Group Therapy Part 2

hop on the big motorcycle and rev that engine. Here we go the uh the Luke and laurel Iz with with Kim Kirk of Dallas, Texas. Kim, let me ask you a question. Yes, why don't people get out of their relationships first? And then if they've met someone? Great questions? Really interested? Yeah, great questions? Why do they have affairs?

Why do people have affairs? Why do they not disengage from their current relationship, whether there it's a committed relationship or a marriage, and then go and say, and you know, be upfront and say, I'm I'm leaving. I haven't done anything with this other person, but I'm going to and bye bye and let's split the assets and then they go off and do that. Why don't people do that? Uh, there's a lot of reasons. And I always think about that every time I watch one of those murder shows.

I'm like, divorce them. There there are a lot of reasons. Sometimes, you know, if you grew up maybe if you grew up in in divorce is just unacceptable. Yeah, that's that's one I can't. I can't, So I'll just have this little side action over here, I think. And I also think a lot of people are scared of what's gonna happen if I tell this person this is just not working for it. What they're scared of is a lot

of things. And you know, and again if we look at you know, if we go back into like attachment and we're looking at the parts of them that are scared. Is it my you know, thirty five year old part, or is it a ten year old part that when I tried to state how I felt got slammed. You know, all of these factors are in there. And you know, of course we can talk about finances that that could

definitely be an issue. But I've seen people, I've seen people you know, um, have affairs and knowing they're gonna get caught so that it can be ended and they don't have to you know, where you force the partner to kind of go, you know, I can be in this relationship. So true. Yeah, So, so there's a lot of factors in there. But I think people get really scared of am I responsible for this other person's feeling?

I don't want to hurt this other person. I don't. Yeah, there's there's a million and I think there's just so many reasons why somebody won't just be Honestum, it really is going to and I think your family of origin is going to have a big impact on it. You know. Some I've known people that you know where it's it's a completely unhealthy relationship, maybe not even safe. But we don't get divorced. We don't get divorced. And some people

are just gonna accept it. We don't get divorced, and I'm just gonna, you know, I'm just gonna have some fun over here or something. So here's a follow up. Since nobody does it that way, they do have the affair right, Some people do it right. Yeah, some people do. Okay, So that's the question do you in your experience, what is the percentage of people doing it right versus doing

it and having the affair? And what is this tendency for people um to moralize about it, like if you do it, this is the way you should do it, and nobody really does it that way because of all of the complications and considerations that you have just illuminated, Why do people feel the need to moralize about it and preached other people? You know that you did wrong and you're less of a human being because you did it, and because most of the people do with that? That's fascinating?

Is that? Ting? Is that? So are you asking me if if someone's having like some kind of marital issue, what is it with Like if I was to say, you know, how dare you do this? Okay? Yeah, what is this tendency? Yes in somebody I'm not saying you personally, but in people that are outside of the circle or outside of the situation just hearing about them that's a horrible thing to do. Again, you know again there from in one of the therapies that I work with is

called internal family systems. We literally talk about parts of me, parts of me doing that Sometimes that's a protective part of me. You know, that's so bad. That's so bad. I would never do that. I would never do that. So I'm, you know, to ensure my own safety. I'm gonna make sure that you know that everybody knows that's a horrible thing, you know, for my own protection, right right, I compared to why we're all like, oh, look at those vander Pump knows people, and we're all just judging him,

judging him, judging him. Look at that idiot. I can't believe he did this, and old blah blah, because it makes us feel better about ourselves, like, oh, it's not as big of a trend wreck as those. I wouldn't never do that. That's I'm always like, that's the kiss of death. I never say I would never do anything. I mean, there's a couple of things I know I'm not gonna do. But but but but it's it's a dangerous space to be, but it is a protective place

to be. Like you said, Amy, it can make you feel make you feel better, yeah, make you feel safer. Only only those kind of people do that. I think there's another thing too that Scott and Danielle and I were all talking about um, you know during the last couple of days. It is still also a TV show in like Danielle and I were talking earlier, like Harry, Right, Harry cheated on Aiden with Big now Morley, was that the right thing to do? No, but I loved it

because I wanted her to be with Big. So I remember watching it and being kind of thrilled about it because I and so I do think, like because there's a lot of people that are team Dean. Right, Well, if you're team Dean, then your team this guy who just cheated on his wife. Because I would argue this and I this might stir up a lot of drama, but like who's more wrong, Rory or Dean Dean? Rory's not married. Yeah, I know, yeah, but there you can still two things can be true, Like I can still

love it and like on a watch every set. So yeah, just ask you ask yourself and I we Amy and I talked about this earlier about how boring would Gilmore Girls be if everybody happened appropriately all of the time, there would be nothing to watch. Yeah, it's yeah, we have to, like you said, all the time, we have to have drama or there is nothing Oh okay, look at Laura lie together. Did you see that second episode where they kind of flirted and then they got together.

Now and they're dating, and but just think of all of the drama and moreover, the comedy that this incident at the end of season four will set up going forward. Yes, it is. It is the gold that a dramatist praise for. They can, they can, they can divine this, they can write this, they can come up with this. It's just like the perfect flawed characters and we're gonna forgive them because they're young, well and per usual. We love the

brilliant I think it's brilliant. It's brilliant trauma. Think you guys, you guys, everybody was tuning in for this, you know, for this episode. I mean obviously for the kiss, but the next one they're gonna want to know, Yeah, the kiss and then what's going on with with Rory. That's

exactly right, and that's what it's gonna bring up. So, like, you know, when you're like looking at something, let's say your Instagram, and there's one thousand nice comments and one mean one, and you're completely taken sideways by the mean one, Like you think you look beautiful. You look, you look beautiful, beautiful, your outfit sucks and you're fat, and that person is

undone by it, right, So same thing here. It's like, we there's so many good things in this episode, right, we haven't even talked to you yet about the kiss, which I do want to before you have to go, but we're completely undone by the drama, which is just the human nature too. You're like, you can't help but gravitate towards that. Yeah, well yeah, and then it's yeah, what you're just describing as the negativity bias and uh.

That's another theory that says that back in the earliest days of man, it was more important to know what was gonna kill you versus what you like. So you like, you said, you can have you can have a you know, an okay day, and then you know, okay day, and then someone pulled out in front of you and then all of a sudden, what are you telling your you know,

friend or your partner or whatever. You get home this jerk did this, and all right, go sideways John Gottman and I don't know if if you guys it's okay. It's as psychologist, but he works a lot in the marriage and divorce. He's one of the people that can like spot a divorce and by communication. But John John Gottman uses the negativity bias and a lot of his work,

so he's the one. If you've ever if you've ever heard this before, it takes like five positives to undo one negative a thousand positives exactly because it's sticks h negative is like velcro. Positive is kind of a tef line. Yeah, that's why, that's why, that's why we have to layer on the positives. You know, and you're talking about like with kids and stuff, you really want to catch them

when they're doing the right things. Well, that's probably why Rory's so undone because she's just gotten all this criticism from her mom, so she's going desperately to find the positive and calling Dean and then she's Lindsay answers, she's just undone. All right, enough about that trollop, Let's talk about the Let's talk about Luke. Okay, let's talk about Luke. Let's okay, two questions, Kim, are Luke and Laurel are well suited? And what took Luke so long? What's this problem?

Or is this another another example of safety. I want to say this, There there definitely there definitely is some aspects that makes them that can make them a really good couple. And they both come from trauma, and from what I can tell so far on the show, it's not resolved. So we are going to expect that there's

going to be some issues between these two. Loralai is guarded and she has a way of being guarded in the world, and she doesn't trust a lot of people, if you notice even in that you know, I think we talked on that other time we met, and she she loves the people in town, but she's not that super close to a lot of people, right. It's close to Suki and she's close to Luke, which is developed.

Luke it's guarded his world. It's like you said before, Scott, you said, it's pretty structured, and there's there's it's opening up a little bit if you're noticed, like he's taking care of Kirk, It's sisters in town and and and you know, Jess has probably opened up some things for him as well. But but there's still I see Luke

as being very protected too. He kind of steps forward a little bit and he's quick to move back if it didn't feel safe, So they both have that the difficulty in that relationship is it again, if we're not aware of our experience, we can keep kind of bumping into the same thing. We can we can re injure, we can have a lot of re injuries, we can injure each other protecting ourselves or what the poets referred

to as the repellent atoms of love, right something right? Um? Yeah, it is interesting and and it does mask a or ten to mask a very powerful attraction they have for one another, and which is palpable, which is undeniable, which neither of them can turn away from for very long. Um, would you say that Luke is because he's now you know,

prepared himself, sought some therapy through tapes in a book. Okay, do you think that he has any chance whatsoever to survive that experience if it goes And I know you've probably seen the rest of the seasons and you see what happens. But I mean, in the real world, if you take a real world couple that's a lot like this, and you don't know the outcome, you know, is Luke ever going to be accepted or fit into a Gilmore

dynasty at Gilmore family Laura Gilmore, Rory Gilmore. Yes, because remember you know she grew up to sixteen and this wealth and privilege, and she spent the next sixteen plus, however old. She is now in Stars Hollow and that is her home and that is where she's comfortable. So and I think in that environment he can fit in with with those gilmoresh what are you thinking? The only think he's in huge trouble when he walks into that mansion. I just think that's the place he's That water's too

deep for him. Yeah, it's it's a very And and again why I think he's safe at Laureliz's house is because she's tried really hard not to be like that, and she's really comfortable in there. But she also she can she can do the uh the other Gilmore's pretty well, but she doesn't want to live there. She doesn't. That's why I think they have a shot. And they do like each other. And again traumas aside, they do like

each other. They do have really good chemistry. There's stress there, there's streuss there, there's a connection there even in friendship. So there's there's a lot of things that I think could be working in their favor. How do you think they're similar? I see Laurelay is extremely tough. She's tough. Yeah, she's tough as nails like Lucas. But they also they show up very differently. They're tough as nails, but also

underneath that is really a lot as soft. Do you guys see that a lot of Laura liking when you see her hurt, it's big, it's big. And Luke I think Lucas soft. Yeah, Luke works really hard not to be hurt too. Yeah. You can see it, um with how he is with his sister, you know, for all the stuff. Yeah, absolutely with Yes, now he had to be kind of tough with Jess and then when he realized but now yeah, but I think he took him

in because he saw yeah. Yeah. Do you think do you think the way that and in general, when there's a sibling or a sister, a brother who is trying to take care of a sister who has obviously obvious addiction problems, and what that does to a family, and what that does to the heart of a brother who is not necessarily given up all hope but just has

accepted it. You're talking about accepted it as how she is now, and then how that's affected Luke, well, how it's affected his relationships with other people, and how it's like, you know, at one time they were close and now they're not and it's because she's you know, chasing the white dragon or yeah again, yeah Luke, if we don't, or how addiction affects families, Yeah, how addiction can destroy afamily, whether it's alcohol or whether it's drugs, and and so

that element is introduced into the Gilmore Show, and it's not really discussed for right now, but it's like it's part of it. Part it's part of what makes Luke Luke so my therapist brain when I you know, when we we have to assume with his sister Liz, uh, she got pregnant early too because she's the younger sister.

Rory and Jess are about the same age too, So we have to I have to look and say, well, you know, when Luke's mom died early and dad, his dad, you know, did did his best job that he could, but it you know, it affected them. Um, addiction. When we see addiction, addiction is trying to feel better. You know, I'm trying. I've got a wound here and I'm trying to feel better, and of course the addiction kind of

takes over. But I but if if his sister has addiction, then I'm almost looking at Luke like Luke's this is an okay word rigidity And like you said, there there's a lot of need of control there and he gets he gets um uncomfortable when change is presented, do you think su Yeah, that's that's the very definition of somebody who is that you know has such has has a self imposed really short leach to their own structured days, whereas there's no flexibility there really safety yeah, yeah, a

lot of safety. And how would you know? And if we're looking at Luke, how would he know? He lost his mom? I don't. I don't know what they I don't know exactly. They give the right age, but he lost his mom when he was young. We know that much. Dad had grief. You know, Dad probably did the best he could, but Dad lost his wife. Though Luke has his own trauma history and he keeps his head down, he does what he's supposed to do. He saves his money.

He has a very stable life, which I think is attractive to Laura la As well, but so there's a lot of things that could make them a really good couple, a lot that they like each other one but they but they're but there's those trauma pieces there that are going to bump into each other and they're going to respond in a way that's going to be protective. Whatever that looks like. Whatever that looks like. I think, Scott, you said, Luke, what did you say? He like runs away?

Is that his protection? He said, for you and Laura La Yeah, and Laura Lai makes some other choices when she's protecting herself, and they they they are they're protective, but they're not exactly going to be helpful to the relationship, right right, And I think he'd prefer to run away and suffering silence because that's what he's used to. That's

safety for him too. And yeah, that's why that part where Luke was consoling Laura Lee on that episode, you know, the sinking one, it was interesting that he was a safe person for her and that he was able to be kind of be that for her, Like there's enough trust in that relationship that you know, I don't know he would have done like if it would have been bad, bad or miss Patty, would you have been able to kind of, you know, console them in that way or

would you have been like kind of like, okay, can someone can get them? Maybe that has a lot to do with attention and the attraction that is palpable between these two characters because they are both so utterly damaged

and very you know, incredibly strong. They've built up this armor over years, and they're both perceive each other to be very strong, which is why they are repelling each other at the same time they're attracting each other because of the but are fear of, you know, making the wrong move and the chess match of the traumatized, armored, uh self protective people who just aren't you know, who are very risk averse when it comes to this kind of thing, especially Luke, and how how scary it must

be to to care about somebody that much, and the inherent loss that is built into every relationship when these two have tried very hard to never experience that again it's a normal natural feeling, but they really really are protected from that, so it's almost not work right. It's just you know, that's why we'll we'll see the sabotage because the wounds are not healed. They can be healed, but they're not healed. But but in order for them to be healed, there's gonna have to be some trust

to let someone get into that space. And there's you know, there's not trust right now. Yeah, traumatic magic, I mean, why a set up? Want to set up? I mean, it's just sparks flying the minute she walks down the street towards the diner, right, it's just like you know she's going there, and it's like the table fall I'll never get I love that. I love that seeing so much? Do I love so hard? But wait before you go, Kim, what do we think about Richard and Emily? And they're

sort of mess right now? Transitions? Yeah, well the good point, Scott, there's Peneling Lot Emily right now, Emily, right now, there's Peneling Lot. There's like you said, Digger, there is with Digger came a whole new way of doing business. So she's not needed anymore. And then it's like it's like she proceeds Richard moving on from her yea, not starting

a new business. Yeah, so she's not feeling very safe right now, and Richard is not you know, he's you know, seems to kind of be enjoying us, and then Richard has the fallout of Pinel and Lot, and then he has, you know, all these new interests. His mom died. I mean, I mean, I'm sure there's some other things in there too,

but these are not the most stable times. Char There's actually there's actually a moment coming in season five and I won't reveal I won't reveal it, but there's a moment coming in season five that I think is one of the most powerful moments in the entire series that literally I use on the regular basis when giving advice to friends. When it comes, I'll tell everybody, yeah, because

it resonated so majorly. So I do think, you know, there's there's some many people love season four the most, but I think there's some really good things in season

five coming that Aretty good. Yeah, that's like. But it's interesting because we're, you know, when you when we talk about all these transitions, though, we're you know, interdependent, so we feel we feel when other people are not regulated, and even if it's not spoken right now, there there is a level of instability throughout the Gilmour world, right

and Rory's feeling it. And I think that has a lot to do with with her decision making right now, although she's kind of hinted it, and even the kiss between Luke and lor Light is so big, but it's also so scary. What now, m Yeah, and even for the viewer, you're probably like, please don't look this be Maddie and Hoosy from Moonlighting. Remember when Maddy what was

Bruce Willis's character? It's like that was like, David, Yeah, I think so you want it to be Austin Rachel not you know, you want it to be to work out and interesting too. Sometimes I've seen shows where they finally get together and you're like boring. I kind of liked the chase. Since y'all brought up the kids, can I can I just share with y'all what I feel is a huge tragedy in this episode. Yeah, of course,

please do that. I have. It's hard for me to be objective about it, and I get really angry about it. Kirk's untreated night terrors and how they interrupted what I think was going to be a spectacular third kids be twitting, Luke and Laura live every time I get maddic. I mean that might have been a whole down right there on the port or Kirk yeah, because he's like, so you know, it's got the weird thing with the mom you can't break and Kim by the way, because Kirk

interrupted the the iconic TV kiss. I I crashed his uh hey bubba, I crashed his panel at the Toronto Comic Con on Sundays. But I kept my clothes on a little bit, just a little bit. But it was but it's like, you know, we're dealing with the Palladinos. They are going to do this right, that is and you and you never see it common, which is why

it's so beautiful. You just didn't expect it. And there they set it up, they put it in your face and then you forgot about it because the tension was so Yeah, but it was so wonderful and then there he goes It's like the gift that keeps on giving, showing Kim, thank you so much better. I'm better. I hope it's not too scattered. No, I feel good about going into season five, now, don't you, Scott? Well, I didn't feel better. No, I feel enlightened for sure, because

I feel like I understand more too. Yeah, I understand. There. I think I'm going into season five, more open minded of sort of everyone's where they're where they're at. Yeah, their baggage too, you know, like how their baggage is affecting who including Deans. We didn't even dig into Dean's baggage, but there's a lot. If this were a rock and roll tour going into these last three seasons, we would call it. You know, everyone's got a screw. When's the last time we saw it? It's been too long. I

think it was last year, did I? I think I just met with you last year? We talked about Paris and then I saw, oh, yes I got to be Yeah, you weren't here, but I got to meet with Danielle and Amy and Scott. I think was it the first season? Yeah, we got to do it. Yeah. I think we have to at least everything. I'm very very I'm very honored when you guys are fine, and it's very fun to be part of your little ball club. It really helpful

because you really do it really is. That's why I think therapy is so great, because it's like you do get that breath, that minute to go. Wait. I literally was I was like, I shouldn't make it a point with my my my personal therapis been a minute player in a product. But I do want to say just kind of I love all of y'all's insights. I do. Sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm gonna I want to write and just tell them I just thought that was fantastic, and then you know, I work, and then I so

you always can't. Yeah, but I really do. I love your I love your deep dive y'all have. Sometimes I'm like, oh, yes, and then sometimes I was like, oh yeah. People do love to compare rewatches, and we do do this one different where we're we're not analyzing the television show as much as the like we treat these people like they are real life. Yeah yeah, yeah, and Scott, maybe maybe you can to me if a show or a book is written by a human, it's got humanity and so

there's some real aspect to me on these shows. So no, no, absolutely, no question about there's no one, no one more real than Luke and lor like except for Carrie and Aiden. I am drink. I am watching the Instagram with pictures of Sarah Jessica Port Parker and John Corbett like they are a real life couple, and I am like Carrie and Aiden apparently look back together, and I'm just waiting to find out, like are they back together? Like literally following a guy look and I'm like, followed, did you

just make a deal with the Sarah jes Mark. No, I wish, I wish. I'm just obsessed with Sex in the City as much as I'm obsessed with Gilmore Girls. It's like that show is real life, Like that one is like that one. You're like, this is this is real?

But that one's like real real life. I was this is such a because this does happen, like with Luke, Luke and Laurel and like Rory and everybody where you're having a conversation with girlfriends and somebody's like, you know, I was thinking about Rory and you're just like they're literally talking about it like they're talking about their neighbor. Oh yeah, yeah. I wanted to say one other thing.

I'm sorry keeping you guys, but uh, this show. The show is so good because you can, like you guys thought all the time, you can watch it just as what it is. Oh, Luke and Laura Lee are kissing. M Rory did that right in Deep Dive because I was thinking, my best friend and I Sometimes I'll call her and she'll be like, I'm watching Gilmore Girls marathon on something. Which one are you watching? Oh? The one where they got together. And depending on the mood, we

either dive or we just let it become Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's really true. Kiman. Thank you for your right. Now. I'm I'm I'm a I'm a master's level, I'm a therapist, and we'll call you doctor and we'll call you I get in trouble if I say that, but um well, I um well, i'm a I'm a doctor. Somebody just tried to pull my license. But I yeah this one. Um. Thank you so much. If you're in the Dallas area, please look up Kim Kirk. She is amazing. If you've got any problems, you want to sit down and have

a conversation. We all believe in therapy. We all believe in sitting down with with somebody as compassionate and intelligent um as you, Kim. And so thank you so much again for your time. We're gonna have you back real so much appreciated and thanks you, honor, Thank you guys so much. It was so much. Thank you guys. Thanks all right, and next next Scott season five five. Yes, season five episode one. Uh, it's gonna be uh, it's gonna be quite a fan. It's gonna be nanny. We're

really looking forward to it anyway. Um, thanks everybody, Thanks for downloaded. Best absolute best fans on the planet reconfirmed again up in Toronto. You guys are amazing. Thank you for all your kind wishes and uh and lovely thoughts um and for downloading. We love you dearly, we miss you, and just keep one thing in mind. I am all in, Hey everybody, and don't forget follow us on Instagram at I Am all in podcast and email us at Gilmore

at iHeartRadio dot com. Oh you're Gilmore fans. If you're looking for the best cup of coffee in the world, go to my website for my company scott ep dot com, s C O T T wipe dot com, scottiep dot com, Grade one Specially Coffee h