Hamsters Can't Laugh (S1 E11, “Paris Is Burning”)

I hate to tell you. I told you so, and I warned you about this, but um everything that I thought would happen happened. It happened in one episode. I didn't expect it this quickly. But my god, it was like getting in the ring with Mike Tyson and you just keep getting slugged and slugged and slugged, and there it is. I mean, it all just came apart, and uh, it was just a beautiful thing to watch, wasn't it. It It was just it was just lovely. Um I I I didn't want to be right. It pains me to

see this very And here's the thing about Rory. She is such a strong, young woman. That's the thing for me that came through in this episode is her strength, her strength that she has had to deal with all of this, and especially it's sort of like, you know, you put a cap on it at the end when she comes in and and and cuddles her own mother. I mean, who is the child? Who is the daughter

who's raising who? Here? Um? But I get I really like the way this episod so uh really portrayed a single mother who needs to have a life outside of this because of course it's all been set up that hey, she's you know, Rory's going off to Harvard or Gale wherever she's going to go off to and what about your life? And it was really good dramay, it was really more drama than comedy. But it was, my god, that was powerful, powerful episode. I knew this was gonna happen.

I was it just it just seemed like perfect set up for something like this to happen. And it all blew up. Boy did it blow up? And the moment the Paris came by and and saw those two you know, neck in in the classroom. Boyn um. Anyway, Um, we have a very very special guest and she's waiting in the waiting room, and let me read a little bit about Marrow Wilson. Okay, and you know her and your love her. Marra Wilson is known for her childhood roles

in Mrs doubt Fire and Matilda. Mara's first book, Where Am I Now? True Stories of Girlholding Accidental Fame, is available from Penguin Random House. Marra Wilson will be joining us. Can't wait to talk to her. She is a Gilmore Girls super fan and we will be back after these messages. Yeah, okay, everybody, We're back. Scott Patterson. I am all in podcast. I heart radio. We are going to bring in Marrow Wilson here, who is a Gilmore Girls super fan and um a

very successful actress in her ow right. And there she is. Hello, Maura, nice to meet you. Hi, Nice to meet you two. I am so excited about that. I am very excited about this too. After reading your resume and being aware of your my publicist emailed me and she knows me very well, and she was immediately like, I assume that you're gonna want to do this, and I wrote back like yes in all caps. Immediately she knows, she knows I'm a fan, We're glad to have you, and uh,

you're a Gilmore Girls super fan. What was it that initially captured you. You're a writer of some note now, so I imagine the writing grabbed you immediately. Definitely. You know. I I'm usually either I'm usually very behind the curb on things, and I was kind of on Gilmore Girls too. I I didn't start watching it until like the fourth or fifth season, and my brother John was a huge

student of it. Though he loved it. And John liked a lot of of the like c w w B, you know, ABC Family, free Form, Fox Family kind of shows. He liked a lot of them, but Gilmore Girls was was always like it always had a special place in his heart. And I think at that time, I think that I was like when at first from here, I think I was like, uh, you know, I was kind of like too much of a tomboy, and I was like, this is and going to be something I want to watch.

It's gonna be too girly. Later on I would realize that I actually love girly stuff. But um, I started watching it with him when he would like he was he was in college at the time and he would come home, and I would watch it with him, and just the witty banter and just the way that everybody talked and how fast it was, And it felt kind of similar to my family because there was a lot

of in my family. There was a lot of talking over each other and dropping all these references and dropping all these quotes, and so that felt very familiar and it felt very fun. So yeah, I think it really was the dialogue, I think, and and writing dialogue is one of my favorite things ever, probably because I grew up on film sets and I spent a lot of time listening to adults talk, so good dialogue really gets

to me. It. Uh, I absolutely love it. So that that is something that I think is very important to me and something that I I gravitated to right away. So many great characters, so difficult for a writer to create so many distinct, unique voices in one care amazing. Yeah, there's so many. There's it's it's so interesting because the rhythm is all very similar, I think, but everybody has such a distinct voice, and there really isn't like a weak link in in any of in any of the characters.

Like you, you love all the characters, even even the ones that you hate, you kind of love because they're just so fully formed and they're so they're so fascinating and they're so interesting in their own way. So I immediately, you know, when I started watching it, I was like, oh, this is really good, and I don't know what I was expecting. But I also love drama tase. I think that I think that kind of and I write like the stuff I right tends to be kind of drama esque.

I think that there really isn't such a thing in life as like a truly comedic or truly dramatic moment. There's like a seed of of you know, you find the comedy in the sad, and there's always a bit of tragic in the comedics. So I think drama tas are are are like the sweet spot. They're very true to life. Let's break down the episode a little bit. So you watched you watch the episode, yes I did. I did, And you know that the previous two episodes I think are are like some of the best episodes

I think. So, so I watched those. I went back and because I went to watch it, and I was like, Okay, but I need to go back and watch these two first, because I love these and uh. And my sister was like, can we just watch Guilmard Girls from the beginning again? And we might end up doing that. We might end up doing that. Uh. And she was hesitant to get into it too, but as soon as she got into it, she was like, Oh, this is the best show. I love it. And so it's something that means a lot

to both of us. Uh and uh. And but but I think that that this character, this show, it's interesting, this this one episode has it focuses on one of my favorite Gilmo Girls characters and one of my least favorite Guilmo Girls characters. I don't like Max Medina. And yes, yes, okay, because because he suffers from a terminal case of not being Luke. Um, I am Luke and Laurela all the way. Uh, you know. And and but also for a long time, because I've seen Scott Cohen on other shows and I've

loved him on them. I loved him on The Americans, and and so I was like, well, I know it's not the actor. He's a great actor and the writing is good, so what is it? And then I thought, oh, my gosh, he reminds me of my ninth grade English teacher who was always kind of he tried. He this was a guy who loved to talk about like how nice and kind and emotional and enlightened he was, but he was actually just kind of a big jerk and

he was and he really didn't like me. And I really loved his class, but he really didn't like me. And I'm like, oh, he gives me big Mr you know, Mr h feelings. He he reminds me of him, and

I think that's what it is. I was. I mean, I was like going through a tough time, which honestly, like everybody is when they're fourteen, but you know, like like things, there were a lot of big changes in my life, and I was kind of struggling with my identity and I I was I was a bit like Laurel I. I was loud and I was obnoxious, and I was always talking over everybody, and I would blurt things out in class and I would embarrass myself and

I would embarrass my friends. And I think that I was just too intense for him, and he didn't he he didn't like that, and so he remember he kicked me out of his class once because I've been talking out of turn. Like too much. And he told me, he said, has anybody ever told you that you rubbed

them the wrong way? And I was like, what a thing to say, And especially when it's especially when it's coming from somebody who who's like all about psychology and all about Freud and will be like, tell me about your parents, tell me about your life, and like being insulted by like a sensitive, a sensibly gentle person is like the worst thing that can happen. And I had a bit of Luke and me too, I was also kind of I was also kind of grumpy, so uh so I think that kind of that kind of put

him off, and you know that puts some people off. Um, so Max reminds me of him. But also he's just not Luke. So so it's just like, you know, you watch these episodes and and and Luke is like a part of them, and and then oh and and then you know, and then here's here's not again, So that I think was part of it. And but Paris, Paris is one of my favorite characters. She is so entertaining. So I loved I loved the Paris moments in this one, plenty of them. Uh yes, yes, what a what a

mean girl. But you know, and I know how they try to justify it through the divorce, The horrible divorce has a family in Paris and a second family in Paris. Yes, yes, you know, I think some very famous people had second families in Paris. Buck Fuller, I think had a family and another family. There's you know, a lot of writers had second families. I mean, it seems to be a

theme amongst the tortured creative souls. Yeah, they all had like their their wives and their mistresses and yeah, and a lot of them were in Paris, and I think that that was kind of more that was that was seen as like even more acceptable. Like here, you know, they would they would shame you for that, I feel like, but but in in France, you know, that was you know,

that was seen as as acceptable. And and excuse me to hear that, like like, um, amongst the royal family and aristocratic people, it's considered kind of cool if you're if you're like partners having an affair with somebody who's like more aristocratic or more royal. Like some people said, like about Camilla Parker Bowls, like her husband was like was like, well, she's sleeping with the prince and that's cool because he's so high status. So but things are

very different in the US. But I love Paris, and I just love seeing and I mean, this is one of the few times that you see her mom and and you kind of get a feeling that Paris was actually raised by her nanny, you know, And and she is very lonely. And and I think people who are kind of born into chaos, they tend to maybe not thriving chaos, but they're used to chaos, and they kind of create chaos around them because that's what they're used to and what that's what they that that allows them

to kind of have the upper hand. So really, one of my favorite lines on the show ever, I think is in a later season, uh, when Rory and Paris are getting along and Emily says, now there's Paris. Are you two friends? Never can tell? So I saw a little bit of Emily in Paris's mother. Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. And there's a lot of there's a lot of of there's a lot of oh my gosh, i's

gonna quote the show. There's a lot of Emily in Paris. Uh, there is, though, there's they definitely and they understand each other. I think when they get together they kind of understand each other. And Emily sometimes finds her I think a little annoying. But I think it's that thing where you can see another people what you don't like in yourself. You know, It's like looking in a mirror, and I

think that that's kind of what it is. You know what I found really interesting about Emily scene with Laurela when they come over for dinner and she wants to confront about the kissing Maximndina, she was incredibly restrained. She ramps it up, you know, something big is happening, but she doesn't abuse the scene. As an actor, she doesn't abuse that scene. She she really plays the exasperation beautifully,

like I just don't understand you. Are you insane? Please explain this to me, and gives her a chance to explain, and she listens. She does listen. I think you're right. Kelly Bishop is great with that. She's very great with with restrained, restrained emotions and restrained scenes. And that's something I think I feel like you cadn't see in a lot of her performances. You know, you can see that in Dirty Dancing, to where she she always has a look on her face like she wants to say something,

but she won't. You know, she wants to do something, but she won't. And you can hear that on you know, the chorus line cast album, just talking about her family and things. So she think, I think, is she as an actress is kind of a master of restraint and she wants to do these things, but she she doesn't.

But I think the difference between the difference between her and Laura Lae is Emily sees all these restrictions in place as an important thing and they are the way that things are and you have to live by them. And Laura just hasn't. She hasn't ever seen that. She's she's never understood why do we need to do this?

She's never understood the why of it? And Emily, Emily is like, there there, there isn't a why, you just do There's so much and and and I don't know, it's it's uh, it's it's such a great restrained scene, I think, And I don't know. You see, you see one thing that's really nice about this episode as you see these two you see Paris kind of having to admit that she did something wrong. And you also see you see Rory and and Laura Lee relating what you

see Rory having to take care of Laura Lie. I think at the end of this episode, which is really interesting, and I think that this early in the show, that's kind of the first time you see this. It's the first time you see Paris sort of admit to to a fault, to a flaw and be vulnerable. And it's one of the first times you see that. And and you know that that Rory sometimes take takes care of Laura La, but it's one of the first times you

actually see it. What really shined through for me was was Rory's strength, her her role, being able to stand up to Paris in such a cool man, and being able to stand up to her own mother, bargaining at the table with her says well, I'm not returning the book and screw you, and I'm going into my room. You're doing yourself. Yeah, she's a tough kid. She is a tough kid, and and it you know, I think that as she gets a little bit older, she kind

of she loses her way a little bit. She gets she gets more anxious about herself and she second guesses, but at this age, she she has that and I don't know, and I feel like I had a little bit of that. I think a lot of people do. And I've actually seen interviews with like Lisa Whiles she said, Yeah, when I was young, I was very outgoing and believed in myself, and then as I got older, I got shire. And I feel like Rory kind of does that as

a character too. But she is she's so strong and it's not just taking care of her mother, but it's it's also just it's also, yeah, her standing up for herself. She's a very strong sense of self at this age, which which is really remarkable. And and Laura I did do Laura La, Laura La knew who she was. She you know, she she you know, she she probably did some things that you know, changed her life, and she she,

you know, she did some things. I'm not going to say it made a mistake because Worry is like a wonderful child and she's and she always says like, look, I didn't really make a mistake. This is something that you know, maybe I shouldn't have done, but I'm not sorry that it happened. But I think that she uh that she I don't know, it's it's uh, it's she. She also has a very strong sense of sense of self.

Uh and and and so this, this whole this whole episode, I think and like, yea, so maybe I do like this episode more than I thought, because it is it is all about, uh, sort of having to come to terms with who you are and your identity, especially with with the idea of lore La letting Max into her life and how resistant she is to that, you know, seeing how Rory turned out in the Revival, but she was doubting herself, second guessing herself, not really her life

not working out. Do you think those seeds were planted in this series right away? I don't know about right away, but I mean in some ways, I also think that's a generational thing because I do know that a lot of you know, because an extraordinary precocious beginning she had, and now she's in this fancy private school, she's going to Harbor you and what happened? I mean I think

a lot of yeah, a lot of kids. You know, a lot of kids like when they're told that they're gifted when they're young, or when they're told that they're talented when they're young, and I've experienced a bit of this myself, because you know, I was sort of h I started acting as a child, and I was kind

of it's a smaller pond back then. And as I got older, you know, there were fewer and fewer roles, and part of it was just well there was more competition, but and also and also it's harder to be an actor. I think for me, it was almost easier to be an actor when I was younger, because children are afraid to be vulnerable, whereas adults learned to be afraid to be vulnerable. And I think that that is something that that you know. But but I do also think that

it's a sort of generational thing. I'm not sure what it was exactly, but I do feel like most people I know, like in their mid thirties, are very unsure of themselves. And I don't know if it's the world that we grew up in or if it's the way you know, but but I do feel like, like Rory is um, there's a story is kind of what we're like. Sixteen year old girl who obviously is academically gifted, she is psychologically prepared to deal with somebody in such a

cool manner as Paris. Who would have the wherewithal and the psychological power and the skills to deal with the Paris at sixteen years old. You have to be a very smart, very cool character with a ton of experience dealing with this kind of thing. And what she got from dealing with It's like, how did she go wrong? How did it go bad? How did she not? I'm not saying it went bad, I'm just how did she

get lost? You know? It's interesting. I feel like, like maybe because because Rory is very interprustionally smart, and I think that she's smarter with other people than she is with herself. And it makes me wonder like if she had if she had like become somebody who helps other people, if she had focused on that, you know, she had studied psychology or something instead of instead of journalism and kind of like wanting to be a star. I feel like,

you know, maybe that would have changed her. That would have you know, that would have been it. I also think that there was there were some men in her life who kind of steered her wrong, which which you know, and I have my opinions on this too, and I will admit I used to hate Jess. I used to really hate him. I was like, you're so mean to Luke, You're so men to Laura, like you jerk Rory around. And I liked Dean at the beginning, you know, Uh yeah,

I liked Dean and exactly. I think one of the first episodes I watched in full actually was the pop It episode, and I remember being like being like, why is Luke so mean to him? And my brother was like, you have to go back and watch and find out the sort of ups and downs that that happened there. And then I was like, oh, okay, that's that is

reasonable for him to hate him, and Lucas protective. But but yeah, but but I felt like Jess kind of came off the best in the in in in the Revival, I thought that he came off the best because he has found him helf and he's not as angry anymore.

And Dean is Deana is very sweet, but Diana's very much I think a lot of us have like that first boyfriend or that first girlfriend that you know, meant a lot to us and really showed us a lot of things and we learned a lot from them, and and but we're glad we're not with them now, I know that I do where I'm like where I'm like that was. That was a lot of fun, and that was a great time and we both learned a lot

about ourselves. But we wouldn't have been happy if we got married, you know, we wouldn't been happy if we if we decided to stay partners. And I think that that's kind of what Dean is, and it's nice to see that he and Rory are still friendly. Um Logan is uh, Logan is the type of guy I think

where um and these people are dangerous. When you're around them, you feel really good and they're very charismatic, and you get kind of sucked in, and then when you're not around them, you're like, that person is kind of weird. I don't know if I should really be friends with them. That's the feeling that I get from Logan. Very very charming, but also when you're not around them, you're like, huh, I have kind of a weird feeling in my stuff, like like should I trust this person I didn't trust

in the minute he called her Ace. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I felt. I mean, I've felt, you know, and I've I've definitely had you know, friendships and relationships with people where they're very charming and they come up with little nicknames for you and they say funny things to you and it's so much fun. And then when you're and then when you're not with them, you are constantly defending them to other people. It's a control thing. It is, it really is, and it's it's kind of scary actually,

So it's a little strange. So yeah, I didn't like when he appeared in the revival. I was like, shut a flogan, go away, yeah, posing, posing, Yeah, I was like, wow, yeah, great, great, Look we're talking about the characters here. We're not talking about the people. We love the people. Well, the act of the place isn't Matt, Matt Supreme, Matt zu Cree. I saw him on the street like ten years ago, walking down the street, and and um, I also saw Danny Strong walking down the street I think, like in

that same neighborhood. And afterwards I was like, I was like, is this like a Gilmore girl's neighborhood? But I saw him walking down the street and he looked looked like very handsome and nice, and I remember thinking like, oh man, I feel so bad that I hate this guy's character. He seems like a nice guy. Yeah he's got he's gotta walk that Razor's edgy, you know. And I've loved I've also loved my Loventimilian everything that I've seen him in.

And but but Jess, Jess, I struggled with. But don't ever say that to a Jess fan, because Jess fans are hardcore. Cut your head off. I think I also was probably too old for Jess, Like I think if I had seen him in UM, if I had started watching the show when it first came out, you know, when I was thirteen fourteen, I think that I probably

would have loved Jess. But by eighteen I had By seventeen eighteen, when I started watching it, UM, I had been in an arts high school, and I knew a lot of guys like Jess, and I had dated them, and I was done with them. You know. I was just like, you like poetry, maybe you have a guitar, like I don't care. I was just like I was so over it, so over it, but yeah I was. I was just like, you know, it wasn't that's great,

that's great. So I was like, I was like, you had all that and you played baseball too, man, Like I played through my sophomore year and I was so annoyed by the coach. Um, yeah, I wasn't like a jockey jock guy. Yeah, I enjoyed. I loved playing. I was very good at it. But it just I just didn't want to be that person that the coach wanted me to be. That makes sense, That makes sense. Baseball players and baseball coaches can be so hard. So yes, you know, and you're in a discipline where you know

your body is your instrument. It's it's tough, like acting. As we break down this episode, as we talked about this episode a little bit, where do you think it's going? Where do you think? Uh? I mean, I can't even Here's what I like. Here's here's what I started liking Max. I like the way Max suffered. I like the way Max faced his consequences. I like the way Max said, we need to take some time apart. This was devastating

for him. He almost lost the woman of his dreams, and he almost lost his livelihood and he still might lose his livelihood. Um, and as I stated earlier in the podcast, this is this relationship between these two is going to cost, could potentially cost him everything, and the school could be liable, and it's just a giant mess and what is going on and why is she doing this?

Can you justify this on any level? Can you explain this to my dumbhead why anybody would do something like this and put their child at this much risk in the middle of this much of a maelstrom. Um, I mean, I feel like and it's weird because honestly, I feel like if it were if it were like a public school, that happens, you know, that happens like, um, you know where we're teachers, teachers and you know, parents and teachers, they date like that. I've seen, you know, I've seen

that happen. People married, h you know, somebody married the coach or the this or that that. But at someplace like Chilton, I feel like there's this sort of and I don't know if it's a class based thing or what, because while I was watching this at first, I was kind of like, I was like, what's the big deal, Like, Okay, yeah, I shouldn't have been making out at school, you know, it could influence are grades and also but also it's

a it's a class thing. I think there's there's definitely like you guys kind of can't mix and and for them, it's probably a bit like a doctor dating a patient, which you know, which really is like unethical. I mean, it's not like a teacher dating a student, which is you know, unethical and illegal. But but although that happens to um, but um they were, I think, like, I don't know, but I also think sometimes people people are very good for each other, but it's just not the

right time, it's just not the right place. They're kind of star crossed. But the thing is that I I personally believe and I don't know if this is just because I'm a Luke and Laura La kind of person, and and uh, I think that like there was something that just wasn't right with it. And I feel like you can see it with Laura La. She keeps talking about what a good guy he is. She keeps talking about you know, she's like, he's a good guy. But and I think that maybe she's even using Rory as

an excuse. I think this is happening to me too, where you meet somebody and they're really wonderful and they're everything you want on paper, but there's just not the comfort and the connection that you can see with her and Luke in the previous episode where they understand each other. And and that's the thing too, Like how comfortable Rory is with Luke is one thing as opposed to um too, Rory being announcing you know, I'm comfortable with Max. I'm

totally comfortable with Max. You know. It's it's if you really are. Do you feel that kind of comfort? I think you don't really need to say it, and I feel like that. So I feel like that is it is is different. You know, that is something different. Um. But then I'm also a big fan of stories where people are like best friends and they go on to UH to get married. And I've also seen that happen in real life. It happened to a family member of mine and UH, and it's very cute when that happens.

So so I like that narrative. I think a little bit more than like this person is perfect on paper, but you know, or or or we can't be together because of you know, class reasons or job reasons or something like that. I you know, I like the I like the best friends slowly realizing their in love, you know, because there that that comes with the foundation of trust I think, as opposed to just kind of liking what the other person stands for. Let me, and that's just

popped in them. Do you think that there's a part of Lauraae, there's something inside her that longs to go back to Hartford, longs to go back to the country club, longs to go back and be accepted by her family and live that life. Do you think that she has any even a tinge of regret at what she did

at sixteen? What happened her at sixteen, that's a really good and maybe that's why she's sabotaging the Max thing, knowing full well it's not going to work out, because of course it's not going to work out, And maybe that's why there is this sort of undercurrent of I don't know, sort of a sec there's a sort of a hostile superiority, and you know, I don't I don't

want I don't want to mislead our listeners. I'm not saying that she's hostile towards Luke, but she does have this kind of way of I don't know, joking with him that's a little too familiar sometimes, and that she she hates herself for loving Luke and doesn't want to admit it because he's too low down on the on

the class side for her. Well, that's something you see because because Emily, I feel like, you know, and you were talking about this in the last podcast episode, Emily, I feel like she does like Luke, but I think she feels like she can't like Luke and that becomes

a source of conflict later on. She can't like him. Um, But I think that I don't know, I don't think that she wants to go back to it necessarily, but I do think that she realizes in some ways that she is dependent upon it in some ways, you know, And and that's really the struggle for her is sort of and that you know, and that can be kind of that is something for a lot of people who

come from a privileged background. But don't you know, people who like like people who who are very against how you know, their families made their money, maybe their families made their money doing something unethical, but they're you know, the kind of kind of like meato soprano kind of thing where it's like, I don't like where this money is coming from, but I need it so I can go on to to uh, you know, to to to become a lawyer or become a doctor, become whatever it

is I want to do. She she does sometimes she needs that money, and especially for Rory, I think, and I think, I don't know. I think in some ways she does want Rory to live that life, you know, she she struggles. She doesn't want her to be a debutante, she doesn't want her to be doing all those things. But I do think that she wants Rory to still have those advantages. She wants her to go to Harvard. Uh and and she knows that she's going to need that connection. So I don't know if it's a want

so much as a need. I think subconsciously she knows that she needs through her, she's going to should have happened with her, Yeah, I think so. I I do think that she does. And that's one of the struggles I think in in the show too, is is you know her her kind of and and I think that she knows that in some ways that she's living vicariously

through Rory. And I think that's one of Louralie's biggest internal struggles is trying not to do that so much, which is you know, which is something I understood because my mother had been an actor and then she you know, later on I I when I started acting as a child, my mom struggled every day to not be seen as a stage mother because she was terrified and she was like,

I know, somebody's gonna be like, oh, you majored. You know, you were in Northwestern theater major and your daughters and actress. Are you living vicariously through her? You know? So, so that's something that I recognize. I think, Um, and uh, I don't know, you know, it's it's um, I don't know, it's it's it's so I do think that she probably needs it. She knows that she needs it. Rory very

strong kid, very strong. Yeah. Um, And isn't it It's interesting how all of these people's home lives are playing out in dialogue and that the writing is paying attention to this and how much it influences all these interactions at children with these kids, because it's really just all about what's going on at home that I've always said, because I really like it's so funny because if you read, like the first play that I wrote when I was

in college and like in graduating college, it was called people, and you can see I think more girls and women's there because the way that references are dropped and the way people are talking over each other, and the way that people are are doing these things. My my, I remember my playwriting teachers even saying and like my progress report. She's like, I know, we tease you a lot about all your references, but and uh and it was true. It was just but that was that was really so.

So it was a really big influence. But I've learned, I think because I like, I saw a lot of plays when I was living in New York, and I would see some where they would be really clever dialogue, but it wasn't good dialogue. It didn't reveal anything about

about these people. Like, um, I feel this way a little bit about like Cole Porter songs, like all cool Porter songs are incredibly clever and funny, but very rarely do they reveal anything about a character the way that like a Sandheim song does, or even a Rogers and

Hammerstand song or Rodgers and Heart song does. I'm a big musical theater, so um so that's the kind of thing or or like or like a lot of jazz songs, do you know um so, so I think that that's and and and it's okay if you're writing is just clever, you know. But but Gilmer Girls, I think is is a level of writing where everything, everything reveals a character

and everything, you know. Another one of my favorite lines is when is when uh, Laura lies like you you shouldn't assume, because when you assume, and she's gonna say, you make an ass out of you and me, But then she realizes she can't tell that joke to Emily. So she's just like, because you just shouldn't and she holds back. And and that's the thing too, is that is that so much of dialogue and I think you see this with Luke, and you see this see this

later on with Jess. There's also what you're not saying, So so that's that's another thing. There's there's it's something that you're not saying that you're not saying, And I mean the Woody banter. I love it. It's like popcorn to me, but but you know, you have to be you you. I don't know, there's there's so much sense revealed in it, and that that's really what I love about this show. What is your I'm gonna ask you if that's okay, here we go. Who's your favorite character

who you relate to the most? Oh? Okay, um, let's see. I I I don't know really who my favorite character is. I I think I love Lane. Lane is great. Um, I love Luke, but there's uh, I don't know. I really love Paris. I think Paris is like one of my favorite characters. But I feel like a lot of my favorite characters and things are really like the most

earnest ones, you know. I think the most earnest ones are always are always the funniest and and sometimes it's characters who are very earnest and sweet and open, you know. But sometimes it's earnest characters who are a bit too too harsh uh and and uh. And I think Paris is kind of one of those. Paris can't be anything other than who she is, and that's really why I

love her. I I kind of have like a love hate relationship with Emily because I I I hate the way she upholds these like archaic things, you know, But but I also I also love who she is as a person, and I love the way that she loves Rory, so you know, so that's really a thing. Uh Suki too. Suki is another earnest character that I really love. I I love, I do love the earnest characters. And and

Melissa McCarthy is also a genius. So I loved seeing her in this and then you know, ten years later seeing her in Bridesmaids and can you ever Forgive Me? And all of these things, and I'm just like, I'm just like, gosh, she can do anything anything. Isn't it amazing that Hollywood took this long to discover her when she was doing that work one years ago? She was doing that level of work years ago, and nobody cast her in a film. Yeah, and you can, yeah, and

she does and she can. Yeah, she can do everything. So I I I absolutely adore her. Um, I love I love Lauren Grandma's as Laura la I think and and and I also love Edward A. Grahaman is as like when he when he died, I I think I actually said out loud, oh no, grandpa died like he he felt kind of like everybody's grandpa. So so I can't really choose. I can't really choose, Like, who do

I relate to? Um? I don't think I relate to Rory that much because I felt growing up like I was kind of a screw up, like I was more I think that I and that's probably not true, but I was always told you have so much potential, why are you wasting it? And I think that's because I was. I was a very scattered brandchild. I I like, you know, I I in college they told me, you know, you have a d h D. That's why you relate to things, That's why you lose things, you know, So maybe that

was what was what it was. And I was very I was very anxious. I was. I was always nervous. I was always anxious about it. So I think there's a little bit of Laura Lae. I think that I also can do sort of the gruff but loving thing. Um. I definitely have a besides. So I think that there's especially as I good older, I relate to Luke more and more. And I'm also very pragmatic and I think Luke is too, you know, whereas Laurelai, I think is like more whimsical. So UM, I don't know, maybe maybe

I'm like the child they would have had. Uh yeah, I but but because because I think I have kind of both the the you know, the passionate aspect of me and the loud, talkative thing. Um, I'm not a coffee drink grama to drinker. But but yeah, but I but I do also have a little bit of of Luke's practicality and roughness and uh, we're not gruffness, but but grumpiness and uh and complains like I have. I have both sides in me. I think a wide array

of character personalities to choose from. We can pick a little bus is out of out of all of them. And yeah, it's an amazing array, it really is. Um. Another fan question, You're ready? Um, okay, So we're going to get into this. Well, I think you've already expressed how I probably have. I tend to I tend to ramble. How you've you've expressed how you feel about Max Medina. I have been very clear about how I feel about even though we love Scott Corner. What is your favorite

Kirk Mick odd job. Oh my gosh, Um, I love when he plays Jesus and he's so rude to Judas in the in the Festival of Living Art. That was his favorite character played by the way he came on the podcast, he said he favored Jesus over everybody. I love I love Sean Gun. Yeah, I love Sean Gun in this um. One of the first episodes I watched is the one where he's the projectionist and he they're trying to show cool hand Luke but they can't. Um. There's I love him as the as the dj at.

It was this wedding, yeah, where where he's just playing like Kajagugu and and like wangng and and just like all the Terrible eighties one whit wonders. Yeah, I I loved I love him as. I love that too. I think that's yeah, that's that's those are probably my favorites. Um, I see what haven't we covered in the episode? Who is your favorite character? Do you think right now? Emily? Yeah? Yeah, Emily and Rory Yeah, Emily and Rory. I think I

think I kind of I don't know. I I think that as I as I get older, I sort of relate to Emily a little bit more. I mean I think that she kind of when you grew up in that kind of culture, I think you also there's a limit to how much free will you have? Uh And and I also think that I also think that Laura I probably takes after her father a little bit more because her father is somebody who takes risks and does big things, whereas Emily isn't. Emily's like, Nope, there's a

code and I have to live by it. Um so so that I think is something. You know, maybe that's where Laurea lies, you know, impulsiveness and creativity comes from that, even though you know, even though corporate she's a corporate wife. I mean he's uh, what is He's a VP of a huge insurance company. I mean this guy is uh,

you know, yeah, he does he does so much. But yeah, I think I also love and maybe it's because I love Kelly Bishop, but I do feel like, like when I was younger, I think I was like I was like Emily so mean, but now I'm like, no, I understand her more. I think, yeah, I have a question for both of you. Yeah, okay, So it's a two parter. Was Laura lia doing the right thing for herself for

Rory for whoever? When she was sort of pulling back from Max and not returning his calls, and then they have the incident in the school room where she's sort of trying to break up with him by giving him back the book. That's part one. Was she doing the right thing? Part two? Did Max do the right thing in the coffee shop at the end of the episode by telling her or they need to take a break,

Because that was heart breaking for me. After she's now endured all this embarrassment and he breaks up with her, It's like, oh my god. So I'd love to hear both of you talk about both those sort of those those moments. I think she might have been doing the right thing, but she didn't go about it the right way. You know, you have to be honest with somebody, and and and she just kind of wasn't. I think she wasn't as upfront about it as she could have been.

You know, she she wasn't as as honest as she could have been. And I understand that why she wasn't, because that's a hard thing to do. That's a hard thing to tackle. I I do think, Matt, I do think Max did the right thing. But I don't know. And I guess it's because maybe because I know where it's going. But but I do think that I don't know, Like in my experience, anytime somebody says and then my friend's experience. Anytime somebody says we need to take a break, Uh,

that means they are breaking up for good. But but I think that uh, I don't know. I wonder if she thinks maybe they will get back together or they won't like and maybe he does need Sometimes sometimes people do need time. But when they say, I don't know. For some there's something about, you know, when they say a break, that that it's not it's not working. So I don't know. But but also but also in some ways, I'm like, who cares, you know, just see where it goes.

She chose him because she knew it wouldn't work out. She did it subconsciously. She knew that it was going to cause problems. She knew she would always have an out, She would have several people chewing her face off. Her mother, uh first and foremost her daughter. I mean she she did it to sabotage she she did it to get out of it. And um, yes, I think Max did

the right thing. I really do. I think Max looks relationships in the beginning, the first flush, which is what they were, still in the midst of a very delicate things, and they can I mean, you popped the balloon like that. That's tough to go back from that. I mean, he was deflated, no pun intended, like a pop and you know, he had put so much effort into it. So I really gained a tremendous amount of respect for him as

a man who had made a horrible decision. But now I see how overwhelmed he was with his adoration of Laurela. And he wanted it all. He wanted a family, wanted kids. I mean, that was it. That's what he had the blinders on. And she burst the bubble and he's gone. He was like, gosh, you know, it was supposed to be perfect. This wasn't supposed to happen. And so now he's questioning his own judgment. So it's it's it's just a double negative for him, and of course he has

to retreat and sort of sort of feelings out. Now I have two follow ups. Now I have two follow ups because you guys are making me think. So my first question is and and I'd love for both of you to analyze it, because you both sort of have suggested you don't like Max, where I love I like him. Now, yeah, I think I do like him. I do I do like him more but but in some ways it's just

that he isn't Luke. So in the scene where Laurel and Max are on like the cute date, they're at Max's house and they've obviously had like this cute dinner that he cooked and they're like making out. Do you feel the chemistry between them? Do you think they're a good couple if you're just isolating that date? I feel it from him. I think he Scott, we just I think we just made the same face. We just made the same were just made the same, like, you know,

kind of face. Earlier when he tried to put her up against the wall and be passion I'm like, that's not passion Yeah, I mean that's not at a level of Luke and Laureli, because that's I don't know, Luke. I don't know, maybe like Lucas, a passionate person who has to try not to be passionate. I think who

who hides it behind this sort of gruffness? And I think that that's true of a lot of people who you know, especially people who have experienced a lot in their lives or who had you know, Lucas the whole thing with his dad and his sister, like he you have to hide that sensitivity and that passion behind, but behind sort of this layer of if not cynicism, but like toughness. Whereas Max, I feel like, is is kind of heart on a sleeve kind of guy, but he's

not super passionate. Max's Max as somebody. Yeah, Max isn't a very passionate person, and Laurela is. Uh So then I need to know what you guys saw this because this because I'm like, I'm I love Max, So I come from a place of like, he's doing this great. Except I do think he had one major misstep, although I felt his pain, which is why he did it. What did you guys think when he talks to Rory to find out is she coming to parents night? And

she hasn't called me that? I was like, that demonstrates that for me, just demonstrated how enamored he is of her. I mean, he cannot control himself. He puts her up on a pedestal, I think, and that is dangerous. You can't. You can't put someone up on a pedestal. They'll they'll immediately fall or or or maybe they never will, but but they will start to feel uncomfortable with it. And yeah, and she did and she did, so I think that

that is something. Yeah, Max, Max gets kind of helpless around her, and and I think that that's that's not good. I think that a lot of people see that as as love, but I don't think that it is. I think it's sort of I think I think love needs to be more mutual and on the same level. Right, But I think he knows how to love. I think he's a loving guy. I now get Yeah, I think I think she needs to create conflict in every relationship she has, or she gets board or that's just what

you may be right there. I felt more love when you we're in the diner and said, drink your hot chocolate. You lock up, we're going, let's go to the hospital. To me, that was that was love. Yeah, it's I think Max knows how to love to I just think that ultimately it is a like on paper situation. He should be everything that she wants, you know, but but

but she isn't. And and yeah, Marline maybe a little bit immature at this age and and still thinking like that she wants something, you know big, and I mean she went for Christopher, and Christopher is is you know hectic and all over the place and and inconsistent. So we know that she she likes a little bit of

that because that is exciting to her. I I think that she also matures, She also grows up a little bit and blamer I mean, you can, but but you can't blame her for wanting to have you know, dipper tone in the water. She hasn't been in a relationship for a while. It's true, why why can't she have it? But my god, I just think Max was just sort of a a test balloon or training wheels for Luke to be able to ride. Luke. I could see that.

I think that he was great on paper. I think I think that I think that he was a I don't know. I think that that he was that he was a Yeah, I don't know. I think that he was great on paper, but but ultimately not what she wanted. And I think that with her and Luke, they are on equal footing and they they you know, they kind of respect each other. They do respect each other, and they trust each other and on some level understand each other, and they understand there's an acceptance of who the other

person is. There's an understanding and acceptance of who the other person is. You don't have that really with with Max and Laura because Max is putting Laura lay up on a pedestal, and he's giving a lot, and he's he's getting more than she's comfortable with, I think, and she really likes him and really likes who he is, but maybe doesn't particularly want it. So you don't have the same the same thing that you have in the

live in Morelie relationship. I totally agree. Um, I just think Max is uh, he's a mature, psychologically orientated her human being. He's a challenge intellectually for her because he's on the same level and he's probably more school better read. Obviously. You know, she she went through her whole Michael Crichton thing. It was a funny bit versus prost and and I

think she wasn't up to the challenge. So she sabotaged and she chose him because she knew she wasn't going to swim in those deep waters, because those are deep waters, Max women, and he's a that's the real deal. That's a that's a man in love laying his cards on the table. And if it's mutual, it should be tough, and it became not mutual, so anyway, very interesting. All right, Mara, are you ready for rapid fire? Yes? Okay, where god you rapid fire? And here we go. Ready? Countdown, ladies

and gentlemen, one, two, three to one. How do you take your coffee? You don't drink not at all. I drink tea. When I do drink coffee, it is dec espresso. Okay, can you smell snow? Um? I guess smell a lot of weird things, so yeah, I can't. Actually, Okay, you've already answered this, but i'll ask it anyway. Are your team Logan, Jesser Dean and Jess when he's a grown up, Dean when she's young? Not Logan, I might I'll ask this question. Who's the daddy? Oh? What does that mean? Exactly?

Just the knocked up Rory? Oh? Unfortunately, unfortunately I think it's Logan. Unfortunately. Yeah, unfortunately, Yeah, I was. I was, Yeah, I was, I was like, oh no, not Logan, Please don't please, don't be Logan. But I think it probably is. Unfortunately Netflix has him all over there, you know, like with the Gilmore Yeah, Logan together, yeah, best memory of Gilmore girls. Oh? Um, I don't know probably watching it with my brother and uh and us talking about the

strummy La La music Sam Phillips. Uh, show you're binge watching right now? Show I've been watched, show I've been Oh, let's see, Um well, I just finished The Sopranos, Uh and Hacks. I loved Hacks. That that is a great, great show. I really loved that show too, so um so yeah, those are mine. But we might start up on Gilmore Girls again. I'm doing it. Yeah, first time. I'm loving it. Okay, are you ready to do a re enactment scene? Did you know that you were going

to be asked to do this? I did not know. I did not know. You want to just wing it? You just want to go for it? Yeah, sure, that's cold, cold ride. Yes, right. So what are your plans tonight? I'm going over to my friend Lane's house. Sounds good, and you guys are dinner movie the usual? Right. This is a little uncomfortable, Yes it is. But the thing is, if things go well the way I hope things they're going, we might do this again. Sit uncomfortably seeing seeing each

other outside of school. That's okay, I'm fine with this whole you and my mom thing. I'm glad. Well, better go. It's good to talk to you, Rory, you two. Mr Medina. Oh why don't you call me Max just when we're out of school? I don't think I can do that? Why not? It just sounds wrong, disrespectful. I mean, you're my teacher, Mr Medina, and if I start to think of you as Max, even as a part time Max,

it just seems like it would get too confusing. How about then we'd come up with the non children names for each other when we're not in school. I'll call you Rebecca Rebecca, and you'll call me well, I look like a Norman to you. I'm sorry. Psycho was on earlier and it was just the first name that came into mind. I'll think of something else. How about Alfred? You know what? Norman's fine? Are you sure i'll make a legal change? Okay? Well, I better go? Okay, I

hope you and Lane have a good time. Thanks. I would you give this to my mom for me? Absolutely? Thanks? Oh a Norman have her home by ten? I thought that was excellent. That's a cute line. That's a cute line there by the end. I like that. I like that. Yeah, yeah, and I think uh, I think we're I think thanks yeah, yeah, But oh my gosh, this has been so fun. What a great guest. You're fun to talk. Thank you, thank you,

and thank you for your time. I'm gonna I'm gonna get your books and I'm going to read your books. Thank you, Thank you so much. I'm very interested in your perspective on things, and you were a very interesting guest. So thank you for coming on. Thank you. I think I even referenced Gilmore Girls a couple of times in my book. Yeah, I think I did. I know I did at least once. All right, thanks, it was the light meeting you. I hope you come back on. I would love to. Oh, please have me back on. I

would absolutely love that. I think we're already sort of, you know, kind of texting back and forth. We're gonna have her back on. Yeah, yeah, please do it, please do and yeah. And in the meantime, I think my sister and maybe my brother on the other side of the country and I will will start watching again because because we love it, we really do. I know, I'm having a great time watching. I've never seen it. I saw the pilot, and I saw Winter at the premiere

and I've never seen the episode. People never believe that that actors do that. But I know when I was a screen actor, like, it was so hard for me to watch myself. I got so insecure. But and I can do it when I'm doing like animation because because I'm not looking at myself, but I'm not judging the face that I've made. But but yeah, but it's hard to watch yourself. But this is such a great show. I don't mind it. Twenty one years later, I'm far en off away from it now where I can actually

enjoy it. I feel that too. I definitely feel that too. I feel that when I look back on can you watch Mrs Doubtfire now? Because the whole time, all I've been wanting to say is goddamn kids too. I can now, But I used to be. I used to be. The only time I ever I think, voluntarily watched Mrs Doubtfire when I was a kid was it was on TV and I had the flu, And that was the only time that I wasn't like being like, oh my gosh, I shouldn't have made that face. I shouldn't have done that.

I shouldn't have It was the only time I wasn't obsessing. I was on and I watched it and I had the flu and I was like, this movie is wanted to watch. I wasn't that bad A hundred and three degree fever. Yeah, so so I totally get it. So lovely to meet you, Scott. Yes, and we'll hopefully yes, yes, all right, yeah, thanks so much to all of you. I had a good day. Yeah, all right. She was great. She's so smart. I like her heart, I love her and Mrs Doubtfire. I love Mrs Dolfire. She's so like

I just want to keep listening to her talk. You know. It was smart. She's smarter than the three of us, that's for sure. Not you, Scott, just the three of us. So Danielle spotted the clown pillow. I did not see it, but Danielle said she saw it. And I'll tell you the exact time code it was at. You nailed it down to the second, right, what's seen, what was happening. It's when Max came over, uh for the date, and he was talking to Roy the scene that we just

re enacted. He was literally the clown pillow was literally right behind Max. Minta. You should get all of the time codes for all of the clown Pillow appearances and see if there's some kind of pattern. Oh, we could start something right now. And well, we could start something when you get the info. You know, I actually texted Riley the last time code of the last episode to give me one second. Let me snutes that would be creepy clown Pillow. There's there's a weird, maybe magical configuration

about this. Maybe we could we could glean some secrets from the the creators of the show. Maybe we have to add up all the numbers and it comes to something. Well, we're gonna go crazy trying to figure it out. It's we're gonna yes, we're gonna just it's like a rube excuse. We've gotta figure it out now. Mind's on fire. I think there's no connection. It's just don't know until we get the numbers. We gotta get the numbers, and I gotta sit down late at nights and how many times

we have seven seasons to look for that clown. Okay, so we don't have to do it today or next week, but we gotta get all the time codes on when the clown Pillows appear, because there's something to this I'm telling you there's a secret that we could uncover that could be the whole clue to this thing moving forward. I will make sure to jot down every time code of the clown fellow. Good more work. Was there anything we missed in this episode? I feel like you and

Mark covered pretty much everything. There was one big one to what Suki and Jackson. Yeah, the love connection. That was a funny scene. Yeah, wasn't going to start. Wasn't that a great reaction on him and then his slow walk away? Have to re agrees to it? What that was brilliant? Great? I love them together. I love them together. And her what was she doing Ricky Martin? Oh yes, that's what she's That was justice with her little movements with her hands. Oh god, that's that. She is one

of the best physical comedians I've ever seen. I mean, just unbelievable. What show can she can make you laugh with a couple of different hand movements and a and a voice inflection. It's it's it's amazing. Um. Yeah, I think we pretty much covered the big moments. Yeah. I do like that we're seeing sort of some change in

Paris and Rory's relationship. But that was so harsh when Paris starts whispering it in the lunch room and you hear it and you feel it just like going across the tables and just like it was like a wave coming at you, like a tidal wave coming at you. Um. Yeah, I would say this is like the episode that you're kind of like, oh, I get why Paris is super mean, you know, like you get it. But but what's interesting to me about Paris is she knew she was facing

a stronger person in Rory. Rory who was trying to make friends with her and offer her friendship if you ever want to talk, And yet Paris continued continued to be mean and nasty, and I know it's going to take a while for her to break that down if she ever does. But it's like, it's it's kind of beyond beyond. It's like, yeah, when, when when do you stop blaming the mommy's divorce and then start realizing that

this is a truly disturbed individual. Totally wait. Fun fact fact that Paris's mother is played by Anne Gilles, who is also Kelly Taylor, Jenny Garth's mom on Beverly Hills nine O two one. Oh yep, I got that fun

back for you, leaving us into culture. But I mean, truly, you know, it's it's it's a real it's a real balancing act for Paris, because you start to she starts to soften, you start to understand, or you start to your heart goes out to her a little bit, and then yet she she comes back with the nastiness and you're like, wow, Okay, maybe it's not the parents. Maybe maybe she's just maybe they're divorcing because they want to

get away from her. I don't want to say the word that sometimes comes to mind with Paris what starts with a be Oh, She's just beautiful, beautiful child. There you go, that's it, Riley. Riley knows right, what do we got? Riley? All Right, I'm Riley and this is your pop culture for the episode. So first we have Rory. I'm Nancy Arrigan, Ora, I said, and I'm Tanya Harding. I'm going to do the whole shoelace coming, untied, nervous breakdown,

let me start again, act in everything. Nancy Karragan is a form of figure skater and actress who won a bronze medal at the World Championship in the Olympics. Nancy was attacked in nineteen by Shane stant who was allegedly hired by her rival skater Tanya Harding's ex husband. She has a movie about her called Tania, played by Margot Robbie. Remember the famous or the infamous Nancy Karragan video post knee bashing, Why Why? The whole thing was just a

hot mess, what a mess? And figure skating in figure skating, it was a hot, hot mess, the whole thing, Louise dumb girls, craves, smart men, it's the whole Marilyn Monroe Arthur Miller syndrome. So we've actually talked about this on the podcast. Before Marilyn Monroe married Arthur Miller on six the two were known to having a or lived relationship and people saw their marriage as a mismatch. Marylyn was a sex symbol and Arthur was an aloof intellectual who

had thick glasses and unfortunately lost his hair. He finally had to google him to see what he looked like, because we've talked about him so much. She's not unattractive. He was a large, balding, commanding genius um, a man of letters, and they both had something that they wanted from each other. He wanted her because it was I guess, you know, she was actually a remarkably talented person. Um. She was very good with comedy, She was very she was a really accomplished actress. Uh. And I think he

recognized it. I mean, she left Hollywood to move to New York to get involved with Lee Strassburg in the actor's studio, and that's where they met. And something kind of cute about him holding up a picture. He's kind of cute, and they you know, I think she was underestimated by the studios, and you know, she really wanted to be taken seriously as an actress. And and and I don't know what she nominated for anything, but did she ever win any Oscars or not? What she ever nominated?

Did she did? She was in a movie called I think Giant. Was that James Dean and maybe you know, maybe it was Clark Gable and Marilyn Monroe. I forget the name of the movie. But but I mean, really a very very skilled, uh and very intuitive actress. She really was. She could do anything. So I think, you know, obviously he was the leading intellectual in theater circles in New York at that time. Uh a much uh revered playwright. I mean he was Arthur Miller, for God's sake, a novelist,

Wasn't you know? He was a novelist as well. Um, death of a salesman, that's no, yeah, that's nothing to scoff that it's nothing to you know, my god, Riley, what what what came next? Rory says, well, it's not the Rick James incident, but Hugh Grant should be feeling pretty good about himself. Two good ones nailed it so. Rick James is an American singer, songwriter, and record producer.

His real name is James Ambrose Johnson, Jr. He started singing on the streets of Buffalo, New York at a young age, and James was arrested on charges of holding a twenty four year old female hostage for up to six days. Yikes. But Hugh Grant Hugh Grant is award winning English actor known for roles in films, television series and more. He studied English at Oxford University before pursuing acting.

Hugh Grant was caught with a lady of the evening named Divine Brown, and the incident got even more notoriety when he went onto The Tonight Show with Jay Leno and said, what the hell were you thinking? So that that was a real coup for Jay Leno. Some the most famous films include About a Boy Notting Hill, Love Actually, and Four Weddings in a Funeral. And he was known for his nonchalant touch of sarcasm. What was that show I just watched where I was certain Hugh Grant didn't

do it? But he did it. It was it was It was a guy Ritchie movie. No, this was the HBO show that was just on the undoing, the undoing. You've got to watch the undoing. He was a Chie movie, a wildly different character than he said. Yeah, you didn't. You barely even recognized him. I just ruined the ending of the undoing, so well, now I don't need to see it. So he saved me time. You're good, Laurel. I says like a normal hello, not a like a

here's Johnny kind of hello. So this catchphrase was made famous by Jack Nicholson in the film The Shining Jack Nicholson shouted here's Johnny at the burst through a bathroom door with a fireman's acts. This scene is known to be the most frightening scene in movie history, and the crew used sixty doors while filming this scene. Yeah, but where did it's referring to Ed McMahon and the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. You know that. Oh my god,

there's two. Here's Johnny. That's the original one. He's Johnny. Is the context of it? Yeah, that's Doc Severnsen and his orchestra. That are Which one were they referring to? What's the context of the quote? No, No, I think you're right, Riley. I think it was. I think it was maybe the Jack Nicholson one. But the original is Ed McMahon. But yeah, wait, read us the context that we can read us, a context and context oralized clote is like a normal hello, not like a here's Johnny

kind of. So I think Scott's right. Think yes, I think Scott's right. And we're not mad at you Riley for this, because we're not mad at We're not mad at you. But I think I think Scott is right that it's not a normal hello, it's a here Johnny. Yeah he was. He was paid millions of dollars per year to say, here's Johnny. Best sidekick in the history of television. Yeah, Riley, you do it. No, you don't know. That was mannk and Crazy do the Ed McMahon. Here's

Johnny not bad, here's Johnny. Oh my moving on, lorrel I says, while you're the new Heather. Heathers is in comedy teen film. The film portrays four teenage girls, three of whom are named Heather. Famous actors in the film include Shannon Dougherty, win An Own, a writer, and Christians. Later, they brought the Heathers back in two thousand eighteen. Yeah, I didn't do what It didn't work that the reboot. But that's okay because the o G. Heathers was solid.

Rory says Felix, referring to The Odd Couple. Felix is the main character portrayed by Tony Randall in the American sitcom TV series The Odd Couple. Felix had PTSD from his time as the Navy seal. The character is known to be a neurotic, obsessive, convulsive nut. In two thousand and fifteen, The Odd Couple was created as a reboot with Matthew Perry's Oscar and Thomas Lennon as Felix, based on the originals play Broadway smash hit that Neil Simon wrote.

And there was nobody, you know, Neil Simon is uh. All comedy writers even working today worship at the altar of Neil Simon. There was nobody that wrote whittier, funnier, more heartbreaking dialogue than Neil Simon, the king of comedy writers. Did knowledge Scott and Well, I mean I I performed

him in New York. I studied Neil Simon. Uh. I think he wrote The Out of Towners too, that film that wonderfully hysterically funny film with Jack Lemon, And I mean Neil Simon, Plaza Sweet, all these great great old movies, Walter Walter Math. Now, oh my God, doesn't get better. Neil Simon doesn't get better, Laurel I says, Look, I know it was bad, but this was a vicious hamster. This was like Damian Hamster. So Damien is referring to The Omen, a horror films starring Gregory Peck. There are

many incarnations of the Omen. The film's title was changed twice. It was first called The Antichrist and then The birth Mark. They thought production was cursed because of the spooky events that would happen while filming like plane accidents and dog attacks. You know what they they stole that stuff from The Exorcist, which had real issues after, during and after filming. You know, I'm an Exorcist guy, right, Damien came after Exorcists, so

I grew up. My first real movie scare was my mother allowed me to go see The Exorcist by myself with my friends in an afternoon matinee and we were green turned green with scared. The one so I was of the Poulter geis Friday the thirteenth era. But the one that really got me sideways recently, not that recently, but like to the point where I couldn't breathe almost how to leave the theater was saw Oh my God original song. Oh but yeah, the Exorcist was messed up

on her head spinning. Yeah. But a great film because it was really was a structured it was it was it was the scary. The reason it was so effective is because The Exorcist was based on a relationship between a mother and a daughter and a mother losing her daughter to the devil, and that was heartbreaking and it was scary to watch. So Ellen Burston had this you know, real Bravora performance in that watching her daughter turn into a someone who possessed what what a what a horrifying film?

My god. Anyway, it was grounded in Mommy Daughter. It was kind of like Yrmore girls crap out, So our next one was actually referred to in our scene reenactment. I'm sorry. Psycho was on earlier and it was just the first name that came to mind. So Psycho is in nineteen sixty psychological horror thriller film directed by ALFREDY Hitchcock. Alfred financed the film himself since Paramount was not into the project. There's an iconic shower scene with Janet Lee

and Psycho was remade in shot for shot. It was also Freddie him Mort played Norman Bates and the TV show Bates Motel, and this was a prequel to Psycho. Yeah, the original extraordinary black. I love them all, I love them all, I love bas Hotel. I didn't even mind the Vince von remake. I love it all. I love it on the Universal back Lot Tour total it's so good, so good. The guy runs after you with like a fake knife when you're on the tram. He ever for

Bates Motel, and it's always so scary. And you're like, I know he's not going to actually stab me, but you still freak out. I love it all. I love it. So the title of our episode, Paris Is Burning, is also a pop culture reference. So Paris Is Burning is a American documentary film based on the dragball culture in New York City. The film documents the origins of Vogueing It dance, inspired by model poses inside the covers of Vogue magazine. Can we play our game before we do

our favorite lines? Because I've been pretty pumped about this game the whole show, because I feel like I might I might, I might win. I have a chance. What's the game? We don't don't even Warren Scott. Let's just do it. Oh, I know what you're gonna do. Alphabet dog names whatever ye dog names? Alphabet disease dogs they were doing. I know Riley wants to do dog breeds, horns and rainbows, but we need to do what was

on Gilmore was diseases. I'm ready for disease. I think you'll go, So it'll go meet Scott, Danielle, Riley and back around arthritis, um arrhythmia. No, you have to be you have to do give you one more try ronchitis, yeah, crowns dementia e oh god, um oh no, how much time you go to me goes to me? And demetriosis? Um, I was prepping te stuff, stalling, stop buying time? Um out? Okay? So is it on me? Riley? Riley bs? I thought Daniel just did she she didn't get anything. You gotta

do it now? You inherited f s hard fever a fever? Dude sasease? What are you doing? Oh? Nice? Good? Save gastritis age? Riley? Riley? We got out? Okay? So this is a championship? Can I can I pinch it for Riley? Hunts disease? What's it? What did you say? Hunt? What disease? I think it's called Huntington's. It's not Hunts disease. And I'm the winner. I'm the champion. Cannot get it away

with Hunts disease. I'm looking up Rain. I think it's Huntington's Huntington's great game, though bad, I got my favorite line ready. Though normally I would do a funny line, but in this one, this is more emotional. I'm gonna try and deliver it. Well. Do you have any idea how many people you've hurt. Forget me and my mother. But what about Mr Medina? He likes you, Paris, he compliments you, He holds your papers up for everyone to see, and then you turn around and do something like this

to him. What is wrong with you? Forget it? I wouldn't expect you to understand. So good. Mine's also from Rory. Well, I take some dance lessons because the way you express yourself needs a little work. That was mine, You took mine? Yeah, Riley, um mineus from your favorite character of all time, Max and so loyal. Lie is describing her past men in her life and uh he says, oh, so you have a thing for pirates. Yeah. Um, I guess I have to do a new line now since Danielle took my line. Um,

I think it's got to be rare. He had some great moments on the stairs in the argument with her mother. What does she say about help me out here? I don't know, but I have one other sidebar one. Emily says kissing a teacher in a classroom on parents Day and Laurel I says, well, they wanted us to get more involved in school. Yeah, that's a good one, okay. Scott we have a little bit of exciting news for you. Tell me. Oh my god. And all I'm going to say is one word, what Rune r Max Perlack. Oh man.

The guy's genius. He's funny, he's funny. He was great on set. Guy. Oh, I can't wait. Yeah, run a couple episodes and I think three. I think Max. Yeah, that's a Max. That's so. Everybody watched Double Date. Watched Double Date. We'll do okay, everybody. That's it for uh, Paris is burning. Thanks everybody. This is Scott Patterson and this is the I Am All In Podcast, I Heeart Radio.

We will see you soon. Bye ja hey everybody, and don't forget follow us on Instagram at I Am all In Podcast and emailis at Gilmore at I heart radio dot com. Oh you Gilmore fans. If you're looking for the best cup of coffee in the world, go to my website for my company scott EP dot com, s c O T t y P dot com, scotty p dot com Grade one Specialty Coffee. Yeah.