The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective sy aside of life the average person is never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world. Welcome back to part two of my chat with Nick Midgley, former heroin Addict and now program director of the Hope in Health Rehab Center.
Nick, welcome back, Thank you man.
Thanks having me.
I'm going to hit you up with a hard one. First up, who's the positive person in your life that you've you've met to date, who's had a good influence on you.
I've made lots of people have had good influences on me, But in terms of the most positive person, like his attitude being positive would be my sponsor. You know. So, like I do a twelve step program, not so much now, but like I still a lot more of it. I'm still still involved to some degree. But I've got a sponsor,
and I've had a few sponsors over the time. And I've always chosen people have done a lot of jail time and stuff, people that could hold secrets really well, because I thought I need a whole yeah you space, yeah yeah yeah. But at this time around, I knew I needed something different, you know, and Matte does this guy he worked in rehabits a long time too. You know, he's a he's a psychotherapist, and he wears all op
shop clothes, you know, it's a surfey and Byron. He's got like, you know, his long long white hair, walks around bed, rides his bike everywhere and then yeah, yeah, man, he's just but he is the epitome of just like fucking happiness. He's always smiling, you know, and it's never it's never a FOURD thing. He's just he's just worked out a really simplistic way to live life, man. And I chose him because like I didn't know what it was.
I just look at him. I don't know what it is you've got, but I know I need more of it, you know, and yeah and say yeah, he's Any.
Time I got like a crisis, like a hall do I What do I? What do I do?
I've got my MoMA, my boys sneaking his girlfriend into my place and they're both on the rage, and mom, what do I do?
Like, you know, you do come across people like that and they put off a different type of energy, don't you Like there's a real zen like calmness about them that yeah.
Yeah, yeah, And then then that's that's the stuff that makes spiritual you really sort of appealing for me. Yeah. So, like you know, because when I took my spiritual path, like my I had this idea because my mum and my sister quite spiritual, and I thought that was quite weird and a weird thing to do that we weird people do in weird places.
And stuff like that.
But man, like you know, when I saw like someone like him that practices the way he does, and after him other people as well, I thought, fuck, you know, that's that's why you do one of the because like you know, it's yeah, you actually become you can actually become a peaceful person in this world, you know, and feel good within.
Yourself that that contentment, and that's something that they always seem content where you contruct space. And it's good to surround yourself with people like that for sure, because I know that that's yeah, not necessarily in my nature, but a little bit rubs off from one person or another that you hang around, Like, you don't want toxic people in your life.
You definitely want that. I think it's good to have like a big spectrum of people in your life, you know. So like you know, I've got I've got quite a lot of ambitious, very successful business people in my life and like you know, and entrepreneurial quite people that you know, it was sort of like you know, and we brainstorm each other sort of stuff and we help each other sort of grow and you know, financially and stuff like that.
Then I've got my people that you know that you know, my my my boys, so you know, but they're really yeah, they're they're they're not shut off typical males or they can talk through proper, proper relationships stuff.
And that's something that I've got Yeah, I've got a group of mates that we do the bloke type of conversation where it's just hey, you going good mate? Yeah you could be going through ship but yeah, it's it's it's superficial. And then you've got people in your life that you and blakes and let let's talk about like masculinity because I think that's. Uh, it's a tough world being a black, I think, and we cop a lot
of and a lot of it deserved. But sometimes it's good for a bloke to be able to speak to another bloke and and talk about emotions. Yeah, you've said like you've gone through a relationship breakup. I would suggest half half your mates to go. No worries, mate, There's plenty of fish in the sea, but you want the conversation with someone that can break it down. How are you feeling?
Man? That's right. So you know, I'm just gone through alas of breakup and it was it was a tough one because I had to I had to walk away from a girl that I really I really did and do your love you know, but it was just it wasn't functional in my life. And so if I went to a certain demographical friends that I do have, and.
You know, one of them might tell.
Me that you know, all women know, and then the other one might tell me I was like, you know, we'll get you another one and yeah, yeah, you know whatever if if they just make it really you know, show un superficial, there's nothing, there's nothing when to get out of there, like I need, you know.
Yeah, I need, I need.
I need men in my life also that I haven't bring to stuff too and just you know, and have someone like you know, run, you know, run the actual scenario pass me. So oh if you leave this person, these are the attributes they have and just make things.
Really, I think that's where we get confused. Like blokes, you know, well we're taught or I was taught not to show your emotions and all that. You bottle it up. And there's a need for that. You need blokes to be blokes at points in time you don't want to be even if you're scared, you're not going to show it in certain situations. But to have that to be able to be vulnerable. What I've found in my path in life, it's a lot of the guys, the genuine
tough guys. Like when I say tough guys in that you want them standing beside you if you're in conflict, whether it's a physical or whatever. They're the ones that can actually strip it down because there's no bravado about them. Mate, I feel really sad. You know, it could be I feel really sad because of this or whatever. This is what I'm feeling. Do you find that that there's people there. We've got this perception that masculinity you can't be vulnerable.
But the real tough guys, the ones that I look up to and respect, have got that vulnerability and can talk about it because they don't have to prove themselves.
Yeah, and I think it takes a huge amount of strength and courage to actually be vulnerable. You know. The amount of the amount of strength that a man needs to have to be able to talk about how he actually feels and how he conducts himself in the world is huge. And I look at that as huge strength. They even did back when I was full of ego and insecurities and stuff. I used to look at men like that and go, fuck, that's really admirable. They can do that.
But I wouldn't fuck that, you know, But like, good on them.
It gets to that point where you've got the confidence to say, shit, yeah I was scared. I didn't want to go in there, but you still can do it or whatever you.
Yeah, man, look like you know, and I see that with myself now. Man, I would not lay hands on anyone now unless to put hands on me first. And I've had I've had that. I've had people like aggressively fucking wanting to knock my head off right in front of me, and stuff like that too, And I don't bat I didn't now, like until I lay hands on me or or threaten my family. Like, I wouldn't do
anything like that. But like you know, I know, I know that I've still got stuff in me that, you know, like if I need to, I can still fucking look after myself. But I also know that, like you know, I'm okay and comfortable enough in myself to be able to sort of, like you know, be on a podcast and tell you that I've just gone through a break
up with a girl I really love. I wouldn't want to tell anyone that I loved anyone or you know, like I looked at I looked at love itself as like a weakness and a vulnerability let alone and anything else. I think I've been doing this long enough for myself. Now that I see the I see the different script, you know, like I I see uh, I see men so fucking hurting jart up and they're trying to act cool, you know, and and I hear it in their laugh
like they laugh. It's a fake laugh. It's just like like now, you hear it at pubs and stuff especially, it's just like you know, and it's just this fake talk like there and it's like they put on this Yobo slang and you know, you just listen to it. I listened to that now. Just go man, fucking like how fake is it?
Like I get bored with that type of class. Yeah, it's in different goal.
Fucking you know. Just honestly, I just can't be around it, man. You know that's not as a judgment to them. That was me all my life, you know, but I just can't. I just can't. I just I can't tolerate it now, man, you know what I mean. And if I get that, like, I challenge you know, see, if if I get met with that on the top of guy now that try challenging to go a bit deeper and look a little bit deeper because I need that, you know, because I'm
authentically who I am. You know, I've opened myself up to meet people the same way. And so when people can be authentic with me and give me the same we can have real good intimate conversations and like I talk for days with these people, get to know those people really well, and stuff like that. But you know, like the will challenge to people that you know that that meet me there, you know, and if they can't go, they can't go past the shallow.
I struggle with the superficial conversations. And yeah, everyone's life. You get kicked in the guts, whether it's you know, you've had your heart broken or something happened, someone's died in your family, whatever. I like to when I've got situations like that, you've got people that can actually have that conversation and how do you feel, you mate, It's all right to feel this way.
That's yeah.
When the h fan with the cops had some really good friends that reached out because I'm standing there, no, no, it's fine. I'm sitting sitting at home just bloody doing nothing and not training, just stopped, and I was really in a down spot. But there were friends that I could actually talk to about that without being ashamed of it, talking about it, and it helped. But there were other people.
How you go, mate, get the phone call, Oh good mate, no worries that type of thing, just a superficial I can't. I can't do those type of things. But when you are comfortable with And this is where I talk boxing, and so I don't get into trouble talking boxing all the time. But just police boys clubs and all that I saw when I was in the cops. A lot of kids come come through that, kids that were on the wrong track, kids that were getting in the fights,
kids that were creating crime. And they'd come in there and they'd be taught to fight and then they'd stop fighting. And people can't work that out. But because they don't have to prove themselves, because we're all scared in a way, sometimes we end up in the fight because you're scared.
Yeah, nearly all the times made all the all the A lot a lot of these hard asses that I've known in the past and stuff like that who was sort of proceeded the people that you don't want to mess with, mane A lot of them, A lot of that stuff comes from fear. And you know, even even this this mentor that took me through my process when I first met him, you know, uh, you know, he was trying to get a reaction out of me, you know.
And and he said to me, he said, man, I'm just waiting for you to stop being full of ship. What do you mean full of ship? He said, Man, you got a shaved head, You're full of tattoos, you're full of steroids, You're full of fear, and you're full of ship. You know. I was like, fucking what. So I got reactive because back then, like you know, back then, because I was fearful, thought fucking out there you see through me, Yeah, because you saw me.
I got reactors going.
Mate, you're triggered like that because you know, you know I'm right, you know. And he took me through this price. He took me back to all these times when I was really fearful. I put up all this bravados and stuff like that.
You know.
I mean, I I've plenty of times in my life where I actually thought I was going to meet death. Like I remember this one time I went to seven. You know, I was with a bunch of people just did a breaking in her, and like I was like fourteen or something. I went to seven eleven to get.
A sausage roll sloopy, you know.
I come back and maybe they had this fucking shitty little fucking like you know, watches that you used to go in your suit.
Like the old people watch watch and the god I went.
With mate he ended up backing it here and I fucking wanting to steal it. You know, I don't know if it would have been worth much of her anyway, everyone else in the room I saw it missing, you know, and I was the only one that left the apartment that just sucking all the scene. It was me and may like you know, these guys, like I said before, they're desperate. Now I'm the young teenager, I'm the most vulnerable.
May you know that that time I thought, mane fuck, I'm deady and they turn on me, like they fucking really turned on me, and I thought I'm not going to make was on this guy's pulled it out of his I was, yeah, you know, they fucking saved me. But in that time I thought, fucking you know, I was dead. And the other times too, when I was at the gap week I walked down to the public bathroom downstairs, and you know, there's a guy who stabbed someone.
And they both looked at me, and one of the bloat that stabbed them looked at me, is like, you better not fucking saying it. Yeah, and the guy on the ground going, man, you need to help me. They both they both looked at me in this fucking desperate way, and mate, I was just fucking I thought, fuck, I'm
I'm fucking dead. They've had all these fucking like yeah, scenario is like that, and he and he took this this this mentor took me through all these places and made all these times that you've been fearful, like you've had to start the armor up. You know, you don't. You didn't do this on purpose all of a sudden. Now you're the professional boxer that's putting steroids in the going and fucking wait them, trying to make himself out to be this fucking person. But it's all come from fear.
It's all come from you've been so fearful and so many times that you've had to sort of show something into the world, you know.
And that that would have hurt.
When he first pointed out to you, and that's why why you arek up. But then when you can take a step back and go, okay, you've got me there.
Yeah, But that's how we built the relationship with me because because he knew here his small windows because I was so shut off to fucking doing his self help or whatever, but he knew he had to reach me, you know. And then that's the way he reached me. I was like, fuck, yeah, you saw me. Yeah, I just knew. I was like, I've got to.
Work with you. I don't know, I don't know why.
I don't know why because you've been pretty fucking rude to now.
But like, credit to him, but credit to you also, because you could have said, oh, that's not the right fit. I don't want to hear your bullshit. Yeah, and stay in your own bulls.
And that's that's the option I have. So I can continue living on with all my ego, all my bullshit bravados and stuff. I can continue on like that and still be that fucking insecure, fearful man and like, you know, fucking punch on if someone ever threatened my fucking you know, authentic self. You know, Oh, I can just take a really honest look at myself and just like, you know, okay,
I don't want to be that person. And so when yeah, like I just where you know, like a housemaid and old roommate and a good mate in my training partner. You know, like you know, he lost his shit at me. You know, you've seen you wanted to knock my fucking head off, and I saw me in him fucking you know, at the end of the day, he's scared, he's any stuff, you know, and not one part of me wanted to hit him or hurt him. Man, you know, you know, it's like you know, I'll see what's behind it.
It's a journey, like I like to think that I become a better person as I progress through life and learn from the lessons, learn more about yourself. And yeah, and it's clearly you're you're someone.
That's absorbed it.
And we'll get onto what you're doing with the rehab. But before we do, at what point you said you're cleaned four years?
Yeah, for just four years two months? Okay?
And was it a mindset or was it a gradual process? Did you you just it's.
A mindset now, it's definitely a mindset. Now, so I've I've turned this into like a process. I've turned my life style into a process. You know. So, like I wake up in the mornings and I've got a way of living that I do every single day. And if
I do that, then I won't use you know. So, But at the start, it just became this this this desperate need to fucking learn how to live, you know, because I had no idea, like, you know, I you know, my role models weren't good role models on how to live with like a you know, a good emotional imbalanced
life and stuff like that. You know, so I looked, you know, when I got clean this time, you know, like I looked to mentors, and I did a lot of like you know, like retreats, like you know, a lot of a lot of men's groups and stuff like that.
Lot you know who he taught me how to bear a father, taught me how to be a proper man, what a proper man is, and you know, how to communicate properly, like you know, what my needs were, what my values were, how to sort of like put boundaries up head just real what what for a lot of people would probably basic you know, stuff like if you're not if you're not raised that way or taught that way,
like when that stuff's complex, you know. And so because I went on my own journey to sort of find that stuff out and stuff like that, you know, and then that became my passion. So well mate, like if I had to do this fucking work to find that out because it wasn't role model for me at home, Like I want to be able to give that to the other people that also liked me, didn't have that stuff role model.
So you you inche or created hope and health. Yeah, yeah, and and what you've just talked there that was emotive for it. You wanted to yeah, help people.
Well, I mean look, I had the initial vision of it, and then my youngest son's best friend, you know, his father, like you know, he does business startups and brand development and stuff like that, you know, for some big companies, you know. And I was just talking to him in
the street, you know. And yeah, so I was I was already in the process of starting his business up and and and he helped me, you know, steer it into what it is now and and through that pros you know, like when when I started talking about my vision of like you know, recovery rehab and stuff like that, made it made the ears prick of other people in the industry that also knew they were working in the industry but also knew deep down that's that's the way
to do it. Well, that's a really yeah, good, interesting way to do it, and attracted these people that left really secure jobs to come and work with us to sort of bring this this vision into into light, you know, and so now and they've had the little influences and stuff like. So my initial vision was, well, you know, I feel like it was good and still there, but it's now like something incredible.
How we describe your initial vision.
Uh was? My initial vision was just to sort of like you know, become more sort of like health conscious in rehab, you know, so instead of like going to rehab and just you know, having vending machines around and you know, and smoking shelters where people just you know, get cafe into the fucking eyeballs and and you know smoke cigarettes at the back and eat shit out of vending machines and stuff like that, you know, popping prescription pills for diagnoses they may not have, you know, like
you know, I thought, well, let's let's you.
Know, before we sort of like, you know, go through that measure.
Let's take the let's take all the junk food aways, get a meeting, good food, Let's get a meeting and get them into training, get him in good physical shape and stuff like that too, and you know, let's look at the lost of factors before we start to diagnose
them and stuff like that. You know, because a lot of a lot of the symptoms, you know, a lot of the symptoms that people are getting diagnosed with diagnoses with are often the same symptoms you know, that people will experience when they're not when they're not training, or they're eating ship food, or they've been drinking too much and stuff like that.
You know.
So I definitely feel like there's a time and place of pharmaceutical for pharmaceutical intervention. But I do think it's there's a lot of people getting diagnosed with things they don't have because they're not willing to sort of look at themselves for you know, they're they're they're in a ship situation alive, and they want someone else to diagnose them.
So they're going to have a pill an easy way out rather than fucking fixing up their life and and and eating better, getting up, training, sleeping earlier, and you know, doing doing the stuff that they need to do. So that that was that was my vision now but now it's something way bigger to know.
Well, it's the rehab program that you've got. I just read out how how it's described. Uh, No, rehababilitation program is complete without an integrated care of your physical, mental, and emotional needs. At Hope Health, therapeutic treatment occurs within a holistic framework, encompassing all aspects of your recovery needs. This rehabilitative approach is grounded in real world experience game from supporting a wide range of clients to achieve tangible
and sustainable recoveries. Our evidence based support structures tested and refined over time, resulting transform lives and ongoing sobrietry. So that's your Yeah, the way that the business is described. But I bring up a couple of points there. It's a holistic approach to it. Yeah, and you've touched on the health and I hadn't really well when I say I hadn't really thought about it, You've bought the point home that Okay, you've got an addiction. Your lifestyle shipped
because of the addiction which comes first, not sure. But if you start to have a healthy lifestyle, what you do a bit of training the difference that that can make and fix that aspect of your life as well as getting you off the off the drugs.
Honestly, for a lot of people, it's honestly that simple. Honestly, and for a lot of people who work with like you know, once they get an experience of what life's like, you know, change those last style factors, then they they're not just enjoying life so much.
I don't go back to their vices.
What we do is we we look at the individual when they when they when they make contact with this
is help. And so instead of we don't do this one program that everyone that you know inquires comes in, do we look at what the individual has done prior, you know, what sort of treatment are done prior what you know, things that may have worked, that haven't worked, and stuff like that, and we you know, and we look at you know, what their sort of goals are and stuff like that, and like you know, what what what what they what they may need, what may work
well for them, things I want to try and stuff like that, and we and we empower them to sort of make their own decisions and what what recovery will look like for them as long as it balances out, you know, their emotional, physical, and spiritual needs. We give them modalities to try and you know, to test run while they're with us and stuff like that, and then we've got case work.
Is that sort of review these these these.
Treatment plans that they're clinical team like doctors, psychologists.
And you've got you've got all that this, Yeah, we've got all that.
Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, we employed doctors, psychologists and psychotherapist stuff. They come up with these treatment plans and stuff like that, and as they get reviewed, they make sure the client actually enjoys doing it, and they also make sure that client's getting results from it, you know. So like if you look at you know, people like myself, I've done plenty of rehab before, and I would be going to
rooms just just for context. I got kicked out the buttery after five and a half months because they thought I was doing no work, you know, because they thought, you know, I'm not being vulnerable, I'm not talking about my stuff. But I came from my world where you know, like you don't fucking talk about anything, you know, Like
I barely even spoke. People used to call me Mumbles because all my conversations were under my breath, like because you do then environment that I was in, you know, and and I hadn't smiled in such a long time, you know, that my facial muscles went all limp, like I didn't trust new one, and so like you know, you couldn't put me with a therapist, and a therapist
couldn't get through to me, you know. But for people like me, when I found breath work, I found meditation, I found acupunctual people stuck needles in it, you know, I dry needling in me, opened up all my meridian systems, unlocked all these like you know, all these like trapped energies and trapped traumas and stuff like that my body, you know, so like I healed through somatic healing, you know, through my body, rather than you know, psychological healing through
like you know, talking out with you know, therapists and stuff like that. You know, like I can do that now, like now these conversations I'm having with you now, like I can do that now as a result of healing through my body, you know, through through somatic work, you know, so instead of having one program. We go, mate, everyone's going to get this topic. We're going to get someone
in to talk to you about triggers and family. And if you can sort of like you know, be vulnerable enough and absorb information like that enough and like apply that information into your life, great, you know. But if you can't and you and you won't, then then you then you're fucked. You know. You leave rehab, you'll get your clean time, but you're leaving your fucked you know. And so we want to make sure that no one
suit of cracks. It's like the education system. You know, school will teach one way, and if you can't learn that way, you're fucked, you know, like you know, a good teacher will teach the student the way they learn. You know. We want to make sure that we help people recover the way that they will heal, you know.
And so it makes sense the way the way you're explaining it, and that trying. It's not a one stop program fits all. You've got to cater for the individual. But you're talking breath work and meditation and all that that helps create a balance life, doesn't it.
Mate?
For sure?
For sure, I may not look look at with their with their with their head shaves and tatoos and stuff like that, but made that that spiritual, spiritual practice is made.
It's that was for me, That was my That was what got me clean. You know.
It was like, you know, it was how I actually understood what was going on for me, is like to how I could actually sit in that silence and not get fucking completely tortured by it. I kept on going back there, even though I was so uncomfortable for me to sit and sit in silence. I kept on going back because stuff was getting revealed to me by doing it. You know, the discomfort I was feeling from just going somewhere fucking quiet without distractions was where all these answers were.
Coming to me, you know.
And and you know, look, I believe, I believe meditation is for everyone. I believe we're actually I feel like we're all meant to be doing some sort of self inquiry.
Well, it's starting to become more acceptable. I've been doing it for thirty years. And when I first started doing it, what's this weirdo cop doing this meditation? And what you've just said, And I think this is a good message for people that haven't meditated, that it is so confronting to sit down and meditate. Like if I was stressed work, I'm thinking I just want to go for a run because I just run or box or do something. Because
then I'd not kept in my thoughts. It took more strength and effort to sit down and meditate and just slow your mind down and just process everything. And it was so confronting sometimes, and people think, and I try to explain that in my very I'm no expert by any means, but it's like saying I'm going to run a marathon without training. You can't just go, I'm going
to meditate without putting the effort in. So you would have to sit down and you would have to allow yourself to sit in that quiet that sit in that space. But the benefits that I got, I don't do it every day now, but I have it there as a tool if I need to. If I'm stressed out about something or out of step with something, I can sit down and meditate. So I get what you're saying, because otherwise, if you're just treating the physical addiction, the chances are
you could fall fall back into it. You've got to off something else.
Not just the chances like the reality is you probably will, you know, because it's you know, everything is caused and effect. So when you when you're not traveling, well you know, and then you you know, you you block it with a substance, and a substance you know, it gets you high and like you know, and then you have affairs or you go to gamble or you you know, or cost your money. You put yourself in financial troubles and
it costs your business stuff, your fucking business relationships. All that, all the business stuff and the family stuff and all the relationship stuff, the problems. That's all the fucking symptoms of the cause, which is us, you know.
And so what we do is.
Instead of managing the drug or the type of substance that it is and like how often they use it, like you know, in whatever way, it's like maybe we don't even look at that stuff so much. It's so you know, we go, well, why do you need to have a substance?
So what what what is it?
What is it in you that you know that that you need to like you know, block out, like you know, and what is you need to struct from?
So you're treating the cause, but why they're why they're using the drug.
Yeah, we're treating the person. The person is the cause.
And when people come in, you know, like, we don't do fucking you know, we don't well, we don't just it. We do do psychotherapy, sessions, groups and stuff like that. It's important, but that's not all we do. Like that, that's that's that's dealing with the effects of like us, you know, but we actually go to heal the person in there too. Everything that we experience on the outside, well is just a direct reflection of what's happening for
us internally. So instead of trying to fucking work everything out on the outside, like you know, if we want to, we want a better life on the outside, we're just going to create a better internal world for us inside. You know.
Okay, how many people have you got working? It's been up and running now for what three four years?
Yeah, I think we've got about thirty eight staff, I think.
Yeah.
And what do they include? You've got medical, Yeah.
We've got We've got doctors, nurses, psychologists, psychotherapists, carriers, chefs, you know, cleaners, yoga instructors, breath work constructors, case.
Managers and how many people do you have coming through?
So we've got we've got two venues now we've got one that were just open. So we've got one in Podsville, which is northern New South Wales. Let's got a capacity of five, and then we've got a capacity of nine up on gold Case. Okay, yeah, So we do ours quite intimate a couple of reasons. A because you know, we want to make sure that people don't feel a crossophobic in there. You know, that people got a bit of space where they're living and stuff like that and
not stepping on each other's toes and stuff. But also like you know, when people are working with the real deep rooted trauma, which is what we really want to focus on. So when I said what we healed the person, you know, we go we go into their staff, you know, into the you know what's actually what's actually causing that real fucking you know, the discord in them, the real disturbance in them. You know, once you start to uncover that, you know, unless they feel comfortable to bring that out,
they won't, you know. And so it has to be like a quite safe intimate environment and stuff like that. So which means not too many people and also the people that we do bring in they're there for the right reasons, you know, So when we do our phone assessments and stuff that there's people getting pushed into go by their wives or their partners and stuff, we don't
we don't let them come in. You know, we're telling they're welcome, they come in when they're ready, but we won't take them in unless they're and unless they're open, willing and ready to do the work that's that's in there. Then it becomes not you know, it becomes not safe for the people that are already in there doing the work. So it's got to be like a and we've got we've got to take ownership of that, you know.
That's to get the right people in, the right pa, the right people in. Yeah, we're going to make sure.
That because I would imagine in that environment, if you brought the wrong person in, he or she could corrupt the other other people.
Yeah, for sure, which is a big, a big probable I was saying about too, because we're working with a lot of first responders too, you know, you know, we work with copies. The coppers can't share the same space as like a fucking cream because neither of them will feel comfortable, you know, what I mean, neither of them feel comfortable opening up about what they've what they've experienced.
You know, if they pushed themselves to that, they realize they're both the same, They're they're both the same on different speces.
Well, what what what I've learned since I've I've left the cops and sitting down talking to all sorts of people here, we're not that not that different.
It's just like that's definitely my that's definitely been my experience since doing this work too. But just to give you know, like you know, when people got a short period of time to do this sort of work, you know, it just it just makes sense not to mix them into the same.
And so do you get I think I read on your website you get military people coming through is it post traumatic stress and addiction coming from that.
Or well generally, I mean generally generally drug and alcohol they're not the problem. They're they're they're the solution to the problem often, you know, you know what I mean.
So people have used.
Them as a solution to whatever, you know, whatever, you know, what what whatever they've gone through throughout the life, whatever has affected them through life. You know, it later becomes a problem because they use it dysfunctionally and stuff like that, you know, but then they believe, you know, that that's the problem, you know, Like I did too, like because when when I went to rehab the first few times, you know, I thought it was you know, I thought I had a drug problem.
What I really had is a life living problem.
You know.
That's that's I think that's a valuable point to make that when you break it down that simply because I'm thinking, you get the rehab because you're a heroin addict, but now you go in the rehab because you've got all these issues within in your own life, and the heroines the end of it.
And that's that's the difference between our programming, that cause and effect program. We love the cause, like the heroines under the effect. That's that's a that's a byproduct of the fucking cause, the traumas that's in the person.
You know, Like, but what healthy person is.
Going to just go sticking needles in his arm random, no one, you know, Like, there's something in that person that is so fucking in a in so much fucking pain, despair, and you know that they need an outlet like like that they're willing to risk their life for every shot just to not feel the way they're feeling. Like, man, like, you can't you can't take that stuff lightly, you know what I mean. You can't just go, oh, he's just gotta got a heroin problem and we'll put him on
some methadone. Like, no, he's got a fucking he's got a life living problem. And there's part of me feels so disconnected from this world and who he is and stuff like that. Let's try to fucking instead of masking it with like, you know, another drug, which is only going to further suppress what he's actually trying to fucking you know, we're trying to come up, you know, let's let's actually let's hear him, you know, and part of
the individual treatment plans so people actually get hurt. Let's listen to the individual client, you know, and what what they actually need from us, and let's help them get those results. You know, Otherwise you just you don't get heard, you know, you just come in. It's like this is our program, Come do this. I hope it works for you.
Now that you've been running for a couple of years, you've had a success and people that you look back and your employees with the results that the programs getting.
Yeah, absolutely absolutely, we're collecting data as well. So well, at some point, at some point, you know, we're gonna you know, we're going to challenge the system a little bit, you know what we already are, but like you know, but you know, we want to We want to show people that, you know, this isn't an ego thing at all, you know, this is just like we just want to make sure that the other people know that there is another option, you know, So if other people, particularly the
ones I love to work with that are the ones that have been through a lot of rehab before and through the cracks, you know, And I just want to make sure that that people know.
It's like mane, We're not.
Necessarily everyone's best option, but we're a option that's out there for people that have tried other ones, you know. And so like you know, when people are you know, fucking they're in despair. Families are in despare because they feel like they tried everything.
It's well, try us, And is there a government support? Is the government funding?
Has it not yet? Look, I hope to get there. There isn't There isn't yet. I mean look there, you know, there's the private and public sector and stuff like that. You know, so like you know, when when you when you go private, you've got the flexibility to do what you want, what you feel, and that's what we're doing now.
But like I said before, we're measuring up. So we're collecting data and stuff and like that, and we will not eventually, like you know, be able to present that too, you know, to the governments and stuff like that, go well, look this is these are our results. Yeah.
Well, when you get all that data and the results base, but how are you finding it personally? It's a business, it's obviously a passion.
It's a business, but it's a calling. It's more than a businessman, you know. It's like I've run a lot, I've started, run and sold quite a few businesses over my time, and they've all seemed like worked to a degree, you know, like this is this is a calling out bounds, out of bed. It's cost me a couple of relationships, and I know that right now. It's I'm obsessed with it,
like I was. I've got time for nothing else, man, and I love doing what I'm doing, you know, because I honestly feel like I'm doing something really fucking special in this space. I'm not saying that as an ego thing. Man Like, I don't, I don't need recognition for it. I feel like we're really revolutionizing this industry, not because we're doing anything fucking that. We came up with everything
that I'm doing in this rehab space. This information is already out, that is already it's already proven that this
stuff works right. But to actually get into a business model is quite tricky because when you're doing individualized treatment plans, and when you've got a capacity of like you know, fourteen fourteen people in total, and they're all doing their own program, and you've got cares and employees, like you know, in case managers take clients to all these different appointments because they're not all just getting shipped on one minibus to one area. You know. Yeah, it's not all you know,
thirty people doing yoga. You might have wanted to doing yoga while the other's getting macupuncture, you know, but we're giving the individuals what they actually need. So operationally, logistically, it's it's it's a it's a trickier business. It's certainly a far more expensive business to run, and where we're
at the cheaper end of private re still expensive. Fortunate when when you when you're employing doctors and nurses and psycho therapists and psychologists, made the overheads go through the roofs. So we're conscious of that. So we make it as cheap as possible to open up the market to as many people as you can while also keeping the business to float.
You know, how how long is someone in the program? For general?
It depends man generally, anywhere between a month and three months is generally what we get. But the old people stay longer. But we don't take anyone less than a month. Now, you know, like seeing a lot of a lot of probably rehabs do people a week or two, we just stopped offering that, you know, we we we we did a couple of people for two weeks, and we stopped doing that because I just think.
You think you need a little bit more.
It just seems like a bit of a money grab thing for me now, like I feel like it's going to tarnish my brand if I do that, like it may it opens your market right up. And if you if you don't get people for two weeks and sell people on the idea that they're going to get clean and their whole lives could be fixed in two weeks. You'll make a shipload of money, you know. But like, yeah,
you're selling false streams. And when you when you when you're on the phone to these vulnerable people, their anxious families. If if you can honestly you can honestly do that, yeah, good on you con advantage people like that. And even the ones that we got in, they pressured me into that, you know. And and when when when I actually decided to give it a go, you know, I made them know really that I don't feel like it's a good idea.
I highly recommend the extend these days, they didn't, and we haven't had success with two weeks, you know, and so like you know, I'd rather just not do it, rather just go maybe let someone else take the shitty data, you know, Like you know, we want to.
Make sure that makes sense.
Yeah, we want to make sure that that people get a they get they get an experience with us, you know, Like I feel like it takes at least four weeks to get that first bit of experience where where like the nutritious food and the exercise and the they're the mindful.
Technique and stuff that.
Yeah, it takes, you know, like it takes about like, you know, a month before the neural chemistry even starts to take a bit of a shift and like you know, sell sell your sistance that you know, replenish itself to sleep cycle start to sort of you know, like you know, level themselves out. Takes about before you even realize, oh fuck, you know, maybe I'm maybe I haven't completely done a
number of myself. Maybe I can come back to something fucking better, you know, like as we want to make sure everyone at least gets that experience, you know, it's what we call ourselves hope and health to like you know, I hope. We want to make sure that everyone gets the experience of hope where they where they go. Okay, well you know.
Now I could do.
Better, you know, And I love this. I love this experiment I did on hope. You know, whether they had rats and water, you know, where they swim for three minutes and they all drowned, you know, and they put more rats in water, and when they started to struggle, they took them out, they warmed them up, and then they put them back in and I swim for like twenty thirty minutes. Seriously, that was that was a real experiment.
And so so when we give people the experience of hope, you know, and they realized, fuck it, because I've gone the rehabs when I already thought I was fucked. I thought I was done. I already thought my mind was cooked. I thought my fucking I thought my body was thrashy, you know, I thought I'll do were we had to
get a couple of people off my back. And you know, when you had that experience, it's like, you know, all of suddens, like you've eaten a meal that you've actually digested and then you've just automatically you just use all of a sudden, just slept four hours, you know, all of a sudden, like maybe not in severe body aches and pains and you know, the cold sweats are stopped and like you know, and you're like, you know, yeah,
your nervous and started to regulate, you know, and you're like, oh, fuck, you know this is what Yeah, it's actually maybe I can make it, you know, maybe can make it, you know, and just that the energy and the power of that hope, you know, it can catapult you. You know, like I said, if you can make rat swim another twenty five minutes, imagine I can do a fucking human makes sense, Like, you know.
What, what about your yourself, Nick, Like what structures have you got in place? Because there's always hurdles around the corner, all different things. But I read that you get up at one thirty.
In the morning, Yeah, thirty every morning, Yeah, and do your.
Training and talk us through that, because I think there's a lot to be said for early rises.
Yeah for sure.
So Like the reason I start getting up at one thirty is because my mentor taught me how to meditate. He said to me, if you get up between one thirty and three, it's the quietest time. It's when they when they're there, when they're conflicting, disturbance of energies of people and all that piece, because they're all asleep, you know.
So if you can medical everything catches rhythms, you know, like when women hang around together, the cycle together and stuff like you know, if I yawn, you catch my yawn and stuff that, you know, So rhythms catch each other, you know. And and when you meditate between one and three, like you meditate into the most pure rhythm you know, and so like you know, you know, you're going to be the most grounded throughout your day if you get up at that time, you know, and meditate that time.
Because I got so used to meditating at that time. I was already up at that time, so I thought I'd just start kicking on my day then, you know, so I do my training, I do my walking, and
and there's no disturbance. Man, there's no disturbance. And because like you know, just I had to sort of switch on a little bit spiritually as well, you know, like it just affected everything else I was doing so well, you know, so like you know, when I'm at the gym and I get on my phone, I don't do anything else, Like you know, when I'm between one thirty and seven am, hardly anyone's around, and it's just I've just got that time with just myself, you know, so
like I get really I'm really clear on who I am today because I spent so much time on my own, you know. Like you know, like I said, I've just gone through a relationship breakup with like the you know, with the girl of my dreams, Like I've fucking adore her, you know, but I'm also completely okay with my own now, you know, Like, yeah, I miss her, but like I'm so okay in my own space that like I don't fucking have to, like you know, run back to something.
I know it's not going to assume me because of that, you know, because I've spent all this time my own now, like you know, being so okay in you know, And.
What do you put that down to the structure and the processes you having a lot of times, you know, people are defined by their relationships or whatever, and you know, if there's a breakup, people people feel destroyed.
What are you.
Saying that, Yeah, because you've talked about the lady and you loved it and then it's over for whatever reason. But you're you're fine with what you're Yeah.
Oh, I mean I'm still processing.
I'm still grieving and still still but I'm fine because like I know, I know that I've got a process in my life that if I follow this process, I wake up, I do my breath work, I do my visualization, I do my light therapy. I'll put these intentions into a light and absorb that in my cell systems and.
Stuff like that.
I have my cold showers, I get up and meditate, and I train, then I do my walking and stuff like that, you know, and then I eat my nutritious.
Food and stuff.
And you know, so if I got this process that I live by, you know, and it doesn't matter what happens in my life, I was going to make or do this process, so it doesn't matter how I feel. Because there's process driven people and there's emotional driven people. And so the emotional driven person will wake up and go, fuck, I don't feel like doing that today, so I won't.
The process driven people will wake up and go, this is what I do, This is how I live, and so regardless of anything, this is what I'm going to do, you know. And so when you've got a process, like life still happens, like life will still throw you all sorts of curveballs, but like the process that you've developed just makes it all manageable. You know, if your emotional driven person, like you could be going really fucking good, you motivated at the gym, and everything's going really good,
you go through a breakup. All of a sudden, you're in a fucking heartbreak, and you fucking throw your whole life out the window. So I'm experiencing heartbreak. I'm experiencing grief, but I'm also doing that, you know, while I'm doing my process. So the process keeps me good, keeps me stable,
and so that's what I do. I try to I try to help people develop a process of their life, you know, where they realize what they actually want, who they actually want to be, get really clear on who they want to be, and then I help them develop habits they get there. It takes all the guests work out of out out of achieving what they want in life. You know, because if you know, if you wake up in the morning, go fuck, I hope I have a good day today. I hope some opportunities come to me today.
It's like maybe you're you're fucking you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're hoping for a miracle. Whereas in like, if you've got habits in your life that will take you there, and every day you're just doing the things that take you there, you'll get there.
Regardless I get where you're coming from. I'm an early riser and I love I'm not one thirty, but at four o'clock most mornings, and regardless of what time I get to bed of four o'clock get out, and I feel like I've cheated the world in that I've got so much, so much done. I've done my training, I've had a sauna, I've had a cold shower, I've even done some work, and I've had had a nice breakfast.
And at seven o'clock on the rest of the world, the alarms are going off and people are getting up, and I feel like I've got an advantage over Yeah.
Because I actually believe that you have. I believe you have cheated the world. I believe there's a there's an there's an energy, and there's a level of productivity that can be that like every every.
Minute like it quates like an hour, what you can get.
Done in that time is supernatural, like you know, because there's just no disturbances, you know, you know when when when you when you're sort of like if you're a nine to five guy, you wake up at nine and you finish at five. Mate.
Yeah, Yeah, You've just got.
So many disturbances and so much.
Like you know, frantic ship around you.
It's hard to make like it's hard to make good clear decisions, it's hard to be focused, it's hard to sort of be regulated, so you know, you're reacting to a world rather than sort.
Of you wake up to the chaos if you get up later. I know what you're saying. And I feel like I got a little smile on my face every time I'm walking out and past all the neighbors, all the apartment I'm in, and everyone's asleep, and I'm thinking, I'm rocking this already, I've done some work. I'm about the train beautiful.
And then and the other thing is that you will finish your day the way you start it. They're saying, like when the morning, when the night day or something? You know, but you know that actually good, there's science behind it. Like you finished your day is the way you start. So if you start your day with all these winds stuck in, all these wins, man like you, you you go to sleep feeling so accomplished. You know.
I find it also nourishes you in that. Especially when I was in the cops, like I'd like the train early in the morning, a job could come in and that means I'm not going to be able to train, I'm going to be working through the night. But I was happy, and a couple of people I worked with that I would train with we're happy if we got our training done and it didn't matter what happenediable because we've done something. I felt like it was doing something
something for yourself. Look, they're simple, what you've described, and when you when you break it down, it seems so simple in the way that you describe it. But it's something that we've forgotten in life, isn't it.
Yeah, And that's just it. It's so simple. It's just not easy. Yeah, it's just like, you know, the actual formulae is so fucking simple. Like it's just like it's understanding what you want, you know, creating a structure of process to get it, you know, and then the only hard part is just committing yourself every day to do
it in regardless of how you feel. You know, people's feelings, you know, are so fucking that they're controlling their lives, you know, and they're they're they're sabotage in their life
because of their feelings. I listen to their feelings rather than sort of like, you know, you know that they're getting suck into the instant gratification of a sleeping or a cheap meal or like a fucking you know, or something quick, rather than sort of like you know, prolonging their gratification to their fucking their goal, to the to the purpose the promises that are made to themselves.
Yeah, well, look you're you're living, breathing proof that you can turn your life around like that.
The path that you're on.
And look at now when you're talking, I haven't interrupted much because I can see you're just the passion is coming out and the excitement of what you're doing and what you're what you're achieving. Where do you You've got plans future? Where do you where do you see yourself? Yeah?
I mean right now, like i'man you know, I'm a full dial in mode with hope, with hope and health and stuff like that too. I would like to get myself to the stage where you know, I'll probably slow down a little bit more and stuff too, and then I may be in that space I can actually have a proper relationship and sort of meet meet my partner's needs and stuff like that, and.
Like you know, and give them what that is.
I share, share your pain my Like I've been passionate with my work and doing stuff and the relationships have been up and down and all that, so I know what you're saying. And when it's all said and done, when you've got everything your t tick tick, you're feeling good about yourself, that the next thing is is find your self someone that you're you're happy to spend time with.
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
And you know, like I don't believe that, you know, you need to have it all all the time. You know, I believe there's times and places for things and and right now, like you know, getting you know, getting this vision where I want to get it to is just that's that's where, that's where I want to put my focus, what I want to put my energy on and stuff like that too. So I go, right now, I'm giving that time. But yeah, you know, long long term, long term, I want to be able to.
Do more of my coaching stuff.
I want this re ad to go out on big scale, you know, I want this to be you know, I wanted to be all over the country. I want everyone to be able to have access to it all over the place, you know, because I think it's I think it's that I think it's such an important option to have for anyone, you know. But like you know, when when you're when you're getting you know, funding from like you know, government bodies like d v A or workover
or whatever. You know, you've got to do things a certain way, to conform, to perform a certain way too, like you know, even though, like you know, even though we have a specific way of doing it, and they're like, you know, it's great, you know, but I love doing coaching stuff too, which is the stuff I do on the you know, on the side, you know, because I feel like I can do so intimately. I do it one on one. I don't do these group zoom calls.
I do one on one coaching with my clients. It's the way I do it, you know, Like and like I just love doing that, you know. It's like I can I feel like I get to know my client really really well, and I can sort of shift his program to suit him better. And I just love it, you know, And like.
It's good for the soul if you're helping helping people, and yeah, find a business and what you're doing and the passion for what you're doing and helping helping people. So if people want to find out about Hope in Health, where can they find you?
Our website is ww dot Hope Inhealth dot com, dot au uh and then like an inquiry email there which will we'll get email to you myself an intake manager, and we'll get back on.
Oh look good good stuff. And I like the fact. Also what you're saying is that it's an option. Yeah, consider it. You're not saying this doesn't work or this one's better than that.
This is an option. Have a look at it for sure.
For sure. Yeah, you know, not about that, not in competition with anyone, So it's not about competition. We want to make sure that you know, we refer other people onto other realps, you know, if we feel like, yeah, if we feel like we're actually not the best option, but particularly we'll fare them on.
But we are.
You know, we believe we are a really good option for you know, a huge for a huge percentage of people with addiction. You know, because of our individualized approach, we feel like we can we can, we can nearly reach everyone.
Well, you got that lived experience, and I think that carries carries a lot too. But look, full credit to what you're doing. And I like your take on take on life. You've taken a little way to get there, a few few up ups and downs, but yeah, it's made you the person you are now and you're doing some good work, so full credit to you. And let's thank our mate ron Isherwood for putting us in touch the EPET.
Yeah, what a legend.
Thank you, thank you, class class person. So thanks very much.
Good on, Gary, Thank you so much. Matte really appreciate it. Cheers