so he did the v k SS group.

Ay.

There known as the blue meanies. There's white ones I think as well. That was the model before something happened with Peter Brock and Holden and then when they started making VL commodores, the vl SS group pay top of the line VL was Tom Walkinshaw. His name was put to that current instead of a VL Brock. Now it was a walkie walking Shaw and everyone called them walkie and they looked now I think you refer to them

Yeah, okay, yeah, probably worth a lot of money now, Yeah, and you reckon that Rachelle was the car that I'm seeing a lot of information call.

As she said, I looked up for her a lot.

Okay.

Most of our friends were boys growing up. There was a lot more boys than there were girls, So there was cars and motorbikes and yeah.

Yeah, so you said she was getting that car for the weekend alone of the car or.

Yeah, so she historically could pretty much take home many cars she wanted from.

The lot because she was working in that in the car.

Yeah, she brought home a black Senator once and beautiful cars. So yeah, she was promised a walking Shaw for the long weekend and yeah, and she was really excited about it. There was no walking Shaw. So in my opinion, that is the key to unlock what on earth happened, because she wasn't a liar and she was really really excited about getting this car. But there was no evidence of a walking Shaw coming into the lot.

Okay, And when she was promised the car, that was just information and she obviously told you or told the friends that that's what she's going to get around.

Then, yeah, plans what we were going.

To do cruise the streets. Yeah, music on loud. Okay, I'm starting to see a picture picture now, GIRoA. I think we touched on it before. It held held no significance to her that location.

No, we've got family at shoal Haven, but we didn't. Yeah, we didn't go down there.

Okay. Was she seeing anyone at the time or was she seeing.

Yeah, she was seeing a kind of seeing a guy named Lee.

Yeah, yeah, it was that was that serious? No, okay, it was.

Very new and it was just a big casual think she hadn't long broken up with Shane. It was her long term boyfriend.

Right.

Just on that, Lee made a statement to police and he spoke about Rachelle talking about how excited she was about getting this walking shaw for the Dune long weekend. So one of Lee's statements is critical to the case because she told him on the Wednesday night, which was the night before she was murdered, that she was supposedly

Well, a crime of that nature and the sense that I'm getting, you would be very much looking looking for people close to Rachelle at the time of a disappearance, so it doesn't surprise and there would be call in persons of interest. The barrier can be set very low. You can be a person of interest if you just know the person or came in the contact. Her movements on the Thursday night. Now I picked up on it

I'm not convinced with that.

I don't know.

I've never heard her talk about going to a Rebels Artie. I mean, they're known for being you know, people have a really good time there. But it's not something that she never went there that I knew of, And I found I found it interesting that I hadn't heard that from her because it was like we kept secrets from another But yeah, there were two of her friends that said that she was interested in going to the Rebels clubhouse for a party.

Yeah, that she'd have invited, that she'd been invited to one. We don't actually know though, what night that was, whether that was meant to be the Thursday night, because I think when people start getting questioned about it and it was months down the track, they couldn't definitively say which night it was, or whether she just generally said, yeah, I've been invited to a party and was planning to go at some stage or where this Thursday night party came from.

But what we know that the Thursday night.

They did look into it, and apparently there were no gatherings on at the clubhouse that night.

What you get with investigations like this too, is you get a lot of rumors and speculation, and you'll tell someone, someone will tell someone else, and it lands on the doorstep of the police and then we track it back. And I know I said that, but I didn't see it. I just thought that might have happened. So there would be a lot of a lot of work that was required to be done. Do you know why homicide weren't running the investigation at the start? Was that ever clarified with you?

No?

Right, Okay, we're going to break break the investigation down a little bit more detail because there was an inquest and we can talk about that. But I just want to talk about now, just jumping from the investigation a little bit too. Why the podcast. Well, i'll start with you, Ashley. What got you interested in this particular case?

Well, after I left Channel seven and I was a reporter there for about ten years, and had worked as a TV reporter for many years before that as well, and I just wanted to focus on one case because I was so used to just covering one story and telling my story for the television news that night, and I felt so limited, especially when I would do interviews with victims' families, and I just wanted to do more. So when I became it happened in my career that I just had a bit of time on my hands.

And his work, and I just thought of this case.

It was the first cold case that came to mind and the reason and it became apparent to me why I remembered it, and it was because I was twenty three.

Just thought it's worth a chat and.

See what she's see how she felt about it, and she ignored me.

Christy, I'll give you a rite to respond to that a little bit later, Okay.

She did.

I didn't know me message. It was sitting in the message.

Request, and I had it in my sort of diary back of my mind to say I need to follow her up. I actually need to get her phone number. So that was in the back of my mind. And then I was following the Lady Vanisher's podcast their Facebook page and someone from their Facebook page because that's another wonderful podcast that I follow and someone posted on there, can you please follow this page? And it was Christie's

And she checked.

Her messages and sure enough there was my message in her spam or wherever she ignores them.

And we just got talking and yeah, we spoke.

Then she told me that she was also talking to Headley Thomas and I had two reactions. One was of relief that this case did warrant a podcast in the sense that it was there was a lot of material, and it was one that would you could investigate. There was no barriers in the sense that someone was before a court or anything like that. And then the other reaction was, well, she's never going to pick me over Headley.

Yeah, he's a bit hard to match there.

But I did also think, you know what, if my interest in this case might prompt Headley to locker in.

Or something like that, I was happy about that.

But as turned out, Headley was very deep in his investigation into Brongwyn and I believe that that's why he couldn't commit to Christie and Rochelle's case. And he's such an honest man and was genuine about that and got back to Chris and said, I just can't give it the time your sister's case deserves. And I think he was.

He was very well. I said to him, I've been approached by Ashley Hansen. Yeah, and he said do it. You're being good hands and he's.

Right, Okay, Well, that's cudos to Headley and the whole environment with the podcast, and we refer the Teacher's Pet, because it's one that so many people have listened to and we understand what happened there. And I've had Hedley sitting here in the chair you're sitting in and said to him, from my point of view, and I think I'm entitled to offer that opinion. I know if he didn't stir that up, that would that matter wouldn't have been wouldn't have been solved, And the police might say, oh,

Yeah. One of my best mates, Mindy Yep, put me onto and she said, you need to listen to Headley Thomas and start listening to the Teacher's Pet. And you know, following Lynn Simms's case the whole way through it was incredible, the work that he did and the justice that he got her. Yeah, and I was all in, let's do it.

Yeah. It's actually you could probably speak to this with more understanding as a changing landscape in the media, isn't it. With the type of power that a podcast and the exposure that the podcast can get.

Game changing and because of the reach of the podcast, because there is so much power in how many more people can listen to a case, and it's such a personal thing, as you know, people put on their headphone. People can listen to a podcast while they're commuting to work or whatnot. And it's just such a great medium to put out so much information and to tell a story and get people to start following it. Because a TV documentary, if you look at that, is so much

And her mum. You want them, That's what I think.

You need that emotional connection, and you don't get that if you don't have family and friends talking about them and yeah, making them so relatable.

I mean, Michelle is so relatable.

As I said, I heard about her case when I was in my early twenties and just hearing about her love life and what.

She is to get up to and things like that.

It is so likable, lovable, but relatable.

Yeah. And I think with the podcast too, they don't have the restrictions that the more established media have in that they're not beholding to the police and so quite often with the police. And it's not all attacking the police, it's just the way of the world that a media outlet is going to respond to. If police say no, I want you to hold back on this because we're sitting on something, don't release it, they're more inclined to step back. Whereas a podcast it's a community involvement. It

Yeah, And I think that's really important. And I've said from the beginning, just you know, before I knew her really well, just to keep bash accountable. It's about her. It's not a story, Yep, it's not. It's not going to advance someone's career, it's not going to make a heap of money. It is about her and Ash completely understands that.

And that's that's the beauty of very different tam with a podcast. So yeah, the impact and what we saw with Headley, and there's other podcasts that have achieved similar results by putting the spotlight on it. What made you get to the point? And I suppose it's obvious when it hasn't been solved and it's twenty years down the track, But at what point did you think I've got to do something? When did you start looking at the forum of a podcast to keep things ticking over?

Well, that was twenty twenty one, I think so. My dad passed away in twenty twenty one, had brain cancer and towards the end he's a very smart, very articulate man, but also a real Aussie yobo at the same time.

That makes most interesting combination.

You always knew who was talking to on the phone with a business client or whether it was one of his brothers. You're telling two different people you can switch, yeah, but yeah, he he had the gift to the gap, suded Rachelle, and it was really cruel. His brain tumor took away speech and he couldn't speak I could imagine yeah, and yeah, when he was dying, I said, I'm going to get him, and that just because it was always

With the investigation, At what point did you start to, like I would imagine initially when the police was speaking to you saying we're getting a breakthrough or we're following up this lead, there would have been that feeling of Okay, this is going to work out. We're going to find

Every second day, Yeah, you kind of ride the waves it really hopeful, and then you you know, something doesn't happen or something falls through, and you go we're just not going to get anywhere.

So the years roll on, you've had the Yeah, the initial you said when Ivor was on it, it was contact all the time, being kept informed. When did that sort of sligh down?

I don't really know. I can't really remember. It felt like years and years and years and years and years, and then we went to coroner's court and that wrapped it back up again.

Okay, when how long after the coroner's court? How long after the urther did you end up in the coroner score?

Two thousand and six to two thousand and eight, so it was five to seven years after.

For the audience. A murder investigation invariably will run it that might there's no limit on the time. It might run for ten years before we think it's time for it to go to go to inquest. But generally, when you've exhausted all lines of inquiry on a homicide investigation at that point in time, and I'm talking general sense here, at that point in time, you go to the go to an inquest, and the role of the coroner is to find out the time, cause, and manner of manner

I?

And did you have hopes that the inquest might might reveal things? What sort of things we you're hoping it might might come out?

You would have been We just wanted to see one person in particular put under a lot of pressure.

Right, Okay, we'll get into that in part too. You provided a brief of evidence. Did you get.

Very much redacted brief evidence?

Right? Okay, we don't have a lot of it. What did that tea you looking at the brief of evidence of Corona's brief?

Well, we've got John Bryant's what do you call it? Summary summary? Yeah? Okay, yeah, so that that was really good to read. But we've only got a very small amount of statements, and they're not the ones that you you really want to see. They've kept those ones, which I've been trying really hard to get my hands on.

Now. It's been my research. And I do remember the case. I remember the case. I was in homicide at the time, and I also remember the location. There's a young fellow I used to go down to camp in the bush down around Giraua and so how I just sort of sort of a place that it was for me with and the circumstances of how Rochelle was Rochelle was found, So I do remember it during that time time in homicide. But with the with the inquest, it's been described that

Yeah? I hoped that it was going to be referred to the DPP.

Yeah, And that's if the coroner's holding the inquest and it gets to a point where the coroner believes that there's an identifiable person that may be responsible for the death of the victim, they can refer the.

Matter to them advice the police prosecutor, but they don't have to actually do anything.

How How did how did you find the inquest?

I take it we were there all day every day, Mum and dad and you know, other people here and there. But again I found that really empowering. It was like we're giving her a voice, and we thought we're going to get somewhere here. So we were quietly confident that something was going to come of it, and nothing did.

So yeah, it can be frustrating. Sometimes with an increase, people think it's going to break it wide open. But you also have a situation where someone believes something they might say in the witness box may incriminate them. They've got the right to silence and they can not answer questions, which can get frustrating, sometimes incredibly frustrating. Yes, I'm saying a look on your face, we might take a break.

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