Hi. Is this is this Tanner?
It's about time. You're late.
Well, I clicked you didn't exactly send a Zoom didn't exactly send a link.
And what do you mean I emailed you the link?
Well, you emailed me a photo.
It was a screenshot.
But it wasn't a, I mean, that wasn't a screenshot.
It was a shot I took of my screen.
I mean, it looked like a cell phone picture of a computer screen.
Well, that's the way I would send it. You know, I take a photo of my screen and email it through my phone. It's called cybersecurity.
Okay. I just I I didn't mean to be late. I just I had to type in the code to join the meeting and that the code is like 30 letters long. So it just took a minute. I don't think
you've never done a Zoom meeting before.
No. I mean, I've done I've done plenty of Zoom meetings. It's just But
how do you have a tech podcast and you've never done a Zoom meeting?
No. I've done I mean, I've done plenty of Zoom meetings. I just usually, there's, like, a link to click. So, anyway, I'm sorry. I this is not I'll I'll cut this part out. But anyway, thank you, for for joining. And do you mind if I I give a little background, just No.
That's that's fine. The more information on the record, the better actually.
Okay. So, yeah, so I've been working on, an idea for for a new site. And last week, I kinda just put it out into the world. If you're listening to this, you know, the last episode was about the the new htmxlabs.com, which my plan is basically just to build it in public. And one of the first things I did was put up a site, online just with a kind of simple suggestion box, for people to be able to, you know, help me sort of grow help the site kind of grow into what people want it to be, and so I could take those suggestions.
So I I won't get into it fully, but, you know, these are just sort of suggestions in the hypermedia world. And I'll just say I got a lot of, really great messages. Some were really useful suggestions, but some were just kind of encouragement, which I really appreciated. And, and one of those messages you'll recognize, Tanner, was someone who, you know, wrote up wrote in and just wanted to talk on the podcast, and talk to me about, you know, an opportunity, that HTMX Labs unlocks. So I I'm pretty excited to hear about that.
So, anyway, Tanner, thank you for joining. Welcome to the show. Your message was, like, a little bit cryptic, but I'd love to talk about opportunities. What kind of things were you were you thinking?
Hey, let's establish a few things for the record.
Okay. Yeah. Sounds good.
So now, your name is Lazarus Morrison. Confirm or deny?
Yeah. Yes. I usually go by Lazarus. You know, it's I don't do them really
Confirm or deny?
Confirm, I guess.
K. And you are the sole proprietor of htmxlabs.com. Confirm or deny?
Yeah. I mean, confirm. It's just me.
And confirm or deny that you are not, nor have ever been a partner, client, representative, or agent of Big Sky Software, LLC.
Big Sky, you mean the people who made HTMX? I mean, confirm, I I'm not part of
And also please confirm or deny that you have never been authorized, endorsed, engaged, or otherwise hired.
Wait, I'm sorry. Let me, what do you, what do you, why are you asking sort of questions about you
are under oath?
I'm not under oath. What are you on the record?
This is all on the record.
I mean, I'm recording it for the podcast. It's not we're not on record. I I just I'm sorry. I just I don't I don't really understand what the questions are. I'll get to that. Talking about opportunity?
I need before we get to that, I need to establish a few basic facts.
I mean, that's fine. We can make it quick. You know, I mean, just maybe nothing that's gonna get my identity stolen would be nice. If that makes sense.
Deny. You are the sole proprietor of the x account at htmxlabs.
Confirm.
You are the sole proprietor of the YouTube channel htmxlabs.
Confirm.
Yeah. You are the sole proprietor of the website, htmxlabs.com.
Confirm.
Well, that's all I need. Thanks.
I'm sorry. What what's, what's going on exactly? I I just thought I thought you had an opportunity to talk about here. I don't you you know is this a question about who I am? Are you making sure you're in the right place?
Oh, I I'm pretty sure I'm in the right place. I knew you'd fall for this. And on behalf of myself and the other 1,068 CEOs of HTMX as documented documented and enshrined on the official registry held at htmx.ce0. Thank you. Under the statutes, ordinances, regulations, and rules of the state of Delaware, I hereby serve you virtually with a cease and desist order.
What? A cease and desist order for what?
All of it, I guess. Everything. YouTube, Twitter, the website, the podcast, cease and desist, effective immediately and in perpetuity.
I'm sorry. On on okay. There's no such thing, first of all, as a virtual cease and desist. Even if I'm sorry. Okay. I'm just trying to figure out what you're talking about. What would give what gives you the right to send me a cease and desist on anything?
Well, let me ask you a question. Have you ever heard of open source software? Okay. Of course. Confirm or deny?
Confirm. I've heard of open source software.
Well, open source doesn't mean you can just steal and use the trademarks of private companies. It's an invitation for theft and you can't profit off of other people's work. So, we CEOs of HTMX can't stand by and watch you using the name HTMX to profit off of our work.
First of all, I'm not profiting off anything. You can I mean, you can profit from open source stuff anyway, but I'm not doing it anyway?
You know, when you're I think beyond that, by appropriating the name, you violated our first amendment rights as a corporation.
Your first amendment rights as a corporation?
And
I I really don't understand that.
Well, when you speak as HTMX Labs, everyone assumes this is an official, that it comes it's an official communication that it comes from us, that you're representing the trademark of HTMX. So you can see a confusion in trademark law and in the marketplace.
When you say it comes from us, you're talking about you are from HTMX. I mean, you can't be you can't be serious.
Well, we're all from HTMX.
All like this.
I I I'm gonna let you know, this is very serious. The CEOs, including myself, have been waiting to take action until you made a move egregious enough to warrant it. This creation of the new site blatantly assuming the HTMLX name was really the final straw. And as members of the open source community, we have a duty to put forward this action against you and your team.
There's no team, first of all.
Confirmed. You acted alone and are solely responsible.
I mean, I didn't I didn't act on anything. The the this is a crazy idea. And if you're gonna contact me about this, you can just you could have just emailed me and let me know something was going on. I mean, you can't you can't sue me over just trying to have an HTMLX informational page. Does does Carson Gross know about this? Are you doing this on behalf of Big Sky?
Well, I don't wanna give the give, that kind of impression. Mister Gross isn't involved. But as a fellow CEO, I'm sure he'd agree with me defending his rights and the rights of all other CEOs of HD.
I mean, I happen to be one of the CEOs. If you want account, you know, signing up on the website with, like, a 600 or a1000, whatever it is, other people. I'm one of those CEOs. I mean, I don't agree with this.
You may claim that, but we're unanimous in this, and I have the full support and backing of, all the other CEOs of HTMX.
You know, I got I got I got some some stuff in the suggestion box, and it was all very nice. And I thought, you know, I was excited about this meeting, talking to you about some opportunity with HTMX. And Well, it is the
opportunity for me and for the other CEOs.
Look, I mean, I just heard about this. Okay? So, you know, you you're coming with some information, and I think you're wrong, actually, about most of this stuff. But I I need
to think That turns out to the quote, so So
I mean, what are you what are you trying to get out of this? I mean, you just wanna, like, cease and desist? What does that mean? You just wanna shut down the HTMLX page? Did might you just wanna shut down my stuff? Well,
that's one way it could go. I mean, we could do this the hard way or the easy way. You could shut down the site or we could go a different way.
Listen, That's not gonna that's never gonna happen. Okay? I mean, I think this is frankly, I think it's bullshit. I'm not taking the site down. HTMX Labs, you know, I I I have been in good faith just kind of using h t m x because it's a technology.
So h t m x labs is just h t m x is the tech like HTML, like JavaScript, you know. It's I'm HTMLabs is something that I'm building, and that's here to stay. And that's my Twitter handle, and I've kind of I've been happy kind of growing with that. That's my YouTube channel. It's here to stay. Okay? You understand?
So, I don't know if you caught that, but what we CEOs are looking for is that, we're we're looking for you to sign an agreement to surrender 8% of the profit in perpetuity if you plan to continue to use
8% of the profit. Okay. So so let me guess, you've been inspired by You think you're defending open source and you think you can just take 8% of my First of all, there's no profit. 8%. That's a funny number. How'd you come up with that?
It's in the zeitgeist.
Okay. So you think you this is like this is some WordPress situation, and and you think, you know, you're acting on behalf of HTMX here, I guess? You think you are?
Well, those are your words, not mine.
So who gets the 8%? Who gets the 8% of the profit? To you? To who?
To me and all the other CEOs.
So the I'm sorry. So that you are filing something that you're going to take the profit and give it to the other CEOs. I mean, if there was ever any profit, maybe someday there will be, but there's no way I'm signing over any percentage of it and definitely not to you. I mean, this you you call me talking about something else, and you expect me to just sign over my future stuff to you because of something you're saying on on a call with nothing. You you have nothing else here.
I think it's actually ridiculous.
So I I can tell you're very passionate about this project. So, I I kinda see a young myself in you. So I'm gonna throw something else out there. Why don't you give me $65100 and keep the site?
What?
In the YouTube and in the ads. I'm I'm not a monster.
I'm not giving you a goddamn penny.
$22100 and change the name.
No. No. I'm not No. I don't I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying here. Is that you're not getting anything from me, and I might I was not gonna post this after you came on and kind of changed what this call is about, but I might post it now just so people can see the kind of business that you're running, you're trying to run.
Okay. Give me $1600 and give my nephew, Andrew, an internship.
What the fuck?
He's he's trying to get into Vassar.
Okay. Alright. Is that your
name of the site.
Is is that your real picture up there? Is this your this looks like an AI. So how come you are not on camera right now? I thought this was gonna be I thought you were gonna do a call. This was your Zoom setup. You don't have a you don't have a camera working on your on your computer? Is this what you look like, Tanner?
More or less like this. I I have a much weaker I mean, this is day. Otherwise.
This is this is never gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. I'm not changing name of the site. HTML. I'm not gonna change the name of the site.
You'll give me $1100 and you'll change the name of the site.
I think I am gonna post this.
Look, you you don't have the money to defend yourself. I've already won. You've passed the 90 day grace period.
What grace period? Grace period for what?
It's like, it's nothing. It's it's a domain thing. You know? Legally, you have 90 days from the date of purchase to abandon the site, but I'm sure that's passed.
Look. I don't I don't wanna contact my lawyer, but you should know that I do have a lawyer if I need one.
Which one? What's their name? I I know I know pretty much every lawyer licensed in Massachusetts.
I'm not telling you who my lawyer is. And listen, I don't think we need to keep talking about this. Just I want you to make sure you hear me. I'm not changing the name. This is a matter of principle. I don't wanna be bullied by somebody. You're not even from h you you have no connection to any real HTML. This is you're not from Big Sky.
I'm gonna tell you this one time.
I'm not changing.
You're you're gonna change the name. You're gonna give me between $6800, minimum of $500, at least $500, or my lawyers will forward you the terms within the hour. Good day.
I'm gonna post this. I want people to see okay.