The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective sy aside of life the average person is never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world. Today, we're going to take you into the spying game. We're going to be talking to someone who knows and understands
this world better than most. We're going to be talking to a former CIA operative who's spent over twenty five years with this secretive organization, gathering intelligence and conducting covert operations. Most of what we know about the workings of the CIA comes from spy novels or Hollywood movies. Well, today We're going to find out exactly what goes on in that shadowy world. Who are these faceless men and women who put their lives at risk in the hope of
making the world a better place. Rick Prado, a former CIA operative, is going to tell us all about it because he was one of those faceless men. Rick, have you ever had an operation where communications break down right at the critical time?
Several times? Trust me, we have a scene who was one and one has known so yeah, when it comes to communications.
Yeah, it's for me from my time in policing. Got to say, we've had some very interesting guests on I Catch Killers, but we haven't had someone that's lived the life like you've lived. It's quite extraordinary what you've been through in your world that you operated in the CIA.
Yeah, I have to say that I've been a blessed individual. You know. I came to this country as an orphan immigrant, and this country adapted, adopted us, adopted me and subsequently my parents when they were able to come out. So I developed that data honor very early on in my life, and shortly after hastchool I went into the military and from then on eventually to the Agency.
Well, that certainly comes across in your book that the fact that you really believe in what you do, the type of work you did in the CIA, and we've had like undercover cops, have had FBI cops on and all the police I've worked with, whether it be tactical and different things, the type of work that you do, it's almost like the pressure on steroids, like the stakes are very high in the world that you are operating.
Moral compass. I always found that in law enforcement, different different people, it's important to hang on to a moral compass. When you worked in the CIA, I'm sure there was ethical dilemmas that you faced. How did you manage to navigate your wife through that world?
Well, first of all, to address the first part of what you were talking about, I think one of the biggest differences and I work with law enforcement. I'm a full member of our Fraternal Order of Police here, but remember that even when you guys are under cover, you're in your turf, you have nine to one one. We don't. We only operate outside of the United States. To answer your second question, the moral compass was easy because I was blessed with really good leaders, individuals that groooned me
that appreciated what I was willing to do. So for me, navigating that was OJT. Most of the work that we have is on the job training. We have the farm that we go through that's formal. After that, it's literally your your senior operators guiding you through each step of the way.
So I think it's crucial in situations you found yourself in to have that good leadership. You can't underestimate a good leader. And also mentors are very important in that world.
Yeah, that's something that I learned from my mentors and I've tried to pay it forward by doing the same for a lot of our other guys.
Okay, writing the book about the CIA, what motivated that? Because you know, I'm sure you know the perception that's very secretive world. And I understand having read the book and cover the cover, and I've got to say it is a great read. It took me right into that world. What was the motivation behind writing the book?
That's one thing that I never wanted a moniker that I ever dreamed of being in my name, best selling author. That was never in my pocket. I always wanted to
do something special military. I always loved the CIA concept of doing things little that I knew about it, but I had several people, like one of my bosses, called for Black, was various tru mental in getting me to write the book because he felt, being a lot smarter than me, that I had a story, a life story that would help carry several messages at the same time. And the biggest message, or the first message, is that the agency is made up of honorable people, hard work
and individuals dedicated to the job. And it's nothing like it is portrayed in the movies and in the novels. Don't get me wrong. We have our bad guys, just like you've had. I'm sure somebody here amiss that you
disagreed with or that betrayed you. But the main, the primary reason was to honor my colleagues, which are all people that are dedicated to the mission, individuals that have the smarts and the backbone to go out and make big money, you know, a private sector other jobs, and they choose this kind of service.
And it's a service to the public, isn't it. Because a skill set that the operators have that it's certainly transferable to the private sector and they probably make a lot of lot more money. So there has to be something that's driving people to work work in that field.
You also, and I picked up I'm not sure if it was in the book or one of the one of the interviews that you've done, the fact that the CIA have been like as a closed organization and in some parts does a disservice to itself because people speculate on what goes on, and I think a book like that, like I'm reading through the book and go, okay, well, how dark are we going to dive here? But you really explain that then the decisions that are made and the type of situations that you find yourself in.
Without a doubt. I mean, you know, I think that you mentioned the moral compass from the very beginning. I don't think that anybody volunteers to do law enforcement work, or military work, or in my case, agency work without having a higher cost and a higher belief. So for us, that's that was the reason that I wanted to clarify.
And you mentioned how bad my agency is about permeating good news, and that's something that I have actually tackled as many times as I could that when there are things that we can say that we succeeded and no longer compromise sources and methods that we owe it to the public to be able to get it out there. Contrasts the FBI. They could have Ruby Ridge today and tomorrow they shoot billing it. Well, we have a flap
and it comes out and everybody knows about it. But I could you know, somebody could recruit Putin's secretary and we can't go out and say, hey, we just recruited Putin secretary. So it is a very ungrateful mistress when it comes to.
That well described. I think the fact that the type of work that's done, and even in the book, you've taken us into the world without releasing too much of the methodology an understanding of it. But it hasn't given an advantage to the bad guys that people are chasing now.
Absolutely that, and as a matter of fact, my book was fully clear by CIA for that very purpose. I wrote, as you saw in the book, there are some many blacked out areas, things that they did not let me talk about. And I understand, I understand sources and methods, but that was part of the process, a very lengthy process. It took me six months to get it past the agency. All approves, so I could actually then show it to my publisher.
Well, I think you came back very good with all the redacted parts it. It wasn't too overwhelming. I thought you might have just had the heading and the rest of it redacted in the end, but yeah, they left a lot lot in the book. And it's been selling very well too.
I thought, Yes, was a New York Times number eight bestseller list and as of last count, sold over ninety thousand copies, so it's doing okay.
So look at you now we can call you the critically acclaimed author, not any of the CIA operative. Before we get into your life and your career, I just want to get a sense what the role of the CIA is and if you could just break it down, because we say it and basically the public's perception of it is seen in the movies or the spy novels. I get a sense of the type of work that
you do being involved in law enforcement. Could you just explain to the public so that I get a sense of what the role of the CIA is.
Well. First of all, and most importantly, we do not operate in the United States. We're forbidden to operate in the United States, So all our work is done overseas, which means that not only do we have to recruit people that are willing to go overseas, but they have to learn a language. We can never send somebody to a country that they cannot communicate, because that is part of that's so much a big part of our work. But the essence of the agency is to collect intelligence
the benefits our country, to protect our people. Obviously, there is a second part of it, which is black ops. That's the title of the book, which is covert operations where the American hand has to be hidden, and that comes under title fifty authorities that only the President gives the CIA. UH. And I give you an example when I when I was in Honduras at the very beginning of my career, living in the jungle there with the countries,
that was a black op program. I was there as a Honduran major, and UH, there was no advertisement of the American hand. But at least for the first two or three years, that was pretty sacro saint. Later on, the same thing, you know, operating overseas and UH having that view of how we do things.
UH.
And and protect.
Yep okay, your your childhood, which is fascinating in itself, and I think it was the perhaps the driving force of the path that your life took in the type of work that you did. Could you tell our listeners about your upbringing and what happened there and how that shaped you as a person.
You know, Gary, I believe that God prepares us for our path and if we have the fortitude of the backbone to follow that path, we will do well. I believe that, even though it was very painful at the beginning, all the trials and tribulations that I did go through forged my medal to end up being what I was able to do. You know, I was a very happy kid in Cuba. My dad was a middle class businessman
nineteen fifty ninety owned a fifty seven Pontiac. We had a TV and a telephone, which was even by American standards. I was solid in middle class and going from that and within six months seeing my parents destroyed their business taken over, you know, me wearing a uniform at the age of seven or eight or nine, that was that was quite a shock. Subsequent to that, my dad decided that we're going to leave the country for freedom. But my mom and dad couldn't get out at the same time.
So a program that came from the Catholic Church called Pavel Pound Peter Penn program took out four thousand somehadd kids out of Cuba under the similar need, and I ended up in an orphanage in Pueblo, Colorado. Pueblo, Colorado back today is still a blue collar town. Imagine back in sixty two, it was a pretty rough learning experience.
You get into an organization that has three or four different nationalities, two or three different languages, you know, and a lot of pissed off kids because nobody likes to be an orphan. So I had to grow up pretty quick from the nice life in Cuba where everybody was my friend, to making friends that would stick with you and vice versa.
So and with the leaving Cuba, what was happening at that time that made your parents think it's better the ship you overseas to a country they've never been to, You haven't been to, you don't speak the native language. What was it there that was occurring in Cuba?
Well, would you have the cast for revolution had just taken place? Took place in January of fifty nine, and though he was welcomed by the masses, including my parents. It became very obvious very shortly that he was a communist, and that he started confiscating not only foreign businesses, which was bad enough, but local business. You know, my dad's coffee business was confiscated and he had I think he
hired ten people. He had ten employees. So it's it's not like we were, you know, an imperialist company of some sort. But it was communism. It was it was they taken away of freedoms, the indoctrinations and the schools, you know, telling us that if our parents spoke bad of the revolution, we had to turn them in. It we just that that I'm Beyonce of fear that permeated. And my dad was a pretty tough guy. He was
a cowboy before he was a businessman. Literally he used to run my grandfather's for a ranch and he was very good at making quick decisions that he did. He says, we got to get out of here. And I think the most important point is that we left Cuba for freedom. We had a middle classicsistence and we came to the United States and I will tell you that we were sub poverty for at least the first four or five years.
So it was quite a fraastic change to my mom working on a sweatshop sewing, my dad working two jobs. It was quite quite a change for us. But freedom drove it. And I think the point that you made is most excellent and very important to me. My parents are the ones that sacrifice. A lot of people go, oh, poor Rick, you had to go through. No imagine taking your only child and put him in an airplane to a country that you may never even be able to visit for freedom.
I can't even comprehend it, Rick, like it's really but I think that typifies the character of your parents to start with. But what was going on in your country and with the communists that you've seen that throughout your career and will break your career down. But you've seen that type of thing where it all looks fine when the new regimes coming in the communist regime, but it doesn't always play out the way it's designed or sold in the first place.
Without a doubt. I mean, if you can name me one country that has thrived with communism, I will give you a praise. I mean, look at Venezuela, look at Cuba. The standard of living in Cuba was third, with all of the hemisphere in behind the United States, and I don't know what else it was. So without a doubt it is socialism is nothing more than a mask that communism wears to get into your skin. And the only
people that benefit from communism are the leaders. And you could see that in Soviet Russia, some of the leaders had car collections that were worth millions of dollars. The castros have millions and hundreds of millions of dollars that they've stashed away. So the people are barely eating. Cuba right now is going through a tremendous, tremendous hard times and the weather isn't helping there. They're on their third hurricane in the last few months. But the people are suffering.
But you know, the the nomenclature that runs it or not. And there's a joke in Cuba that if you see a house that has been painted in the last ten years, you know that it's a party member.
That's it's obvious. But well, that's what the world has shined in the history recent history is sh shine just what you've you've said, and it's interesting you say shining an example, because there's not examples where it's gone. Well. Getting back to you, Okay, you've got a bit of the cowboy in you. Growing up, you were reunited with your parents, but you know you were struggling. Or when say struggling, they had to work hard to make their life in the new country. Where did your your path
take you. I know you found martial arts which kept you out of trouble for a bit and stead you gave you some commitment. But tell us about those early years, the adolescent years.
Yeah, I was lucky that my parents came out less than a year after I left, so other kids had it a lot worse than I did. But you know, the one thing that I always have was parental love and parental guidance and a great example from a mom and a dad. But I did start the martial arts when I was fifteen years old. I was fascinated by it. I I embraced it, and to this day I still train in different arts. But I did have a falling
out of hanging out with a role in culture. And what happened was, you know, the experiences and the in the in the orphanage ingrained in me the fact that if I take crap from people, they're just going to keep giving me crap. So my tolerance for people getting in my face was very very short. So in school, I would hang out with mostly the tough kids, and
I used to get good grades. I was always at least a B student, but I used to get in trouble for fighting all the time because there were again different cultural things going on, the Cubans coming into Miami, the blacks trying to come out, you know, the white population that that conflict was very, very alive and well when I was growing up, But that was a very short period. That was just a few years of hanging
out with the wrong crowd. Most of those guys, as a matter of fact, the majority of those guys are either dead in jail or became police officers, so and I in spy. So it was that kind of a growing up thing. That said, I realized very early on that I did have a debt of honor to the United States. And there's there's a small piece in the book where I was in my first semester of college and these were the hippie years. This is nineteen seventy
seventy one, and they were gonna they put it. They posted that tomorrow they were going to take down the American flag and burn it. And I said to myself, now, that's not going to happen. But I didn't have any friends in college. I was fresh news, so I had to go back to my high school homies. And it was I think five of us and about twenty of them. And it wasn't much of a fair fight.
They didn't get to tight the flag.
Then, no, they did not. As a matter of fact, they lost all their beads and T shirts. But the thing is, though, and this was critical, critical in my life. It may sound a little melo dramatic, but I looked up and it was a beautiful blue sky and there's that American flag, and I realized that for the first time in my life, I had done violence for the
right reasons. Six months later, getting a special operations team called Pair of Rescue, which is the part of the Air Force Special Operations guys, and my goal was to go to Vietnam and keep fighting.
Okay, I think there's a pathway people often take, and I think a lot of people when you talk about your friends, they ever end up in jail, dead, or police, military or whatever. Sometimes if you like the excitement and you find okay, you can actually fight for the right reason, and I dare say what you what you felt there was, Hey, this is all right. You can have the excitement of the fight, but you're doing it for the right reason.
Of course, and that I think that's what drives most of us, I mean, your profession included. You know, police officers don't go out to become popular. They do not go out to become millionaires. They go out because they want to serve. But you know, the action is the juice, the fact that you can come in and make a difference and save a live or wrong, you know, right or wrong. That's a hell of a rush. And doing it especially in the dangerous and circumstances that we both
both our worlds operate in. Absolutely.
Yeah. I don't know about you, but you talk the juice, and I understand that you're chasing the excitement. That's what
drove me at the start. But as you become a little bit more wiser and you see actually how it all plays out, and you see the impact of the things that you're doing and what you're looking at, who you're trying to protect, it's sort of the changes like the juice is the excitement at the start, but then you start to go on the path that you're doing it because you know it's the right thing to do.
Absolutely rate. You're one hundred percent rate.
So you joined the military. That wasn't you weren't too popular with your mum because the Vietnam War was still going on at that stage. You had dreams of ending up in there. But you got a bit Your mum was a little bit pissed off to to say the least, when you're signed up. But they let you go. But the war came to a conclusion.
Yeah, we still had the draft at a time, but my draft number was so high that my parents were happy because they knew that I was going to get drafted, and you know, at the time, but I didn't realize it. Uh, And I you know, I was kind of angry at my parents that they didn't understand that I wanted to do this. But then I realized they already had lost their son once and now here he is an idiot going out and trying to get himself killed again. So now I understand a lot better being a parent than
everything else, what what their angle was. But without a doubt, I mean, my my whole thing was to go into into uh para rescue, which I was lucky enough to make through hard work and and and uh and determination. But you know that that's what led me eventually to to the agency.
I sorry described the power rescue because that's people I don't think fully understand what that is, but that's that's high level para military stuff.
Yeah, it is. This part of the special operations community. You know have a you Navy seals that are more known green berets, and Para Rescue is one of two special operations forces that are the Air Force. The other it was our sister Calmbat controllers and the main job of Para Rescue is to go retrieve either down pilots or special operations guys who get caught in the Netherlands. So our training is brutal.
It is.
As a matter of fact, we go through the same scuba school that the Navy. When I went through through underwater receiving school, all my all my instructors for seals and at the time only pair of rescue and seals had to go through scuba school in order to get your beret or your trident or whatever it was. At the end. So it was uh, you know, mountain climbing, parachuting, survival, obviously, the scuba, scuba, scuba and and but all as meat.
And of course the medical. We are combat medics because you go get a team that is under duress and one guy's got a broken leg, you got to fix them before you can transport on. So we got pretty good at that. And I'm very very very proud that I that I joined Para Rescue because I think he made me a better man. And it was literally my venue into the agency.
Well, it certainly gave you a skill set that allowed you to do the do the work in the agency. You people would ask, aka, how do you get in the CIA? I think you've made one application and it was sort of I'm good for this, I speak Spanish, blah blah blah, I've done this, but you're rejected. Tell us the story how and also why you decided to go into that area.
Well, you know, the thing was I was having a blast and pair of rescue. You know, I was jumping every other day, I was scuba diving one so big I was doing but there was no purpose. It was training for training sake, and we knew Vietnam was over a few months after I, you know, got my bereat
Vietnam was pretty much done with. So I had this itch that I have all this training, but all I'm doing is getting more training and getting better out of training that I don't see, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel before I died to be able to actually do something. And we have a lot of people that post Vietnam, you know, they made a career and they never went to war. You know, it
just it just it is what happens. So I applied, Like you said, I applied to the CIA in nineteen seventy four, that's right after the Vietnam and there was huge attritions Vietnam War of both our military and our intelligence services that were decimated. So the note that I got back basically said thanks, but we're firing, not hiring kind of thing. So I stayed in the reserves and I became a paramedic with the Miami Metro Fire Department.
And that was great because I that further honed my paramedic skills as a p pj's what the cold pair of rescue guys, as a parent jumper, and it was that very thing that allowed me to get into the CIA. I applied again in nineteen eighty. I had changed reserves. I was now with a National Guard Green Beret unit. I was never a green beret. I was on my
process to get that qualification. Also when the agency this time they accepted me because Ronald Reagan had just taken over and the first thing that he did was declare war on communism worldwide, including the Soviet Union, but definitely in our backyard. And when he made the band aid that the agency was supposed to support the Nicaraguan countries that were fighting the communists and Denistas that were being buoyed by Cuba or by the Soviet Union via Cuba.
The attrition of the agency you had been such that they have a native Spanish speaking paramilitary officers. Okay, they had great paramilitary officers. We have incredible special forces. I did eleven My first eleven years was with Special Activities Division, but they did not have the native Spanish and they had native Spanish speakers, but they do have the paramilitary training. So that's that's how well that was my toil.
You had the perfect, perfect combination. Now for people say, because the next three years and I'll let you describe the next three years of the work that you did working at working over there. I got to say, i'm reading it, I was cringing at the thought of what confronted you going in there on your own, And yeah, you had to use every skill set available for a person, negotiating skills, being able to befriend people, to lead people, to train people, and also you're fighting skills that you
you had. So tell us about that, because that is, honestly just an absolute adventure. This is a type of thing that they do see movies about that. People. I'm thinking, who are these dudes going there? Tell us about it?
Well, you know, I'm very proud of that that period. And actually they often asked me, what is the best job I ever had in the agency? And it's hard because I had a lot of great jobs, but that one was very close to home. Gary, because you have to understand that now, as a thirty year old man, I am helping freedom fighters fight the same monster that
destroyed my first country. So I did. I did three years, a little over three years, living literally Monday through Friday in the jungles between Nicaragua and Honduras for the first fourteen months of that program. I was the only CIA officer allowed to go to the camps because it was built a black op. It needed the hand American hand needed that I was there as at hon Durham Major. So it was the most rewarding time of my life. And people look at me and go, you spent three
years sleeping in a jungle hammock. How'd you put up? I said. I was always thrilled. I was newly married. I'm married to the best woman in the world that had no problems with me leaving Monday morning at four o'clock in the morning and coming back Friday at midnight and spending the weekend and doing it again because she also is Cuban. She also lived actually she lived under Communism a lot longer than I did. So that period
was very rewarding in that sense. The other part of it, too, is that the quality of the people that I was
dealing with. We're talking primarily peasants, and you know, every night after because I'd be training them all day whatever it was, and the night I would grab a cup of coffee and circulate with the different fire fires that were there that people were warming up or whatever, and I would ask them why are you here, and there wasn't a single one to say, well, you know, I read Lenon and let you know, I don't I don't
believe in communism. It was like they raped my daughter, They forced my son to conscript it to the military at the age of fifteen. They beat up my priests and burnt my church. It was all personal. It was pure. These individuals had given up everything and were living in squalor. Because even with our help, you're still living in you know, in the woods. So it was very rewarding to know that what I was imparting on them the one thing
they did not lack. They lacked training, and they lacked logistics, but they did not lack conviction and courage.
When you're actually a sign that that operation mission, can you just talk us through? Like you're basically getting dropped into meet with a group of people. They're fighting people, and they're fighting a just cause they're passionate about it. There's a lot of mistrust in that environment. Who's you know, whose side are you really on? Who is this this person? I think they had some Argentine operatives helping out that they didn't get on with too well or didn't quite trust.
Then Rick rolls up on his own and Hi, guys, I'm here talk us through that. How did how did you build relationships? How did you work your way into that organization?
Well? Yeah, first of all, I think that my street savvy, my street skills that you understand better than the average person, came in very handy because I knew when to be nice and when not to look like food. So I had to my ground in many cases. There were two senior agency officers, and of course we had a station in Tegucigapa, Honduras, and they were in charge of the program. But I had no training by the agency. I signed up on a Thursday, showed up on a Monday, and
two weeks later I was not Rick Prado anymore. I was Alex Bendez. Giving me a blue pad sport and sent to Honduras and Mike marching. Orders were you have two kernels over there that are ours. Do what they tell you. And when I got to the ground, they looked at me and they said, you're going to go to the camps. You've got to make yourself indispendable. You go to get gain their trust, do whatever it takes to win them over and get us to help them.
So that was one of the reasons that we ran a foul of the Argentines because the Argentines were there, and I give them credit that they they supported the country program earlier on minuscule because I believe what I saw the first six months that I was there was living in mud and squalor and in malaria and leshmaniases and everything else. But they for them it became a motus evening they were getting per diem from the United States. I never saw an Argentina in a camp all the
time that I was there. So but for me, when I got to the camps and I could speak the language, and I could have shoot any of the guys they had, and I could rucksack them, and I can teach them communications and patrolling and hand to hand and all these things. You know, you you've been through training, you you admire instructors. There's a certain royalty that a good instructor UH earns when when they're teaching their supporter. That's and uh I
I I still have friends from from that era. I still have commanders that we stay in touch with because you know, they knew that I was there for them. You know that they they figured out that I was not Honduran, but they didn't care.
It's clear you gain gained their respect. And there was a lot of different little groups too, so it wasn't just went over one lot that you were moving from camp to camp. But I just found that extraordinary that and we haven't even touched on like the conditions of physical conditions like living in living in the jungle, like tough time. So I can understand why you look back at that and with with pride, because it's something that not many people could do, but you you seem to flourish with it.
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I look back now at seventy three and I go, what were you thinking? But immediately I know what I was feeling, and I think that that was what it was all about. I was
finally making a difference. I was there helping people, which was what was driving my boat, and it was extremely rewarding and it did launch my career because again part of the blessing was I was the only guy in the camps for the first year and a half of that time, so my name was known to just about every division chief and back at CIA, who is this guy kind of stuff, and so that secured my career. I didn't have my college. I only had two years
of college when I went into the agency. And to become an operations officer, paramilitary and case officer, you have to have a four year degree. So they actually sponsored me to finish my education at George Mason University of Mason University, India in the Virginia. And from there I went to our farm which is our Masters and espionage. That's where you look did the craft of very esoteric color of grass.
I find it interesting. I look at that the three years that you spent there. It's almost like, well, if he survives, he's got his credibility, and now we'll invest some invest some time in just before we move out of that that deployment, because you had three years, I found it interesting. You also the people that you were supporting, you had to they lost their leader or one of the groups lost their leader too took over and their moral compass had slipped. The power went to their head
and you had to rain them in. Can you just tell us that story in the circumstances there, because I thought it was again that typifies the type of pressure you're under not only you helping those people fought an enemy, you've also got to keep them in control.
Yeah. Well, one of my favorite commanders, come on there, SWU see that which means suicidal. That should give you a hit. Why why I liked him? He was killed and the guy that took over became cattle rustlers. I mean they were They had more guns than the local Hondurance by that time, they had more guns than the
local Hondurance did and and they started abusing. And as a matter of fact, the the biggest and most egregious act that they committed was there was one sub commander who opposed them, and they tied him to a tree, raped his wife in front of him, and then shot him. Uh that's the exception, not the rule. The majority of these people were good. So, you know, being the only CIA guy at the camps, the local Hondurance that my boss and said fix it, and I was said to
fix it. So I literally renditioned both these guys, uh separately. Both tried resist. It didn't work very well for them, and I brought them back to Tutagusigapa where they were put under a military trial and convicted accordingly.
Yeah, now it's a fascinating, fascinating time to be CIA of a fully fledged member. I understand that you need tertiary qualifications like degrees, so they sponsored you to go to the Union. I'm probably describing this a bit roughly, but to polish you up a little bit, to give you the say you could work in any environment that we know you can do the military stuff in the tough environments. But this is to polish you up so we can present you anywhere. Talks through that process.
Yeah, you know, it was a great challenge. Obviously, you know I did have a good upringing, so you know, I knew how to dress rate, I knew how to do things. But for those first three years of the Agency, I was a blunt object. And now I asked to be a surgical, very finesse individual that can you fit in as a diplomat or a foreign businessman. And so you have to be polished. And part of it is
that your education. My degree was intercultural conflicts, in other words, what pisses people off with each other, from religion to politics to everything in between. And I did very well at the farm. I was in the top three of my class. But again I had that motivation. And again this is where my Streak experience has really helped. There was one particular vignette where this Asia expert was testing us on doing what we call dead drops. You do
a surveillance detection route. I mean, you sure know you're not being followed and you lay down covert communications that are hidden in a branch or whatever the hell it was back then. It's sol electronic now. And when I did my stint, the guy came over and said to me. Luckily he was kidding, but he says, I'm reporting you to the FBI. And I said why. He goes, you've had prior training, and then he started laughing. He says, good job. But that's what it was. I was a
street kid. I knew how to blend in. I knew I had that feeling and that confidence, and that that really helped me tremendously. So it was a learning experience, a lot of writing. That's where one of the things you never see in James Bond books or movies is James Bond coming back from a mission, sitting it down at his desk and spending six hours writing it up.
So and by the way, I'm still waiting for my Austin Martin, I haven't got it yet, So it's it's very different than what people understand our careers to be.
And that that accountability too. But the tride craft that you learn at the farm, are they the type of skills they put the put you through, like anti surviolence and how to make a drop as you said, is that the type of thing that they run you through.
Yeah, I mean they run you through the gamut. I mean again, our main job is to recruit foreign spy, so there's a very methological, you know, a system for doing that, you know, the spotting the right individuals, developing them, recruiting them, running them, vetting them. That's all finesse stuff. And you're you're working undercover because you can't go into a foreign country. Go Hi, I'm from the CIA, which they can't. So we have to live whatever cover we
have worked. You know, I worked eight hours of the embassy and then I went out and did my stuff on the side. So from recruiting to handling agents. That that's all part of the training obviously, covert communications, photography, and like you said, trade craft. Tradecraft is something that is so kind intuitive. We have to take pleasures that assure us that we're not being followed and thus compromise ourselves and the agent or the person that we're trying
to recruit. So there's there's a lot of that finesse in there. Our guys and gals are also trained in the paramilitary side of the house. I didn't have to go through that because I already had all that training. As a matter of fact, it was guys like me
who would impart that on the students. But you know, these college kids, they had to jump out of airplanes, they had to repel out of helicopters, not because they were going to necessarily do that, and some have, but you know, it was mainly, you know, to test your metal and to build your metal, as you call when when you're going through that kind of training, it really forges your sword.
So to prepare them for what they what they might go into with the trade craft. In the book, you've talked about the situational awareness and the importance of that, and you had a system set up with the white, yellow, orange, red system talk us through that because that I think
gives people an insight. The fact that the system has been set in place gives you an insight that you are living life on the edge, when you're operating under covertly and the consequences a high Can you break down that the structure of it, because I thought it was a simple and you need simple things in these complex situations, with a simple way of making sure you're aware of what's going on.
Absolutely. The color system was created by a colonel, a retiring Marine Colonel Cooper. Colonel Cooper, and he started the first real viable gun fighting school for law enforcement and military guys. He was a big nineteen eleven forty five caliber guy and he's the one that made these colors. And the colors are white, yellow, orange, and red. You should never be in way unless you're in bed with your wife. Period. Yellow. It is what you live in.
It doesn't mean that you're paranoid. It means that you are aware. You get to a stop sign, you look in your mirror, you look at what access you may have. You know, you see what's going on. You're not surprised. When you go into orange is when you see something that you say, hmm. I'll give you any example. I'm driving down in the streets of the Philippines and I see a car that is parked over there. The trunk is open and the guy is fiddling around in the trunk. Well,
most people go home. He got a flat tire, Well, I looked eating. I have a flat tire. So immediately I go to Orange where now I plan what I'm gonna do if indeed it is a threat. And then red means implement. So if that guy brings out a tire iron and a tire, I go there's nothing. But if he brings out an AK forty seven, I can run him over with my car. Or I can do reverse one eighty. I could do all kinds of things. But if you are caught in the X by surprise,
chances are you're not going to make it. So those colors are are essential. But I will tell you that awareness beats fast drawer every time. And and there's a story that that that you alluded to in the Philippines where we were there training the Philippines Special Forces guys uh in fighting the nationally No People's Army and who was a Communist back insurgency that had killed Colonel Nick Roe just a few months before I got there, et cetera,
et cetera. And so we we had had long day's work and two our army captains Special Forces of the Filipinos, two of my texts and me and another case officer went to have dinner and and and a beer at a at a place. And when we walked out, the two military guys walked out, the two technical guys walked out, my friend walked out, and I walked out. And as soon as I walked out, I see these three guys standing there. They were talking. When we came out, they
got three abreast. They had their left hand in their pocket. And there's a there's a modus of perandi of a team called the Sparrows, and you could google that. It's dramatic. It's a guy that we captured and he he showed what they did, and that's they pushed the gun. The gun was the grip, safety was taped down. They did not carry a holster. All they did was with a left hand, push the gun up, shoot you put it back in, and walk off. And everybody's looking at the
dead person when they start looking around. They were ghosts. So as soon as those guys, I saw those guys, the two outside with the left hands of their pocket, I went on operational mode. I drew my weapon and taking that safety off was the loudest click, the loudest noise I think I've ever heard. Because you get tunnel vision, you get auto tour exclusion. And it was funny. You know, Gary, if you're if you're a civilian, or you're just somebody walking down the street and somebody points a gun at
you this way, what's your reaction. You're at least gonna go, hey man, whoa, WHOA, what's going on? These guys didn't even They just looked at me and went like, Okay, we'll get you next time. What I did not know, because you know it from your profession, tunnel vision auditory exclusion is a big deal when you're understressed. My buddy had also seen them and he had drawn his weapon. He was a Vietnam R by the way, he was a tour of William Bet. These guys just walked out.
And I've used that in training with the police and in training with by guys that I don't care if you're anti Oakley or whitet Arp if they are draw. If you're responding to a gun that's drawn on you, chances are you're going to get hurt. And uh, these guys saw two guns before their hands could push that forty five out. And I guarantee you if they were to pulled those forty five, they would have been shot before they got the guns in their hands. So fasttraw is always sucond to.
Work and the way that you described that, and I can see if you're walking through with the blinkers on and you're not looking at those type of things, you can become become a victim to it. I think I'm not sure if it's years of being a law enforcement officer, but I can walk into an environment and I can sense if there's there's a problem there and it comes instinctial. I think you've you've probably worked in that looking for those type of situations and sometimes you're just out and
you're looking. You think there's going to be trouble here in a moment, or you can see something that's going not quite right. But living that life that you do, and we've got so much to talk about, we'll have a break in a sect, but I just want to ask you, do you does your paranoia kicking like you've got your head on swivel the whole time, or did you have the ability to switch off and relax in the right situation.
Yeah, I mean, I think that it's a need in us that we remain in yellow. A perfect example is what I would go out to dinner and my kids were small. Both my kids are formal military now, but you know they're there when there was ball. They knew exactly where Dad was going to sit in the restaurant, and the older one would tell the little one, no, that's where Dad's gonna sit because I was going to have my back to the door, you know, I mean
my back to the wall. I would know what chicks, where was the bathroom, all this kind of stuff, and I am watching what's going on. But I paranoia. I'm sure there's some people fall into paranoia, and I've had people that reported things that never really happened and there was all their imagination, especially with agents. But I think it's just going back to those colors. It's just a way of life. I drive every day and when I get to this day and I'm a civilian now high profile,
but I'm still civilian. I get the traffic light and firstly, I don't pick up my phone start texting when I'm on that light. First thing I do is I look in my mirrors. And this is natural. I say, I've almost subconscious and I look at it, well, there's a path there if I have to get off the X. And that's not paranoia, that's just the survival instinct that we have lost by civilization.
It's fascinating. Well, Rick, let's let's take a break and when we come back to the part two. We've we've just touched, we've just scratched the surface of some of the stuff you've done. When we come back, we're going to delve deeper into the life of the CIA operative and I'm really enjoying the conversation.
I am too.
We'll back shortly. Cheers.