S1E12: Legacy

I prove you wrong. That'sh it comes to win, goes to my memory bank, it goes to my motivation bank, it comes out of the other head. Over the previous eleven episodes of this series, we've been exposed to the many different sides of the adolescent Kobe Bryant, the young Mamba. We saw his confidence, and we saw his insecurities. We saw the loyalty and love he had for his friends and family, and we saw his willingness to let people

he was close to drift out of his life. We saw his raw honesty, and we saw his ability to manipulate situations and people to his advantage to keep secrets to get what he wanted. We've got a good long look at a complex kid who became a complex man. The clip that opened this episode was, of course, from one of Kobe's interviews with Jeremy Treaty. It was from

early in his senior year at Lower Merit. Jeremy had asked him what he thought of the sportswriters and talk radio hosts who thought he shouldn't skip college, shouldn't turn pro, and probably wouldn't make it in the NBA. You asked Kobe a question like that, you're going to get another side of him. In return, you're going to get defiance. And that side of Kobe, his defiance side is one that his teammates, his coaches, the media, and plenty of

other people saw. Throughout his career with the Lakers. Kobe was not an approachable guy for most of those twenty years. He was a workaholic and often very much a loner and entity unto himself. He wasn't accepting much advice from his elders and his peers, and it took him a while to start dishing any out. This was kind of what the Mamba mentality was all about. Imagine you wake up at three, you train at four, you go four to six, come home, breakfast, relax. So so now you're

back at it again, nine to eleven. Relax, And now it's done. Your back at it again to the four. And how you're back at it again seven to nine. Look how much more training I have done by simply starting at four? All right? And so now you do that. And as the years go on, the separation that you have with your competitors, in your peers just grows larger and larger and larger and larger. But once Kobe reached the last few seasons of his career and moved into retirement,

something about him seemed to change. He wrote a best selling book, he won an oscar, He embraced his role as a girl dad, and he morphed into the wise old owl of the NBA. Players sought him out for counsel and insight, and more importantly, he was open to giving it. This was not the Kobe we knew. We're at the second anniversary of his death, and one of the factors that made it more tragic was that Kobe appeared to be moving in this new direction in his life.

There seemed to be more ahead for him. So in this bonus episode, we wanted to explore how that change might have come about and what this new Kobe was like, and we wanted to do it through the perspectives of three current NBA players, Guys who could explain what it was like to play against or with Kobe, to talk to Kobe, to interact with Kobe in those years just before his death. Guys who could express the meaning of Kobe's legacy in a way most of us never could.

We'll start out with someone familiar to basketball fans every year. Fakes put up that's God fine text on the second relating he'll still time fix a two point Yeah, so tact. Carmelo Anthony, future Hall of Famer, the ninth leading scorer in NBA history, is in his nineteenth season in the league and his first with the Lakers. I didn't interview Mellow, but two guys who have covered the NBA much longer and much better than I have, Jack McCallum and j A.

Adonde did. They talked to him for season two of another diversion podcast, the Dream Team Tapes. Mellow and Kobe were teammates for the US at the two thousand eight and two thousand twelve Summer Olympics. The other two players are teammates on Kobe's hometown team, the Philadelphia seventy six Ers.

I spoke with Seth Curry and Tobias Harris about their vantage points on Kobe, what it was like to grow up watching him, and what it was like to meet him and play against him, and more important, as Seth Curry says here, we spoke about why Kobe's presence and spirit are still felt throughout the NBA, the guys who are in the league and of guys who grew up watching I played. We grew up on him, um from their little kids to play twenty years in the league

or whatever. So that's twenty years of our start learning the game, first watching the game. And we kind of saw his whole career as a youngster, his time with the Lakers, his whole career with the Lakers, ups and downs, tragedy, triumphs the way, but became a lout of adversity. So uh, I'm saying he's just one of the greatest ever do it, and he did it his own way, So I mean that respect level was present across the league. I'm Mike Sealski and from Diversion Podcasts, This is I am cool,

I love, Why sweet? Why Steve create myself? Exac signs up and create yourself. Say nice, now, go on create yourself. You gotta line for the great minds. But we ain't lyne tell them next any time. Episode twelve, Legacy through Carmelo Anthony's first five years in the NBA, he and Kobe Bryant weren't really friends. They might text now and again, but they weren't what anyone would call close and mellow. Well, his perception of Kobe was one that was pretty common

around the league. Here he is again talking to Jack and j A like he, I mean, he don't give a damn Like he don't got no friends. He just all about basketball. He just locked in seven like that's who he was. It wasn't my perception, was his reality

like that was everybody knew that. You know, Kobe ain't trying to be cool with nobody, like you don't want no friends, like he focused on being great in basketball and training and keeping like he was he always trying to figure out a way how to get one up on somebody and try to get the age. So we knew that I knew that, but then once we got in OH eight, that was when our our relationship really

took off. When Mellow says OH eight, he's talking about the run up to the two thousand eight Summer Olympics in Beijing. The US men's basketball team at those games was known as the Redeemed Team because the US had finished sixth at the two thousand two World Championships and had struggled to take bronze at the OH four Games

in Athens. The Redeemed Team had Kobe and Mellow and Lebron James and Dwyane Wade, and the team's leadership corps wanted to make a few things clear to Kobe before they embarked on their quest to win the gold medal. He couldn't be selfish, He couldn't be a gunner. He

had the sacrifice for the good of the team. Because of the pree noting that everybody had about Kobe him coming on the team, everybody expected that him to bring what he was doing with the Lakers, and you know, everybody just thought that's what he was going to do coming on that team, and as leaders on the team that was approached before that, you know, it was sit down with cold like listen, bro, like, we don't need the Laker Kobe, Like you know what I'm saying, like

we we need we need you to be who you are. But you're playing with you know, you're playing with the best. Now you're playing the best of the best. So I think at first it took him a little while for for him to adjust to that. Once he did, though, Kobe was the best player on that Olympic team, and he didn't have to shoot all the time to do it. Ryan gets its side, kicks it out the anthonies, but

shooting wild backs off the time. He was a tone center with his work, ethic and defense, and by opening himself up to his teammate's advice and suggestions, Kobe expanded his vision for the kind of player and the kind

of person he could be. Here's mellow again, the way that he bought himself to become so comfortable with us, you know, and the players on the team, and you know, really understanding like okay, like this is a band of brothers here, Like you know, in the Lakers, he was, he was who he was, he would you know, he come in early in the morning, he come in late at night and he's working and he's doing his thing,

and he's out when people coming there. There it was you know, he never let nobody in there with us like he was. You know, he was very you know, secretive and stand office with us. Like you saw him like slowly letting his guard down, even on the buses, you know, even going to the Olympic village and going to other sporting events, like you saw the guard coming

coming down. You saw those bricks falling, and he was fully immersed in and what we was doing and being there with us, and that was something that was like Okay, he finally like okay, we got the last brick down, like the wall is down, Like it's down, y'all. This damn we did a good job. Like it was you almost felt like a sense of victory seeing him laugh the way that he was laughing and you know, talking and communicating and stories and just like you, we felt that.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Kobe won his final two NBA championships with the Lakers in two thousand nine and two thousand ten right after Beijing. And I don't think it's a coincidence that the changes we saw in Kobe began in earnest around then too. I really see the two thousand eight Olympics as a turning point in his career and in his life. The Kobe he became during the O eight Games was the Kobe he remained until the day he died. I think we gave

him another egge. We gave him another level of sharpness because he knew like how sharp we were on that team, you know, from us getting up early in the morning and training and working out and talking and can you watch the film and and you know, having fun too. But he saw the sharpness that we had on that team everybody and and what what I used to say was iron sharpness iron and he understood that. He understands that language. And he also understand something that we submit him.

We've always say, lions don't hang with nobody other than lions. Right. That's a gigantic shot, great played by Kobe Bryant. I thought if you could controllers another three pubby Big Plubbly buy from Balti the fil Paul flows in ahead, Koby bin SoRs just about supper Fritish. Hey, this is Mike Sealsky, host and writer of I Am Kobe, This podcast project came out of my work on a related book called

The Rise Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit of Immortality. If you want to explore other parts of Kobe's story, check out The Rise. It's not just a book version of the podcast. I dive deeper into some of the topics covered in this series, and even some that we don't cover at all. Kobe's upbringing, his family, his identity, his effect on his friends and teammates, his journey into the n b A, and his earliest days with the Lakers. The Rise Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit of Immortality is

out now. Just head over to the Rise of Kobe book dot com and you can buy it from any of your favorite retailers. That's The Rise of Kobe book dot Com. Thanks. So, how did the characteristics of this new Kobe manifest themselves? What was he like and how is he different? In those latter years of his career and during his retirement. We heard from Carmelo about how and why Kobe changed, but he had known Kobe for

a long time. I wanted to talk to a couple of players who didn't meet Kobe until much later, who grew up idolizing him. Seth Curry and Tobias Harris of the Sixers fit that description, and each had an interesting or unique connection to Kobe. Seth is the son of longtime NBA sharpshooter Del Curry and of course the younger brother of superstar Steph Curry. Dell played against Kobe, Steph played against Kobe, and Seth played against Kobe. Here's Seth. Did you see the amount of half for Kobe? Long

devity and what he means? What he means to the game. Remember growing up as a kid, um my dad playing against him back is one of my favorite players back then, the number eight. I just remember one cool let my dad played at one time. He came back in the d of the night from l a Um and he brought me signs during the end his games shot from that game, so I still have him to this day,

which is pretty cool. Just before the two thousand fifteen sixteen season, Kobe's last in the NBA, Seth was playing for the Sacramento Kings, who held a couple of preseason games in Las Vegas. One night, while he was there, Seth and a few of his teammates went out to eat.

A familiar face was already in the restaurant and Kobe in the bag, and then it was him in security guard um in the back when he walked out and came to came to State with Uther, and he ended up sitting sitting with us like hours and shopping up with us, talking and telling us about me. We're asking a question, tell us about what he was doing that summer that season, just prepared for his last season, everything he had to go through to get ready for a game. Uh,

he was just telling some crazy stories. So I'm really the only chance to having to having extended interactional with Kobe, talking to gain with him, just learning, picking his brain, seeing how he how he taked. And it was kind of cool because it was going into his last year.

You know, he kind of turned the corner as far as his his competitivenessues only to a point where he will to get away some secrets and some tips to the other guys that you know, if that was five and earlier than that, he wouldn't have told us nearly any anything about what he's doing to get ready to play.

So still a pretty cool experience there. It is if Seth had been playing in the NBA before two, before Kobe went through his Olympic experience, would Kobe have approached that table and taken the time to talk with Seth and his teammates. I'm not sure that said, I don't think Kobe ever lost the essence of who he was, and Seth didn't think that either. I asked him what he thought Kobe's legacy was. First of what was this

his competitiveness? I mean drive, his competitiveness to be great. Um, he sacrifice a lot in his personal life friends, uh, friendship, even he says, I his his as with his family just to be to be the best of his craft and to be the um best player could possibly be. So you gotta respect that. Doing with one franchise for

twenty years. Um, just when his name is just tie right in with the Laker, with the Laker organization like a culture, the whole city of l A. I think that's that competitiveness and instead the Laker tradition is is his legacy. For Tobias Harris, Kobe's legacy was tangible well after he had retired. Harris was in his seventh NBA season and with his third NBA team, the Detroit Pistons when they traded him to the Los Angeles Clippers in January.

The Clippers and the Lakers share the same home arena. It was called Staples Center, then it's called Crypto dot Com Arena now whatever its name. To Tobias, it was Kobe's house. Yeah, just because, like you know, it was always a feeling of about woman arenas was with the Clippments, but just just knowing that it's there's a port of Mark on all until his career achievements. You know, just even when we were playing the Lakers, excitement seeing out

your games on TV. It was a real excitement for the buzz of l A. But it's because of Kobe and when he implemented you know, obviously Kobe and shocked there doing that they had and then after that, but yeah, being out there is it were like, you know, maybe and playing in l A and playing in l A. Yeah, obviously on the two hundred team, but just that that buzz and basketball I think is was created and kind

of just heightened through Colby's achievements out there. Tobias is in his fourth season with the six person and I talked with him not long after he was involved in an incident that made me think of Kobe. It happened during a game against the Houston Rockets in Philadelphia. Tobias has been having a bit of a down season, and after he missed an easy shot and Philly fans started booing it, he raised his arms in defiance as if

to say, bring it on. Then he hit a shot later in the game, and as he ran back down court, he said, don't fucking boom. He got a fair amount of criticism and pushed back for that, which shouldn't be surprising. Philly fans can be tough, but they're also pretty sensitive. Anyway, since the incident had just happened, I asked him if he'd given any thought to how Kobe would have reacted in that situation. He wasn't at eve that. He was a just on his his work, ethic and and and

pushing through. So you know, I'll take all those things into consideration, of course, and mean, how about it just continue to work. And you know, I think he was one of the best playing to his career ups and downs, and you know, nothing when he faced him on the floor, So I think he definitely did a great job of that. In late August two thousand nineteen, Kobe held a minicamp for current NBA players. It was invite only and it focused almost entirely on offense. Kobe wanted to impart his

knowledge to the next generation of scores. He held the camp at his Mamba Academy in Thousand Oaks, California. It's become a legendary event in recent NBA history. Tobias Harris was one of the players Kobe invited. Again, I'm not sure this is something Kobe would have even can sit here doing earlier in his life. Yet it stands out now as one of the reasons that he became such a respected figure during his retirement. It's not just that Kobe decided to try to be a mentor, it's that

players wanted him to be a mentor. Why What was it about him that drew these younger guys to him. Here's what Tobias told me. You know, I think, honestly, this is the game of basketball. I think, you know, when I was out there in l A and there's a group of myself and I think it was like twenty some guys. But you can see how much he loves basketball and how much um basketball was was a part of him. And really you can see he was a very good teacher, and I think that was the

thing that he probably knew his whole career. But he retired. I think he had like a realization, I've got such a good teacher at teaching people things that I should do it more. And I remember where we were at to camp that was all like an offense camp, and he was shown some guys some defense because I joke a like, man, that's what That's what I want to build this student. Next year of defense, next year, God, think about it. That was the summer of two thousand nineteen.

There was no next year. Five months later, Kobe was gone. We are two years removed now from his death, and in so many ways, it is still surreal. In so many ways, the shock still lingers. In so many ways, it feels like that tragedy didn't really happen. We've done our best in this series to give you a fresh look at Kobe, a chance to see him and examine him and judge him and remember him from a different perspective,

from several different perspectives. Always, though, there was one theme at the core of this podcast, the drive that made Kobe great. Everything was done to try to learn how to become a better basketball player. Everything, everything, And so when you have that point of view, then literally the world becomes your library to help you to become better at your craft. The players that had that passion but weren't willing to commit their entire lives to doing that, right,

it's a choice. Right, you have other things, You have a family, you have all these other things that you have to do. The game can't really be your number one priority. And so I was just looking at that like, man, I'm this is gonna be fun. You saw a lot of the young Mamba. You saw some of Kobe and his crime. In this episode. You saw how Kobe mature, how even he saw himself in a different way. You might admire him, you might despise him, but it will

be impossible to forget it. And we appreciate you joining us as we told this story. I Am Kobe is a production of the Version Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. This season is written and hosted by me Mike Sealskin. It's produced by Jacob Bronstein and directed by Mark Francis. Story editing by Jacob Bronstein, with editorial direction from Scott Waxen. Editing, mixing and sound design by Mark Francis. Stephen Thompkins is our production assistant. Our theme music is

Create Yourself by Grover Brown featuring Justin Starling. Find Create Yourself wherever you stream music. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for fre Soans Sinking. Executive producers are Mark Francis and Scott Waxman. Join the conversation about I Am Kobe on social media on Twitter and Instagram. It's at diversion Pods thanks to Orin Rosenbaum, Susan Cannavan and Jeremy Treatment the eyebries before the son. They don't understand when I say the blind is fun. Never clack you out even where

my work is done. If they're trying to black me, I might heart someone throw the blood sweat and says we part Sufi, stay tending in. Let it keep the harus in. If they don't believe in themselves, gab vert defend that at Sampa says, so on't selling, don't ask my am. This the reason why I'm I'm wearing so damn different the negatives. I can listen see me at the tap you and listen where I'm a vote to play like cash is see, I pay my dudes because taxes gotta work. I think and grind ahead of his time.

So I'm saying that they made you. Don't tell them you create yourself the best you finn watch us by that time. You gotta snake clock, then break clock. Break we create ourselves. Watch me, watch me to create myself. Exact client signs up and create yourself. They nice and ain't no hard create yourself. You gotta learn from the great minds that we ain't lying. Tell them next game time. This talent wasn't given, it was made the future. Any time I could change better, tell them that I made

it back home. As I walked through the hearts of the fame, I came from the valley of the Shadow with death waiting for us. Some spoons don't hold your breath, sat Town, sat train. But I did it with less. I know one that to be. So there's nothing in the guests, Yeah, there's nothing to guess. It's our times. Tell them we up next. We don't got any regrests. I did it with my soon hands, and we never forgets my an. This the reason why my work so damn different to the negatives. I can't listen see me

at the time. You can't listen for where, rebuild, reach shape, give me your eye. You got to risk take do it now. When I'm saying why braves, I'm saying that they man. You don't tell them you create yourself on the bench, you finn or watch us by it's by that time. You gotta snake clock, then break clock, break we create ourselves. Watch me clach watch then create myself. Shack Clin signs up and create yourself. They're nice and ain't go on create yourself. Gotta learn from the great minds. No,

we ain't lying. Tell them next anytime. Diversion podcasts