Week 6 (Social Influencers): How Influencers Are Covering The Diddy Trial With Make It Make Sense (MIMS)

I definitely don't feel like Diddy's going to do life in prison. I say 10 to 15 years, honestly. He might even walk. The women who have taken the stand, I don't believe that their testimonies were strong enough to put Diddy away for life in prison.

I think the defense, and this is just a personal on my own accord, but the reason why Diddy had these women having so many freak-offs and so many interactions with these men is because he wanted to be the one having these interactions with the men.

We are getting close to the end. During week six of the United States government versus Sean Combs, the federal judge excused juror number six, a 41-year-old Black man who gave inconsistent statements about where he lives. I'm Jerika Duncan, a CBS News national correspondent and anchor of the CBS Weekend News. Welcome to my podcast, I Am That Reporter. Thank you so much.

Yeah, I'm Stephanie Sue of Rotten Mango. I do a true crime podcast. And now this is the first trial I'm ever sitting on ever, like ever. And it's the most intense thing I've ever experienced in my life.

What made you want to cover it in this way? Yeah, so

we did like a four part series on this case. I think like collectively, probably close to nine hours of video content out there. And I just like I can't I can't get it out of my head. I mean, I spent so long just looking at all the lawsuits, going through it and filming. And I'm like, I'm so invested that I just want to see what happens. And I think the experience is so unique. And I know you guys have covered so many. So I'm like such a new peer.

And while it's fun for her, it's really no laughing matter. Stephanie Hsu has over 5 million subscribers on YouTube. Due to safety and privacy concerns, the creator of this YouTube channel has requested that we not give his name. So today to help us understand the story outside the trial, I'm joined by the creator of Make It Make Sense, the YouTube channel which has over 200,000 subscribers. Welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you so much for joining me. So I think for me and so many people I've spoken to about the importance of social media covering this trial, how did you get your start?

It was the weirdest thing. This was not supposed to be my life. I completely recognize that. I was interviewing for a new position during COVID and you had to take 10 questions and briefly answer them and then submit those via video. And it took around six hours.

What?

Because I didn't like the way that I presented on camera. And I had a friend who had like 500 subscribers and she was like, come on my channel just to get a little used to being on camera. So I was like, okay, sure. And she dropped. And it was just dead air. So had I not actually started talking to the audience or engaging, it would have been dead air. And that's literally how I got my start. I started my own channel right after that.

What is it specifically? Because I kind of can understand what you're saying about that. There are things that I've looked at of myself and I'm like, oh, I sound weird or... I don't seem comfortable there. Is there something specific for you? I

don't watch one of my videos.

Oh, really? Once you do it, you just

put

it out there? Mm-hmm. When did you realize that you could do this as a profession? Because to hear you say, pandemic time, you're looking for this job, you kind of stumble upon this, and then you realize, wait a minute, this is kind of cool. I like doing this enough that I'm going to pursue it. I'm going to start my own channel.

Technically, it's as a smaller content creator, you don't make a lot of money, but I always set goals for myself. And I said, well, I'm going to do this weekly. And within three months or four months, if I'm not making enough money to pay a car note or pay a bill, then I'm not going to do this weekly. Cause it's a lot of time, like putting together a show, finding an audience.

What were you talking about at that time that you think... people were resonating with what you had to say?

I've always been a person interested in like going past surface level information. And believe it or not, Kim Zolciak from the Bravo show Real Housewives was having legal trouble with her house. And I went in, I pulled all the court records, which technically a lot of people were not doing on YouTube at the time. However, they do it now. But yes, so that's really how it started. I started pulling court records. I hired a private eye for certain things.

So I want to get into a little bit of what we're covering. You know, it is the trial of the year. Some would say of the century. They haven't seen. And I actually spoke to somebody who talked about covering OJ Simpson and saying that this felt like that in terms of the energy. But When you think about the things that you have discussed or covered on your channel, why this trial? Why invest the time and the resources in covering Sean Combs?

I'll just be blunt. A lot of people that are covering it are covering it as if Cassie was somehow deserving of what she got. And I chose to amplify the voices of victims and survivors. once some of the survivors started reaching out to me, then it started feeling like a responsibility.

Like,

definitely, I don't understand the way people think. So it became a responsibility for me to break it down in a more digestible way so that you could see that there was, you can't glorify celebrity, you can't glorify these people's lives, because you feel like They have a certain amount of money or access to things. No, we have to talk about consent. We have to talk about rape culture. We have to talk about these things so that it can be a learning experience.

So what do you think about this attention influencers are getting at this time and comparing it to legacy media? I

think it's very dangerous. Although I try to have some journalistic integrity on my platform, you can sit in the courtroom with someone who has a million subscribers and they'll leave the courtroom and you'll see them outside talking and they'll just say things like, Young Miami was in the courtroom today.

You've heard that?

Yes.

Okay, we know that's not accurate.

That person does not have a million followers, but whatever amount of followers they have, they're listening because that's where they're getting their news from. So if you don't have any integrity in what you're saying, then it's just mass spread lies. I think it's very dangerous.

So isn't it up to the people? who decide who they want to follow or watch.

Absolutely.

What they believe, like you can't make, what I think about social media when I look at this landscape, if you will, people are going to go to where they think someone is giving them the real news. There are some critical consumers who will look at various platforms, right? Like I personally like looking at all of the different networks. I don't necessarily just stay in my CBS bubble. And I think the same is true for people who consume on social media.

Yeah, I guess if I'm doing short form content, I do that. But in terms of this trial, I don't. Sometimes my lives are an hour and a half. I still think it's dangerous. And we have seen a shift from legacy media to new media. And I think the pendulum swings both ways. If you recall when they were going to take away TikTok, they were saying they're taking away TikTok because TikTok is the only outlet that really allows people to speak the truth. But a lot of those truths are conspiracy theories.

You can say you have a lot of respect for CBS. It's okay. It's a shameless plug here. It's okay.

Some networks operate with integrity, but I don't, I think it's dangerous. I think that I'm trying not to say any content creators' names to give an example, but just fill in the blank with whatever your favorite content creator is that gives you the most salacious information. Everybody skews whatever way, but-

So which way do you skew? I

acknowledge that I'm giving an opinion. I acknowledge that sometimes I hold a bias. But my subscribers expect that, for example, this trial, I'm going to give them an unbiased opinion. Although I do not like Diddy as a person, I don't like anyone who puts their hands on women. If the defense has a good day, I'm going to tell my subscribers when I feel like what they did in court was effective.

So when it comes to legacy media, because I kind of want to stay there, who do you follow?

MSNBC, CNN. I also watch. I also watch Fox News. I always put CBS, ABC, and NBC. I group them together, but I consume everything. I feel like that gives me a more rounded opinion because I do follow everyone.

Do you consider yourself a journalist?

Absolutely not.

Why not?

I think that journalists go to school for that. I think that journalists... There's a lot of work that legacy media puts in. Somebody with a microphone who has an opinion, I think it's great. I'm one of those people, but I do have a certain amount of respect for legacy media.

Well, as you probably know, based on covering legacy media, things are shifting. And I think for us, it's about being in all of those different spaces as well as on broadcast television. That Hollywood Reporter article that I mentioned earlier, according to a Pew Research study, it said 86% of Americans turn to digital devices for news, with two-thirds using news websites and apps and around half getting news directly from social media channels.

Based on my response, do you see any danger in that?

I think people have always... made a decision based on their own values to follow certain newspapers before there was television, radio stations, some that have an agenda, whether it's to preserve certain things the way they are, or people that are advocating for change and evolution and revolution. So I think in some ways, this isn't that new in terms of people having choices as to what they're going to listen to or what they're going to subscribe to.

And some people might ask the location so they could pick one up off the street.

And what happens when they never get that lollipop?

They still believe it.

Yeah. I guess because I'm in this field and I would love for it to be around a lot longer. I'm actually more fascinated, and this is why... I wanted to do this segment. I'm fascinated by seeing that there's really a lot of room for a lot of different opinions and ways of telling stories. I'm also interested in how people are able to quit their jobs and have, you know, someone like a Stephanie Sue, 5 million subscribers, right? You've got 200,000 subscribers. That's not what most people have.

I do think that this is the trial of the century. It's way more than just water cooler talk. People are having in-depth conversations about consent and rape culture, and I'm going to continue to say that because I don't think that people are even aware that this trial is challenging the way that they see rape culture.

Now,

maybe you can't talk about this at work, or maybe you can't listen to my podcast at work if you don't have your earphones on, but that's just the content.

No, I mean, like I said, I'm a consumer of a lot of different news and I'm always interested to hear different perspectives. And I think anytime you have a case, whether it's a Sean Combs or the second trial recently of Harvey Weinstein, you know, or the, you know, Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein, the list goes on. I think anytime those conversations are being had, it elevates something that maybe we weren't talking about 10, 15, 20 years ago in this way.

I think the issue with Sean Combs is he's always wanted media attention. You weren't really seeing producers wanting to be in music videos like he was with Biggie. You weren't really seeing them cultivate an image so that they could be the celebrity when they were supposed to be the CEO. This is what he wanted. And that's why this trial has become so much bigger than Epstein or who's the other guy?

Harvey Weinstein?

Yes. Weinstein. This is so much bigger because Sean Combs, marginally talented, wanted to be the star. He wanted this. And now, unfortunately, because you are such a public figure and you are fighting to stay a public figure at, I think he's around 54, 55? 55. Yeah. Now, this is the end result. When you go down, the world wants to know because you wanted to be a public figure at all costs.

How do you think this ends for him?

I hope he gets some jail time. I hope he gets jail time. And if he doesn't, I will look at the culture as a whole with a different lens. If you can sit and listen to the merits of the case, and decide that this man is not guilty, then what does that say for our society?

What if he is found guilty but receives a pardon from the president?

I don't think, and this is just my personal opinion, I don't think that Trump will pardon him. I think that Trump chose to throw that out into the atmosphere because he is very good at marketing himself. And that particular week he had done several buzzworthy things and they were all overshadowed by Sean Combs trial. So why not mention Sean Combs? It automatically put him in the media.

Something that we spoke about before this podcast is this idea that you think jurors should have been sequestered. And I say that because of the times that we're in and how ubiquitous digital media, cell phones are. televisions, you could get in a cab and you didn't mean to see something that comes across the screen as a juror, but there it is in a supermarket. I mean, there's televisions and access to social media just about everywhere you turn.

For all of the reasons you just stated, there's no way that this particular jury who is dealing with, um, probably arguably one of the largest stars in the world is not going to see a newscast, a podcast. I literally thought, wouldn't it be horrible if one of the jurors turned to the public side and saw one of the YouTubers that they watch? You just never know.

How do you prepare for covering this trial? What's a typical week like for you?

Well, like I said, I got the cheat code now. Now that I know that I don't have to show up at the buttcrack of dawn to get into the either actual courtroom or the overflow, I kind of casually stroll in late. every day so that I don't have to be in the line.

And I've seen you in the courtroom a couple of times, a few times. And I've seen you in overflow because I'm in overflow occasionally, but I'm usually inside the courtroom.

I prefer the overflow. I don't really like the way that the bailiffs talk to you in the courtroom. And I like to talk to people. So that first week it was it was so great to be in the overflow room because I was having conversations with like Gloria Allred and Lisa Bloom every day. a lot of attorneys and just lay people who are interested. There's a lot of energy around this case. And I can bring those conversations back to my subscribers. So now I have an apartment, so I'm not moving.

And when you say you have an apartment, you're not the first person I've spoken to who sort of has temporarily relocated so that you can cover this every day. What's that been like?

Well, it's very expensive. It's very expensive. But it was important for me to have an apartment that was secure. I was told prior to Sean going to actual jail that that it may not be safe for me to come to New York and attend the trial. And then I got the word after that I could come after he was already in jail.

So how did you take that?

Seriously? I've had, I've had behind the scenes conversations with people who are close to Sean Combs or who were close to Sean Combs or who experienced violence at the hands of Sean Combs. And the general consensus is that he is very dangerous and he does take names.

So since making a decision again, it sounds like you're someone that does not always listen to what people tell you and it works out for you. You have come to the trial. You're taking notes. You've obviously done a number of videos on your channel about this trial. Since that time, have you received any type of threats or concern about your safety since appearing now that... Your face is being shown. It's not like you come in there wearing a mask or a hat or you're in a disguise.

No, but when you have intimate conversations with his alleged victims, you take that at face value. So no, my safety is my first concern. I could have easily stayed home and produced the same content. But for me and my subscribership, they felt like this was the best place for me to be. And to their credit, they have given me money. I've never asked anyone for any money, but they sent money through like super chats to soften the blow and some cash app as well.

Okay. So some of the people that are your loyal listeners have helped to pay for your ability to cover this trial, which we're in, we're going into week seven. But have helped to pay for the cost for you to be there. So you can say you're in the courtroom or you're in the overflow room.

Absolutely. And I appreciate it.

Is that something you imagined would happen even when you said six months in, you started to see that your subscribers had increased and people were really starting to pay attention and follow you? I

didn't. I never imagined that. I never would have thought that I would have even amassed 200,000. I didn't think when I hit 20,000 subscribers, I was surprised, but in terms of the money, I can't remember how this particularly came about, but there was a woman who was murdered at the hands of her friend's child's father. He murdered her and shot the, the the friend and another man that were there, they were helping her to pack, to flee her abuser. He comes in, he murders her.

Make it make sense.

On the stand. We have moms, we have grandmothers in the channel, and we've kind of turned into the channel that cares. I had no idea that they would want me here and would give me money to soften the blow of the very expensive apartment rental.

How much is it costing you a week to cover this trial?

I don't even want to think about it, but I can tell you that the apartment is close to eight a month. Whoa. That doesn't cover...

Is that eight bedrooms? No.

It's not even a bedroom. It's not even a bedroom.

So Where do you go from here? What happens after the verdict? When this trial is over, then what?

I can breathe again. I'm going to continue covering trials. I have this theory that... I don't know. This is not my channel, so I'm going to watch the things that I say. There are other moguls and CEOs that will be in... the same courthouse within coming months. I will definitely be covering those. I don't know that I'll come here for that. Oh,

wait, are you breaking news right now on this podcast?

I don't I'm nervous. I don't know if I can say certain things. I think that this case is very important to other very powerful, wealthy men who might have the same proclivities. And it's all coming to surface. And if this case does not work out for him, some of these people who are too big to fail might fail. I don't think he was in it alone. What

is the biggest challenge in your role? Because I know you've talked about this being a place where you can be authentic. You can be yourself. People feel like they know you, so therefore they want to know more about you, but you're also very private. So where's that line? It seems like a very fine line to balance.

It is absolutely a fine line. For my family, I'm very protective, so I don't mention them. I don't show photos of them unless they want to, especially with the kids in my family. I have a studio, and they will come over, because it's a separate building. They will come into the studio and they will want to get on camera. And I'm always so nervous because although I feel like I have one of the better subscriberships, people are crazy.

said people feel like you came from a pedigree?

Yes. Yes. People think that I went to an Ivy League school. I went to a state school. People have all of their own opinions about me based on the way that I present. And I'm like, no, like I come from a pedigree. Very small town in Louisiana. We had no money. That's not even a thing. We lived in a four-room house. So people don't understand what I'm saying. It's five rooms. It was a den, a kitchen, two bedrooms separated by a bathroom. But there were no hallways. It was just a wall.

So humble beginnings.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I think if anything... There are a lot of content creators who want to be the only one or feel like they should be in this space. But I tell people all the time, start your channel today. Whatever you have is for you. So I don't feel competition with other content creators. And I actually shout them out. Like, why not check out their content?

So that's the advice that you have for anybody that's considering starting a channel because I was, I wanted to know from your opinion, is it a situation where you feel like this is not for everyone? Because it also sounds like it takes a certain level of discipline to do this every week, to get on your feed for an hour, to want to reach out to the resources, I guess, again, depending on the type of channel that you want to do, but

you're

reading transcripts to people, you're reading documentation and you're Allowing people to make sense of it on their own based on what was said. And some of it's like, you know, you can't make this up. This happened. And then this happened. So is this something that you identify certain people as? I don't know if you want to start your own channel.

I technically don't know how to answer that because to be a content creator really just takes on turning on a camera. You don't need any specific equipment. As you get more money from it, it makes sense to invest in yourself and get better equipment, but anyone can do it. I'm a person who never wanted to be in front of the camera and I just, I am. There are people who want to be in front of the camera because they like attention. There are some people who are crazy.

Do you love what you do now? I

love when it's fun. The Diddy content is dark. It can be difficult at times, especially that I have like personal issues going on, like people around me with health issues. It can be dark content, but Again, it goes back to I feel a responsibility to cover it. I feel a responsibility to have very, very difficult conversations that a lot of people don't want to have or, you know, it's taboo to talk about. So I add a little bit of levity to it.

So when was the last assignment for you that was fun?

You know, if I'm on my YouTube channel and you see Red Solo Cup, I've probably had a little Casamigos. And if I can just have an open conversation that's light and fun about different topics, great. But like Diddy topics, traditionally for me, they have been pretty dark.

So what do you do to move through that? I

have a therapist. I got a therapist maybe two years ago now. And it's been life changing.

Where do you see yourself five years from now? Do you think the content creation space is sustainable? I

absolutely think it's sustainable. However, it makes sense to diversify. So there'll probably be some television work. I have not been taking meetings for things like documentaries because I didn't feel like I was ready. But within five years, I definitely see myself doing some radio, doing some television work, and probably doing some type of actual charity.

Why is charity so important to you? Because you mentioned early on that that's something that you feel like separates you from other content creators you have no problem with. putting out stories, trying to get money or raise money for different things. What is that about?

I'm very blessed to be in this space. One thing that my mom instilled in me was charity work. I've done on a personal level, I've worked with the homeless, the elderly, and kids at the cancer center, but that one was too taxing on me. So I had to give it up. I couldn't be there weekly and see, you know, children really going through such a horrible thing. But I've been given a lot. And I feel like if you've been given a lot, you should give back as much as possible.

Nice. Even though you say five years from now, this is sustainable for you because you want to expand your brand, essentially. How Scared are you or concerned are you of the impact artificial intelligence will have on all of those plans?

I'm not very scared because I've built an audience. And my audience is there because they trust me specifically and my opinion, even when they don't agree with me. For new content creators, it... should be very scary because they can take your mannerisms, they can take your likeness and whatever application you use, whether it's TikTok or meta, or they can, sometimes they will send you things asking if AI can use your content.

I am

not a fan.

I was in Columbus, Ohio this past weekend. I ordered from my favorite place, Donato's Pizza. It was a computer. Hi, thank you for calling Donato's. What would you like? What was that again? And this was to get to the local pizza shop that was near the airport. I never talked to a human.

Imagine when we get to a space where AI sounds so authentic, you can't tell it's AI. That's the last step. If they can have your likeness with no blemishes, no signs of aging, and use all of your same quips and jokes and things like that, that's very scary. It should scare people. There is a content creator that I know who's on YouTube who was offered $10,000 to give her catalog to an AI company. She's a comedian.

What do you want people to take away from content creators, social media influencers who are covering what some of us are covering in the legacy media news space? What do you think the takeaway is?

I would just advise to consume from content creators who you trust, but also look at the news. And if you're very interested, look into the merits of the case yourself. I have so many people who call me and say, well, did this happen? And I'm like, no, Young Miami was not in the court.

How much has your subscription grown because of this trial?

Very early on, it grew about like 100,000. But in terms of the actual trial, I think maybe only like 6,000 or 7,000. Okay.

But when you first started covering it from the... When you say early on, are we talking the filing of the Cassie lawsuit, Cassie Ventura lawsuit?

Yes, I would say around maybe like 100,000.

Well, listen, we appreciate your time. We thank you for helping us make it make sense. Good luck to you as you continue to grow as a content creator. And thanks for just spending time with us to help break down sort of the behind the scenes and your thoughts about what the future looks like.

Well, thank you for having me. And thank you for what you do. I don't think that journalists get enough credit, honestly. It's a lot of work. And I just think that not enough credit is given.

Well, I appreciate that. I really do. All

right. Well, thank you so much.

And one more thing. This experience covering the trial alongside influencers and YouTubers has taught me there is room for it all. Don't get me wrong, there is an art to storytelling. I believe and was taught that clear and concise writing, beginning, a middle, and end, they're foundational. It's part of the process. That's what makes good writing. That's what makes a good story.