Lessons, not life sentences: Jeff Fenech Pt. 1

The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective see a side of life the average person is never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

Jeff Fennick.

We're talking about the moment a troublesome teenager walked into the Newtown Police Boys Club and change boxing history forever. Jeff Faneck, Welcome to I Catch Killers. Thank you well on a true crime podcast.

Always a pleasurement. I love doing this stuff.

I love being able to share my stories and hopefully the stories that I share make people a bit of people.

Yeah, well, I think and the fact that the life that you've lived in boxing, like you know, in the in the hurting game, as they say, a professional fighter, there's a lot of lessons that can be learned. And I see a lot of people's lives have been turned around by pursuing like you did, going becoming a professional boxer, turning away from a life of crime. There's a lot of lessons that can be learned in the boxing ring, isn't it.

Yeah.

Well, I certainly wouldn't be here without boxing. But the reason why boxing because Johnny Lewis saying if I didn't meet Johnny, and there's not a chance that I would have went back to the gym the next day. I didn't want to go back to the gym nexto. I got beat up by somebody. Shit, and he's telling me I can fight. I'm not stupid. I'm not going back to get beat up. It was it was Johnny Lewis, who I don't know, had this magnetic force that made people fall in love with him to this day.

I love him.

We'll try and we'll try and work that out.

I know I've come into the orbit of Johnny Lewis and he has got some magic, hasn't he.

Yeah, to me, he brings out the best in people.

Yea, he makes you want. He's very very smart.

He doesn't tell you when to go to the Olympics in the first time we sees you, but he tells you if you keep working hard and you prepare to roll your sleeves up, things will happen. And he's very very smart in the way that he will set you goals that are rechievable and then when you start achieving them, then he'll know. He'll put you on that next level. And I don't think there's anybody better than him that.

Yeah, it's fascinating the influence that Johnny has and the amount of respect he's got in regards to you. It's not a fast stretch of the imagination on a podcast that if you didn't find boxing, I could have been talking about your time, your time inside and all the crimes that you've committed because you were heading down the path as a young.

Yeah, it wouldn't be I would like you wouldn't be talking about Yeah, I don't know where i'd be aware. We all most either still be in jail or I'd be dead today. So I'm just yeah, I'm blessed. I found a sport that I am that I was I think I was born to be involved in.

I mean, I never boxed in my life. I was seventeen and a half.

I never watched any but of course i'd heard of my armed Ali, But yeah, I never dreamt of being a fight. I want to be a first grade football and that's all I that's all I wanted to do.

That was your passion.

I actually saw you play at Cumberland Oval when you had your break from boxing and you signed with the NRL Paramatta and I think it was reserve grade and I'll see what happens when you took the field. So that was an experience. We'll talk about that later. I just want to ask up front, like you are and I think the eighties when you start having your success in boxing, Australia was devoid of sporting heroes and we're

Again, it was pretty strange. You know, I don't think I was really ready for it, and I don't think even to this day, there are a lot of people that aren't really ready to cope.

With that stuff.

Although we had managers and back back then we had nobody had John Lewis, you know. And you know, I made money and I spent it, and I have no doubt that I could have had millions and millions more if I was managed to properly, if I had somebody who knew what the numbers were. But like I said today, when I look at who I am and what I've got, I didn't need. I'm happy to have what I've got. I feel very, very blessed to a found the sport.

Well, it's virtually become folk law and we'll dive into the nitty gritty of it about how you got in the boxing. But having the profile that you do must come with a weight too, Like there's a good and the bad of having a profile. But do you feel the responsibility as a role model, Yeah, definitely.

So I've made some mistakes, but my mistakes all the more mistakes I've made just been guilty by association. I mean, I got charge with having a fight with the green grocer. I didn't even throw a punch. I was just stand there. And I've been pulled over for different things. And maybe back in the day they were the good things, because you know, the police would talk to you, you know, obviously because of my name.

Most of the times I'd get off.

But yeah, some of the things, Like I said, my wife and I were in the Gold Coast Valentimee's day, we end up having an agent because I was pouring as a special guest. I was pouring some girls champagne there and she's standing on her own. So we go downstairs at the back of a car park. We stand there to talk and she was pretty rowdy, you know. All of a sudden, the police go comes and we explained that to my wife and we have an am not nothing's happened, as I could see.

My wife was no normal.

We go outside, we stand back up and then three police cars coming and I end up getting arrested because you had done nothing.

So I'm going to stand up for myself, you know.

So like I said, there's good and bad, but like I think, the thing that I like the most to get what comes with it. But I have an opportunity now to give back, and I mean this beautiful outsgoing.

I accredit that to the people who follow me. Am.

You know, you don't own anything if you're not popular, So I am. I accredit this to Yeah, thanking the people for what I've done. But my main aim play is just to give back. And like I said, if I have to give back from experiences that I've had and made mistakes and hopefully people won't make the same ones, I'm happy to've gone through that roller coaster.

Yeah.

Well, you're very forthright in your opinions too, and that sort of polarizes people and steers people. The first time I saw you, you're actually helping the helping the cops. I had just joined the police and they had the dollar drug drug dealer in.

I was on the wall of me and Garf were they're.

Just out there.

If you look, did you see with me and Migado behind bars? Yes, the one below it there's the commissioners. Yeah, okay, well that's I was. I was there answering the phone.

So you know what what happened to be? For that?

My house was egged every day what the drug dealer has got? Yeah, yeah, well.

I don't have to do because I'm very energized. I've never had a drug in my life, never had a coffee in my life. After I spoke and just telling about not doing drugs, it said dobbing a drug dealer.

So I was the enemy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's funny. Well it's not funny, it's yeah, terrible.

It wasn't funny time they come every morning clean the eggs and shells from the house.

Well for what that's where if I was excited, So it was been following you your career and senior there, so I was excited the last time I was here at your place. We're down here standing in front of this wall, and Michael fran sees the New York Mafia capo was we've been out for dinner and we came back here. I think we were shaping up and you

I just seem to attract people.

Like I said, respect isn't given.

It's you know, I've a knock some of my doors and some of the biggest bikes and other people back in the days stand Smith and all.

They were friends, my.

Outlook and my way of life and shot out of everybody shake their hands and that's it, you know. Like I said, I don't know if I'm lucky run like you, But like I said, because of I'm the fighter, and everybody wants to be around. And when I used to fight, all those guys from the good old days were their supporting me and stuff.

So I was never going to turn my back on anybody.

If you know, like I said, to this day, if something happens to you along with you, Gary, I'm going to jar with him.

Brother. If somebody bashes you or hits you, They've got to hit me as well. I'm with you.

My father taught me one thing. When you go out with your friend, you go home with him. And I don't care who I am, or who you are, or where I am. If somebody's got the audacity's to say something to me, they're copping the back. You know.

It's the old Bible said an eye for an eye. Forget about this.

New bullshit world we live in there, you know, I go by the old Testament where it says, yeah, if somebody is good enough to say something, will do something, you give it back, and I'll give it back a lot harder than they can because they're cowards. They're just you know, people who get on keypad keypads and they think they're worried because they're tougher. So I said something to Jeff Enny, I put my address on there'll put my phone number, and they came say to my face.

Well, I think loyalty is something that's it's lost, and being a stand up guy is almost frowned upon these days. But I haven't got a problem with those values. And yeah, it's a funny world now, and you can get shouted down for those values.

But you know, Gary, some people say to me, Jeff, what did you write that on Facebook?

What would you say? Listen?

I said, they're good enough to say something about my family, I'm going to give it back. And if they don't like, oh you see this, will shut your mouth up and don't say anything about me at the start.

Don't listen.

The reason why it was such a great fighter is because I've got that switch, and when the switch goes off, I'm unbeatable, much as unbetible. I'm not scared of anybody in the world. So don't turn that switch on. And yeah, you'll find that eye side of me.

Yeah.

Well, I think loyalty is a strong value that's underestimated the importance of it these days. And I saw it in the police.

Yeah. I had a lot of mates in the police. But when things went bad for me in the police.

Couldn't believe how quickly the rats scurried, and people that I thought would back me up to the hip that I would have been prepared to back up to the hilp, I couldn't see him, see him the.

Just yeah, it's the same.

When you win to lose the fight, you Johnny Luis was famous to saying you when you when.

You walk in the dress room, you can't move. When when you're lose.

You and you get a dog by the tail, and when there's plenty of room in there, nobody comes in there. But like I said, that's that's part and past of what of the sport I'm in. But the great thing is because you're talking about lilting and and there's anybody more little to people than Johnny. Johnny am was somebody

Foot And I think that's the character of that He instills that that you feel it.

You definitely feel it.

And I consider myself very lucky having an association with him now and lessons that I'm learning. I'm learning late in life, and just he sort of reinforcing.

Think of this Kangaroo tools. They took him away there, but he wasn't and it wasn't for boxing. Was just for that company, was for that band. That he could sit down with somebody and make them the happiest guys world. He could sit down and if you were third best, he'd make you feel that you were the best in the world. Yeah, he had that ability in it. It's always great. That's one of those people around you.

Yeah, the most. Definitely your early early days. So you tell us about your childhood growing up before you discovered boxing.

What was What were you like then?

Well, I played football every afternoon. Soon a school was done, I first of all, I have a paper. I'd go and sell my papers to have some money, and then I would go to the park and play football with my friends. But I was one of the smart guys. I got out of school ten minutes early every day. So because I had this letter saying because my father was so sick with our lives, they had to be

Yeah, Yeah, that's where you always had that street smart, the rat, cunning and the starter as a paperboy and learn how the play the game.

And then, like I said, my father was so strict. When my friends would go out and do things that rob things, I never went with them. But after they would bring him back and hide them everybody in the US, I would go and get them and I would I would sell them, would do whatever I had to do.

So you were you're heading for a path of trouble because you did you did some time in the Yeah.

I went to the boys for a couple of months, and I went to or Wonder, Yeah, and I got out of there in a month because good behavior.

I mean we went and played.

Football while we're there and there. Yeah, I mean I was in a streaking. I used to go out and had fight sam. At that time, the street violence was really really bad. I was twelve, thirty years old. They made an example out of me. They nobody said it was actually me. I was just in the game. So yeah, they locked up quite a few of us, and then me and my brother, Yeah, we both got locked up. And like I said, for me, it was a great lesson. The only thing that I regret the iced to think, Oh,

My dad couldn't even travel.

And see my brother was in there, he was in Gosford, and my mom and dad through Hill And to any kid out there that we are, I think we're tough and stuff at a young age, and we think we can do this. I don't think about you think about the pain and hurt you put your mom and dad and your family through.

If I thought.

About that when I was younger, I never would have gotten on. I still would have been that little shifty guy that would try to live in allmal life, but I would never have put my mom and dad through what I've put them through. Ye.

It's a good message, Jeff, because I think at that age you don't even consider that there.

You just think you're tough around, your mates are good, and the world revolves around you.

Yeah.

Yeah, and then you don't realize the hurt and the pain you put your family through. And I've seen that later on in life. I've seen that as I was older, and some of those things that happened to me don't want to I wasn't even so I didn't do any and see my mom cry and that as I was, you know, in my twenties and stuff was really really hurtful to me.

Yeah.

Yeah, Well, you talk boys home, and there's an interesting side story. I think we've made a him and you know him real well, he's made the mine. But he was talking about a former professional boxer and a genuine tough guy isn't he.

He was one of the toughest guys ever came out.

There is something something about Nata.

Him and his group the Legends, and did a lot of damage to a lot of different people.

Even the police.

Yeah, yeah, well that's why he was in the boys home and he got three years and he was up at Gosford and he told me the story that you know, he was going down the path it would have inevitablely ended up in prison. And he read your book and that he said he stole your book. But anyway, I don't think you can get charged with still in the library book. But he read that book and then he started telling the other inmates or the people in custody and the guards that this life's.

Not for me.

I'm going to become a professional boxer. And that turned he turned his life around.

Yeah, I'll never forget the first day he turned up in the gym and everybody was talking about this guy. And I think he learned the same way I did. He sparted his named Pierre Karen, who was pretty good. You can be the toughest guy in the world, but a few and have never been punched. Reform if you never had to throw a proper punch. It was tough. So Nata had a tough first bar. But he just got better and better and he got more and more dedicated, and like I said, he was in the same plus as me.

He got a built in his first part. He went back because.

He knew that the discipline and everything else that took to become a good person, and being around Johnny Lewis was just again a drug.

Yeah.

That's the magic of boxing butt too, isn't it. Because you can be you think you're the toughest guy in the world, and you step into a boxing ring and you can get lit up by someone that looks like an accountant that knows how to fight.

Yeah.

Yeah, And that's it's a discipline that you've got to put into. And we'll delve into that because I think there's a lot of lessons that can be learned and the importance of police boys clubs and encouraging that.

I think we make a huge difference.

Forget forget police boys clubs. School Every school in the world should have a lesson every day or when a day it is, three times a week where they teach kids self defense today so they don't get bullied.

So they don't go. Man. You know what upsets me the most are the parents. Today. My daughter came home to me now and Tommy, I'm not letting.

Nobody, you know, bully my children or try to say the odds with things about our family. I mean, if they do, if my kids don't steak over themselves, then they're going to copy worse from me.

And they've got to learn today that.

Yeah, we've got to teach all our kids some you know form of self defense. The most powerful tool we got is this just by talking. I mean I've been with plosive scream that's where you want to fight them. I've been with police to say come on mate, you don't need and it's the hugest thing in the world. But like I said, if you are confident, you you know what you're doing well, you didn't need to do is talk and then it goes to the next stage and you've got no choice.

Yeah, at least you know what you're doing well.

Jeff.

I've tried to make this point because when I people think it's counterintuitive that a kid like yourself you get in street fights, you've been put in the boys home for fighting, and then teach you the boxing. How's that going to change? And the naysayers will say, well, you're

They can walk like the bullies. Invariably you must bullies.

Then they know that I know who to pick on who.

Yes, And that's Once you know how to look after yourself, you can walk away from a situation if you have to. You can back yourself up if you need to, but you can walk away from a situation.

Gary, I will never forget one of the things that Johnny Lewis told me. You said, I've taught you to do this in the room, not to be able to build it outside. And I've got some boys that I trained, I said, young kids who were bullied and they're a little autistic. May they leave this house the happiest kids in the world, knowing that they can look after themselves. Now, I love when they walk out. That's maybe the greatest

When I leave, they can't wait to get back. For me, it's infectious, So I love it.

I mean, if I had a million kids walk through this house to day, I made them leave and not they couldn't wait to get back.

I've done my job.

Well.

The fact that referencing back to Nada, the fact that yeah, just by the words that you had on that in your book inspired him enough to turn turn his life around, and that's you know, if you can change one person, it's something positive.

And from Nata come his son.

Train As has an amazing talent that I think and I'm sure Nada is this kind of father. Nada food for the world title and everyone I think has I think has can win the world title. So it's it's going to be interesting.

Well, the synergy of you having an influence in Nata, then training with him, and then now you're looking after his son.

It's exciting for me.

Like I said, I've been around Hassen his family since he was born, so you know, they're an amazing family. The mother, the father, and the brothers are all very very close in there. It's kind of pleasure being around that.

Rock solid human being.

Native from what I've seen, and he's doing some work with kids, troubled kids and all that, and I think it's so important.

Yeah, is this kind of guy.

But Nate has to learn that even in this day and age, if it's black, it's black, toad. But I've got to till later. You can't just say this as if it's black. You've got to shade a little bit. You got to let it come out because some of these kids just yeare they go home and say something, the family go and to all the school teacher. Somebody said something, and and you're not there any longer. But the other guys we need, we need the nadors.

Jeff, you might I'm laughing because you've probably were probably talking about the same story. But yeah, he gave someone some advice. It was very good advice. Was the kid appreciated the advice.

But the teacher didn't.

The world you can't say that it.

Was the best thing for them one hundred percent, but yeah, that's the world that. How did you end up in the New Town boxing gym? What brought you there to start with?

I went to the youth club with some friends that we were We wanted to beat up some guys that were being a little.

Smart, and downstairs we walked through. We went through all the There was a weight room downstairs, and the showers and the sewing room.

We're looking through there. Then we went upstairs. There was a wrestling room, and there was a judo room, and.

The last one was boxing. And they had a little glass window on there and said boxing. As I looked through, and we're looking for those people because the door was closed. I've seen a kid from my school that also played football with me. His name was Mark krub And I went, there's nowhere else to go. So I went and sat down and I wanted to watch him box. You know,

I was sparring.

You know.

Yeah. It ended up being the best decision, but not at that time.

It didn't end up good. I was winded and stuff, and Johnny's telling me how great I was. After I'm thinking, excuse me, this old bustard thinks some stupid may you got to come back tomorrow.

I think, yeah, yeah, I'll come back with my friends, and I'm not going to pretend I was not.

I thought Johnny's just lining up for yeah.

Yeah. I didn't want to in front of my friends make out that I was a count and say no, I'm not coming back, So yeah, I'm coming back. When I got home that night, I've had a share and stuff and filed my ribs and how I was winded and everything else, and I said no, I don't know.

The next day for some reason that Magne Johnny Lewis and.

I know, and I've heard you say countless times, and I fully get it that you were your success in part or a big part of it was driven by not letting letting Johnny Johnny down.

Ah, No, no, you wouldn't. I don't know. I think maybe more than anything else.

When I seen Johnny at the end of the at the end of the fight jump in there with I knew I'd done my job. You know, that's say this, But it was for him more than for myself, and my fam was for him more than anything. Everything else came after that when I seen him, and then the rest of the crowd stuff.

First my.

First foot forward to were to cuddle Johnny before I darn anything else and then the crowd everything else were there and I love that more than anything. To be this little kid that's got twelve and fifteen thousand people screaming for you and am rooting for you was real, really important.

It's funny with Johnny because he's such a quietly spoken person. Then you see some of the toughest and most notorious people in the town because I get around with him a bit, all pay homage and respect to him.

And then the hard ass sportsman.

He just has a way away about him like bringing probably bringing the best out of people.

Oh with that doubt, AM.

Met some of the biggest gangsters and whenever you want to call them in Australian history, that all have the utmost respect for you, and that that speaks for himself.

That's seem He's just an amaze me, Johnny. I'll never forget. We were in Dubbo and we went to the fights and in the fights.

There was a bit of an argument and stuff, and Peter mctwski fought and I'm walking down the street. I got my hands a bustard and stuff because I had a fighting because they had always.

Hurt me and a few of these people were swearing us and stuff, and Johnny said, Jeff, don't just ignore I'm not ignoring them, Johnny. That's said, Jeff, just ignore them.

There's gonna be fifty of them, and you know we're in double there's gonna be fifty, Johnny, I'm not worrying. So I turned around. I argued, all of a sudden, there's fifty and start chasing. Anyway, we get to the one and I couldn't run and won, so I turned around. I start fighting. And the first thing I'll say out from fighting this guy, this guy has a bottle and he's just about to smash over Johnny's head. So I run straight in front of it. Get the bottle cracked

So he fixed it and he made it.

Our driver, who at the time Brian Wilmot, drove straight back to the city that night. I had to play footy the next morning. So yeah, it was We've been through some exciting times. I'll never forget that time Johnny Johnny had these booths on say it couldn't really run too.

Fast, it was.

It was, Yeah, we've been through a lot together, and yeah, would I change anything?

No, I wouldn't.

I mean, of course there are things that you'd like to think that you could change, but listen, and what I went through through my time has made me the person name today Gary, and I'm very, very proud of all him. I get these wankers saying this that I stole to watch. I've never stole a watch in my life. To steal, We've got to walk out of a shop and I've never done that in my life. But I could charge with it. And again that's my name is Jeff Fennix.

So you got to the Olympic level in the amateurs. Tell us a little bit about your amateur career in boxing.

There's not really much to tell.

It was short and sharp.

I had twenty eight fights. Sam My represent austraight at the World Cup. I went to Indonesia, I went to the King's Cup in Thailand. I went to the World Cup in Rome and it was all within twenty fights. It was just like I said that, I don't know. I don't know if it's ever been down or if

Didn't stick up for me, wanted a little bit, didn't go and complain that he wins the fight.

And that was the judges, just the people that are not familiar with boxing. That was in the Olympics. So it's an amateur boxing. You won the first two fights and I think it was a quarter final or over three rounds. It was three rounds, and the judges scored the scored that you won the fights, which most people observing well the judges of the judges, the judges, and there's never been a jury before then they bought in

I just got another ring. Of course, I was greatly upset.

I got, you know, like, you know, this is what people don't know about Jeffenny, and we talk about Michael Jordan's and those kinds of people, and I got the same mindset. Let me tell you I went to the Olympics for one reason. I went to win a go and middle for Australia. Nobody gave me a chance. I had twenty four fights. I thought, guys that had three hundred, two hundred, one hundred and ninety fights. When I got there,

That that says a lot, doesn't it, Jeff about your mindset?

And I got on a plane the next day and went home.

What separated you?

Because yeah, going to the Olympics, a lot of people are day and that that's a highlight that you've gone there.

No winning goal, Well.

Most people who lose the Olympics. The highlight.

It's not them competing, it's the Olympic party. It's you know, it's walking in front of your your whole nation. I couldn't walk in front of the nation because if I it was stinking hotter than LA I.

Was going to be be weak. From my flight. I thought I wanted to win a medal.

At the end of the store, when they see me, put a medal around my neck and they're gonna understand why I couldn't march.

But yeah, and then like I said, well, my friend, now you can't miss the party. Just didn't big party.

We're gonna have all these goods. It's gonna happen. That's gonna happen. I said, yeah, I want I'm going home. You know I could never and I'll never forget that. My interview just before I got on the plane was I said this, if I don't let me win a gold medal, I'm going to go home and become world champion. And the reason why I said that was because while I was there, I asked out the tunst and stuff that I want to go home. I'm going to stay at met again. I went in four years. In four

So I turned professional. One hundred and ninety six days later, I was world champion.

Well, let's let's talk about that. Just explain the people that mightn't be for me. With boxing.

The difference between amateur boxing and professional boxing.

Well, there's a lot of difference, but back in the day it's it's completely different now, the amateur style today to what it was back in the day.

Were all those great Americans that won medals.

That in eighty four all went on to, you know, sign huge contracts because the amateur systems was.

An apprenticeship for you as a pro.

Yeah, now you can be the greatest avage in the world and get down there the professional boxes. Nothing like it, although it's changed a little, but me, I was always distanced to be professional. Like I was fighting three rounds as the amateur, but I was still fighting twelve sparring twelve fifteen rounds as an amateur. I was sparring every Australian champion that there was when I was like fifty one fifty two kilos and there I was always competitive

For the world time, fifteen three minute rounds. Yes, and I think I mightn't appreciate that.

Yeah, yeah, it was like yeah, So in my seventh fight, I fought fifteen rounds. Four more times I fought fifteen rounds. They didn't all go fifth rounds, but one of them went fourteen rounds, one went fifteen rounds. And you know, most of those fights I wandered round goo. There weren't fights where I went to a split decision or it was closed. Every fight after ID finished and went straight over and cudle Johnny's on, you had won.

You know, so going when you from it was eighty four the Olympics, wasn't it. Yeah, so eighty five. You turned professional late eighty four, a world.

Title in April eighty five.

Yeah, I remember it, Jeff. You know why I remember it because I had passed out of the academy two days before, and my biggest concern getting out of the police academy was whether I was going to be rosted when you were fighting. So I wanted to wanted to watch it. So it was on the twenty sixth of April, I think it was. It was, Yeah, yeah, two days after I got out of the academy, and I wasn't on night shift, so.

I was wrapped. Tell us about that. Because people didn't think you well.

The naysayers were saying, hey, yeah, you had limited amateur fights, you've had seven or six professional fights.

There is no way you can fight for a world title.

They didn't just think there was no waking five to fifty round me.

And let me tell you, I'm the first to put my head up and say the IBF was a new organization at the time. Setosi Hinhaki wasn't the greatest fighter in the world at time, but he was world champion. I had the opportunity and I took with both ends. I stopped him in the ninth round. Then you've got to realize I fought the Olympic gold medalist with a broken hand and went fourteen rounds.

One that won the Yes, Steph McCrory, who won.

The Olympic gold medal. I fought him, and of course he was with the great a Magus Stuart. They all thought they were going to beat me. I knocked him out in the fourteen round.

Prior to that, I thought a guy who was twenty six and oh who was one of the America's biggest names named Jerome Coffee, that win fifteen rounds and I beat him. And the only reason why I win fifteen rounds was because the referee was a cheat. He never let me fight my fight. He kept every time i'd get hi ho stop clean fire.

You know.

Yeah, I mean when I later on in my career, when I looked at a few videos of him, it was the same referee riffed him on quite a few occasions. So, yeah, things in boxing were corrupt in and they're still corrupt now.

Like they didn't want me whin. They never thought I could win, you know, And when he came.

Here, he was this cocky guy walking through with a big Master Blast thing and saying, now he's gonna knock me out.

I can't do that.

Yeah, even when I had my first one, We'll go back to what you asked me, and nobody thought I could win that. He's had seven fights and he's never win fifteen rounds before. Gary Johnny Lewis put me through fifteen rounds and one hundred occasions prior to that. He knew exactly what I could do. He wouldn't He wouldn't have let me fight if he didn't think I could win.

Tell us your mindset, Jeff, because there's different levels in boxing, and I'm always fascinated by people that, Okay, I'm going to be the world champion. I don't care who you put in front of me. I'm going to beat this person. Seven fights in you got people, Yeah, the they sayers in your money, you're telling you you can't do it. Was there any self doubt that you had? What was the mindset you've got that going I can do this.

You remember what I told you early about people say something about me. It just makes me want to be harder and tell me go and.

Prove it wrong.

Yeah, and I want to show them, you know. Yeah, And you got to think of this too.

After seven fights and twenty eight amateur fights, I was nowhere near the fire I was when I thought Victor kalagious. I was learning every fight, so that for me as well as being a world title, which made me feel really really good, and it just made me get better and better every fight. If you look at that was my seventh fight, look at my eighth fight, look at my nine. Every fighter got better and better. People again, don't realize that. Tell me another fighter. I was the

I moved up.

I want the super being away chef of the world. I defended three times, moved up. I won the featherweight Championship of the world. I defended three times, undefeated, every in every division. And then I fight for the Union lightweight title. They give me the title thirty years later, but I wanted again. We're going to There's no boxing in history that back then that won four world title. I never won three and undefeated. I was the first

Take us into the into because I find this a fascinating part of boxing too. What is on in the change room before someone walks out into the arena. When you won the world title, Hawden Pavian, you're in there warming up. What's going through your mind? Take people into the mind of a box, you know.

To be honest, I'm this guy. I hate the national airth and being sung, I hate the introduction.

I just want to fight. And I was in there thinking, man, I can't wait.

To get out there, and I'll never forget that that that that is the only fight that I've been tired in Gary. You know why, because I was in there thinking. I was like, I was punching the walls. I couldn't wait to get out and I used up all this nervous energy. And I'll never forget Johnny's telling me to settle down some keep all that energy for the fight, but I couldn't.

I was punching the wall. I was, you know, thinking, this is this is my time and here during that fight, I got a little tired, and you know, every other fight.

That comes in with the experience too.

He's comfortable stage like that, not burning yourself and the training leading up to it, that you don't cook yourself before.

That's what people don't realize. That's where Johnny was great.

Johnny was this guy who just knew how to, you know, maneuver you into the right right position right at the time. I'll never forget when I thought it was was my first fight the drawer. I wasn't well a couple of days prior to the fight because I went on a run and my tits and them were there. So I stayed and doubled what I'd done, and I'm going up and down these hills, just showing him how how fit and how strong I was. Man, I lost a lot of energy and stuff. And I'll never forget how Johnny

It isn't And people starting to wake up to the science and now yeah it's changed.

And it's not just the science, but there are signs as well. Yeah, there are signs if you're if you're smart enough, if you know what you're doing, you know that the person that you're you're associated with. Johnny and I were like father, some best friends.

We were every He would pick up on your energy straight away, straight away, whether whether it was in the gym, whether we're having dinner.

Yeah, yeah, while we're talking, Johnny knew exactly who I wasn't, what turned me off and what turned me one.

That must have given you a lot of a lot of comfort as you're progressing your way through the boxing world having someone that you could trust.

How the funny thing is.

Going, like we're talking about this now and I am trying to look at my fighters, and I think that guy is going to be hard for him if we can get this. Well, Johnny did enough to do that. You know what, we had a we had a.

Matchmaker who put me in against Daniel Zarragozo.

Whoa who just lost the world title, who wins the world title years after from remains world cham Who's in the Hall of Fame day?

I thought in my twelve fidus, Yeah, I thought I was gonna lose. But I don't know. Johnny just thought I could be anybody in there.

You know, if you know the story to that, to the to the lead up, I must have had the worst leader of in my life because I've been having problems with my private life in them the day we have to get on the plane, I turn up and my partner doesn't, so I don't.

Sleep all night. I come whatever and ever whatever, and yeah, I still wonder fight.

I'll never forget in my boxing gear. I went to the airport to get on a I got on the red eye to come home to see what happened. But yeah, every happens for a reason. But like I said, some of the guys I thought at that stage in my career, and I say it's remarkable. I mean nobody, Like I said, nobody in the sport has ever done what I've done me.

Gary, Well, I think people now looking back acknowledged and accepted what you were achieving, and at the time people probably didn't really appreciate it because there was always that he's fighting this weightly starts fighting the American fighters, and then okay, well he's beaten them weightly fights and Mexican fighters.

When we talk about Agoza, seven years later, the great Marco and Toney Brera and and Morales fights him, stops him in the tenth round when he's eight years older than when then I bought him.

You know, I mean, and I won every single round against him.

When they ask him who the hardest fighters they've had, he says Jeff Fenick straightaway, you know, and you know when I fought him, I had twelve fights.

What what was the discipline you had to keep to keep progressing or maintain to keep progressing through that, Because I would imagine you've become world champion. There's pitfalls and trappings that come. You could be let me tell you when you can be out and about and everyone's buying your drinking.

I never went out back then. But when when you're trying to win the world title, you're the hunter. When you win it, you're you're the one that's getting hunted. So your hunted, and I was. I was blessed that I lost lots of my friends at that time because.

I was a recluse.

I ran in the morning, I rested, I watched days of our lives. I went and trained every afternoon, I rested, I had dinner, I went home, and a lot of my friends you don't come out with us anymore.

And I try to explain them.

Look at the at the results, look at my rewards for not doing I just done there and again.

I done that more than for myself.

For Johnny, because I knew that were the things that Johnny toime I had to do to be successful. So I hearing that he told me, you know, I done it. There was never a day that I went to the gym that Johnny said, did you run this morning? Did you eat properly? Because he just knew I was disciplined.

It's a trap, but isn't it. And friends, I've seen it, and you see with a lot of sportsmen or people just making a success in any area of life.

Friends so called friends. Sometimes you just took the words out of my mouth because they don't want you.

They're going to just take all those people that I thought my friends.

They weren't marry they yeah, they were wrapped when I went and gave them things, but they didn't want me to.

You know, I believe it makes them feel bad about themselves. Like it's almost like, let's keep keep this person down.

Man, Well let's try to bring him down. Let's yeah, come on, you're going to come out. Like I said, I want to explain to all my all my boxes today I'm explained. And listen, these guys you think are your best friends that are asking you to go out, they're not your best friends. These guys that you think are your best friends, and I know you want to diet and they take you out there eating and drinking.

They're not your best friends. They wouldn't do that to you. But that's life, and I mean that's I mean, like, listen, the greatest disease in the world is not cancer, it's not anything else. It's jealousy.

You know.

That's the greatest disease in the world. It's it's called jealousy.

I mean, and with that you get all this stress and all this other bullshit that that leads you to other things. But like I said, when you can sit down and know that you're around somebody that just wants you to have success, then you're very, very lucky. And I can only say without any doubt that Johnny Lewis was that man. I mean, some of the guys who I trained with today are kind of now that I've grown up, and I look at it and I think of what happened.

I question it tremendously.

And like I said, I don't bring up names, but I know the people who I helped in every way, shape or form, and you know.

I had to be they were jealous. They were jealous of my success.

They were living, you know, behind me, instead of you know, being equal in front of me and everybody. I mean, as an athlete, you want to be the best. And that was just lucky that I was.

Just On that issue of friendship, like I think, true friendship is that I would enjoy your success as much as if it was my success. That's what That's why they're real mate, real friendships.

Yeah, there are many of them going. I think we've learned that in your experiences the same as I've learned it.

Yeah, definitely, definitely, But it's a quality that I think, yeah, we really should try and hang on to because I see too many people get dragged back into a world because they're friends, so called friends, or even family for that matter. It's got the wrong family drag you, drag you back.

I'm happy you brought up fan. Well, I'll tell people this and said, listen, everybody talks about blood. Blood's nothing to me your brother or sister, your father or something done something wrong.

Than my to my family, they're a blood.

I'm gonna they're gonna they're gonna that's blood, but they're gonna be bleeding.

I mean none of that.

I don't believe any of that. She like, there's just the one word you said. It's looking and me being able to show you that. I'm You've been able to accept and show me that in return. That's when you know you've got a friend, or that's when you know your family member loves you and stuff.

Well, I've seen your mum talk about it, and she's like any any loyal mum, and she supports you. But it must have been a great joy for her seeing you steer your life in the right direction.

Oh yeah, my mom was Yeah.

And my dad, like I said, my dad, was you lost your dad earlier?

Yeah, fifty seven. He was sick with the same problems that I had with my vows. My dad had valves putting into his heart when he was in his twenties, you know, and he lived at fifty seven. And I'll never forget. Just before I thought Victor Collagious and Johnny and I we had to go to the hospital because they said my dad's.

Going to be dead.

And my brothers were there cleaning him, shaving him, and the family were there, and the priest came in and my dad held my inn. I sad, I'm not going to fight, Dad. It was going to it was for my third world. Told you, yes, you're going to fight us down. I can't fight. I don't want to, you know, you know, he said, son, I'm.

Going to be there. The priest was saying.

My dad a week later watched me fight and died after I thought, and my dad was dressed in a suit, look like there was nothing wrong with him. Yeah, out of hospital watched me fight. So, like I said, I don't know, the world's a puzzle as far as I'm concerned. You know, just trying to put that puzzle together is

But life. Life is a journey, isn't it, And like.

There are all lessons I've learned so much from it I take.

From Sometimes people are in your life for a period of time for a reason. You get, you get some reward from it, you give a little bit back, and then you move on.

That's yeah, Garrey.

People alway ask me, I'm sure if you're gonna ask me this question, what was my favorite fight and what was the highlight? Favorite fight? Without doubt, nothing compares to the fight that I got knocked out and I lost him. I love that fight because of who I am today. I wouldn't be talking if I didn't do that, I'd be over in American I've had millions more dollars. I would be the person I am that I taught me everything about myself, everything about the world I live in, and yeah, yeah, I.

Just you know it. That's interesting you to say that, Jeff, that like.

You don't learn from me, you know me, Well, well, there's nothing to loom when you win, you just want to keep winning. But when you lose, there's a lot to learn. And then you learn about your surroundings. Who who your real friends are you learning about?

Yeah?

You know, And man, that is without doubt, I love a zoom and Nelson for that, you know. And the reason why not for me, it was because I thought I was going to just go back out there and was just going to be around thirteen forty. I thought I was going to kill that guy in the second fight, and he went home. He studied me, he studying had to do, and I just, you know, I just became a big end. I don't even like the person that was back then. I don't like that guy that was

It's interesting and all the celebrities, I should say, but it's interesting that that that loss was sort of wake up call. And I've heard you say this before that it could have if you didn't lose, you would have all the bright lights.

You believe your own publicity. That was a sort of wake up call.

Well I already look, I'd already believed. Or they go like I said, I don't like I said. Man, when I was young, I was able to do what I wanted to do, and then the best and the worst thing happened to I had two daughters, and if anybody done what I'd done, and I don't mean I've done it in a bad way. But I mean I was free to pick and choose at that time. To my daughters, I'd be disgraced. You know, I want to kill people. And I think to myself today, how just how blessed

You know it it came to you at a relatively early age.

But you look at the footballers that get into trouble the NRL, that's your thing, looking at that young footballers that get into trouble.

But it is a hard world. If I had all the fame.

And trimmings that they get as a national sporting star in the NRL as nineteen or twenty year old, I'd be a dickhead.

I've got to interrupt, and this is what we need. You know, this is what people don't realize at the start of the year.

They have these people who the world needs more of you, and they need more of Johnny Lewis that people who have been there and done that know about it.

I mean, this is this is what happens.

So at the start of the year, we're going to the football team down and we're gonna tell them you can't do this, you can't do that. You can't listen two games later with the rout having a drink, that's all forgotten. Every game after every game, they need that personally, that Johnny Lewells or that Gary Juvenal or that Jeff Any this is down. So listen, I know we've just been amazing successful today. You want to go and celebrate,

This is not the one thing a year.

Think they're gonna be reminded every week and they're gonna have somebody there at the end of the game.

Yeah, we all want to celebrate, but the world's changing. You can't celebrate like we.

Used to celebrate it and you got mobile phones everywhere.

Yeah, and you look at in the old day the footy players used to go out and some of the stories I've been around it. I've been around it today. Man, I feel sorry for the players of today. And you know, I said, they drop a kid on the floor and on the front page of paper. These guys yesteryear and I was yester year as well, So I don't want to say, but man, we got away with a lot on.

The stories are not just in the sporting field, like the policing world. Like there's an accountability for the cops now that certainly wasn't there when I first first joined joined the cops. But it is a is a changed world. We might we might take a break here, Jeff. I'm enjoying the chat. We haven't even scratched the surface. I haven't even referred to my notes set, I haven't did all this preparation and were chat.

I'm this guy, like I said, I just love the like I said about me learning from everything that I've gone through is means a real lot to me. Going on and go to restaurants and every week, my wife and I'll be sitting down because we had every single night, and I will see two people there and they'll.

Look at me. So their bills paid for it the end of the night.

Not that I want to, but I've paid for it when I've gone, and I just want them to know that I appreciate the older people. Or I'll see somebody drinking a bottle of wine that's twenty I'll send them a beautiful bottle of wine.

Just yeah, And I love doing that. It's for me.

Giving back today is the most important I could ever dream of doing to this amazing country. That Yeah, that made me the person I am.

Well, and like giving and giving back, there's rewards that you get from that, isn't it. You would hate to go through life and you could have had ten times more.

Iially believe I'm still alive today because of the person I am.

Yeah, Yeah, that's what I believe in. I believe in I believe in Carmen. I believe that.

All the great things that I'm in, great things I've done for different people, have changed people's lives.

You know, I've helped people.

I think that.

God has said it's not my time here, you know. Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, it's when it's done, it's done for me. But like I said, I've had two major hard operations. If I fell asleep the first night, I would have been dead. If I went to bed that night in the second one, if I didn't feel that I had some lump in my wrist and in my think, I would have went to bed that night, I wouldn't have worked up year.

You've had some close calls, Yeah, I've had some close calls.

Yeah.

So you might make you look at life a little bit, a little bit wiser.

Yeah it does.

Yeah, yeah, it opens your eyes. And like I said, I'm miss going now. If I just believe when when when the time's right, it's right when it's time for me to go, And it was time for me to go. So yeah, I just I'm blessed. I'm blessed to still be able to go out and enjoy myself. Like I said, my wife, my beautiful wife, and I my life is the way it is because my wife, Susie am.

If I didn't meet Susie.

How long you've been with Susie?

It's this year's thirty years married and my wedding. James Packer and all the boys.

Man they had a board walked around saying three six and nine months and I had odds and yeah, and maybe that only should have last then, But I'm blessed. I have it amazing wife that's got an amazing family.

And yeah, although I shares a strong woman with you, she's got to be strong.

Yeah, Like I said, it's so hard to break away from all those things that I've done all those years with Johnny and all the team. We were a different television than the than the world is today. But yeah, I try my best, and you know, I just try to make sure that like I said, I explained, like I said, I open eample my daughters. You know, when they had boyfriends, then I'm going to I said, bring

I can't. I've got no control at all.

People think I'm crazy when my daughter's had a few boyfriends, but now all of a sudden. Through that experiences, you know, they learn. And my young daughter, Kayla has the most amazing husband, being Bradman best.

You know, he's a football player.

I'll never forget when she first told me she's going to go with Braden, I said, you're going to go out of the funny play. You know what. As soon as he finishes training, he walks out there there's a one hundred girls waiting for him, and my daughter said, dad, Bradman talked to me about that, and he said, just that your dad, And I'm going to prove him wrong.

Has he proven me wrong?

He's like, you know, yeah, there's always there's somebody that wants to change things. And like I said, you know, like I said, my daughter's had boyfriends and stuff, but now she's got the perfect one. She's got the granddaughter, Collira, and ayah, I'm so proud of her. I'm yeah, I'm just so proud of.

Where she is today.

Good stuff.

I'm just thinking about the poor guy that walks in. Do you bring him down to this room with all your world ted laid out? And yeah, what's your intention? Like my daughter brings someone home, I just sit there cleaning my gun. I feel, get the water pistol out all right, we'll take a break and we'll be back for part too shortly