Nicole is the woman I am dating. That’s it. (S3 E16 "The Big One”)

like eight five, eight seventy five. It's really nice. Humidity is rough. Well yeah, I mean, look when you're working. We're working downtown how Halifax yesterday, and it was it was a little muggy, but it was okay. You know. Anyway, let's get to this episode. How about the Big One. Let's you know, Tara kick us off and we'll get into this take over for Danielle. So she's out today on a plane. Everybody, she's coming back from New York. She'll be here next week. Yeah. So this is season three,

episode sixteen. The Big One air date was February two thousand three. The synopsis is Laura Lai and Rory are anxiously awaiting Rory's acceptance letter from Harvard, and surprisingly get more than what she expected. Paris takes a big relationship step forward with Jamie, but a step back when it comes to Harvard. Meanwhile, the two of them have to team up to give a speech for Chilton's by Centennial. Max is back in the picture as Lorelei runs into him at the pharmacy and speech event, but is he

really over her? M Okay, I'm just gonna say this and then I'm gonna let you Amy take us through this, Okay, but I just want to say this at the top of the podcast. This episode was flawless, flawless. There wasn't there wasn't a hole, there wasn't. I mean, it was one of the best experiences I've had viewing any kind of an episode, and definitely I think it's my number one gilpisode so far. The same and we did not talk. We did not talk last night to see if each

other liked it. I at the end walked out of my bedroom into the kitchen and said, well, that's how you do it. That's how you do it, that's bang, that's like I mean where we separated at first, you think maybe something what's going so because that was wow, everything everything That is how you balance the humor which was constant and great with a little bit of drama,

not a lot of drama. It had the right tone, you know, a little bit um interesting that Emily was not in this episode, even though even though she was in the episode, because they referred to her, she right, we didn't see her. Yeah. I don't know if it was a relief or what it. I don't know if Emily, you know, it makes me question whether when Emily comes on screen everybody gets tense, you know what, what what physiological effects she has on an audit. I look forward

to it. But I loved and here's what we're talking about character rehab. When I when I texted you said, asked me about this because it especially applies for Richard and Paris, who I just I thought, ed heard and gave the performance of in this episode and it wasn't even super dramatic. It was just sort of his comedy skills, just beautiful. Bravo lies a while. Is that how you stay your last name? Yeah, Paris Geller, I mean that performance like that was so amazing. Keep going about about

ed Herman, but we'll get to it. Well, let you take us through the episode and I'll get to that stuff. I don't want to just talk about what I love so much about the episode right at the top, so let's let's spread it out through it. Yeah, okay. So the first scene we sort of get the setup that, oh my gosh, the college acceptances are coming. And then we encounter postman Kirk, which was always has a new

job and always sort of floundering at it. But a big episode right off the top, because this is what Laurel I has been doing for seventeen years, getting her ready to get to Harvard. You know, I mean, this is like a and it was the big one. That's the big episode, the big one. It keep going and some funny lines where they, you know, Loalize says something to the effect of, if it's big, you're in. If it's little, you'll have to marry Rich. Just very quick lines.

And then we also learned that Mrs Rita Flora has died. She must be a stars Hollow Town member. We didn't really know, So I'm going to Google readA Flora that's got to be an historical reference somehow, ma he be. I don't know. I just assumed she was someone that lived in the town that Kirk cat or mail and they call him Santa, which I thought was funny. And his shirt says Mail Carrier, So you know, I love Kirk as the as the postman. I thought that was

all great. So we go from there to Luke's, which was quite a significant theme because we learn there are new menus because of Nicole and that he's still with Nicole like Nicole, and and then and it spawned one of the great lines. You've been menu whipped. That was a brilliant Luke Laurel scene. Yeah, because they're just king pong like we love obviously they love each other. Even

though what was what was the menu item that Cristo? Yeah, yeah, but I love that it was on the menu just because it was maybe I could order it, not that I ever had. He said, it's a it's a conversation piece. You've eliminated a conversation piece. I actually didn't know what a monna Cristo was. I had the mother is so good. It's kind of like a is it like a reverse grilled cheese, got tomato and ham and cheese. What do you think of a tomato? I don't know, you know,

croake monster. I don't know how you say that. Yeah, they I looked it up. So so there's like a sandwich that's on menus croke monster, which I think is a fancy way of saying grilled cheese. I think the Monna Cristo is like the deep Yeah it's with ham, turkey and Swiss cheese and it's dipped in egg batter and deep fried. Yeah, so bad for you, but so yeah, so good. I never had a Monic Crystal I've had I've had one. Do they We're we're gonna need to

track down they have some amy, they have some of Disneyland. Disneyland, Yeah, that's where I had it. Where um it's at uh. I mean it's like if you want New Orleans Square and you can dip it in like um, like like a restaurant, but they now serve it outside of the Blue Bike you so you don't have to make a reservation. You can just order it and get it. And they have like a jelly like a jam that you can dip it in. Oh it's so good. Maybe I should go maybe next time, Like you're here, Amy, I should

go get one and like bring it to you. Where are you? Where are you near? Just I'm in San Francisco. She's in l A. So you can go to Disneyland. Wait are you going to Disneyland? Maybe we need to make a video of you eating the I mean, can you guys? Okay, great, I'm going on Saturday. Great? Can you film yourself and doing the Monte Cristo so on the Instagram? Sure? Oh that's nice. Okay, well okay, So Scott,

what do you think, Scott? What does Scott think about the fact that Luke kind of did what Nicole wanted, added salads and did new menus? What does Scott think of that? I think that, Um, I think the seeds of doom have been planted, because I mean because Laurel. Laurels level of ridicule is the bell weather for his life, isn't it right? Oh my god? I so agree. It's like, oh no, he's adding salads. They're over. It's going to

be over. That's what I thought said, because Luke doesn't even though he's doing it, he's really doing it to be sweet. He really likes her. But no, Laura, I would never ever ever make Luke add salads to the menu, and that's why he got so irritated, because he knows he's in the wrong relationship. It wasn't a conversation about the menu. It was a conversation about you're you're with the wrong girl. I'm the right girl. All subconscious, right,

all subliminal. I totally agree, right, like I would. Basically she's saying I wouldn't try to change you. So, you know what I loved about that scene, the subtlety they get the menus, this looks different, like so, and then you're like like, are we at Luke's what's happening here? You know? And then he's like what I had all my doodle And then because these new menus the plastic is to discourage the doodling. I mean to me, I thought it was like I love the whole scene. Yeah.

Oh and then oh my god, what is the part where they say girlfriend and you say, no, Nicole is the woman I am dating? That's it, which is like also just telling me this woman is going to be gone. Yeah she's going, that's for sure. Yeah she's she's having an undo influence on Luke. And that and Laura line has to leap into action and make sure she writes the ship. Yes, And really I don't know if it's so much born of her wanting to be with him.

It's just really like her world is built around these things, right, did you try to change? This is not happening? Uh? You know what? I think? It's kind of interesting. So you know what in and out there's like secret menu items. Why weren't the salad just why can't Nicole just order the salad? Like did it have to be on the menu because you know, I don't know, she's an attorney. She maybe she just wants to take over. She's looking at Luke and she's beginning like maybe his clothes will

change to addressed differently, you know what I mean? Maybe she's suggesting, why do you wear the hat all the time? You know? Now if that came off, I mean all hell would break loose. It's just over. Yea. So we now go from Luke Steiner to Chiltern. Now I'm really hungry what happened? So we learn there's a new teacher, which I didn't know. I didn't recognize that teacher, and then we learn that there is the children by Centennial celebration,

and there's the speech competition. Brad Langford has returned. Who got the Hickey? Which that was uh, Louise, that was It's Louise and made yeah uh. And we learned that this the winner of the speech sort of competition will be on c SPAN, which I love, Like I'm jumping ahead, but I love Richard's love of the vote in the like literally he's all, oh, it's fascinated. So Paris is in rare form just being so vile Brad. Yeah, but

it was fine. It was fine, But I also totally I also was wondering, like, how did Brad finished school while on Broadway? Maybe he was just doing he was doing a theater school. What's that called TV school? Theater school? Yeah, they have this, and in New York they're really good, and I'm sure they're good everywhere, but New York. Yeah. And I do think there was an inside joke there because I actually think he went to do into the woods if I remember, yeah, it was to the Woods,

you but Brad Langford went to the Woods. But so the actor if I remember, you know what, Yeah, we had him on, didn't we that? Yeah? Yeah he did. It was it was Amy Amy's opportunity to uh to express her love of musical theater, which has love for you. My favorite line was do you need a five, six, seven, eight, get out of my way? Reading moreno or no? What did he say? Rivera? Out of my Wayeta Rivera? So that sort of sets up. That was a great scene. That just sort of sets up like, Okay, we're gonna

have this competition. This is a major thing in this episode. And now it's also paris Is back. We haven't back paris Is back. We've seen her, but not in her in her like mean elements. But right now she's like full guns again the way she was when we first met. And we see that she's still feuding with Rory, which Weeks would have needed to be reminded. They have clearly not made up, which makes the sort of moment that

we'll get to. She's she's like the Mohammed Ali of private school girls versus the Joe Frasier of private school girls in Glory, where Mohammed Ali's talking, talking all the smack and then he gets in the ring and gets knocked out. I love the boxing reference that most of us did not get. But yeah, nobody's heard of Muhammad Ali, right, No, that when I knew that, I'm assuming Mohammad Ali was the that, you know, like a butterfly, sting, like a

b guy whatever. And then with Joe Frasier quiet, subtle, nice, you don't think he's going to have bark to his bite kind of a thing. I don't think I got any of those phrases right. Ali verbally abused and humiliated Joe Frasier during the marketing campaign for the for the fight. He was he was big at promotion and and Joe took it very personally one and Joe knocked him out. Also, sorry for the interrupting. I see you Instagram. I'm working on it and working. I just get excited. I get it, okay.

So then we go to the inn and Suki is in the kitchen and we immediately know something is wrong. The food tastes bad. That's not like suki. No, and it tastes like sewage, and the whole kitchen staff knows. I thought the background acting there it was it was very musical theater. When Roy came in and wanted to eat something and they go that was like being on Broadway.

That was a Broadway stick, right, That whole scene was so choreographed to because she thinks the food is fine, and you immediately know the whole kitchen staff knows the food is not fine. So that was just all amused saying, and uh, that was really that was so much happening, really great reveal for her pregnancy. I thought that scene was remarkably heartwarming and fun and just just happy and what a great way. I mean, she just comes running out I'm pregnant, and I knew because I assumed Lord

I was looking at the calendar or something. The sudden realization of like, oh my god, and also just like food tasting different and stuff like that. I don't know if she was looking at the calendar. I felt like Loya I was looking at the calendar. She went to the computer, right, and she's doing something which looked like a new computer. By the way, did anyone else think they've kind of upgraded their technology there at the Maybe

maybe they did. So she's the whole thing. There's so much movement in that scene because think about it, we start in the kitchen, we've got the plates out, which I actually thought the plates didn't look as beautiful it as a presentation as I would expect but if the food look good. It did, but it looked it didn't look plated as I would assume. Suki insist that the food we plated, but I thought it that was my

only bone to pick. Oh, we forgot to start with our bones to pick because we have barely any but that movie my one. We're out of the bone yard on this episode exactly. So then we go So then Rory be bops in and she's sort of explaining her situation versus Paris with the speech, and we're learning about that wall that we're doing this dance in the kitchen with the plates in the Then no, then we go out to the front desk. I swear Laura went in

her purse and did she get candy? And he handed like a chocolate bar and she handed it to Rory and she ate it the whole time. She gave her what was it a tick tack or looks like a kick kat or essen kit kat. So she and all the movements, so she's in the purse, she grabs it, she hands the candy. Rory's eating the candy, still telling the story about the speech. All we're simultaneously in the back of our minds thinking about why does the food taste grows? I mean, there was so much happening. It

was like you could be spinning. And then she goes to the computer. Oh my god, I'm pregnant. Suki comes out pregnant. I mean, the whole scene was just like but that's why it's great. There's so much going on. There's there's all these narratives running around, and it's the the audience is a little bit behind the story, which

they need to be. If we get out in front of it, we're bored if we're behind it, So that so Amy is just like loading on stuff and great lines and and and we just like we're on the edge of our seat, like what's next. And I caught something and I don't think it was a real deep personal insult against her mother, but she said something very funny to her mother. Tell me, wait, so Rory says something to Loure Lie. Yeah, and this is the thing I need to was the scene like three more times

because there's so much happening, so retain it. Roy said, you know, she had bitted to her mother that she wanted to win this competition because she wanted to give the speech on on c span right, So she said, uh, I really want to do that, mom, I want to I really want to beat Paris and I want to run around the circles and said I went, I went, I yes, And Laurel I says, well, that's great. You're

becoming more like me. Now, this isn't that she and she goes, yeah, I know it's a kind of creepy and petty, but you know, dad, And I'm like, wow, is that a backhanded slapper? But Laurela I didn't take it that way. And I'm sure it wasn't end of a dig. I would have never unless you said that, I probably wouldn't have noticed. Yeah I noticed. I do know what you're talking about. I don't think. I don't want to make a big thing, you know, No, But it's a little it's funny. It's funny, like a little

bit of a dig, a compliment dig. It's sort of like it's a backhanded compliment, right, And it's like their relationship is so solid and so tight that you could just sort of but it's sort of like when someone says like, oh, you look good, have you lost weight?

And then you're like, wait, yeah, no, I just had that conversation with someone because like I usually don't wear like a lot of makeup on these rooms and almost like, wow, you look great, and I put like mascara on and like my line and I'm like, yeah, I actually tried, right, So you're like I look and look bad brother day. But but but these are the kinds of comments that can end relationships. I mean, you know what I mean if you're not so close the yeah anyway, I think.

But it's also great. It's that's ultimate sort of compliment, but not like, okay, so great scene. And then so now we've got another humongous plot something what do you call it? Thing? Because now Suki is pregnant. So it's like, oh my god, we're waiting for the college acceptances. Now we've got this sort of secondary storyline of this speech. Suki is pregnant. It's like, oh my okay. So now the kids at Chiltern are all kind of getting ready

to do their audition speeches. I guess I don't know what you'd call it, Like they're they're doing their tryout speeches, and Paris is just intimidating the whole line, just going down the line. She just it was one after another. All right, so I want to tell you a story. And this is a common technique adopted by people who are hmm, I don't know if I want to say insecure, just just people that want to psych out a room.

And I did this one time in an audition and there was a uh an, extremely beautiful woman there at this one audition, and there was a lot of guys in the room. And I actually knew this girl and I knew her boyfriend. So I told her, I said, listen, don't you know, like recognize me and I won't recognize you, but I want let's do something to them. Because there were a lot of a lot of girls. There are a lot of guys auditioning. It was a big part. It was like in the it was I don't know,

it was in like the mid to late nineties. And I said, every single guy in this room is staring at you. Okay, they all want to ask you out. I said, why don't I just come up to you start chatting you up. That'll start getting into their heads, right, it will, And then I will take you outside and we will run lines, so we'll help each other with the audition because I want to run lines and I'm sure you want to run lines because it was the part was to be opposite each other as a boyfriend

and girlfriend. Um, and it'll it'll freak all these guys out and give it'll give you the edge. It'll give really me a bigger edge. And when I get in the room, because I'll be the I'll be the cool guy. I'll be the cool guy that like, you know, this work. I did get the part. Yes, she said, yes, let's

do it. She said, let's let's do it. So we went outside and they could see us because it was these these windows, these uh, ceiling to floor windows, and then the shades weren't drawn, so they saw us out there laughing and talking and oh my god, and they got tighter and tighter and tighter and tighter. And I walked in loose, loose and prepared and got and got the offer. You you know, it's so funny. It's the first time. I mean, I think I've probably thought about

this before. But like when you're yes, acting is not just about the skill, but you're also like up against these other people and they're all good actors too, they're all good cutthroat. Oh yeah, it is, oh yeah, the pressure in those waiting rooms reminds me of like the doctor's office. Wait, that's all that's everybody's like, Am I dying? Right? That's why I wanted That's how I wanted to go more to Lucy Lucy goosey and loud and how did

you do that one? Same? I didn't. I didn't do mind games so much in that one, but I walked in the room and I was just sort of like free and loud and how you doing? What's happening? And it is better to go in not caring if you get it or not. I mean, if you can mentally do that, Yeah, that's best. Yeah, it's it's it's it's actually a good idea. If you no, you're not going to get it, don't care if you're going to get it, but you're prepared. Yeah. Wait, so do you You didn't?

You don't audition anymore? Did you audition for this job you have now? Now? Oh? No, no, no, it was a phone call. Yeah, when's the last audition? He went on, Oh jeez, I well they do them on tape now, So I I put an audition on tape for Natalie Portman to play opposite her in this series. She's doing that cool or to be her, to be not not her love interest, but her, to be her maybe maybe her boss. Oh that's cool. Yeah, I wouldn't. I'm putting myself on tape. I can't even answer. Yeah, it's a

whole different world. That's a whole different world. Yeah, I want to get a picture taken. It's like, okay, alright, so we digress a great story. So Paris, that Paris has got some game in your same she's got some game. She's I love Rory kind of like again Rory's it's it's like good cop, bad cop or something like Garris is so unhinged and Rory's like, go go get him, Brad, You'll do great, and like don't listen to her and like and then trying to go up against Paris, and

it's just they're so they make for great rivals. But I think but I think that Rory said less but had more impact and actually one that little tep I agree, I because she was on the side of right, yes, yes, and we need this because of what we're coming to. I mean, I know I never went into rooms and tried to bring anybody down that was that I was going to somebody and being like you suck man. Yeah, man, hey, you're not going to remember those lines. Jase, that's a

big paragraph. Did you have trouble like I did? Don't you hate it when you get tense in the room and you just freeze up. I hate that. I think that happened to you, buddy. The scene that we're getting at the end of the episode was so much more significant because of these scenes leading up to it. Okay, so absolutely absolutely. We get lower Lye on the phone with Suki and they're a you know, loyally is asking

how did it go when you told Jackson? And we learned that Jackson is completely freaking out losing his mind, which I actually found sweet. Oh boy, oh boy. I think I think a lot of dad's go through this. Id you. Yeah, but I didn't start babyproofing the house until throwing away knives. Yeah, I mean I I did it pretty quick. Uh wait, did you did you actually like freak out and start buying things for plugs? And

oh sure, well I didn't freak out. I just you know, we just bought what we needed to get the plastic things in the plugs, and there were a lot of plugs in that house bags full of them. Oh those things are so annoying. I cannot get them out. And we have plugs on the floor too. I mean they're all have those plug things all over our one of our houses and it's like I can't get them up.

Did you baby proof before the baby was born? No, when he started walking, we had the plugs, of course, but he was you know, he was in a crib for a year or what did you do all those things? You can't open a drawer, you know those things, so like the baby proof the drawers and then adults cannot open again. No, but we had to. We we tried to really subtle ones that go inside the drawer there and they really work and there's there. They could be a pain in the as. Then we ripped those out.

So this we can't we can't even figure out. So we got the big plastic, ugly white ones that actually work. It looks like a bike lock. So we had them all over, all over the kitchen, all over. Brother has baby gates like everywhere. Oh yeah, you have to. I just have to climb over them because I cannot be the baby. Yeah, it's easily, But we had we had as in the old house with this big sunken living room. We stepped down into a couple of stuff. But those

steps had corners. They didn't go across the whole the whole way, so they were so they were like sharp edges on those steps. So I would get the pillows that were on the couch that I didn't think we're particularly attractive in the first place. They were my wife's choice, and I would I would. I would cover those edges up all over the living room because it was on the dining room side and for your side, and I put the pillows there so if he ever fell, he'd

fall on the pillow. Smart and crazy, Yeah, no, no, it's what you do. You anticipate as a father. You anticipate and protect. Well, you don't. You don't wait for the bad thing to happen. You play all the bad things out in your mind. Every possible scenario is just clear everything out. It is funny, though, what people do for the first kid and then by the third kid. Hanging my sister in law was really like no TV, no sugar, like none of that for the first kid,

and then a little bit on the second. By the time my niece Roxy was born, it was like here's an iPad, here's a cup. Kid were going to say, I was gonna say, I love how Jackson's thinking about this and like it hasn't even comprehended that like a baby. He wanted, what was it? Five and five? Is that? What? Four and four? Four and four? And he's like, because I'm thinking like then, I mean, we're jumping ahead a little bit. But like the knife thing, it's like that,

you have years until the kids climbing together the kitchen counter. Oh, you'd be surprised how they can climb pretty quick. Yeah, it's it's boys are nuts. Like they are on top of the couch upside down. Yes, they are real fast. Yeah. Nick was like Spider Man. It was something. She was

on the ceiling one, So how did you get up there? Okay, so now we have sort of a what I think is a I guess I'll just we'll talk about it because she has to go to doses to look for the allergy medicine for it to not be there, I suppose, so that we have a reason for her to go in the CBS at Hartford or whatever whichever it was at. But it was still a funny scene with Dean and Kirk and Kirk's on the ground with the male and it was sort of just a mess. But it was

sort of a nothing scene. It was random because I was like, who needed the medication? She did? She had allergies, So it was just was random. Yeah, it was just like a plot. Don't you don't you flog my flawless episode. There was nothing wrong with it. That's my bones pick, that's my bones pick A little we are in a salmon you know something any bones today bumps right into Max. I forgot I forgot the drugstore and her for Harvard.

I'm assumed it was like yeah, right and Max and I thought, oh, what do you guys think I forgot? This even happens like I with a second I saw him, like, oh my god, that's right. He comes back like I forgot. So it was kind of a nice surprise for me. But I think Max will always I don't know, he has like out of all the besides Luke, out of all the random boyfriends, like he was my favorite. Wow, Okay, yeah, I liked him coming back, and I you know, I

love Scott Colin and I think he's terrific. And yeah he got he got the whammy and he got out of there and he's over it. You could tell he was over it. You could tell she wasn't over it. Terrific acting job on her part because she really did what she really was glowing that whole scene is just kind of smiling at him and she was flush in this whole episode. Was so pretty in the whole episode. See that's the subtlety of of what the what the really strong actors do is you can is what she

was doing in that scene. She was really happy to see him, and you can tell physically, you could tell. And when he left, she didn't want him to go, but he's like, okay, like goodn to see you, and she was like you could tell she wanted ten more hours. Very funny when he says he's in he was in California and she's all calibunga dude, and then the jokes about Stanford. I just thought, okay, good, yeah, I just at that point he was over all the you know,

the stand up comedian that she is. It's like, oh God, here we go again. You know, she she was using maybe using that the real back in. You know, he wasn't going for it, uh not really apparently not as he says, you know, so we'll get to that. She's powerful. Right. We go to Friday Night Dinner, which I thought was hilarious because it's so Richard, it's we get so there.

You're right, it is interesting. There's no Emily in this episode, and you Friday Night Night Dinner is much lighter, much funnier. He just like didn't know like what like like the phone was ringing in He's like, all right, I have to answer the phone. Oh my god, Laurel, I prank calling from the Oh but wait a minute. Her a line. When he opened the door, she goes, boy, mom's getting you. What do you saying? What do you say? What is something about? Wasn't about to help the maide, Yeah, they're

certainly looking. It was great. Let's see, let's see if our crack staff anyone remember. I did not remember because I was so that was a drawn over all, the strokes, the strokes and the d A R. But they made it funny. She Amy made it really funny with the strokes and the strokes on top of strokes, and people falling to remind us that they had strokes, you know,

they had strokes. And one of them says to each other or strokes stroke it so happy and then uh dying to tell Rory that she just bumped into Max. And I thought that it was so funny when Rory says, yeah, he was on loan somewhere her own somewhere. From that whole everything about it was awesome because that's where we get the c span line do where Richard's like, oh, I love a televised house. The school can change if the school can change the time, right right, Rory Alexis

is acting is so perfectly. But I love the ease and uh and the joy with which ed Herman was acting in that scene, you know, going over to get the drink and then sitting down and just you know, he he just is such a He was such a wonderful actor. He really you tell me about that, Like he makes it look like he's not acting or working right. Everything is that there's no sharp edges to it. It's all very smooth and it flows, and he's and he's you know, he's so alive and present and and and

just enjoying what he's doing. I mean, and you believe everything and even to the point where he stopped and turned around listen to it and then he realize he had to go answer the phone. I mean, it's all, it all has the quality of what Stanislawski used to call the quality of the first time. So it's like, it all seems very spontaneous when he's doing, like what everybody's doing. But but but ed Herman was such a wonderful actor, and I know I was. I was hard

on him last week. It wasn't him the actor, it was it was the situations that he was placed. And you're only as good as you're writing, Okay, you're just criticizing the fact that Richard, the Richard we know would have stood up for Emily and would have stood up to Tricks. That's why I find that I find that you go, no, no, I do not get that part

of his character, you know, I don't. I find so fascinating is that Richard would only be that way with his mother, meaning he would stand up to anybody, work at wherever. But his mother has power over him. And I find that to be very believable. But she but Tricks. She has Tricks has no redeeming qualities. Where are her redeeming qualities? I think I've not seen them. She has no empathy, and people that have no empathy, you know what, we call them narcissists. Yeah, yeah, even worse, even worse.

A narcissist can empathy. A narcissist can have some empathy, but a sociopath and a psychopath cannot. I think I think that is an interesting debate. If there's anything likable about brand Tricks, I think that we will. I think she has. I think there's more to it there. I don't think she's full villain. I think that Richard tricks dynamic I think hurts his character. You can't hurt her character, and more than than she already is. I mean, she's

she's in a fixed state of bad. But yeah, but Richard's character, how he bounces off of her, I think it. That's what I was objecting to. But there's an element of him that's a bit of a mama's boy, and I'm okay with that. It's not like I don't love it. I don't admire it. It's not, but it it makes sense to him. It goes against everything that he is about. It goes against everything that That's where we disagree. I think that's the part where we disagree because I think

I don't find it an interesting character quirk. It's it's there's something larger at play than that I don't like about I love him. I love him most of the time. His acting is just the it's the writing you are criticizing. But will continue this debate because Tricks is not going away. So we've got more of that. So quickly, we have the scene on the porch with Laura I am Suki. Quick brief scene, but we're realizing, Okay, like Jackson is a good guy. He's just trying to there was there

ever any doubt? Nope, no, And and even though he didn't get excited and Suki didn't have her moment with him of just being so happy, what we're realizing is like, this guy is taking this seriously. Let her drive, want drive more than seven miles per hour. It's like two hours to get home for the doctor's scene. That's a funny joke of itself. It's very dangerous in real life

to drive seven. And that scene where they're in the bed and sort of Jackson comes around, you really appreciate their relationship and the whole thing, and that was a great They are important characters in this show, really important. So yeah, I thought the way that all played out, I thought was great. So okay, so now we get the three way phone call, which is hilarious that the assistant is calling Rory and Paris with Headmaster Charleston to let them know that he's changed the rules and they

are going to do the speech together. I like how they're silent with each other when they were waiting to connect, like they just both didn't say a word, and they're so polite to head Master Charleston even though they're like, al so, why is he calling at night? I don't know, in on like a Friday night. Was Friday night, right like probably nine o'clock to probably give them the most possible time to begin working on a combined speed. And what's that guy still doing at school at nine o'clock

on a Friday night. Maybe it's what you think, you think, being a headmaster at a fancy private schools up all those calls to the Ivy League institutions talking about this student that student. My god, So Paris and Rory talk and okay, they're going to do the speech over the phone, and suddenly, knock, knock, knock, Paris Is at the door,

and we learned she has slept with Jamie. You know, that scene scared me because she is so disconnected from her own feelings and it was just kind of chilling actually when she you know, I slept with Jamie and I don't know how I should feel about it, and I'm numb and how Rory, I want to tell you about this and how should I feel about this? But I feel like that's a conversation that like teenage girls have, like you go to your friend, you need to confine

your friend. I thought it was pretty spot on, actually just kind of thought. Yes, I thought that it was very spot on. But Scott is right that Paris is unhinged essentially all the time, Like she this happened, and she's really trying to figure out how she feels about it, like this is what human beings do, but it happened to me, and I don't know how to feel about it?

Right him Right, We did have one of the best lines, though, so she so obviously Rory in Paris are on the phone, and then Paris come to the door and tells me she's love with Jamie, and Roy Saupp was something that said, yeah, okay, so then we have this scene is so important because we we we obviously knew she didn't sleep with Dane, she didn't sleep with Jess, even though we had are like weird, know you guys put a little bit of te It was Danielle's first time watching too, and I

had a weird moment. But and then Lora Lyne listening in and being so terrified and then so ecstatic and she raised her daughter right. I got the good kid. And do you know what actors hate the most is when they have to do those lines at the end of scenes. I have a great kid. You look at that and you go, oh no, I have to say that, and I have to make that work. That's the hardest job you have is to sell that line. She sold it beautifully. Oh God, she sold it beautiful. And it's

the hardest, the hardest thing to do. I feel myself right now getting emotional. I was so emotional watching it. I don't know why. Right from this moment until the end of the episode, I believe because Liza played that plays Paris so well. No, there's another reason. Can I can I expound? Yes, here's what I think it is, and this is what it is for me. This is

the experience I'm having with this show. Paris hasn't been around in a while, and I've been super critical of her right as a character, not as an actress, as a character. I missed her. She came back and I was like, Ah, Paul is right in the world and the Gilmour world, because she's back and she's she's you know, full Monty insulting everybody and being funny about it. These characters or Is grow on us. They are be they

become our friends. Hence this level of addiction, because these characters are so extreme and so unpredictable and so smart and so driven and so on maybe so much like people we know, all at the same time being so unlike anybody we've ever met. And that's hard to balance, and they do it so beautifully on the show with these characters, because they're all very reminiscent of people that we sort of know and have run into, but they're nothing like anybody we know at the same time. So

I missed them. I missed Richard. I missed the old Richard. I missed that I bulliant Richard. I missed Paris. I love seeing Paris rehabilitate herself. I love and as chilling as I thought that scene was. I love that she opened up to to Rory, and I love the breakdown, see all that stuff. I love these people. These are my friends now, I think. God, I think because even Max Max is back. I think when you're saying that, think you're so spot on. I missed Paris and Rory

getting along. Yes, I'm gonna like I know I always cry, but it's like that scene was so unbelievable and so beautiful. I think I missed them. I like their sort of always going head to head, but I missed those moments where because they were really becoming friends. Dare I say they are in a sense. They're not laying and Rory, but they are best friends in a way. And so it was. I mean, that scene just gutted me. I don't keep going, keep going, No, no, I want I

want to hear what you said. You don't know. It reminds me of a quote from one of the great directors or a couple of different great directors of all time, and they we're talking about what a great script is or what a great movie is, and you know, they simplify it down to you know, what a great film is or great television. You know what it is. It's a couple of moments between two people. That's it. That's

and the rest of it is not important. What gets it's important how they get there, and boy did they? What what a circuitous route it was to get to that moment. And the two three and a half, two and a half seasons. What are we in season three now? Yeah, three and two and a half seasons to get there, two and three quarters season to get there. But we got there, and how beautifully we got there. That was

a real moment between two people. Even though I don't think that Paris would have been so disheveled on television and in front of the school, I do think her reaction to not getting into Harvard and having slept with her high you know, she's in high school, he's in college. Having slept with this guy, that part, Oh, I think that would send anyone, especially Paris, just spiraling, like her saying, like I had sex, which is the most shocking thing ever,

and I didn't get into Harvard. No one would have ever thought that would be the what happened? I have I have a bone to pick, tell us first bone. Sorry, It's okay. There There can always be a bone. Okay, here's here's a potential bone, and you guys can talk me out of the bone yard after I after I picked this bone. Um, what would have the headmaster or even Richard or anybody who saw Paris and that state allowed her to go up on stage? I totally, I

totally agree with you. I think Rory would have said, you look a mess, what is going on? They all just let her. That would have never happened. Ever, I agree, And I also think Paris, the pair us we know, would not have donald to begin with. She would have never been late. Like it just started from that. Go ahead, sorry, no, I was going to say. And then like you would think that, you know, let's say she did storm the

stage and get up on there. They wouldn't let her continue for like as long as she was sitting there would have been like, all right, let's pause, let's get her off stage. And I thought, Laura Lie. There was a moment where I thought, oh, Lourea Lie is going to go up and not not you know, Lorea Lee would go up and get her, and then Rory would give the speech. The way it transpired was I loved. But yes, I think it's a fair bone depict because that no one's no. But it made out of school

like children. She wasn't exactly made for great TV. It was a moment, honestly, like between you know, her saying she's loved with Jamie and then her getting rejected, all within two scenes of each other, was like, damn, you feel you feel for her. You now feel what she's feeling, and like her showing up in those sweats and that's sweater which, by the way, I left her turnal necklace.

You were two of on this episode. Um, you know you you just feel for her, and I think that we're always so team Rory and now you're kind of feeling what Paris is going through. Well, yeah, and as soon as you see Paris walking down the hall, you go, oh, what the hell happened? What happened? So I started And that's that's good television because all of a sudden, you're like, you're fearful of what it could have been. You know what I thought. I thought that that Jamie guy either

dumped her her had done something horrible to it. And it was like, oh God, she needs either medical attention, or she needs she needs to go talk to a psychologist, or you know she she's in bad shape right away, and so you know you're thinking, as an audience, like what is going to happen? So the anticipation was, yes, so agree with you. You're like going a So normally when we watch, right, I take my notes and I'm

always doing this. I sat back. I don't remember what I was eating, but I sat back in bed, put my legal path to the side, and just watched and was like nervous, anxious edge in my seat, like what. It also just shows you, like, like going back to that they're actually really friends. It's not like Rory and Lane,

but they're friends. But when Rory you know, pulls her off stage and she kind of like talks her like you know, like Paris, like you know it's gonna be okay, you know, that just shows their friendship and like parents, I'm sorry, Rory can have two best friends in Paris is one of them? Yes, this like they were like I don't want to say sisters, but they were like sisters in the moment because she and it was like in that particular case, Rory Rory had it. Y's you know,

Rory's handling it with the speech. Rory's the together one and then you know, she just grabs her and likes her, and you don't get a minute of Rory being or is not mad at her, nor's not disappointed that he was concerned for her friend. Yeah. So so yeah, And it was on top of all of the anticipation and attention that that created. Uh, it was also very funny, totally. She was very funny and so we got some big

laughs out of it. But here's the thing I think, Um, you know, I think Rory because the Rory Paris friendship is odd and it seems like it's so unlikely and uh so, uh, you know, opposite ends of the spectrum. I don't think so. I think they're both outsiders in their own way. Obviously, Rory's an outside because she stars hollow and you know, she's got the mom that she does.

Paris is more on inside baseball with that crowd. But in that crowd, she's not accepted, is she she fear She has a reputation as being you know, obsessive, compulsive and studies all the time. But does she have friends cool or popular at all? But everyone knows her everybody right, She's notorious, right, So she's an outsider in her own way. So I think that's what makes those two come together. I so agree with you. And they both are at the top of their game because arguably they both are

the smartest. They both are the president, the vice president, they both got picked to do the speech. They both are the top. They're just going about it so differently. Can I share with you my all time favorite Richard Gilmour moment. It came in this scene because they when she was in the middle of her meltdown up there, they cut they cut to Richard and he was doing this. Ready, he's just doing this. He was like this, he went, he looked, his eyes were closed at this turn. No,

he was not asleep. He was like, I don't want to be here. This is horrible. Oh my god. Wait, oh no, it was hysterical. Wait, it was the best. It was the best choice I've seen an actor make in a situation like that that he wasn't he was asleep. Oh my god, Scott, I think you might be wrong because I am convinced he's think he was asleep. Yeah, is why he has no idea what happened, because there's

a moment later didn't know what happened. No, there's a moment later I thought I thought he was like he was sound asleep, because there's a moment later when he says to Lorela, Okay, that was great sleep. I think he got bored. How is working so much? Yeah, but it was It was just rory until Paris showed so prouple of lines. He was all excited to be there. He's been working so late, with the calls to Japan or whatever. I been taking care of the house and

take here. So it is my bone to pick, though, because right Richard would have never fallen asleep. I agree. It was my It's my it's my second. He was all excited and energized, and they sat down. She only said a couple of lines of speech, and he would have he would have been alerted that Paris was in some kind of trouble. He's seeing this girl up there was crazy. I think they did it. This is my gut,

and everybody can. Everybody can debate this, and I think they did it as comedic relief, probably because they didn't need it so intense. I totally agree. I thought it's a bone to pick for me. I don't Richard Gilmore would have never fallen asleep at that thing, and Richard Gilmore would have never been clueless. He would have never said to Lorala, well that was a great, great event

eight speech. Laurel I just goes along with it. It's like, no, he would have totally had wise words or yeah, saying at all because I thought it was weird. Oh my god, I'm sorry this episode still goes in the Hall of Fame because it's still agree It's still in my mind flawless. Look I'm gonna go I'm gonna go to my grave thinking Richard was not asleep and that he was just grimacing. I am fine with having a few flaws, even in a perfect episode. Okay, so we have a few more

things before we get to the end of this. The joke the coat lady said was epic. She's like, there's coats in there. Otherwise the staircase to the roof is on the right, and and they let it hang, you know what I mean, Like they gave us that moment. And then Laurel I says, oh my god, two years and someone finally cracked a joke that was just amazing. I have one more little bone to pick with Max. I will tell you this is a third bone. Yeah, I think I've had three and it's hard of one. Really,

I didn't love the line. Now, you guys can tell me I'm wrong, and maybe I'm being too like about I didn't love the line when he said, oh, it's hard to be a girl. I'm shut Max. He said, yeah, when they're in the coat room and it's hard. Right before they kiss, he says, because they're talking about what Rory and Paris are going through and all the things. You know, Obviously that was a moment. I just thought,

it's not about being a girl, Max. But I don't know, I might be being too you know whatever, I I can let it slide completely, but I did, right, I love that line. I loved the kiss though. I mean I was there for it. How do you feel, Scott about the kiss? Well, that explains it. I think you gotta you gotta keep that thing going. You gotta somehow, you know, you gotta keep it going. I think that that it's it's hard. Poor Max. I mean he didn't

have a chance. I mean, she's so attractive and wonderful, and obviously he could tell that she was that he had psychological advantage at this point between the two of them, Right, I mean she was eating out of his hand. Um. She was filled with regret, she was filled with she was still physical, she was still physically turned on by him because she talks about you look great, you look great, you look great, you look right where To me, it looked like he'd lost weight from the prior episodes and

didn't look as great. But he looked pretty much much the same and still great. Um. But yeah, I think it's hard to resist that, right, how do you resist that? And he never was over it? No, No, I think him coming in and we just we kind of knew something was going to happen, you know, freaking yeah, I know. I bring this up every episode and I hope no one gets annoyed. We always have this amazing scene, this huge crescendo, and then you think, you take a breath,

and you think, okay, it's over the episodes ending. Nope, Rory got the Big End Club. Yeah, three of them,

And that scene was like, oh my god. It was done so well, like because it wasn't like this, oh my god, look like you know you run in with like you know, from from the mail in the house, Like it was just so heartwarming because they were at the mailbox together and they didn't see one, but they saw three and you realize and I think Laura La even says everything you've worked for is now coming true and here we go and it was like whoa. That's when I just went Wow. This episode just did me in.

It was so good, so good. So let me ask you a few questions from our notes. So for everyone listening, we obviously we we we put work into this, so we obviously planned things ahead. So Scott had a few notes and I really want to share that with you guys. So my first question is, Um, we talked about how Laura Lie feels about Richard showing up for Rory, and I'd love to get your thoughts on that. I think she's it's just it's more proof positive that she's such

a mature woman, UM. And that she's accepted that she's not going to get much out of her parents. UM, So in return, why should she put so much in? But when it comes to her daughter, she does. She's she's a woman enough to a big enough person to appreciate the fact that Richard shows up and then Emily is going to show up and she's truly grateful for that and knows that she's no, she's no longer playing that Hey what about me? Card? You know, why aren't

you there for me? So it seems like she's moved on from it, and it's and it's nice to see. And I always love how Richard has a check because my grandpa did that every single Okay, So then you were going to tell us about the camera work during the Paris meltdown, crying the crying scene. There's a very difficult scenes and those were obviously real tears and uh stunningly deep performance from from Liza Um really heartbreaking and

really dead on and true. And and here's another thing, and I'm going to say it again, I think there were a lot of reasons, uh to nominate uh lead actors, guest actors, UH series regulars and and and recurring players, and that everybody got overlooked. And this is here's another here's another performance that got overlooked, you know what I'm saying. And maybe they thought there wasn't there wasn't enough of that kind of behavior from the Paris character. It was

like too much of this. But I mean, you cannot deny the skill level of these actors. I mean, it's just as good as it gets. So anyway, So I want to discuss how they how I think Jamie babbittt decided to shoot that. Yes, Paris crying scenes, Yes, yes we got some sidetracked. One thing that is so so incredibly difficult is to break down to that degree in front of a camera. That's hard to do. You need to have a skill set that's finally honed, um and

an instrument that's finally tuned yourself right. So, so to do that on a in front of a camera several different times from several different camera angles is daunting. Yes, yes, it's like, well, you gotta do it in the master shot. Then we're gonna, you know, take twenty minutes and set up this camera over here, so we catch your left profile and then the right profile. We're gonna set up another. And So when I think Jamie Babbitt did, I think she.

I definitely think she did. Is she shot Um, she did dual cameras over so she shot two cameras at the same time. It's hard to do it if it's cameras facing each other because then you see the other cameras, right, So, so it had to be angled in a certain way. So that, and it's always because I was in this situation yesterday on the show where I said, listen, this is a big scene and it's a highly emotional scene, and the DP had already taken care of he'd already read,

he'd already anticipated that. You know, I'm not going to make Scott do this time. I'm gonna he's gonna do it once or twice, and we're going to cover it. And so he designed a shot, a camera sequence, and a camera positioning that allowed me to do that. Thank you, Eric. Yea, it makes sense. That makes sense because that she could never I mean, I'm sure someone could, but I just feel like the reason that scene was so amazing is you're right, we probably got we probably watching the first time.

Second time she did it right. And I will say, like, I think if a girl forget the c span part, but a girl sleeps with her boyfriend and then doesn't get an to the college of her dreams, that is exactly what would happen crying on a stairwells stairwell with your best friend. It just felt like yep, and you're all confused and you don't know what the hell life has no meaning? What am I doing. And I think her thinking she didn't get into Harvard because she's loved

with him is really what a teenager would think. She definitely didn't get the credit for how good she was throughout the series, but in this episode, this episode was It was stunning. This episode was stunning. I cried. I cried, my favorite so far because it was the perfect perfect balance of um, emotional impact and humor. And that's what I want from it. I want to feel. I wanna you know, I don't necessarily want to tear up all over the place, but I want to feel for these characters,

and I want to have some chuckles, you know. I want to be delighted and surprised and moved. And it does all those things. It's beautiful episode, Absolutely beautiful episode. Bravo to Amy Sherman Pellatino. Bravo Jamie. Jamie Babbott, who we had a nick We had a nickname for Jamie bapp she She's like we called her take animick take. She did a lot of takes sometimes, you know, she did she did thirty takes script e too. Don't forget

she drift and take an take so so so. Jamie loved to do a lot of coverage, okay, And I think that's to her credit because I think the demands from the editors of that show, We're like, you know, you know the first episode you did, we didn't have enough. You didn't shoot enough coverage, and we didn't have enough stuff to to build a scene around. So just give us more than we need. And I think that was the the dictate coming from on high. Um. You know the Jess walk and talk before I pushed him into

the lake? That was a Jamie babbittt episode. Did we We did thirty takes of that? Oh my god, we did thirty two. I said that walk and talk before I pushed it. We did one or two takes of that. I think Malo told us too, But you did the other parts. Wow, yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's a great episode. It's just a great it's great show. So my notes are telling me there's there wasn't a lot in this

week that that sort of stood out. So the in the cold open, I asked myself what book Laurel I was reading at the top of this episode, and it's I'm with the Band to Tell All by Pamela de Bars. Remember, Rory referred to loyalize Pamela de Bars when z was hitting on her and Laurela out of water the book okay, number two, clown pillow in the scene when Rory and Paris are on the phone with Headmaster Charleston. So there you go. The best line, according to notes, is Roy's

dragging Paris off the stage after speech. Pack your chastity belt, go more, you're going to Harvard. Yeah, and Jamie did such a great job. And it's like directing is like it's knowing where to put the camera, and I think she put the camera in every best position in every single part of every scene. So I really saw her talent run amuck in this episode. Um So when you get that combined with the great script and the great acting, it's like, hello, perfect, perfect, perfect way to spend forty

minutes on net and not for nothing, female director. I like it. Oh she was. She was great. She's super smart and super soulful and she's just a wonderful talent. So bravo for the whole thing. Anyway, I guess that's it, right, Let's right. What's next week? Yeah? God, what's next week? God? I don't even know what is it? Next episode is the Tales A Tale of Pose and a Tale of Pose and Fire, Season three, episode at seven. Oh, I

know what I know this episode. I know this episode Tale of Pose as in Edgar, Allan, Poe and Fire. All right, everybody, we'll see you next week. Thanks every Thanks Tara, Thank you Amy. On my interrupting as I interrupt you, I'll work on interrupting instin I'm supposed to stop doing it. I'm working on who's telling you just stopped taking it, everybody? But also, really, the best Instagram

ever somebody wrote, because you know I read all the comments. Somebody, for the love of God, Amy, stop interrupting or something like that. I'll get so excited. I apologize because I am so much and I want to hear. I want to converse. I love I love the back and forth. We don't have to stop interrupting. Why Okay, alright, fine, okay, fine, I'll take the I'll take the heat on the I'll take the heat because now I'm saying I want the interrupting. So now, because we get so excited, we want to like,

but what about things? What about this? Al Right? We don't want to forget. We want to make our points, you know, I'll try and take a breath. Yeah. Thanks everybody, See you next time. Hey everybody, and don't forget follow us on Instagram at I Am all In podcast and email us at Gilmore at I heart radio dot com.

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