I am all in.
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I am all in with Scott Patterson an iHeartRadio podcast.
Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I am all in podcast. iHeartRadio, R Heart Media, I Heart Podcast, one eleven Productions, one eleven Podcasts, one eleven Media. There's so many companies to name. Hi, Michelle, Welcome to the podcast. You're joined by the trepid crew of Daniel Romo, Terras, Dude, Amy Sugarman, Suzanne French.
And this is an episode of Point Counterpoint, with the topic being Christopher akak Stiffer and I'm here for it.
I like Christopher, say.
You guys, So Michelle, you tell how we connect. But I will say I didn't know until this very moment where she stood on the Christopher versus Xtiffer. So nobody write us and say I selected.
Well.
My brother in law grew up in southern LA and he's one of those people that just kind of knows everybody. And I asked him one day because I really wanted to get on the podcast. I said, do you happen to know somebody named Amy Sugarman? And he said, yeah, she was my sister's roommate in college. His sister is JJ Martin and then he said his friend was actually going to your house for around Thanksgiving.
So you guys, like, this is completely unbeknownst to me that Michelle just randomly lobbed out how did I get on this podcast?
And then her rando brother in law was like, well.
In fact, I actually know her.
Yeah, JJ Martin a shout out.
So, JJ Martin is a sorority sister of mine who has gone on to literally have this fancy, fancy, amazing designer clothing line and it's called Law Double J.
So shout out to our connection. Yeah.
Yeah, she's amazing. She lives in Italy and she's in Vogue all the time. I had no idea she was like such a celebrity.
Yeah, she's like a legit full baller. But that's not why we're here. Yeah, we're here to debate. Suzanne get ready got spired up Christopher versus xtaper.
Michelle, you have the floor.
I happened to really like Christopher. I feel like he is that high school sweetheart of Rory's. I love that they had the young love and that connection. I feel he's a better match for her in the middle of the seasons for rather than Luke. Although I do feel.
That for me?
For me, but I feel towards season six and season seventh at the end, after you know, she leaves Christopher, that Luke is the better match. But the only thing I don't really like about him is the way he was a father to to Rory, being absent in her life. But I feel like he really stepped it up. So I'm a fan. Scott.
Would you like to rebut first or would you like me to just ask my questions? Oh, Scott froze, which I think, Oh my god, Scott.
Okay, first, Okay, my question is how does an absent father for the entire life of a child have any redeeming qualities?
So was he actual absent? I mean, I think he bothered from a distance, but he wasn't completely out of our life. He still had a relationship with her. It just wasn't that, you know. He was more of the Disneyland dad, which I can relate to as well. Yeah. So, and I think he stepped it up once he got money.
Yeah, and he was sort of dipping his toe in. Okay, So here's our first question for you, and Suzanne's gathering her fixed to her thoughts to him. Do you think they have chemistry, because this was a big debate for us in the episode we just did. Do you think Lorelai and Christopher have chemistry?
I think they almost had like a brother sister chemistry going on like in season one in season two with the bickering and the little kid jokes and all of that, but I think it developed into a real world man. But in the end, she always wanted Luke deep down, which I don't necessarily agree with fully, but.
Yeah, yeah, they have.
Like you kind of alluded to this, they do have chemistry in that high school college ye way right, the way you kind of do with like your first boyfriend or your prom date. Like, they do have that, and it is I think Suzanne sort of alluded to this earlier this week when she said they revert back, and I do think that that is accurate, Like they really kind of go back to their younger days.
And I think, Okay, I'm gonna throw this out there.
When something major happens in your life, typically trauma, which you could just say a teen pregnancy is a bit traumatic, you can be frozen in that age. So they do go back to that sixteen year old age.
I think they'll always have that no matter what, like whether we like Christopher or we don't, you can't deny that they are bonded and had have a relationship.
And I'll never go away. I agree with you. I think he's cute.
Michelle, what do you think of David slash Christopher?
Just like physically, I think he's okay. I think Luke was much more handsome in the in the show, not just saying that because he's on here, but Christopher's not my type. I'll say that.
Wait, Susanne, you don't, You're not You don't think, Susanne wiyh in.
I don't want to put words in your mouth. You give it. What is your thought on Christopher.
The actor or the character?
The character, but the physicality of David Sutcliffe, Well, I think in a shocking turn here, I don't know.
I think Christopher always has kind of a weird grin on his face, and and he always, like when he's looking at Lorla, he gets this like really intense, like weird stare. And I don't so, I don't know if that's an acting thing or if that's just how he really is.
I don't know.
I'm I agree that they have like a friendship kind of chemistry. I don't feel like a lot of romantic kind of chemistry. I don't feel like Christopher is her soulmate at all. I think he's just the boyfriend that happened to get her pregnant in high school. And I do agree with what you were saying, Tara, that they because they that unexpected pregnancy did happen, Like that's always going to connect them. They're always going to have a bond for better or worse, They're always going to be
tied together in that way. But I think that they really go back to, you know, and like I said in the in the recap episode, they really are trying to recapture whatever it was that they had as teenagers. I don't think that they have really that much in common as adults in their current place in life. And they they you know, their banter, it goes back to kind of a junior high kind of feel and the clove cigarettes and.
Just ribbing each other kind of the way you do with your high school like boyfriend, the kind of like ribbing each other. Wait, so Scott, I have a question for you, but you need to take a deep breath before I ask it.
Oh, I've been exhaling.
Okay, is there so try try to remove yourself and being luke from this.
Is there anything redeeming?
No, I'm reacting as a fan as well. Okay, being objected?
Okay, fair?
Is there anything redeeming you can find in Christopher and possibly Christopher and lorealize relationship?
Sure?
Yeah?
I mean listen, if somebody is that big of a loser and they get their act together and they you know, they have a moral crisis, and they realize that the right thing to do is to come back into their daughter's life, I think that is redeeming. I don't know that it's one hundred percent redeeming, but that's a good quality to have. Okay. And now the fact that he has money, I think if you really love somebody, there's there's that part of love loving somebody that means you
let them go so that they can be happy. Like you had your shot. He had his shot, Yeah, and it was like he had thirty five years of his shot. Sorry, not so twenty years of it. Yeah, and it's like here she is in a relationship and she's happy with this guy.
So since we kicked Danielle out, Suzanne Tara and Michelle because Scott won't totally know. Don't you think finally in the movies, we really see that that ship has sailed with Christopher.
Oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean I think we see it in season seven, you know, when she finally does, you know, break it off and just seal that, you know, put it behind the cement wall and steel it off. Like I think they both realized, Okay, this wasn't meant to happen. It was just too forced. It wasn't smooth enough, it wasn't easy enough, it didn't flow. And I think that I think we saw that even in season seven.
Christopher looks so sad in the movies though, I mean he is not committing in relationships. He looked like he had just not been happy over the last ten years. So maybe he still wanted Laura Lai when he has that conversation with Rory in his office and when she starts questioning him why he wasn't around as much as he could have been, and he just seems sad. But Laura Lai seems really happy with Luke and she's where she's supposed to be.
I think when you have a child, it just changes the whole atmosphere. I mean, that's that's.
Your kid, and I'm talking about Rory or.
I'm talking about I'm talking about Rory. I'm talking about Yeah. And it's like it's better that somebody sees the light and steps up, as Michelle is talking about and makes an effort. But on the dad's side to his daughter to really get involved and almost a reckless way in her romantic life and to want to really have everything back one hundred percent, I think I think it's just selfish.
I think a better person would realize that, hey, I can be a great dad to my daughter Rory, be in her life and be a friend with Laurlai and be there when she needs me, and then I can tend to my own daughter, Gigi. I mean, it's like, what is this guy doing. He's like all over the place, He's a mess.
Is your thought like that he's finally rebuilding the relationship with Rory right, and this like intent, you know, feelings he has towards Loralai and continuing to try that is actually harming what he's repaired with Rory. And I don't want to put words in your mouth, but is that right?
I mean, it's like at a certain when you've had a twenty year shot and you've blown it, let's just repair one thing so that Rory can have her dad for the rest of her life or the rest of Christopher's life, natural life. And I think that's noble, and I think he I think the character lacks nobility, and that's that's really his tragic flaw. I think Luke possesses all of the nobility that one can possess in his kind of blue collarish way. So that's really all I'm
trying to say. I think I think it's great. I think he always steps too far right. He doesn't prioritize the relationship with his daughter, and he never did, and now he's not doing it again.
He's Yeah, to me, he's just like a teenager. He's just like a young soul that's just here trying to figure it out and has made a lot of mistakes along the way.
Right, this guy's never doing the right things in his teenage years.
Yeah, and he's just convinced that Lorelai is his true love, right, and he cannot let it go.
But don't you see so much growth with him and his parenting skills with Gigi? I mean he's a completely different father to Gigi than he was.
True, well, yeah, the only parent she has right now.
Mm hmm, yeah no.
But but I also don't I don't really agree because he didn't know how to control Gigi like she was a terror when she was giving her everything she wants. Yeah, so I don't even I don't think he tried. I mean maybe now where we're watching right now, we haven't seen Gigi, but maybe it's better. But I don't think that he was still parenting her the way a dad should have.
I think he was probably so overwhelmed with it. Wasn't he having a very contentious relationship with the baby mama?
Yeah she bailed him, Yeah, she bails and now she's off in parents.
And he and he's got a million, you know, entrepreneurial goals, and the potential revenue streams that he's trying to set up in half of them are fail doing. Okay, so he's all over the place, and he's not spending the time reading the books or talking to the psychologists, talking to pediatricians about parenting skills.
But now we think he's got always.
Seems to be the last priority for him, because he's such a mess, right.
I do see your point, Michelle. I think he did develop a sense of responsibility more than he's ever had. And I think he also developed sort of an appreciation for what Loralai had been going through all those years that he was flitting around California and kind of, you know, understood what she went through at a much younger age
than when he was going through it. But at the same time, he is, like you were just saying, Scott, the parenting is still a lower priority, like the he's always taking mom's house or like we don't see her that often because she's with his mom, and and you know, that's a whole other thing about how his parents or his mom likes Gigi but never liked Rory.
Like that's a whole different look. With Christopher. There's remorse, there's consciousness of guilt, and there's an attempt to step up. Yeah, the problem is is he's just so bad at it and he's always screwing it up, and something in his life is always sabotaging even his own efforts. And then he comes off on the other hand, like you know, Dirk Diggler, and here he comes in for the you know,
the big romantic stuff and take me seriously. And it's like, how supposed to take this guy seriously as a character when he can't even get the little stuff right with his own daughter, their daughter, and now we're supposed to sort of respect him as a man who's good enough for Laura. It's a it's a hard leak to.
Make, but I have to give Christopher some whatever the term is.
Great. Of course, his dad was horrible.
He has one of the meanest dads.
My dad was, but you guys see him. Hang on a second, how old is christ How old is Christopher right now?
He's a thirty five?
Yeah, okay, you can't. You can't whine about your daddy.
Yeah you can, because his.
Dad is well after twenty five, you can.
That's not a rule.
Is a rule.
There's plenty of people in therapy, therapy at fifty talking about their parents.
Fine, but they don't sit around and let it sabotage their lives and they don't.
Well, what I'm asking you, guys, is, don't I mean.
We saw that episode where Christopher's dad was so.
Horrible terrible?
Yeah, so don't I mean, like, I don't blame you feel like.
He's turned out better than he could have sunlight. I don't know, Michelle, what are your final thoughts on it?
Well, you guys have kind of swayed my opinions a little bit.
I don't. I don't. I don't like, I don't like. I don't like fathers that abandon their kids. There's no excuse for it. I do not. I detest people like that, moms that abandon their kids, dads abandon their kids. It really should.
Definitely dislike Sherry because it's the saale Gigi completely.
Doesn't mean that Christopher has to run around screwing up everybody's lives at the right. Yeah, doesn't. That's no excuse.
Yeah, Like, my husband was a teenage parent, you know, and so he was seventeen with a baby and involved in her life in.
Every possible way, fantastical.
So being young is not an excuse.
It is not an excuse. It's still yeah, it's an absolutely yes, it is a choice. You wake up in the morning and you make a choice.
I do think that he wanted to make that choice, and Laurel I rejected that choice for him. So I'm not saying he shouldn't have wrong.
Well, no, she did.
She definitely did there's courts. No, he could have he could have been present in Rory's life through the courts. He could have fought for his own daughter to be in her life, and he chose not to. He chose to go away because he's a weak person, well, who is always looking for an excuse and a way out.
There's there's several instances of various evidence throughout the show that that was a choice that he made to stay away. Not Laura, I if you in the episode, well, the episode where he comes back to town first of all, and then the episode where uh oh, when Rory has the debutante ball and she's trying to get Christopher to
come back. It's they the dialogue, they make it very clear that it was Christopher's choice to stay away, and they she tells Rory, Oh, he's one hundred percent for sure going to be there, and then Rory's like, oh, so there's a fifty to fifty chance, Like it's clear that it's he's like the deadbeat.
Well, I don't, I don't sure. I don't know.
Part of me though, knows that in some way, I do think he was sort of honoring and everybody can yell at me, what Laura Lai wanted Laura la He wanted to marry her. He was going to move in with the Gilmours and work for the you know, either Richard or his dad, and he wanted to be he was going to marry Lorlai and she said, no.
La, it's not Laureli's decision to make on how often he can see his own daughter. He didn't do anything so horrible, right, What what did he do that was so horrible? He wasn't abusive to either one of them. We would have gotten that door in the backstory thus far. He was just a flake and he didn't he didn't fight for his own daughter, He didn't fight for his own family.
Characters a little bit more benefit of the doubt than maybe others. And that's okay, I'm giving him a little bit of So you're.
Saying as as a teenager and as a guy in his twenties, and how many times he tried to come back to Rory's life. Every single time Rory convinced him that you're please stay away. The best, the best thing you can do is stay away because you're so weak, and he goes, yeah, you're right, I am, so I'm not saying that find myself. Well, that's basically what you're saying. He never stepped up and fought for his own daughter.
I agree with that.
You you these kinds of people deserve zero respect in my book.
Well, I also think it comes back.
Even if they're on television, it comes back, and they have great haircuts, and they wear nice clothes and they smile real nice.
It kind of comes back, lying, Yeah, it kind of comes back to right now, how like Christopher will do anything Laurel I says, like we literally talked about this in the episode we just recapped, and yeah, puppy dog and so like it actually checks out because he's consistent, Like he's consistently done whatever she is.
That's a good point talk, you know, like stay away from what she suggests, stay.
Away from me and Rory. Okay, I will come around for her birthday. Okay, I will if you want to pay for school, okay. You know, like he's just he's just a yes man for whatever Laura I wants. Because I think in the end, he wants Laura I, and so he'll do whatever she wants.
Yeah, yeah, I think.
For him, Laurel I has always been more of a priority than Rory.
Yes, yeah, I agree with that. I don't know if we solved the mystery of christ.
It's not a mystery, it's it's it's the least complicated thing in the world. He's just a deadbeat, That's all there is to it.
I respectfully disagree.
I don't find him to be what I would classify as that, but I understand your passion for disliking him.
Oy, I stand by your kids. Man, I don't care who you are. I don't care.
So Michelle are you?
Are you glad you joined us as.
A little starstruck at first? When I sat, Scott thought that I calmed down, But it wasn't.
Tara, Suzanne and me rude.
You guys are amazing.
Okay, so wait, obviously, if we were gonna ask you, Christopher, Digger, Maxi, Madie Rune, who else?
Who is your favorite? Who's your number two?
I think she had a lot of chemistry with Digger with dinner. Yeah okay, yeah, she really did. But I think you know, he was just in her life for a season. Ultimately she should be with Luke.
He had a ch living room, he really did, and beautiful breakfast spreads. But remember the brief relationship with the coffee guy. I could have had him stick around, you know, Twilight.
Yeah, yeah, he's on Fire Country or Fire County or whatever that show is now.
Yeah, Bello, Bella's dad. Yeah, with runs with him. Yeah, I can't think of his name.
Yeah, he's fantastic, fantastic.
Hold on, I'm looking it up.
Charlie.
Billy Burke, Billy Burke.
Yeh, Billy Burks a great, great musician.
Great, great, Well, Michelle, you get the final thoughts to end this episode.
What is your favorite thing about Gilmore Girls.
It just gives me this really nostalgic feeling, small town charm. I watch it every single day. It just is soothing to me. It makes me. My husband laughs because I laugh every time like it's a new new to me. But my favorite thing about it is probably just all the quick, quirky one liners. I just love all of them.
And I'm amazing. Isn't it amazing about this show, Michelle? About all these great one liners. It's it's it's the funny show. It's just so funny. It is so many.
Yeah, every time I rewatch it, I see something I haven't seen.
Before, right right, right, exactly. It's brilliant. It's just brilliant that way. It really is.
Well, even though we fought you, we're glad you're here.
Thank you, so excited to be on.
Thanks Michelle for coming on and appreciate sharing our thoughts.
I'm sorry for stalking you, Amy, Please I enjoy it.
Look, apologies for being such wallflowers. We are very, very very hesitant to share our opinions. As you can what was on display? Come back anytime and you'll probably change your phone number after this and wait.
Maybe from Michelle you could deliver the uh you know that I am all in mine?
What is that in line?
What was out the episode with our line I am all in? I bet you'd like to hear you say it.
What do you mean the outro?
Yeah, say I am all in?
You want me to say that to Michelle right now?
Yeah?
I think she would like to hear it.
And remember Michelle always I am all in? Or should I say it like Luke said?
Yeah?
Give it to us like Luke? Sure?
What am I trained? Seal here? Give me another fish and I'll do anything. Michelle, thanks for coming on, much appreciated. We'll just see everybody next time. Thank you and trepid Crewe, Susan.
Everybody's left us, but but.
Uren, Everybody's gone all right. Thank you so much, Michelle, You're great bear with us and sharing your thoughts on this particular episode. And best fans on the planet, keep downloading, keep sending us your cards and letters. Really appreciate you. Love your best fans will planet our and remember we and I am all In stay, save everyone, Hey everybody, and don't forget. Follow us on Instagram at I Am all In podcast and email us at Gilmore at iHeartRadio dot com.