You really got pucked in the head (S3 E15 "Face-Off")

gonna spring it on you. Oh my god. Okay, uh yeah, I don't know this This episode was what can I say? How can I in caps? Like, just Daniel, you want to do the what do you do? The recap? Recap? And then we'll get it. We'll dive into it. Yeah, let's do it. Season three, episode fifteen, Face Off Air date February two thousand three. Grandma Gilmore Okaytrix is in town for a visit and it has Emily oh riled up. But then the tables have turned as Emily sees something

she shouldn't have. Rory gets annoyed by Justice's reluctance to call and decides to go to Stars Hollow Hockey game with Lane and her fake boyfriend, but then ses Dean with somebody new and speaking of Lane, her and Dave have a whole new dating plan set in place. Directed by Kenny Ortega. Not typical Kenny Ortega. Yeah, there's no dancing or singing in this episode. Wait, I can't get a read of Scott loved it or hated it? Yeah. Um, you know, I don't know that that episode really hit

my demo. Uh, I think it hits it. I think I think it hits a much younger demo obviously, because we spent so much time. Look, when you take the drummer, when you take the lead singer and the drummer away and separate them and they're in different bands and they're playing with different players, you know, you kind of lose the threat a little bit. I you know, it just proved to me how important the mother daughter relationship is.

And when you separate these two this much in an episode and leave them with other players, um, you know, it's entertaining, but it's just it's just it kind of felt like it went off the spine of what Gilmore Girls is and it went into kid world and it really really delved in there because now we have Dean,

the Dean situation, the jet situation. You know, it reflects what the mother has been going through, and it's like, you know, the apple not falling too far from the tree with their choices and all those lessons learned and

or are not learned yet. Uh uh. And then of course you introduced the most important character in the history of television and Trixie, and I just didn't get the satisfaction I was looking forward in that encounter, uh and that resolution, And I just thought, listen, do you want to go chronologically? Yeah, bitch for half an hour? No,

I love. I love listening to you, bitch. It wasn't my favorite, but I liked it and I got some really good laugh Let me ask you us about about Trixie, because I think I have a theory, okay, because I love Mary and Roth. So she is sort is very unlikable, right and a little bit over the top, but I love what happens as a result of her her. So because of her, I love what was happening with lore Lye and Emily, and because of her we got that hysterical scene at the end with Richard and lore Lye.

So is there any chance I just think that that whole thing started started to cut you off for me, that for me, that was built on a house of cards. Uh, and it just didn't hold up for me. I think the structure I knew, I knew what they were going for and trying to build, but it was such a weak foundation to begin with that it just didn't it just it just fell apart from me. Uh. And I didn't take the journey that they were trying to take

us on. And I actually screamed out at Emily, like, you do not owe that, you know what an apology? Stop apologizing? Don't apologize? Interesting And I can debate that.

I thought that there was a chance for some real hard, hard edged drama here, like even melodrama, which I was like dying for because I wasn't getting it from and you know, I wanted a high quality melodrama instead of what I considered to be low quality melodrama from the kids, And like can can can can can the adults in the room please just like let's go, okay, come on, hit the accelerator here and let Emily have her runway

and let her just go off on that woman. Fair criticism because I see what you're saying, I liked it and I had some really good laughs. Daniel Tar, you gotta tell us what you think, because I see what you're saying. With Scott, you wanted real emotion where it was very campy. Yes, I see what you're saying, and I wanted it to be. I mean, listen, all of this stuff, the fake boyfriend, that that Mrs Kim, all

that stuff. I mean, it's not it's it's really is straining credulity here, and that we're supposed to buy into this world, right, and that Lane is in this bizarre situation. Everybody's in this and like now we're tolerating Jess again, and then you know Taylor with the wacky hockey stuff and his brother. I just thought it was kind of clumsily too much of that, Whereas typically in an episode we get one or two of those things and then

they're very funny. In this one, it was like, because you've got Taylor, you've got the fake boyfriend, you've got Tricks who is campy. You've got a little of Kirk being the like a sports announcer and doesn't know the sport. So it's almost I see what you're saying. To it's like too much. It was there was no it wasn't grounded. It was all comedy or attend to comedy, right, like, let's go for these. Hey, look we're again, We're in another wacky situation, ha ha ha. But I just didn't

think the execution was there. I didn't think the right was there. I didn't think and I'm not going to go along on the tricksy ride if Emily feels like she has to apologize. I thought people were out of character. Okay, fair, okay, So this okay, it's very exciting. It's very exciting. We've got so much to debate. So first, Danielle and Tara give us your overall impressions. Then I will drop the bomb of the new huh something that we're going to do every episode, so because I think it's going to

be perfect for this episode. So first, y'all's overview, what did you think with a title like face Off? I was expecting some kind of fist throwing, you know, like some kind of actual fight. So I was a little let down from there. I was just waiting for the dan Jest scene where they're going to just like pummel each other. I'm just waiting for it didn't happen. It's okay, I'm over it. But outside of that, I did like that episode. I thought it was fun. I thought it

was you and and interesting. But I do hear what you're saying, Scott, with every character being outside of themselves, You're so right, Like every single character was different than who they usually are. You know, I thought it weakened everybody. The only time. I mean I laughed out loud a couple of times, you know, I thought it was hysterically funny. When Laurel, I said, that's when she was coming in. They made asked her to come and talk to the

old ladies. She said, that's a deep philosophical question. Then she starts backing up. Yeah, that was like for me, that was the moment of the whole thing. I mean, I did have some belly laughs like la But the part I will agree with is there was very little drama in the drama in this episode. That was like really heartfelt a little bit with Rory. Okay, so Tara, you tell us your thought and then I'm just so

excited for my bomb, my bomb to draw. I mean kind of the same as Danielle, Like I really enjoyed it. I think also, just having seen the series so many times, I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot about this one, and then it was like entertained by it. But when you put it that way, everyone was a little out of character. For me, when I was watching it last night, I was like, this is really entertaining. I forgot about like this is where we see Lindsay and all that stuff, um,

and I forgot the grant and her boyfriend. I would say I melted with Adam Brady. We'll get to it later, but I just but I but he even he was out of right, even because he wasn't cool and we're so used to him being cool. I did it that he went running over there, you know that when the camera on that close up of him after Lane leaves with Young Chew on the fake day, and then they cut to day for Dolski and he's like, he looks like, well,

what's going on? Right? Looks bummed? Right, It's like, come on, don't destroy his character. And another and another beef I have is what the heck is Jess doing behind the counter? Having seen with Rory, he was that that was a big moment for the show because he was working behind the counter exactly. Wait why because he was talking to Jess,

I felt I started feeling a little territorial. And I know it sounds ridiculous, but to do a scene, to choose to do a scene with him behind the counter was like, I don't know that I noticed that, but he's been behind the counter before. There before, he's done the register before, when you're upstairs are gone food. Yeah, everything has been was a little off for me in that episode. I don't going to disagree with you. You know that wasn't off. Marion Ross's name was spelled. I

noticed that too. Okay, it's just just to me, it's like, how can anybody, even if they're elderly, be that unconscious to how obnoxious and abusive they're being to uh to Emily. I mean, it's it's very out of the top. And that scene in the kitchen with Laura La, I'm telling her about the job, the jogger kiss. You know, she goes, now I have my moment, and then Laura to convince her not to do it. You know, I just what is what what are you go doing? Get out of

her way, Let the scene happen. Let it an't. Let it flyde man. I mean she earned this over three and a half two and a half years of taking crap off that one in the audience wants. I mean, I'm the audior like forty years. She's been taking crap from that one for four years. Part that doesn't track for me with tricks is tricks is so you know, she's she's a fancy lady who has perfect manners and

so proper. So even if she hates Emily, somebody like that would never do it in front of their friends because it would be so rude that they would judge that, do you know what I mean? That would be only do when it's just the family. So that was the part that I thought, Oh, she wouldn't, you know, like a mean old bitch is so perfect at a party, do you know what I mean. So that was a part that I was like, she's not going to do that with those you know Granny's they're okay funeral So

I know, I know, why were they like that? They were No, they were no Golden girls idea And I don't have a name for it yet. We have to come up with a name. But I think this is new, everybody, This is new, keeping it fresh. Okay, So each week before we start kind of going through it chronologically, I want to do a quick high low or like what made the biggest impression on you and what was your bone to pick? Because last episode when we did the

bone to pick, people really seem to like that. They wrote all about it with their if they agreed or disagreed with our bones to pick. So I feel like we need to do are each of us well no, because I didn't give my thing that really landed on me, which was what was going on at the end with Rory. I a phone call. No, when she comes home, so Jess is all awesome, picks her up, No, Jess Blewett, No, Jess looking awesome. I had that was a hail marriage. Yes, that was That was a total hair hail Mary, and

she didn't buy into it. She was still hurt and she was still hurting because Dean was gone. Now okay, so that is okay in that moment, like I had a good one. I let it go for this loser and that could look how he's treating Okay, that's sensitive. She's a sensitive young girl that she was sort of MOPy about Dean. But I had a weird moment where I'm like, did the have sex? And he is the same back, I just said that and you said it before me. I agree with you. I was like, did

they have sex? And then she's so belted it kind of because he's not treating her right. Yeah? Was it taking you back to the episode? I think it was the last episode silent well, and then she told Loralae like I'm gonna do it and then she was all weird with loral and scurried off. So I'm I was like having this weird moment, although I do agree with Scott that I do think she's bummed about Dean. Yeah, Oh that's so weird. I mean I kind of had to slow claud Dean in this episode, like like just

gonna you know happy. Yeah, Dean was awesome in this episode because he's got the new girlfriend. He's totally confident in it, but still was so sweet and cool to Rory and his friend. It was like this guy and he looked good in hockey. Okay, alright, Dean, I see you, right? So does anyone else have something that they either that really stood out to them that we'll discuss further when we get to it or like a major bone to pick.

I do have something that landed on me, like it talked abousked me to to think, um, but it's at the very end we want to go yeah, because this is going to get exact. People are gonna get so excited with my bone to pick led to my aha moment. So the bone to pick was the Emily and Trick stuff. I it just I felt a little it felt overplayed to me and the same old stick over and over and over again. But the very very end landed on

me when Emily was like, I'm lonely too. Did everything you know didn't ever come across to your did you ever think that maybe I'm feeling the same way that I'm lonely and that you hurt me? And and it was just a very vulnerable moment for her character, which I still think it's stuck true to who she is as a character, Emily. But it just made me like, oh man, she's like giving her truth in that moment

and that it really like that scene landed on me. Yeah, you know what the scene that bothered me the most. You want to you want to know my largest phone of the bone yard, because this was a bone yard for me. But but, but the biggest bone is Laura La and Richard sitting on the couch after the sort of the reconciliation speech from Emily with the tricks which I didn't buy, and now she's going downstairs to get

to tea before she arrives. Before she comes downstairs, Richard starts laughing, and the whole whole thing, well, um, you know the jokes. So I'm gonna I have a daddy now, without one mention that, without one mention of how his

wife has been humiliated, how she's been feeling. I mean, he just looked, Oh she no, I thought, Richard said a break, because Graham's so tough, but so gently, so deferentially, and Emily so deferential to this woman and moralize, so deferential to her father, and and and him being so completely oblivious to the to the harm this is causing his own wife. Again, he just comes off to me like some spoiled, unconscious little boy who's so enamored of

his Mommy. Mommy is okay, and she can do you think she wants and run rough shot over my wife forty years And he sits there and laughs about a moment with the kiss with the jogging suit instead of, you know, tapping into what his wife is going. Well, this has been your one bone to pick with, Richard. I think the whole series you have never liked that he is, so I don't like a MoMA's boy. I can't stay. Yeah, he's very deferential to Graham. It's just

I'm sorry. It's a very fair criticism, and I'm sitting here listen. I understand that these scenes are are are well written, they're beautifully acted, they're funny, and I think a lot of people in the onance love these scenes. I get that I can't enjoy them. I don't enjoy them at all. You know what I enjoy. I enjoy the possibility that Emily is finally going to take action. I wanted her to dump that over her head and

she didn't, and I was like, gosh, darn it. She's singing songs and then she gets you know, they didn't give her enough sort of revenge, right, And I understand it's an elderly woman. You can't go off on an elderly woman. She's like the trich, she's like the Gilmore matriarch, and she's protecting Rory, and maybe Rory is going to inherit something or whatever. So she's got to be very careful. But I think it was justified and was the last

time I'll said. I think she was just a fight and having a little you know, it's a little bigger sort of freak out on Graham than she had imagined money a little bit, because it's would be one thing if these guys were all like broke his jokes and Graham was the was the purse strings and had all the money, but like Richard has made his own money, So that is like they they're not beholden to Graham to take you know, not that you should be that way,

but I think some people are like you know, whatever the word is, if if they can't afford their bills, if this person isn't funding them. But that's not the Gilmore and Laurel I sitting there witnessing this. She came in and met the women and and and Graham did it. And you know, she humiliated Emily in front of her own daughter, in front of her own friend. And what does what does Emily too? And Laurel I doesn't chirp at her and all say, hey, Graham, you know, why

don't you take it down and not. I mean, I don't like the worst thing ever to say that Graham kissed a dude, do you know what I mean? Like it seems like there's so many it was almost like juicy and hate it. The old ladies could have had a real good time talking about it, but instead it was this horrific thing. Emily is so utterly um filled with amma when it comes to anybody crossing her, her

own daughter, anybody else. You. I mean, some of the greatest speeches and comebacks have come out of Emily's mouth. That's very true. Yet she cannot muster uh a couple of paragraphs of like back the hell off and don't talk to me that way in front of her own daughter to Graham. And she's the one that is so capable of doing that. She's proved that throughout the show. Laura, I can do it. Rory's learning to do it. It is just though, like I can't imagine saying that to

my mother in law. You know, there is no I can't. I mean, we talked about that when she's also insane too, So I don't have like that like you know, correlation to the scenario. But when it comes to your mother in law at least like being you know, married to my husband. That's my mother in law. There is a level of respect that you have to you have to deal with and as Yeah, I don't know. That's the only thing I said. That theory about the mother in

law that she just can't cross the mother in law. Yeah, but that doesn't give the mother in law the right to to call call an idiot every word coming out of her mouth. I mean it's not only just calling her. She hates Emily everything. There is no quarter given to em at all. Bottom line, it is Richard's place to step up and right. But he's saying done. It is a great bone. Yeah, So here's here's the here's the big this is what I'm getting at. Okay, no wonder, Laurel,

I got the hell out of there. Yeah, that's a that's a that's a crazy house. Right. Yeah, And can you imagine when it was like back then, when everybody had more energy, right, when Graham was younger, when oh my goodness, Graham is nuts. I mean, I know, Okay, in a minute, we're going to go back to the beginning of the episode. But mental and bringing right, Grant's bringing her own mattress in and you know, right, Graham is nuts. So now she's in stars Hollow, which is

like a breath of fresh air. Thank god, I'm away from these nuts, nut jobs who think they're I You thought my mother and dad were bad. You should see my grandmother. Oh my god, it's impossible. It's like she walked out of the sevres. It's like, what is happening with the people? So she got the hell out and and gosh, Darnett. I don't blame her. Stay away, don't go back. It's like, get a second job to pay for jolt yourself. Do not take this money anymore from

these crazy people. Let's go back to the beginning of the episode. He's talking about people with their heads so far up there. It's unbelievable. She had to get out, right, So now we will go through it. So we start in with Dozy talking to Laurela about his upcoming family reunion, which I did find funny, all the family reunion stuff. Yeah, yeah, Taylor, I mean Taylor being Taylor all the time. He's always Taylor. Well, don't keep me waiting because I have many things to

do today. His brother was so good, his brother. I have a theory that Luke and Taylor's brother would be p f F Taylor with this guy. Yeah, but it wouldn't have been. I think they missed a big opportunity with Taylor's brother. I thought it was really cliche and such an obvious choice to make him that way. I wanted Taylor's brother to be exactly like Taylor. It would have been. And what you're saying, give give him give

him a brother that is exactly like him. That would be funny, right, and see which one is more like per nikety, you know what I mean, and more detailed and more an. I mean, it just would have been like you think you think I'm bad, Laura, Like what do you meet my brother there? You know what I mean? And then there's just like it's like give me a tailor on steroids, you know, Yeah, that actually would have been. Instead we get sort of the average normal guy that's

just like Taylor. You're nuts. See everybody in two hours have a cocktail. Yeah, just because the show calls for it. The show allows you that sort of It's detached from reality enough where you could you could get a tailor on steroids. Very funny. So then we moved from that scene, which I thought was very funny. This was in the diner, so we kind of jumped around with the family reunion stuff. But we go to Friday night dinner and this is where Rory and Lori la are just eating so fast

and we're kind of like, what are they doing? Then we find out they both have plans and dates, and I just thought the funniest part is like Emily's like, well, we'll just sit here until you tell me what's going on. Also, when they're at the table, the two of them by themselves, they're like, you're being obvious, like we're supposed to eat fast, but like your way too obvious. Okay again again completely insulting to Emily, hurt her feelings. That's her granddaughter wanting out.

I don't want to be with you, I don't want to be here. I want to get the hell out. So I didn't take it. I found that behavior offensive. I see. I thought it was more amusing because it's Friday night and these guys have dates. And I actually think if they would have told Emily, she would have been like cool. You know, I've never felt I start feeling sorry for Emily. I mean, she's just getting dumped on granddaughter and gh I mean, she's getting from all sides.

Nobody wants anything to do with her. And then they have that pathetic scene where she goes to the end and oh, Grandma, let me. She kicked me out of the house. You right, what is happening here? It wasn't like, Yeah, Graham really makes Emily not Emily like the Emily we know and love to hate is completely lost with Graham because she just puts her into a whole diather and

she can't function. And I get that there are people that you meet in your life that sort of turn you into something that you're not um but this is this is a television show. We please, So I thought it was interesting as we we have a mention of Alex because okay, so people on Instagram were mad at me because I can't remember about how it ends with Alex, but sometimes I can't remember everything. So we have a mention of Alex that she's going out with Alex, but

there's no Alex. So I think Scott, you were right. And I can't remember if Billy mentioned it that he probably did get another job. Yeah, you know that Lauren wanted more of them, right, right? Like they probably did want him, and he probably he was like doing another show because it's not like they're still talking about him. So okay. So and then we sort of get the inkling of Jess not calling, which I thought was like I thought it was out of character for him to

not call her. Really, yeah, only because like he's been so on her with like you know, deans around this and that. Like I feel like he's been really like tell me everything, what are you doing? And so if he wants communication, then like why isn't he just giving her a call when he gets off of work? Double right? It was a little weird, absolutely right. You know, they get these kids. Look, I remember being young and falling in love and there was you want to be with

that person. I mean when it's new and it's fresh and you're establishing your relationship, Yeah, you don't. You don't not call somebody. Well, and Jess is an asshole. Sorry, apparently he is. Apparently he used to be. He was such a bad boy. You know, bad boy is different than than ass But what is he He's not calling

her because he has some deep seated psychological problems. He's just not thinking about it or they've messed up the character because the character we know would have called so I was thinking about this, he was dating what's your doozy? What was that girl at the Shane Shane. He was so righteous that he wasn't even gonna like kiss Rory or dave Rory until he went and did the right thing, which was to break up with Shane. Yes, is a

good guy. He's kind of a bad boy, but like you know, or the town like hoodlum as they once said. But like he would have checked in with Rory, he wouldn't. He would have been like, I'm working Lane, because like,

who cares? You know, I expected I expected this, this behavior to be explained at the end of the episode to her in that scene, like you know something, you know, I had a bad phone call with my mom, My mom went in to the hospital, my you know, I'm there had to be something to throw him off because he was so different. He was like a completely different person, acting like he's got these deep seated psychological problems or some secret that he's not revealing, or some family mess

that's happening that's affecting him. But we're not getting any explanation for this other than Okay, now he's a creep again. That's right, Like it's giving us sort of this reason to kind of oh Dean. It's almost like the writers knew they wanted Rory to be conflicted, to be you know, a little bit sad that Dean's got Lindsay. But like then the way they got us to it is a little off because Jess isn't a jerk. He is now

he's back to being a jerk. Yeah, he ignored. He ignored his girlfriend over the entire weekend until his girlfriend's mother had to kind of reprimand him. You think that, Scott, what did you think of that? It just I'm sorry, this episode just did not get off the ground. It didn't get off the ground at all. It stayed on the runway and I was waiting for it to fly, and it just none of it. It made no There was no logic to it, like cohesion is that the word?

There was no emotional logic to it. I couldn't, you know, I didn't understand why these people were acting this way. And these are characters that I love and I care about and who who I think are brilliant characters. But they did were not behaving like themselves. In this episode, and I didn't get a really good explanation as to why, Yeah, what did everybody think about laur A Lie twice sort of having words with Jess, kind of giving him advice.

It felt like a big overstep, Like I don't know a lot of moms that are going to be like, I agree is the best and you should be calling her And she likes to go to concerts like that would turn a kid off. And if her daughter found her daughter before I found out she did that, she'd probably mad her mom. I was about to say, if I find out my mom did that with someone I was dating, I'd be mortified. Yeah, because I think between us, I will get Laura Lie mom points though, for making

Rory go to the hockey game. You're not going to stay at home. You're not gonna wait by the phone and hope this guy calls you. You get your butt out and you go to the hockey game and have fun. That felt very Laura lish. Yeah, that felt like something Laurea l I would do. The thing that was interesting about Jesse's we all know she doesn't love Jess, so why is she like getting up in his but helping him? It's like because she doesn't her daughter to be hurt.

It's like it's like he reverted back to when we first met him and he started interacting with Flora. Wasn't good. Reverted He's reverted back to this kid again. He's not being the Jess we know with Rory, because even though Jess always had conflict, let's say with lower Lea or even Luke, he never hurt Rory. Like, I can't think of one time other than when we I think it was her fault that he wanted her and he started dating Shane only because she was still with Dean and

she was hurt by that. But she but he made sense like you're dating teen again. He was so true. So I just I don't see him being He's acting like he has psychological problems. He's acting like he's bipolar. He's acting like he's got drug problems. He's acting in ways that a mother would not want him anywhere near her daughter. Yeah, I mean, I like this episode, but as we're talking about it, it's like it does sort of have its flaws. It's kind of funny and light

for the parts that were that. But you're right, like I am sort of buffuddled by Jess. And then I like where Laurelie says, don't compare these two, but why is Rory do comparing them? She picked Jess, Well, it's inevitable. They're in a small town and Dean's interface all the time by happenstance, and you know, he's being a great guy, and he's being a great friend, and Jess as being you know, he's reverting back to some old behavior which

is not fun to watch, and it's hurting that girl. Yeah, and it's uh, you know, I don't look, Jess has displayed and proven that he is smarter. Then he's trying to get away with Now, Okay, he understands how she feels, he understands his effect on her, he understands all this.

So ignoring her over a weekend is it's either it's either intentional or he's had some kind of an episode um that maybe we'll find out about the next But I think the writers just to me, this is where it takes you out of it being real, is that they wanted this sort of angsty nous over Dean or maybe the missing Dean, and this was the only way they could get us there, because it Jess is being Jess, the jests that we've that we're falling for and loving,

he's not going to do this, which means she's not going to be jealous of Lindsay. Right. The reason she sort of was a little jealous of Lindsay was because Jess wasn't treating her great, Like even when Dean's like, how's Jess and She's like great, but it's b s. Yeah,

I was gonna say. I think it kind of sets up like this happened the episode where we see Lindsay and like we're like okay, and you know, it was kind of like playing We're now a little bit more on like Dean side, like okay, it looks like he's moving on maybe, and then Jess's kind of like losing interest on the other side or being a jerk. The thing I can't remember is when I saw it the

first time. Did I see it coming with Lindsay, like you know they meet, yeah again, you know there obviously we're friends at high school before she went to Chilton, And remember She's like, well that was weird, right, and Lane's like, yeah, that was weird. Did you think Lane knew? How did Lane not know that he's dating that he was dating Lindsay because as she goes to school with them, and like it's a small town, Lane would have known. And I even thought the way Lane was in that

scene that she knew. Watch it again. It was almost like she was hiding something from Rory. But then in the next scene she says, I didn't know. It's you think she's also just been like super distracted with the band, because like sometimes when you're distracted with your own thing, like in the band. And no, he's too small in

the town school. Are you kidding me? If at my school two people were dating or even their best friend's ex boyfriend and you break up and then he's dating a new girl at school that they were clearly friends with, we would all know. So I'm like, yeah, that's a

bone to pick for me. You know. It felt like the studio gave some notes to this production and said, listen, let's let's do sort of a kid centric episode because we need to sort of uh give a nod to that demo because that's you know, the c W was a young network. It wasn't you know, it doesn't skew older. It's it's under thirty five, right, it's older, but yeah, you're right. Yeah, it was really it was really geared toward teens, and that's the audiences they wanted to get,

so maybe that had something to do. Almost feels like the writers maybe put the writers out of their element and put the writers out of their strengths. Scott, You're going to have to answer this because this is just a weird theory. But I'm not like I do. I'm

not an actor or a director. It's almost like they had Kenny Ortega scheduled right, and then the writers wrote this episode that isn't right for Kenny Ortega because think about the Kenny Ortega Thanksgiving the dance, um, you know, twenty four Dance with thon this So it was almost like Kenny was trying to do his Kenny thing, but that the right wasn't totally right for it. Um. It feels sort of like, wait, I get what you're saying. Yeah, I think what happens is if you don't okay, Uh.

I do think it was right for Kenny because he dealt with all those kids and that's his sweet spot. He does that well, he does big crowds well, he does that. He did the hockey games. Everything was great. Um, I don't think it was a Kenny Ortega issue. I think it was I really think it was the studio wanting to appeal to the demo more more minutes per episode. It's like, we're doing the the adult thing too much.

Let's do the kid. Let's do the kid thing more. Okay, maybe maybe ratings weren't what they I mean, ratings were always good for the show, but maybe they were trending down a little bit because things were getting a little too adult, de dramatic. Let's do kid dramatic. These are the kind of broad notes. Here's my question. Have you ever done an episode of the show doesn't have to

be gil with girls? Where there was like it started with a director right, and then something happened or the director wasn't right, and they got rid of him and it was the same script but a different director and the episode everything changed, like Okay. The best example I can give is like when they did Back to the Future, Michael J. Fox was Eric Stolts, and like they all were like, Eric Stolts is a great actor, but he's playing this too dark. He's not pulling off the comedy.

It's the same words on the page they bring in Michael J. Fox, and we have like what I think is like the best movie of all time, Like that's literally my favorite movie ever. So could the same be true that like the same words, maybe you could have had your melo drama if it wasn't Kenny Artaga. And I'm not critic. I love Kenny Arteaga. I think I don't think this is a director issue. It's a script issue. It's a script issue. It's not a director issue. There

wasn't drama in the script enough. I don't think. I think the characters were too got too far afield from what they had established, and it's and it didn't make any kind of there wasn't any kind of real emotional logic to it. Um. So that's when you sort of disengage from a character, from a narrative, from a storyline

from a show like things are feeling up. Let me tell you something, it's very very difficult to remain consistent, uh with the show this complex, with character, this many voices, Very difficult to do right because I wouldn't even call this a dud, it's just sort of character. You're right, right, I know I'm sounding very negative. You're you're not, but I did enjoy the episode. I mean the kids stuff. I kind of flagged a little bit, you know, um, when it's too much Lane, Rory and Sweetie talk and

all this time stuff, I kind of check out. But but it's but it's I really thought they did have some good scenes and good scenarios. There was a lot of laughs. I don't want to be so negative about it, but I just think the the uh, you know, separating Laura Line and Rory to this degree, I think it hurts the show. I think that's a really interesting point. I don't I think, because you know, I'm even just thinking about like the school was Tepee. That was funny.

I did laugh out loud quite a few times. But I see what you're saying. Okay, wait, so I have a few listen. Listen. There there are lead characters in series, and then there's Lauren Graham and Gilmore grows. You you go away from her and you don't spend the kind of time that you want to spend with her because she's the conductor of the orchestra. He really enjoyed was you and Billy talking about that, because he has had such a great experience with her. You had such a

great experience with her. I loved hearing the two of you sort of just talk about how she is an Olympian essentially U and if you don't spend enough time with her in an episode, if she's not And maybe they did it because they were giving Laura a rest, you know what I mean. It's like this had a lot to do in this episode. But I see what you're saying. It wasn't the chemistry were used to either. And look not for nothing, I'm not blowing smoke up your you know what, but there wasn't a lot of

Laura lie Luke, which we do. Really those scenes are that same you're getting coffee, like It's just it's something so special because I think we only have like the one scene where you were with them briefly, and it was really more about you and Taylor, So it was like we didn't get to see I think this episode proves that this show cannot be sustained. Uh, dealing with kid World all the time for the majority of the show cannot sustain it. If that's the show they wanted.

If that's the show the c w wanted, then they should have dictated that to Amy and Dan and said, listen, I can't have these older characters so much. They're there, They're gonna be twelve fourteen on the call sheet. We want the kids. Just make it about the kids. But they didn't make that show. They made a show about a mother and a daughter and this heavy relationship with a diner on right. Yeah, I mean right the show. There is nothing without Lauren Graham with the show amazing

as Alexis is, which I do think she's amazing. This is Lauren Graham. You don't have a show without those two. And they've got to be together. They've got to be interacting with me, they've got to be interacting with the parents, and then you get then you get some fun kids stuff tips right right show. That's the backbone of the show. A couple more things. There was the cringe eest most inappropriate line ever in the episode you know dude, you guys. It was so when the guys are playing the band.

I don't even want to say the line because it made me like I literally wrote, oh gay when he said gay, even twenty years ago. That was not that No, that was rough. There was a funny line though, when um dosies reunion, they like me wonder why he's got so many pas in shoppy with that so to shop He's like, what do you have so many pas in there? Like? So that was good I found under use of Michelle,

I could have used a lot more Michelle. We had that one sort of scene where they're like, are you French? I fought in the war, and it was like, the right, that is the most happy cliche thing, you know, you want to bash World War two veterans because it was like, what that scene really should have been cut out of the episode. Yeah, it made it made that veteran look ridiculous, and they were I think they were trying, Yeah, what's

the angle here? So again you might be right, Like I don't want to criticize John Stevens the you do a better French joke, but there was some bad writing in this. Yeah, I mean, for God's sake, there's a million other things that you can interact, you know, a

patriot or World War two veteran interacting with Michelle. And there was so much comedy you could have had with Michelle with Taylor and like, we know he's French, like we were in season three, Like we didn't a joke, Like I feel like we needed more like he just seemed it was just like a filler, it feels. It was a little funny when Emily said her bitter old biddies, but it was also like, really, you got to be so mean to the like Granny's. But I could let

that one slide. Uh. The young shoe stuff with the fake dating and him talking to Karen wasn't named Karen, know what? Yeah, something like that. It was kind of classic if her name was Karen, because she's so like, kind of mad, you know, Kirk messing up the hockey. I would have enjoyed that more, maybe if some of the other stuff wasn't sort of like so over the top. Two Yeah it was. It was just it was just an odd episode, you know. One once one thing is off,

then it sort of throws everything else off. It's like a house of cards. What about Miss Patty singing the national anthem with the bet? That was pretty That was good. But they were good, but then it seemed like the crowd didn't care. I was like, what's going on? I did like how Rory discovered that sports are really about food and she enjoyed that, notcho I am Rory when it comes to sports. I'm like, oh, does Dodger Gaines get some notches? Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, there was some

good laughs for sure. Yeah, like even when or lies like are you serious? Are you serious? Like that was funny. I am being serious and I am serious. Lane kind of knowing after they saw lindsay like, hey, are you okay? Lane kind of knew like that's a little tough. So that was mm hmmm mm hmmm. The whole kissing the man thing for Graham was kind of also random, but yet I did laugh at Emily kind of like sneaking me out and then basically hiding in the Everything was funny,

but also like, who cares that she's kissing this old guy? Right? Why are you leaving your own house? Right? It's you. It's your freaking house. That's your right. It's like, go upstairs, you're going the kitchen. What are you leaving for? I don't know. None of this made sense to me, but a lot of it didn't make sense. The kids, you know, the kids stuff kind of saved me. I was befuddled at the end because I felt like Rory would have been happy that Jess got the concert. Take it's and

they went and had a good time. So the fact that she was so bummed when she got home threw me off. I was like, WHOA, what's going on? To be honest, I can't really like watching it back in order like this. I'm like, I can't even remember what happened the next couple episodes after this, like diving into like I'm like, what's next? I don't remember? Well, you know, it's kind of weird. Is maybe Scott you could this sort of felt like a filler episode or like plunked

it in there. I mean, obviously we're gonna have more from lindsay yes, but I think Grant, I don't. I don't obviously. I think this episode served the purpose of um maybe trying to refocus the attention from a different demo on a narrative the studio thinks is going to be far more powerful in terms of selling ads and

getting Let's focus on the kids. Let's let's do the Dean uh Rory Milo or Jess uh Troy ka there and and let's spice this up a little bit with kids, you know, and let's see if we can get better ad dollars or something like that, you know what I mean. And let's let's see how this episode is received and let's see see if the critics mentioned it, see what happens with with our buyers and that kind of thing.

I really think that it was a business move, you know, to really try to ye, I'm not gonna lie peeked ahead a little bit. And and there's a very big adult storyline coming next week. So well, I mean the head too, did you. I was watching last night and I was like, I really want to watch two episodes tonight.

But I thought myself, like a couple of minutes in and you know, and you know, maybe, you know, maybe in the writer's room they were given this dictates from the studio and they just was kind of like, Jesus, what do we do now? And next next week's written by Amy, so we know that it's going to be and it's called the Big One. That's the title. Yeah. I don't want to harp on on the writing, even though well there was some cringe e writing in there,

so that, but I don't want to. I don't know if you want to necessarily blame the writer for the writing, because he may have been facing some impossible tasks and there was something funny. There was some funny stuff. I mean, I did laugh out loud, and I enjoyed myself watching it. It's not like I'm ever look at It's like comparing, you know, five star restaurants, like it's always a five star,

but some are just light. Maybe just get a slightly better, right, Well, really you don't think this was like, well the five star, the Michelin star restaurants clothed, let's go get a hot dog on the No, I do not do you? I do not. I wasn't that like Arby's. I think for me, like this episode, if it were just like if I was going through the channel on TV and it was on, I just want to watch one. And I haven't watched

Gilmore Girls in a while. It's like a phil like you said, it's like a filmer entertaining, but watching an order like comparing it week after a week, we're like, yeah, you know, that's a great point. God, that's so and I know we have to go in a second, but that's such a great point. The way we're watching it is different, like so, I'm do you guys ever just you're on USA Network and literally s VU is on

every week constantly. I always enjoy it, but I don't know if I went to the very beginning of Law and Order SVU and started watching it in order, if each episode would you know there is something about watching him in order. But there's also I've ever seen that show stop never stop it really never seen a single episode. I've seen every episode. I've never seen it in order.

I just like, turn it on while I well, I don't think you would like it because you don't like I mean, you were in Saw, but you don't really like murder, and like, I'm you would love it. I love that. I love trying to figure out what's going on criminal minds, I love that crap. Yeah, okay, so Scott,

we do have something exciting you are doing. So Scott, there there's these awesome which people listening no, these Gilmore conventions, like I don't know what to call them, but you're doing an amazing one and we're actually going to be at it live. So we wanted to give people a bit more information because it is the first time we're going to be there live. Well, Tar is going. I'm going. I don't lie, so I can't get there, but Tar is going, and so we're gonna do a special episode

from there. So we wanted to have like the person who's putting on the convention come on to tell us a little bit more about it, so we can get everybody pumped up, whether they can go in person or they're gonna be able to listen in to the podcast. And it's a pretty much a summer fest of Gilmore hotties. Can I say that? Say anything? He wants free country, will you guys bring him? Laney? So this is the

person putting on the what's it called again? And him we were actually hosting all the panels at the event, So tell us about it, tell us tell us everything. Um. So it's called Epics and Chill. It's at the Omar Shrine Auditorium UM in the Charleston, South Carolina area. It's August nineteen through one. Um, we're gonna have six members of the cast of Gilmore Girls, I know, and this is Matt Zukries and um Greg Henary's first convention. So that's Logan and then that's Mr hunts Barger, So it's

Logan and his dad. Yeah, so you can get the father and son photo and then I know, oh my god, I actually wish I was going. And then Scott's going to be there and he's doing a special uh coffee meat and greet. Actually the coffee meeting green sold out, but there's a town hallal congratulations Scott. Coffee date meant greet that's already sold out. But there's a town hall meet and greet. That's uh, everyone but Matt Um and that's including Scott and that that's so genius who thought

of calling it a town hall. It's John Cabrera, Seawn Gunn, Scott Patterson obviously and um and uh Yannick Schuesdale. First of all, if you have Scott, you have Michelle. That's all you need. So can so okay, if there still hotel rooms, like if people want to go like and where can they go to find out more information for

people listening? So there are still ho terror rooms, And just really quickly that if you also are fans of Gossip Girl, teen Wolf, Um, we have Shane West, Brian Greenberg, Tyler Posey from teen Wolf is doing a concert on Saturday night. And we just announced Taylor Lautner, who's hasn't

done anything. I'm good friends with Taylor. He never does this kind of thing, does not He's actually he's actually never done a convention in this way, like he's done panel, he's done a couple of panels in two thousand eleven. He's never come and done like the photos auto. So this is his first really real convention experience. So Scott, that ties it together for you because you just talked Twilight with Billy Burke last week. Look, this is gonna

be a huge convention. This is there's so many there are so many like really popular shows represented. Yeah, like she said, teen Wolf, Gossip Girl, all kinds of people are gonna be there. I've never seen a lineup like this at a convention before. It's like it's town Again where it's like a w extramgy. Yeah, I was gonna say it really town again. So it's it's it's the Charleston, South Carolina area that the venue is technically in Mount Pleasant,

but that's like basically a suburb of Charles, Charleston. That's like cool. Tara is going tar Yeah, pumped, Oh my god, I'm so excited. We just cook. Yeah, I saw it on my credit card and I'll give you We're actually we're about to announce one of our not our last guest, but one of our final guests and it's Chase Crawford who was in Gossip Girl and also what yeah, yeah, I did. I did a convention with Chase in New York.

Oh my god. Wait, so this is just like Hottie Central Girls Girls Weekend and we have a lot of people doing that. It's definitely a total girls weekend for sure, Tara. I'm gonna need to face time us like a lot when when I'm not with Scott working, I'm probably gonna be off another panel. God's gonna be like, where is Yes, Okay, so you guys, Scott does these, but this is the first time we're gonna be doing the podcast from the convention, so that's gonna be awesome. I can't wait tout August Night,

August first, Uh huh in Charleston, South Carolina. The website is, uh, this is a pretty epic convention, wouldn't you say so? Yeah, epic cons dot com so E P I C C O N S dot com. And we'll put it on our Instagram and in the show right up, Tara, will you make sure we put it in the show right up so people have the info. Oh I love me some Matt Zukari, so you know I'm team logan. This

is his very first convention ever. So get it. Get in rv AM getting I have to leave now to you imagine, get the Eastern, get get the whole game. I know Tara got the prize on this one. I really did. Oh my god, you guys pull straws on he got to come or I think it was a battle definitely between Tara and Easton and then Tara one somehow. Congratulations, we might have to send someone. This is pretty I'm

not gonna lie. Yeah, absolutely, this is a big one because we need someone to hold the phone Tara, to take all the photos with you, with all the true If you guys do not send me a photo of you with Matt Zukri, Like literally, I'm gonna be mad. We're gonna you know, We're gonna have to get in line and wait our turn to get a photo of them. Scot on line for first. I don't know. First of all, I'm afraid. I'm afraid of if I go off to him in the green room and say, Mr su Creek,

do you remember me we worked? Can I get a photo with you? Can you get the hell away from me? You have to do that. You have to wait in line to get like, oh my god, I need the video. I need that. Every One told me I'm not supposed to call it the Instagram. I need it for Instagram. Oh my god, I get that. We'll put all the info. This is amazing. Friday night event um is karaoke with several of the celebrities, including John Carberra. So you can

come sing karaoke with John Carbara on Friday night. All yeah, I mean these are things you can't do other places. Oh my god. Wait, and Charleston's kind of cool. What is it hot there? What do people wear? Um? It's a beach town, so I think, and it's August, so definitely your beach were Oh my god, I love it, Tar, I'm so jealous. I'm excited. This might be my favorite work trip I'll ever do. Okay, so incredibly excited to have you, Scott. I just wanted to let you know

and I can't. I'm looking forward to our panels. So oh, it'll be fun. It'll be fun. It'll be a lot of fun. Are we doing U? Are we doing a panel just you and me? Or is you and me and all the guys? It'll be me and you and all the guys except so that will that it's everyone, So we're gonna have to actually figure that out. So Sean Gunn was originally going to be there both days, but this guy named James Gunn has messed up a

little bit. He's gonna Sewan is only going to be there on Sunday and Matt's only there on Saturday because of Matt's filming schedule. So we're we originally had a panel of all together, but we're gonna probably do something on Saturday with Matt and then something on Sunday with Shawn. So we're we're actually that just kind of came through the pipeline, so we're figuring that out. But well, my

production cleared me no problem. I don't know what they're problems. Oh. I will say though, but right before Matt does take back off to go back to UH filming on Sunday morning, we are going to be able to do that that amaze in group shot of all six of you together though it's coming in just for that before he leaves for the airport. So I love that. That's why Matt's awesome. Maybe I can meet him there. Well, no, you'll be there even there on Saturday with him I hope you.

I hope you get your moment with Matt ser I want a moment. Oh my god, I need I need it. I don't know who gets to the hotel first, but I feel like, you know, you guys should have like this. Can you see Scott just creeping on Matt's room? Oh no, I'll be too nervous and if the elevator I'll back the hell out. I'm sorry, sorry, sorry god. Yeah, well, Tara, I'm jealous. You'll be there and I'll be texting you

the whole time. You're gonna face time me. Yeah, I'll just face Why don't you take one of the yachts. Start now. I know when we do the podcast, I'll get to be on the zoom, so I'll get to see we'll get to be on the zoom. I'll see everybody through this. This is how we really do the podcast from the panel. Yeah, Laney's no, We're gonna do

it kind of like backstage. Laney's figuring it all out. Oh, I got you, all right, And then we'll have special guests that'll be we could during the group photo op with everyone, we could hold up a FaceTime of EU Daniel and then you could have a group photo with the FaceTime. It's gonna be it'll definitely be a convention specific episode. I don't know if we're gonna be able to watch a Gilmore episode and analyze exactly. We'll make it a special it'll be a whole different thing, exactly. Well,

thank you so much. We'll see you soon. Thank you so much for having you. I look forward to seeing you both at the convention. And you can't wait to meet you, Laney, And thanks for all the help. It's a lot to do, uh, and you're doing a great job. So we're gonna have a lot of fun. Thank you so much. I'll see you all right. So ye see everybody Auguste and Charleston right outside of Charleston at the Epics and Chill Convention Fan Convention in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina,

which is right outside of Charleston. Man, that's gonna be a great city, great time. Boy, this is gonna be really something. Tara, better get your sleep. Well, this is the first time that we ever do a podcast in person together, like everyone. Oh yeah, this will be the first time that you guys are meeting in person. Yeah, you're the only one I've been in a room withn't

met personally. I know. It's that weird. It's it's so weird because when you guys see each other, you will forget that because it's like it's like we're all together all the time. Wait, Scott, are you really tall? I mean I'm like six one. Okay, I'm really sure. It's it always like, heads up, I'm shorter than you think. I'll tell you I'm five one. Scott's going to be

a foot tall you huh? Someone else? Like one of someone else we work with their Like after a year with you on Zoom, I didn't realize how short you were. I'm immediately googling how tall is Matt Zukriyah compare my he's like five eight, five nine, But Mr Huntsberger seems tall. Yeah, it says Matt is five nine. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think Mr hunts tall. He's like five eleven. That means I need to get a photo with them Amy so we can see. That's your Christmas card? Hello, right, yeah,

you're like, Merry Christmas. Everyone. Let me tell you something. It's going down this summer. Oh my god. Yeah. If I were listening and I could figure out a way to get there, I would do it. Ladies, Just why do you just get on a plane take a pill yourself. I haven't been on a plane since seven or something. Something happened. Did you get there? I just have issues and I feel like I'm going to die every time I'm in there. It's claustrophobia. The idea to go on

elevator the RV isn't a bad idea though. RV is a great way to travel. I don't you, Danielle across the country? That is like, you know, it's like you're going on tour. Man, it's fun. It's a lot of fun. Alright, next week, what's the episode? I think it's called the Big One Episode, season three? Wow? See you then? All right, so this is all one episode. We've just jesus, it's really just over an hour. It's actually was an hour

and nine minutes. Yeah, you just enjoying yourself. Yeah, so tune in if you want to hear me complain for an hour night. Got a really lifted, really put a little zipperty in your JUDEA promo? Please God, can we please gotta promo? Is St Matterson the Ewing Podcast? And what are we complain about? Your favorite in our nine minutes. This week's for you. It's an honest to god bitch fest with your favorite host. How listen, how much do

we hate this episode? But then we would you know, we would qualified by saying no, But we really enjoyed it, and there were a lot of of all. That's the funniest part is I was like, it's not our favorite, but we loved it. But we didn't love it. But we did love it, but we hated it. What was all? We loved the writing. Listen, if I if I was just if I just came home from work, right, I'm tired, my feet hurt, my back hurts. You know, I gotta take a test, I need some food, and this episode

came on. It would make me laugh and it would improve my day. It would I would enjoy the heck at it. I really would, I really really would. Right, It's only like Tara said, when you're comparing it to everything because we're spoiled, were so spoiled, Right, Yeah, yeah, we're tough. We're tough. Bye bye, All right, enjoy your week, everybody, everybody, and don't treat had. Follow us on Instagram at I Am all In Podcast and email us at Gilmore at

I Heart radio dot com. Oh you Gilmore fans. If you're looking for the best cup of coffee in the world, go to my website for my company, scott ep dot com. S C O T. T y P dot com, scott ep dot com Grade one Specialty Coffee. Yeah.