The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective see a side of life the average persons never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys, said, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes in the contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world. Welcome to another episode of I Catch Killers. I first heard about today's guests, like a lot of other people, Jude to what seemed to be an outrageous career, crashing funerals on behalf of deceased persons. He literally delivered
voices from the g at these funerals. He became known not just here in Australia but internationally as the coffin confessor. Yeah, I'm talking about none other than Bill Edgar, the original Coffin confessor. We talk a lot about death on I Catch Killers podcast, so Bill seemed like an obvious guest who could give us a different perspective on life and death.
I got to say I had preconceived ideas on who Bill must be, and if I'm honest, I thought he might be someone that didn't fully appreciate the emotions of someone passing from this world. Well, I've got to say I got it totally wrong. My perception of who I thought Bill was could not be further from the truth. Having prepared for this podcast and talking to Bill reading his books, I was inspired and learned things not only about death, but also important lessons about how to live
your life. Bill's own life story is also very powerful, and today we're very fortunate to sit down and be entertained by Bill Edgar. Bill Edgar, welcome to I Catchkillers.
Thank you so much for having me.
Well, it seemed like a natural fit given your profession and the title of the podcast here, I Catch Killers.
So I thought that it's time we met and had a chat.
You heard in the introduction that I had a perception of who you might be doing the type of work that you're doing with turning up at funerals delivering eulogies requested by the deceased. But I've got to say, Bill, I was wrong. I have read your book and I know we spoke about it in the last couple of days, and very deep, very reflective on what life and death is all about, and the consideration you have for what's actually taking place at the funeral came out in the pages in the book.
Yeah, I think your perception's pretty spot on, though. I mean, everybody that first hears of me, or even prior to meeting me, even through in my background and childhood, they think that I've got tattoos, piercings, you know, I'm a bikey type person and all that, and I'm really not. I mean, I've always tended to be a straight shooter and the individual. I don't follow anyone. I'm just me.
But when people get to know me like you have and through the books, Yeah, it changes in mind and perspective on who I am, what I do, and how I do it, and it's all it comes, you know, it just comes from me within. It's nothing else. It's just me. I'm true to myself and my integrity is everything.
It certainly comes across there. And when we're talking integrity, it's, yeah, at a very important time when someone this is they're passing from this earth to wherever they go and making sure that you retain your integrity of.
What you do.
What I like about the fact, and we're going to talk about your life because your life is worthy of episodes on my catch Killers in itself, not just your new career. But you're a tough guy, but you're not afraid to talk about your emotions, which is quite refreshing.
Yeah. I've never hid behind anything. I've never been a victim either. I've always been a survivor. It's something that I've always done. I don't know why I never sort of became like all the other victims. Is where you know, you turn to alcoholic drugs in the streets and depression and everything else. I think I just needed to better myself. I always had this thing where I needed to be a better man. It was going to happen one day,
and it only happened through hard work and determination. And obviously you've got to have courage and strength and everything else. But I saw the falseness in people, very very young age. I could see the wall that people have and once you got through that wall, that look, that demeanor, that steroid type person, you know, it was easy for me, very easy.
Yeah, we're talking the other day when we're having a chat about people that present those tough guys and they're juiced up, bulging muscles, covering in tattoos. Quite often, quite often that that's the case. They're hiding their own insecurities by presenting that way.
Absolutely. Look, I've worked on doors of nightclubs you all around Australia, and I've met some of the biggest men, and I've got to be honest with you. There's a story I can touch on where I stood in front of a man that was seven foot one. It was just massive. And he's in movies now and his name's Nathan Jones. And I was looking at his bellibun, his enormous figure. Sure puts the fear into a lot of people.
But I saw that man, his emotions. I saw how scared he was inside, you know, and I could see through everything that was on the outside. I never had a problem with Nathan, not at all. I know that he got in a bit of trouble in Bogger Road where I was. But I never had a drama with him. I was never feared of him. I was more feared of the little skinny bloke that was sitting in the corner that just murdered Shanni King. That really feed me.
Well, the fact that you've got the perception to understand the risk associated with that. That shows and we'll talk about it on the podcast. The life that you had and one of the points being a seventeen year old and Bogga Prison which is an adult prison with a pretty tough reputation. So yeah, you survived, but you've got to survive by having those instincts to know where the threat lies. So that certainly comes across. But look, reading the book it made me and it took me the
places I didn't think I would go. Reading your book it made me reflect on my own mortality and death and everything that life has to offer, the good, bad and the stuff in between. So we'll break down the book. But first of all, what you're known for widely known, and when I say not just here in Australia, internationally, you've tapped into something that people find fascinating with the work that you do as a coffin confessor, Tell me
how you got into that line of work. Tell us a story about your first first time you're employed to do that or first contracted to do that. Yeah.
So I was investigating claims through a gentleman. I am a private investigator, have been since two thousand and nine, and I was but I'm in the I'm more in the finance world of investigations. So I was looking at the theft of moneys from this gentleman through his accountant. And I'd been working for him for about six weeks and I got to know him really well. What I didn't know. I knew he was sick, but I didn't
know he was that close to death. And the more I got to know him, the more we spoke about death, the afterlife and all those things. And I said to him, I said, you know what, you should do your own eulogy. And he says, oh, look, I've just come back from the funeral and the family watched this man's eulogy first and they found it disrespectful, so they didn't play it. And that's going to happen with mine, I think, So, you know, I've got to find something else to do.
And it was a joke. Seriously, I just said, I said, you know what, Graham, I said, I could always crash your funeral for you, and we left it at that. A couple of weeks later, I get this text and it says, Bill, You're going to crash my funeral for me. I'm going to pay your ten grand to do it. And I'm like what. So I go and see him again and we speak about what he wants and how he wants it done, and again, as an investigator, I'm thinking, oh, these claims are a bit outrageous. Maybe if I can
investigate the claims. And I asked him if I could set up a couple of cameras in his bedroom. And the bedroom looked right down the hall to the kitchen, and his wife was beautiful, his daughter's beautiful, everyone's really nice. And he said that his best mate is trying to infiltrate his family and trying to have sex with his wife. I thought, what So anyway, I set the cameras up less than twenty four hours, I had everything I needed. This guy was an absolute scum. He was coming around
and he was trying to get onto his wife. He's spilling a cup of tea on his own shirt to take his shirt off, you know, all the bullshit. It was just it was just horrid to look at. I thought, yeah, okay, not a problem, Grahame, I'm doing it. I'm going to do it for you, no drama, and so he took
me up on the offer. Graham eventually passed away. I attended the funeral as one of the mourners, and I sit amongst family and friends, and a specific time, Graham and I had organized that when these best mates performing the eulogy, I'm to stand up and say, excuse me, one name, shouldill I just sit down, shut up, or fuck off? The man in the coffin's got something to say, and this is what it is. And I opened the envelope, pull out the letter, and I read exactly what Grahame's
words were. And Graham said to me, he said, look, he says, if there are family members there named Tom Dickon Harry, can you please tell him to stand up and fuck off. I haven't seen him in thirty years, so why are they here paying their respects now when they could have seen me for the last thirty years. They're vultures. I said, okay, no problem at all. Graham, and that's what I did.
Okay, a couple of points just unpacking that. How did you feel going there? Like at funerals, by the very nature of it, they are a somber place and everyone's sort of trying to be on their best behavior, and you're going to walk in there and you.
Basically on a flip, it UPSI upside down. How did you feel.
On the drive in? I felt very nervous and a bit uncomfortable. But the closer I got, the more I kept thinking about Graham's mate, and it was all focused on him, the hatred for him and what he'd done to his family, And I got to say, like, you know, I kept thinking about Graham laying in on his deathbed and he couldn't yell, kick or scream. He couldn't defend his family or anything, you know, So that really, I suppose empowered me to do what I did. But I
didn't think of the congregation, the mourners. I didn't even see them, to be honest with you. It happened so quickly, and I had no care or concern for them. It was all about Graham in the coffin, and so there was no real real thought process about what I was doing and what harm I may have done for those left behind because it wasn't about them, It wasn't their funeral.
You make that point with a lot of the different jobs that you were asked to do in that role, and you seem to hang on tightly to the fact that this is the wishes of the person whose funeral it is. So you know, if anyone should have a say in their funeral, it's a person that's in the coffin. So is that gave you strength to do the type of things that you're doing.
Oh? Absolutely, it's their funeral. And just because they're dead doesn't mean they can't have a voice. And then my voice to them. So and I, like I say to everybody, I tried to get the crowd on my side as quickly as possible. I stand up, but I do say, hey, listen, guys, this is your loved one laying in the casket or coffin. They've got something left unsaid. Let's hear what it is. You know, have for respect for them. You're not here for you. It's their funeral. Yeah.
Good, good point. So what was the reaction you got?
Like, I'm just I'm sitting there and I'm picturing how it would be if I was at a funeral and that popped up.
What was a reaction.
First of all, the so called best mate that was thought he was delivering the eulogy.
I recall like he was leaving. He walked out, but there was a lady that was sitting two pews over and I heard her say, yeah, fuck off. I thought, so he's not the only one that he's done this too, so he deserved not to be there. So I found that quite inspiring, you know. I thought, yeah, yeah, good
fuck off gay. Yeah. And the three relatives that were there and they stood up, they thought they were going to get applauded or something, you know, but they got told the funk off and they're like, Jesus, what a prick. And I'm like, not the prick.
You set them up as in, call out the names and they're yeah, that's me, that's me.
Piss off.
Yeah.
I was asked to call their names out and ask him to stand up, and they did. They were all happy to stand up, and they were there for them. They weren't there for Graham at all.
Yeah, what did what do you think it meant for Graham? Knowing that he had that set up before he passed away, like the thoughts, these are the thoughts. Okay, I know this is going to happen. What do you think it brought to Graham? Did you get a sense of sense of that joy?
I sat with Graham prior to his death, and after we'd gone through everything, after he wrote his ladder, because I helped them write the Leader obviously, but I get them to sign it, and I get a video of Graham and myself every client I've done, I have a video of a contractual agreement and Graham's face at the end of it when he was lying in the bed, and I said, Okay, Graham, or this will be the
last time I ever see you again. You know, I hope everything's been on the other side, and you know, if there is anything on the other side, let me know. You know.
Yeah.
Graham's face was like all lit up, and he was like, ah, Bill, if I could be a fly on the wall, I really hope I'm there. You know. It was just good. It was a good feeling.
Well, you've got to think that that brought him the way you've just described that, it brought him some joy in a very otherwise sad time, so then settle the ledger.
Well, it was a settle of the ledger. And I got to say when I was leaving that funeral, because after I do what I do, I just put the ladder back in the envelope and I place it on the coffin and I walk out. So I don't know if the funeral continues or not. I just walk out. But on my way out, this young girl followed me and she said, excuse me, excuse me, Bill, Bill, And I'm like, oh, yeah, how and she goes, that would be very proud, thank you.
Oh the daughter.
All Right, Well, an interesting start to a career that's blossomed, and we'll dig into that was just the start of something that's become I would suspect bigger than you ever imagined that it would become amazing global.
I mean, it's just phenomenal.
Okay, let's talk about your life, your early life. Describe your childhood.
Oh, childhood was not Yeah, I didn't have one. It was a stolen It was the night before my eighth birthday. My grandfather sexually, physically and mentally abused me in a horrid way. And then the morning of my eighth birthday. I woke up and there was a bike in the bedroom, a nice spot green, shiny bike. I came out into the lound room and I wasn't happy, and my mum berated me and belted me severely for not thanking my grandfather and sitting on his lap and giving him a
big kiss and a cuddle for the bike. And I ran away and I was only eight, you know. From where we were, I ran to a motel which is really well known on the Gold Coast called the Pink Poodle. That hotel I knew backwards because I used to play in that area as a street kid and a kid that used to play in the areas, you know, I knew the Pink Poodle and the surrounding suburb quite well. And I built a little cubby house which was an
escape room for me. Knowing now that it was an escape room's different, but it's just like a little cubby house for me. And so that was the start of it. And the abuse went for years, and it was so terrifying and shocking. It's a horrific thing. I mean, I was horrified. I was so fucking angry.
Bill.
That just adds another layer to the trauma of what people like you, survivors of it that have to live with.
Yeah. I mean like when I was in Bogger Road, I met a couple of psychiatrists that said, you know you've been abused, so you know it's possible that you'll be abused and you'll becoming an abuser. And that was the mentality back in the eighties, that's all they thought. And I wanted to just jump across the desk and ring their throat and say, you're kidding me. Half the people in jail killing or bashing child abuses aren't bashing him because they're child abuses. Because half the people in
prison were abused. That's why they bash him.
Yeah, that's an interesting point. And I learned that and Russell Manter, who you know who sadly passed away, made that point when I was talking to him and we became good friends. And what you just said, I know, evely as a cop thought, Okay, the rock spiders in prison, the prisoners will bash them if they can because they don't like the nature of the crime. And it was pointed out, you know why the prisoners hate them is because so many of us are in here because we
were abused as kids. That's why we hate them with a passion. There was an age, a couple of years down the track, when you thought enough is enough, and you sought help, and you went and spoke to a teacher.
You know, I was twelve years of age, living in government and I was very sporty, athletic type of kid. Didn't matter what it was. I wasn't good at. I was excellent at. I was gifted in sport. And I won a scholarship, five year, fully funded scholarship to the Southport School. My first week at the school, I was harassed by certain teachers for being a They called me basically, I had no money. I come from government housing. I wasn't worthy of being taught. I wasn't being paid. I
didn't pay to go to the school. I was a literate. I had dyslexia, and you know, one teacher said, look, I don't teach idiots. Go sit in the corner and play with your thumbs. And that was my introduction to the Southport School.
What a great teacher.
Yeah, it was yeah, class act that one. The other teacher consoled me because that teacher was so harmful to me, but consoled me in a way of abusing me. It was a nightmare. It was happening at school, and then I'd go home and it had happened at home. Then I'd wake up in the morning and I'd go to school and it happened at school. Then I'd come home at night and it happened at home. And it was
just relentless. And it got to a point where I can turn around now and say I had a breakdown in a way that was so severe that I just ran away from school and home and I went to Surface Paradise and I sat in that little cubby house that I'd built years earlier, and I stayed there for days, weeks, and then I just became a street kid.
Bill.
I'm sitting here and just listening to you tell the story. It's difficult to even comprehend how you process what you've just described on every front as a kid, where you should be protected if you're not at home, or at least the school's going to protect you, or there needs to be and balance you. You literally had no one helping you. The school that you put trust in teachers and they're doing doing the same thing.
What did that do to you?
They try to describe to me and the listeners what that did to a kid at that age, Like being a teenager is hard enough with everything going your way, but having all those things, what was your view on the world.
There was a song that I regularly hear on the radio and in cars passing by, and it was Bob Geldoff. I don't like Mondays, and it resonated with me. And even today when I hear that song, yeah, it's a trigger for me. And you know, you shoot the whole school down, or the whole day down, and you know, and I always had that yea, the silicon chip inside her head has switched to over load all mine. Mine went more than overlaid, you know. And it was an
absolute shocking thought. And I ended up breaking into a schoolboy's family home that I knew quite well. In the eighties, the early eighties, even the made of mine had a rifle rack in his car as long as they weren't loaded. You know, you could drive around with rifles in the early eighties. And I stole a rifle and okay, now I look back and it was only a twenty two, but for me, it was a rifle. It was something that was going to kill the perpetrators and people that
hurt me. And that was my whole thought in my process was to steal that rifle, steal enough ammunition, and head back to the school. And yeah, I did.
Did you physically go there with the intent to use the weapon?
Fully intended to do what I was going to do? I wasn't. It's funny when when people are in that type of zone, there's no you don't see anything else. Like I remember breaking into the house and I couldn't tell you how I got in Today, I got no idea how I got in there. But I can tell you where the gun rack was. I can tell you the ammunition I took. I can tell you that it was a goldplay to rifle. I can tell you I got from the house to the school by a stolen
boat because it was just across the river. But then everything else is a blur around me. I can remember getting to the clock tower and climbing the clock tower because I knew, I knew everything about TSS. There's not an inch of TSS that I didn't know about. And I'd get into the clock tower and I was up on the clock tower and it's like a miniature big Ben and I was in there, and the noise of the clock tower I never forget, you know, every every
quarter the chimes go. But it wasn't that that got me. It was the flagpole that the little ring that just belted the little pole every time the wind. And I'd be sitting there and then I think, I know I'm going to jail. I'm going to die that day. I knew it without a doubt. I knew what was going to happen. And I loaded this rifle and it was a it was the old Western rifle. And I loaded it, and I was sitting there and I I put it under my chin and I just sat there and I cried,
and I cried and I cried. Yeah, and then I stood up and I looked around, and also I could see with kids, and I could see kids playing tennis because the tennis court was right opposite the clockdown, and I could see them playing tennis. And I could see kids, and I couldn't tell you what kids they were. Although I knew everybody at the school and they knew me, I couldn't picture each or any of them. It was a blurb. But I couldn't see any teachers. I couldn't
see any adults. And that's what I was there for, the teachers and the adults. And then i'd sit back down and I'd wait a little while, and I thought, I can't do this. I just can't do it. And I waited for the bell to go and everybody run into into the classes or whatever else. And I started to head down the clockdown. I could hear a familiar voice, and he was talking to these people, you know, showing him around the school. Must have been new parents, you know,
of the kids that were attending the school. And I waited for his voice to slowly go in the distance, and I quickly looked around and I went through one of the dormitory houses and I escaped through the kitchen, the dorm kitchen where all the boys would go and eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner, all the boarders. And I made my way back down to the river, and I grabbed the rifle by the nozzle and I just flung it straight into the broad worder. I just looked and
I went. I just walked away, and I ran into a shopping center then was called Sundale Shopping Center. It was really well known on the Gold Case and I went in there, and I walked into the movie theater and I hid under the row of seats and I just lay there and cried, and.
Yeah.
I stayed there for a couple of nights in this movie theater.
You know.
And I was dry and I was warm, and I consoled myself. And then the next day, a couple of days after that, I stole a school uniform and I went to a state school called Southport State High School. And I walked into this state school and I saw these group of kids and I said, Oh, what grade you guys in. They said, oh, we're in grade eleven. I said, oh, yeah, me too. Where's first class? And they said, just up there and I will take you.
And I so beautiful. So I went upstairs and introduced myself to the teacher, and teacher says, I didn't know I had a new student. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, cool, take a seat over there. And I walked in. I sat down, and the girl behind me tap me on the shoulder with a pencil and said, stop leaning on your chair, and I said, oh, sorry, And then she looked at her friend and she said to her friend, she says, I'm going to marry that boy one day and it's been forty years today.
That's Lara, was it?
Yeah? Wow?
Wow, Because I was going to bring up the relationship you have with Lara, because it seems like it's the foundation of your whole life moving throughout your life after that.
Start getting back to what you just talked about. It's very rare.
I sit here and shut up and just listen to someone talk like you did. But I can't even process what you're going through at that stage, the abuse that you suffered, getting to the point where Okay, I'm going to take revenge, actually taking actions to do that, put yourself in a position where you could do that, and then whatever came over you deciding that's not what I'm
going to do and walking away from it. But it's just we hear a lot of stuff on eye catch killers, but it's just mind blowing what you went through at such an early age. You mentioned the other day, I don't like Mondays and how triggering it is, and if people that don't know the song, Bob Geldof a song and it's about a girl that just don't like Mondays and ended up going to a school and doing what you were thinking of doing exactly.
It was so profound, you know, Like many years later, I meant, the son of one of my abuses who reached out to me, and he said to me, he said, my father was TSS teacher for forty four years and he's confessed to abusing hundreds of boys, hundreds, and he's on his deathbed. And I said, oh, you're kidding me. He says, he also abused me at home. He said, But and I told him this story about the rifle
of cocktail and that. And he said, I don't know if you know, but three years prior to what you just said, a young boy stood in front of the colcktown and blew his head off. I said, no, I didn't know that. He said, that's because of the abuse he suffered. I was like, I wasn't the only one.
No, Sadly, sadly it's not always. But there's not just one. There's more. Were those the abuses your grandfather, the teachers? Were they ever called into account?
On the seventh September last year went to mediation with the church and the South Pot School. And it took thirty five years to get there. Eleven lawyers, probably four different lawyer agencies, and when they finally got to the table, the church said, yeah, this happened. I was like, you stood there for thirty years calling me a liar. Now you're willing to accept what happened to me, and now I'm being forced to accept a payout. And they said, well, yeah,
that's why we're here. I'm like, I'm here for justice. What about those that abuse me? What about them? If you accept the payout, they can continue their lives, they can keep teaching, they can do what they want. But why don't you stand with me? Why isn't the school standing with me? Why isn't this church standing with me? And enough is enough? How dare this continue? How dare we employ these people in good faith that have turned out to be absolute animals? Why didn't the church stand with me?
You know? Just?
And the reason being is that the school, the church, they're so scared of being outed in a way. And it's got to the point where I've spoken to one hundred and thirty three old boys. Ninety eight percent were abused sexually, physically, and mentally. A lot of them have now been paid out and accepted a pay out because justice is too hard to get. The system doesn't allow us to get justice.
Well, when you've got the organization, the very organization where these things are occurring, working against getting justice and covering it up. But Bill, we could talk about this and what's wrong with the world in regards to child sex abuse all day, and it's just I think there just needs to be some ownership taken in people that are aware of this and know the organization, the shame of this that any excuse, it's just not good enough. It is not good enough that the damage that they cause
to people. And when I was talking to the other day, I said that it's great the way you turned your life around, and then I checked myself. You haven't turned your life around. Your life, you didn't have an option where your life was going. You've got through your life, but your childhood was stolen from you, absolutely stolen from you by these for their How do you justify it?
It's for their own sexual gratification. It's despicable and time and time again, and I just I get angry talking to people like yourself what you've been through and that the whole world's not outraged by what goes on and the way they manipulate.
Yeah, and that's the thing, like I had an associated I won't call him a friend because I actually met him as a copper. He was a cop. Peter Jackson, right, He was the footballer Peter Jackson, unbelievable football player. He played for the Broncos South. He played for Australia. A remarkable man. Now I'm about I don't know, eighteen. At this time nineteen, I'm in and out of jail, and I'm at this guy's place. He's a drug dealer in
Surface Paradise. And his name is Matthew Columbian Blake, very hard, rough man. But we got on really well because he had a pet snake and I wasn't scared of snakes, and he used to take it to the Chevron bar and he had this snake on the bar and I was just in there one day and anyway, I picked the snake up and he goes, no, I never touches my snake. It'll bite you, I'll kill you. I'm like, off, it's a carpet snake. You won't do shit. We just clicked. We got on. I was never into drugs or alcohol,
but I was into food. I was so hungry, always hungry. And I told this Matthew and he had a girlfriend onnion surface. They used to love cooking, and you'll come down and have some of our food and oh fuck, the food is gorgeous. Anyway, the door gets kicked in while I'm in there eating and in comes this two coppers, both of them football players, Peter Jackson and Matthew. Turns to Peter and he goes, ah, uniform today, Huh how
much you want? And then all of a sudden he goes back and they do the deal and Peter looks at me and he goes, I know you. I said yeah. I said I know you too, and he goes, do I rest you? I said no, You've never arrested me. He said where do I know you from? I said tss And he said, I fun, get out, fuck off. You don't want to be around here, clean yourself up.
And I'm like, fuck off, You've just come in for a bag of drugs and you're telling me what so anyway, and it was a couple of years later, you know, Peter Jackson came out and confessed to his being sexually abused at the Southbot School and then he took his own life in ninety seven. And that's when I took up the fight.
It says a lot, doesn't it.
Someone like Peter Jackson successful in every aspect that people would look at that. Ak's football, he's got the career, he's everything, and he was a personality, he was well liked and that, but clearly just held onto that pain from the abuse when he was a child. That's the impact that this type of thing has what got you to prison as a seventeen year olf an adult prisoner As a seveneen year off.
I was in a place called Fisherman's Wharf. It had just been just hanging out and ada and just having a great time. And it was that era that you could go and you could actually sign a piece of paper saying that you wouldn't drink, but you could go into the lickle licensing area. Yeah, so I'd do that and then I'd have a couple of drinks. I hated drinking. I was never a drinker. And I went across the beach to throw up and fuck me it was main beach.
I didn't know. I was very young, right, I didn't know that was a notorious place for gays to hang out. It's called the spit. So I didn't know, you know, I had no idea. So I'm over there and I'm throwing up. It's late in the afternoon, and these two other guys come over that I knew, and they're going, you're right, Oh yeah, I'm right there. I said, what's going on? I said, ah, man, and then as I looked up, there's a naked man standing there, fully naked,
just standing there, and I'm like, fuck man. Anyway, one of the boys goes up to you and says you've got a cigarette, and he goes, yeah, but you're not having one. So I just grabbed his packet of cigarettes and I went to walk off. I didn't touch the guy, no one harmed him. We just abused him, and really he ran away. He was scared shitless, but he ran
to the police. So we're walking. I'm walking with these other two guys and we're walking across Sundale Bridge, fucking all these play these cars just come to a screech and they arrest us. And there's a detective who I'll never forget. He's just that fucking ass on the gold case. He really was. I met him later on in life and told him so. But all these police cars and they put us on the ground. The handcuffers put us in the paddy wagon, take us to the Southwort Watchhouse
and they separate those two with me. I'm in my own song. They're in another cell, and then I see this guy come in and he's really well dressed and he's talking to the bloke beside myself and he goes. He says, yeah, so I can help you out, and I'll be able to help you out in the morning, and you'll go home tomorrow about lunchtime and I'll ti
click straight away. He's a lawyer, right, and he's only a new lawyer, right, but he's very well mannered, well dressed, and he looks at me and he goes, are you all right? And I said, I'm not. I said, I don't know what I've been charged with. I'm here, but I don't understand the charges. And he goes, my name's Bill Potts. I'll help you, and I said, I haven't got any money. He said, don't worry about that. So
he went to the front counter. I spoke with these police and the police said the charge is robbery with violence, and he goes, what was the robbery and he said a cigarette. He said, but that wasn't the problem. The problem with this young bloke is that he was with these two blokes and they wanted farm, robbery, bank jobs.
Right, Okay, so you've done a basically what was a stealing has turned into a robbery and company and everything else.
And it ended up being really bad. They said, I was looking at eight to twelve years because I was with these two people, and I was advised not to attend court after I got bail. I got bail on my own undertaking, but I was advised not to attend court with these two and to suffer the not attending court consequences rather than standing in a dock with these two.
Right, because you'll get one then with them.
And I did. And then when I didn't attend court, and when I finally went back to court that Jude said, okay, look, it's a misdemeanor. It's not a big crime. Where do you live? You know this? And I told him I had nothing. He says, oh, this is a six months by array. They'll look after you. You'll get you'll get fed, you'll get closed, and you'll get educated.
Fucked Bill, Like, sorry, I should choose a better word, but yeah, you've been dealt some shitty cards, haven't you? Like, now you're now getting punished for being sexually abused and your life turned upside down because your life's in disarray. And then you go before the courts, maybe they'll understand, Maybe they might even ask why I'm here? Why have I got no fixed place of a bode? But now we'll send you, send you to an adult prison as
a seventeen year old. That's yeah, that goes well, doesn't it?
Well? It was just horrendous, absolutely horrendous.
Tell us about that, like, I can't even comprehend. And I've said it on here jokingly. Walking into a new school can be intimidating as a kid, But walking into an adult prison as a seventeen year old, what was going through your mind?
I was in the paddy wagon on the way up and this guy beside me. He's he was a notorious arm robber, hard as hard man, very hard, and he looks over at me and he says, give me your shoes. I said, no, away, he says, give me your shoes. He says, you will not last three minutes inside without your shoes. I said what he says, Look, he says, you take my shoes. He says. I know they're shitty shoes,
he said, but you're wearing Nikes. And I'd stolen these nikes, so I had no real, fuck it yeah thing for them. But I thought, I'm not going to give Michelle. I'm a tough guy. I'm not giving. And then he told me what was going to happen to me as soon as we got out of the wagon for my shoes. And I'm like, they're going to do that for my shoes. What are they going to do? You know? So I got to know this guy really well, just on a drive up to the Brisbane watching Brisbane Boggerade, and I did.
I gave him my shoes and he got out of the wagon and then I got out of the wagon, and then another guy, Aboriginal Blake, got out of the wagon and we had to stand on a yellow line and back then you had to salute. It's a real weird situation, but you had to salute all.
The offices stead of a throwback, isn't it.
And this average I said, no, I'm not saluting you, you fucker. No way. He got the shit beat out of him, and I was going to help, and the black took my shoes. He said, stand there and don't move, Just stand there. I shipped myself. Old mate, he was bad.
I just what you've described there and that you're trusting this blake. Is he giving you genuine good advice or is he he just setting you up for whatever?
But it's a world that you don't know, like.
It's not like you grew up in that environment where you're in and out of boys homes and knew the lay of the land. You've gone straight in there, pretty pretty raw. Even though you're a street kid. You're tough, you can look after yourself. But it's on another level there isn't it when you're in there too. You your pet hate was the predators, the sex offenders, and the ones that wanted to take advantage of you in prison.
Tell us a few stories about that. One and one in particular, and the Taurus guy Ray Garland was.
They put a seventeen year old into an area that was called protection. I didn't know that. I had no idea what protection was because you're young. You know you're going into this yard. This guy came up to me, Teddy, he was walking the boundary line and he goes, hey, you come here. I said, what's wrong? And he says, see that guy out there, He says, I want you to bash him. You don't bash him, you'll be raped.
What the fuck? He's a copper, he's what he's a copper bashing and you're the only one that can get in there and do it, So go and do it. I'll be watching. I'm like, So I walk up to this guy and I just laid into it and I couldn't stop. And then I was given a couple more months. I was thrown in solitary. I came out of solitary. They said, no, we're not putting him back in there. Fuck that put him in with all the other boys, which they did. And then I'm sitting there and this
Aboriginal kid come in. Oh, he's walking the fence line, this other Aboriginal kid, and he had a look that is the most feared look you could ever see in a man. And he looked at me and then he walked past, and then I saw him. The following day, he dragged one of the boy's younger boys, say eighteen nineteen year old into the toilets and raped him bashed him.
Two hours later, same thing to another bloke, and then another bloke, and it was just it kept going and I could see this and everybody could see it, and then you could witness it. And then I could see the guards laughing with him, giving him a high five. That guy of these fucking real bad He thinks he's a tough blake, going and getting ray. They let him in there, and he did it prolifically all over the
fucking jail. All of a sudden, this one day, he's walking past my yard and he goes, hey, you come here. I said, fuck you, you come here. So he started climbing the fucking cage and I thought, he's coming in and I'm going to be prepared, fucking And there was a prisoner in there at the time. He was on remand this prisoner he was his gangster type blacker. He knew gangsters more than him being a gangster. And he said to me. He says, oh, you're fucked, and I said, no,
I'm not, man He's fucked. Anyway, Glan gets back down because the screw is telling him to get down. He gets down and he looks at me and he says, you're mine. I said no, no, no, I'm not mane anyway, he starts fucking going off and I'm going off at him, and then I look at him and we have this stair down and he starts to walk away, and then something in my mind just said, hey, Garland, come here,
and he did. And I remember when I was going into Boggarad and the guy who took my shoes, he said, if you're if you do what you're told, you're easy. And I said, the Garland come here. I had him. I knew I had him. I knew that wall that looked that he had it was all fucking fake. I said, we come to to toe. You're a dead man. I said, I'm coming after you. And then he looked at me and he goes, oh, mate, you got the devil in you. I don't like you. I don't want you. Fuck off.
I said, you're lucky that this gate's here right now, I mean, and he just walked off and I never spoke to him again.
Hopefully stays there.
But yeah, you've just given a real honest account of what it's like going in the prison and just whind in the backyard where it's put on you the decisions you got to make. Do I swap the shoes of my being set up here and then bash that blake. Yeah, I I defy anyone to how would you react in that situation? If you ignore it that it's coming for you,
you know you're going to be a victim. And I think, if anything, the abuse that you suffered as a child and the anger that you're held on to that probably carried you through there. That the way you just describe that conversation with Garland, you don't want to fuck with someone that's prepared to die on the spot, And that seems to be the way that you were putting yourself across in prison, and it might.
Have look the first meal in prison is the most daunting, horrific, terrifying experience because you're going into a dining hall with all these big fucking men and they're all sitting at tables, round tables, and I'm sitting there with a tray and I've got my food on the tray, and the knives and forks are rattling so much because I'm shaking so much, and I'm so scared, And I see an opening and I put my tray on the table and I sit down and they throw the tray away and they tell
me to fuck off, and I'm sitting there going I'm not going. I'm staying. I don't give a fuck what because I'm not leaving this seat. And they bashed me so bad that then they turn around and they say, yeah, he's not a bad blake, all right, Yeah he's all right. I'm like, fuck. So then I got sort of taken under a few wingsuit is good. And then I remember the next morning, I got a bowl of porridge and I had it in my hands because there was.
No trace that say he didn't mind it radilely.
No, My incident caused the whole prison to get rid of trays for a day, right, so I was outed because the fucking trays. Anyway, I'm holding this hot porridge and this blake behind me, he's got tear drop tattoos down his face. He's fucking just ripped and fucking hard ass, and he just walks up and slaps the porridge out of my hand, and I just look at him, and I know I'm meant for fucking hiding again, and hes that wasn't meant for you. And I said what he said,
that food was not meant for you. It's got all the glass shavings in it. It's meant for the blake behind you. Ah okay, thanks, he says, don't hurt me, just fucking know when to speak. That's what he taught me, he said, No, when to speak.
Hard hardcore. You've described that scene walking into the mill hall, and it's played out. You see it played out in movies time and time again, because it's just can you think of somewhere more uncomfortable to be? And you and the way you described that, I like your honesty. You're trying to Yeah, I got this covered. But the trays rattling on the cutlery, on the metal tray.
But yeah, you're right.
Like if you and I hear this from people who have been inside and go inside when they don't understand it. But if you had to take that stand, you had to take that bashing, then otherwise your life.
You would have been a victim your whole whole time you served in.
There without a doubt. I mean I met some people that came in that was as hard as nails and they just went to water. There was a Broncos football player that can at the same time. Sam was his name, Sam? I can't remember. He came in in nineteen eighty seven, he got done for drugs, him and his wife, and his wife went to the woman's john. He came in and he was a legend football player, you know, and he'd run around the oval and no one had ever seen with anybody else, but he just run around the oval.
And I got to talk to him, and I realized straight out why he was doing what he was doing. It was fear, nothing more. It was just fear. Going around the oval not talking to anyone. Made him look like a real hard bastard. He was scared. He was like all the rest of us in there. We all had to find our own little niche to get over things, you know, and that's mine be I became a runner for other prisoners. The screws allowed me to become a runner deliver the messages, but I was delivered on drugs.
That's It's the world. I'm not the I think. And you know, we're talking the eighties here are we.
Seventeen eighteenth birthday, nineteenth twenty first birthday I got out.
Prisons. It will never be perfect.
They are starting to wake up to the fact that, you know, if you treat people like animals in there, or throw someone in that environment, it's not going to be conducive to coming out and you know, getting getting back into society and like speaking to young blokes in there or even blakes that have been in there for a while that you've got to bridge up anytime someone
has a go at you. And then you get out of prison, you're walking along the street, someone bumps you and you're still in your prison headspace and you belt them and you're back in prison. You know, it's just a crazy thing. We've got so much to cover here. We're going to have a break now, but just your
life in itself is so fascinating. When we get back, we're going to get you, get you out of the prison and how your life starts going down a different, different path and all the stories that you've got that come from the coffin confessor. So we'll take a break here and be back for part two a little later on.
Looking forward to it is never Mind at Anti Nae