The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective see a side of life the average persons never exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world. Welcome back to part two of my chat with Elliott McLaren, a half caste, left handed, gay Scottish Maori who was also a drug addict, drug dealer, standover man, and now pursues his passion as a stand up comedian. Elt You're a complex character.
Tell me about it. I'm still trying to figure myself out.
I'm trying to keep this podcast on track, but we just go off on little deviations all the time. But you've got so many things to talk about. But you know here on my catch Killers, we love complex characters, so I'm enjoying myself. So welcome back to part two.
Thank you.
Now we manage through great trial and tribulation get you through to your sort of early twenties. Yeap, okay. Your life was sort of all over the place at this stage, holding onto sem anger stemming from the victim of child's sexual abuse, suppressing your sexuality because you didn't want to come out. There's a gay man in an environment that, yeah, the community demonstrated was not acceptable. What age did you come out? What age did you put your hand up and go, hey, this is me.
I was still twenty, I was just before I tuned twenty one. It was it was it was a week of Christmas, end of the year I was. I was still twenty at the time, and I just I got run over by car. I've just been run over by this car.
I forgot to include that in my nose.
I'd just been running and I like, I'm really excellent praying. I've been in the hospital heaps of times, but this one was funny because it was my last cigarette. I remember was sitting there. I was sitting there with my cousin at the drive. My cousin to your guys version of the Big W eleven o'clock at night in the Westfield car park. He's getting his little brother's presents for
Christmas twenty second of December. And I'm sitting there. I'm swinging my last cigarette and I'm waiting for my doll to come through at midnight so I can go and get some smokes. And I thought, this is eleven o'clock, I'll smoke my last CIGGI I can hold out until the end. And I'm sitting there and I dropped my cigarette just after a little I drotted out of dropped it out of the driver's side window and it rolled onto my car. And I'm in a car park with
three hundred cars. Car space is empty. It's the middle of the night, and so I'm like, okay, this is this is fine. I'll just get my CIGI and I regular under the car to get it, and I remember I just managed a pinchon in my fingers and I was so happy. I was like, yeah, I've got my cigarette. And I just saw headlights and my gut's just crumbled. I knew for some reason, I don't know why, but I knew that car was going to park on me.
And they just sung into the car bight next to me and just parked on top of my They dragged both my legs underneath the car and then parked on both my ankles. And the poor girl he played, he who was driving, and I think she was on her owls.
Actually I don't know what I'm laughing, but I am laughing.
It sounds so funny. And I'm under the car like sort of skewing under the car, and I remember yelling. I was like, fuck, you're on top of me in this and the poor girl penned and she did mate. But the problem was that she died a fright, and she dropped the clutch to sort of get off me
as quickly as she can. She didn't do a smooth gear change, and so when she dropped the clutch, it just skittered the front tires up that were parked on top of my legs, and it took the top of the ball joint out of my ankle, took the top of the bone off as a tie. I skittered, it ripped the bone out, ripped all the flesh off and then and she went over my legs and I got up. When I stood up and I leaned on the passenger window, her boyfriend was in the passenger and I looked at it.
I was like, fuck there and they're like, oh my god. And the boyfriend's like, you know, okay, mae to you, okay, he's two park your kids, Yeah, okay mate, And I was like, fucking, I think I was wearing gang cars covered in gang colors. I had a blue band down and blue shorts on a blue singleer. These poor kids are like they're dying because they're like, not only run someone over, I run a fucking game.
I'm just trying to picture it. So they come in shopping center car park, they're probably coming in there to do their shopping or whatever. And then a bump go over here and they look down and there you are with a smoking your hand.
Yeah, and I got I still holding my smoker, got out holding my smokers like that fucking and just had a drag and then looked at them and then I was like, I'm going to go home in the bed. I think it's going to get some more ice. And I was like, I'm going to go on the bed, and but I was like, I'm going to score my fucking legs killing me. I gotta get some drugs. And my cousin's flatmate was in the car at the time.
Cousins still in the fucking in the shop and my cousin's flat mats in the in the car and he goes, no, man, we've got to take you a He panicked. He's like, we got to take get hospital. This is fucking really bad that today.
And I'm like, no, no, no, it's all good.
Just give me some drugs and I'll be fine. And he jumps in there, puts me in the passenger, jumps in the drivers. That's It's like it was taking a drift. This guy was racing, racing in the hospital. You're going to kill us on the way to the hospital, You're idiot. And and we got to the hospital and they wheeled me in on a wheelchair. I don't know if it was because I had all these these gang colors on or what, but they did not want to serve me.
The hospital staff took for ear. But it gets to me I sat there for an hour league bleeding.
Maybe because you're off your faces off my.
Face, you know, I'm off my face, I'm high, out of my mind, and I and you know, just I looked really unsavory. I had no shoes on. It wasn't even wearing shoes. When I got to the big w I had no shoes on. And they wheeled me in and they pulled this rlb toothbrush out of the out of the packet, and the guy just scrubbed the scrub the bone clean.
That was it.
And that was the only thing they really did for me. They scrubbed all the bones clean with a toothbrush, hosed it all off, got all the tire rubber and the stones and bits of glass out of my ankle, and then he banded it up and he just said made it. If you get it infected, I'm gonna have to take your leave. Go for the knee. So don't you do feet? And he goes, nah, we just do above them below the knee. I said, that's that's a pretty that's a pretty small menu, mate.
It's a well. Life's going good for you. Yeah, everything, everything's going going well.
It was great. I was living at this mild house, I think mongrel mob house. There was all these uh, this fellow I worked with him. His brother was a sergeant of arms of the mongrelob Some people are familiar with the movie here, not everybody, but they're really big.
Very very powerful, very powerful.
Yeah, very heavy, gang like very heavy. They do a lot of a lot of crimes. I think the initiation back in the day was a raper and murder to get in. So a lot of heavy characters, especially the Ogs. The old boys are real heavy characters. And I was living at this house and I started talking to this guy. I met him actually while I was still bandage. It
was only about a week later. I went round to this guy's house to hook up with him, Maldi Fella from South Aukland, and absolutely loved them the best at the best time ever. It was such a it was such a great feeling. And it was not because we were at his house. It was out of the city. I didn't feel like I had any eyes on me or anything like that because prior to then I was hooking up with guys but on the secret.
So okay, so this was you hadn't come out with your with your gang mates or nobody knew. I'm still deep in the closet, but you were. You would find partners and find people to hook up with, and you do that, but do it on the quiet.
On the quiet, And there was times i'd go there. Sometimes i'd go to the sauna. The sauna was good too, because you could sell drugs at the sauna, so you could go there. One stop shop, yeah, one stop job. It was business and please, you're all in the same building. And I would go there and you could do that, and and I would hook up with guys. But I remember it was it was in the an area of the city where there was a lot of people who were the same colors that I did.
I was.
I was always terrified because he'd come out of the building at night, and you'd always poke your head out on the street and you'd look both ways to make sure there was nobody who you might know and nobody who might know somebody you know coming out of that building. So I was terrified. And when I was hanging out, this guy was a really nice, relaxed sort of set up. We hung out, I stayed the night. We keep messaging and I'd just been run over. Life was looking pretty bad.
I didn't really have a lot of options. I had no money. I think I was about to be homeless again, and we chatted for a few months, and then it wasn't long after that I ended up staying in his house like every single night, and then I was just like and then he was His mum was like, do you just want to live here? Said yeah, I'd love to, because she knew the situation I was in. Sheid, we'll take care and it's all good, you can live here. So I was stoked. I was really happy I started
living with him. It wasn't long after that it was my twenty first was coming up, and I remember I there was something trying to stoic about it, but like it was sort of old school but new school combined where I was like, yeah, I'm gay, which is I was really ashamed of and I was still deep in the closet about it. But at the same time, this was my partner, and I didn't want to have my twenty first without celebrating my partner, and you know, that
would just be such a I just found out. I just thought, of my head, that was just such a weak thing to do to keep it a secret, and I was and so I told. I told my cousin, I told a few people I knew, I told my parents trying to come out of the closet. To my mom, she didn't believe me. So that was the worst. That was the worst coming out overhead was trying to tell someone you're gay and they don't believe you in you're and you're like blue in the face, like no, I'm gay,
and my mom's like, no, you're not. I'm like no, I am, and she's like I don't believe you. And then she just and then after all she was like, this isn't even a funny joke. While you're trying to I was always a funny character, always trying to do funny shit.
And she's like, this isn't even funny.
I don't know why you're trying to trying to flog this horse, like it doesn't make any sense. I'm no, I'm being serious. My mom gay And she just looked at me and she goes, oh, knock me down at a feather dust. I always thought it to be your brother.
Just can't can't accept it. I couldn't believe it. Yeah, I've seen I've seen that no name, no pactrials, so I identify the people. But I've seen that with people that just can't accept it and they don't. It's not you can't even take offense because it's not done maliciously. It's just something that they don't even haven't even comprehended.
Nah, they'd never crossed in my own one. So, like you know, I have all the kids my mom had, I was the worst one. I was the most violent. I was a forty player. I always played rugby. I was always never shy of a fight. I you know, worked in the meat industry for ages, you know, which is quite a masculine sort of environment, and I am quite a masculine sort of guy. But it was also just am attracted to two men. So yeah, it was.
It was such a funny coming out. And I remember my twenty first turned into all of but four people was one of my my big sister, my older sister, my two parents, and my partner at the time, and that was my whole twenty first at year. I went from being a party to.
Four people because you'd come out, yeah, to confronting.
Yeah, I think I just for a lot of people.
Oh mane, that's sad.
Yeah, I know what you mean. It was ended up just actually, to be honest, it was a really nice twenty first, I ended up just having dinner with my folks and my big sister and it was but you know it was it was really sad at the time. It was really sad. And I had I had people message me and you know, be like that, don't talk to me, and I don't want to know you. And I had cousins message me and say, don't come to family Christmas.
See I just I know feelings like that can run strong with certain people, but I didn't think it would get to that stage, not this day and age. But you had people just overtly coming stay away from me.
Yeah, stay away from me. I had cousins say, don't come to family Christmas. You know, I'm from a Mildi family, an Indigenousaily we have big Christmas is like forty people plus, and they'd be like, They're like, don't come to family Christmas. I don't want to eat my lunch next to a faggot.
I didn't think it would be that strong, But that might be just me being naive, like it.
Yeah me, and like, yeah, it could be all the years in Sydney because Sydney is quite gay. Yeah, pretty used to it. And when I talk to people over here in Sydney and stuff like that. You guys have had a gay scene. You've had Marty Grus since the age.
Yeah, okay, that makes sense. That makes sense.
Like I was in christ Juche, Christich when I was When I lived in christ Uch they didn't have a Pride march. The only pride march they had was a white Pride march. There was, Yeah, they had a white Pride march, but not a gay pride.
Mane in the air, isn't it. Yeah.
Yeah, So that just speaks volumes on the sort of city I was living it at the time. And that's New Zealand. If you want to know what New Zealand's like, it's it's an amazing country. Like I love my country, I love my people, I love it. But if you want to know what rural New Zealand's like, it's like just think about Australia in the seventies or eighties. Yeah, it's just still the same culture.
That makes sense. How did it make you feel the fact that you came out. Was that a big weight off your show? Yeah?
It was great.
It was so great.
It was it was it was the initial initially, it was the first key to my release. I was I was stoked. I almost immediately, you know, within the next couple of months, I stopped doing drugs, and I stopped doing drugs. I stopped hanging out of those and I wanted to stop, especially after getting run over and all the rest of everything else that happened. I've been homeless and everything making kills.
Yeah. Yeah, that's what my mom fucking said.
That's exactly what you said.
Yeah, okay, So it seems to me what you're saying here is that this whole burden that you've been carrying about hiding your sexuality has been lifted. Yeah, life's looking a little bit brighter. It's not all doom and gloom anymore. You're not living living the lie. What are these drugs for? I don't need them.
I don't need them. Yeah. I like my reality. Now that's great, and it's an exciting thing. Now I've got this thing I can build, which is my life. I've got this life I get to build. I get to actually be in the same value line as what I you know what I mean, I can live that same life. I don't have to worry about what's the worst thing that people are going to say? All the things that ever held me back was in the back of my mind. I could always hear people saying fuck you gay or something.
And to be honestly, you have the funny thing about that is it's like, yeah, I am. It's not even that takes a sting out of it, takes this thing out of it. It's like, funny you should say that, like what are you gay or something? It's likely funny you say that I am gay. So yeah, it was. It was a huge weight and and it was this exciting opportunity for me to be like, right, what I want to do was the life I wanted to live.
I used to have all these fantasies as a young boy going or young boy but the young man going, I'm going to run away to San Francisco or I'm going.
To go somewhere, be true to myself and live my life.
I live my life, you know, and escape this this this you know situation I'm in. And then now I'm like, I can actually do that, I can actually do what I want to do. I can start building building steps towards the life that I want to live and start creating my life and not be afraid I wasn't afraid anymore, Like the scary part had been done.
That's an interesting way to put it. You're not afraid anymore. That's horrible going through life if you're afraid that term like I was afraid. Yeah, just being yourself in life.
Every day, just afraid of my own existence. You're afraid of afraid of the reality of my own existence. And so yeah, after coming out, it was pretty pretty quickly. I just stopped doing drugs. My partner didn't do drugs and he didn't want he didn't want any drugs. I still drank, but there was a kid, and I just worked really hard. I got an apprenticeship at a really good butcher shop and it was one of the best in the country, and I really wanted to actually get qualified.
I never got you have a trade. So I knuckled down and for the next three years I just worked really hard. I did big days, you know, I do seventy five hundred hour weeks in the shop. And my apprenticeship a I did the butchery competitions in New Zealand. I got dirt equal in New Zealand as a butcher, and you know, I really loved it. I really loved it.
It became a whole world. Life was going well, really good.
But you know, from going from twenty years old and being run over by a car and being gang affiliated and a drug addict to being twenty three and being out of the closet, gay man, fully qualified, butcher, and I'd saved enough money to get pre proof for a home loan.
Yeah, well, full full credit to you. Yeah well, And I'd like to end the podcast here, but I'd love that when we and you lived happily ever after that it's a beautiful story and what a great way to finish high catch killers. But sadly we don't finish that way certainly. Let's know how the song love hurts? Yeah, exactly, tell us, okay, say the perfect life it was.
It was that white picket fence. And I really thought that at the time, was like I've done it. I've built that white picket fence. I've gone from you know, sixteen, having nobody to live and been terrified and then all the rest of it, and then getting to twenty three, and I remember getting pre proof for a home loan and just going like, wow, I'm going to buy a house. You know, this house is going to set me up. By the time I'm thirty, I might have a couple
more under my belt and maybe a butcher shop. And who knows, life is looking good, really good, you know, being twenty three and looking to buy buy your first time, it's pretty good. And may do where you live. My partner at the time, it was my fiancee at the time. Actually, at that point I proposed. I'd asked, as I remember messaging his old man it's Big Mauldi Feller in South Auckland game. Hey bro, I'd love to, you know, to
marry your sons that are good of you. And he gave me his blessing, and so I proposed, and well, one of my cars has been repossessed. I did have fiction notice on on on my house. My phone was cut off, my internet was cut off, and my power was cut off. And I was like, what the fuck's going on here? And he goes, I'm really sorry, but I lost my job a few months ago and I didn't want to tell you, and you're working so hard and and we've got nothing. And I was like, what
do you mean we've got nothing? I've got fifteen thousand dollars in a bank account. And he's like, we've got nothing, and I was like what. And then I panicked and I went and got a second job. I was just how much and I was in love with this guy. I went and got a second job to try and work my.
Way out of the debt.
I was so attached to this dream of having this life that I'd built, and I didn't want it to be a failure because of thinking in the back of my head, I was just picturing all those guys I used to kick it with, who you know, I had to come out of the closet too, and stuff like that, them just seeing my failure, and I was like, no, I don't want him to know that I failed. I want my life to get success.
That makes sense.
I looked like I was twenty three, and I looked like I was fifty. I looks so bad and getting more and more depressed and mentally ill because of all because of the stress and anxiety and stuff like that. And then I moved all this stuff out, moved all of my stuff into my dad's garage. I didn't want to go in my mom and dad's garage. I didn't want to go and stay with my mom and dad because my dad's really homophobic. I to joke about it,
but like, I don't. I honestly don't know why he was so homophobic, but yeah, and so I didn't want to just followed my pride. And I was living in this car. So there's five thousand dollars drug dealer Beima that I owned when I first when we first got to give her, and I'm living in this car. I had to move the car every night. I had to move the car every night, and it was minus twelve at night. It was fucking freezing and christy. I remember
I used to used to line my car. I try to sleep at the park in my car, and I used to have bruised ribs because I'd be convulsing in the cold. It was mine as twelve, I'm dying. I'm just convulsing in the cold, just shivering and just feeling sick. It was probably the most I'd never experienced sorrow like that before in my life.
It was a case you had no one in your life you could reach out to, or you were too ashamed to reach out.
I think too ashamed. I definitely had people I could talk to. My mom was trying to help as b she could but I was so emotionally unstable. Yeah, it was. It was. It was quite surreal. I'd not only lost my best friend in my partner, who I loved of all my aunt you know, I loved this man so much I wouldn't got a sicking job for him. But I'd lost everything. I was financially, emotionally and spiritually destitute.
Okay, it makes sense. So you've lost the love of your life. Then the betrayal adds to it. Yeah, you've lost the finances and your pretty little life with the white picket fence that you had set up and had dreamed about and finally was in reach. Yeah, it has just been blown away.
Blown away. The whole thing was a lie, and I was getting phone calls ten times a day from different deck collectors. Heyomi money for this Hayomi money, for this hoo money. The bill was about thirty two thousand dollars I ended up owing, which is it's a huge loss of money. It's a lot of money for a twenty three year old kid. It's a lot of money. It's really scary, especially when you're only making seventeen dollars an
hour and that was my wage. Dirty two grand was heaps, and I just thought I'm gone, Well, my hard work was over.
I was so angry.
And it wasn't long after that I bumped into one of my old cronies who used to kick it with actually the pills I was talking of it before.
That's lessener war. I mean, this is where it goes sad.
Against and again. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, I've bumped into it. It was just it was this weird thing. I've just been fired from my job. I ended up bashing one of the apprentices. I think I was just gotten qualified and he was a first year apprentice, was real lippy, little shit and he'd ah, he mouthed off to me, and I just split it. I just pinned him up against the wall. Well, it's funny because all you can
actually see on the cameras. I'm not so fast about this, but we can see is he's trying to leave the building to get away from me, and you can just see on the security cameras it's just my arm reach reach out. It was like a cartoon lift my arm reach out of the door, and I just grabbed.
Them and just lifted him off his feet.
It's a little than me. I lifted him off. I was big to about one hundred and twenty kilos, lifted him off his feet, pulled him back into the room and just and yeah, gave him a bit of a hiding. And I got fired for it. I resigned, had no job. I was in all this debt. That was the last thing I needed was to lose my job, you know, that was all I had going for me. And I bumped into this fellow. I gotten pay out from my week they'd paid me out to leave, and I've seeing
this fellow and I was like fuck. I told him everything had happened, and he goes, fuck, I just put up with my misses too, you know, I don't know what to do. And we were kicking it, and he goes, hey, Roy, if you want, I can get these ounces of MDM a fix amount of money. And then I did the maths and I was like, fuck, if I sell that in one weekend, I'm making five thousand dollars. And that was it. That was like fucking thumb.
And it's interesting, and I appreciate your openness and honestly, but the fact that your life was going in the right direction that sat set back. Yeah, all that pain comes back on you and you revert back to and to me, it's not the person you want to be, it's not the person you really are, But you just find your way in that lay place again, and you're dealing drugs.
Yeah, dealing drugs yeah, and taking them in high quantity too. And it's funny. I hadn't done drugs in three years, and I hadn't done anything like that in three years. Here. I wasn't a perfect person. I'd been in a few dust ups then too, especially when I come out of the closet at work belted a couple of guys because they tried to fight me for it, and I was never really shy that. But I was not a criminal. I wasn't hanging out of criminals and didn't hang out of criminals and a do criminals.
And you felt fatter about yourself when you keep.
Yeah, yeah, heeps better.
Yeah.
And I was felt a lot more stable and and everything was good. I was really quite proud of the person I was becoming. I still had lots of work to do, but you know, it's it's a it's a it's a process. And and yeah, it wasn't long after that I was I was back to using drugs, back to dealing drugs. But this time around, I was more determined than ever to be a high profile guy. Like before then, I was never like profile. It was just I was.
It was a nobody.
I was a street ruffian, you know. I was not doing anything special, dime a dozen, sort of crook. And and then but this time around, I was like, I want to be.
I wanted to make a statement. Yeah, I want to make a statement. I want to be.
I want to be somebody I want I want I want to take my power back.
You said when we were chatting the other day that you were just angry, just angry and stuff. That's I'm going to take on the world. Yeah, you do this to me. I've had so many kicks in the guts. I'm angry now it's payback time.
Yeah, because I tried my best. I tried so hard, you know, and I really did. I tried so hard. I tried my best and then it didn't work out. And all that said to me was that it was just a sign from the universe that this is not what you're supposed to be doing and the like, and I just thought, you know what, fuck could I have lost it all? I tried my best and it didn't pan out, so at least I can say I've given it a nudge. And and now I wanted I want my power back, I want what was taken from me.
You've taken everything from me, and I want to back. So yeah, and that was my that was my goal. And so I just started off just selling, just selling drugs again. And then very quickly, I think, through determination and probably just the lack of I was I didn't really care about any consequences, so I said yes to everything. That really quickly developed into into a life that I never thought that I would I would be into so fast.
So you got into debt collecting. Yeah, so yeah, when we say deck collecting, there's a lot of different perceptions of what deck collicked is. But you're a virtual standover man, and if the money's not forthcoming, there's usually consequences and it might be a bit of a flogging.
Yeah, yeah, pretty much. There's a lot different the way combank operates. But yes, and like I got into that because I'd almost had a personal vendetta because I'd lost everything.
Yeah you said that, and I really appreciate your openness. Yeah, you wanted to I'm going to approve of a tough guy. I'm going to approve this world. But and I just had to clarify with you. I didn't want to have a psychopath on here. But how it wasn't you. You knew it wasn't you. It was just this false bravado that you thought, Yeah, I can do this. If I've got to belt someone to collect money, I'll do that.
Yeah, yeah, and looked, I've never I don't think i've ever had a I've never been in a dust up or I've never been in it and done anything violent where I haven't left that situation feeling worse and gone like fuck that, What did I do that for that? That person's going to go home, They're going to feel like shit, you know that.
Yeah?
I always felt bad about it.
Doing the deck collecting thing was.
For me. It was I managed to convince myself like I was almost on a crusade, you know what I mean. I was almost felt like I tried to convince myself I was some sort of vigilante in this sense. And at first it was about money, but then it became in the end of it, I started doing jobs that had nothing to do with money. And people were just paying me to enforce people just you know, some guy would just give me two and a half grand and go, can you go and flog this come for me?
And I would yes, sure, I'd love to. What was your mindset before you went in and did that? Yeah, it's all right to say when you're doing the deal and yeah, I've got that. But when you pull up and there's a blake and you're thinking, I'm going to give him a touch up here because whatever reason, what was going through your mind, then.
It's funny you actually say that because it's such a big contrast of sitting down and sit down and have the meeting with the client, and I would go like, you know, what's the situation? And then they would tell me, and then I would go and then I would sort of asked for more information, like we does this person live? Who else lives at the house? What can you tell me about the house? Or I got to go scope
it out. Sometimes i'd give you fuck. I remember there was one guy gave me no information whatsoever, just a photograph and that was really it, just a just a Facebook profile picture I managed to get and then he goes, this is where he lives and who else lives at the house, what's the situation? Who lives on the street. Is it a gang street? Is he in the gang? What's the He gave me fly all information, and I hated it because I had to sit outside this coun's
house for a week to SI scope them out. Yeah, work it out. And and when you're in that meeting, it's really easy to be like, yes, sweet, sweet, sweet, I do that.
That's easy.
That's easiest. It's so easy to say yes. It talks cheap. And then when you're sitting outside that house, it's very different. It's very different, and you just go into work mode. You just go on the work mode. I just go into work mode. Don't be wrong. Almost all of it, I think, if not all of it was drug induced.
Right, Okay, So that's taking a bit of the emotional intelligence out of your thought process.
Yeah, you're all your well, all your empathy and sympathy is gone, so you don't feel any of that. And then all your you can all your inhibitions are gone, so you don't have any inhibitions. You just going okay, sweet, I can you know, you just go into work mound and just go I'm going to do it. And that's how you calm yourself down. You make a plan. Like my mum always said, a dream without a goal is a goal without a plan is a dream.
So you may breaking it down.
So you make a plan and you go, Okay, this is what I'm gonna do. The fellow is going to come out of the house. You're going to go to his work truck. I'm going to tap them on the shoulder and I'm going to have them in the legal this and then you're going to do this, this and this.
Yeah okay. And so with the drugs, it helps because I know if you if you're going to go into a violent situation, you get yourself ready for it. And I think, okay, well I'm up for this. I'm about to do this. I know what I'm going to do. But you've got to get yourself in the let mind mindset yourself. Yes.
So I think I sat outside this guy's one of this guy's house for three or four nights scoping it out and getting as routine and stuff like that. And then then the day of the morning of I would have sat outside his house from about two in the morning onwards, just smoking balls, just smoking bowls and bowls of shard.
Because I'm sensing you not the type of blake here would take the drugs aside that you'd be going, Yeah, that's cool. I'm going to go give this bloke a flogging. In the times that we've spent together and talking to you, I get the sense that's not you. So with drugs here again masking the pain of what you're going to do. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to go and and belt this bloke. I'm going to feel like a real shithead, but yeah, I'll take drugs and that'll that'll mask it. Yeah.
I think what drugs did more than anything is they encouraged my I didn't realize until years later after I did trauma counseling and stuff like that.
I remember I did this.
I had to do the bunch of tests, test if you're a psychopath, test if you this and that, And I did the bunch of tests and I came back and I think I'd scored this woman who she'd worked in criminal psychology for her whole life years thirty years or something like that, she'd never seen anything. I think I scored one of the highest was not yeah, it was scored one of the highest in New Zealand for
disassociation disorder. So what I didn't know until then was it wasn't necessarily just the drugs that were like numbing me. But what they were doing is when they were helping encourage my disassociation disorder, so I could disassociate in the time with what you were doing. What was doing, so you don't feel anything. It's like you're in a movie. It's all make believe. The whole world just goes make believe and you just sort of just go number the world.
You completely detach from reality and you just go.
Yep, is that something that flowed on from what happened to you when you were a child? Did you break that down? And yeah, because I can imagine what you describing. There is a way that you can cape with things as a child, and then even when you're suppressing your sexuality.
Yeah, absolutely, And it worked in every element of that were like when it first started getting molested, That's what I would do. I would disassociate so I wasn't happening. I wasn't even if I was in the room, it wasn't real. I could just sort of switch off the contact with reality and they just didn't feel like any of it was real, and that's how I suppressed it. And you know, when you're five years old and you're going a guy forcing you to drink his piss, it's
pretty easy to do that sort of stuff. And that's really what's engineto that zone where you just just disassociate and you just go, I'm not I'm not in the room, and then coming out and will being gay. I remember when I first started, sleeping of guys used to make me sick, sick to my stomach.
Do you used to have your interaction with your partner and then hate yourself?
I hated myself when I first started. I remember I used to meet me physically ill and I'd be like, what have I done? I was so ashamed of myself. But the end, again, that disassociation, we could make me like, snap out of it. I hadn't done that. I'm not gay, I'm not gay, And if somebody would say I was gay, I'd fucking club you in the head.
Okay, even lie to yourself.
Oh yeah, my whole life was. My whole life was lying to me first, I think in the line everybody else afterwards?
How did it? How did it go? When you became your second career path in the world of criminals, we're bigger, braver, stronger, your second lot. How did that game being the gay, tough guy in that environment.
I think there was an element in the I think there was a combination of people respected it. I was pretty reckless and I was pretty hardcun and I would go into situations, you know, later on in my life when I was you know, that second time I went down that criminal path, I was a very different person. I was very sure of myself. I'd come out, I'd overcome that bat or. I didn't have that insecurity anymore.
And I didn't give a fuck what people thought. And I was in it the winner and I was like, you know what, I'm I'm angry and I'm here to.
Do it okay. So that might have given a bit of respect and that don't fuck with me.
Don't fuck with me, Like yeah, yeah, absolutely, because it was pretty brazen. Some of the stuff i'd do. I'd do fucking drug deals and there'd be a there might be a fucking rebel in the car and I'd do a drug down. I'd be like, that guy was kind of cute a he was pretty good looking you rick, and he was gay, and the fellow look at me and like, what the fuck are you talking about? And that always always said the same thing. They've always like, fuck,
I forget that you're gay. Yeah, I was pretty brazen. I didn't I didn't really care about it. I was and I didn't eide it from anybody. I did. I did. I'd met up with a fellow to do a force job. Wasn't even deck collection, I don't think, just an enforcing job.
I had to move this guy out of this house, setting down and he's just like, oh you need you ask me good a missus and stuff like that, which is fifty He's like, I don't know why you'd ask your dec collector if he's got a wife and kids, you know what I mean, Like, what are you're trying to build a relationship before? But I was like, no, no, I'm gay, and he just looked at me and he's just like, I think there was this you see this look in his eyes of kind of like confusion and
then terror. Yeah, you see a lot of terror in people's eyes when you're like the hardest guy in the room. Were one of the most rickless guys in the room and you're sitting there and you're being a hardcunt, and and then you also say I'm gay.
You drop that. Yeah, I can. I can see where people.
This guy's fucking different, you know, like this guy's even gone through hell and back and that's why he's so staunch about it. But I think there was this element too. I don't know if this is true, but I think this element of this guy's like, damn, this guy might not just flog me.
It could be worse. Yeah, yeah, I think that would have crossed his mind too. Yeah, couple of people.
Yeah, I took a lot of I took a lot of pride and being and being openly gay sort of gangster, and yeah, I wasn't really brazen about it, but I never had it from people.
You didn't.
I didn't hide it from people. And I think it was you know, part of that was because at that time, I never planned to join a gang. When I was younger, I wanted to join a gang and I wanted to have that inclusion, and I knew that lifestyle was that, you know, gangs would never even if I was a real hard gun, I don't think a gang would give me that I could I could do one hundred earns. I could do one hundred.
Jobs for somebody and know they wouldn't patch me.
Everybody in a different different organizations all around the world that are liked that, you know, I wouldn't expect to see the Pope with a rainbow aad on, you know what I mean, It just wouldn't. It's just not their organization. And I don't care.
So your your career as a gay gangster, when did you decide to change that?
Well, some of the stuff I was doing. I was working, and it was a combination of things where I was always I was already really unhappy because of the whole relationship breakup. I didn't really have any stable place to live. It's about a year later. I was just sort of still living out of my car. I would catch if I drive around. I was just doing drug runs, so and you know, I would do a few odd jobs
on the side. It was you know, a laboratory, old stopping and say hello too, and stuff like that, and you know a few other things and say, you know I was doing I was doing a lot of dumb shit and my life was going nowhere, and and and I think the whole aura of being this big bad guy was starting to get over it. He gets boring, after all, Like it gets boring. People don't talk about how boring it is being a criminal. It's the same rhetoric over and over again. There's no growth. A tough guy,
tough guys. You were you going to say that for forty years? You want to skip doing the same shift for forty years. No growth, there's no intellectual discussions. Now you don't. And and that used to ship me. And then I was getting really like heavy back into using drugging. So I was starting to intraveneous drugs. So I was injecting mdmay and crystal meth and all the rest of it.
And my addiction was getting pretty bad. And I remember I was working in this and I was in this gang pad and every night the fucking police trains were flying around the perimeter of the pad filming everything, and we're fucking having to talk on whiteboards. You got to write everything on a whiteboard, sheltz, you mate scribble it out and then you know, rub it out and then we have conversations like that, and it was all just getting a bit crazy. I was like, what am I
doing in my life? I always wanted to be an actor or something along those lines. I always thought I wanted to be something like that in the arts, never had an outlet for it. But now I had no reason not to pursue it.
You're not leaving leaving the perfect life.
Nah, exactly, I had nothing. I had nothing to lose, and I just thought, you know what, I want to give this a crack before everything sort of tunes to custard and I went to I watched a comedy special on Netflix in my cousin's house, sleeping on the couch, and then I thought, this is great. I want to give this a try. And then I ended up signing up for this open mic in Auckland City just about it. I remember it was probably about a year after I
watched that special. I had this opportunity to do this open mic in Auckland and I just thought it was a shitty dive bar, and I thought, yeah, I'll go and give this a nudge. I thought, he's going to be maybe seven, all of seven people, and no one's gonna laugh, and I'm probably never gonna do it again, but I want to give it a nudge. And I fucking signed up with this open Mic and it was the biggest comedy club in New Zealand. It was a two hundred seat theater and they had no idea. I
had no idea about that world. I had knew nothing about it. So when they said the Classic, I was like, oh, yeah, cool whatever, get there and there's a two hundred seat theater.
I'm wearing gang colors. I think I just smoked a massive joint and.
I walked out and I walked I remember I smoked the massive joint and I walked into the room and then I realized how big it was and I just went fucking wide.
I was like, oh what am I doing it?
Get on stage. The first act was really bad, and I was like, Okay, I can't be that helps. I can't be any worse than this. Surely it wasn't just bad. It was really weird and it was just weird. So I was like, I can't be I'm not going to be that guy. And I got on stage and I did pretty well and they go, mate, that was pretty good. Do you want to come back at the end of the month. And I always said that before I went into I said, if they asked me back, then I'll
come back then it's meant to beat. So I go back at the end of the month. I did another five minutes, Holy five minutes, and they're like, yeah, that was really good again. And uh, there's a really big comedian in the room. He's on Best Male Comedian in Hes Zealand. Me ten times on Sendy on TV when I was a kid. I really loved his work. And he goes, boy, come over here, and I was like, I was like yeah. He's like, he's like, how many times you've been on stage? I said that was my
second time. He goes, fuck, that was great. And the crew at the comedy club said to me, the god you know, there's a there's a competition actually you can sign up for for the best new comedian. It's called Raw. It's the best new comedian in the country. And I was like, oh cool, I'm all good. Thanks, I'm fine. You know, I'm fine. I'm still a criminal, you know. I don't really want to know if I want to be doing. And they're like, no, no, you signed up
for it. When you signed up. When the first open mic, your name's in the hat. And I said, oh, yeah, cool. Whatever happens happens. And now no, we're telling you because you're you're in the semi final, you're in the top twenty four in the country.
Yeah.
And I was like what and they're like, yeah, you come back. At the end of the month, I did the Simis, I got into top ten in the country. And then like eight months later, I remember I was doing the Grand Finals and I was getting nominated for the Best New Comedian in New Zealand. I got nominated out of four people in the country, got nominated for this award. And when I started doing comedy, I fucking loved it. Loved it, man, I loved it so much.
And did you know you had a talent for it? Did you, like you said you wanted to do something creative, something in the arts. Did you know you had a talent for a stand up?
Never thought of that stand up? Never once, never thought that it could ever tickle what I was scratched the ytch. I never thought comedy would be I thought I'd do acting or maybe music. I thought something like, I'd never consider comedy. I don't know why. I'd never never crossed my mind. I'd never been a comedy close before that, I'd never watched live stand.
Up, but I reckon it would have to be one of the hardest gigs because it can even be really good or it can be really bad. It can be complete silence, or it can be people killing over and dying with laughter.
Yes, it is exactly. That's so it's so hard. It's not like a song. Like if you can play the guitar and I give you a.
List of kit, you you've got something to present.
Yeah, you can play those notes and it's going to make that noise and there's a song. But with stand up it's not like that at all. It's it's so difficult and it's such a ceiling less sort of venture, if you know what I mean. So like for that for me, I love I love that. I love that. I don't even want to reach the top or those we're going to get bored.
Do you think the risk associated with it too rocks your boat in a way with all the lifestyle that you've had, the fact that getting up on stage you're really putting yourself out there each time.
I don't know, I love it, I love it, I don't and I find it so exciting I think looking back, you know, when I talk to classmates to do that I've got people who were in high school with me. I was a class clown. So when I got up there, it was really natural. And I remember there was this I got on stage and then I just come alive from day dot. I just come alive, and there was a person in there that that was who, that was
the real meat. And I didn't realize until getting on state that's what I had to do for the real Alliot to come out. I had to get on st agent talking to a microphone and entertained a bunch of people, and then all of a sudden, he comes out, and I was like, oh my god, well that's me. That's the real me. He lives on that stage.
Okay. It's interesting because I see you come alive when you're talking about it. Clearly you enjoy what you're doing there, and I wonder if that's just the culmination of all that suppressed shit that you've packed away all your whole life, and now on stage, I can be me. I'm not hiding from anyone.
Yeah, I'm not hiding. I can be exactly who I am. And I think it was the surprise of that person coming out. I didn't know that was going to happen. I didn't thought. I didn't plan for any of that. I just got up there and I just started going and then I just was like, Oh, that's me, That's who I am. Right there. He just came out and it surprised me, and I was like, it was such a beautiful girl.
And did that getting the high that you got from that? Did that push aside you need for drugs, you need for being the gay gangster?
And yeah, all of that whin all of that actually just became funny jokes because I just looked. I started looking at everything differently, and I was like, that's fucking ridiculous. It's like, what are you doing walking around? You know, what are you out to? And so I just started making jokes about it, you know, and they started making jokes about how I went from OG to LGBT and like that, and people loved it. They thought it was
funny and they thought it was so funny. And then I just started finding the beauty and everything after doing comedy, I started finding the beauty and everything and the funny and everything. It's funny and everything. And I think because I had so much suffering and so much loss and so many bad hands dealt to me. I just mean, you're ever gonna laugh or cry about it. I remember saying like, this is a joke. This is a joke out there everything I've been through, this is a joke.
And then I started saying it so many times. I changed the tone of my voice and going this is a joke. I was like, this is a joke. This is actually a funny. You know, this is funny.
It's interesting how you look at setbacks in life, isn't it. It's the way you can you can deal with it. You can hang on to that anger and just have the shits about it and hate the world. Yeah, or just laugh at yourself and go, oh who would have thought?
Yeah? And then and then and laughing at yourself. And so that was another thing I said. I started learning how to take accountabilit for my behavior. It was going like, you're a dick, mate, Like everything you're doing is bad. You're creating your own shitty environment in your life because you're bitter and you're twisted and you didn't like what happened to you fucking.
Tough titties, So you had to own that.
Oh yeah, that's the only way to get out of that. That's the only way to get out of this, the only way to get out of addiction. It's the only way to get out of not the only way to get out of addiction, but it's one of the key elements to get out of any of their lifestyle. Whether you're being a criminal or a drug addict or whatever it is that you're doing. If you're being a bad person, that's you.
Stop blaming the world.
Stop blaming the world. It's all you, mate, that's what you're doing. You know, you know you're in so much. You've got so many things that you can control in your life. Focus on them and control them, you know, control what you can can control. And stop trying to say that it's out of my hands. What just because somebody did something bad, so now that it gives you the opportunity to do something bad to someone else.
That's just stupid.
And it's easy for people to think to get into this mindset of like being a victim and gain I'm a victim here and I'm a victim and that's why I'm doing this, And it's just like, no, they have a little bit of money, have a little bit of a self control, and have a little bit of accountability because now you're a deck I think.
Yeah, the life lesson that you're giving to people there is just so important because time and time again, even things where people are victims of situations that it wasn't there recklessness or anything that caused it. But yeah, do you hate? Do you just keep why me, oh meom destroying your life or you turn it into something something positive? I think, And that's what fascinated me about about you when I was doing the prep for it and the
people that recommended you that. As I said at the start, most people we have here have turned their life around because they've been caught and they think, hey, this is not cool. I'm mocked in the sale eighteen hours a day. Oh duh. But you're just decided, through life's choices to turn your life around. Yeah. No.
And that was a combination of always being not a really combination of anything, but it was, you know, a combination of always being miserable. What was always missing? Always I was always unhappy, I was always miserable. And it turns out I was the one making making all of
those choices. No one was forcing me to do any of that, and all of the stuff that happened, happened anyway, Like they called me a faggot anyway, regardless of what I've done, regardless of how tough I was, regardless of all the bad things I've done, all the people that I hurt and all the people that I disappointed in my life, I'm still going to get called a fagot. So like, yeah, and just always being miserable, Like I was always unhappy, I was always broke, I was always
strong up. I mean, every fucking Christmas, I'd never have money to give presents to anybody. Felt horrible about it. But I always had drugs, and I remember, going next year is going to be different. Fuck, you do that ten times and a decade slipped through your fingers, and all of a sudden, I'm looking in the mirror and I'm twenty seven and I'm gone, Fuck, I've been using drugs and alcohol for the last fifteen years and I'm twenty seven.
Can slip by? I can't it slips by?
Mate? You know? Like that's the thing. Yeah, I had a fifteen year addiction at twenty seven. That's not that's not that. Those are not good statistics.
No, definitely not. What's we haven't got you to Australia. Why are you coming to Australia.
Why? Why to take back the pavlover that's books, to take back all our sports players. Now, I came to Australia for an opportunity. I got to the point in in in my life. Look, even when I first started comedy, I'd love to tell you it was it was open and shut case where I just started in comedy and my whole life changed that to day. But we all know that's just not how reality is. This just not
how life works. It takes years. So when I first started doing comedy, also started going through trauma, counseling and stuff like that, and it started to develop myself as a person because I was still a very angry person. When I first started doing stand up, I was still dealing drugs, I was still doing There was still a lot of bad things going on in my life and I was still just slowly fixing things bit by bit. And I was in a relationship at the time a
different person. This person to death. He's my best mate. Aastually love them to bits. But I ruined that relationship because I wasn't ready for it. I was still very hurt person. And I still had a lot of stuff to work through. And yeah, I stopped doing ice, but I was still a heavy drinker. I'm talking fifteen beers on a Monday heavy drinking. Yeah. And it was really that exploded because of comedy. My head exploded, my ego exploded because I was immediate success.
That's that's interesting too.
That's something that I and I talk to a lot of people about it where I'd like, see, you know, comics getting good gigs early on, and I just don't let it get to your head because it's a long road. It's a long road to good top, long road to the top. I started drinking really heavily at the start to replace the ice, smoking a lot of weed and drinking a lot, and I just became a massive alcoholic.
And through their alcoholism, I ruined my relationship. I lost my fucking job again, I lost my I lost everything again. I ended up living in a car again.
I love these cars.
I love these cars. Yeah, I know, I love these cars. I'm I couldn't believe I was back back to this situation. I was fucking spewing myself and like and I just remember thinking in my head, like just you just got to do what you love, you know what it means, Stop trying to pander around this situation like this is
this path? As were you goot to go? It was funny with comedies the only thing in my life really, and I hate to say this because I fucking let some people down who really didn't deserve it, and you know, like my last partner and stuff like that, my mom and my dad. I've disappointed a lot of people because of my behavior. And I would love to sit here and tell you that those people with the drive was the main driving force for me to sort my shit out, and they were in a big part. But it was
also comedy and a big part. It was never just one of those things. And when comedy got introduced into my life and my behavior started to affect my stand up fucking straight away, I cut it out of my life straight away. Nothing and nothing in my mind could even jeopardize stand up comedy for me. There was not a single high worth it. This is and I remember started doing comedy, I was like, this is better than meth. Yeah, this is great, you know, and I didn't want anything
to geopardize it. Yeah, natural high. It was amazing and just the amount of release and and and fulfillment that I got I got from doing stand up was so huge. It was so fulfilling because everything I ever wanted out of life. I was like, I'm five founder. I found my thing and see anything that jeopardized that, I instantly cut it out of my life. And so you know, my alcohol was terrible and stuff like that, and I just go and remember I started to pick my comedy.
I just quit open had a drink nearly two years.
And you feel good for it? Yeah, I love it.
Yeah it's been great.
Yeah, I love it.
But see you now, I was living in a car, had had fuck all going on again.
I was they got these things called camp events.
Yeah you should, that's just you know, it's so funny. I remember getting more involved into into mainstream media and what people get up to on Instagram and the stuff like that. I've known the TV in years and and and open up Instagram. I'm making Instagram and stuff like that, and and and check it out. And I see all these parking, all these white girls and Byron Bay driving around going fan life, fan life, and I was like,
fuck you, lady, aunt. That was my reality, like until my van life to me like I used to live in a car. I mean holmost three times in my life, Like I do hear you?
So when you came to Australia, did you have it? Have a plan? Nothing?
No plan?
So that's cutsy in itself.
Yes, essentially just I quit drinking on the first of July. Yeah, and then sixteen days later I was on a plane to Sydney. I had a sister, my big sister, older sister. She lived here and I slept in his spare room for a month or so. She lived about four doors down from a butcher shop. I walked in and I said, did they follow? I said, on and try some of your sausages of a butcher and he goes, fuck that. You just want a job, I was like. I was like, yes, sweet.
So I got a job in about two days. Then he got my found my own apartment, and then he just started doing it. And I really started doing standing up a lot in Sydney probably about a year and a half a year ago, and it's been such a whirlwind.
If people want to catch your act or follow you, where can they follow you?
You can follow you an Incia Elliott McLaren on instant Graham Look, I'm I suck.
At social media. I share it with your brother.
Do you know what? I feel bad saying it to anybody who's who's slightly older than me, because you're only slightly older than me.
Gary, Yeah, just I think so.
Yeah. So I struggle with it a lot, but you can follow me on Alian McLaren. I'm trying to figure it out, man, you know, like I was fucking strung out drug addic for years, so trying to figure out all this, all the social media stuff. And I hate that because I'm twenty nine. Yeah, you know, and I'm the only guy I know.
You should be Yeah, you should be going blah blah, I thought you game blah blah blah blah blah. I get a right, no idea.
I've got all of like seven hundred followers. I've got no idea how to do social media. But follow me on there because I'm learning how to do it and I'm going to be putting up a lot more content.
And that's you're clearly working very hard, hard on it, and it's something that you continually refine.
Yeah, it's a funny thing. When you first start, you do type five. If you can get five minutes and material you're stoked. I was thinking about this last night. I remember having to do five minutes at the start and being terrified of not having enough content.
For five five minutes.
Yeah, and then all of a sudden people say ten minutes and I'm like, fuck, that's not enough time.
So that's when you got your life on track. And then you've contracted HIV, which is yeah, there's a lot of ignorance about HIV and how you live with it. What's your experience?
Just look it's at the start, I was really quite solemn about the whole situation. I would imagine that it was really quite sad, and like you said, Gary, it was funny. And now I've come over to Australia, I'm doing really well. And then all of a sudden last year, towards the end of the year, I remember I got really sick. Fuck. First my jaw ballooned up. I had this abscess in my tooth and I've ballooned right up.
I've got some antibiotics and I fixed it. And then after that I got I had this cough for months. I had so much going on. I had to I had to, you know, Thursday morning, and I had this in fiction and on my ask you. Actually, it just started growing and grind over the period of about two weeks. Fuck. I just kept carrying on of it, and I thought, it's nothing, it's nothing. It's a spider bite. Originally, spider bit me in bed, and I didn't think too much
of it. And I just because it wasn't a deadly spider, it wasn't a white so or anything like that. I didn't know.
I'm talking shit, I don't know nothing about spider. I didn't realize you whatever.
Yeah, so I've got no idea, but I'm pretty arrogant and pretty reckless, and I just go, it's probably nothing, It'll be all good. I woke up on Sunday morning and there's infection. It was like the size of a fucking grapefruit now is massive, and my fever had a really high fever from the infection. I had a sore throat. I was getting sick from all the bacteria in my body. And I remember I fainted, got up in the morning and go to the toilet and I fucking just dropped,
and I was like, this is not good. I don't feel good. You know, I'm a little bit concerned so I booked an uber. I remember I walked in there and the ladies I take your trousers off, and I was like, oh'm I used to doing this lady and she looked at the infection and she goes, holy fuck, she dropped in clipboard. She didn't swear, I don't think she dropped in clipboard. And then she picked the clipboard up and fucking hit me on the shoulder with it.
And she's like, what are you doing? You're an idiot? Like what's wrong with you? And I said why? How bad is it? She's like, you're going to die. She said, you're going to die. You're going to die, mate, Like you're going to die. You're so lucky you're here right now, Like I can't believe you're still standing. They put an IV into me straight away. I had about four bags of antibiotics in an IV, which is an interesting thing.
I will say, even now with all mause, I get a lot of blood tests and stuff having HIV, and I still get I still get flashbacks from it from shooting up right right, Yeah, I still get flashbacks. When they put their needle in my arm, I'm like, I like, yeah, here we go again. I got to go to a different place because it's fuck it. It just brings back to many memories. And so they put that in my arm and then they just did an emergency surgery and they
just they put me to sleep straight away. They give me generatorsidic put me to sleep and then cut doesn't fiction out of my out of my out of my butt cheek. And I woke up the next morning and I felt was like real groggy. I got a phone call and they're like, oh, this is this is the Blood's department and I said, oh yeah, sweet yeirs like, how is everything you know, because like we got your blood test back? And I said, how is everything? Goes? Everything? All good?
Is the in fiction gone? Is?
You know? White blood cell count? All good? Is everything okay? And they're like, oh, mister McLaren, were very sorry, but you've you've come back reactive with HIV. And I was like, what does that mean. They said, it doesn't mean you've definitely got it, but when you did come to Sydney Sexual Health in Sydney Hospital for retesting. And so I got on the train, I limped into the thing and by the time I got there, they'd retested all my bloods and they go, look, we're really sorry, mister McLaren,
but you've got HIV. And I just broken the tears. I just started crying. I was so sad. Yeah, I was so sad, and again a lot of shame, again, a lot of shame. I felt really embarrassed, felt quite dirty, you know, it felt quite dirty. There was still you know, there's still a lot of stigma about HIV and which you're contracting it as a gay man.
You do feel quite shamed and quite dirty.
And you know, I think a lot of those comments as a young fellow, they came back up when I used to you, I used to hear it.
That's when, Yeah, they were talking about AIDS and the Grim Reaper and and.
I used to hear people say, fuck them, fagus, they deserve to get AIDS and die. What are they doing with their lives? You know, fucking sick caunt. So you know, when when I got HIV, that really really rattled me, and they sort of thoughts of resonating in my head, and I was just I was just really sad and I'm very grateful Sydney. I think it really needs to take it. It's it's head off to itself and really
pat itself on the back and Australia in general. But because I know it's not like this in New Zealand, but Australian general, but really Sydney, I'm so grateful. I think it's it's such an amazing thing what you guys have done here with the level of care for people with HIV. It's it's incredible. Like they sit you down,
the doctor talks to you. I mean you, I saw cry my eyes out for about two or three minutes and then pulled myself together, and then they offer you free counseling every We can go to accounset every week for as long as you want to sort of just comprehend it. They've got all these great groups you can go to, like Acorn and stuff like that, which a little groups of people consider. And Acorns really good, so
because it's full recovering drug addicts as well. So you say, it's because a lot of those things come hand and hand it introvenious needle use in the HIV, so really good things. And they put me on medication and I think the first week I listened to streets of philadelph first day I go home and I listened to Streets of Philadelphia. If you're not familiar, it's the theme song for Philadelphiahia fucking cried my eyes out, and then about the next day I felt a bit sorry for myself again.
I went to the library and wrote some jokes, and then the next night went to a comedy show and I tried to do some jokes about having it, and that was it, and I got over it really fast.
Yeah, because I know when we talk the other day and I said, can we talk about it? And you said you're happy, happy to talk about it, and you said, look, I'm living my life. I've come to terms of it. Because I understand you're saying. You're crying first up when you've the diagnosis or the tests come back, and you're thinking, Okay, does this destroy my life? But you can still live a life now, can't Yeah, because that's what I'm sure
the listeners are going. Okay, I carry asked the question, asked the question you can still live a life and have a partner and everything else.
Yeah, you can, Like you can live it. I almost felt embarrassed after everything. I mean, Truce, you're going to cry and it's only natural, and that's a normal thing to do, but you almost feel embarrassed. After I had a big cry about it, I was like, the fuck am I crying about? Like it's totally manageable. I take one pillar day that I don't pay any money for, totally free, Like if I didn't have that, if I didn't get those pills for free. There are thousand dollars
for a month's prescription, so they're not cheap. They checked my blood's all the time. I've got a normal life, expect to see. The medication itself is so remarkable. Drops the viral load down. I don't know who fucking named it gay disease viral load, but what they were thinking of? What fourteen year old named that? But as I bring your kids to work and something, he's like, call it a viral load. They drops it down to under two hundred. So if it's under two hundred, then they got this thing.
And age of the community is called you the leader. You equals you, So that's undetectable equals untransmissible. So you can't even see it in the buds yest. Yeah yeah, so you can't see it in any of my bloods. I can't give it to anybody, which is you.
Know okay, and that that's the question. Like everyone that what we were schooled up with when it came out, it was just be so careful, you can catch it anywhere, drink out of the same glass, that type of stuff.
Yeah, I mean remember in Princess Die kissed that AIDS guy and there was Yeah that was radical, radical your time.
But yeah, it's comes so far.
Yeah, it comes so fast. So like you know, I live such a normal life and I've only had one bad thing happened, and that was I ran out of medication once.
Yeah, and I couldn't.
I was in Melbourne section when I was in the comedy Fish, I got really sick.
Right, okay, really sick. Really, you're going to stay on top of it.
You've got to stay on top of it. And and if you don't take your medication and you lapse on it and you haven't taken it, what can happen then is the virus can then develop.
Full blown.
Yeah, well, well can full blonde, but it can develop resistance to the anti viral medication. You do yourself a disservice, Yeah, because now there's medication. I've got one pill a day. It's really good and you want to stay on that for as long as you can, but if you stuff it up, then the virus can become stronger than that.
And yeah, you've talked about your recovery or steering your life in the not just with the HIV but your life in general. I want people to understand you've got to be able to have a laugh at things. Yeah, how much does that help in life, going through all the battles that you can go through life, that you can have a laugh at yourself? Yeah?
Only does it just not only does it help you you and your mental health, you know what I mean, because you can have a laugh about it and it sort of just doesn't make it feel so heavy, but also helps you learn a lot more because then you're being a little bit more vulnerable, you're being a little bit more like clear hitted about everything, and you know you're not so Like I learned a lot of lessons by being able to laugh at myself and be able to see this like the sarily sort like I was
saying before, and I look at myself and be like, what a fucking joke? Like what was I doing? Who do I think I was?
So? Who did I think I was?
You know, doing dumb shit and being and like, you know, especially like when you're a teenager and you're wearing all these gang colors and you're graffitiing and stuff like that, and you think you're the man and stuff like that. And like when I look at kids like that, and now especially you fellows, I've got those essays and oh my god, I guess, like how embarrassing you know when you're when those kids thirty, Fuck, I hope that. I hope that they've because you never know, somebody will never
grow up. Yeah yeah, but you know when they get to like thirty, they're going to be like what dick?
They look back? Well, yeah, as you grow too, you look at life and you learn so much. What you thought you knew in twenty is fuck all compared to what you know at thirty, and it just keeps going. Oh I did that, I.
Did that at twenty twenty four, twenty seven, and now I'm twenty nine and I'm still like, oh man, I don't know shit.
Are you will wrap it up? But are you you happy with what's happened in your life?
Fucking interesting question? I And you know what I think about this a lot. That's a That's a really tough question, because to say anything other than I am what I am would be ungrateful. In reality, you know what I mean, if you look at it, you know, good, bad, and ugly, it doesn't really matter. But to say to say that I wanted anything else than what I already am, now that'd be incredibly ungrateful. You know, I've I've had I've had a I've had a lot of bad, but I've
had a lot of good parts of my life. I've been showing a lot of love. I had a really loving mother, you know, and I had I've got great siblings and and all the rest of it. So like, yeah, it sucked, Yeah, I would I would have rather not probably not gotten molested.
It probably would have helped a lot in life.
I would have loved to grow up and accepting inclusive environment. And I would have loved to be able to come out of the closet and an appropriate age, and and also at any age I've felt I could have but just in a safe space and not have to hide myself or do anything differently. Yeah, and yeah, it would have been great. I probably would have. I think it would have been too easy. I would have gotten board.
I'm very grateful for the life I've got. I'm very, very grateful, and I'm very grateful to have such a good life. So many of us still don't have good lives, and there's so much there's so many atrocity is going on in the world right now, and it's all part of the beautiful adventure, you know. I really changed the way. I had an overdose, really bad overdose. One time. I took about seven meals of GHB and a shot classes I had a bad day and that'll help, and my
heart stopped. I was alone in my house and my heart stopped. I couldn't breathe. I remember I was slipping into this, into the into the ether, and and I remember thinking in my head at the time, I was like, if I don't start breathing now, I'm going to die and I'm never going to come back. That's all I knew. And I started breathing. I got my lungs working. I pretty much had to manually breathe for about four hours. Just had to like convinced, like just remember to breathe,
because you're not breathing. You have to remember to breathe. It's not on it's not on autopilot anymore. So I had to manually breathe for about four hours to keep myself alive. And I remember after that whole ordeal, I look back and I was like, Wow, you know, life's actually just just a beautiful, crazy, fun adventure and that's all it is. Like, it's so limited. We've got something like hardly any time on this earth, you know, we
get fuck. All goes so fast, you know, it goes so fast, just like that, you know, like you can And I remember that as a criminal. I remember saying to myself, that is a criminal. I was like, you know, they can. You can lose everything just as quickly as you can say I wish I never did that. Yeah, And that same amount of time with me saying, man, I wish I never did that. I could my whole I could be incarcerated for the rest of my life,
I could be dead. It gets so fast. You never got such a limited amount of time on this earth. And and because of that, it's a balance of not taking anything too seriously because it is all going to be over one day and it's all going to be forgotten, it's going to be dust in the wind, but then also not being nihilistic at the same time and going, yeah, it's still matters. You should still do what you love to do, and she's still you know, essions and stuff
like that in life. But you shouldn't be so worried about your failures. You should just pick yourself up and carry on because you know.
If you get through life without failing and anything, you can't build your character failure. I learn more every time I stuff up on something than any success. And if I just got success, then, as you've said, when you've got it in the stand up comedy at the start, you just take it for granted. Yeah, and then you lose what made you that good to start with.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, Yeah, my life's of life is a beautiful adventure. It's all going to be over one day, so you're just going to You're just gonna have fun with it, man, that is what it is.
Yeah, okay, Well that's that's a nice way for us to wrap up. And I just want to thank you for being so open and honest with discussing your life. And when I'm laughing at certain aspects of your life, I'm laughing with you, not at you. You do either. I don't look I think you've given a good insight into how life can go off track, but how you can turn it around. And yeah, just being honest with how long life can impact on people.
It can. Yeah, you know, things happen in life, but never give up on yourself and never get up and give up on your dreams. You know that's the only way you're really a loser in life.
Good advice, Good advice, Thanks Elliot, no worries. Elliott McLaren jess open about his life with an interesting chat. I still can't believe he turned his life around. He had some highs and lows and very complex life. It also makes me reflect on the insidious impact that the child's sexual abuse has and the pain that that carries people throughout their life and the way that they lived their life.
That I came away from that with a real positive attitude and I like to see people turn their life around, and he seems to have done it, and he has found these passion as a stand up comedian, and I really enjoyed the chat.