I Failed Him (S3 E21 "Here Comes the Son”)

It was just it was just it wasn't light and as fun as I you know, I like these episodes to be. But again, Amy tends to have a different writing style than her husband, and so when Amy is writing directing, she's controlling everything, and you know you're gonna get one of these really heavy episodes. And it was filled with great lines and humor and all that stuff, but the but the you know, but the but the narratives and the themes, which it was just very I

was exhausted after watching this episode. And she obviously wrote it because it was intended to be the launching pad for a Jess rob ST's Sherylyn Fenn spinoff, right, And that's when I thought was kind of peculiar about it, because what am I doing in Venice, California with rob estis Milo and Cheryl and Fenn. Not that that isn't a great triple right there. Okay, all all great, but

it just it just felt foreign. It just felt like, you know, and then we go back to stars Hollow and a door opening in Emily's house and it's like, what what's happening? You know? So so yeah, it was a little for me, although I enjoyed the California stuff, but um, anyway, that's my initial impression. I loved the episode. I was fully engaged, actually, but it was a little it was a little stressful for me. Yeah. I've only seen this episode twice. I saw it when it ran

the first time, you know, on television. I watched it once on the DVDs, and I've never watched it again because I remember not being into it, almost like this never became a thing. I don't need to rewatch this one, because this just didn't become a thing. This third time, though, I liked it the best of all the three times I've ever watched it. I tried to watch it like in a different way, and I liked it much more.

I didn't like it when I watched it originally because it felt like a different show, Like, why am I watching this right now? And you know what, I'm being insufferably rude, and I apologize. I failed to introduce everybody. What the heck is wrong with me? Daniel Romo Welcome, Hello, Hello, Amy Sugarman, Hello, And we're joined also by the one and only Traveling Parasus who who shows up? When I mean it's just traveling you guys. I have like four

weeks in a row. I think I'm going to be out of town coming up for Yeah, but was the time with Matt Zukri the best? I mean Matt and Yeah, we're still like glowing from the Mad Sure experience. I mean, it's like the guy you know, I want to interview him every week. Forgot I'm not gonna lie to you. I went back and watched like a couple episodes. Well, no, I think I mentioned it last week. But I went back and watched the revival just because I want to see him in it. Oh my god, I did the

same thing. I didn't want to doable, but I snuck ahead. I cheated, and I went to I wanted to see Matt's first appearance. Oh my god, wait, Amy, I went to see that clip and really, funny enough, my friend's husband is in the background of that episode and he's currently on a c W show, so I need to like text her save that when we get there. Save. That's that's that's called being zuk read. That means you break the rules. You've been zok red, You've been you.

It's not being Gilmoard anymore. It's being zook read. He forces you to break the rules and cheat and go ahead and watch the episodes when you're not. Must make that a thing. You've been zook read, which just means you have gotten hard eyes hard Uh. Anyway, I am all in podcast one eleven Productions. iHeart Radio and here we are kick off. What is this episode twenty one

twenty one Here Comes the Sun? Go ahead? Daniel takes away. Alright, So, as Scott just said, Season three, episode twenty one, Here Comes the Sun air date May fifteen, two thousand three, and the synopsis is Rory is busy with finals, and she has an insanely busy schedule of things to get done before a graduation, and we find out through her yearbook signatures that she is the valedictorian of her class.

Laura and Emily have another fight fight. When Laura Lae picks up Rory from her house, we get to meet Miss Selene, who is dressing Emily and Richard for Rory's graduation. Paris was accepted to three colleges, Yale, Princeton, and Columbia, and Laura La bonded with her at the very end of the year. Meanwhile, three thousand miles away, just visits his dad Jimmy, in Venice, California and asked to stay for a while because he has nothing left in Stars Hollow.

So thank you, Danielle. You know, I just read off the top and then we'll take it from the beginning, but I just want to get this in um and just just a comment on what you were saying, Amy, Yeah, it felt like another show when we went to California, with people trying to talk like they were in Gilmore Girls. Yeah, and it didn't feel like Gilmore. It had gilmore Esque qualities like Masal does, like Bunheads did, but it did

feel like you're like watching a different show. Also, note it's here comes the Sun, but for people listening that can't read it, it's s o n get it. Here comes the Sun. Yeah, just for those listening and not so anyway, Amy, take us takes from the top of this and we'll we'll do chronological and in my memory because I hadn't seen it in you know, fifteen years, maybe eighteen years whenever the DVDs for this season came out. In my memory, I wasn't sure that Lorra Lye and

Rory were in it at all. I was like, is this just a full like Jess robsd Sherlyn Fenn it should have been in my opinion, I feel like going back stars hollow kind of threw me off. M But you know, Lorela I was light in this episode, and I really liked her in this episode because she wasn't so manic and she wasn't so stressed out all the time stuff for that one scene in in her parents house and Emily and Richard's house, which and she was

justifiably kind of offended. Yeah, but I really liked her in this because she was a little calmer um and I just sort of celebrating her daughter and feeling great about that in every scene pretty much. So that was a nice, nice touch. Anyway, take us all right, So we stay in Weston's, which I thought was interesting. Why weren't we at the diner? But we were at Weston's. It's so funny because when they started at Weston's, I was like, are Luke and Lorela in the fight? Because

why are they at Westons? Like? I had no idea why they weren't at Luke's. I could only come up with to honor fran because like and passed away, but Weston's is still open. I don't know. So they're talking about the trip to Europe, so that's important. Uh. Lorrel has curly hair and is wearing the piece shirt, which I liked. And then basically Lane comes in to talk about her brochure she's got for college, and that's sort of the gist of where we're at. There's two parks,

one for guys, one for girls. Yeah, Roryes are like two parks, one for boys. My big question there was why Weston's. Um, Yeah, let's hopefully then it was. But it was a good scene. It was definitely good. It was a good opening scene. So then the credits roll and we realize, okay, special guest starre rob Esties, so we know, okay, he's back, and I think we even see Sherilyn Fenn's name in the credits, so we then still are at Lower Lies or so, so we're still

with Lower Lys, so we're still in Stars Hollows. But we see Laura Lee in the leopard dress with the cute sweater. She's trying to be very quiet making the coffee, which I was like, why is she trying to be so quiet? And then Rory is studying and just she's got so much to do before graduation. So that's sort of the gist. So we learned. One other tidbit is that she's going to see Emily, her grandma, to talk

about what Emily is going to wear the graduation. And then we see Luke in the doorway and I actually was startled by that. It was like, no, what's he doing there? So that's sort of the setup. And then she goes out and realizes because Luke tells her just as gone, Yeah, I like that scene. I like that scene a lot. I liked it. And he actually carried her over to the other side of the house, but he got visit, you know, he actually touched her, and it was also a new angle of the porch. We

haven't seen that much right, right, right. But I like that scene. I like that it was great and it was and it showed his his um, you know, him feeling really like a big failure and he acknowledge that. I thought that was a very poignant moment in this yes so not yes. So. Not only has he come to tell Laura Lie because he's worried about Rory, he then really kind of says, you know, I failed him, and I do know what you're talking about. I even wrote a note the arm touch, but it was more

it was more like significant. He moved her and she didn't mind it. You know, it was like he moved her whole body over around there because he was so concerned that Rory didn't you know, he's protecting Rory. He didn't want her to hear this. So so so far, what do you think of the episode? Just put these

two scenes before we go to Santa Monica, Venice. I think there's a big void there without Jess and I'm you know, I'm wondering what's happening, And you know, without Jess there, that really does take away a lot from from the proceedings. So I was very curious about what was gonna unfold. And pretty pretty quickly we get to him getting off the bus, right right, is that the next little portion there exactly, that's exactly right. So Danielle,

did you immediately know he's in California? Um, like once he got off the bus. Absolutely, but like, yeah, the Beach Boys music gave it away. No, it was literally like, hello, that's Venice beach right, just growing up here, like you know that's Venice. Within a second, coming soon, there's a very significant shot scene on scene shot on the Santa Monica Pierre. So he gets off, he's in Venice. Uh, Santa Monica area. The Beach Boys must have cost a pretty penny to get that good Yeah, and uh, he's

it's very iconic with him and his Jess. Look the leather jacket jacket on the beach with the girls cart wheeling, and you're immediately like fish out of water. Yeah, like like take the jacket off. You've got to be sweating under their and a leather jacket standing on the beach in Venice. I mean, for that's sake, it's already nine myself right now, just so hot. Okay, he's that cool? Right,

So then we quickly go back again. So there's a lot of that throughout this episode of like California Stars, Hollow California Stars, also back and forth. Can I make one note that I noticed right off the bat? And then it pays off even a little bit later, like right when Jess gets off the bus, there's just dogs and I'm like, oh, I don't think we've seen dogs on set yet, at least not for a while. And

I was like interesting. And then fast forward to the scene, which we'll talk about a little bit, I was like, why are there so many dogs in California? I make sure they're all over the US. So we go back to the Gilmore's and we the significant thing is we learned she grabs the letter out of the mailbox, and we learned that Rory has been denied i'd financial aid because of the seventy dollars. So that's sort of that piece.

And then we're immediately back in Venice and we see Jess going to four to two whatever mystery street and this house. How he knew where to go, I'm not totally sure. Do you think, um I was actually thinking about this? Do you think that he actually looked at his license? Because remember he left his wallet right I don't because the last episode, But why would he have

not freaked out? He just gives the wallet. If he saw the name, if he looked at it enough to see the address and knew that was his dad, He's not going to say something immediately. That's why I was like, how do you know the address? These are? This is also it could be you know, does he know did he know his dad's name? Like, I don't know. Back then, there was like yellow books, you know what I mean, you can just like go through people, you know, find

Jimmy Mariano. Alright, I live true the Yellow Pages. It wouldn't be in the Yellow Pages because that was where businesses were. It would have been in the White Pages. Yeah, it probably could have been listed. So you know, I I found all of these scenes particularly heartbreaking. Yeah, it was difficult for me to watch it personally. Uh uh no, I don't want you and you know all of that. So I thought Sherylyn Fenn was great. She really was. She was. She's just great. I mean she played the

heck out of that part. Man. I agree, And did you not see a little of Oh it kind of does make sense why she was considered to be lower Lie oh, without questions, You're like, oh, I get it. Yeah, yeah, she's sort of okay, Yeah, you're apparently was first choice. She was first choice, I believe you. Now. I know people are going to murder me because I want to say a spoiler, but obviously Amy Sherman Palladino loves Sherylyn Fenn because this is not the only role Sherylyn Fenn

plays on Gilmore Girls. Really really, Yes, she played my ex? Yeah? Yeah? Or was that Mason Amick? No, I'm pretty sure she is. You know, I may be mistaken. I think Mason Amock may have been the first choice for the role of Loyal. Oh why I always thought it was Sherlyn Fenn. We need to fact check that. Yeah, let's fact check it because because Marylyn comes back, so we won't ruin it.

But I'm sure SHERYLN. Fenn comes back and plays another character, Daniel, just turn your mute for a second, the mother of all Right, I mean, I love for someone to check, but sure she plays Sasha in one. She does, and then she plays you know who? Correct? Yes, I just looked it, so and I'm pretty sure she was a front runner to You're good Daniels. Sorry, poor daniel is

giving thank you. I feel like I'm in family feud where they say to answers like and I mean like a sound like welcome back to the So what did you think immediately, Danielle to of Sherylyn Fentn What were your initial Sasha? I think she's cool. I like her character a lot. Um. I thought the whole storyline is interesting because she has the daughter, and yet Jimmy didn't really say much about Jess, you know, like and she

confronts him about it and she's like angry. Um, she obviously wants to be married because she kind of like did that little dig at him, you know. Um. I think she's cool. I think she's super like strong, independent, cool person. That was my thoughts. Yeah, Scott, Yeah, a great character. I wish they had her come back more

and more and more as that character. Maybe she visited just they got Jimmy and Jess back to stars Hollow so that she could come back with her daughter, you know, because she's so great, you know, and they're also great, like get it out of Venice, and I know, I know they were setting up the pilot and the spinoff and all that stuff, But why not bring her back? Yeah? Did anybody else think Sherylyn Fenn is so good that

almost rob Estes became secondary? I agree, Like he was so good in the previous episode and he's so important here, but she really stood out to me, and she was very Gilmore. Yeah, it's because she wore the pants and that's the great way to describe it, Like she definitely, she definitely wore the pants in that relationship, right right, right, is why I thought the characterization of of the Rob the Rob best Is character the Jimmy, I don't know if that was I don't know if it could have

been better. That's right, because it doesn't work as well in this But so why not write him as a guy who's super laid back and chill and and just like, you know, just a lover and a peace nick and the whole thing, not this you know, agitated sort of. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Rob Bestis is to me much better in the episode before this one. This one is really Sherilyn Fens episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And everything was Gilmurray, her her mannerisms, her way, the

house is Gilmurray. The colors are bright, the clowns of the clown the literal clown dolls. I wanted to mention that there were so many, and I'm like, there is a shrine of clown dolls. I'm like, that puts the pillow to shame totally. The quirkiness of the daughter being in the cupboard or the other you know, she's always

hidden reading her books, which I thought very rory. And then we the dogs and the cats and all the books in Jimmy's room, the books and the records, and You're just like, Okay, there's a lot to unpack here. What do you think was wrong with Jimmy? Like that he just got his act together five years ago and he's still kind of nervous and agitated and and schmucky. And I mean, how do you talk that way to your son? No, I don't want you here. I don't want to be a father. That's why I went I

went away seventeen. I mean, this is just like you're sticking a knife in your in your kid's heart again and again and again. And I just thought, man, this is this is hard to hear, and it's hard to want. No prize from what we know of Liz up till now too, So um, I don't know. I was so thrown off by how the character of Jimmy was written, and I just kept rewriting him in my head every time he came on screen and said, he's got to be a different guy because he's got it's got to

be the opposite of what this is. It can't be close, you know, you know what I'm saying. Make him completely different so that those lines come out easier. You're not wrong, because we all can talk about the elephant in the room. This did not become a show, which we'll talk about at the end, but this does not become a show, and so obviously there were things that did not work. Either the network didn't think they worked or somebody didn't think they worked, because this did not become a spinoff.

So anyway, we Danielle, you you go, you look like you're yeah. I had like a very interesting um like I found a very interesting parallel in this episode. I feel like there's a lot of similarities between Jimmy and Luke in the sense that they have their own um

restaurant type thing that they're in charge of. However, they're showing that they're very similar in their work and what they do and their work ethic, because when we saw Jimmy at um Dante's Inferno, like he was like literally like very invested in his work, different than the kind of guy we usually see. But then outside of work you see the massive difference between Luke and Jimmy. But I feel like they almost did that on purpose, Like

they're very similar people but very very different. And I thought that was like a really interesting kind of parallel between the two characters. Did to Scott, did you did you notice that? Um? Gosh, yeah, I don't know that. I saw a lot of similarities there, um just from a work perspective, like they you know, I mean, but how but we haven't We just saw him in that one quick scene with a pickle jar. But don't you think it's a conscious choice spiced by people writers, amy whoever?

That Jimmy also has a restaurant. I felt like that had to be a choice that was made intentionally, very intentionally. Maybe. I mean, I don't know. I can't get inside their head. Man, they're blowing them man to sit here and drink my wine. See, that's the kind of character I wanted Jimmy to do to be. Do you like Jimmy from what you know from this, I do not. I wouldn't. I don't want to spend time with him. He's unhinged. He's he's he's shaking in his in his inside of his body. He's

just quaking all the time. What about Sasha, It's like he's in withdrawal all the time. So maybe he is. Maybe that's the character. I don't know, But uh, Sasha, who Sasha. That's Oh, she's brilliant. I mean, it was a brilliant character. Brilliant. I wanted I just wanted Jimmy to be a hippie. I just wanted to be like a real, like a throwback hippie. Not I didn't want to hate him. I'm kind of I'm kind of tired

of hating people on the show. You know. It's like I like, reserve that for Emily or sometimes Richard and sometimes Tricky. I mean, that's part of the family takes care of, you know. And but the thing is, I think it's probably ingenious because it makes Jess seems so much more like right that he's got this total schmuck

of a father, I mean, what a schmuck. And and and now Jess is looking now we're rooting for him and now we're behind him a d. So it is probably you have to assume if this was to be launching pad for a show, it can't just be Jimmy like I love you, I'm sorry I left you seventeen years eighteen years ago. Come on in, let's all be the Brady Bunch. There has to be like, as if this was going to be a show, obviously the conflict

between Jimmy and Jess would have been major. Yeah, and Amy, you were saying, like what happened within the last five years to make Jimmy kind of shift a little bit? Maybe it is Sasha. Maybe Sasha came into his life and was like I think Scott posed that good question. Yeah, Scott, sorry, but but like one thing I found interesting is that I or I think we would have gotten the Jimmy that you're talking about, Luke Luke, Scott that was bound

to happen once. I mean, there's three seasons, twenty one episodes, Scott, I feel like that was great. Um, I feel like what you were saying that you wanted him to be this like laid back. Oh sorry, dude, Like I can't do this. I think he would have had that if Sasha wasn't like, you need to talk to Jess and you need to do this now, Like I'm pissed, you know, Like I feel like if he didn't have that external motivator, he wouldn't have done that, and he would have been like, sorry, dude,

like we don't have room. Can I throw something out to you, Scott and see what you think? Amy Sherman Palladino. Obviously it's undeniable. She writes strong women, right, I mean, Laura lie that even on bun Heads, those are strong women, masal strong women. She always writes strong women. I wonder if the problem for this spinoff was that Sherilyn Fenn

she's writing perfectly, and she also can write Jess. We know that, but maybe it's Jimmy that just didn't seem to be enough for a whole show, because maybe she just wasn't like because really, like we all said, she's the episode of Cherylyn Fenn, So maybe the network was like, there's no Jimmy Jess. So we're at Senior Palooza and there's cute always carrying boxes and Rory's on the phone with Grandma, and I think this is where lore La is trying to sell the tickets to the yacht party.

So let's talk about that and then we'll go back and we'll learn more about what we can figure out on the my load slash Jess Pilot. So what did you think back at the school, you know, the Paris scene with lower La, essentially the hug, remember that. I thought it was funny, you know it was it was straight up comedy, and uh, you know, Paris needed it, and Paris was being Paris and lorel I was just

so happy. She didn't care about getting rejected. She's like, come on, you know, she was in such a good mood because her daughter was accepted in val Victorian hold and and I just wanted to give her a little mom love because she needs it. And it was a good scene. She doesn't have that, like the hug. I don't think she ever gets a hug like that, right, And my favorite is when I was like, you can release your fists. It was good advice Loria gave her

about college, saying you pick where you want to go. Yeah, she was She's a great she's a great mom. I mean, she really displayed her she was enjoying the fruits of her labor. In this episode, and she she proved to be just a spectacular mother. So it was yeah, and then we just see that there's still a little is when you watch people celebrate her building towards a little drama with Emily, because we can see Rory on the phone with her trying to figure out this outfit and

kind of saying, I gotta go over there. So we're setting up that and that there's prominent use of cell phones now. Oh yeah, and also Rory has makeup on in this episode. I like specifically put that down. She looks way more um mature, like she was wearing lipstick, she had some blush on. I was like, oh, I haven't seen Rory with makeup on like this. I don't know, I wrote it down. I noticed that. Yeah, okay, so we're gonna go back to l A, to the Santa

Monica Pire. And interestingly, I just realized we haven't even seen Jimmy yet. We're this far into the episode and we've only seen Cherylyn Fenn. So the more I think about it, the more I feel like this would have been the Sherylyn Fenn Show. But anyway, so we go back. Clearly we're on the Santa Monica Pire looked amazing. She's there doing the walk and talk and she knows everybody in town. We kind of learned that right away. It felt very Gilmoury. And then we get to Dante's Inferno

and the pickle situation. Yeah, they were in a real pickle. Didn't really understand what they were talking about. But you know, I guess the label was a little off and the letters where the font was a little off. It just stood out to me. Here this is where I really noticed what Danielle said. He's got this diner I called it, and I thought, God, that's got to be on purpose. Yeah. God, it just didn't fit in with gil Moore Girls at all,

did it? It was? Oh? I mean that was my problem with it the first two times I'd seen it. It was better for me this time. On the third watch. It was less jarring. But I remember being like, I'm not watching Gilmore Girls, but I think it's some of Milo's best work. I really really pulled me in. He really really really pulled me in with this because he was so hurt and he was so lost, and he was so confused, and I just loved him in this episode. I I just fell in love with him again in

this episode. So I'm like, you know, I'm I'm all there for for just now hoping that he God, I mean just I mean getting thrown out by his father. He didn't even show him, he just shows up and his father's rejecting him again. I mean, the poor kid. You know, he's he's he's in a tough spot. You know, my natural protective instincts, you know, just me, Scott was really just man. Why I was just fired up? Are you,

Scott regretting Luke? Not that you can regret it, but how are you feeling about the fact that Luke had to tell him if you got to go? Then if you're not. He did fail him. He did fail him, and I and I do feel bad. And I know that Luke feels bad and he should feel bad. He did fail him because he he's with a young kid. It's you know, you've got to pick your moments to

be that rigid and that stern. You know that, Like I said in the last podcast, why isn't there a world where where you can sit somebody down and really talk to them and really support them and really love them instead of all of this this has got to be my way garbage, and you know, and all this and and and and my god, I just I don't know how anybody, especially a kid that vulnerable, that's smart, that's sensitive and that troubled, how is he's not going

to respond well to that? You know you, I mean, they're gonna make mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake, the only and I and I agreed with Sasha, right, it's like, you gotta love these people. Man, you gotta love him, and you gotta hug him, and you gotta be patient with him, and they're gonna screw up, and you've got to just factor that into the equation and alter your behavior. But Luke again, like Luke is not the guy to raise or to be there for this kid, don't.

I won't go as far to say Luke failed him, But I'm not sure Luke made the right call. I don't know, Daniel, what we're gonna say. I know you're gonna, yeah, I agree with you. I think I don't think he failed him. And I actually do think Luke is what Jess needed. Like I do think that he needs somebody that's not going to enable him. And also he needs somebody that's gonna put him in this place a little bit.

And that's what Luke was doing. And so I do think he needed that guidance and he needed that discipline. I just feel like at that point, Jess wasn't willing to see that, And that's not necessarily a dig on Luke, just I think not um uh. Emotionally and from like a maturity standpoint, Jess wasn't able to He didn't want it enough on his own. But why couldn't Luke show him his heart? Why couldn't Luke show Jess he did

by letting him stay with him. I understand that and trying to like he's more doing it like it's his duty, it's his job as the uncle, as opposed to I think what's Scott's saying, like from his heart? You know what we're getting. We're getting at um A lot of men's inability to open up their hearts and let their heart pour out. They they think that that is weakness as opposed to what it really is real strength and trust. Right, So why can't why can't he sit down? Why can't

Luke be emotional with Jess? Is he afraid Jess will perceive that his weakness. No, I think it. Luke has a real hard time with that. No, I know why Luke can't do it, but it's like, this gets to the issue of why men can't communicate as well as women can, and why there's maybe I mean, I don't want to go off on a tangent here, but I

wanted to see a softer Luke. I wanted to see a Luke that it was more supportive and gentle with that boy and and loving and open up his heart, Because wouldn't that have been powerful instead of all this like hey, I'm the boss and and um and what I say goes and you went against it and you're gone. You broke my rules and you're gone. Yeah. Okay, So that's that's a predictable character. That's a predictable character trait.

We all knew that was coming. We all saw it coming a mile away, and you know Jess was gonna screw up and Luke was going to toss him out. But wouldn't the most moving scene would have been Luke opening up his heart to that kid and showing him how it affected him. Like imagine Luke in tears. Yeah, I agree, you like shattered? Yeah, Like I'm a kid. I'm dying for you here, man, and I think would right,

I think that's gonna be more effective going forward. I support that, you know, And don't you feel for Jess. He's been rejected by his mom, taken in by his uncle, but send my sort of I don't know, I don't use the order rejected, but like firm hand and then it blew up. And now he's being rejected by his dad a second time. His dad left him and now essentially his dad and this element sort of would have been an interesting show trying to sort of navigate all that,

But yeah, I don't know. I think it's an amazing isn't amazing how Jess has just sort of taken over the narrative. That's that's where our hearts are now, right, Not so much with Rory. Rory is going to be successful. We're like, yeah, she's put the hard work. We're not so much with anybody else. We're engaged with this Jess dilemma. What's going to happen to Jess? Jess, Jess? And And you know, I think I think it just shows you

why Milo is such a star. Yeah, you know, he he commands that kind of attention right because of his skill set. So yeah, you're right. He was so good in this episode. And I think it's significant that he said I didn't come here to bust your balls. He's throwing it out there right away that he's like, that's not what this is about. To relive the seventeen years you were gone, and he's basically we haven't gotten there yet, but he says like I have nowhere else to go.

M m. Yeah. That was the hard part because Jimmy was talking about how much of his screw up he is and like you don't want to be near me, and Jess was like, no, I'm the one that doesn't have anything, and that's when that's when it like he's been like playing cool guy. I know what I'm doing, like you know, the whole time. And apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Was really yeah, interesting, and I'm

glad Luke was hard on Jimmy. That's the guy that deserves it, that's right, that's the guy that's like, get your act together. You're in your forties for God's sake, you know what I mean. I agree with you, But Jess was the one that needed soft heart. He needed a heart. Yeah, because that's what he hasn't had. And there's there's there's a great quote going around now, um well it's been going around for a long time, but there was a quote says, you want to save the world,

go home and love your family and mother. It's a attributed to mother choices. So I just I just wanted to put that out there for the podcast audience because I know you'll appreciate it, and I think Luke could benefit from that. That would have been an interesting way to tell the story that if Luke, even if he'd been that way up till now that gruff sort of rules, if he would have just totally changed and realized, like, hey, we're in a mess. Here, let's take a breath, let's hug,

let's solve this. So here's maybe a theory, Okay, just popped into my little head. Uh maybe this pilot idea spinoff was doomed from the get go because here we are, uh, loving a show that is deeply entrenched in family values. It's all about family values or the lack they're not really the lack of Arah, but families trying to come

together and work it out. And here we have this this seminal scene in this episode and a show when the audience is all about family values and they love watching the show and repeat every single day of their lives because they agree that family values matter the most. And here we have a father who's going to be a lead and a pilot who's telling his son, you don't want to be near me. I don't want to

be near you. I mean, it's just like the worst thing you could say in a scene to a young It's very different than the conflict that lore Line and Emily have. Absolutely yeah, I mean, it was just it was just depraved almost well. And I also don't understand obviously Sasha is a great mom to that little girl in the cupboard, and you get the vibe that Jimmy is a good yeah bake stepfather because they're not married. So but but but I'm sorry interrupt, but I want

I wanted to finish my point. It's like, how are you trying to hook the Gilmore audience with a character like that that that doesn't want to be around his own son when your whole audience is about family families you want them to migrate over this pilot. But I think it's because of Jess, like you've seen him through all of this, and and you know, a lot of people are a team Jess. For I think this reason.

It's that you feel for him. You want him to succeed, and he just he keeps failing, and you want to just keep rooting for him. And I think it's more following, Jess than I understand what you're saying, But I think it's more following just than like the family dynamic. Oh, I see. But I think Scott's point is, and I don't want to speak for Scott, you say, he's saying that wasn't enough for these Gilmore or even like whoever makes these decisions, that's not enough, that this was too

much of a pivot essentially from what we know and love. Yeah, and we don't know Sherilyn Fenn's character enough yet to give her a shot, you know what I mean. We like her, but we don't know anything yet. Yeah. I mean, did you ever see anything like that in Gilmore Girls exception with you know, Emily and Richard, Yeah, yeah, right,

right right, but they never it's different. It's different. Yeah, Well, okay, speaking of So we go back now to the Gilmore's and we're this is where we meet miss Selene and obviously that Alex Borstein. So they brought her back, you know, the harp player, So they brought her back for this role. She must have got a break from a family guy, which I thought she was a bit over the top, but I still laughed at the scenes. So Richard and Emily, everyone's trying on close and Emily looked so pretty in

this scene. I was like, she didn't. Yeah, I was like, oh my gosh, she is. That's no grandma. So we're sort of going back and forth. So we're sort of getting to that, and then we're going back to Chilton and the girls are handing out the yearbooks and tearing out the page that they don't like their photo in, you know. So we've kind of got that going on. And then this is where the natually was. This is where the hug is poor Brad, and that's his only

photo in the years book. Then they just cut off his little he wasn't at school for like half the years, so we got one photo. Guy. So lord, okay, So we're jumping around. So then we go back to Jimmy and Sasha's and this is where Jimmy's brought Jess home. And he sort of has to go into the kitchen to talk to Sasha, and this is where we find out, like, so Sasha is like sitting on the counter drinking a beer.

And this is really where Sasha says, like, I guess we're just roomies because Jimmy didn't tell her that he had gone to Stars Hollow to talk to jess a. Right, the same deceptive behavior that we see now has landed him in this position in his life at this late stage. Right and also plot hole, Jimmy obviously talked to Liz, because how would Jimmy know if he has not been communicating with them that Jess is in stars Hollow with you, Luke. He obviously hadn't find that out from Liz. Maybe how

many did? He's not just gonna show up where the uncle lives, right, But I can deal with it, m hm. So I don't know Sherylyn Fenn there, I get it. But it was a little harsh and it was a little awkward with just there all this, It was a

lot of awkward for me. I would have liked to have seen that pilot spin off with Cherylyn Fenn and Milo and just get he just fired Robert no, if he's going to be that extremely out of it and so um incapable, I mean, I don't know that we want to watch a man that age who was so um challenge challenged by uh day to day life, you know, um five years prior he finally got his act together, So that means drugs and alcohol and and you know,

just kind of wacky behavior and partying and all. Maybe they didn't likable enough, but put him in the in the background as a recurring or something, you know, and we're gonna go visit your dad and he's in jail, you know, or you know, he's you know what I mean, he's doing five to ten on a on a And like I said, and I don't mean to be a broken record, it didn't go to series, so something was

not working, you know. So okay, so then we go back and we'll just real quick amy and like I was looking up like why, and a lot of it is also because the location would have been too expensive. That's an excuse. That's just an excuse. But I do remember reading that, well, yeah, I mean, you have to be crazy not to give Milo his own show. I mean, he was so popular in Gilmore and that's that's a

big audience. You know, give him his own give him the right vehicle, the timeline for Heroes because he starts Heroes in two thousand six, I believe, and Gilmore goes through two thousand seven, so he essentially does get his own show. Just took a minute. Well, you know, the move to give him his own show was to get him into new Haven, and he was He's hanging with Rory Yale and then we're we're all eliminated. It's just those two. That's interesting. Then we're all recurring, you know

what I mean? I mean, I guess that's series. I guess this is a good time to talk about it. So are we all aligned? We still got a little more to cover. But are we all aligned in that this wouldn't have made a good enough show? I don't think so. Personally, I don't know. I think if it's Milo and Rylyn Fenn, yes and Rob Est this is a little removed and then he's rehabilitated as a character and he comes back as a more likable person or what would you have liked it if they wrote him

more likable in this? So I gave you that. It's like, hey man, how you doing. You're cool? Everything cool? Well, would you have liked it if Robstes came stoner? Just like some st owner guy? So maybe we keep last week's as last week's right because he was we didn't learn enough, like you know, Luke came at him. That's fine. He goes to see Jess and runs off. Okay, fine, so we keep that as is. Would you have liked

it better in this if? Immediately as soon as Jess comes to see Jimmy, Jimmy is like, I'm so sorry. I blew it like more no no, no, no, no, no more melodrama please, I think listen. If it's a if, Jimmy is a character, not unlike the dude in uh that Jeff bridges on this, but I'll give it hang on and Jess has to and and he's just so laid back and cool and funny and doesn't give it a crap about anything, and and Jess pretty much has to raise him. So it forces Jess to grow up. Now,

I'm taking care of my dad. My dad can't really hack it, but he's he's not stressed about it. He's just so let it all go. And then they can I don't know, if I've ever seen that before. Maybe I have. Maybe it's it's it's already been filmed somewhere else. But but make that a laid back guy who really needs Jess more than Jess needs him, and then in

that they find each other eventually. So, Tara Danielle, do you think you would have Is there anything that could have happened with Jimmy for you to like the idea of this show more? I mean, I think I think I would have been interested in this show in the spin off. I didn't need it, but I would have been interested to watch it. I think. Um. I do like that thought of Jess having to help raise his dad and then growing up together. I do like that. I think that it could be really really cool. I

like it too. All Right, so let's go with that, let's write it. We'll get it getting the way back machine, will do it all over way Okay, So now we'll go back to the drama. So we've got Laura Lae sort of running out of the Gilmore. She's just done

chases after her. Go ahead. I feel like this episode has like you almost need to like do the Jess the Jess storyline and then recap like the Gilmore storyline, because we also haven't talked about the very very beginning when Luke tells Laura Lae that Jess is gone, as we did. That's what. Yes, we threw my headphones off. I haven't as not having talked because I delete as I go. Well, we definitely talked about it, because we

talked for everybody listening, Sorry to be boring. We talked about how we saw a new side of the porch because Luke moved her over. We more talked about the movie, not like actually actually him saying and Laura holding the secret from right. No, we have not talked about that. Okay, talk about that. Yeah, So obviously in that scene, Luke is like trying to get the attention, you know, from outside the kitchen window and lord La goes outside and

Luke tells her Jess is gone. And that's when we did talk about this a little bit, how Luke says he failed him, which already discussed. But I did find it interesting that Loria made a conscious decision to not tell Rory right then and there. I thought that was gnarly. Yeah, I did do I get it. I get why she didn't because Rory so wrapped up in her studies and this might derail her. But also at the same time, like I also don't see Rory being like, where's Jezz.

I haven't heard from Jezz and my boyfriend that they don't talk to you from dates exactly. Like I feel like with the ending of how it left off with like he left, he couldn't go to the problem, like it would be a couple of days. They probably didn't want to chat. That's why in a fight basically, like, just give us that good scene, right, I mean, I don't know, Scott, what do you think, should lord I

have hold Rory right away? No? No, I like that scene in the foyer when Laura Lee Rory comes out and says something buster and you know, it was kind of it was really funny. Definitely not that she says to herself. Definitely not the time to right right right right right? Okay, Yeah, that was good. That was good. Yeah. So fast forward. Where we do learn is that Rory leaves with Lorea Lee to go home from the sort of incident back at the Gilmore's and I think apparently

they went to suit plantation. They get to the light and we see, wait a minute, water, let's go back and dissect that scene, because that was a big scene, right, you know, Emily lying to Laura Lee about the dinner time and but but wasn't she somewhat just I mean, Emily is very hurt that Friday night dinners are over, right, and they're trying to move on and they don't want to include orally anymore. If Laura La is so um cold about cutting them off after they've been doing Friday

night dinners for how long? Two years? She and chilled, right, So it's just like, oh, we're not obligating anymore. I didn't gain any more of a family feeling from uh you Emily and you Richard, and I don't want to waste my time with you even once a week now that we're all successful and we've come I mean, she probably feels incredibly used. I mean, think about how used Emily feels for her money and she's doling out these wonderful dinners and trying to bond with her granddaughter and

even trying to bond with with Laurela. I see both sides say, yeah, I also am not like thrilled, like I get like wanting to spend time with your granddaughter, but like I'm also not thrilled that she like yearns for the control to do the to have to do the Friday night dinners, and like now that that's she doesn't have to, kind she doesn't feel she doesn't believe

that they will come if she doesn't have the control. Yeah, and also like she's not going to go to star as hollow because larea Line never really wants her around, and you know, I think it's always going to have to be on Emily's turf. It's a hardness, that's yeah, but provided a great scene. Yeah, And I agree with you completely Scott that I I see both both sides. I see all three sides. I see all four sides.

I see Richard's perspective, Emily's perspective, Rory's perspective. Because I also agree Rory is doing the right thing for herself and her family essentially by continuing to spend time with them. I don't fold her for that for one second. Desperately wanting Rory to come over and help with the swatch and help pick out there, yea, she just wants to see her granddaughter. She's granddaughter. Yeah, And I get why Lorealize Piste, and I get why Richard's like everyone's stafer

dinner plans to night. I think I would have enjoyed the dinner, and I actually think Lorel I would have too. I don't really get why Emily was so b I t h to not invite her daughter to dinner like that, because, as I said, she cut them off of Friday night dinner obligation. Lauralized the one that brought it up. We don't have to go now, right, but after Look, I don't care, but I don't care how bad a relationship

you have with your family. If you're going every Friday night for two years and you're sharing all of that stuff, you're bound maybe come together a little, you know, and like if wounds can't heal after you know, a hundred and four Friday night dinners plus plus plus right, all the other appearances they made and all the effort they made to show up and support Rory and somewhat support laurealized, Well,

I mean, where's the evolution of this show. Where's the evolution of the characters, Where's the evolution of that narrow Now we're back in you know, Crapville with the hard feelings and resentment and let's ignore each other, let's abuse each other and like, what have we invested so much time into witness. On the same note, though, Emily could have just said, oh, okay, yeah, let's all have dinner. When when the you know, a woman comes out, housekeeper, chef,

whatever she is called, Lupe says dinner's ready. Emily should have said, Laura Lee, do you want to stay for dinner? She did? I know, but that's my beef with Emily and that Emily, you get a lot. What's the saying you get more bees with it's honey than you do. So Emily could have said to Lora like, we'd love for you to stay. Let's all stay and then they have Let's say it goes great and they have a great dinner. Then you're on the road to recovery. Essentially,

Let's say the dinner went great. So then she says, you know what, mom, like, let's have dinner every other week on a Friday or Saturday. We'll play it by ear. I thought actly being so mean really caused a worse problem. Yeah, And I feel like what really put like really sealed the deal was when Rory told Emily, I think you're being stupid and I think Emily is going to have a real hard time with the fact that her granddaughter

told her that. That's such an important note that line, because like, like I also know Rory one doesn't talk like that and definitely doesn't talk like that to Richard and Emily. Right, Yeah, that was a knife right in the heart there. Well, and then we get another knife. So this was the scene sort of started talk about. So then they get to the stop light and Luke is sweeping and Luke, what was going What was Luke doing?

But his head was talking aggressive sweeping was it was like his head was bounced and up and when he looked up, I mean, what the heck was going on with him? And looked like he saw it goes But I mean it was just very aggressive. What is he like? Crazy? Luke like talking to himself and like I rewound that about four times, just laughed. It was some serious sweeping. And then Roy says, why did he do that? And

then this is the moment says, Jess is gone. They don't know where and uh she says he doesn't think he's coming back, and she says, neither do I. This is another example. This is another example of how you know naturally great Alexis is because she just you could just see her and feel her absorb these these this horrible news right and how she processed it. Just you could see everything happening in her eyes and her and

her body. I mean, it's just wonderful acting. I was really it was just like she's so vulnerable, such a great way to approach the craft. You know, she's so open. It's wonderful to watch. Yeah, big scene scene and then Laura like gets the red the ticket. I will say the one thing just real quick. This episode had so many big moments back at Stars Hollow and Emily and Richards that I think that the crossover unfortunately just took away from it because I completely forgot about that scene

in the car until I rewatched. I was like, oh yeah, like that's how she found out. I forgot about the valedictorian thing in this episode. I think it's like, you're right, it was a lot of back and forth that we I don't think we needed for such an important scene back at Stars Hollow. It was hard to keep up like, Okay,

we're in Venice, California right now. Okay, we're in Stars Hollow where Emily's house like it was a lot of like ping pong, which normally I really liked, but it was just felt like two different storylines, two different right. It's like it's it's like, I guess Milo was a series regular on the show at that point, right, Um, yeah, I don't know. It just felt yeah, just yeah, it was right. You're right, Tara. It was just so you

forget about these little moments, right exactly. And that's what the show is that it's at its best, That's what the show is. It's peppered with these little, little humorous moments and then these big emotional beats and all that.

I Daniel kind of suggested this, do you think you would have liked this episode better, Scott if there was a thirty minutes of all Gilmore girl you know, the Gilmore Girls stuff like Emily, you everybody over here, and we watched that for thirty minutes and then the second half of the episode was everything in l a instead of this boom boom boom boom boom. Should it have done that? And then and then because the ace, the audience would have clicked off, I don't. I think I

think curiosity even, I think they would have been confused. Yeah, you don't think they know Jess well enough now that they would have followed him for thirty minutes. I think it would been confusing. Respectfully, disagree everybody, because I mean, you know, we were watching those scenes for a couple of minutes and we wanted to go back to Stars, right. No, I didn't necessarily want to go back. I just wasn't

sold on what I was seeing there. Yeah. I actually liked the whole all the scenes in in California, I liked them. Yeah, I agree, I just felt disjointed. Yeah, like bigger picture, I could have taken that part of it out in place that somewhere else. You know what I would have liked, amy is if we did the Gimba girl scene and then you have that scene where h Jess, I mean Rory says I don't think he is either, and then we had to California the bus there.

What I want is somebody I don't know this is an experiment, somebody I don't know even know how you do this, because I don't know how to do this. Re edits the episode, We watch it again, best, like Danielle saying, so we watch all the stuff and it ends with I don't either, and then we can still have the funny bit they pulled through the light and the police pull them over, and then slow fade we see Jess coming off the bus and then we watch all those Yeah, how do we do that? Let's let

let's do that. So can we get to pop culture police? Wait? First you have to give best lines, but I don't have any. We didn't get the last scene. Oh we sort of touched on it, okay, So then we go to this last scene that Scott you sort of talked about. We're in the bookstore, and weirdly, Jimmy comes in like a father, being like, if you're going to go to a bookstore, you've got to tell me where you're going.

I've been in ten bookstores, and then proceeds to acknowledge the Bowie song, which I thought Scott was important because you it stood out to you too, So obviously it was a very conscious choice because they bring it up in this and it's kind of the why are you here? And he's like, you come in, you didn't even talk to me, and he's like, I did want to talk

to you, and then you're right. It was a very weird, sudden turn you can't stay here, and Jimmy says, I'm a screw up, and Jess says, I have nothing, and then it's let me talk to Sasha, and it was just a very It seemed like that should have been an hour long scene. That was I think they got some very bad feedback on those scenes with father and son and that's why they decided not to go with it. It was more of the same. It didn't feel right,

and you know, polling said, don't do this anyway. Um, yeah, I think we've beaten that horse. And I just have to say the very very last scene where it announces that she's a very Victorian, leads up to next week, which is my favorite episode of the whole series. All right, okay, but this, let's talk about this thing. This was a

very nice scene for Laureli. She's really right exactly, and she gets to really beam with pride and love and jeorlan to her daughter and they have that really great moment in the kitchen and Rory acknowledges that, you know, what an amazing thing she has done, and she's so humble about it, and that played very genuine to me, like she didn't not tell for any reason other than

she doesn't want to be a bragger basically. Yeah, yeah, And I think I think that's really the difference between let's revive the horse again to beat it some more. But that's that's the difference, because we get these quality characters in Gilmore, right, and they may have messy lives and all that, but they're striving and they're doing well and they're making progress. And then we go back to the beach and it's all like, I don't want you as my kid. Get out of it. It's like it's

just a different world. It's a whole different world that I think the audience just said no, thank you, and I think we're saying the same thing. Yeah, okay, you guys get ready. Uh look strap in because we've got some intel coming in live. It's coming in through my page here. It's coming across the wire. Yeah, I still have a page here. It's coming across the wire. It's it's it's like it's like Morris code coming through and I can I can read Morse code. Um. It's all

coming through on the teletype machines. They're going crazy in here. Can you hear the racket? Um? But we've got some intel. We've got some you know, we've got a little uh, you know, side notes and stuff that my crack team and I hearts cracked team noticed. The cool kids call it btsts behind the scene. One day we will be cool kids. We will be able to just say bts without having to be reminded to say it. That's that's

it anyway, So let's let's get into this. Huh. You know, this episode was indeed, and I know we're discussing there's a little bit of confusion about it, but this was the back door pilot for the j spinoff called Windward Circle windword Circle, My God, God, bless your windword Circle, which is like not getting that at all. Windword Circle could be you know, it could be mskins. You know

that that's an easy title to butcher. You know, I don't even understand what Windward ho Windward rectangle, wind whoa juicy But the project was abandoned due to the high cost of shooting at Venice Beach. Wink wink, Yeah, alright. The opening kitchen scene lauralized making coffee, and she remember when she's sneaking around not wanting to wake up Rory, thinking that Rory was asleep okay. So, so she she fills the pot with water and adds the coffee to

the machine, but she never pours the water in. She just sets the pot full of clean water on the burner of the coffee maker and leaves it. Yes, shocked, are you as as I am? Shocked? It's shocked hole all right? When Laura La or Rory are in the kitchen the beginning, and Luke's outside the back door waving at Laura like keeps popping his head in three or four times, which is kind of common, when she also startled me. Right, It's just I think it's supposed to you,

the audience. You, the audience are supposed to be part of the scene. Well, and what I noticed is, and I could be wrong, but I noticed that normally there's curtains there, and they were opened or gone so that we could see Luke be bopped in. That's a good piece of intel. So anyway, So so lucas outside the back door waving at Laurea La, and when she goes out windwards circle, certainly, isn't it sounds like a soap opera does, like the sands through it's windwards? Is the

windward circle like like wind through the windmills. It's windbrew Circle. Oh my god, the name. Yeah, we we apologize. Um, well, we'll be going to a group and and being reprogrammed after this. Uh. So he's outsod with outdoors, waving at Laurela a couple of times, and when she finally goes outside, she's actually walking out through the side door of the living room. This is because the kitchen was built on a sound stage, of course, and the kitchen door doesn't

actually lead outside. It doesn't. So we went from a sound stage where that door leads to like concrete and you know, massive sidewall there, to cutting to filming that scene at the actual house that Laurela uses for all the exteriors. We used that house for all the exteriors, the hoope and stuff walking up, the car pulling up did not even get an inkling of that. Isn't that great? How how smooth that was? Yeah, how smooth the filming of that was and all that. So the kitchen door

actually does it doesn't actually lead outside. That makes it look like she was stepping outside. They had to use the living room side door as a stand in for the back door on the other side of it as They're said. The cameras are set up at Laurelized actual exterior house, you know, way across the lot of Warner Brothers, And so we could be out there on the porch. Yeah. The magic of of of of TV, the magic of

making TV okay great scoop. At the seven thirty point, when Laurelai walks in front of the window, you can see and this is still I think on the porch right. Uh, you can still see that. You can see the reflection of the camera and a person looking at a piece of paper. Maybe that was script e whoa. Can we try and zoom in on that Instagram? Yeah, well I think we can. We can. I think we can staff that there's a crack staff working in collaboration with my

crack staff at one eleven. Uh, I think you guys are a floor below mine. We got so many people, one person between all of us. One. At the eight point, the sparklet's water cooler get this ready, Yeah, it's missing the bottle of water. It was just empty, like they ran out waiting for the guy. The bottle is not even there. Yeah. Well they have no water. They have no water. Maybe that's why the coffee pot never go what's happening? They're they're they're, they're dehydrated. I'm worried now

some pop tarts out on the table. Fault. I don't know, you know it? I think that is well, maybe it didn't need to match because from a prior take or a prior set up in the scene. So if it wasn't there and one, it can't be there in any other. I was thinking about Scripty the other day for some reason. Why was I doing that? And I actually mentioned it to Daniel on a phone call. I was like, well, what about script Why did I say that we need to meet Scripty? But anyway, keep going, Yeah, I'll tell

you we haven't. We have a new Scripty up here on Sullivan's crossing, and you can't mess with her. She's tough. There's a lot of turnover in this no what but what but but but I'll tell you, I'll tell you she's she's like, you don't want to mess with her? Right? What would be the next job? If you're scripty? What would be the next Like when you get promote, what do you go to? I don't know that you go to anything. Script Supervisor doesn't really lead to anything because

that's sort of the top thing. Well, I don't, I don't. I don't think there's a I mean, you don't graduate to script supervisor once you're I think you just start doing that. You can either you're either a person that has great detail and great focus and can keep a lot of balls in the air at the same time for an extended period, every single day for fourteen hours. Yeah, that takes a very special persons. I would suddenly be texting. I'd be like, and just exactly, I didn't miss the thing.

You know, the dinosaur wouldn't appear when you know, the t rex actually shows up because you were It's like, sorry miss that. Sorry, I am so sorry. Mr Spield, I am so sorry. Mr Goldblum. I was texting. I didn't know anyway. They're like, there was a great TikTok that I just had to see. Uh listen, you're you're in the right job. Yeah, you've you've found the right job. I don't have a lot of attention to detail there.

Um uh okay. At eighteen mark, when Jesse's bus pulls up to the curb at Venice Beach, lit Sky Studio Rentals is clearly visible on the side of the bus. Then as Jess crosses the street, you can see a tourist taking pictures of the camera crew. Oh my god. Yeah, um, all right, and then at ten thirty six, clown pillow makes an appearance. Really, so we had double clown action. There was a clown pillow and then there was the

wall of clowns at Sasha, right. I don't know if it's this one and the same, there's no my crack staff has not provided that d tail if you if we ever get to see Amy and damn, I need to know what is going on with the clown thing because they've definitely got a clown thing. Yeah, there's no question,

There's no question about it. I mean to I mean it was all the detail that they provide everyone on all levels, and then to sort of make sure that they have the discussion that the clown pillow will appear in just about every episode, right, I am not. I think it was Poulter guys, did me in have you seen the original Poulter guys like the Craig T. Nelson Poulter. Course, of course that clown who attacked clowns though, yeah, who is there really isn't a fan of It's a much.

It's a much maligned profession, isn't it because of all the horror films that involve clowns. And I think it was like, you know, very very successful. It's right. I was thinking, yeah, it they're giving clowns like Jaws gave sharks a bad name. It is get Jaws and it sharks and clowns. I didn't actually think it was all that scary, but I did give you the creeps over the clown because you probably saw too much clown too soon, right.

I think I was just older when I saw it, and I was so prepared for it to like ruin my life with fear that I went in aggressively being ready, and I think it worked because I was like, that wasn't There's there's certain things that don't age well and they'll scary. You know. The other night there was a there was a carry grant uh uh, what do you call it? Extravaganza on right, and they no, there was a Marilyn Monroe. So I watched some like it Hot

and I thought it was pretty funny. But the guy was talking to himself a lot, you know, there was a lot a monologue. Yeah, and he's great he's a great actor. He's really funny, and to pair of those two was kind of genius. But I mean after about forty five minutes and I I was like, you know, I'm kind of tired of this guy talking to himself and I get the joke and it's like he's a he's a fish out of water with this bombshell and she's so sweet and all this stuff. It's like, all right,

So I just turned it off. And then there was Carrie Grant with with Sophia Lauren in Houseboat in Houseboat and it was a family friendly, sort of a funny thing, and it's just like after a half hour, I got all right, that's a that's a well, it's funny you say that because this for me growing up, Friday the thirteenth the original and Nightmare on Elm Street and poultr guys were just terrifying. And now, especially Friday the thirteenth, it's almost campy. You're like, why was I so freaked

out by this? Although the end I can't watch life. Life toughens up, doesn't it, And these films are like are you kidding me? Yeah, it's like right, like The Exorcist. If I was alone you know. I saw that when it first came out with my friends and we all turned green and we stayed at my friend's house that night because he was Catholic. You know, he was going to protect us the whole thing, you know what I mean.

And it's like, now, it would probably scare me if I was watching it in in a house I just bought that was completely empty in the middle of the night, in the middle of the night, and I'm sitting there like, I don't want to watch the two in the afternoon, You're like, I can take this. Yeah, not a big deal, right, but freaked out by Children of the Corn that one still never never saw that children. I like the Children of the Corn is an intriguing title. Yeah, it's like

Children of the Wheat, Children of the Barley? Did they did? They follow up with sequels of different types of think so for some reason, remember Children of the Corn. It was scary. It wasn't really so there was no Children of the Wheat, right right, Children of the Asparagus. What's that new age one that everyone Children of the Peppers, children's thing that people eat children that age? You know what?

You know what? You know what movie did hold up North by Northwest, Alfred Hitchcock, Carry Grant and Eva Marie sat Oh god, oh man, what a film? And James Mason. James Mason, but do you got anything else? We get some tracked. Sorry, they don't care. They don't care for that so much. The hot Dogs Stand, Yeah, used Dan Jason. No, I mean, let's talk about something really great enough enough of that, you know, Alfred Hitchcock classic. Yeah, the hot

Dog Stand used as as Dante's Inferno. Uh, it's actually the original location of Dog on a Stick. No, I love hot Dog on a Stick. True story. It's true, as my son would say, it's true. You got some solid intel? Yeah, yeah, and that's I'm gonna bring that to a close because my last pit of intel we've already noticed. And I'm gonna give you a win on that win word circle when I don't want to be associated with that circle. Yeah, it could have been something, right,

it could have been what could have been? But isn't that you know they treat the I guess think if that was the pilot episode, that was within an episode, a pilot within in an episode, I'm an established backdoor pilot? Is that what they call a backdoor pilot. You think that's the terminology. Um, we've feeling pretty sure about that. They must have gotten some horrific feedback not to move

forward because you've got this what I'm thinking. You know, they've got this love it character, this this charismatic Milo, right vent Amelia, and they don't move forward with it. And then you know, and they were handing out shows to the guys on Gilmore girls like they were like Carolyn Finn. So I'm trying. I hope call us robstis because I want to know what happened. We'll see. I don't know. I don't know. I think you know what I think it is. I don't think it's the actors.

I think it's the concept of the storyline. Right. I think it's the concept because you sure the money played into it. I'm sure that that's no. I mean, if you have a concept like let's say Supernatural, where you put two guys together, and you know what I mean, that's the concept. So I'm not saying I'm not taking

anyway from the two leads. It helps when those two guys are Jared and Jensen, right, it does, But I mean there's other two guys you could have put in there and maybe it works too because the concept is so strong. But they just wanted to you know, the most popular guys of the day at that time, you know what I mean, So of course it was going to work. Um so yeah, and uh did they have did? Did did Matt zukri ever get a w B spinoff

show Girl to the Good to the Good Wife? He literally went to a humongous show on CBS and he was amazing and then he was a secondary still much more elevated than he was on Gilmore Girls, but still it was not it was Julianna Margatalie's the show and the resident though is a is Matt Zuker? No, it's his show. Sure is his show, and it is such a good show and he is awesome on it. The c W let him get away, Yeah didn't. The Foxes stoked on that boxes like thank you anyway. So that's

all I got. That's what I got. You did great? I love that, alright, So let's do favorite lines. Actually just said mine look has become a social I thought that was very funny. Okay, I agree. I think that's a great line. Danielle, go ahead, go alright. My favorite line is is just to the dogs when he says, I swear I will bite you back. That's great. How many jars of pickles? Scott Oh, the episode? The episode episode? I think that, you know, man, I think um strong.

I think it's for me. It's between a seven point five and eight point two. Okay, okay, now do the venice thing took a lot away from it. You could give it as separate pickle jars like I'm kind of giving. I'm gonna give the overall of six pickle jars. Yeah, I'm gonna give the Gilmore stuff, the stars hollow stuff. I'm gonna give that a strong nine and a half. Okay, okay, yeah, and I yeah, I think the pickle jars, Sir Danielle the less for the venice stuff, seven pickle jars. I

was gonna give it a six. All right, light everybody, that's gonna be thank you, ladies. Uh tar, sued daniel Rome. I feel like I feel like we're ending on a we're befuddled sort of feel like, and I feel like Scott the network probably felt the same way. Again, I agree with you. We do not have any more episodes of the my logos or Jess goes to Venice show that that was their shot. What would you have called it? Oh my god, what would you have named that show?

You stay off the beach, Um, don't don't go to the beach. Venice really stinks in the summer. Next episode, Season three, episode twenty two. This season three finale, there are strings of Pinocchio. We will see you next time. Everyone, love you, miss you. Keep the cards and letters come, and keep those emails coming. We appreciate you so much.

Thank you, ladies. Stay sacked, hey, everybody, and don't forget Follow us on Instagram at I Am all In podcast and email us at Gilmore at I heart radio dot com. Oh you gil More fans. If you're looking for the best cup of coffee in the world, go to my website from my company scott EP dot com, s C O T. T y P dot com, scott ep dot com Grade one Specialty Coffee. Yeah.