Interesting Hat (S1, E3 “Kill Me Now”)

We've had Junique Truesdale, as you recall, he played Michelle and uh and Rose Abdu played Gypsy as we all know, the lovely Gypsy. Don't we deal who we have today? Yet? No, I'm not No, I know. First, they want to know, you know what they want to know? What do they want to know? They want to know, like, what the heck are we? Oh? And we've got we've got the

the illustrious podcast producer Amy Sugarman. And we also have uh, Danielle Romo, another producer on the podcast who has never also, like me, has never seen an episode, So we're going to be experiencing her point of view as a non watcher who's been converted like me as a watcher. And and and I'm quickly becoming obsessed by the way, So how about the same here. I'm very much enjoying this

this show. So I'm sorry for all the people I made mad, but no, I really really love this show and I'm excited to follow along and really, you know, get into this and it's a great show. I can't believe how good it is it. Why didn't I watch? Why didn't have time? And we'll go why didn't I watch it? I mean when I was younger? Um? And then uh, and then we have our young gun here and Riley please pronounce your last name. So that's our

that's our team. That's our podcast, team of experts and amateurs of which I count myself wanted because like, I'm becoming this obsessed fan along with Danielle. I am so obsessed at this point because I've watched three episodes and I'm just hitting myself in the head with a hammer now, like why didn't you watch the show? And now I'm going to tell you why I didn't watch a show? You know why I didn't watch a show? Listen? Uh? And and here's uh. We've been getting plenty of emails

about this, like why hasn't he watched the show. It's not believable. He of course he didn't watched the show. No, I didn't, And do you know why? Because the shooting days on set are twelve to sixteen hours, sometimes longer. So when you're in that even three days a week, you don't have time to do anything else. You have time to sleep, and you have time to eat, and

you have time to maybe take a shower. Um, and then you're back at it again, and so over over time you develop and you develop very quickly uh a short term memory muscle, and it gets stronger and stronger and stronger because you got a flush the day's dialogue that you learn to make room for the new stuff. And there's a lot of dialogue, so it's it's just a function of clearing out and and learning new stuff and not really honestly knowing where you are in the

episode or in the entire series. So that's why the director is there. One of the one of the director's main functions on a TV series and on a film is to let the actor know where they are in the story, in the episode, and where they are in the story in the season and in the whole sort of uh uh overall story. So he's giving you a macro and a microp here at the same time. Because you sometimes they blow it, which we'll talk about today.

There's a mistake in this episode three really but anyway, so that's that's why I've never seen because it was never any time. And then also, if you work at the ice cream store to eat ice cream, if you if you make the sausage, do you want to eat it? You're you're smelling the sausage all day. This is the analogy I use. I hope it isn't off putting, but it's it's it's the best I can do for right now.

So um. And then we had a special We had a dialogue coach named George Bell, who they were gonna let go I think after season three or four, and I went into Amy and I said, I said, we have to have this guy. Without this guy, we're not going to be able to do this dialogue at the speed you want it because he comes in in the morning in the trailer. And the first thing they asked me when I get there is like, what do you want for breakfast? And then I say, where's George? Bring

him in? And George comes to your trailer and you run the scenes that you're going to do that day over and over and over and over and over again until you're just bulletproof and you can't possibly make a mistake. What was he good at? Like going fast with Yes, But first of all, he's a really good actor, so he understands the scene, he understands what it takes, and he's a great reader. He's a great scene partner to

be with. So I would love to have him on the show because he's such a great guy and he's a really good friend. Um. And but if you didn't have George Bell, you don't have that show. I mean, he was really really important and uh he helped everybody with their dialogue and with their speed and because you walk on that set and it seems things seem a lot faster on the set, and you know, you you

gotta know your stuff. So that was what it was all about for nine months when you're shooting, is knowing your lines and knowing them so cold they can't make a mistake, you know, trying to make a mistake and knowing them at that pace, and it's a very fast pace. So no, I did not have time to watch the show. I didn't have the strength, you know. It's like you need your sleep to recharging and and and flush out

all that stuff. So that's some things are harder for you to remember too, because you're using your short term memory and then you purged, so now going back, you're there. But it comes back pretty quickly when I see it and I go oh yeah wow. And a lot of times I'm watching and in these first couple of episodes, I don't have a lot of dialogue, and you know,

episode three, I'm just sort of interesting. Hat I get a couple of lines and gives give the gamp a couple of lines over there, you know, let's make them feel good. You did have the denim shirt though, you did have which was my favorite. It was my favorite shirt and they never used it again. I don't think denim on denim? Oh is this the only time? Maybe

maybe there was a second time. Maybe, And I would go to into Mayben and I who's who's the head wardrobe mistress and uh and just you know, just great at her job, And I said, what about the denim? I loved the denim. You know, It's like I'm and see I'm wearing it today. It's not in denim versus flannel pole maybe I like that idea. It was like it was like a flannel versus a denim, like you know, wrestle off, m M a thing and the denim lost, denim got knocked up. I liked the denim. I mean,

I wear the denim. It was a nice light denim with a dark denim. I thought it was it was. I thought it was gorgeous. Gorgeous denim. It's gorgeous. So anyway, so that's the explanation. Um, it's all short term memory. It's not you're you're in a fog on a set. A lot of times you don't know where you are in the story and if you hopefully you have. And we had great directors and this director on this one, Leonard spot Kid direct and he was great. He was just great at it, you know, and he grew up

in the business. How could he not be great. He learned from his dad, who was who was a brilliant guy who was also a multi hyphen it you know, the poetry, music. And Leonard Nimoy directed My Favorite Star Trek Star Trek four, like the director of this episode, and did he stand out as a particularly good director. They were all good. They were just good in different ways. You know that their personalities varied, so some people were a little more chatty and others were a little more reserved.

And some people like to shoot, you know, thirty takes of the master and drive everybody crazy. You know, there's didn't you know or just shoot twenty So but the show demanded that many takes because the editors wanted And I'm facing that right now with putting a music video together for a single I'm about to release, is that the editor doesn't have enough footage, so I'm gonna have to go down to the beach and shoot more footage

because there's not enough to cut two. And I thought, you know, the professional that I am, I would know that screwed him up. And they called me and got you're a pro, why didn't you give me enough footage or enough angle? So um anyway, so that's really why

they shoot so much. They just want a lot of options. Anyway, So you're on a set and you're an actor and all you should be thinking about is a scene and now in your dialogue at the pace because the only note we would really get from um directors is can you go a little faster, I said, three am, No, I can go faster in my car going home. But you really want to just faster, faster, faster, funn okay, And so you try, you really really try. And that's it.

That's that's or. Listen, you're here in this scene, and this is where we are in the story, and this is the pitch is this, and the tone is this, and and that's it. That's all that. That's all you get, which is all you really need. Um. So yeah, So no time to watch the episodes. Even if I was interested in even if I liked watching my own work, which I do not, I loathe it, I still wouldn't have had time to do it anyway. So there you go. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it. I hope

you enjoy the show. Well we're glad you didn't, because here we are now. Yes, exactly. It was the one thing, it was my one advantage ignorance leading to a podcast compete me good by the way, Thank you so much. Guys. All right, let's do it. I mean, listen, everybody, you are going to be thrilled with our next guest, very very very special guest, dear friend of mine, and and I think it's going to be a good way to apologize to everyone out there for all the screw up

so far. But we'll we'll figure it out anyway. We'll be back after this. Yeah. Hi, ladies and gentlemen. This is Scott Patterson. I am All In Podcast and we have a very very very special guest today joining us. And it's gonna make the fans very very happy because you you emailed us, you DMed us about this particular guest. Uh, and we're delivering him and you you're gonna know you. We're gonna we're gonna get into it in a couple of seconds here. But let me let me tell you

a little bit about this guy. Um. You know him for his role in Gilmore Girl, but he's several other television guests appearances along with playing Cragling in the Marvel films, Guardians of the Galaxies and Avengers. Uh, Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Sean gun. Sean was born in St. Louis, Missouri. Is the youngest of sex children. He graduated from DePaul

University's theater program the Goodman School. He's married to Natasha Hello Hello, Hello, v who is an American actress and film director, and his next project is starring as the Weasel in the Suicide Squad in theaters August six, Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the versatile Sean Gunn. Hello, John, Welcome to the podcast. There's no I'm used to the It's very nice to be here, Scott. It's uh, it's long overdue. It's nice, you know, it's it's good to see again. The last time, last time I saw it

was in Where were we, Charlotte? I honestly have no idea. I remember seeing you. It was a convention. Remember sitting. I remember like sitting, and I remember hanging out, But I have no idea what city that was. I was in Virginia. Charlotte sounds right. Charlotte sounds right? Was Charlotte, North Carolina? But it was that convention that was at the last convention we did. The thing about conventions is I've now done, don't I'm over fifty conventions, and I don't.

I can't. I can't place cities anymore. So I don't know, like so like I remember like details about being there, but I don't remember where we were. I remember I remember Berlin distinctively, I don't think you were there. Were you there? I remember Berlin because it was Berlin. I would love to go to Berlin. Actually it was great. Shout out to all the Berlin fans. It was so fun. That I'll be there at some point and we're starting

up again. I think I think I'm actually gonna start doing You know, there's a whole whatever a year and a half from all of the COVID nonsense. So um, I know you're working so on something now you can't really talk about it. That's fine. Yeah, we don't have to talk about that'll be. That'll be soon, although I do you know, I have Suicide Squad coming out in August, which is cool. So that's something. Although that's another that's another.

You know. Now I've I've I've been dipping my toe into doing this, like the c h G. I work, so I played this character. It's full c G. I so full, Like they put me in the in the the mo caps two and everything you see the character do is something that I actually did. So it's it's it's it's me. But it's a weird thing. Being a factor is a weird thing. Yeah, yeah, but it's going to be exciting being in films this large U with such a massive fan base, um and doing that high

tech kind of stuff. It's gotta be thrilling. Though, Yeah, yeah, it's cool. It's um. It was weird. I was just sort of going over and it's weird how how things work out. So my brother James, you know, is a is a writer director, and we were both in around two thousand twelve. We both we're at this like low point in our careers where or we thought we had had it made a decade earlier, you know, like like I'm on a TV show. He was like writing movies.

He wrote like a couple of hit movies, and and then one thing after another happened, and after like after Gilmore Girls, I just like things dried up. I did this other TV show that went away right away, and I did this like big commercial campaign that was weird, and and then I just kind of had a couple of years of crickets and uh and like, oh, I thought I thought everyone was paying attention to this like magnificent work I was doing, and yet nobody knows. It

seems like nobody knows who I am. And uh, and things were, you know, things were really small and and uh. And the same thing was going on with my brother and he was like, oh gosh, I'm a director, but I can't get It's like movies are still polarized now that there's either like these huge technical movies for these tiny movies that are impossible to get funding for. And he's like, what am I gonna do? I don't want to direct videos. I don't want to write for video games.

And then like Guardians came and and sort of I won't say fell into his lap because he works, you know, so hard to get that job. But when he got that job, he's like, Okay, here's something I can bring you on board to come do and uh. And then it was like that that was the runway for the next you know, for what's been the last decade of my career. But that's but that's my attorney told me after Gilmore, you're gonna get two more shots. And that's how if you get three, you get three, you get

three strikes. So if you're on a if you're on a hit series or if it's a mild hit, you're gonna get another offer to do another series. And if that doesn't go, you get one more hopefully and then but three and you're out. So the same thing happened to me with aliens in America that one a year, and then the event which one a year as well, and that was it. So but exactly so by about two thousand and eleven, two thousand and twelve, I was like,

I was crappy. The attorneys dark man, just very very experienced would have been stead of saying, you get three shots in your ound, he said, play the long game, Scott, You've got you know, like it's he could go anyway and anyway, probably they probably had a meeting saying, well, you know, how long is Paterson gonna bring in the bucks? You know? So I don't know, give him give him the three shots speech and maybe a little to get more jobs. I don't know, um, but no, that's traditionally

how he explained it. Historically. This is because he's you know, an old you know, older lawyer at the time, and he was a legend and a partner in a huge firm. The whole thing is that this is old school guys. I got my I've been with my manager for like twenty years and and he he like made his he like he got his chops, like he used to work for Susan Smith, who was a who was it was since passed, you know, but like but like you know, represented like actors like you know, trying Dennis and you know,

like and awesome, and I love that. I love having some sort of connection to that. I like to think of myself as as a throwback as an actor, you know, and so like I like having some connection to that past. It's um, so let's get into uh, let's get into how what were you doing right before you got Gilmore? You know what's funny about Gilmore is that I never thought that that was going to be the show that like people wouldn't know me like I I was, you know, um,

I was a character actor. I gone to I gone to acting school and and and and felt you know, certain ways about hexing school, but then came out, came out to l A and I started like booking really well. Like I learned that I had pretty good comic timing and I understood sitcoms really well. So like I was, I booked a really high rate, and I was like I was arrogant, and I was like I got this, you know, like I'm like people want me to do their shows. And I did give More Girls and it

was just a one. It was a coach star. It wasn't even guest. Sorry that a co star as the DSL installer Gilmore Girls. Um, but I was booking other things at the time and doing other shows. And then I remember I got the call. They're like, hey, Gilmore Girls, book you wants to book you again. And I was like, what I was a you know, I was a DSL installar.

It doesn't make sense. Now I've since learned the story. Um, you know, over the years, I've since learned from Amy that like essentially what happened was they did another they did another episode where there was another delivery guy and they saw some actors and Amy said to Jamie Rodowski and ken Mark Casey, are are wonderful tracting directors. It's like, no, no no, find me a guy like that guy who played the I want a guy like that and uh

and Jamie blessed her heart. You know, I will always I will always do any favor that Jamie Rodoski asked of me, said said to Amy, why don't you just hire that same guy again? Like and and and Amy was like, huh, that's an interesting idea. And but you didn't have a name in that episode. But you didn't have a name in that episode, Good Laurel. I said, go to Unique, you know, to Michelle, go with that guy and deliver the swan. There's a guy over there.

She didn't call him mix, call you Kirk. What was that about? That was the second The second episode was yeah, it was the swan delivery. So the first episode I did was the DSL where they called me Mick, which Amy forgot that she gave me a name, right, So you were supposed to be a different guy. I didn't. I didn't know, and at that point in my career, I didn't ask. I didn't want to ever do anything to rock the boat, to not to to like upset the apple card at the job that I was doing.

Very basic question. You know, if I I would have said, hey, is this the same guy that I played in the first episode. There's a different guy. But I'm like, I'm just happy to have all it takes. You don't want to hire him? Oh god, so funny? Yeah, So I and and and then you know, and then it kind of became this like running gag. And you know, I know that that Amy's dad was a character actor who would who would work multiple times on the same show, and uh, and she thought that gag was kind of funny.

And so I took a lot of work away from a lot of actors because anytime they would need a role that was like, normally this would be a day player where we see a new guy who's like the clerk in the in the beauty shop or like working in the flood flowers or whatever, We're just gonna hire this same guy and he'll come back and he'll just do it over and over and over again. But the funny thing for me is that, like the whole time, I thought, this gag is gonna wear thin and every

show I do is going to be my last. Like I thought that the whole the entire first season of Gilmore Girls. I honestly thought, every show I do is gonna be the last time I do this show. And uh, and I thought, but it's fine. I'm killing it. I'm like doing you know, I'm doing Third Rock from the Sun and I'm doing like I'm like booking other like rolls,

and I'm like, I'm gonna be great. I'm gonna land my my big role on something else and then I'll be fine, And then I think it was around it was there's an episode of gil More Girls the the Basket. It's called a tisket. A tasket is the name of the episode, and it's where they they um everybody in the town like makes a basket and they bid on the baskets and Suki makes this amazing basket for Jackson, but uh, he's They get into a fight and so

in defiance, he doesn't fit on the basket. Kirk bits on the basket and gets it, and then they and then they make up. Jackson has to go back and like tell and and like try to like gid for like try to buy back the back. It's whatever, gid

More Girls fans, you know what I'm talking about. And that was that episode always sticks out to me because that was the episode that when I did it, I was like, Oh, I'm gonna be on this show for a long time, you know, Like they gave my like my character had a little bit of a backstory in that episode. He was And it's it's crazy to look back and be like I was like twenty episodes in.

I probably should have known before then, but but but I was like, oh, yeah, this is what this is what I'm doing now, I'm playing this character on this show. And then you know, and then you know how the rest want you were there? Well, yeah, I mean you did a hundred and thirty seven episodes. You were, you know, an integral part of this thing, for God's sake, a series regular. Um yeah, how do you even explain the character of Kirk? Well, I'm I'm fortunate that I I

read this great piece in The Atlantic. Um I should be. I should shout out to the writer's name, but I don't remember her name the top of my head. But it explained it way better than I ever could. Um where they were. She talked about Kirk as a man child, And you know, I always looked at him as being a guy who who who like obeyed the rules at all costs, um, but would would also would also duck

them when necessary. Like I don't I don't know how I thought of it, but but when you think of Kurt as like a nine year old and a grown man's body, it all adds up. You know. It's like when you think of him as a it's like, oh, this is like a little kid who both he's like he'll he'll lot if he needs to, but not in a bad way, only because maybe he thinks he's not

gonna get caught. And uh and yeah, I think Kirk is um, you know the girl man and list alone in his mother's basement, Like what do you very entrepreneurial? Uh yeah, it works everything like he does him all the time, you know, like whatever you expected me, like, I will do it. And also I have to do it or I'll get in trouble. You know, I don't know. I'm sure all this could write, I could say a

thing or two. So how do you seriously, I mean how playing all those different characters and all those hysterically funny setups, I mean they really set you up? Um, how do you keep a straight face through all of it? Especially the hot dog? I mean, how on earth? Okay, I have the hot dog. I remember I said recently to Amy that I I was like, I wore a hot dog suit on the show. And I like to think that the character wore a metaphorical hot dog. Um like that sto he is in his essence, he's just

the guy who wears the hot dog suit. Like you just know that you look at them and You're like, someday, I'm gonna see this guy in a hot talk suit. Um, I I don't know, man. You know how playing comedy you don't. You're not trying to be funny when you do comedy, you know, it's like you play this, you play the truth of it, and the words carry you. So the writing on the show was great. And Kirk's never you know, Kirk's never trying to be funny, never like never trying to be fun um. And so I

just like, I just play that. I'd like to try to think about what he's thinking about, you know. Um, but got some of those things. Who are some of your biggest influences as an actor? Did you watch a lot of Buster Keaton? Did you watch a lot of

the Yes, the physical comedians. Yeah, it's funny you say that, because yes, Buster Keaton is the first person that I would say, and particularly for Kirk, for Kurt the actors that I think of all the time, or Buster Keaton and a lesser known actor named Eddie Bracken who was

a Preston Sturgis guy. He was in Hail the Conquering Hero and Miracle Morgan's Creek and he was just this weird and and I honestly, I think in some ways, I think the way I booked the role was that I was a fan of those types of movies and stuff. I think way back to when I was the DSL installer. I read that scene and I knew like front Page and his Girl Friday and and like bringing up Baby and those old like film comedy like the Power Hawks,

presson certain movies. And I read that and I'm like, oh, this is this is that, this is like that's how this plays, is like it's like those comedies. And I think that that's what got me there. Did Amy confirm that? I mean, did you have those conversations with Amy about those films and those characters influencing Kirt No, not until years many many many years later, Like so at the time, and and I love it Amy so much, like she's

she's such an amazing talent and has such an amazing brain. Um. But it was such great synergy to me for like actor and writer that that she confirmed what I thought by writing for me, you know what I mean. I never had to ask her, Hey, is this what you're thinking? Like I would. Then I would get the next scene that she would write and it would confirm what I was thinking, you know what I mean, So like I just knew from how she wrote the character that like, yeah,

I'm on the right track. I'm doing it right, um, which is the greatest Man, I missed, I missed it. I like, I I feel like at the time to when Gilmore Girls was like like it was you know, it was awesome and I love doing it, But I was also an actor in my twenties and like was you know how it is You're wondering what's the next thing? It's like, oh, this is great, but what's the next thing?

I'm like, I now feel like I'm chasing that dragon a little bit of like, oh, man, being on a being on a show where you have a writer who understands what your strengths are, just writing to those strengths, Like, how's it gonna better than that? Right? Yeah? Well, you know your brother, I think the same kind of brain and the same kind of talent um because that he does. I've been really lucky in that way. Yeah. Those are

those are extraordinarily well drawn characters and very funny films. Uh, And I think you know, the humor in those films and the lightness of those films that carries them. Um yeah, um, And very few directors have that ability, very few writers have that ability. Yeah. Give me the top three Kirk moments. I mean, was there one specific moment with Kirk that really stands out here? And if it was, what was it? And is there a top three? I can do this? I won't, Um, I won't. I won't say the one

that I already mentioned. But for me personally, that basket scene that I talked about earlier with Jackson is the one that sticks out more than any other because it was the one that that solidified what I understand about the character. But it's not the ones that I love the I'll count them down. UM. I loved um. I love playing Jesus and the Festival of Living Art. It was so fun and I don't know, I don't even remember. I don't remember what your interaction was with that episode,

but it was a beast man. It was like and if I'm if I'm not incorrect. Um. The only Emmy that that show ever one was makeup on that on that episode, which was well deserved, by the way, although you know, awards are stupid, but I don't know, maybe

we should have want some more emmies but whatever. Um. But like that Festival of Living Art episode, it was just so fun and it was so mammoth and it was such a like like and I loved the whole thing of Kirk, just like getting into character and being like, hey man, I'm method, I'm like Jesus and I'm running with this. Oh man, it's so much fun. Um. I would also say probably probably the Cat Kirk episode Kirk

gets a cat and names him Kirk. Um. I love cats and have always had I've had I've had casts as a grown man, and I always wonder if any and Dan knew that and thought that that was funny and we're kind of like making fun of me on that episode. Um, But that one definitely sticks out. But the best one you were part of, the best episode ever to me was when I played Teva and Fiddler

on the Roof with the nine year olds. So it's a bunch of nine year olds and he and Kurd, which Kirk's in his element, as I said, it's with nine year olds, like I'm comfortable here, this is my decent, my people, you know. And then there's that scene where I sing do you Love Me? With that little Girl. And that's my favorite scene in the history of of the show where where you and Luke and Lorela are like watching each other across the stage from the wings

of the stage. Um, and it's like this beautiful moment. It's like a really romantic and touching moment between you guys, well while literally between you, the most absurd thing you could possibly imagine it's happening, which is a grown man singing do you Love Me? To a nine year old girl and playing it and we're playing it straight. I remember I remember asking the Great Hermann about that scene and being like, and I usually know what to do, and I'm not sure how to play this, like how

to like, am I am I good? Should I do it? Should I should go for the laugh? Or should I do it as well as possible? And he's like and and he gave, of course the perfect advice, which is like, just do it, just go for it, just like sing sing the song you know, um, which to me like I'm feeling something very deep there. But it's hilarious when you watch it, it's it's ridiculous, um. And there's all to me, that's like the alchemy of the show comes

together and there's like perfect synergy in that scene. Um. Anyway, and there you are again offering the ridiculous absurdity of life and the first kiss and you run through naked with a pillow covering. Oh yeah, I mean there you were? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, right, the first kiss and I run through naked. Oh man? Um, alright, So here's a here's a question. Did Kirk love Laura La? Did you love her? You know, there's a there's an episode early on where Kirk asked Laura Lae out on a date.

And I thought it was I thought it was gonna be a big episode for me. Not not because not because I thought something was gonna happen, but I thought that, like, oh, this will be cool. The audience will like feel for Kirk and like it'll be like heartbreaking and kind of sweet. And I looked back on it and it's kind of creepy. And that's the point, right, It's kind of the point. Yeah, No, I think I mean, you know, I honestly think it's that it's more messed up than him loving her. I

think that he wants her approval. It's like it's like, I don't know, you get into that psychological stuff, but like he wants lorea lie to say he's a good boy. You know, sorry, sorry to go there, but I mean not like the way you want a dog right right right right, you know, like not anything more in the farious than that. I don't think you know exactly what

we want you to say. Hey, great job, Like that was really you know, and they could have learned that, Like Luke could have learned that probably, you know, like if you really wanted to get Kirk away from him from hanging out the dinner and just be like, Kirk, man, you you look great. You're really killing it. You're like and I don't I think Kirk would be like, oh my gosh, wow, that's awesome. Like that's that's how you would That's how you would win that guy over. I think,

um oh god uh um. So how did Kirk right, how did Kirk feel about Luke? Oh? I do think Kirk loved Luke. I mean he's the ultimate. Luke is the ultimate man. So like like Luke is the is the ideal of what a man should be, and so like, you know, I do think that that again, it's like kurts that that Luke's approval would be the the best thing he could he could possibly get. Um, you know, I don't know. I have to like to go back

and watch some of that stuff. What is the ultimate Kirk job that you gave yourself in an entrepreneur, you started companies, you you tried many different things. What what what was the what was your favorite uh job that you did? Well, there's a difference between what's my favorite and what's the ultimate? Because my favorite was the one that was easy for me. So like I loved I loved announcing the hockey game because it's like you just sit and make jokes for you know, for like two days.

He just like sitting. He was like, sit down with a microphone and and and and do comedy. But um, you know, I think honestly that like that. I gotta go back to the hot dog suit. It's like wearing a hot dog suit and passing. That's the ultimate. That's the true ultimate Kirk job. It's like passing out flyers for a hot dog plays. Wearing a hot dog suit. It's like brought unexpected joy on the set all day, even though you were sweating your brains out. That was heavy, man.

It was like they didn't even have pads in it. It was like two pieces of plywood that just rested on my shoulders holding that whole thing up. That was one of the worst. I had some bad days on that set, and that was one of the worst. I also did that I was in the the plexiglass box that was suspended over the street where they were like, you know, it takes a forklift to get you in and out of that thing. So between setups, do you

mind just staying in there? And like so the guys on a cigarette break, he doesn't want to come back, and yeah, total him, like I planned him just sitting in that box. I'd love a photo. I'd love a photo of that of me of on the Warner Brothers lot, of that plexiglass box in the middle of the night. It's like that, you know, that's sad looking man sitting hovering above the glamour. Show. Business must go on. It's mostly that and then once a year they, if you're lucky,

they send a limo to take you somewhere. Um uh So, here's here's a question. What do you remember because mine was a very distinctive memory, But what do you remember about your first day on set? Oh gosh, um, my first day on set. Wow, I don't remember a whole lot from that because I thought I was in and out. I thought I was like, you know, I'm just like coming in, I'm gonna do my thing, I'm gonna leave. I'll never see any of these people ever again, you know. Um and uh and so I remember I I was.

I was not nervous because I was getting a little bit nervous if I if I'm not a percent on the lines. But um, but I worked the audition so many times that like I already knew the lines backwards and forwards, and so like I remember, Um, I remember like wanting to do it fast and like go home. I don't. It's like it's that's the least sexy story you can possibly imagine. But like the thing that the thing that's sticks out for my first day is like,

I'm gonna do this fast. Everybody's gonna be super impressed by the awesome job that I do, and I'm gonna go home and I'm never going to see these people again. And you did. That was in l A. That wasn't in Toronto, was it? Yeah? I know that was in l A. So it was. I was on the first episode after the pilot. So you guys shot the pilot and uh, and then they and then I was on

the and I was on the first episode. In a funny story, my agent at the time UM wanted me to pass on the because because it was a co star, not a guest star, and I had just done a couple of guest stars. So like I was there, like

we're really trying to establish you as a guy. And and you know, for the audience, if you don't know the difference, it's like a co star, you know, is maybe is gonna be one day, maybe has a lot line or two, you know, whereas a guest star is more like an actual supporting guest star for the for the for the episode. You know, big difference, money, difference in day, number of days and all that kind of stuff. And I just come off doing like a couple of

guest stars on sitcoms. And so when the audition came in, my agent was like, we recommend that you pass on this because we want to establish you as a as a guest star caliber guy and that you're not going lower than that. You know, they're doing their job. It

makes sense. But my my manager at the time, many years ago, Gordon was had been friends with Mark Casey in Chicago and said, and Mars the cast that was one of the cast directors of the show, and said, mar is an old friend, and um, I you know your agents don't want you to do it, but I think it would be cool to like introduce your solved all these people and the like get it done. And

I did. Fortunately, I did the thing that any actor I would recommend now should do, which is I said, send me the scene and let me read it, and if I want to do it, then i'll If I don't, if it looks like something that would be cool, fun And I read the scene, I'm like, this seems funny. It's like it's good, you know, like so like of course I'll go in on the audition. Isn't that weird?

It's weird how that stuff works out, like how you go back and like how does because we because I was a guest star on the pilot, I wasn't a series regular, and that was that was a quick, easy audition, and I was like the second of the day. I had a third one. I was I was running late, and I was like, let's get through it. And got

the job. Shot at we kind of figured it was just really a heat check with Lauren, you know, because the pilots opens in the diner, it ends in the diner, and so we figured, okay, so this is kind of a thing of the show and they're looking to the right guy. So they offered two episodes and we said no,

which caused me great stress. And then they came back with four and you know, my manager recommended no. I said, come on, it's four guests, our episodes, and she was She goes, I'm gonna call again balogn and get you a contract, and I said, okay, and she did it. She did it well. She she she got me a six year deal. Wow. Yeah. And then which which which shows you, first of all, it's smart, you know that, you know, like sometimes your rest No, they understand what's

going on, and they knew that. They like like they knew this is this is the guy we want to do this. But it's a money But it's like, do they have the money? So let's let's keep them coming back on the cheap because that's all we really have in the kiddie. And at that point, correct me if I'm run. So that point in your career, you're like you you did it like a famous episode of Seinfeldt right with the sponge, and like, what's going on for

you in your career at that point? Yeah, I mean just no, just auditioning really well, like like killing it and everything and always being always being the bridesmaid and like and he killed it. We're just gonna go another way, you know, and it's like he's he's our choice, but the director is going to go with the friend of a friend and you know it's always that Um yeah, no, No,

I had nothing nothing really, I mean I did. I did a Will and Grace, I did a Seinfeld I was kind of like that kind of go to guy. I did. I did a Fired Up with Sharon Lawrence. I had a recurring on that, which was great. Um, so I was developing a little bit of a reputation in the business. Is like a reliable sort of guy to come on and you know, um do my thing. And but no, no, not no series stuff, no deals,

no studio deals, no network deals. You know, it wasn't It was just like that was back in the day when there would be like like you meet people was like who are like, oh I have it? You know, I don't know if you had you have friends who like like I had friends who didn't work, but we're like under yeah, I had they had holding deals deals, and they used to give them. They used to give them out, and then when the writers went on strike, they wiped all those deals out and they stopped giving them.

Those were those And we got a holding deal after year seven, negotiating in year six to go into year seven, and we had a holding deal in case the series got canceled. And thank god we did that. I had a eight manager, I really did. Um. So we got it. We we we got a holding deal, which got me on Aliens in America because they had to either pay me or put me on a series, and they didn't want to pay me to do nothing. Right did they pay you to cittain weight? So I was on this

this this wonderful, wonderfully written series. UM comedy series. Um um. But anyway, so here's here's a question. Who from the cast? Okay, have you remained closest too? Okay? Yeah, like like uh oh okay, well, um, that's not counting John Cabrera who played Brian on the show, who was in one of the members of the band. Um. But Cabrera was my friend before he did the show. Um didn't get the job through me, by the way, it was coincidental, but

he ended up. But like we were. We were roommates in college, so he's one of my He's like he was a year behind me in college. We're close friends. We've been like, you know, the best of friends for for oh my god, how old am I almost thirty years? UM, so that he doesn't count because we were already friends. Uh. But but Kikos the one I see the most. I I just saw her doing. Um she was she came to my wedding and um and uh and I just saw her doing We were doing a reading for this

cool thing that she's working on. I won't say anymore about that, but like, um, and we're talking, I see her. I I see her when I can you know, um, And honestly, she's like the only like I see you. You know, like we see that we've seen each other. Ericann mentions in you and I'll texts from time to time about about various things and like whatever I saw

you years ago. The coolest thing to me has been that, like I became friends with Amy and Dan after the show, Like when we were on it, I was, I was, I was scared of I was. I was afraid of Amy, you know. Um, and you know, and she was my boss, and uh, like I all I wanted I wanted to please her, like I wanted her. I think that I was doing a good job and continue to employ me and like and like I thought she was great and everything. Um,

and I liked her, I would, you know. But but it wasn't until after the show was over really that we became friends as like actual human beings, I think. Um. And so now when I, um, I'll you know, anytime I go to New York, I'll I will try, you know to have dinner with a mean dan, you know, every time, and we you know, we'll email from time

to time. And I also, like look back now as a as a forty seven year old man, what I didn't understands it as in my twenties, um, just knowing that like man, she was like she was like a thirty our role like in her mid thirties, a female dealing with all these dudes you think that they're the smartest people in the room and trying to like like get trying to sway her off of what her vision is and she was like, no, I know better than you do how this stuff works. And she like imposed

her will on the show. That's the reason that it's good, and that's the reason that people talk about it now is because because you had a creator at the top who knew exactly, uh what the f she was doing. I don't know if I can curse on this show, but I won't. Um, you knew exactly what she was doing and uh and and looking back now, I have, like I have just unlimited respect for what she accomplished in making the show work. Um. Yeah, she stood her

ground right away. She heels in it. But to go back to the question you asked about about people on the show, like, I don't really see anybody you know, Like that's one of the cool things about doing a year in the Life was like seeing Lauren and Alexis again who I love and will love forever, or like, you know, seeing Mike Winners again, who like I always like, like anytime I ever do an interview about going girls and people ask me who I like working with the

best or whatever, I just feel obligated to bring up Mike Winners because of how hard his job was and how like that dude would just have pages and pages and pages of exposition and played anlike relatively unlikable character that people that's sort of like, oh this guy again,

you know. And man, you want to talk about being a pro and being an old school like knowing how show business works and coming in and knowing your stuff and like hitting your mark and and like knocking the ball out of the park every like you know, every or or or not even you know, as a baseball guy, like just hitting clean doubles every time, you know, Like like, I just I love it. I miss I miss all of the I miss everybody really, um, but I don't see anybody. I know. Me and uh Melissa were in

Sydney at the same time. Oh you know, I just we just spoke to Yunique and he's over there with her doing God's Favorite Idiot. It's a new yea, I guess an HBO thing or something. Yeah, but I haven't awesome awesome, I uh, but I haven't seen her and forever. I'd love to ask her if she's been able to get work since skillmore girls send it eye. It's a shame what's happened here? Yeah, such a talented girl being

overlooked and it's just someone she'll find a job. Someone she will, she will we we wait a minute, were you with us that night? We went to Groundlings to see her and they're like, season one did you go? Because we went as a cast. I went on my own. I went and saw her Groundlings, um like by myself one night and she's like, hey, I'm doing the show. I'm like okay, and like I and I went and saw her performing Groundlings Founding. Yeah. I mean, I mean it was a stag. It's not a surprise, like you

know now like oh yeah, of course she was amazing. No, but I mean I knew she was good because she was in the Groundles and you know, they don't mess around over there, and they don't bring you in unless they think you have tremendous upside uh and tremen into skills. But I wasn't prepared for that. I mean that was like after that show a my stomach herd and then I wanted to call Lauren Michaels and say, why isn't this girl on SNL. You know, this is like somebody

who can create the content and then acted beautifully. I mean, these characters are gloriously funny. My god. Anyway, Yeah, I was not surprised at all when her star started rising. I mean I wasn't surprised. Okay, I got him stare here.

I wasn't surprised, but I was a little surprised. I was a surprised, like only only because of culture, only because of like the world that we lived in, right, Like, like I wasn't surprised that she had a fantastic career because she's genius, but like her becoming a movie star is freaking awesome, like like it's such a great thing that, like we didn't have movie stars like Melissa McCarthy when I was growing up, and the world was worse for it, you know what I mean? Um, And I really mean that.

And so like it's like if you had said to me, if you would ask me, um, you know when whatever in the middle of Gilmer Girls, if you would ask me and season five like like which one of your castmates is going to be a massive movie star? Um, I would not have called it correctly, And I'm very glad that I would have been wrong. I called I called unique. Truesdale has been a huge disappointment to me. No kidding. I thought that Unique was most likely to

be found dead mcgutter somewhere. No, No, he's still on top of stuff. Man, that guy's like on top of things. No, he's losing it. He's first of all, he's looking older. He's looking he looks a full ten years older than he is. He's gotta like to dish it out. He's gotta tell you back. He'll be fine. Oh my god, but I would have. Actually, I actually did call Melissa, you know, I did call from everyone in the cast.

I said that girl is going to break out because of her skill set, because of her comedic skill set, and on top of the fact that she is just naturally funny, like in an interview. Oh, I mean, I mean I did interviews with her. I mean I did. I did an interview for early On with a ESPN and we're talking about boxing, and she was hysterical, and she she thought I was laughing at her. She got offended him, like, what are you talking about? Every every

everything out of your mouth is like hysterically funny. Oh yeah, she's a killer. I mean you know, yeah, she's a killer. She's she's undernovel. Yeah, she's like she's like Sally Struthers level,

like funny, just like just talking to her. You know, those are my man, some of some of my favorite nights, Like my favorite memories I think from the entire run of the show would be we'd be doing those um those scenes in the town hall, you know, and it would be hot, and you gotta do everybody's coverage and they're like fourteen people on the scene, you know, And it would be on a Friday, so they knew they could go as late as they want and we'd up.

It would be like okay, when the sun like hopefully when the sun comes up, will wrap you know. And at some point Liz Torres and Sally Struthers would get punch drunk and start singing old show tunes and just you know, Sally would back in a you know, an extra would be sitting on her lap like randomly or like they just would start holding court. And and I wish I had a video of of one or two of those moments, because man, I missed that. They saved

us so many times they saved you know. That was the thing about working uh In in Burbank in August in a hundred and ten hundred and fifteen degrees doing

those town hall meetings. Man, those were hot days. And every time I was in one of those scenes, and you're in there all day because you know, you gotta get covered all those people, like you said, but oh my god, it was so hot in those tents and they would tent it off right to create nighttime, so at six am it was tinted off to look like nighttime, and it just it was just like being inside of

it was like a sauna. It was a steam room, or not a sauna, but it was a steam room, a big steam room, and you could just couldn't escape. They pumped in all kinds of a c with these giant tubes, but they would break down the generators breakdown from you know, working all day, and then they'd have to replace it. But oh my god, it was hot and every time I was in there, so we were all sweating because we're in winter closed to most of

the time, we're in winter close it's Connecticut. It's you know, it's usually winter or fall, and that's when we did a lot of the town meetings. Um. I just kept thinking of all the people that have to work in the hot sun for scut wages, and here I am, you know, pissing and moaning about being sweaty and hot and winter closed, but I'm gonna hit TV show again.

It was that, it was that sense of community that we all had because everybody was sweating their brains out and all you know, you know, I felt sorry for the most are they are the hair and makeup department, because they would have to come in there all the time and wipe us down and dab us down. They couldn't wipe you know, they'd have to dab us because the makeup. They screw up the makeup if they wiped right.

So they have to come in there and they'd have their little you know, those little fans, those tiny little fans. They look like little propellers and they just hold them up to your face and you're like, oh, thank you, I love you, thank you, what you marry me? Thank you? Don't stop? You know what I mean? I mean. It was just it was it was hot. Have I have I said it was hot in there? Yeah, it was.

It was extraordinarily hot. Um anyway, it's a it's a heck of a place to be wearing flannel and spitting out dialogue while the sweat is flying off you had, Ben, I'll tell you what we we We definitely earned our money on those days, that's for sure. Maybe not so much on other days, but on those days, we earned

our money. I was working on Think Raise something. It was like it was like, oh man, this show is such a beast, like like we're trying to do five pages a day for whatever weeks or months or whatever. And I'm like, okay, I did a show where we averaged over ten pages a day every single day for seven years, and those pages really constituted twenty pages on a normal script because there was twice as much black ink. People didn't Yeah, like people, people, anybody works who works

in show business. You tell them you did over ten pages a day every day, It's like wait, what that doesn't that impossible? Yeah. I went on Aliens in American and then the event set and I was like, you know, people are like, gosh, we have a two page or today, what are we going to get through it? And said, are you kidding me? I do big movies now, And it's like, you know, we got a two and a half page scene, so luckily we have two full days to shoot it. It's like, okay, Jesus Oh my goodness,

h are you ready for rapid fire? You want to do some rapid fire? Yeah, give me some rapid fire, Come on, strapping man ready? All right? How do you take your coffee? But quick coffee? Yeah? Coffee? How do you take it? Lots of cold milk? No sugar? Can you smell snow? No? Are you team Logan Jess or team Dean Logan? Wow? That's shocking. Really, I thought that might stop you in your tracks. Stopped in my trash

right now. Yeah, I think that I think that I think that Logan okay, I think that I think that Dean like fetishized Rory a little bit, like treated her like an object. I think that Jess belittled her a little bit, like would be like a little bit condescending at times. And I think that Logan, for Hall, is false as a human being, treated her as an equal, um as better than the other two did? Okay? Best memory of Gilmore girl the one I just said, late

late nights, getting punched wrong, wanting to go home. Everybody's there, We're all like dicking around, looping, getting uh favorite Friday night dinner meal in real life? Now and well, let's both let's do Emily's house because you were invited to a couple of dinners. Weren't sure it was it just the one I went to one in the in the reboot, what was the what was the meal I the most discussing. I ain't the most disgusting thing they do that that they ever had on the show, and in I guess

I don't know that A boy I do too. Actually, UM, show your binge watching right now, hymn still okay. Cast membery texted most recently, I think we know the answer to that. Well, if that's you. But before that, before that, it's kicko okay, okay, UM tell us about dealing with

the Swans. Here's what I remember about that episode is is that I didn't know if I was the same character that I was that I was playing in the first episode that I did, and trying to just fake my way through it, never asking am I the same character, just like trying to like like maybe if I keep my mouth shut, I'll figure it out, you know, and uh, and doing it and sort of playing it like I think I ultimately did play it as though he was

sort of the same character. And then I did another episode where I'm like, oh, no, I think I have to change this up a little bit. I have a question about the film by Kirk. Did you ever get offered to do a film based on those films by Kirks or write and direct or produce a film any on any level because of a film by Kirk? And that whole uh series of so it's where you were making these No, And when you phrased the question like that, I'm a little annoyed now that I haven't you got

no offers? No offers? What am I? What do I look like? You know? But I do so I uh that that one comes up a lot, and I should like those films, like doing the like gosh, that was so much fun, Oh my god, absolutely most pleasurable Kirk stuff was was was those films? Those films were hey, And you didn't ask this question, but my favorite scene that you and I did together was in was was Oh, man, there's a couple. There's a couple that really there's two

that's that stick out a lot. But one is the date is Kirk's first date with Lulu, and he's like all nervous about it, and we have this scene where where he goes aside to Luke and it's like when we talk about Duck from from Pretty and Pink and uh, and like I love doing that scene. And I also love doing the scene on the episode that ends with me running naked where I'm talking the night terror scene where I'm like, can you please help me with these

with these night terrorists? Like those are both really some of my some of the best scenes, some of my most fun scenes. I don't recall they were very tender that they were tender scenes, weren't they between kind of thing they were kind of was like, Okay, I'm gonna throw this guy a bone, and like he wasn't, so you know, he see Luke had a little bit of a soft spot. Oh god, this guy's lost. Oh man. Yeah wow yeah, great stuff, great stuff. Um, a pleasure.

Thank you for the time. Anytime, my friend. We will yeah, we will be rad in your cage again. Uh. And and again, I'm really sorry about what happened with Una. I love you. I really did. Everybody. I'm not gonna he's like my favorite person to give a hard time because he gives it back double yeah. Uh alright, anyway, but enjoy your Sunday. Yeah, you do. All the best to you. Guys and your wife and all the best and good luck on the rest of the shoot and

we'll talk to you soon. Pal. Okay, alright, alright you too. Bye? Okay? So, wow, uh is he not great? Is this guy not just filled with smarts and and perspective? And what a great guy? Wow? I love talking to him. Guess what, guys, we talked for so long because we just lost track of the time. When Sean Gunn enters a room, something happens. There's a vortex, there's us, there's a vacuum, something something good, and you lose a sense of time. Um, and we ran really

really long. So we're gonna make second episode out of it. So what do you think of that? I think that's a good yeah, because we still we haven't even started talking about kill Me Now. So okay, how should we do this? All Right, So we're gonna end this episode and then in like a day or two days maybe when you're listening to this, it will be there. Now we'll have another episode recapping kill Me Now. So, so

we went so long, we're gonna drop. We're gonna we're gonna drop another episode a couple of days after this one, recapping kill me now, okay, because we just went so long with Sean. You can talk. I could talk to that guy and I have. I've been at the hotel bar and talking to him for hours. So fascinating guy. Um, and just look out for that second episode. And if you guys subscribe now okay, you'll get an alert when that second episode is going to drop. Okay, So get on,

get on that subscribe button. Hey, everybody, and don't forget follow us on Instagram at I Am all In podcast and email us at Gilmore at I heart radio dot com. Oh you gil More fans. If you're looking for the best cup of coffee in the world, go to my website for my company scott ep dot com s C O T. T y P dot com, scott ep dot com Grade one Specialty Coffee