Ex bikie boss exposes truth of underworld: Jay Malkoun Pt.2

The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective see aside of life the average person is never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys, said, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

Thanks.

Okay, So in part one we're talking that you got out of prison and you felt twelve foot tall. You had a fortunate situation where eight hundred and eighty thousand dollars was going to one eight one hundred eighty. Yeah, you wouldn't be here still spending it. And also you became a promator for an opera singer and all sorts of things. I'm looking at your life there, and I'm looking at your life through what I was reading your book,

I would never thought myself in the club. I mean, when we were grown up, the bikers were old school bikies and this is something I was not attracted to. But a friend of mine started the club in Melbourne and they're going to fly the flag. But they had issues now and then, and you would often call me to help resolve some issues. And I met, I met the guys, the hierarchies, and they were I was instantly attracted to them. It was something I notice I'm not seen for a long time.

You said you met with the upper leaders.

Yeah, the leaders and champion blokes like proper, proper, and they were united. They were a brotherhood and they all they all ran the ball. There was no there was no shyness amongst any of them, and they had so much respect for each other. It was like, it's the way it should be. I don't know how it is in other clubs, but in this particular club. This is why they grew so strong so quick as they were united and they were capable and they were fucking willing.

So you on that. And we don't need the name names, but a couple of things. I understand the language, but run the ball. These were people that would step up if they needed to step up, and that's something that you respected.

They would step up instantly, like there's no shyness, there's no let's talk about this, let's see how we're going to go, going to go this week, and there's like fuck that, let's go and you know they're but they were all like that. When I say all the ones that i'd met are very cool individuals, it's very hard to resist that. I mean, I just I was incarcerated for ten years. I mean all sorts. Yeah, individual you know, individuals that was equally is hectic.

And being attracted to that, I think it would be fair to say. And I don't think ego is necessarily a bad thing, but it would be striking your ego being part of a group or so.

These guys are monsters in the industry, These are these are the alphas.

But yeah, getting back to what it attracts you, and I think if people are on us, there is an ego because the alpha mile you're part of a gang, a very big game. You walk somewhere, you're part of the gang. You give them respect, whether it's in a club or wherever you're going.

But having said that, so to catch up your independence. Still, if you have a problem, they expect you to sort your own problem out. You can all rally together like a football team. So let's go and get them. Okay, you got a problem, sort that, mate. You know, if you can't sort that, why are you part of us? Because we can sort of our shit out.

Okay.

They weren't there to lend a hand and help you step up and do your ship. You sort your own fucking shit out, all right.

Now. They were looking at or they had a chapter set up down in Albourn, and that's what you went to. Yeah, no, you didn't. You didn't go as a normal.

So I met the guys a couple of times. They really liked me. They knew about me, they'd heard a few things. I did the due diligence, and they offered me a role. And it was hard to resist when you got I had so much respect for these guys, yeah, for their achievements and what they're capable of. Asking you to jump on, and I was like, sure, let's do it.

It would be a stressful role trying to manage, manage, or lead a outlaw motorcycle gang. In that there were Wow, guys, you're going to have to keep them in line. So when I say stressful, there'd be a lot of work that you've got to do to keep them in line.

I see, I took a page out of mctoomb's book. Okay, Yeah, we end up with three chapters, nearly four and a lot of members, and I made all the decisions. But I didn't allow them to make decisions. Now the president's no one. So we'd have our weeklies. I'd chair all the meetings and we you know, we'd all out and I'll let them have a pretend vote and to just tell them how it's going to be. Okay, problem with both clubs, and when you're dealing with multiples, not all

That's going to which what happened?

Yeah, no consideration of you know, what can the possiblity be who's going to get arrested? You know who's going to be He's going to get fucking hurt.

Well, if they do that, it's inevitable that ship's going to go down. And yeah, so they had that.

In my absence and that's what they voted, So clearly I sort of that out. But this is why I ran. I made all the decisions made.

Okay, did they fall in the line.

It was an optional. You have to lead with aggression otherwise you're not going to be respected. I'll let you know that. If there's a crack or a weakness, somebody will have a crack. So you know, you just got to stay on top of all that. You have to be feared. I mean, look, there's one there's a few members in a few clubs that are the alphas, and that's because they're fucking feared for good reason, you know how it is?

Yeah, I think and it's personally. I love hearing this because I know that is that is the world, and quite often people don't speak so openly. So yeah, that is the world that I understood that the way it operated. So you enjoyed the role.

I enjoyed it for a minute. It was good when we was small, and then we grew and it became you know, still manageable, but it becameted becoming hard work. Like you said, the more you have to people you have to manage, the more issues that and plus like you know, I had members that were just below me, that were younger and ambitious, and it was time for them to step up. They wanted to step up, and it.

Was it was actually their time succession plan.

Yeah, absolutely, so I'd planned my own time for six months, so it wasn't something I just decided to do. And I had discussed that with the high rarch if over a six month period, and the person that was going to take over, he was keen to take over, you know, he was the man for the job.

A couple of things, and I'm not delving into the biky world, but you made a point there that, Yeah, as it got bigger, it got harder to manage because you're bringing people in, i know, with clubs. And this is just my observation from where I was sitting on the on the other side that when there was recruitment and they bought a lot of people in, there was more problems because they were bringing dickheads in and all

We also get the ones that want hard in a club because they're up to the near various activities. Yeah you know, whatever they're doing, so they need a bit of protection. They come on as good blokes and they're just using the club for protection. So it's hard to wear. You've got to be through all that shit, and it does happen. They get through, and it's easy to be a good bloke for a short period of time. Convince someone that you're all that Ye sneak through the cracks.

Oh well yeah, in any walk of life. And I found that interesting that your book talking about the world in bikings, but it's corporate world. There's a lot of things. That's a police organization. There's a whole thing, a whole lot, and some of the stuff you could almost do a leadership talk. And it's a strange form of leadership leading an outlaw motorcycle gang. But there were issues that arise in in any organization.

Absolutely. I mean, just jal with personalities, aren't you really Yeah.

Yeah, he goes personalities and then the people undermining and I saw where you've had people undermining.

You, Oh they have a crack. You've got to deal with it.

Most definitely. I think if you don't deal with people undermining and I'm not talking just Bikis here, I'm talking in any organization. In my own experience in the cops, I underestimated people that were undermining me. I thinking they're just useless, lazy pricks that I don't really care about. But when they spend their whole time trying to fuck you, yeah, yeah, yeah, they can do some damage, saying one rotten apple spoils a great very much so, very much so. Now leaving

A lot of clubs are like that, they own you. I mean, like in my experience, there's just such cool individuals. They the hierarchy, the ones that are gravitated towards you know, they're in the club, they have their life outside the club. It's hard to put your finger on it. Coming from my background. For you, you probably wouldn't appreciate it. For my background, violence, incarceration, drugs. Seeing these guys in the way they held themselves and carried themselves in their willingness,

You brought in a bit of style to the fashion sense.

Well, I know they were fashionable. They were driving the g wagons and the Lebiennis. You know, my car wasn't that lumpy.

Okay, So when did you join them? When did you get out rough figures eleven to two thirteen. Okay, yeah, when you joined so in there for two years. Okay, you've probably got the out at the right time.

Yeah. Look when I left was it was still okay, it was still okay. There were the state's run differently in Victoria. I don't know how it's running here and I still haven't got my head around it. But the when the police of the police there and there, they don't fuck around, bro, I mean they you know, they do the job, do it effectively. You fuck up, we catch you, We're going to put you in jail. We don't catch you, We'll catch you eventually. I don't know

I was just going to check it.

If you want to drive around with your colors, drive an your colors. I mean, if you're gonna playup and you're gonna wear your colors, you're putting a tag on your back. Yeah, but listen by, clubs have misunderstood. For the most part, bike is joined bike clubs to ride

I was going to say, when when you were in the bike club, like the game comes first, how did you manage family? Did you have in a relationship? First?

Family? Camp first? Yeah, family, then work then gang. I mean, if you didn't have your family support and didn't have a job, you're not good to meet mate. If you can't pay your duties, fuck off. Someone's going to pay the rent, you know what I mean? Like, so family first, if you didn't have stability and you weren't employed, you were going to be a problem. That's how I perceived it. So more my guys worked.

How do you and your reference it in the book where we don't have to go in the specific details. But yeah, you're running a chapter, this is your turf. Someone from a rival gang moves in too close? How do you negotiating skills manager twice? How did you manage that?

You know, move on, bro.

You just said, excuse me, we're here.

Here's the thing. We were there first, and I knew both presidents and they're both good blokes from different teams. And the first one he didn't know what were there because this is just when I first jumped on. And like I said, the other three guys didn't do it. They didn't fly the flag. So they had a clubhouse next to a massage parlor.

That's not a good look.

No, it was more of a gage that they never attended, They never wrote, never wore their colors, and no one knew they existed. So this fellow opened up a clubhouse literally two blocks down the road. So when I told him we were here. He was surprised, but he respected they were there first. So it's like you to move. You've got to move, bro, And I said, let me give me, give me an hour. I'll go get the president. We'll talk about it. This is when I first came

Oh, that's yeah, this is the leader. There's no much respect there.

So I went back and saw the other fellow. I said, listen, I'll tell we're going to do it. Just up the road there is Paul Malvin. There's plenty of fucking factories. It's another suburb. I'll pay the bond, I'll take the rent that you've paid already, and you can just go up the road. And there was the agreement we made. So I succeeded in taking the clubhouse off another club. So when Dax came out to see this, count Mike president,

It was hiding what you had done?

He didn't tell him. That's when I threw the towel and I said, there's nothing me but you hang on, Hang on a minute. That's what happened. Listens, Yeah, bro, I didn't tell you. He said, no. He was fucking thrilled that it happened, and he goes made us listen, I'm just going to drop the colors off now. I don't want to play this game because no, no, you stay. He's got to go. So they tipped him. Okay, that's how it became president, and rightly so, so he went shopping the cols.

I look completely different world, but I know in the cops, if running the job, I expect, what do you mean you can't work this weekend? The job's on. We've got to do it. So it happens. But no, you're giving us an interesting insight. You got out of the gangs, and then is that the period of time where you wanted to distance yourself from everything here and you went over and lived in Jubai.

I was working for a couple of mining companies. I was making really good money.

Tell us about so tell us about that. Again, you don't have to break it down specifics, but where there's the money come from working for mining companies with a person of your type of skills and.

Bad predominantly from well, I was protecting one particular guy. But when you do mediations for them, like a partnership dissolves, particularly on one partnership had dissolved, and I was dividing everything up and there was one company that was worth a lot of money still not arguing about it. And I happened to be in London when this is all happening, and I was off for the job of getting the guys to drop off and let them deal with it

Cash whisper in the microphone. I can still a lot of.

Cash anyway, So I did the job, okay, took ten minutes, and so that was your role.

In mediating, you're okay, well we could go to war on this, or it could get ugly, or.

It's a lizard thing. People know me all right. So the people I was dealing with already.

Knew you come with the reputation, Well I.

Already knew them. There was a degree of mutual respect and understanding, and it was more let's sit down and how we're going to work this out. We're not the enemies. They are the enemies. We need to work this out for them because they're fuck wits. They can't work it out, and that's what we did. They got paid by their bloke,

Could They let's wave in a red flag.

But it took me another year, was up and down. Cost him a stack. But it was okay for me, like.

Don't insult me.

Well, don it's not them. You know, they're serious people as well, like they were doing me a favor. We worked it out as gentlemen. And it can go either way. We can bang it on, they can bang it on.

Did you see this as then like a career path something that we're you're making money and you said, you're always looking for opportunities.

But I couldn't understand. I couldn't. I couldn't believe the amount of money that was involved. It was insane amounts of money. We did stupid shit for a lot less. So I latched onto this team and I hung on to him for the next ten years. And it was great.

It was a great ride, and it took you around the world, didn't it.

Often I'd be in the I'd be all over the world. He loved me. This guy. He had a lot of issues with people in the industry. So then they got to a stage where no one could commute. I was lawed to call him that to call me, and I would decide whether I'm going to let you talk to him or not. And it was really good.

So you would learn from someone on negotiating and seeing that the business level at that well.

I had his partner. He preferred not to be mentioned. He's a very good friend of Minia has been. I'll go old to this guy, and he gave me a lot of direction, and you know, I have to be honest A lot of times he'd be telling me, rattling off stocks and amounts and there's nude. Wouldn't fucking listen. I wasn't paying attention. Clearly, it wasn't paying it because I'm missing on a lot of opportunities. But so he guided me a lot of the way. And that first job,

Big yeah, worse.

Do you know what I did? Oh my god? What After I resolved at frustrated Sydney to the account I said, mate, don't know about that me and it took me ten minutes. Just give me a million. I walked away from seven million shares exactly.

Put yourself up. Okay, so you're making some money, very good money, or the sounds of it. That could have been a lot better if you were actually listening. But you took the family over and moved over to Dubai.

Yeah, we had problems with the schools. My girls were going to Melbum Girls Grammar and the teachers. I was in the media a lot, not for anything I'd done other than it being in a park club and the moms, rightly so would be concerned. But they when we get court in some sort of crossfire. So they were rallying behind our backs to have our kids with me from the school. And they're isolating our children and it's getting

What was the lifestyle like over there?

But I was rolling hard in Victoria. I got whatever I wanted. I get to Dubai and I just didn't rate.

Okay, so let's just what So in Victoria everyone knows who you are. You got money in your pocket.

Whatever, lived well, drove well, respect friends, restaurants, bars, whatever you want.

You're a big fish in a small park. Correct, And then you've gone over there.

I did not rate zero. No one ever finished in my direction, which I didn't mind. I wasn't there for that. But I'm saying the difference in life. I've gone from here to here. It's like being incarcerated again. I going from a penthouse to sell not exactly, but you know what I'm saying. So my life for me was okay because I still had my international shit going on read

So you like you were in a pauper your life wasn't.

I wasn't breadline, no, no, no. We lived. I was fifty five, so the kumula a little bit of wealth over the years. Yeah, and we took a lot with us and plus I mentioned that I only took one billion shares, but he put me on a contract and he paid me very well for the next five years, so he made it all up. Then all my money was getting paid over there because I had money over this in there as well, So it wasn't difficult. And

You enjoying the lifestyle, loved it.

Yeah, good splut. Yeah you've been.

Yeah, I've been.

Yeah, really good spot. You just need a lot of money. You run it real quick.

Policeman's wage didn't quite cut it. But can I can I bring up by Wayne Snyder?

Absolutely?

Okay, so you're you're in Dubai. He was in Dubai. I met Wayne in Dubai and he Hell's Angels.

He was Hell's Angels. I met him in Dubai. He was living in Dubai through a mutual fan. He rang me and said he gave me a story about Wayne. I'd never met him, and he gave him the same story about me, just so we can meet worked. That made him nice boke, and we caught up now then.

But you had like, yeah, the gangs can be rivals, but you can look at an individual.

I was transparent, so I would let the seniors know, Okay, I'm going to catch up with this bloke. Was sweet, yeah, sweet, and so it was all good. I didn't I didn't hide anything I was. I wasn't trying to be tricky or sneaky. Or trying to make friends with the opposition. Yeah, because a lot of the guys don't like for a long time, they wanted him dead. He survived all that. So I went a few times and then he migrated to Thailand. I was going to Thailand every now and then.

Yeah, he must have vouched for it.

But he was a bus so that i'd be I'd be sitting next to him and they can all fuck off. Yell. That's the attitude he had. We just liked each other. It wasn't based on anything other than personalities. We didn't work together. He didn't need me, I didn't need him.

Yeah, it was just a friend friendship.

Yeah, I didn't friendship basically. Yeah, name of a long period of time, so there wasn't much foundation there. But we you know, we we clicked and knew you could trust me because I thought I could trust him, no doubt. Yeah, there was some I mean, I did some work in in Europe. It was from Switzerland, Germany, Austria, and it was a big recovery. I was on and I needed help. So I got onto the I got through through our way and I'm going to the Angels and.

They helped me with the job and were in the era.

Well, the Germans. The Germans, the Angels are very strong right in Germany. So as Chinal was tracking this countdown, he's very been very elusive and had fucking a team watching him for anyway, long story, but the Angels stepped up and helped me and we recovered it. It was good, good job, we'll benefit from it. So that's we had that sort of relationship. And this is legitdn't work, it was it was all conducted in a solicitor's office. So

It was it was from that at that time when he disappeared, or not disappeared, he was murdered.

What happened was he was very sad. But back then Yah, at that time a third person joined us and then he got on the drugs, got on the girls and the next thing, you know, when I have a bit of a crack. Now it's the next day, I get my results. I'm ready to leave. He didn't want me to leave, mate. He wanted me to go to Potato. There was no way I was going to Potato. I've never been a Potato, but I've heard about a Potato.

Uncomfortable, right, so suspicious looking he later, Yeah, I said, I mean, I'm putting the pieces together myself.

I don't know if it's from one point or not, so it could be just fucking off with the fairies, to be honest with you. But he would not not let me go to Potato. I had to go to Potato, mate. So I went to Potato and we were still partying and I eventually went to sleep. Yeah, shit happened.

And let's see he disappeared, and I think his body was found twenty four hours later.

Yeah, but they knew where he was. They had the whole thing sold within, I assumed the first day because there were trackers on the car, they had the car identity immediately, so they tracked the car everywhere.

Did that cause yeah, you lost a mate obviously, But did it cause any dramas? Like? I'm sure there was speculation.

So much speculation, but I well, I was. I was arrested obviously. So I got onto the boys in Turkey it was still the hierarchy and toil them the situation and I saw heavy.

Shit, goodboy putting it.

Yeah, exactly, it's heavy, heavy duty. But yeah, he was just hanging, hanging for a minute. So about six hours later, I get a phone call from an Asian guy says, put your hand up, which one of you. As I see this guy talking on my phone say yeah, he guys, you're coming with me? I said, I'm a where beaus. I've been told to take you to the airport and get you out of the country. Right, Yeah, I'm not going anywhere because then I've been specifically told you have

Right five days? Did you? Sweet Well, I don't know if you've been to Thailand. Now it's over there, they've got all the exchange with the drugs, the grass, cannabis and all that. They've set up cannabis stores right beside police stations. I heard they were doing the backflip again, but earlier on this year.

Yeah, I heard the same And I was in Thailand recently and I was in a bar and a guy came up to me started talking to me like he was x C I A. He'd retired to Thailand because he had something with his brain, a tumor in his brain. And the end there's a drug that could only get from Thailand. So he'd moved to Thailand and he was for medicate with just little purposes. He was on CBD. Well ye, yeah, and this drug and has kept him alive and is fine.

Yeah, years ago, it would have been a completely different different situation. Twenty years not good. We've had a couple of people here that have done some time in Thai prisons and yeah, heavy, heavy scene. All right. Now you've moved from Jubai. You've gone the grease. I think from my reading between the book, you just want a little bit more freedom than you had in Jubai. You've moved to over the Greece.

Look to Bai was good, it was good for a minute. You don't. I mean, it's it's funny enough. I mean for an Islamic country, there's a freedom there you have that you don't have in Australia, but you have to behave you cannot be offensive. So for young children, to bring up young children in that environment, it's brilliant. There's no offensive behavior on television, on the internet, in the street, no one cuddling and kissing. So the kids are just kids.

A bit looser.

That's a lot of fun. Bro I highly recommend it categories there.

It's good.

It's very beautiful country. The beaches are amazing, the food's great. That people are really good and they don't text you too much, like yeah, Lebanon, the what the fucking lot in Greece? I just want to clip.

Okay, So you're there, what you're still doing your consultancy?

Yeah? Yeah, I was doing a few things here and there. The things were drying out because the mining broom had ended.

You went looking for a sunken treasure.

Oh yeah, yeah, black pearl. Fuck me. I was getting ready to buy the penthouse at the Birch Calipher and turned one room into a vault.

I like the story, like everyone once in their lifetime should start looking for some So they found.

The treasure is there? Yeah, there's no doubt about the gold being there. It's actually there. It's sixty meters below water, about thirty kilometers offshore in Ireland. It's fucking there. All the documentations there. The ship's on its side. It's hard to locate. They got a mob out of America that had a laser that would cut the ship up because it was very difficult to enter it. And they spent

You've got some special forces dudes.

And we all special courses because it's the that sea. If a helicopter goes down and have your special course. We all did the fucking course. We had some Navy seals sitting in Denmark. I think it was for two weeks waiting to board this ship. The ship was here, but the last million dollars didn't come through. Whole thing fell over in the last minute. Yeah, I could be fucking loaded right now.

Oh well, at least you're gone, gone for your dreams. Okay, the day of the sorry the rain, and then you could you could have been this. Now I'm going to take you to the car cardboard deep. Okay, let's let's go there. Tell us about that day. That morning, it's usual, just another day.

Got up the kids, get the kids up ready for school. We had a routine.

You were raising the kids on your own, paid the.

Kids for myself increase. I loved it like they had a full time living, a person that would keep the house clean and cook the food and if I needed to except for ten minutes, there was someone there, right So it was great. And they had the tutors and they do went to a really good English speaking private school which wasn't expensive. They had lunch together. The kids were a community. The whole school was a community. It's unlike here, broke like the kids all socialized with each other.

Okay, forgot to pissed off you were You were mister dead Day, just a full time, enjoying life.

I was followed for three days. I didn't even notice. Can you imagine I walk into the room and I check all the exits, look for weapons, have a lot quick look around and say, he is there. I stopped doing all that. I was just cleaning up after the kids, taking them to activities.

All right, I've got a sense of it.

You.

I thought you were a tough guy, but you turned in the midst of mum at this stage. And it's interesting because, yeah, you've lived a life that you've got to be aware of everything. You've got to be alert, you've got to be vigilant. A lot of people come unstuck when they do drop their guard. Yeah, but not not in the form of getting blown up in a car bomb. But you can continue on.

So you know, I dropped the kids to school and I went to the gym. So I assume I don't know, because it's never been confirmed that they probably just put an explosive under the behind the wheel. Because I was parked. It was like a paddock. It was off the street and anyone could stop beside me. Just got out and rolled a little bit of an explosive and waiting for me and activated remotely, which was the police did say it was activaated.

Remotely because you were traveling with the kids in the car earlier on, Well, it was, yeah.

I dropped the school. When I got to the school, I heard a fucking horrendous screech coming from in front of the steering wheel. So I turned the car quickly and panicked a little bit, thinking, with the fuck, I've never heard that sound. I'm not suggesting the bomb was there, but it was just I'm just telling what actually happened that morning. It doesn't make it so logical to think that they would make that sound, But I heard that sound, and maybe they did put it there prior to that day.

Went to the gym and then you come out.

I come out of the gym walked to my car, opened the door, jump in, Both legs are in the car and the door still open, and the bomb goes off. So when the bomb went off, the air bag went off and pushed my head back into the seat. I didn't get knocked out, so I knew straight away it was an explosion.

It had an and you still had the door open. The probably why a you're here talking.

I'd say so.

Yeah.

So the two things. Mercedes they designed a lot of cars up but particularly Mercedes that if you have a car accident, they head on car accident on impact. It's designed so the engine doesn't fly into you, that the energy is dispelled around you. So this came from underneath where the engine was. The door was opened, so there the pedals break my feet apart from that and it's a bit of fire, a bit of burning, nothing to break about.

All right, tough guy, serious, but yeah, there was significant damage done to your ankle. Which which one was it? You?

It's not traumatizing damage. Could have been a car accident, yeah, could have come off a blake a horse, yeah, couple of horses and make their neck.

So you've got out the way the way you described that, you're worried about a shooter finishing you off, which is, you know, if someone's trying to take you out, then you're still alive. The treatment that you got, that you had thought that you're going to lose your foot.

Well what happened was this is all going in real time for me. I looked down when I know, when I realized my leg was so damaged. I thought straight away, let's cut that off. Get one of those bionic feet like I see. You see pictures of these soldiers with the byonic foot back in his kit back at wall. I'll have one of them. I'll be back at it, and let's get on with it. Let's get these guns, all right, That's all I was thinking about, I mean,

You're good feeling.

I said, I'm good, Yes, you're good. He said can we talk about money? I said sure. I said what do you need? He goes, oh, can you give us cash? Absolutely? How much do you want to get? Ten or fifteen? I said, Jay, given fifteen. It's last surgery. He goes, last surgery, but that's it. Yes, give fifteen euros. Came fifteen thousand euros. And there's this other lady hanging around the background. He's telling her to fuck off. She's admined for the hospital.

They want their boy too.

I had no idea they wanted thirty shit, so we paid them. They're thirty right, And then later that puts you out the thesis. She's come in starts arguing with me, no one's paid her. She's the most important one. Surgeries every fucking second day, mate so much And I said, look, don't worry, I'll pay you directly five hundred euros each time, which was nothing. So she was on the trip. Turns out and needed a lot more surgeries. Yeah, it cost me a fucking stack, but the initial surgery was.

Good and you you got done a full use. But you you're getting around. I'm not noticing it as you came in.

Good revenge, you know, revenge is sweet. Things work themselves out. We'll see how we go.

Okay, I don't say too much. I haven't. I haven't cautioned you. We're sitting here and I catch I just had. I just had to say revenge. It just came across my mind. But the trouble is, I suppose the lifestyle you live, there's a one hundred different people that it could be.

Well, the thing is, this is the strange thing. I'm entrenched in the underworld. I fucking know a lot of people. No one knows who did it, and I didn't die, so maybe it was just a warning.

Well, I've known a lot of people that live the lifestyle you do, and it's a dangerous lifestyle. And quite often I said, it's not the other baddies that's going to get you killed. We know what's going to You've climbed over the wrong fence, and.

Mate, you just don't know because there if it was anyone in my world they'd be bragging about it, and that wouldn't let it. I mean, I've been here for five years. No one's had another crack, so.

Well, that's that's true. If they've had had a go at you and the thought that you might find out they came back it.

Yeah, people I know don't fuck around. So I don't know.

All right the book. You told me that, and it doesn't fit with your tough guy image. But I think it's quite funny that you were writing the book before you got the kids breakfast and took it to school. That's when you're writing the book. The consultants.

That's my quiet time. Yeah, five or six in the morning till seven, seven thirty. I had some quiet time, so i'd bang it out on the computer. A couple of cups of coffee enough.

I went, how'd you find the experience writing it?

No, it's good. I mean it's really good. I didn't there's a lot more stories.

Yeah, I think you just scratched the surface.

But there was enough content there. Everyone's happy with it.

What what gave you the inspiration to write a book?

Greg Roberts.

I was wondering whether that would the case.

So when he flew straight to Spain to Greece. He spent it was looking for him for two days before he found.

Me after the bomb.

This is the kind of guy is finally found me and were sitting there. He is gone, you gotta watch these fucking reporters by they're going to write a book that they have done. Let me register your names and no one else can write it. Then he goes, why don't you write a book? Good turn into something? I mean, seriously, what are you going to do next to you? Sit on your ass? So I did. I mean, I'm confident in a lot of areas, but you know I'm not

Well, it's a good broad and I wouldn't give it a plug if I didn't didn't enjoy it. But I said it to you before. I found it interesting, and I got to say it's raw in a way that sometimes don't see with true crime books, in that it seems like, okay, I get a sense of who you were. When I read read the book, I could pretty much go, okay, I know this this person.

I tried to get. We had a ghostraighter so I'd write it and not expect him to rewrite it and make it give you some substance. And he say no, but it's got to stay in your voice. So he just did a spell check effectively, so it's all in my voice. And you know, I really enjoyed the process.

I think that makes it authentic when it's I can imagine you saying exactly the way it comes. I know when I did my first book, the main thing was it's got a sound like me life advice. You're still here, which is a miracle in itself. How do you look back at your life?

I have no regrets. I regret nothing. I don't regret the ten years jail. It's an experience, like you know, I've been here for sixty ten, was incarcerated, met some interesting people, did some push ups, read a book, and went home, Like you know, seriously.

Okay, can I I'd like that quote? What did ten years? Did some push ups? Read a book and went home?

Basically?

Okay?

I mean, like you know, it all builds your character. When you live in or you get nothing and you have to fight to get what you get, and then you have to really fight to keep it and you might have to stab one or two, or at the risk of getting stabbed. In iron Bart daily Bill's character, you either crumble ory.

Step up, okay, at the risk of pissing people off. Now the criminal world, now, do you think it's easy to be a criminal now than what it was in your day?

Or not at all? I mean, they heard us, they have all the technology. The code is not what it used to be ethically, like we knew growing up, or coughed and told you tell them you don't talk to police. You just don't. You just knew that it's just no comment, only because not because you weren't telling on people, but because they fucking w you. So if you get picked up, you just don't make it. No comments table.

I hadn't thought of it that way, Jay, but I was going to agree with you on the fact that I know my early days in policing, like I started in the eighties, so that's when when I was there old school, it was yeah if And I said to you when you came in here and sat down, I said, yeah, funny in an interview room and I wouldn't even bother speaking to you. And you said, you tell me to get fucked, And I think that's much that's pretty much

Technolo, DNA technology. But look that the policing has evolved, but so are the criminals. Like these guys, you have to be really sharp to kick on and just stay successful. You have to be really really sharp, and you have to be really really willing and have all the technologies that they have that they can afford and just stay ahead of the game. Some some can and some can't.

But it's always changing. And we Yea talked about a norm the telephone next.

Can you imagine that? That was like, thank fuck, I didn't have one.

I got to say, I was out of the cops when it happened. But when it happened, I thought, what a brilliant plan from the cops point of view, And.

It's a brilliant plan, but I mean, you just don't know if it's going to stick really, because.

I know they're fighting fighting, so they should.

It's like it's a you're behind a wall, how can identify that person to that to that to that device. Yeah, you could have the wrong person.

Well technology, i'd yeah, old school days of sitting there and yeah, thinking no one's watching you or listening. It's watching everything change. Well, you walk out in the street, they can pretty well.

These things here, they can activate and listen to us. They can be doing the wrong podcast while you're doing a podcast. Well, if you're doing your podcast, you should release it first.

I don't. I don't think you know my history. But this thing is a thing that got me out of the cops because I recorded a conversation on the phone.

You said that.

But anyway, that's say technology and me never never go down.

Well, it's going to be tough to be a crook in this day and age.

I think so. I genuinely think so. And I think it's a hard world to go down. If you want it, you can go in for the excitement and all that. But you've accepted. You accepted, Okay, I did ten years. A lot of people that would break them.

Yeah, yeah, that weekends. Look, the thing, let me tell you is something about Australia. It's the land of opportunity. You can do very well here, a little bit driven, a little bit creative, and work hard. So many people are successful just from that. Just I don't need to break the law. You don't need to worry about getting rated. There are opportunities everywhere, just find them.

Jay, one thing and you've seen done a lot. I get the sense that I called your hard ass at the start. Is there anything that you fear.

Anything or anyone, because there's a lot of hectic people out there.

Well, you give us both like it.

Well, there's no one in particular, but like I, you know, I don't think I've got any enemies, so she don't have any fear. But there's definitely a lot of formidable characters out there. There's no shortage of very willing, hectic people that will fucking kill you.

Okay, so you give that, give that respect absolutely.

Yeah, you can't go around poking the bear. Bro.

What about your mom, I reckon.

She unfortunately said that she's passed me. I definitely feed her.

Yeah, okay, yeah, I reckon. She would have to be to keep you a lot in line.

I tell when we're in court, the policeman, like I got arrested, that two guns out on me and they've got me on the ground, and I'll just I would describe it in court. My mom jumped up and started abusing me, said, all the trouble you've been in, all the fights you've had, and you let this mamp put you on the ground in front of him.

Oh, you're weak, prick.

Very much.

Yeah that says Yeah, that says a lot about your mom. Well, I think we'll finish up on that. But look, I really enjoyed the chat, and i'd like how you've been upfront, and I predicted it before before you came on, and when we had the chat, I didn't think there'd be any bullshit or dressing it up. You are who you are. I respect people that live by a moral cod even if I don't agree with the cod. One thing I don't like, Jay, and I think you would tested this too,

Yeah.

Absolutely, So that's sort of the way I look at things. And you are who you are and you stand by it, no regrets. That's what it is. All right, Well, stay alive and enjoy life.

To our best cheers. Thank you.

You want to know what it's like sitting down speaking to a real hard ass, Well, I think you found that out. There's something I like about a person that lives by a moral code. It might be a moral code that I don't necessarily agree with, but I respect someone that's true to himself. And what I find with